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 sticky  Author  Topic: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 50878 times)
Klatunictobarata
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1140 on: Sep 11th, 2009, 8:38pm »

on Sep 11th, 2009, 4:36pm, tomi01uk wrote:
It doesn't matter what I believe. I believe you and the others are correct when you say that something as "singular" as the drones saga, should be treated and regarded as just that.
Facts about this event show it to be engineered. Call it a hoax, call it a disinfo campaign, everyone's perspective is different. But it should not be promoted as a real ufo case until proven to have some basis in established factual tie-in to anything "extraterrestrial".

And for the umptenth time, I'm not letting myself believe or become fixed into any belief system with these drones. That was my stand as I left DRT. Every aspect to solving this case must be explored and if I believed anything it would restrict my thinking about possibilities regarding solving the who and why.

However, I, just like everyone else here, has our own perceptions about aspects of this case. What is beneficial, are the reasonable arguments that help refine those perceptions. Not insults ..



OK tomi, no straw man stuff for me...nor insults.

As a Drone observer and armchair CARET researcher since I saw the C2C photos on the day they were first posted, I have noticed that you consistently pop up on various sites and forums when certain contributors keep reminding the readership that this whole Isaac/Caret/LAP saga has been judged to be a HOAX.

You then enter the discussion(s) to more or less say that not everyone believes that itís all a hoax-thingy and the hoax believers cannot speak for everyone. OK, I got it.

Just one plain question with no hidden motives except for the truth, OK?

Since your motivation appears to be exceptionally driven, your beliefs must have been affected by something perhaps others here donít know. And you have a background with the DRT, P.I.s, and other early Drone truthers.

So I now ask:

Do you, tomi, have any special, confidential, or inside knowledge, evidence, observations, or significant facts about this entire affair that is not readily available to the entire drone research community?

Putting it simply: Do you know something we donít?

Iím not asking you to break confidences or laws here, I just want to know IF you do or donít.

Is that too much to ask?
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1141 on: Sep 11th, 2009, 8:41pm »

on Sep 11th, 2009, 4:15pm, tomi01uk wrote:
I'm not for being insulted by Mur, that's for sure.


Sorry, did not intend for you to be insulted, just calling it as I see it....an opinion.

I just find it odd that integrity is used to further obscure truth.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1142 on: Sep 11th, 2009, 9:20pm »

on Sep 11th, 2009, 4:36pm, tomi01uk wrote:
It doesn't matter what I believe. I believe you and the others are correct when you say that something as "singular" as the drones saga, should be treated and regarded as just that.
Facts about this event show it to be engineered. Call it a hoax, call it a disinfo campaign, everyone's perspective is different. But it should not be promoted as a real ufo case until proven to have some basis in established factual tie-in to anything "extraterrestrial".

And for the umptenth time, I'm not letting myself believe or become fixed into any belief system with these drones. That was my stand as I left DRT. Every aspect to solving this case must be explored and if I believed anything it would restrict my thinking about possibilities regarding solving the who and why.

However, I, just like everyone else here, has our own perceptions about aspects of this case. What is beneficial, are the reasonable arguments that help refine those perceptions. Not insults ..



OK, noted and logged. You have my permission to throw this quoted post in my face in the future if I ever forget what you stated. wink

I have a few ideas that could possibly lead to a conclusion to the 'who and why' though I do not have the ability or the resources to pursue such a course.

One idea would be to forget about the photo witnesses. They are history. I would focus on the none photo witnesses. For instance Brent, from Camas, Washington. As I am positive that the drones are a hoax, partly because the photo witnesses were anonymous, deceptive and unwilling to help the investigation in any way shape or form, I must then conclude that the identified witnesses that came forward with drone tales but no photos are either one of two things:

A) Liars that only wanted attention.

or

B) Are in on the hoax and came forward in an attempt to add authenticity to the case.

Brent could be Chad for all we know. His friend Tim could be Raj. Anyone that has claimed to see a drone should get the serious third degree interrogation. Perhaps an offer of money to confess or supply info as to who the orchestrator and financier are.

I have a sneaking suspicion that those behind this hoax are very prominent in the field of Ufology. I won't name names without evidence but if I am correct, the source of the drone hoax would almost unfold into a Ufology conspiracy, designed to attract new fans who will believe whatever they see (or hear) on the internet.

The answers lay with the identified non photo drone witnesses. They offered their claims for some reason and I don't think it is because the drones are real.

Crazy idea? Maybe, maybe not!
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1143 on: Sep 11th, 2009, 10:23pm »

OK, this is getting a bit embarrassing. Tomi is having a hard time letting go because of the years of hard work on something that was not easy. Over 20,000 posts on OMF and over 20,000 posts here. She is obviously intelligent, honorable, hard working and lucky for us, patient. SHE has done the hard yards so it makes it much more difficult to admit failure, a hoax, especially on a public forum. She'll come around. It's time to throw the Einstein factor in here with todays quote......"The Bigotry Of The Nonbeliever Is For Me Nearly As Funny As The Bigotry Of The Believer". That guy had the grip, let's get one too.....
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1144 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 01:38am »

on Sep 11th, 2009, 8:38pm, Klatunictobarata wrote:
As a Drone observer and armchair CARET researcher since I saw the C2C photos on the day they were first posted, I have noticed that you consistently pop up on various sites and forums when certain contributors keep reminding the readership that this whole Isaac/Caret/LAP saga has been judged to be a HOAX.



I don't monitor half the forums everyone else does.. And I'm usually late in seeing what has been written on some of them.. so I'm not quite as ardent at keeping up as others here are.....

Quote:
You then enter the discussion(s) to more or less say that not everyone believes that itís all a hoax-thingy and the hoax believers cannot speak for everyone. OK, I got it.



NO... I say what I'm thinking, not anyone else. (mostly)

Quote:
Just one plain question with no hidden motives except for the truth, OK?

Since your motivation appears to be exceptionally driven, your beliefs must have been affected by something perhaps others here donít know. And you have a background with the DRT, P.I.s, and other early Drone truthers.



My motivation and investment has been to get to the bottom of this thing. I've not created forums, blogs, graphs, PDF's, studies, 3D or actual models.. I've not monitored every ufo forum out there nor stepped over, stood upon or stabbed others to this end.. in fact, in view of everyone's conduct that I can see... I'm less motivated than what even I see here smiley

Quote:
So I now ask:

Do you, tomi, have any special, confidential, or inside knowledge, evidence, observations, or significant facts about this entire affair that is not readily available to the entire drone research community?



The key word here is significant. No, unfortunately there is no significant data or insight that I know of. I don't think anyone has been able to turn the corner in this case yet. But the fact remains, I'm out of the DRT and out of the loop. I'm using my observations to make that judgement. Would 11th be doing the study he is, if things were otherwise?
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2009, 01:57am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1145 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 02:17am »

on Sep 11th, 2009, 8:38pm, Klatunictobarata wrote:
Putting it simply: Do you know something we donít?

Iím not asking you to break confidences or laws here, I just want to know IF you do or donít.

Is that too much to ask?


This is the sad part for me and probably the reason why this whole thing has gone so pear shapped. I know that there was a great deal of sophistication in how this drone saga was deployed. Now, where do we go from here? And the problem is you can't get there from here unless you look at it with unbiased unfethered eyes.

Biased is a two way street. In this case a 4 way street it seems... rolleyes Or even a roundabout.. Everyone has a different opinion.

The deployment was a slick confidence job. The researchers, investigators, they fathom this case from their own eyes.

I propose, and I've been thinking this for a while, a think tank.
Maybe this will even allow for some coordinated efforts here that we can pass on to the PI's.

Maybe ideas generated here can help solve this case instead of always disparaging it.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1146 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 02:47am »

on Sep 11th, 2009, 9:20pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
I have a few ideas that could possibly lead to a conclusion to the 'who and why' though I do not have the ability or the resources to pursue such a course.



You have as much as any of us.
Everyone will use anything that helps solve this.

Quote:
One idea would be to forget about the photo witnesses. They are history. I would focus on the none photo witnesses. For instance Brent, from Camas, Washington. As I am positive that the drones are a hoax, partly because the photo witnesses were anonymous, deceptive and unwilling to help the investigation in any way shape or form, I must then conclude that the identified witnesses that came forward with drone tales but no photos are either one of two things:

A) Liars that only wanted attention.

or

B) Are in on the hoax and came forward in an attempt to add authenticity to the case.



Right, well establishing their motivation is the first course of events here. I think this idea is a good start, but I'm afraid it is unlikely to bear fruit. The reason is that the non-photo witnesses who came forward have been vetted by the PI's.
Were they recruited by this "machine" that deployed the drone saga to add to this? I don't think so personally. But the PI's have good instincts and experience and some in the DRT spent time speaking to these witnesses, I think everyone would have smelled a bigger picture here by now if they were recruited. I think their homeyness is an indication that they jumped on the band wagon, believing what they saw or else they wanted to take the p*ss. JMO

Quote:
Perhaps an offer of money to confess or supply info as to who the orchestrator and financier are.



This is one thing what confounds me and leads me to think there are layers here, like an onion. Anyone with any insight into the engineering of this case would know the monetary value of their insight. Yet nobody talks for money..?

Quote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that those behind this hoax are very prominent in the field of Ufology. I won't name names without evidence but if I am correct, the source of the drone hoax would almost unfold into a Ufology conspiracy, designed to attract new fans who will believe whatever they see (or hear) on the internet.

The answers lay with the identified non photo drone witnesses. They offered their claims for some reason and I don't think it is because the drones are real.

Crazy idea? Maybe, maybe not!


An etherial concept like building a ufo fan base out in Calif would not be sufficient motivation to even begin this saga, JMO..

But my appreciation of the investment in this saga is why I think it has great potential to teach something to ufology. To all of us. Eventually. It is most confounding, inexplicable, complex and painstakingly detailed and surely out of all that, there will be many benefits for getting to the bottom of this.
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2009, 03:08am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1147 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 03:43am »

The truth is.. I don't know what to believe. Who does anymore? This big complex world gets more unknowing the more we know about its "reality". I imagine it is like that for the PTB as well. We are a microcosim example of the bickering, mistrust and varied opinions that exist within the halls of power. No doubt.

My big picture theory about the drones seems to parallel Masks.. at least so far as there was a purpose to it, a reason or reasons, public exposure being the vehicle of the message? To who and why such an investment into the material? Of what value? All questions I ponder..
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1148 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 04:54am »

on Sep 11th, 2009, 7:07pm, tomi01uk wrote:
It's a clients data, from all her old mediums.. this Mac is probably pre 2003.. I'm not bothering to run it's age down.. but this is as slow going as it gets. Could barely bring the system up as well initially without a lot of messing around with the old extensions manager.. tongue

You mean pre-OSX..is it running Os9 or earlier...Remember the shift key is your friend when starting.. smiley
It disables all the exensions....

on Sep 11th, 2009, 9:20pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
A) Liars that only wanted attention.

or

B) Are in on the hoax and came forward in an attempt to add authenticity to the case.

Brent could be Chad for all we know. His friend Tim could be Raj. Anyone that has claimed to see a drone should get the serious third degree interrogation. Perhaps an offer of money to confess or supply info as to who the orchestrator and financier are.

I have a sneaking suspicion that those behind this hoax are very prominent in the field of Ufology. I won't name names without evidence but if I am correct, the source of the drone hoax would almost unfold into a Ufology conspiracy, designed to attract new fans who will believe whatever they see (or hear) on the internet.

The answers lay with the identified non photo drone witnesses. They offered their claims for some reason and I don't think it is because the drones are real.

Crazy idea? Maybe, maybe not!


I always wondered about this also..Those non-photo witness and their motivations for their supposed sightings of a hoaxed craft...wink
Those who should have known better like Dr. Bob... smiley
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2009, 05:00am by Radi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1149 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 05:14am »

I think Sys put it all together with excellent contributions from others. He did the research and came up with scenarios that if one uses a rational thought process are simply too convincing to dismiss. Anyone could connect the dots.

Furthermore it is very likely that this group will not reveal themselves because they'll probably get paid to do it again for something else.

Most can understand this and given the exhausting effort put in by Sys are content to understand why it can go no further.

Alternatively besides it coming from something like a burgeoning ad agency or even students from an art and design class, plausible also is that professional ufologists put it together to generate interest/income.

Again no one would divulge the truth for obvious reasons.

Either someone has to be obsessive-compulsive to pursue this in such a manner as we see from time to time or is part of such a group and has something to gain other than merely seeking the truth.

So we are either dealing with an obsessive-compulsive who cannot connect the dots or is unwilling to connect the dots, or we're dealing with someone directly or peripherally involved.

In either case it serves no useful purpose to entertain this individual.
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2009, 05:15am by Gort » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1150 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 05:32am »

on Sep 12th, 2009, 04:54am, Radi wrote:
You mean pre-OSX..is it running Os9 or earlier...Remember the shift key is your friend when starting.. smiley
It disables all the exensions....



Yep.. and that's how I got it to boot initially smiley

Quote:
I always wondered about this also..Those non-photo witness and their motivations for their supposed sightings of a hoaxed craft...wink
Those who should have known better like Dr. Bob... smiley


What adds to the mystery to me is the parred down craft in Alabama, as well as those witnesses (names escape me) who wrote in to report seeing this parred down drone at an airforce show, etc..

I am also convinced in my mind that the "forester drone" the early prototype that monitored forests for fires, etc. is partly responsible for some witnesses' sightings.
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2009, 05:34am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1151 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 06:30am »

on Sep 12th, 2009, 05:14am, Gort wrote:
I think Sys put it all together with excellent contributions from others. He did the research and came up with scenarios that if one uses a rational thought process are simply too convincing to dismiss. Anyone could connect the dots.



Gort, you are beyond logic... obsessive compulsive and extreme in conclusions = sys..

Sys who claims anyone who questions authority a "conspiracy theorist" while entertaining conclusions that involve reams of people all collaborating together to hide clues in the LAP.. once colorised.. no less..
The fact is, you don't like me Gort. No other logic could possibly apply here and it doesn't matter if you do or don't actually. I've got the feeling you have an ax to grind that's all. And for some reason you lay it on me.
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2009, 06:36am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1152 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 09:13am »

Sounds like everyone was making money until Sys came along and threw a monkey wrench into the business deal. Such hostility, and likely the continuing motivation to keep it going, explains.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1153 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 10:47am »

on Sep 12th, 2009, 09:13am, Gort wrote:
Sounds like everyone was making money until Sys came along and threw a monkey wrench into the business deal. Such hostility, and likely the continuing motivation to keep it going, explains.


Gort, you are amazing mate, I'll get them to recommend you next time we need a dead pan player who can do one liners that make even less sense than mine grin wink
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1154 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 10:55am »

Tomi, You give far too much credit to the sophistication of this hoax. If you think about it, it was so obviously orchestrated it makes it amateurish! All anon witnesses, the drone becoming more and more sophisticated with each sighting, Isaac's nonsense release and its timing. This was done to make fools of anyone who believed it, of that there is no doubt in my mind! Talking about the sophistication is laughable.....you give these lowlifes way too much credit and in the process make laughing stocks of those that know the truth is out there and require hard evidence as proof!
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