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 sticky  Author  Topic: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 50833 times)
DrDil
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1215 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 2:27pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 03:57am, tomi01uk wrote:
I'm sure in my heart of hearts, and from conversations with her, that if LMH had any substancial answer to the drones mystery then she would provide maximum exposure to the saga.


Tomi, Tomi, Tomi….. grin

I wasn’t going to comment on this but you’re making LMH out to be a martyr to the cause, I sincerely mean no disrespect to you as I know for a fact that LMH has an instantly likeable personality and many (but not ALL)who have spoke to her say the same kind things about her.

But honestly, in your heart of hearts”?

Really?

Is this conclusion based solely on your personal experience when dealing with her?

I don’t intend to get into an LMH-bashing session but even if you quickly scan her work over the last twenty years or so (yes, after the cattle-mutes & the ‘genuine’ UFO –landing- footage she was baited with) and pick one of the high-profile cases that has been determined to be a hoax by seemingly all but two or three mainstream UFOlogists (and of course that she’s reported on in any depth).

Now show me where these retractions are by LMH? In fact forget about retractions what about admitting she was wrong? In fact forget about wrong, show me where she states she believes she was lied to or even mistaken, in fact never-mind, allow me to rephrase that.

What previous examples of reporting by LMH leads you to believe that she would declare a hoax?

And when you write things like:

on Sep 16th, 2009, 07:28am, tomi01uk wrote:
One sure way of creating an atmosphere where LMH and others will not be so expiditiously motivated to bring information to the public is by venemous attacks when they are using their resources and best efforts to solve this thing.

Encouragement to keep going, support if possible. Recognising the best intentions in people instead of imagining the worst. Giving allowances for the learning curve and adjustments necessary in this case as well as the need for confidencial protection to some shows a great deal more support than has been handed out to the people who are vested with solving this atm.

It boggles the mind when I think back to the way LMH has conducted herself to date regarding the Drones that you would even suggest that LMH’s reticence in information sharing is in some way our fault and as for, “venomous attacks” heh, heh, it takes two to tango….. laugh

“Imagining the worst”
?

There’s no imagining involved, merely reviewing her past record in declaring/recognising/dismissing hoaxes is more than enough evidence from which to draw a reasoned conclusion, so again I ask, what evidence have you seen that would suggest LMH would in fact declare the Drones a hoax if she was presented with evidence that directly confirms that fact?

All the ranting and raving she’s done about, “Debunkers” and her witnesses” and how they certainly never lied to her, offering numbered counts of them, how she’s independently verified them etc. etc.

And yet in your heart of hearts you still honestly expect that she’d recant?

Over two years ago now I wrote of her Drone timeline and the fact that she didn't qualify some of the original witnesses as such because they weren't reported to her personally, and I even suggested that judging by her actions people may well think that she’d played a part in perpetuating it, and to which you replied that when you mentioned this to her it was good to hear her 'belly-laugh' for a change.

I don't doubt you for a second, but did you notice that she pretty much instantly revised her timeline with no mention of the reasoning behind the edits, no mention of any of the edits, in fact no mention of any revision at all?

Anyway, one of us is seriously & gravely mistaken about LMH and in my heart of hearts I sincerely hope it’s me…..

Cheers smiley.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1216 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 2:29pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 2:17pm, tomi01uk wrote:
I could walk away and forget about it. In fact, I've been spending my spare time studying trading again. I just would love to know. I think that this will teach us something important. We may never see the likes of this kind of saga again, and to have it in our back pocket all sussed out.. will be a plus.


How would tracking down the hoaxers teach us something important? The lesson has already been taught. If you don't know what the lesson was, there is no hope for you. As far as never seeing the likes of this kind of saga again...it wasn't that special. It was an internet hoax targeting the online UFO community. Many more hoaxes will come and if the lesson that was learned is ignored, then the hoaxes will succeed. I really don't need to explain the lesson, do I?
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1217 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 2:31pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 1:42pm, tomi01uk wrote:
And hoax, no hoax or partial hoax.. I don't give a rat's petunia wtf it is. I said that before as well.

grin

But you've "never said that before" quite so eloquently!! kiss
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1218 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 2:34pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 2:24pm, Marvin wrote:
There’s no real reason to be angry with me… you need to look at what you are saying.

You give the impression to some folks that either you are clueless (let me quote you; “It could all be a hoax. It could be 100% hoax. I don't know.”)… or, that you are apart of “it” (you are just trying to keep the hoax alive). I am just giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I never said you should not continue to investigate the “who and why” (that would be other folks who said that), the issue here… your communicated understanding… you are not able to say it is a hoax. Don’t you need to know what you are looking for, so you will know when you find it (you claim to be looking for the “who and why” which strongly suggest you are looking for a hoaxer… but you are unable to confess there is a hoax)? Do you really need to have plausible deniability on this point (and why)?

I believe this is the heart of contention (on both sides) here, the dancing around what it is (that it is a hoax)…that and the lack of trust on both sides.

But that is the “bed” that has been made.

Have a great one Tomi.



Hey, no problem Marvin, I know you are good head with the best of intentions. However,. you are boxing me into a corner I will not go into.

Lemme put it this way... I'm out of the loop ok? But I know enough to know that when 11th, DRT and LMH declare this to be 100% unadulterated hoax I will say.. yeah it is. Up to that point I don't care. I don't care one way or another. Either way this whole saga is fascinating to me.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1219 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 2:42pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 2:34pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Hey, no problem Marvin, I know you are good head with the best of intentions. However,. you are boxing me into a corner I will not go into.

Lemme put it this way... I'm out of the loop ok? But I know enough to know that when 11th, DRT and LMH declare this to be 100% unadulterated hoax I will say.. yeah it is. Up to that point I don't care. I don't care one way or another. Either way this whole saga is fascinating to me.

There’s the difference!!

With the facts and evidence to date I’m quite happy to state that I believe this to be a 100% hoax and should evidence to the contrary be presented I’ll be massively surprised shocked but I’ll bounce back, dust myself off and continue to observe UFO reports and the community that surrounds them, no biggie.

I'm quite pleased I don't/didn't rely on others to form my opinion/s for me, but regardless, I certainly wouldn’t settle for just being told something, even if by Isaac himself…..

Cheers. smiley
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1220 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 2:43pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 2:34pm, tomi01uk wrote:
But I know enough to know that when 11th, DRT and LMH declare this to be 100% unadulterated hoax I will say.. yeah it is. Up to that point I don't care. I don't care one way or another. Either way this whole saga is fascinating to me.


What about coming to your own conclusion based upon the evidence to date? Do others have to do your thinking for you? I am so disappointed in that response.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1221 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 2:46pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 2:27pm, DrDil wrote:
Anyway, one of us is seriously & gravely mistaken about LMH and in my heart of hearts I sincerely hope it’s me…..

Cheers smiley.


Me too DrDil, mee too. I know first of all she is a very busy woman. She carries facts and figures in her head that would rival most ppls hard drives. I just don't know to be honest if she realises how important the drones are to a subset of the ppl out there.

She has so many diverse subjects she juggles and they all vie for her time. She has pulls in many different directions that always need attending to. Encouraging her to what a story this will be in follow up even if a hoax is the only thing I can suggest.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1222 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 2:49pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 2:46pm, tomi01uk wrote:
I just don't know to be honest if she realises how important the drones are to a subset of the ppl out there.


You continue to blow my mind with your comments today. Other than the DRT forum (which is very small), what subset of people can you possibly be referring to?

99.999999% of Ufology labels the drones for what they are....a hoax!
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1223 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 2:50pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 2:43pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
What about coming to your own conclusion based upon the evidence to date? Do others have to do your thinking for you? I am so disappointed in that response.


You are disappointed? How do you think I feel? Nobody realises the sacrifices I have made to try to take a stand against tribalism.. Now I'm in a group of anti drone fascists who want me to recant the possibility that there could be some MIC connection..
OK there I said it ! Now laugh.. grin Cuss I'm laughing.. sure I am.. not being able to help dig anymore because I decided to hang out with hooligans.. wink And that's the truth and that's all you gonna get from me cool
« Last Edit: Sep 16th, 2009, 2:51pm by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1224 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 2:53pm »

Hi EVS smiley,

Apparently you still read here so as I have no other method/right of reply and as you’ve recently posted a screen-shot of one of my comments on this forum, well, I just wanted to point something out.

You start off saying:

Quote:
“I just want to have my say on this, as I under no circumstances endorse ANY hoax.”

So, you don’t endorse hoaxes but directly defend those involved in perpetrating hoaxes when the accusation of hoaxer is levelled at them? The difference is evidently too subtle for me to detect so I was hoping that perhaps you can tell me, what is the difference?

Also, perhaps the fact that 3 posts after the screenshot of my comment you recently posted I reiterated my point that the only reason I posted the comment -you took umbrage- with was not only because a ‘hoax’ is by very definition an act of deceit (i.e. a ‘lie’) but the constant admission and then denial of ownership of said hoax is in fact (exactly) ‘lying’ and I was perfectly justified in pointing that out.

Furthermore the comment where I reiterated this was already posted and so ‘live’ when you chose to post an earlier comment (completely omitting my clarification) and by selectively representing my words (i.e. out of context) you deliberately misrepresented the intention, which incidentally is similar to the one you espoused regarding not endorsing “ANY” hoax.

Cogito, ergo sum”?

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi, qui tacet consentire ….. (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)

Finally, on the off-chance that you do wish to reply or further comment then I would appreciate you doing so here or somewhere else that doesn’t discriminate according to personal belief, or perhaps more relevantly doesn’t block the IP addresses of those that refuse to dismiss logic & common sense in order to conform to group-think. At least that way I may see it, or was that the motivation behind posting it where you did?

Cheers (old friend). smiley
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1225 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 3:05pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 2:50pm, tomi01uk wrote:
You are disappointed? How do you think I feel? Nobody realises the sacrifices I have made to try to take a stand against tribalism.. Now I'm in a group of anti drone fascists who want me to recant the possibility that there could be some MIC connection..
OK there I said it ! Now laugh.. grin Cuss I'm laughing.. sure I am.. not being able to help dig anymore because I decided to hang out with hooligans.. wink And that's the truth and that's all you gonna get from me cool


Instead of addressing my disappoinment (nice evasive technique) address the issue of not thinking for yourself and wanting others to reach a conclusion for you. Address why the current evidence to date does not satisfy the definition of hoax. Address why you think finding the hoaxers is still possible when the photo witnesses themselves remain anonymous after two plus years?

You speak in circles and really make no sense. I am starting to doubt your true intentions concerning the drones. I am starting to wonder what your real agenda is all about.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1226 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 3:18pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 3:05pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
Address why the current evidence to date does not satisfy the definition of hoax.



It is obviously engineered to some degree, I will grant you that. You can define it as a hoax. I'm looking for some meaning in all of this. Like I said before, I have shielded myself with the mental framework of not giving a rat's petunia wtf it is smiley

Quote:
Address why you think finding the hoaxers is still possible when the photo witnesses themselves remain anonymous after two plus years?



Are you certain it is impossible?

Quote:
I am starting to doubt your true intentions concerning the drones. I am starting to wonder what your real agenda is all about.


Your perception needs honing then grin

edit to add: The reason why I default to the DRT at this time about the drones is because I can not satisfy myself that there isn't some vested interest, meaning or purpose behind this thing. Once all is known, I'm perfectly happy either way, I just want to know the purpose and what else was behind this. Doesn't this interest you? What is the "hidden agenda" you can conjur out of that?
« Last Edit: Sep 16th, 2009, 3:35pm by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1227 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 3:31pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 3:18pm, tomi01uk wrote:
It is obviously engineered to some degree, I will grant you that. You can define it as a hoax. I'm looking for some meaning in all of this. Like I said before, I have shielded myself with the mental framework of not giving a rat's petunia wtf it is smiley


By having a mental framework of not caring what it is, you leave your self susceptible to believing it can be something more than a hoax. You should care a great deal about what it is. And all the evidence to date that points to hoax. Justify the following:

A drone hangs out for many days over a populated area and highway restaurant but is not reported by anyone other than Chad.



Quote:
Are you certain it is impossible?


I am certain that if thousands of dollars and man hours cannot identify the photo witnesses, that it is highly unlikely that the investigators will ever find the hoaxers.
Finding a photo location is one thing, finding who took the photo has proven to indeed be impossible.



Quote:
Your perception needs honing then grin


Perhaps. but I think not! wink

Quote:
edit to add: The reason why I default to the DRT at this time about the drones is because I can not satisfy myself that there isn't some vested interest, meaning or purpose behind this thing. Once all is known, I'm perfectly happy either way, I just want to know the purpose and what else was behind this. Doesn't this interest you? What is the "hidden agenda" you can conjur out of that?


What happened to 'not giving a rat's petunia wtf it is' ?
You talk in circles. You may never know those things and as a result will continue to tout the drones as something special in the annals of Ufology, when in actuality it is an internet hoax not worthy of all the adoration you bestow upon it. How is that for a hidden agenda?
« Last Edit: Sep 16th, 2009, 3:47pm by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1228 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 3:58pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 3:31pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
What happened to 'not giving a rat's petunia wtf it is' ?
You talk in circles. You may never know those things and as a result will continue to tout the drones as something special in the annals of Ufology, when in actuality it is an internet hoax not worthy of all the adoration you bestow upon it. How is that for a hidden agenda?


That's not my agenda, but yours. I can not make anyone take a long deep look into the LAP and appreciate it. Or inspire them to want to know at the very least who created this thing.

You on the other hand.. you seem to have an agenda. One that considers it more necessary to label this a hoax than to get to the very bottom of it.

Either way I doubt your worries will come to pass. I know and you know all that can be known will come out in the future. When has it not?
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1229 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 4:08pm »

on Sep 16th, 2009, 3:31pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
Justify the following:

A drone hangs out for many days over a populated area and highway restaurant but is not reported by anyone other than Chad.

Seems like a non-brainer to me. Esp looking back, which you didn't have to do.. that is the value of many perceptions. IMO smiley

Quote:
I am certain that if thousands of dollars and man hours cannot identify the photo witnesses, that it is highly unlikely that the investigators will ever find the hoaxers.
Finding a photo location is one thing, finding who took the photo has proven to indeed be impossible.



You may be right, but all we can do is wait and see.
Meanwhile, I'm still trying to think of ways to solve this.. forgive me but tenacity with me is a character flaw.. wink





« Last Edit: Sep 16th, 2009, 4:08pm by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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