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 sticky  Author  Topic: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 66152 times)
tommi01
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #900 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 1:15pm »

on Aug 25th, 2009, 10:52am, Jeddyhi wrote:
Was it more important to continue propagating a drone reality than to publish true accurate assessments, even if those assessments did not point to a drone reality?

We were in the early days of OMRT then, our research as a small group belonged to us, an ultimately would lead to the discoveries made, not by Mufon either.. who has a right to demand that? And nobody wanted credit, only answers, and we were the ones doing the legwork, and that legwork was only just beginning. He had quite a set on him, storming into OM expecting to be fed information on request. IMO..
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #901 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 2:22pm »

on Aug 25th, 2009, 1:05pm, tomi01uk wrote:
shocked Aaach! Please tell me this is a windup??
I'm guessing it isn't though... rolleyes Seriously, this isn't worth the time debating because there are two perspectives here never the two shall meet in the middle on this issue it seems.

I had communications with ppl behind the scenes, also with ppl of a much higher "eschalon" than myself.. so all I'm going to say is my position holds on him with no regrets for that particular situation.


Regardless of your communications, the fact of the matter is that a very simple, basic thing was overlooked or purposely ignored and apparently deemed unimportant.....the vetting of the photo witnesses.

By deductive reasoning and a logical approach, the photo witnesses were either genuine in their story and were real people who witnessed a real event

or

they were performing a hoax.

Since they didn't allow themselves to be vetted, not even privately, the attention of the OMRT/DRT went straight to the photos and Isaac material while wild excuses of fear and ridicule was thrown about to explain the continuing anonymity of these witnesses.

The OMRT and later the DRT would focus on the technology behind these sightings without ever having confirmed that the sightings ever took place to begin with....the proverbial cart before the horse scenario. A lot of evidence of hoax was blatantly ignored. From superficial, circumstancial, to professional assessment of the photos themselves. Vetting the photo witnesses seemed unimportant while great effort was put forth to promote a drone reality. This can't be denied. It is all on record.





on Aug 25th, 2009, 1:15pm, tomi01uk wrote:
We were in the early days of OMRT then, our research as a small group belonged to us, an ultimately would lead to the discoveries made, not by Mufon either.. who has a right to demand that? And nobody wanted credit, only answers, and we were the ones doing the legwork, and that legwork was only just beginning. He had quite a set on him, storming into OM expecting to be fed information on request. IMO..


You can't rewrite history, Tomi, or twist it to fit your conception of what it should be. Mufon released their preliminary report and it flew in the face of what the OMRT/DRT was promoting...a drone reality. The Mufon report was criticized and ridiculed by the dronies. James Carrion came to OM asking for whatever evidence there was to suggest that the drones were real. He obviously figured you all felt the way you did for some reason. He asked, not demanded, for this evidence. He offered to give credit to the OMRT for whatever they had. He wanted you all to show him why and how he was wrong concerning the drones. And nobody could.

He asked for the very simple basic thing I mentioned above.....the vetting of the photo witnesses to establish some sort of authenticity. He wanted to put the horse back in front of the cart and follow a logical, intelligent path.

This, of course, interfered with the drone reality that was being conveyed by those that fell for the hoax.

The moral to this all is that no matter how intelligent you are, no matter how great a researcher someone may be, the best approach to any event is an unbiased approach. Even a skeptical approach would lead to the truth faster than following a pre-concieved notion where the blanks are filled in according to the agenda.

There is not much to debate about the Carrion affair on OM. It is what it is. You can defend what happened any way you want, but it basically boils down to a failure to cooperate with a worldwide UFO investigative organization because they knew it was a hoax.

Mufon didn't agree with the pro drone agenda and that flew in the face of the OMRT/DRT. End of story.
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2009, 2:28pm by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #902 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 2:42pm »

Quote:
Mufon didn't agree with the pro drone agenda and that flew in the face of the OMRT/DRT. End of story.


END OF STORY!!!
How ridiculous.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #903 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 2:48pm »

Ridiculous? How so? I don't recall any cooperation between Mufon and the OMRT/DRT, do you?
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2009, 3:07pm by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #904 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 2:51pm »

on Aug 25th, 2009, 2:22pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
... the best approach to any event is an unbiased approach. Even a skeptical approach would lead to the truth faster than following a pre-concieved notion where the blanks are filled in according to the agenda



I agree !

Quote:
...to cooperate with a worldwide UFO investigative organization because they knew it was a hoax.


Well.. I don't know this thing is 100% hoax. Some of it is "engineered", that's for sure. No dispute there.. but you know what? I'm pretty sure Bren is 100% real wink
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #905 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 2:54pm »

on Aug 25th, 2009, 2:51pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Well.. I don't know this thing is 100% hoax. Some of it is "engineered", that's for sure. No dispute there.. but you know what? I'm pretty sure Bren is 100% real wink


LOLOL....me too! Especially since I have talked to him and Ivo both on the phone. grin
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #906 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 3:06pm »

END OF STORY would be a good thing.
I would be happy with that.
The title Hoax is sufficient for this saga as it now stands.
WE could all relax and prepare for the future of UFOs and things that may come.
BTW, History is the lie we all agree upon.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #907 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 3:11pm »

Will you address why you think that "End of story" is ridiculous in regards to the Mufon/OMRT debacle? No cooperation ever took place.....so, end of story!
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2009, 3:31pm by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #908 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 3:31pm »

I have had my time at OMF and refer to "End of the Story" as being related to the Drone Saga overall. I do not refer to you or your interests in Mufon. Also ridiculous refers to not you or your thoughts but the idea that this story will ever truly end. Others will eventually dig it up. I never found OMF catering to Dronies, but it is of no matter to me now. There was an agenda from the beginning or I should say soon after the beginning and that agenda worked. Now is this all really viral marketing! If that is your conclusion or just a plain bored CG Artist Hoax, well so be it. It would seem that as I think you said, "The horse is dead".
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #909 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 3:42pm »

I prefer to keep it simple. The drones have never been proven to be an actual event. No photo witnesses were ever vetted, none came forward, and locations were fabricated. There were no corroborating police reports or UFO reports to help authenticate that any of the alleged sightings even took place.

True locations were discovered and no corroborating evidence or testimony resulted from these discoveries.

All of the pictures and the Isaac/Caret material have come from anonymous internet sources and have shown no basis for being considered authentic.

This was apparent to MUFON and most researchers examining the case early on. Add in the professional assessment of the photos and there is not one thing to suggest that anything related to the drones is based in reality.

So hoax, disinformation, viral marketing, whatever anyone wants to label it, it means one thing.......not real for a lack of convincing evidence!
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2009, 4:06pm by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #910 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 4:37pm »

The effect it produced in many areas being more substantial than, in your opinion, its physical reality as a device seen and reported on is of no consequence to me. The effect it produced in the UFO community and the message it sends is what is important to me. Who will ever believe such as this again and that can produce a very very convenient place of refuge. Mufon, OMF, here, no one will entertain this without HOAX rit large. The Drones in themselves were beautiful images and will continue to draw attention from some places. Just be sure that your "Dead Horse" does not wrap itself in new flesh and be diligent of the days ahead. Notice how the UFO saga, in general, becomes less and less.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #911 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 4:48pm »

Forget it, masker.

You don't know anything and this saga was only present in a few forums and some "open minds" - too open for my taste.

The loony bin will take away all the computers soon and there will be no more internet anymore. But you still can tell everybody, that you are Napoleon. The drones only get and got as much attention as they get and got here. No American idol at all.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #912 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 4:51pm »

on Aug 25th, 2009, 4:37pm, Masker33 wrote:
The effect it produced in many areas being more substantial than, in your opinion, its physical reality as a device seen and reported on is of no consequence to me. The effect it produced in the UFO community and the message it sends is what is important to me. Who will ever believe such as this again and that can produce a very very convenient place of refuge. Mufon, OMF, here, no one will entertain this without HOAX rit large. The Drones in themselves were beautiful images and will continue to draw attention from some places. Just be sure that your "Dead Horse" does not wrap itself in new flesh and be diligent of the days ahead. Notice how the UFO saga, in general, becomes less and less.


Yep, that's why I believe lean strongly towards it being, due to logical conclusions and lateral thinking..., tongue far more than a hoax as well. Or else we have to discount 90% of the smoke out there, which is a bit of a far stretch, even for a "skeptic".
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #913 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 4:56pm »

on Aug 25th, 2009, 4:48pm, SiddReader wrote:
Forget it, masker.

You don't know anything and this saga was only present in a few forums and some "open minds" - too open for my taste.

The loony bin will take away all the computers soon and there will be no more internet anymore. But you still can tell everybody, that you are Napoleon. The drones only get and got as much attention as they get and got here. No American idol at all.


Ahh Sidd.. just in time grin
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #914 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 5:08pm »

All that needs to be discounted are anonymous claims with no substantial evidence to back the claims.

You behave as if the internet has not ever been used to perform hoaxes.

I discount sightings that have no witnesses, no verification, no authenticating or corroborating testimony.

I just posted this story today on OMF concerning the Portage County UFO chase from 1966. Not one photo was involved but I have no trouble believing it happened as described. Mostly because I doubt that Police officers from different agencies conspired to perform a hoax. The sighting includes real people, names, dates, and corroborating testimony. Basically all of the things that the drones lack.

To believe that the drones were a real event on the evidence presented is indicative of a "I want to believe" attitude, no matter how shabby the evidence is. That is not productive or helping to UFology. The truth will never be found if falsehoods are accepted without question.
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2009, 5:09pm by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

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