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 sticky  Author  Topic: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 15512 times)
tommi01
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #915 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 5:11pm »

on Aug 25th, 2009, 5:08pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
All that needs to be discounted are anonymous internet claims with no substantial evidence to back the claims.

You behave as if the internet has not ever been used to perform hoaxes.

I discount sightings that have no witnesses, no verification, no authenticating or corroborating testimony.

I just posted this story today on OMF concerning the Portage County UFO chase from 1966. Not one photo was involved but I have no trouble believing it happened as described. Mostly because I doubt that Police officers from different agencies conspired to perform a hoax. The sighting includes real people, names, dates, and corroborating testimony. Basically all of the things that the drones lack.

To believe that the drones were a real event on the evidence presented is indicative of a "I want to believe" attitude, no matter how shabby the evidence is. That is not productive or helping to UFology. The truth will never be found if falsehoods are accepted without question.


I do not believe the drones were a real event. I look at the subtext in all this as having some value. What and to who? Masker says he knows.. So... why does everything have to boil down to a debate between a warlock and an anthropologist grin grin grin wink
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2009, 5:24pm by tommi01 » User IP Logged

DrDil
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #916 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 5:21pm »

on Aug 25th, 2009, 4:37pm, Masker33 wrote:
<snip>

The effect it produced in the UFO community and the message it sends is what is important to me.

<snip>


on Jul 22nd, 2009, 3:13pm, DrDil wrote:
<snip>

Speaking of which, it seems to me like you have more invested in perpetuating the hoax than anyone else who regularly posts and as for ‘myth-status,’ well….. It also seems that you’ve appointed yourself chief-manufacturer of the envisaged modern-myth, a status which in my opinion will never be attained

<snip>




on Aug 25th, 2009, 4:51pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Yep, that's why I believe lean strongly towards it being, due to logical conclusions and lateral thinking..., tongue far more than a hoax as well. Or else we have to discount 90% of the smoke out there, which is a bit of a far stretch, even for a "skeptic".


Perhaps if you stop blowing the smoke then it may dissipate of its own accord? grin

Far more than a hoax” ?!

Like what, an outright lie?

Or more importantly what’s the difference?

To be honest it’s at least AS puzzling to me why you cling to this belief?

What possible indication could/have/can you see that I can’t that elevates this above an internet hoax?

I mean that sincerely, we’ve seen pretty much the exact same evidence, well, back in the day and yet we’ve always viewed the Drones from polar opposite standpoints, I genuinely mean it when I say I have yet to see ANY evidence at ALL which lends ANY credence to the Drones being recognisable in anything that I recognise or can verify as a ‘real-world’ event.

Let’s lay our cards on the table…….

What was your tipping point?

What made you think there’s more to this than an internet hoax?

Cheers.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #917 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 5:28pm »

I think I remember (and please don't ask me to dig up quotes), but you yourself have posted that the time and degree of effort in this event makes it extrodinary and possibly more than a simple internet hoax.

But that is why I think it as well.. smiley
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2009, 5:28pm by tommi01 » User IP Logged

masker33
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #918 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 5:40pm »

This is not my resurrection of the current Drone talk, but I am bound to make use of it and so I do. Your belief is simply not required for my efforts. You have an obligation to your beliefs and conceptions, so stick to them. Myth-maker, maybe you should look more closely at that. Since it would involve me, I can not imagine why you would waste your time. It can be assured that the Drones in new forms can be placed in many new places that will fit neatly with new technology. Will they be debunked? They are so designed. Maybe the whys and wherefores of this saga would require that you would be forced to call upon an insane mind. Interesting.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #919 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 5:46pm »

Only an insane mind, since you appear as you appear, masker.

If you would be straight forward, it would be more easy to talk about all that stuff. The drones don't deliver too much new things. All that was talked about before in SciFi.

This is, what brings ideas forward. But which of those ideas was new?

Edit to add: Ah, forgot... And - of course - you have mental problems. This was obvious since our first contact.
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2009, 5:51pm by SiddReader » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #920 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 6:17pm »

on Aug 25th, 2009, 5:46pm, SiddReader wrote:
Only an insane mind, since you appear as you appear, masker.

If you would be straight forward, it would be more easy to talk about all that stuff. The drones don't deliver too much new things. All that was talked about before in SciFi.

This is, what brings ideas forward. But which of those ideas was new?

Edit to add: Ah, forgot... And - of course - you have mental problems. This was obvious since our first contact.


IMO the expression "crazy like a fox" fits Masker..

edit to add: except he's not a fox, he's a warlock grin
which gives him even more "poetic liscense" wink
You go Masker !
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #921 on: Aug 25th, 2009, 6:53pm »

on Aug 25th, 2009, 5:28pm, tomi01uk wrote:
I think I remember (and please don't ask me to dig up quotes), but you yourself have posted that the time and degree of effort in this event makes it extrodinary and possibly more than a simple internet hoax.

But that is why I think it as well.. smiley

As you would say Tomi it’s akin to comparing “apples & oranges” as regardless what I’ve posted anywhere I challenge you to find anything I’ve wrote ever which would suggest that I believe there’s even the tiniest element of truth to anything even slightly related to the Drone debacle, which, is what I was getting at (i.e. clinging to the belief that there's some truth here).

I may have stated that I have a niggling feeling there’s a little more to this than the average run-of-the-mill hoax but I’ve also stated that I wouldn’t be surprised at all to discover it was perpetrated just for the hell of it, but either suggestion in NO WAY suggests that I believe a word of it was based in or derived from a “truth” as I would recognise it.

I apologise if this wasn’t clear, so just to reiterate:

More than an average internet hoax?
Possibly…..

Any truth to it?
Not a chance!!

It's no more than pseudoscientific, pseudointellectual, sci-faux drivel.

In fact almost a year ago I wrote:

Quote:
I'll admit that the same as many others the very first time I started to read Isaac's musings it was with a wide-eyed wonder, but inevitably by the time I'd finished reading Isaac's "Explanation Of the Strange Craft" package (which was accompanied by the highly sensitive and allegedly stolen documentation & images) then it's fair to say the initial "Wow" factor had well and truly worn off.

Alas never to return....

Familiarity Breeds Contempt

After a couple more times of reading and after the information relayed was allowed time to settle then it read at best like half-decent sci-fi. However after many, many more times of reading then I realised that Isaac's entire account was as ludicrous as it was fantastical. In my humble opinion it really was no more than the literary equivalent of grandstanding and when broken down then the words of Isaac are little more than empty rhetoric with the entire account being laced with grandiose statements, pseudo-intellectual/scientific techno-babble, massively irrelevant, bizarre and often nonsensical metaphors, yet more grandiose statements etc. etc.

None of Isaac's account stands up to critical thinking let alone lends itself to analytical procedures of ANY description, whether that is the pseudoscientific techno-babble, his employment history, the name of the establishment, the layout of the documents (clarity, missing classification stamps etc.) or the multitude of other inconsistencies most of which are enough to kill Isaac's credibility alone.

But when they are all combined then it becomes impossible to believe a word that Isaac wrote.


In fact to be honest then the vast majority of the prose was little more than Isaac establishing his authority before unleashing the might of the intricate and aesthetically pleasing line drawings that his ' Linguistic analysis primer ' (LAP) is comprised of as there's no denying that the LAP that accompanied Isaac's ramblings was certainly inspired as there's no denying it is still a thing of beauty.

Because as outlandish the context and as ridiculous the premise, there's something strangely compelling about it. In fact it's probably one of the better creations within the Drone debacle and is oft overlooked by people who happen across the Drones and subsequently Isaac's documentation. Especially if it's just a cursory glance afforded the documents as until you actually open the LAP in imaging software and zoom in then it's impossible to appreciate the intricacy and workmanship that has obviously went into its (overly) structured design.

Source.

And although I guarantee you I’ve never held or expressed any ‘real-world’ belief in the Drones I did state the following (to you!!) quite a while ago:

Quote:

I guess I don’t know it all ( kiss) and to be honest all of my beliefs are so loosely held that none are beyond reproach should contradictory and convincing information appear that directly refutes them.

(Source).

I guess what I’m trying to say is I’m covered anyway!! grin

Joking aside though -and I will admit I consider it most unfortunate- I have never seen anything Drone-related that would inspire belief let alone instil it…..

Cheers. smiley
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #922 on: Aug 26th, 2009, 03:28am »

Well, yet again, you said it better than I could hope to fashion into words..

Quote:
"there's something strangely compelling about it. In fact it's probably one of the better creations within the Drone debacle and is oft overlooked by people who happen across the Drones and subsequently Isaac's documentation. Especially if it's just a cursory glance afforded the documents as until you actually open the LAP in imaging software and zoom in then it's impossible to appreciate the intricacy and workmanship that has obviously went into its (overly) structured design."


And when you do the same to the rotorooter and the BB drone, the appreciation (for me at least) is even more mind boggleing.

Why should anyone be so curious about what I think? I'm just one of many out there trying to help make sense out of this from all our different perspectives.

My mother graduated with honors from Rhode Island School of Design and I grew up around a drawing table (literally)... All the implementations of creativity, before computers, were something I was familiar with; rapidograph pens, paste up, layout, typesetting, linographic typesetting, etc.. I was exposed to Hasselblad cameras, photographers, artists, and the process of printing and publishing. Later, in my own career, I became deeply steeped into the more coarse world of paints, substrates and finishes. Late 80's, I was playing around myself with Illustrator and computer art programs.

I'm no expert myself, but I do appreciate what I see in the drone material. I can fathom how difficult, exhaustively so, it would be to encompass all elements predictably into this saga.

Quote:
"Any truth to it?
Not a chance!!

It's no more than pseudoscientific, pseudointellectual, sci-faux drivel."



Perhaps..... But we are engaging in a murky area of interests.. UFO phenomenon. What is "pseudoscientific" and "pseudointellectual" to some, may not be to others. I will offer up the field of psychology, particulary psychotherapy, as an example here.

Perhaps the use of the prefix "pseudo" as an ad hominem is the nouveau approach to disregard what we still don't know for certain.



« Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2009, 05:09am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #923 on: Aug 26th, 2009, 08:29am »

http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=analysis&action=display&thread=6118&page=1

Make a drone (several) out of balsa wood, coat the interior with latex to prevent leaks, fill with helium, release over populated areas. Can you just imagine ruckushuh
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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #924 on: Aug 26th, 2009, 08:42am »

on Aug 24th, 2009, 2:01pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Cameron was demanding information like it was owed to him all the while taking a diametrically opposite opinion about the event, to the one we had. Heads clashed. But primarily we were not going to hand our many hours of hard investigative work still being formed over to this guy...


on Aug 25th, 2009, 10:36am, tomi01uk wrote:
I really don't want to get into debate here, but Carrion didn't approach us asking for help or insight, he was contentious and opinionated like everyone else at the time. That lowers the bar IMO.



If transparency breeds trust… then when someone hides the laundry, others are left to suspect that some of it maybe dirty.

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #925 on: Aug 26th, 2009, 08:45am »

Fore wrote......


Quote:
On the otherhand, if people knew several things that went on privately during the drone saga with some MUFON members, they would no doubt "frown" quite a bit. In either case, he wasn't mistreated.

He was just frustrated. <--- a safe bet statement.

Sometimes people hold a grudge even after all these years.

Carrion was most certainly mistreated
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #926 on: Aug 26th, 2009, 09:52am »

Carrion is back on OM.

http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=cali1&action=display&thread=6287&page=1
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #927 on: Aug 26th, 2009, 10:52am »

on Aug 26th, 2009, 08:42am, Marvin wrote:
If transparency breeds trust… then when someone hides the laundry, others are left to suspect that some of it maybe dirty.



However, you don't check for sweat stains and yellow collars while they are still wearing the shirt...
I won't bring up underwear.. wink
« Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2009, 10:57am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #928 on: Aug 26th, 2009, 10:56am »

on Aug 26th, 2009, 09:52am, Jeddyhi wrote:
Carrion is back on OM.

http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=cali1&action=display&thread=6287&page=1


Yep.. sharp as a tack.. lipsrsealed grin

Quote:
"I am simply asking Admin and IVO5000 to verify that they are real people by posting their comprehensive CVs or resumes so that I can verify them through public records. Surely as the co-owners of OM, they wouldn't be averse to proving their identities."

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #929 on: Aug 26th, 2009, 11:13am »

Thats exactly the kind of disrespect that you all showed the first time around. I suspect that he may be sharper than you as he is the International Director of Mufon.
« Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2009, 11:41am by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

"Nothing will ever claim ownership of the original Drone information, so copyright is not a question. Use it."- Masker33
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