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 sticky  Author  Topic: Drone Discussion #10  (Read 70404 times)
tommi01
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #300 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 7:40pm »

on Sep 30th, 2009, 7:31pm, StaffLetter666 wrote:
Yes.
I know of your claim of knowledge of copyrights.
I don't need to rely on some Wiki.
I live in the world of common sense and common sense dictates the design was given away and rights abandoned.
Any judge or jury with common sense would agree regardless of your reading of any law or right.
It can't be won.


Do you even know the procedure for filing a copyright with the Library of Congress and what that entails the owner? Look it up before supposing common sense prevails over common law grin
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #301 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 7:41pm »

on Sep 30th, 2009, 7:37pm, Double Nought Spy wrote:
Tomi gets her legal opinions from the same place she gets her art appraisals. Out of thin air. Anybody can make crap up as they go along.


Take every detail I've laid out here and test it in research about copyright law. You will see I know exactly what I'm talking about, that is why I'm doing it so confidently right now. I do about this aspect of law. I won't say how, except I do know a great deal more about it than I ever wished to .. lipsrsealed
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #302 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 7:46pm »

on Sep 30th, 2009, 7:41pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Take every detail I've laid out here and test it in research about copyright law. You will see I know exactly what I'm talking about, that is why I'm doing it so confidently right now. I do about this aspect of law. I won't say how, except I do know a great deal more about it than I ever wished to .. lipsrsealed


I know a bit about it myself, and patents too, which means I know enough not to make a fool of myself rendering legal opinions on an internet forum. Your hypothetical copyright case is anything but straightforward, and for anyone who is not a copyright attorney to speculate on the outcome is just silly.
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #303 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 7:51pm »

on Sep 30th, 2009, 7:46pm, Double Nought Spy wrote:
I know a bit about it myself, and patents too, which means I know enough not to make a fool of myself rendering legal opinions on an internet forum. Your hypothetical copyright case is anything but straightforward, and for anyone who is not a copyright attorney to speculate on the outcome is just silly.


Yeah? Lemme ask you.. how many lawsuits have you ever had to have served for copyright violation at one time? Till you've hit as many companies as the Godfather hit families.. you don't know squat my friend. cheesy
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #304 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 7:53pm »

Nowadays, a copyright is automatic as soon as the material is put into a tangible form (written down, CD, DVD, harddrive, etc...)

From the US copyright office:
-------------------------------------------

What is copyright?
Copyright is a form of protection grounded in the U.S. Constitution and granted by law for original works of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression. Copyright covers both published and unpublished works.

What does copyright protect?
Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section "What Works Are Protected."

How is a copyright different from a patent or a trademark?
Copyright protects original works of authorship, while a patent protects inventions or discoveries. Ideas and discoveries are not protected by the copyright law, although the way in which they are expressed may be. A trademark protects words, phrases, symbols, or designs identifying the source of the goods or services of one party and distinguishing them from those of others.

When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”

Why should I register my work if copyright protection is automatic?
Registration is recommended for a number of reasons. Many choose to register their works because they wish to have the facts of their copyright on the public record and have a certificate of registration. Registered works may be eligible for statutory damages and attorney's fees in successful litigation. Finally, if registration occurs within 5 years of publication, it is considered prima facie evidence in a court of law. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration” and Circular 38b, Highlights of Copyright Amendments Contained in the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA), on non-U.S. works.

What is the registration fee?
If you file online using eCO eService, the fee is $35 per application. If you file using Form CO, the fee is $50 per application. Generally, each work requires a separate application. See Circular 4, Copyright Fees.

------------------------------------------------------------

I highlighted some questions pertinent to the topic at hand.
« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2009, 7:57pm by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #305 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 7:55pm »

on Sep 30th, 2009, 7:51pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Yeah? Lemme ask you.. how many lawsuits have you ever had to have served for copyright violation at one time? Till you've hit as many companies as the Godfather hit families.. you don't know squat my friend. cheesy


Are you a copyright lawyer? Then you don't know squat yourself, other than some copyright was violated and a lawsuit was needed. If the plaintiff knew it all, copyright lawyers wouldn't be needed.
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #306 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 7:59pm »

on Sep 30th, 2009, 7:55pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
Are you a copyright lawyer? Then you don't know squat yourself, other than some copyright was violated and a lawsuit was needed. If the plaintiff knew it all, copyright lawyers wouldn't be needed.


Jeddyhi, On this topic I know exactly what I say is correct. Yes, I've been through "the mill" in everything I'm saying here. No, I am not an attorney but I have worked with numerous ones regarding every aspect I relate here.
« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2009, 7:59pm by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #307 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 8:05pm »

on Sep 30th, 2009, 7:41pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Take every detail I've laid out here and test it in research about copyright law. You will see I know exactly what I'm talking about, that is why I'm doing it so confidently right now. I do about this aspect of law. I won't say how, except I do know a great deal more about it than I ever wished to .. lipsrsealed


US Copyright Law Duration of copyright

§ 302. Duration of copyright:

Works created on or after January 1, 19784
(a) In General. — Copyright in a work created on or after January 1, 1978, subsists from its creation and, except as provided by the following subsections, endures for a term consisting of the life of the author and 70 years after the author's death.

(b) Joint Works. — In the case of a joint work prepared by two or more authors who did not work for hire, the copyright endures for a term consisting of the life of the last surviving author and 70 years after such last surviving author's death.

(c) Anonymous Works, Pseudonymous Works, and Works Made for Hire. — In the case of an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication, or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first. If, before the end of such term, the identity of one or more of the authors of an anonymous or pseudonymous work is revealed in the records of a registration made for that work under subsections (a) or (d) of section 408, or in the records provided by this subsection, the copyright in the work endures for the term specified by subsection (a) or (b), based on the life of the author or authors whose identity has been revealed. Any person having an interest in the copyright in an anonymous or pseudonymous work may at any time record, in records to be maintained by the Copyright Office for that purpose, a statement identifying one or more authors of the work; the statement shall also identify the person filing it, the nature of that person's interest, the source of the information recorded, and the particular work affected, and shall comply in form and content with requirements that the Register of Copyrights shall prescribe by regulation.

<408>

§ 408. Copyright registration in general

(a) Registration Permissive. — At any time during the subsistence of the first term of copyright in any published or unpublished work in which the copyright was secured before January 1, 1978, and during the subsistence of any copyright secured on or after that date, the owner of copyright or of any exclusive right in the work may obtain registration of the copyright claim by delivering to the Copyright Office the deposit specified by this section, together with the application and fee specified by sections 409 and 708. Such registration is not a condition of copyright protection.

(b) Deposit for Copyright Registration. — Except as provided by subsection (c), the material deposited for registration shall include —

(1) in the case of an unpublished work, one complete copy or phonorecord;

(2) in the case of a published work, two complete copies or phonorecords of the best edition;

(3) in the case of a work first published outside the United States, one complete copy or phonorecord as so published;

(4) in the case of a contribution to a collective work, one complete copy or phonorecord of the best edition of the collective work.

Copies or phonorecords deposited for the Library of Congress under section 407 may be used to satisfy the deposit provisions of this section, if they are accompanied by the prescribed application and fee, and by any additional identifying material that the Register may, by regulation, require. The Register shall also prescribe regulations establishing requirements under which copies or phonorecords acquired for the Library of Congress under subsection (e) of section 407, otherwise than by deposit, may be used to satisfy the deposit provisions of this section.

(c) Administrative Classification and Optional Deposit

================


<409>

§ 409. Application for copyright registration9

The application for copyright registration shall be made on a form prescribed by the Register of Copyrights and shall include —

(1) the name and address of the copyright claimant;

(2) in the case of a work other than an anonymous or pseudonymous work, the name and nationality or domicile of the author or authors, and, if one or more of the authors is dead, the dates of their deaths;

(3) if the work is anonymous or pseudonymous, the nationality or domicile of the author or authors;

(4) in the case of a work made for hire, a statement to this effect;

(5) if the copyright claimant is not the author, a brief statement of how the claimant obtained ownership of the copyright;

(6) the title of the work, together with any previous or alternative titles under which the work can be identified;

(7) the year in which creation of the work was completed;

(8) if the work has been published, the date and nation of its first publication;

(9) in the case of a compilation or derivative work, an identification of any preexisting work or works that it is based on or incorporates, and a brief, general statement of the additional material covered by the copyright claim being registered;

(10) in the case of a published work containing material of which copies are required by section 601 to be manufactured in the United States, the names of the persons or organizations who performed the processes specified by subsection (c) of section 601 with respect to that material, and the places where those processes were performed; and

(11) any other information regarded by the Register of Copyrights as bearing upon the preparation or identification of the work or the existence, ownership, or duration of the copyright.

If an application is submitted for the renewed and extended term provided for in section 304(a)(3)(A) and an original term registration has not been made, the Register may request information with respect to the existence, ownership, or duration of the copyright for the original term.
================


Is this relevant Tomi?
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #308 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 8:11pm »

Nobody here is even qualified to do the basic research on such a complicated case, I'll wager. Tomi, you talk about everything with great confidence and you are usually full of it. Why should this be any different? Now where did you get that estimate of the probable damages? From your vast experience in the art world?
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #309 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 8:16pm »

on Sep 30th, 2009, 7:59pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Jeddyhi, On this topic I know exactly what I say is correct. Yes, I've been through "the mill" in everything I'm saying here. No, I am not an attorney but I have worked with numerous ones regarding every aspect I relate here.


Then you might want to add this to your posts..IANAL...
Otherwise those that take your word as legal advice can turn around and sue you...Just gotta get legal for those little things like that...I have learned this from GPL infringement cases that I have done work for...Ask Sys next time you see him.. wink smiley

As DrDill said before if the LAP was the real deal Issac has no case because they are stolen documents....PACL has no case except for these are stolen documents and were not to be in the wild so that could stop production on things...But since they are still up one can assume thats not the case....
So IMHO and IANAL........
The person or group if they felt like suing AW and have the money to due so good luck to them..Anybody can sue anybody in the US...Look at the mcdonalds coffee incident that was even mocked on the Seinfield show....Will they win my educated guess would be no....They most likly would get laughed out of the court and might pay for wasting the courts time...AW could bring all the information of previous designs and elements to the LAP that were used and say that these designs exsisted and the LAP is not that original....Another thing is AW could say that its been abandoned and the copyrights holder only showed up because of their use of the LAP and are only after money....They could also claim the LAP copyright holders as criminals for hoaxing what they did and painting the copyright holders in a bad light so as to turn the tables on said copyright holders....Yes it could get real ugly thats for sure.....But there are several other possibilities that I won't go into.......They do not include winning at all..It would be a very very hard case......
« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2009, 8:25pm by Radi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #310 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 8:21pm »

Thanks Radi. I'm glad to see it's not lost on others that this imaginary copyright case has too many variables and too many unknowns to be sorted out by amateurs. It's a specious argument anyway, since the drone images and the lap are hoaxes, and there has been no such suit. End of story.
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #311 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 8:26pm »

on Sep 30th, 2009, 8:11pm, Double Nought Spy wrote:
Nobody here is even qualified to do the basic research on such a complicated case, I'll wager. Tomi, you talk about everything with great confidence and you are usually full of it. Why should this be any different? Now where did you get that estimate of the probable damages? From your vast experience in the art world?


The damages is part of the market value pertaining to the importance of that work to the value of the item.
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #312 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 8:28pm »

on Sep 30th, 2009, 8:26pm, tomi01uk wrote:
The damages is part of the market value pertaining to the importance of that work to the value of the item.



And you derived your multi-million dollar estimate how?
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #313 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 8:37pm »

on Sep 30th, 2009, 8:21pm, Double Nought Spy wrote:
Thanks Radi. I'm glad to see it's not lost on others that this imaginary copyright case has too many variables and too many unknowns to be sorted out by amateurs. It's a specious argument anyway, since the drone images and the lap are hoaxes, and there has been no such suit. End of story.


Oh yea way to many variables...I could not see AW paying off this person or group out of court...Its to big of a company with lots of money to waste time on a pay-out and criminal element...wink
Heres one Tomi and for fun look up IBM vs SCO...... wink
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #314 on: Sep 30th, 2009, 8:38pm »

on Sep 30th, 2009, 8:16pm, Radi wrote:
The person or group if they felt like suing AW and have the money to due so good luck to them..


You don't do this kind of case without a good NY law firm that specialises in Intellectual Rights. And if you had the copyright and AlienWare had the design..
you can bet your booty... you would have nice contingency case on offer smiley

Quote:
They most likly would get laughed out of the court and might pay for wasting the courts time...



No... you would have to meet the test for "frivilious lawsuit", but that would be far more technical in nature and pertain to defense issues, that the other party may raise when answering the lawsuit. Every good lawyer knows the tests that will be raised and how their clients will overcome those issues before bringing the lawsuit or they wouldn't risk the investment of time.

Quote:
AW could bring all the information of previous designs and elements to the LAP that were used and say that these designs exsisted and the LAP is not that original....



Impossible. The LAP is a creative work that stands on its own merit.

Quote:
Another thing is AW could say that its been abandoned and the copyrights holder only showed up because of their use of the LAP and are only after money....

Yes, that is the problem, but those issues will be considered and compensated from provided the copyright defense is made in a timely way, with "extinuating" circumstances providing sufficent reason for the delay in registration and defense. Like I said, because of this it is not a slam dunk anymore, but still enough to fight for.

Quote:
They could also claim the LAP copyright holders as criminals for hoaxing what they did and painting the copyright holders in a bad light so as to turn the tables on said copyright holders....Yes it could get real ugly thats for sure.....But there are several other possibilities that I won't go into.......They do not include winning at all..It would be a very very hard case......


It won't be decided on moral principles it will be decided on established law. It will be settled anyway. IMO
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