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 sticky  Author  Topic: Drone Discussion #10  (Read 36484 times)
Jeddyhi
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #435 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:23am »

on Oct 2nd, 2009, 01:20am, tomi01uk wrote:
My point about the LAP being used by AlienWare to market their computers has resulted in the following opinions which can not all be correct:

Their use is "derivative work".
Their use is a "parody". (a joke in itself)
The creators of the LAP were contracted by AlienWare.
The creators of the LAP have already "settled" with Alienware.
The creators of the LAP are benevolent souls who wish to donate this work to Dell computers.
The LAP is a government document as Isaac said it was.
The hoaxers are more interested in keeping their secret than profiting from their creation...

Now who is right?


Question for Tomi.......If you had created the LAP and were part of the drone hoax and Dell started using the Alien Language on their computers, how would you go about proving that you created it?

Since the work was submitted anonymously and touted as being Alien in origin, what do you think you could do to prove that you really created it and not someone else? With no registered copyright on file, the burden of proof would be on you to provide tangible evidence that you, and no one else created it. How would you, or whoever really created it, prove that in a court of law to the satisfaction of the court to rule in their favor?

Any Tom, Dick or Harry could make the claim. Proving it would another matter, no?

So someone with common sense who has actually worked on creating the LAP for the drone hoax would surely realize this. Compromise the hoax for a fleeting chance at sueing Dell.....or just let the hoax keep running?
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tommi01
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #436 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:39am »

on Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:21am, YourWorstNightmare wrote:
Wow, that is Substantive based on your say so? The others can provide documentation, can you? where is yours , what company, what court docket, They are verifiable, and their findings scientifically sound and even unchallenged such as at OMF and elsewhere G'day



You know what sys? I'm GRATEFUL you don't believe me. cool Any good lawyer from from an IPR firm can confirm what I say anyway.
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Sheepdog
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #437 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:45am »

If you got all the best IP lawyers the world offers and put them in a room “today”, could they add anything of value regarding the reality of Isaac et al?

I like Jeddyhi’s question to Tomi about proving ownership.
Maybe we can get off the endless “why this?, why that?”

Would the material have to have been known or used beforehand by verifiable sources?
One can easily predate files.
Fortune City and LMH (gaa…) would be key in this, I’d think.
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #438 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:48am »

on Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:23am, Jeddyhi wrote:
Question for Tomi.......If you had created the LAP and were part of the drone hoax and Dell started using the Alien Language on their computers, how would you go about proving that you created it?

Since the work was submitted anonymously and touted as being Alien in origin, what do you think you could do to prove that you really created it and not someone else? With no registered copyright on file, the burden of proof would be on you to provide tangible evidence that you, and no one else created it. How would you, or whoever really created it, prove that in a court of law to the satisfaction of the court to rule in their favor?

Any Tom, Dick or Harry could make the claim. Proving it would another matter, no?

So someone with common sense who has actually worked on creating the LAP for the drone hoax would surely realize this. Compromise the hoax for a fleeting chance at sueing Dell.....or just let the hoax keep running?


Funny, earlier today I was thinking about all this becoming similiar to the Alien Autopsy..
Where someone reading my posts about this decides to check out what I'm saying, realises I'm right, and starts trying to re-create the original work necessary to fool the Library of Congress that they were the creator of the original work.

Actually though, it's very simple to prove that you are the author of the original creation. Everyone has piece work of the final creation, early drafts, early drawings, all material that went into the final work must be submitted along with the final work.

Like I said, when there is a looming infringement issue ahead, you pay the extra money and someone will personally work though the qualifying process and materials needed to satisfy their opinion that you were the creator. A file date can be changed by setting a previous date into the computer, so this is not as valid as showing work in progress towards the final product.
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #439 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:51am »

on Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:48am, tomi01uk wrote:
Funny, earlier today I was thinking about all this becoming similiar to the Alien Autopsy..
Where someone reading my posts about this decides to check out what I'm saying, realises I'm right, and starts trying to re-create the original work necessary to fool the Library of Congress that they were the creator of the original work.

Actually though, it's very simple to prove that you are the author of the original creation. Everyone has piece work of the final creation, early drafts, early drawings, all material that went into the final work must be submitted along with the final work.

Like I said, when there is a looming infringement issue ahead, you pay the extra money and someone will personally work though the qualifying process and materials needed to satisfy their opinion that you were the creator. A file date can be changed by setting a previous date into the computer, so this is not as valid as showing work in progress towards the final product.


What? Your answers are almost always self serving. There are works out there that the LAP was most likely derived from. DrDil posted a good example.

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How would the creator prove that he created the LAP and not someone else? How could he prove that he didn't derive the concept from somewhere else? There is a ton of research concerning the LAP that could all be predated and used as evidence of creation? "Early drafts" could also be predated to appear like early drafts. The proof of creating the LAP and not someone else being the creator would be almost impossible. If you deny this, then your agenda is starting to show once again. One would have to prove they created it and submitted it to the public domain anonymously and then labeled it as Alien in origin. Any plaintiff, even the actual creator, would be giggled out of court. You know this as well as I do. Your argument is hollow and self serving. And monotonous.
« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2009, 09:10am by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #440 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:57am »

on Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:39am, tomi01uk wrote:
You know what sys? I'm GRATEFUL you don't believe me. cool Any good lawyer from from an IPR firm can confirm what I say anyway.


Lets ask the two infamous PIs if they covered this?
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #441 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:59am »

on Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:48am, tomi01uk wrote:
Actually though, it's very simple to prove that you are the author of the original creation. Everyone has piece work of the final creation, early drafts, early drawings, all material that went into the final work must be submitted along with the final work.

Is Library of Congress photo/CGI experts?
Is their decision open to question at later stages of litigation?
It'd be a hoot if no drafts or earlier pieces of work were saved.
Or lost.
Or Library of Congress was duped.
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #442 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 09:25am »

on Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:51am, Jeddyhi wrote:
What? Your answers are almost always self serving. There are works out there that the LAP was most likely derived from. DrDil posted a good example.



It would be very hard to show the ORIGINAL PROOF OF CONCEPT since all these other examples are clearly the ones that the LAP were derived from...
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And wouldn't you know it this was a software interface that controled different funtions on that ship...hehe wink
« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2009, 09:41am by Radi » User IP Logged

YourWorstNightmare
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #443 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 09:30am »

Yes Radi thesame hollywood shelf drawers and people....Perhaps she can get he Warners AW legal beagles to weigh in..She can't back up the case in the manner burdens of proof require.much less substantiate her own personal experiences or name one of thitrteen companies she tooted.., such a lucky number.Perhaps shes's gambling some take her attempts at a real inquiry and honest discussion..seriously.

I can find where the people behind shat moon hoax used a company to sue a dozen others for patent infringement and itself was a part of a very profitable investment group registerred in Texas.a convenient federal court venue for them...just to get the people they sued, like HP and IBM, to settle. It was unsuccesful..but others gamble and win. Maybe Todd..hes a lawyer..whats he think now..professionally..
In fact even Atto hosted that very same company behind Spaceheroes.org.. ..as he does a lot of that web hosting stuff..

Why he even claimed infringement himself at ATS. Nobody bougt it.. Lets not get into his direct connections with LEV

Here there no such infringement..It was all duly licensed and trademarked iits respective use ntellectual property..which AW has already admitted.

I certainly hope Tomi did not represent herself in court in her "case"..for indeed she would truly have a fool for a client.




« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2009, 09:47am by YourWorstNightmare » User IP Logged

tommi01
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #444 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 09:52am »

I suggest you leave these worries, concerns and extreme conclusions to the people qualified to make these decisions at the Library of Congress.

And while you're at it, try to figure out what a creative work is in copyright terms.. that would be helpful. smiley

edit to add: FYI Vector circular brushes have nothing to do with or take away from the LAP being an original creative work. Anyone who really created it, will have no problems providing proof with their submission. They will work with the creator to assure that.

« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2009, 10:43am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

YourWorstNightmare
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #445 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 10:20am »

Ouch, he hit a nerve..At leats he is familiar with Reliable information, even if its the "gummint " and where to get reliable information unlike your say so's..Tomi. You havent added one iota..
And Which like your litigation of thirteen companies, Thirteen...yes.. ..which is the number of a Bakers Dozen, not really 12..or the Building floor not there either....Nice touch.
Give us something that is there and germane..something "substantive", that unlike your position, is there, someone can stand on and not run around like a three legged Giraffe.
It must be terrrible not having any proof..cool Take it to Lourdes in France, perhaps it will grow a new..leg
This describes your "case"
« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2009, 10:28am by YourWorstNightmare » User IP Logged

Radi
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #446 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 10:48am »

on Oct 2nd, 2009, 09:52am, tomi01uk wrote:
I suggest you leave these worries, concerns and extreme conclusions to the people qualified to make these decisions at the Library of Congress.

And while you're at it, try to figure out what a creative work is in copyright terms.. that would be helpful. smiley

edit to add: FYI Vector circular brushes have nothing to do with or take away from the LAP being an original creative work. Anyone who really created it, will have no problems providing proof with their submission. They will work with the creator to assure that.


And AW will have no problem showing theirs...Also like the SCC episode when they used LAP designs.....
Just circles and lines connected together...just like the LAP is an artist representation of old sci-fi and tech circles..
The AW art is also the same.... wink
Baseless and empty arguments once again...
« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2009, 10:56am by Radi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #447 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 10:54am »

on Oct 2nd, 2009, 10:48am, Radi wrote:
Well guess I will pass this info along so when you file a claim they will be ready.. laugh laugh


The problem for who ever did the LAP to assert their copyrights is that they/he/she needs to defend it.

Copyright law frowns on opportunists who allow the illegitimate use of their creative work to go uncontested to the point where the use has greater market value before attempting to assert their rights.

Because this is not being done, there will be a gray area for Dell to use in defense. IMO
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #448 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 11:05am »

on Oct 2nd, 2009, 10:54am, tomi01uk wrote:
The problem for who ever did the LAP to assert their copyrights is that they/he/she needs to defend it.

Copyright law frowns on opportunists who allow the illegitimate use of their creative work to go uncontested to the point where the use has greater market value before attempting to assert their rights.

Because this is not being done, there will be a gray area for Dell to use in defense. IMO


One more time with the sand then I am done..TOMI IF YOU ARE SO CONCERNED WITH THIS.....WHICH YOU SEEM TO BE IN YOUR TRANSPARENT WAY....FIND THE CREATOR OF THE LAP AND TELL IT TO THEM OR CONTACT THEM AND GIVE THEM THE INFO INSTEAD OF POSTING YOUR BLATHER FILLING THE MASSES WITH BS MUCH LIKE YOUR FRIEND LEV HAS IN THE PAST.......
YOU ARE POSTING USELESS BS FOR PAGES NOW THAT HAVE NO WEIGHT IN GOLD OR HORSE DROPPINGS...THE ONLY PERSON YOU SHOULD BE RELAYING THIS INFO TO IS THE CREATOR OF THE LAP.....PEROID............ rolleyes tongue kiss
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #10
« Reply #449 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 11:13am »

on Oct 2nd, 2009, 09:52am, tomi01uk wrote:
edit to add: FYI Vector circular brushes have nothing to do with or take away from the LAP being an original creative work. Anyone who really created it, will have no problems providing proof with their submission. They will work with the creator to assure that.


Once again you are wrong. Suppose I make up a song and my friend hears me singing it. Two years later I hear my song on the radio and my friend is the credited song writer. He heard my lyrics, wrote them down and got a copyright for them. I pull out an old yellowed piece of napkin where I wrote the words down originally. Guess what, my friend retains copyright ownership because I can't prove if I wrote the words down yesterday on an old napkin or years ago on a fresh napkin. The first party to copyright has the ball in their court. It is one thing to sue for copyright infringement (meaning somebody is violating your existing copyright) but it is an altogether different story to say "Hey, thats my original concept and work that somebody registered before I could."

The burden then falls upon the plaintiff in a such a case to prove that the Library of Congress was wrong in issuing a copyright. They must show beyond doubt that they had created the work prior to the copyright being issued. Also in question would be the fact of the material being uploaded to the internet, offered freely to the public and proclaimed to be of ET origin. This does not sound like the actions of one concerned with copyright ownership and would surely weigh heavily on the decision making process.

There are two years of LAP research to consider. The LAP has spread to a lot of hands. All the research could be predated or made to look like original concept drafts.

In all actuality, AW owns a copyright that would be hard to dispute. The hoaxers and/or LAP creator realizes this even as you do not.

If you knew half of what you think you know, you would still be one brick shy of a full load.
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