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 sticky  Author  Topic: Drone Discussion #11  (Read 2519 times)
DrDil
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #720 on: Jul 17th, 2010, 4:58pm »

Hi Tomi,

I wrote the following a little while back on another forum which might help (although I doubt it as it's purely my own opinion grin):

Quote:

For what it’s worth I also agree with the US model of Ufology that you describe but as for Vallee I feel that the differences between his way of thinking compared to the US Ufologists was due in part to a cultural mindset, I feel this is also evident in the very distinct differences between the European and the US approach to the UFO phenomenon. Sure there’s quite a bit of cross-over (mainly from the nuts & bolts US Ufology) and this has become more apparent in the last decade or so but the respective mindsets are –in my opinion- massively different, which means the way the phenomenon is approached also differs, and ultimately so do any conclusions that are drawn from the data.

And as for Keel, I feel he was a much misunderstood artist and perhaps better described a demonologist rather than a Ufologist per se. I also believe that he was an extremely competent & intriguing storyteller but that his musings were unashamedly embellished and subjective to him (his mischievous bent is evident in his prose). I also believe that he tried to convey this exact sentiment in the Mothman prophecies when he describes an account he heard that transpired was actually him and involved the collapse of the bridge, all totally unfounded except his actual appearance at someone’s door. But when viewed within the cultural context of the day and also with the benefit of hindsight the event can be recognised for exactly what it was.



Cheers.
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #721 on: Jul 17th, 2010, 5:01pm »

on Jul 17th, 2010, 4:33pm, Icarus99 wrote:
<snip>

We watch a show made especially for us to watch and some get more from it than do others.

<snip>


But just occasionally some of us catch a glimpse of the strings….. wink
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #722 on: Jul 17th, 2010, 5:20pm »

Yeah, those strings that vibrate differently for everyone.. tongue It's a weird world string theory or not.. wink

Thank you both for introducing me to Fort and Keel.

@drdil, I'm still not perceiving a difference between the US vr the European way of figuring ufo's. Maybe because I've no insight into the background or current players. I've just never noticed a separation in perceptions or considerations.

Came across this article today and I wonder if any of this factors:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/07/15/venus_envy
« Last Edit: Jul 17th, 2010, 5:54pm by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #723 on: Jul 17th, 2010, 6:31pm »

I just wanted to take an a-ha moment here to say that I am extremely proud to be an active participant in this and other UFO Casebook drone-related threads as I am so much more a better and enriched individual because of it.

The last 4 - 5 pages here are awesome in their depth and personal commitment to finding the truth, no matter what the outcome may be.

You guys (and gals) are great. cheesy
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #724 on: Jul 17th, 2010, 11:32pm »

That being or device or force that pulls the strings becomes immediately aware when it is observed and even this observation is incorporated into the show.
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #725 on: Jul 17th, 2010, 11:34pm »

We come full circle again..its exactly as Bennet said..and even prior to that some interesting comments made in the Keel Matter..If anyone can be seen as an established stooge of the power structure as is it would be LMH and company..II believe Valle saw that too..
Hollywwod and Authors canvass us regularly for new angles as they do the scientific literature..

And Dr.Dil you are spot on..
I found this on the Mothan porphecies some time ago and had shared it with Lev..when I returned from my hiatus..as he was an avid follower , and we can say advocate of that myth as the Drone..as well.


http://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v49/ss020505.htm#letters
harry lime disclaimer saucer smear

The semi-mysterious HARRY LIME writes:

"Here are the curious exact 'disclaimer' words from the copyright page of the new edition of 'The Mothman Prophecies' (Tot Books paperback, February 2002): 'This is a work of fiction. All the characters and events portrayed in this work are either products of the author's imagination or are used fictionally.' This is a far cry from the usual 'any resemblance to any real person, living or dead, is purely coincidental' disclaimer'.

"The original edition of the book published in 1975 was presented as 100% non-fiction. I don't know about the 1991 reissue you mentioned (by the way, the Tot edition carries a 1991 copyright notice). It's also worth noting that Keel's afterword written for the Tot edition and dated August 2001 includes these lines: 'I warned Sheriff Johnson and Mary Hyre that this was folklore in the making. Gray Barker did try to turn it into a celestial fairy tale, making me decide to write this book and tell the truth as it happened.' Hmmmm... 'a work of fiction' tells 'the truth'..."


How some of these Bizzare Crowley, General Electric, Secret orders..etc thought streams develop elsewhere..
** http://tinyurl.com/2w5cppt

These streams cascade into nooks and crannies as the water seeks its own level..
CONSTANT REVISIONISM IN THE FORMER..BUT THIS LAD AT REDICE DID HIS HOMEWORK
BUT PERFECTLY IN LINE WITH BENNETS ARTICLE ..WHETHER ONE CALLS IT A MEME OR MYTH IN MAKING OR AS I MENTIONED YEARS AGO..(TIME DOES FLY) A POLYMORPHIC VIRAL CAMPAIGN WHICH LOTS OF PEOPLE CAN CATCH A RIDE OR ADAPT THEIR PRODUCT MOVIE OR BELIEF SYSTEM..

DIMENSIONAL/EXTRA REALITY PORTALS (JUST LIKE WHITLEY SAYS!!)ARE QUITE ACCEPTED BY VALLET AND KEEL..NEW WORLD ORDER SUBTHEMES RUN WITH GENERAL ELECTRIC AND THEIR CORPORATE LOGOS LIKE MITHRA..GOLDEN BOY WITH SNAKE ON HEAD ..SUCH A HODGE PODGE ..

BENNET WAS RIGHT ..IT HAD A LITTLE SOMETHING FOR EVERYONE..SO I SEE NO INCOMPATABILITY HAVING SATANIC GROUPS AND MASS CONSCIOUSNESS CEREMONIES AT ROSWELL..NWO MILITRAY DIS INFO GROUPS.. DARK POWERS SYMBOLISM ETC..ITS WHAT WE'VE COME TO EXPECT..


BY THE NINES..INDEED WITH A LITTLE POETIC LICENSE..NO PROBLEM WITH INSERTING MOTHMAN , RED EYES OF TERMINATOR. LIZARDS, WHATEVER IS DESIRED..GRINNING MAN OR THE FELLA WITH THE BE SEEING YOU IN TIME..JUST LIKE INTERCHANGEABLE MOVIE SETS AND ALL TOO CONVENIENT TV SOUNDBYTES TO JUSTIFY WARS

FROM BENNET:
In the case of SERPO and CHAD the purpose is to test belief systems as one would test an electronic circuit. In the previous literary world (now gone from us as Nineveh and Tyre) before cyber, this kind of thing was known as "faction." Given Web power, this has now become mythological engineering of a kind we have not seen before. The designers are interested in launching a Matrix-style information meme in order to form new patterns and programmes of belief-manipulation gaming. We should not be deceived; SERPO was a very crude prototype, CHAD, by comparison is a very advanced multi-media operation, and it is highly probable that there is much more of this kind of thing to come.

@Lev you will absolutely love Sorcerers Apprentice..



** Mod edit to shrink URL
« Last Edit: Jul 18th, 2010, 06:01am by DrDil » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #726 on: Jul 18th, 2010, 03:35am »

There are several Bennetts I'm finding.. Colin, Jeffrey?

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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #727 on: Jul 18th, 2010, 03:56am »

on Jul 17th, 2010, 11:32pm, Icarus99 wrote:
That being or device or force that pulls the strings becomes immediately aware when it is observed and even this observation is incorporated into the show.


Like quantum particles probably..
There definately is something strange outside the ordinary that each of us may have experienced.. I love science because it gives us a knowledge boundry but now there must be subsystems.. possibly. Recent experiments have demonstrated, entangled particles know when they will be measured in the future. Boundries in science have radically changed.

for instance:

http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/08/28/1335203/Entanglement-Could-Be-a-Deterministic-Phenomenon
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #728 on: Jul 18th, 2010, 05:58am »

on Jul 18th, 2010, 03:35am, tomi01uk wrote:
There are several Bennetts I'm finding.. Colin, Jeffrey?

Quote:
Meme Wars: We Have an Agenda


A Fortean Essay in Story Technology by Colin Bennett

For Jacques Vallee

"Bennett should be hung" (Bruce Maccabee)


"Yes, both SERPO and the CHAD game are "phony," but to leave it at that is to misunderstand the game that is being played. As the Alchemist said to his Apprentice: "the game may be fixed, but it's the only game in town."
"Measuring media by media is a the only sacred mission left to us"

The above are said to be quotations from a lost work of one Augustus Codex, once described by Fulcanelli the Alchemist as "the Imposture Magus of Grenoble." Codex, a metaphysician sworn to poverty, died in a Paris estaminet in 2007 whilst taking notes on Borges' story Tlön, Uqbar, Obis Tertius. It is said by many a heresiarch that he was the only man to solve the riddle behind the physicist Enrico Fermi's celebrated question "where are they?" by answering "the alien is under construction..."

<snip>

The Caret Programme

In June of 2007 there appeared a web site http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/ apparently authored by one Isaac Caret. He claimed to have worked for the U.S. Department of Defence from 1984 to 1987 in a laboratory in Palo Alto, California. This site contained pictures of an extraordinary machine hovering above power lines. The pictures were more clear than most UFO pictures, and a short video soon made its appearance. Since the machine looked most unearthly (see above) and could not be verified as a piece of known human technology, there was much discussion about these photographs, and this continues throughout the Web world.

Linda Moulton Howe http://www.earthfiles.com/ in her usual thorough manner, has collected a mass of data concerning witnesses and origins of these spectacular photographs. She continues to update this information. Go Caret Videos on Google for good selection of pictures and videos.


Full article here



Quote:
Meme Wars: We Have an Agenda


A Fortean Essay in Story Technology by Colin Bennett

Part Two

Weaponising the Big Sell: the Product is a State of Mind


Thus do stories like the Roswell “event,” the jailing of Paris Hilton, and CHAD move into the infrastructure of perception. They move like Fort's "damned" events and the fairy-children of Plato’s story-shadows: some are almost solid, others quite vaporous; yet others move in our changing perceptions as we verily perceive, indeed. Like a newspaper under heavy rain, all UFO forms are shot through with the amnesia of decay; some stories remain almost complete; others suffer different rates of deterioration, remaining as half-recalled hallucinations.

Using these ideas and principles, it is possible to construct a kind of dialectical-penetration software using CHAD-like images just as high-powered salesmen do it with hard goods, but on the imagination

The originators of both SERPO and CHAD want an audience to imagine. They want us to process these stories using an array of story-images as designer-consumables. They are playing with what what Jung called Archetypes. These are the controlling centres of all psychologies. Depending on the array and patterning of archetypes and the strength of the conditioning. it is possible to make someone fall in love with Hitler, kill their own mother, or even possibly write the plays of Shakespeare, though not necessarily in that order.

In this case however there is no physical product; the product is a state of mind


Full article here
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #729 on: Jul 18th, 2010, 08:38am »

Ok I read both thoroughly now. He is quite a writer. And a thinker. Plus a futurist to some degree. He very eloguently describes the grab quality of the drone saga. He challenges one's thinking. But he doesn't offer an explaination, but he provokes far reaching speculation. Thanks for introducing me to Colin Bennett. I'm sure I'm missing a lot here as the article was very deep. I didn't miss the relevence of the article to modern ufology, politics or any aspect of our lives. And he sure has a way with words smiley

Interesting that one of the premises in both articles would be an advance of sophisticated memes following what he called Chad and Serpo. Instead we had RT and the Pickles.. A NY City sideshow.

Historical facts and predicting the future would possibly be more accurately told in the context of a Jerry Lewis movie as he suggests..

« Last Edit: Jul 18th, 2010, 09:13am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #730 on: Jul 18th, 2010, 10:24am »

I think there is a psychology about the need to believe, although if there is such a need it wasn’t discussed much when I was a student. The physical needs were the obvious, food, water, breathing etc. the psychological needs (more specifically the ways in which these needs were met or satisfied) were the basis for most of the psychosis responsible for abnormal behavior. Nothing wrong with a psychological need if it’s met in a socially acceptable manner. Deviations from normal define the various behavioral abnormalities.

I understand the need to believe in religion. One author even proposed an inherent mechanism in the brain, like a sub program, allowing even primitive cultures to believe in and worship deities or a god, as a cultural survival mechanism. I suppose at some point in the evolutionary process the chimp like prehuman started to contemplate his own existence and wonder about the lifeless form of a fallen enemy or pray; wondering where the life went? He then needed a mechanism to cope with the stark realization of his own fragile existence.

But the need to believe was probably best understood by BT Barnum and seems akin to or even the same as the god component of the brain if that does exists. This need to believe (NTB) seems even more apparent in the field of ufology. I wasn’t really aware of its extent until surfing the UFO bbs and of course the Drone hoax. But I also noticed another aspect described by someone else as the Bulletin Board junkie. And while the description seems self evident and is not necessarily confined to UFO it appears to be real and separate from using the bbs and the internet for information sharing or entertainment. I guess like anything else over indulgence becomes an addiction i.e. overeating, alcohol etc. I know there is probably much said about internet porn, but this is not what I’m seeing here as this would still fit in the usual dysfunctional sexual categories, although there was no mention of the internet in the text books I had.


There is probably a wealth of research on the NTB and the internet bbs and even UFO bbs. I just haven’t researched it but in light of the recent sudden shut down of the MUFON bb previously mentioned here, a rare experimental opportunity was provided to observe the behavior and trauma of the those bulletin board junkies (BBJ) most engrossed and most adversely affected. Only the neediest seemed compelled to respond. (I know,not all would be BBJ) It was almost humorous to watch them scramble as they feverously sought their daily fix. The panic was palpable until it was announced that they would form their own board and equally as palpable the collective sigh of relief.

One poster in particular provides a summation of the NTB in a single post after expressing grief in a previous post. I find it interesting and as representative of NTB and the BBJ syndrome as there could possibly be!

I'm not suggesting this as applicable to anyone here but rather as introspection into our own insights especially concerning the motivations of hoaxers and groups such as DRT.

Parenthesis mine for clarity

“I just want to apologize to everybody for coming here(OMF) and being so negative but that forum (MUFON) meant a lot to me. I looked forward to posting on it everyday. It was a major part of my life and now it is gone. I had a lot of friends there and now they are gone. I do not have any friends here and so I am gone. I feel like an outcast. Sorry to have bothered y'all.”
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #731 on: Jul 18th, 2010, 11:11am »

on Jul 18th, 2010, 10:24am, Gort wrote:
I think there is a psychology about the need to believe, although if there is such a need it wasn’t discussed much when I was a student. The physical needs were the obvious, food, water, breathing etc. the psychological needs (more specifically the ways in which these needs were met or satisfied) were the basis for most of the psychosis responsible for abnormal behavior. Nothing wrong with a psychological need if it’s met in a socially acceptable manner. Deviations from normal define the various behavioral abnormalities.

I understand the need to believe in religion. One author even proposed an inherent mechanism in the brain, like a sub program, allowing even primitive cultures to believe in and worship deities or a god, as a cultural survival mechanism. I suppose at some point in the evolutionary process the chimp like prehuman started to contemplate his own existence and wonder about the lifeless form of a fallen enemy or pray; wondering where the life went? He then needed a mechanism to cope with the stark realization of his own fragile existence.

But the need to believe was probably best understood by BT Barnum and seems akin to or even the same as the god component of the brain if that does exists. This need to believe (NTB) seems even more apparent in the field of ufology. I wasn’t really aware of its extent until surfing the UFO bbs and of course the Drone hoax. But I also noticed another aspect described by someone else as the Bulletin Board junkie. And while the description seems self evident and is not necessarily confined to UFO it appears to be real and separate from using the bbs and the internet for information sharing or entertainment. I guess like anything else over indulgence becomes an addiction i.e. overeating, alcohol etc. I know there is probably much said about internet porn, but this is not what I’m seeing here as this would still fit in the usual dysfunctional sexual categories, although there was no mention of the internet in the text books I had.


There is probably a wealth of research on the NTB and the internet bbs and even UFO bbs. I just haven’t researched it but in light of the recent sudden shut down of the MUFON bb previously mentioned here, a rare experimental opportunity was provided to observe the behavior and trauma of the those bulletin board junkies (BBJ) most engrossed and most adversely affected. Only the neediest seemed compelled to respond. (I know,not all would be BBJ) It was almost humorous to watch them scramble as they feverously sought their daily fix. The panic was palpable until it was announced that they would form their own board and equally as palpable the collective sigh of relief.

One poster in particular provides a summation of the NTB in a single post after expressing grief in a previous post. I find it interesting and as representative of NTB and the BBJ syndrome as there could possibly be!

I'm not suggesting this as applicable to anyone here but rather as introspection into our own insights especially concerning the motivations of hoaxers and groups such as DRT.

Parenthesis mine for clarity

“I just want to apologize to everybody for coming here(OMF) and being so negative but that forum (MUFON) meant a lot to me. I looked forward to posting on it everyday. It was a major part of my life and now it is gone. I had a lot of friends there and now they are gone. I do not have any friends here and so I am gone. I feel like an outcast. Sorry to have bothered y'all.”

Excellent post Gort!! User Image

Whilst I realise it wasn’t really the point of your theorising I still found the following quite profound and certainly worth repeating:

Quote:

I suppose at some point in the evolutionary process the chimp like prehuman started to contemplate his own existence and wonder about the lifeless form of a fallen enemy or pray; wondering where the life went? He then needed a mechanism to cope with the stark realization of his own fragile existence.


Cheers. smiley
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #732 on: Jul 18th, 2010, 11:41am »

Quote:
Very strange! I'd love to say it's "alien", but who knows? Could be military too. A drone? Good video!

http://www.ufocasebook.com/2010/ny071610.html
Just thought I'd throw that in there, even though the commenter meant the military-type (but then some other commenter started a mini-debate about it).
« Last Edit: Jul 18th, 2010, 11:43am by CA519705950 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #733 on: Jul 18th, 2010, 11:51am »

Charles Fort, H. P. Lovecraft, John Keel, Jacques Vallee they all glimpsed not only the strings, but what was operating the strings. The human mind creates a cocoon for itself from what may be just outside waiting. The truth for the chickens is the fox. We are a conditioned species and our concept of truth is the soft, warm blanket of that conditioning. Not only is a show presented to us, but we are encouraged to partake of that show. We do so and we call it life.
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xx Re: Drone Discussion #11
« Reply #734 on: Jul 18th, 2010, 12:05pm »

Somewhere between Gort and Icarus I think my perspective is on this. Life is a journey, reality is inside out. We don't know all the answers and never will but the ones we can find will show the other side of logic in our brains is just as important. A scientist here in London once told me his theory is that the more developed the human brain became the more man was able to appreciate this essence or force. Whatever it is.

edit to add: the more they find out the more cosmologists these days are having a hard time getting past "the grand tinkerer". Sir Martin Rees explains here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-371805697706424951#
« Last Edit: Jul 18th, 2010, 1:06pm by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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