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woodgnome49
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #727 on: Jul 16th, 2006, 12:41pm »

As for the video evidence it is becoming harder for the government
to keep its secrets and people are all armed with cameras and
video equipment.

The government is faced with the inevitable disclosure of these
things to the general public and are frantic to find ways to prevent
this from happening. It is no longer possible to arbitrarily state there is nothing there when we all can see there is. They canít take the cameras away and they cant stop it from being seen on the internet and TV.

I suspect this is a problem the government is attempting to stave off as long as possible. It may be too late though and so far out of their
control they will have to respond or be found wanting by the public.

We know they are deceiving us and continue to do so.

We will want answers that make since and have a decided benefit
to our society overall. We will not accept anything less than a full
disclosure and any attempt to obscure the truth after the fact will
cause many to demand investigations and penalties to be dealt out
for any who were not altruistic in their motives. The aliens are not likely to appear on the White house lawn . We would destroy any craft that made the mistake of violating that protected space. As for doing so anywhere else I also think this unlikely. They have not done so in the past couple hundred years so it is a good bet they will not do so now.

The abduction reports alone are a pattern of events that would
make any government official worried as to what is happening and why.

The aspect of technology that far outstrips our own, would cause
fear in any branch of the military. I feel it would be the highest
priority for any government aware of these facts to investigate
and attempt to duplicate this technology in order to defend against
such a threat.

To say that there are no UFOs and stand on a position that there is
nothing to fear from objects that canít exist is a blatant lie!

The public sees these things and reports their encounters and
abductions. The government is just ignoring them.

My theory is premised on our descendants returning to attempt to
repair errors in our choices and prevent the sequence of events
that progressed to the undesirable end described. They have
continued to visit us but now appear to be focusing on the retrieval
of genetic materials.

By all reports the attempts at altering our social development have been unable to alter the future. The continuing abductions fly in the face of any assertion to the contrary.

They are continuing to manipulate us and assert their wish to help
us but the added aspect of genetic manipulation and retrieval
suggests an alternate purpose to what the ďaliensĒ are attempting.


They appear and disappear so quickly there is no way for the
government or the military to counter their actions. They move at
such great speeds and with such extreme maneuverability they
appear to defy what we know is natural law. They take people
without interference or even discovery till too late. They seam to
be omnipotent in this respect and indefensible against.

The government having begun by denying the truth and asserting the
nonexistence of aliens and UFOs cannot now recant and disclose
that they knew all along. To do so would undermine their authority
and call into question their honesty.

We would demand answers and action.

The government knows that a race of beings is able to produce
technology that surpasses anything we can create. This would
render any defense we could muster useless. This seems plausible
to me as a reason for their continued denial of the subject.

Revealing this would cause hysteria and fear to grip the public and
the government would be called upon to defend us regardless of its
ability to do so. The government has been covering it up to prevent
public hysteria and at the same time is working tirelessly to
reproduce an advanced level of technology in an attempt to prepare
for a conflict they see as inevitable.

As long as they foster the belief that the government is
unconcerned they avoid open conflict with these entities.

If the aliens are monitoring our communications, technical
advances, scientific advances and public transmissions the
campaign of denial would serve to cover up the attempts at
advancing our technology to rival their own. The government may be
hoping to lull the aliens into believing that they are not threatened. †

But are we able to threaten them?

The greatest advantage we could create would be to reach a level
of technology advanced enough to defeat them with out their becoming aware of it, however unlikely this eventuality is.

President Reagan attempted to tell us what he knew about aliens.
In fact His comments and his proposal to build an antiballistic
missile defense system based in outer space is the basis for my assertions and comments regarding why the government is continuing the coverup.

the problem we face with these intruders and the mistrust we have for our government do not bode well for our eventual understanding of these things.

Still I am ever hopeful that the truth will be found and the answers will be revealed.

Woody
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #728 on: Jul 16th, 2006, 1:33pm »

Great post woody!
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #729 on: Jul 16th, 2006, 1:45pm »

Yes indeed. You are an asset here Woody.

HJ
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #730 on: Jul 16th, 2006, 3:21pm »

Thank you both QOH and HJ

I am pleased you find my thoughts and ramblings entertaining and worthy of praise.
I hope to have some discussion and feed back from the others of this group but as yet the audience is strangely quiet.

I was delighted with the post from Diamond. It gave me a chance to revisit and reexamine my own beliefs and theories. I was hoping for more of the like.

Speculations, alternate ideas, thoughts I have not considered, viewpoints that may reveal flaws in my reasoning.

As I said Iíve been part of many ufo discussion groups. QOH will understand when I say in all of these different groups there are people that are fakes, charlatans, misguided adolescents, people attempting to be someone or something they are not, disturbed misguided abductees, religious zealots seeking a following, conspiracy freaks that think they are the target of government surveillance ( My brother was one of these) self proclaimed oracles and a small contingent of true seekers.

It can sometimes be very distressing to know that so many people are using these forums for purposes that are not a true investigation and understanding of ufos and aliens.

My hope is that I am perceived as a true seeker. I am willing to lay my theory before anyone and help with the dissection of it. I have only my own thoughts and the evidence I have collected. My conjectures and conclusions are as tenuous and unsupported as tissue paper. I hope someone will help me find where I may have missed something. I too question what I have contrived here.

QOH I understand you have been abducted. could I ask you to relate your abduction experience and attempt to find contradictions in that experience that disputes or corroborates my contentions. I would enjoy hearing how and why if anything you experienced conforms to or contends with what I have conjectured.

Thanks again for your praise.

Woody
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #731 on: Jul 16th, 2006, 10:53pm »

Welcome and well met FireCirc

I understand your apprehension. It is obvious to me that you are not new to these discussion groups.

I will attempt to maintain an inoffensive tone to my comments but please understand I have no personal knowledge of these phenomena. I can not speak from experience and thus have no grasp of the focus for your arguments. I can only answer as a mundane poorly gifted completely blind (psychically) seeker for truth.
I can only report from the realm of painful truths and hard reality.

This is not to say that unexplained things or seemingly miraculous occurrences have not happened to me. They have!

I spent my youth growing up during the 60s and 70s, My first ufo experience of note was in 69 and my first out of body experience was in 75. I have to admit the out of body thing was drug induced but the experience was as close as I can come to what I have heard and read others express on these forums.

Having given you this background I will attempt to interpret and respond to your comments.

Please forgive me for breaking your statements into smaller sections but I feel I can better discuss things if I can isolate specific sentences and work through each statement as stand alone comments.

QUOTE
I have had many psychic level experiences. I am not the type to draw conclusions about the numinous. In most cases, acknowledging the numinousity is all that is 'known'... if 'known' is what you can call it.

I am not sure what you are saying here. I understand the definition of numinous is ďSpiritually elevatedĒ. Are you saying you are not attempting to draw conclusions about the spiritually elevated? Or is it a jibe at those who profess to spiritual elevation?

Strange preamble.


QUOTE
But, isn't that these experiences are unknown, secret, hidden from us, lacking material evidence, not understood in many respects, exemplify otherness, strangeness, are weird, shadowy, not concrete... the very essence of what we are dealing with?


Yep there are a lot of strange things out there.

QUOTE
"Our sense perceptions are secondary to something we think of as reality. We usually assign reality to being 'out there'. But truthfully, our only primary original experience...experience that is not interpreted by the physical brain...is 'seen' by our psychic vision. Psychic vision originates 'within' and is direct. Psychic vision is usually constrewed as originating in the 'unconscious'...that part of what we know but that we don't know we know."




Our senses are the only way we have to perceive reality. therefore they are primary not secondary to our understanding of reality.
You and others with gifts beyond the rest of us mortals may try to convince us of other realities but there is no way for us to perceive them thus rendering them of no value to those of us which can not experience them.
If I donít know something I donít know that I know it. Very insightful.
Lets continue.

QUOTE
"We live in a time of extreme 'alienation'. Through the processes of externalized acculturation we have put up barriers to the full expression of our humanity. These parts, then, which must be expressed, have to be expressed covertly. As these alienated parts of our collective human nature are pushed into the shadows they may acquire lives of their own as we try to disown what we see as unacceptable or unattainable within ourselves as a collective species. I am not saying that we should express all of our primitive and survivalist instincts in socially incompatible ways, but we could take ownership of our great potentialities. "




Lets see if I can translate this into some thing that makes sense.
first two sentences. people feel alienated in general. Through a process of (Externalized) to give external existence to. (Acculturation) The modification of a primitive culture by an advanced one we have built barriers to our full humanity. this makes us tell lies.
But we donít have to lie we can accept responsibility and seek to better ourselves.

OK I agree we donít have to lie and to seek to better yourself is admirable.
I only wonder why you choose to use such obtuse words and couch things in so much rhetoric when stating things clearly would be so much more effective.
All you do with your unnecessary complication of these things is cause confusion and misunderstanding.


QUOTE
Each of the species of alien invaders have comparable qualities to human qualities we do not fully understand to be within our own selves. What I am saying, is that we, individually are not helpless and ignorant to the nature of the alien presence. It is our future and past selves. It truly transcends space and time. It is what floats eerily on the edges of our consciousness just out of reach.




I assume you are attempting to describe some quality we all have. One of connection through or within the multiple dimensions something that is perceptible. something that connects us to the aliens and to the multiple others that are ourselves in other realities. Or you are speaking gibberish.

I can agree that we may have some tenuous connection between our selves in other realities. A popular SiFi movie The One with Chet Lee has that as part of its premiss. I see a potential for this to have some truth.
Still the way you have chosen to express yourself and the choice of phrasing is distressingly similar to others I have spoken with in the past. Sadly they were not pleased with my assessment of their arguments and assertions.


QUOTE
It is real, very real, even more real than our time driven consiousness we think of as the material world. It is the embodiment of our direst fears and dearest hopes. We must embrace it. We must transform it from within, individually, and create the future, the humanity we most want, here, now.




Again I can only surmise you are speaking of something we all have and are not consciously aware of. I understand your desire to give us this. What you describe is tantamount to a near total state of holy spiritual grace of mind and body.
Sadly we poor subhumans have no capacity to understand what you speak of.
We are so closed off and obscured from the truth that we will never understand.
So speak to us as if we were children for we can never understand your brilliance. Stand tall in your ďHIGHĒ place. The View must be magnificent from up there.


QUOTE
I have read the last few posts through this lense and have felt like I have understood a little something new. Even with all the other manifestations of the alien phenomenon, this may at least be something we can learn from the struggle.



I am pleased that what I and others here have said was helpful and informative to you.
I hope you will continue to learn and understand that it is not always best to use the biggest words you know to compose your thoughts. to do so makes it difficult for those of us who do not have an encyclopedic knowledge or collage education to understand what it is you are saying.
Simple is better in every case.
As for my proclivity with words I attempt to use the most accurate term where you attempt to use the most obscure or convoluted. It can be entertaining to some as an exorcize in solipsism or obfuscation but does not serve the greater good of discovering the truth that most of us here seek. Please talk down to me in the future I am always willing to submit myself to common terminology to communicate.

Having chastised you I will retire to ponder what inspired you to compose this document and why did you send it to me?

You must not have read my post about how I will not suffer fools.
I thought I was clear. If you did not read that post understand


I am no fool and will not suffer others who act as if they were. I also will not abide charlatans or frauds. I will not pull punches or mince words. If you wish to talk to me please be courteous and respectful of my right to have an opinion.
You can call me all the names you want but leave my family out of it.

I will discuss anything you want but be prepared to defend what you say and not react as if I were attacking you personally when I call into question any of your assertions.
Try to speak clearly and form coherent sentences and never contradict yourself. i will jump on that like a spider on a fly.
Do all these things and we will get along well.

Woody

PS: I look forward to the blast of indignation or even affirmation.
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woodgnome49
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #732 on: Jul 17th, 2006, 01:15am »

It is interesting that you choose a word that few if any might understand as the point of contention you wish to address with me.

This is curious!

What did you hope to accomplish by calling into question my definition of this particular word?

In fact i had no prior knowledge of the meaning of this word and had to resort to my dictionary to attempt to understand what you said.


Apparently you did not expect me to use a dictionary and actually try to understand what you said.

Sorry you were wrong!


I understand much more than you might dare to admit !


So my warning to you is quit wile you are ahead as the longer you talk the more I will be able to expose you for what you are.

It may even be an ugly episode we can all do without.

I can see no argument or assertion you will make as more than an attempt to disrupt this forum.

I knew you or someone like you would raise their head.

You can not twist my words to your purpose and i will not let you use me to cause unrest.

I am true to my purpose. I seek truth and all that hinder me are my foes.
you have gained that status in just three posts.

Seek to understand all things if you wish to speak to the lord of creation.

Woody
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #733 on: Jul 17th, 2006, 11:15am »

Okay everyone, I am always saying this, and it is probably expected. We all have the right to have different opinions. And that is what makes this forum great. We can all see things very differently, and all contribute to the discussions. I think most of us have figured out where each other stands, and sometimes, we say something that doesn't necessarily come out the way we wanted it to or we read something that we misunderstand. That is the biggest problem with internet communication. If we were speaking face to face, we might pick up on things from a look given to each other, or from intonation, and volume. Unfortunately, we have to do the best we can with what we have.
I appreciate everyone here, even those who see things very differently than I do. It is great to be able to enjoy the conversations from so many different people.
I hope this won't turn ugly, because I was really enjoying reading several posts back.

We just need to remember that we are limited in our communication in this format and try our best to express ourselves, agree to disagree sometimes, spark each other's curiousity and still enjoy it. After all, we do have a lot in common no matter how we express it....we all came here to discuss some of our favorite subjects.
UFOs and aliens....so let's get to it. smiley
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #734 on: Jul 17th, 2006, 4:13pm »

well said creolady, seconds away round 2. grin wink

woody thanks for your reply to my questions . iwould like to ask if you have absorbed any of steven hawkins theories?. he recently came out with a new theory regarding his studies on black holes . i am far from understanding the whole thing ,so i won't bore everyone with a pathetic attempt to explain so i'll just give a link for all who are interested as i believe that all of this ties in , aliens,time travel, worm holes , blackholes matter and antimatter etc. try this site

www.pbs.org/wnet/hawking/

or just google in his name for a selection of sites.

interesting stuff indeed.

diamond cool
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #735 on: Jul 17th, 2006, 8:04pm »

H Diamond

Yes I have read many of the works and theories in physics. Hawking now has a new form of radiation named after him. He has apparently discovered that black holes do in fact give off radiation at a very slow rate and will eventually evaporate into nothing at the end of their lives.

Very weird to think that something so massive could simply evaporate. Iím also intrigued by the new M theory and how it has unified string theory and super gravity.

Several programs have been produced about these new discoveries.
Nova has an episode titled the Elegant universe. and Megascience on the discovery channel has two or three that define and explain the new theories. It now appears that these new theories have finally enabled physicists to describe the entire sequence from before the big bang to present day. This is something no other theories have ever done.
I feel they have found the truth of it all and these new theories confirm that there are an infinite number of dimensions and all of them are distinct universes each unto themselves.
On one of these programs a researcher said that the next step would be to create our own parallel universe in the laboratory as a final test.
that is a neat thought to be able to create a universe in my work shop. Of course it would probably turn into Bizarro land or something like that. LOL

Woody
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #736 on: Jul 17th, 2006, 10:45pm »

Quote:
QOH I understand you have been abducted. could I ask you to relate your abduction experience and attempt to find contradictions in that experience that disputes or corroborates my contentions. I would enjoy hearing how and why if anything you experienced conforms to or contends with what I have conjectured.

Thanks again for your praise.

woody yes, of course i'll post about my abductions. but i must ask a favor and see if you can wait till i get back home. tomorrow is my birthday and hubby and i are driving up to austin to spend 3 days with my son. should be back on friday and i will look for the posts regarding the abductions and just copy them on here instead of typing them all out. i'll be able to get on since hes got internet, but just to check email and read posts quickly. i'll look for the posts when i get back on friday ok?
hope youre doing alright hon.
QOH
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woodgnome49
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #737 on: Jul 18th, 2006, 07:53am »

Hi QOH
That would be fine I can wait till friday. Happy birthday and I wish you many more to come.

Enjoy your trip and I look forward to your return.

Woody
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #738 on: Jul 18th, 2006, 10:32am »

Have a wonderful birthday QOH!

HJ
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #739 on: Jul 18th, 2006, 6:45pm »

If anybody is interested the episode of nova I spoke of is playing on our local PBS network tonight at 7 PM the title once more is the elegant universe. There are interviews with all the most recognized scientists and is a synopsis of the new string theories as well as those of time travel and parallel universes.


Just thought I would give you a heads up.

Woody
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #740 on: Jul 19th, 2006, 09:14am »

You know what, Woody, appart from that you are here and telling us things, we all heard elsewhere, with your intelligent and admirable posts deserving applaus from crowds around, it seems to me, my dear, that you forgot, that this forum does not exist because of people like you, who seem to understand everything.
Did you ever noticed that this forum is here because of other people , who were touched deeply by existence of alien civilisations , people with strange experiences and knowledge, which you understand less than old Chinese ? Did you , with your shining pride and intelligence ever make single attempt to understand any such an highly unusual thing practicaly ?
You would face a difficulty as everybody else does.
This world is full of people like you, they keep sitting in govermental offices and scientific laboratories, well protected by double wall of stone-like theories and unchanging schedules which no alien or human being will ever cross , protected well from possible disasters untill the last moment, safely advocating the statistic probability of happenings in heavens and earth.
Why you come here to spit on pain of those who know more than you and were humbled thousand times by dogmatics, catholics and parrots of all sorts,
why you write down things, which we all read on any other pages related to ufo and science, just to put them to different word order ?
You didn't make yet even one poor attempt to understand alien gibberish, you try to progress here with name of poor Hawkings and unified theory, which is not enough even to cook your lunch.
If you forget by chance, that there are people , who know more than you , if you want to present your human logic as peak of evolution and forget, that we are here because of more genuine experiences and knowledge , which you NEVER attampted to understand, it makes me feel sad.
We understand, that everybody has a problem to understand these things, but opinions simillar to yours I hear every day around, they look like smooth, wise and priceworthy words, but don't speak to my heart.
Why ? Because I 've seen other things yet than you did,
and your human logic is quite short to describe things correctly. I was looking forward to meet people here who know a bit about it, not people , who will keep reminding me, that this world, full of pain , suffering and underdeveloped theories is the master of final truth.

Think what you like, but I don't think that you are prepared to disscuss about possibility of alien life,
in my own experience, aliens don't talk to people about guns and roses , don't learn from our schools and don't teach people to ignore each other.
Because of this conflict between humans and aliens, children are crying, adults like you look ugly and this blue-green planet would turn to cemetery.
So don't think, that you, who are scared to learn more, than it's safe for your logic, are going to clear up the point to those of us, who come here with more heritage
and painful experiences.

Take care and keep smiling,

smileymewtwo

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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #741 on: Jul 19th, 2006, 11:59am »

Okay folks, I am going to make a statement that I don't like to have to keep repeating. As I said earlier, we are all entitled to have differing opinions. Every single person here is a valued member. And no one is the only intelligent individual on this forum. We all have different backgrounds and different interests. I am very sorry that people have said things to upset each other. So, now I will also say if you want to have harsh words with someone do it by way of pm please. There is just no reason to drag the disagreement out so publicly. We are all here to enjoy discussing ufos and aliens and all are entitled to do it from their own viewpoint. There is no need to claim someone is acting like they know more than anyone else, nor is there reason to put down the way someone else phrases words or speaks on the board.

Geez, if we were all of the same mind, this would be a terribly boring place. And yes that is something I have said before as well.
What I want to emphasize here people is that we need to be respectful of each other especially when we disagree. We can disagree and still communicate without being ugly to each other. And disagreeing is by no means wrong, we can all stand a little challenge to look at all sides of an issue. That doesn't present any threat to who we are as individuals. Just means we are different.
Again, no one is the most knowledgeable person in all areas of this vastly interesting field. Everyone of you is valued as a member. I really think variety is the spice of life. That's why I like it here so well. We are a pretty spicy group of people.
smiley
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