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 sticky  Author  Topic: UFOs and Aliens  (Read 18221 times)
queenofhearts
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #720 on: Jul 15th, 2006, 3:38pm »

thanks woody, yes, that fully satisfies my curiosity. you are so right, im not sure where they come from and have not fully come to a definate answer for myself as to where they come from.

I think they can very possibly be from an alternate dimension, or from the future . tho i do believe (since im an abductee) that for whatever reason, and again i dont know, they have performed abductions. too many people have gone thru them. sure its very very hard to weed thru the psychos and wannabees , people who pretend for whatever reason want to be associated with abductees. be it for attention, or reasons unknown, they pretend to be abductees to preach their own view of reasons aliens are here. in time you can end up seeing thru them easily.

thanks for the explaination, i understand what you are saying now. smiley
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #721 on: Jul 15th, 2006, 3:58pm »

Hi QOH

I am pleased I was able to state my point well enough that your confusion was dispelled.

This is something else I think we should consider

I feel strongly that we should reconsider our demands for information from the government on what they know about UFOs.

Everything the government has collected in the past 60 years is
held as top secret and is not something we can gain access to.

If I were the government I would keep this secret.
I would make every effort to back engineer these things and
discover their secrets. In this I agree with the government about the need for maintaining the secrets as long as possible. The outrage of some individuals at not being trusted with the information is understandable. However I feel it is unreasonable to demand that we disclose information that could be used against us.

Although the fall of the soviet union and the end of the cold war has provided us reason to think we can now stop with our clandestine
work on weapons and aircraft. I feel this may be premature. We are
still faced with enemies all over our globe and we, as a nation, are
not omnipotent and indestructible. We are just the most advanced
nation on earth at this point and not assured of keeping this
advantage yet.

It is argued that we can dispense with the secrecy on this subject
but we have seen over and over in our history that those who have the greatest knowledge, and can keep their secrets longest, have the greatest chance of winning in any conflict.

The public has gone uninformed of the true purpose of this coverup and believes there is no threat to revealing this information. I propose the government believes we are threatened by these alien
craft and the beings in them. I propose that the government is actively working to defend us from these aliens. We have been in an escalating conflict that began after WWII and the discovery of downed craft in Roswell. Up to that point we did not have anything to work with and our enemy was a total enigma to us. Up to that time all we had were reports of our pilots and soldiers
who saw and encountered these things in the skies over the whole
world. Since we were involved in a world conflict of our own making, the focus was on identifying which, if any, of our enemies might have
created these things. They could not be ascribed to any terrestrial government of the time. The technology was so far advanced to our own that it was inconceivable that someone of this world could create them.
Only after the crash in Roswell were we able to get a look at the
substance of these things.

Things that moved so fast and maneuvered so quickly they surely
could destroy us if they were used in an offensive way.

After this time the government had its first piece to work with in
order to attempt to understand what it was we faced from these
beings and craft.

The lid was slammed down on this information just as we did with
the Manhattan Project. Aliens and these craft were the most
threatening thing we could possibly contend with. They could not be
defeated by the technology of the day. We did not know what they
were made of how they moved what powered them and who were
controlling them.
 
The story of Roswell is so often retold and reexamined the
evidence has been obscured by time and mythology.
I choose to take only what was reported in the one time radio
report that a local farmer had found a crashed disk like craft and the
military was called in. The descriptions of the material associated to first hand statements of Major Marcell. and the subsequent substitution of a weather balloon photographed with the major. No reports of bodies or beings can be supported by more than circumstantial evidence of a local undertaker’s account of child sized coffins being bought or commandeered immediately after this occurrence.

By the statements and evidence I cite here we can say for sure that
something crashed in the deserts of New Mexico. The debris was
collected and taken by the military. If bodies were found, they
were taken as well. The government  decided that this was of extreme concern to us and presented the public with an opportunity to discover what it was that threatened us. I suspect the thinking was similar to what was ascribed to the war time enigma machine and our own advances in radar and computers.
This information was needed to defeat the Germans and Japanese.
Only those that needed to know were let in on the truth and every
effort was made to keep from revealing that we had captured their
machines and code books. The government hid the fact they had developed technology that was able to decipher coded messages in realtime, and possessed a way to see further than any man could with his eyes alone.
I suspect the government decided that we had to keep the
information about the UFO crash from the public but also keep it from the aliens as well. The greatest advantage we had was in knowing what these things were and not revealing this to the ones who threatened us.
As we have progressed in our technology we have made astounding discoveries and the pace of invention has accelerated to a point of near frenzied activity. I suspect that the cold war and the threat of nuclear annihilation served two purposes. First it defended us from aggressors bent on world dominance and also gave a way to cover up the technology we were discovering in back engineering the recovered craft.

The aspects of government coverup and military weapons programs
is significant. The weapons are in fact real and designed to deal with the terrestrial threats. The black budgets and secret programs of this endeavor serve as a place to hide the UFO and alien studies. It serves in both keeping us ignorant of what is going on, and obscures our intent from beings who might seek to stop us if they knew.

The cold war is a perfect analogy to this as it was the fear that we
could and would do something in reprisal that stopped the Soviets
from attacking us. The unknown aspect of our technological
advances kept the Soviet Union at bay and unable to act for fear we
might have something to overmatch them.

As I see it, the aliens have been doing as they like for centuries
with the self assurance of their superior technology to keep them
invincible and above those they chose to manipulate.
Only after the discovery of the hydrogen bomb did the aspect of
alien visitation change from a simple attempt to inspire religious
beliefs or advanced moral concepts to a program of abduction and
genetic/biological experimentation began.

It was in this atmosphere of fear and threat of world destruction
that the government was faced with a new threat. The aliens that
to date, had not been willing to expose themselves began a more
intensive program of abduction and interference with the actions
of our populations and government. They were flying over secret bases and interfering  with our electronics and weapons. This action scared the government even more and reinforced the impression there was a threat against which we needed to be defended.  

The government abandoned their attempt to satisfy the public and
declared there was nothing to fear.

All along they redoubled their efforts to discover ways to defeat
this threat.

They are still afraid and are still working to solve the problems of
defending us from these aliens. They can’t reveal what they know
because they don’t want the aliens to know that they know.

The aliens know we are trying to counter them but continue to  
believe they have the advantage. The aliens are aware we know
they are here and are interfering with us. They know we have
material taken from them and have used this information to
discover things about them that are helping us to develop
defenses to counter them.

They are not certain what knowledge  we have and do not know if
we would destroy ourselves if they tried to forcefully control us.
We might just unleash the weapons we have and destroy everything.

They continue to take people and the genetic materials of this
world but no longer attempt direct social intervention.

The current selection of videos leaked to the public from the space
shuttle program show what appears to be a craft that is shot
at. This tells me that someone is aware and attempting to destroy
or scare off these craft. If a craft is seen in orbit or transiting our close space it is fired on and driven off.
Could it be we are finally gaining ground and will soon be able to defeat them?
I do not know. I can only Hope.

Woody
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #722 on: Jul 15th, 2006, 4:18pm »

woody, you make a lot of sense in what you say. yes ,as a species we are extraordinarily concieted about our importance in the scheme of things. could you entertain these possibilities.?

1. that the aliens themselves were responsible for our existance and therefore have a vested interest in our past and future as a species. or ;

2 that they recognise that these clever monkeys have made it this far and are now venturing into space ,and may cause some problems in the future because of their warlike mentality. or;

3. that coming from another dimension or our future they need from time to time to make adjustments in order for their own time or dimension to function properly.

that's enough from me i can feel my brain starting to hurt folks. grin

diamond cool
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smiley Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #723 on: Jul 15th, 2006, 5:36pm »

smileyI can imagine that even someone very intelligent with integral personality could break his head on the correlation between human and alien logic, simply because he'd have no personnal experience with the other side and would wholeheartedly rely on single ideology, which sais the we are the only dominant intelligent specie in the space responsible for past, present and future.
Those with experience would disagree that we are really very simillar to those e.t. entities encountered and efforts destined to describe the phenomena under united physical theory are purely onesided.
We as human beings, scientist and experiencers are locked to our own multilevel spacetime system and never yet succeeded in crossing conscioussly to the other side.
Yet it's not appropriate to believe that such possibility does not exist and that other beings may not be using such technologies.
It does not proove them coming from future since they often mentioned being home on other stars and planets , never belonging to this system , and mostly they seem to come across this place by chance.
If they keep being here an hour or 30 thousand years is completely relevant to their previous spacetime systems and not to ours.
It's clear that they didn't collect enough samples and information yet and that they keep observing the situation from distance.
They are clever enough to abstain from letting us proove them openly or show themselves on public.
The reasons are obvious to those with little overview upon the global situation on Earth in general, but not explaining us what are their intentions and so on.

I feel to say that I'm really sorry that there is no responsible scientific board which would study the phenomena in their depth using the best of our technologies , brains and information,
and those sceptical attempts to describe the reality of alien abductions etc. under one headline seem to me really erroneous.

Vote for logic

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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #724 on: Jul 15th, 2006, 5:42pm »

on Jul 15th, 2006, 4:18pm, diamond wrote:
woody, you make a lot of sense in what you say. yes ,as a species we are extraordinarily concieted about our importance in the scheme of things. could you entertain these possibilities.?

1. that the aliens themselves were responsible for our existance and therefore have a vested interest in our past and future as a species. or ;

2 that they recognise that these clever monkeys have made it this far and are now venturing into space ,and may cause some problems in the future because of their warlike mentality. or;

3. that coming from another dimension or our future they need from time to time to make adjustments in order for their own time or dimension to function properly.

that's enough from me i can feel my brain starting to hurt folks. grin

diamond cool


Hi Diamond

Thanks for your comments and questions. I have often thought of these things . I will attempt to give my reasons for discounting the ones I feel have less probability and seek to clarify my stance toward your suppositions.

1. that the aliens themselves were responsible for our existence and therefore have a vested interest in our past and future as a species.

This is a popular theory and many suggest that we are the product of aliens playing god and creating life in their own image. There is also a theory of transpermia. This is a theory that life arrived here on commits or asteroids.

These are a few sites that discuss the possibilities of this. I find this theory very compelling and have adopted it as a foundation for all my other work and thoughts about life on earth and aliens.


http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/horsts/transpermia.html

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/tps-seti/swaprock.html

http://www.straddle3.net/context/03/en/2004_02_13.html

http://palaeo-electronica.org/2001_2/editor/mars.htm

I do not wish to confuse you here. I do believe that life may have come to earth on commits and asteroids but I do not think aliens from a different solar system or galaxy came here and created us. A modified theory says that we were genetically manipulated in our ancient past and we are the product of that manipulation.
I suspect this is in part true as well. I do not however believe a being from some far off world in a different solar system would seek out a planet that life is on and then create a race of smart monkeys so they would have something to play with. If we are the product of genetic manipulation the ones to have the greatest reason to do this is ourselves or rather our future selves (the ones facing some world ending calamity).


2 that they recognize that these clever monkeys have made it this far and are now venturing into space and may cause some problems in the future because of their warlike mentality.


This is a popular theme in science fiction. I only have my own thoughts for this but it is not very likely. When we were stone age men the aliens were here.
http://www.ufoarea.com/aas_ancientvisitors.html
http://www.dudeman.net/siriusly/ufo/ast.shtml
http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientaircraft.html
http://www.20kweb.com/clipart_ufos_03.html
These are sites that show the evidence for that. We were not a threat then and it is not conceivable that an alien would recognize the potential for space flight in a beast clad in animal skins and using stone tools. Thus causing them to devote 30,000 years to keep tabs on us. I just can't see it.

3. that coming from another dimension or our future they need from time to time to make adjustments in order for their own time or dimension to function properly.

I suspect you are on the cusp of it here.
We have to understand the nature of time and how parallel realities or times can interact.

I wish to try to clarify this for you. If we start with the premise that
there are an infinite number of parallel universes then an infinite
number of realities exist. Now if a future society already doomed
were to try to alter their past then the world that developed from
their manipulation would by necessity be a parallel world. If
history did not happen the way it did, the sequence of history
would not progress to the future that these individuals came from
and would never exist in this altered reality. Thus their actions did
nothing to alter their reality. However, I believe they can alter our
reality.

I propose that history can not be changed in our reality.
If it were possible to change our own history then there would be
no structure to time and we could go back and kill our grandfather
thus causing our own death setting up some unending loop in time.
 
Only in a parallel reality could you do this but then you would not
exist in that reality. As you do exist then you did not change your
own history but one of the infinite other realities that co exist
throughout time space. When you returned to your own reality
you would discover that nothing had changed and history was not
altered for you.
 
The fact that you killed your grandfather may have ramifications in
that alternate reality but your history would have no record of the
events and all would remain the same as it was before you
attempted the murder of your fathers father.

The math seems to confirm it. I refer you to a recent episode of
Megascience on the science channel, titled “Time Travel”. The
theories discussed and the evidence presented supports my theory
of the possibility of time travel and multiple universes. They also
discuss aspects of the grandfather paradox however I think my
reasoning hits closer to the mark.

I suspect this is why the attempts to redirect our social order was
modified and partially abandoned.

The recent reports from abductees suggests a shift from the
original plan to manipulate social development to the alternate
plan of genetic retrieval. The directions and influence of these
individuals in molding society to adopt religious beliefs and social
tenants is suggested in the patterns of their involvement and in the
messages they delivered.

Their subsequent lack of attention and lack of manifestations
suggest a change in plans and a disinterest in interfering with
society as a way to alter the future.

I hope I was able to give you some things to think about and eagerly await any others questions or comments you may have. Please feel free to poke holes in my theory and show me where my reasoning needs reassessment.

Woody
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #725 on: Jul 15th, 2006, 11:22pm »

A few more thoughts on time travel and the possible ramifications of actions in parallel realities. In my last post I essentially sighted the same thing twice and only changed the subject from aliens to ourselves to make the point about changing history.

I can see no way to change history and have it effect the reality we live in. It has been depicted in film and print many times. When the person changes history in the movie or book with a universe that history can be changed in it is truly a chaos and has no structure that is immutable. A universe where time is not sequential and contained would have strange unexplained things happening all the time and nothing would progress with order or reason. Things would be in constant flux and no time stream could hold sway over any other if the time lines of histories could be altered.

I envision time and our multiverse as like a huge bubble of expanding point streams all originating from the instant of the big bang and radiating out at varying velocities. The points are each moments of time and the potential of difference for each point radiates from the first. I see it like a nuclear chain reaction the first particle of time splits into two potential outcomes splitting again to 4 potential outcomes to 8 , 16, 32 , 64 and so on. A quantum exponential increase for every moment of time. Expanding in an uneven bubble with each potential point bursting always from the inside out or the point of having not happened to every possible potential outcome for any action or instant
This is becoming very hard to describe.

Let me take an example. This is a very simplified version as the words do not say what I want them to.

An instant of action (example) a gun shot. from the moment that the trigger is pulled there are an expanding number of possible outcomes. the hammer could not fall and get stuck the firing pin could break and the bullet not fire , the bullet may fire but stick in the barrel. the bullet may fire but miss the target the bullet may fire and ricochet back and kill the shooter. In my view all these things can happen and as there are an infinite number of parallel universes and realities all of these things do happen. it all depends on your relativity to the gun shot. You could experience any one of these things. By traveling through the time parallels you see all of them. the number of possible realities for any one instant of time is a variable and is difficult to quantify simply because the infinite number of realities require an infinite number of possible outcomes.

To return to my thoughts on the laws governing history and time. I suggest that the time traveling aliens could in fact return to our time and do something here in this time stream that alters what we do and we are affected by this only in the stream of time we occupy. if the aliens landed and talked to the world in front of the united nations we could do many different things and in fact all the possible things we could do, happen in different streams from the moment of their appearance. The realities that are close to us and follow parallel lines are all affected by this action but nothing prior to that will have changed only what came after. If they came the day before and did the same thing the streams that had them coming the day after would not happen and our time line would diverge from that point. this did not destroy or alter the worlds where they came the day later they continue as they were and actions in those realities have no record or effect on them by the aliens stepping a day further into the past.

I know this is hard to understand as it is proving nearly impossible to put into terms we all understand. The words sound like I am going around in circles.

It is like trying to describe the point by point actions of electrons. It is impossible to predict the path of an electron. It is in more than one point at any given time and does not have a position that can be identified in this universe. Scientists suggest that the electron and all particles of matter are trans dimensional and have positions simultaneously in parallel universes or realities. This is what has been suggested by quantum physics and proven by experiment .


So I can say that if we go back in time we can do what we want with out cause for worry as when we return to our time nothing will have changed. However what ever we did in the past will have spawned an infinite number of other parallel universes all originating with our actions.

Lets take the case of going forward in time next.
I think we could go forward in time. The problem would be in finding the proper time line that reaches all the way back to the point we jumped forward from and does not split off in different directions .

So if we go to the future it may not be the future we actually wind up in at the end. The infinite possible outcomes for every point in time makes it impossible to visit a set future for our time line. Any single future may or may not be the one we are destined for. The number of possible parallel timelines and potential outcomes means that we could only view the future as a possibility never as an assured end.


Still lost in timesmiley
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smiley Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #726 on: Jul 16th, 2006, 04:00am »

Most of the mathemathical theories supposing existence or parallel dimensions are based on endless count of higher dimensionall systems which we , as a subordinate to them , are unable to proove or comprehend.
Still according to broader view the question is, where all these systems originated from. The theory of singularities, big bang and whatsoever, is narrow minded in the sense of being completely materialistic theory. You might not consider it before, but the causality behind it relates to purely abstract, almost mechanical Universe, where quantity and quality of difussion of particles from the point of their origin is interlocked to such an extent, that time and space are virtually same cattegory yet, as well as all other dimensions. Now if this is true, either you suppose an intelligent driving force behind the phenomena or you deny existence of such a force. Relating back to singularity it's illogical to suppose more than one intelligent creative forces at the beginning of your model of Universe. Whatever later is derived from its dimensional growth, is either result of mechanical process of chance quality or it has to be enspirited process making at least certain parts of Universe inhabitable.
Now, again, the question of origins of life can not be answered by those matterialistic scientists down on Earth, who suppose that living and nonliving structures differ just in the level of organisation of particles, and that such an level of organisation of matter can originate by itself in appropriate conditions.
According to my knowledge there we have two kinds of Universes coexisting since time immemorial, that is living and non-living universe.
Material universe responsible for creating different dimensional fields of different qualities is just a base for evolvment of living creatures, who are just part of whole body of intelligent life systems inhabitibg the space.
Their way of evolution is related to particular spacetime dimension where they originated from. As far as time correlation goes, even two of them may be not able to correspond directly to each other, untill they reach particular cross point in time and space, which is yet enough to hold the transformation of their energy fields to each other and back safely and naturaly.
Untill that time all attempts for transforming one spacetime field to another, I mean artificial physical or other attempts, are too weak to sustain the high transformation potential of the field itself and may end up in catastroph.
That way the beings visiting Earth might be coming from distant and quite different dimensional systems, they might be present even if we don't see them and even if they try to interact with our dimensional field, they and us will not succeed resultant dimensional exchange unless the conditions of local related spacetime naturaly allows this to happen.
So they might be visiting the place for relatively short time from their point of view and they might not be even able to inhabit our dimensional field the way we do it. So if they are attempting any interaction to our society, it can be also purely physical experiment from their point of view, which we are not able to judge.
Such an experimental conditions had been created even on their ships to accomodate chance visitors from somewhere else, but those conditions are probably in the state of experiment even on their own side, not to speak about ours.
Imagine accomodating an alien being to Earthly conditions and how long could you keep him alive .
Not only because of nutrition etc. but we don't have really yet developed interdimensional adaptation fascilities for such purpose and we hardly understand what such a thing could look like.
It's one of the first technologies that any alien specie would have to bring on Earth if they expect the possibility of communication with us and vice versa or if they'd like to survive local circumstances.

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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #727 on: Jul 16th, 2006, 12:41pm »

As for the video evidence it is becoming harder for the government
to keep its secrets and people are all armed with cameras and
video equipment.

The government is faced with the inevitable disclosure of these
things to the general public and are frantic to find ways to prevent
this from happening. It is no longer possible to arbitrarily state there is nothing there when we all can see there is. They can’t take the cameras away and they cant stop it from being seen on the internet and TV.
 
I suspect this is a problem the government is attempting to stave off as long as possible. It may be too late though and so far out of their
control they will have to respond or be found wanting by the public.

We know they are deceiving us and continue to do so.
 
We will want answers that make since and have a decided benefit
to our society overall. We will not accept anything less than a full
disclosure and any attempt to obscure the truth after the fact will
cause many to demand investigations and penalties to be dealt out
for any who were not altruistic in their motives. The aliens are not likely to appear on the White house lawn . We would destroy any craft that made the mistake of violating that protected space. As for doing so anywhere else I also think this unlikely. They have not done so in the past couple hundred years so it is a good bet they will not do so now.

The abduction reports alone are a pattern of events that would
make any government official worried as to what is happening and why.

The aspect of technology that far outstrips our own, would cause
fear in any branch of the military. I feel it would be the highest
priority for any government aware of these facts to investigate
and attempt to duplicate this technology in order to defend against
such a threat.

To say that there are no UFOs and stand on a position that there is
nothing to fear from objects that can’t exist is a blatant lie!

The public sees these things and reports their encounters and
abductions. The government is just ignoring them.

My theory is premised on our descendants returning to attempt to
repair errors in our choices and prevent the sequence of events
that progressed to the undesirable end described. They have
continued to visit us but now appear to be focusing on the retrieval
of genetic materials.

By all reports the attempts at altering our social development have been unable to alter the future. The continuing abductions fly in the face of any assertion to the contrary.

They are continuing to manipulate us and assert their wish to help
us but the added aspect of genetic manipulation and retrieval
suggests an alternate purpose to what the “aliens” are attempting.


They appear and disappear so quickly there is no way for the
government or the military to counter their actions. They move at
such great speeds and with such extreme maneuverability they
appear to defy what we know is natural law. They take people
without interference or even discovery till too late. They seam to
be omnipotent in this respect and indefensible against.

The government having begun by denying the truth and asserting the
nonexistence of aliens and UFOs cannot now recant and disclose
that they knew all along. To do so would undermine their authority
and call into question their honesty.

We would demand answers and action.

The government knows that a race of beings is able to produce
technology that surpasses anything we can create. This would
render any defense we could muster useless. This seems plausible
to me as a reason for their continued denial of the subject.

Revealing this would cause hysteria and fear to grip the public and
the government would be called upon to defend us regardless of its
ability to do so. The government has been covering it up to prevent
public hysteria and at the same time is working tirelessly to
reproduce an advanced level of technology in an attempt to prepare
for a conflict they see as inevitable.

As long as they foster the belief that the government is
unconcerned they avoid open conflict with these entities.

If the aliens are monitoring our communications, technical
advances, scientific advances and public transmissions the
campaign of denial would serve to cover up the attempts at
advancing our technology to rival their own. The government may be
hoping to lull the aliens into believing that they are not threatened.  

But are we able to threaten them?

The greatest advantage we could create would be to reach a level
of technology advanced enough to defeat them with out their becoming aware of it, however unlikely this eventuality is.

President Reagan attempted to tell us what he knew about aliens.
In fact His comments and his proposal to build an antiballistic
missile defense system based in outer space is the basis for my assertions and comments regarding why the government is continuing the coverup.

the problem we face with these intruders and the mistrust we have for our government do not bode well for our eventual understanding of these things.

Still I am ever hopeful that the truth will be found and the answers will be revealed.

Woody
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #728 on: Jul 16th, 2006, 1:33pm »

Great post woody!
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #729 on: Jul 16th, 2006, 1:45pm »

Yes indeed. You are an asset here Woody.

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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #730 on: Jul 16th, 2006, 3:21pm »

Thank you both QOH and HJ

I am pleased you find my thoughts and ramblings entertaining and worthy of praise.
I hope to have some discussion and feed back from the others of this group but as yet the audience is strangely quiet.

I was delighted with the post from Diamond. It gave me a chance to revisit and reexamine my own beliefs and theories. I was hoping for more of the like.

Speculations, alternate ideas, thoughts I have not considered, viewpoints that may reveal flaws in my reasoning.

As I said I’ve been part of many ufo discussion groups. QOH will understand when I say in all of these different groups there are people that are fakes, charlatans, misguided adolescents, people attempting to be someone or something they are not, disturbed misguided abductees, religious zealots seeking a following, conspiracy freaks that think they are the target of government surveillance ( My brother was one of these) self proclaimed oracles and a small contingent of true seekers.

It can sometimes be very distressing to know that so many people are using these forums for purposes that are not a true investigation and understanding of ufos and aliens.

My hope is that I am perceived as a true seeker. I am willing to lay my theory before anyone and help with the dissection of it. I have only my own thoughts and the evidence I have collected. My conjectures and conclusions are as tenuous and unsupported as tissue paper. I hope someone will help me find where I may have missed something. I too question what I have contrived here.

QOH I understand you have been abducted. could I ask you to relate your abduction experience and attempt to find contradictions in that experience that disputes or corroborates my contentions. I would enjoy hearing how and why if anything you experienced conforms to or contends with what I have conjectured.

Thanks again for your praise.

Woody
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #731 on: Jul 16th, 2006, 10:53pm »

Welcome and well met FireCirc

I understand your apprehension. It is obvious to me that you are not new to these discussion groups.

I will attempt to maintain an inoffensive tone to my comments but please understand I have no personal knowledge of these phenomena. I can not speak from experience and thus have no grasp of the focus for your arguments. I can only answer as a mundane poorly gifted completely blind (psychically) seeker for truth.
I can only report from the realm of painful truths and hard reality.

This is not to say that unexplained things or seemingly miraculous occurrences have not happened to me. They have!

I spent my youth growing up during the 60s and 70s, My first ufo experience of note was in 69 and my first out of body experience was in 75. I have to admit the out of body thing was drug induced but the experience was as close as I can come to what I have heard and read others express on these forums.

Having given you this background I will attempt to interpret and respond to your comments.

Please forgive me for breaking your statements into smaller sections but I feel I can better discuss things if I can isolate specific sentences and work through each statement as stand alone comments.

QUOTE
I have had many psychic level experiences. I am not the type to draw conclusions about the numinous. In most cases, acknowledging the numinousity is all that is 'known'... if 'known' is what you can call it.

I am not sure what you are saying here. I understand the definition of numinous is “Spiritually elevated”. Are you saying you are not attempting to draw conclusions about the spiritually elevated? Or is it a jibe at those who profess to spiritual elevation?

Strange preamble.


QUOTE
But, isn't that these experiences are unknown, secret, hidden from us, lacking material evidence, not understood in many respects, exemplify otherness, strangeness, are weird, shadowy, not concrete... the very essence of what we are dealing with?


Yep there are a lot of strange things out there.

QUOTE
"Our sense perceptions are secondary to something we think of as reality. We usually assign reality to being 'out there'. But truthfully, our only primary original experience...experience that is not interpreted by the physical brain...is 'seen' by our psychic vision. Psychic vision originates 'within' and is direct. Psychic vision is usually constrewed as originating in the 'unconscious'...that part of what we know but that we don't know we know."




Our senses are the only way we have to perceive reality. therefore they are primary not secondary to our understanding of reality.
You and others with gifts beyond the rest of us mortals may try to convince us of other realities but there is no way for us to perceive them thus rendering them of no value to those of us which can not experience them.
If I don’t know something I don’t know that I know it. Very insightful.
Lets continue.

QUOTE
"We live in a time of extreme 'alienation'. Through the processes of externalized acculturation we have put up barriers to the full expression of our humanity. These parts, then, which must be expressed, have to be expressed covertly. As these alienated parts of our collective human nature are pushed into the shadows they may acquire lives of their own as we try to disown what we see as unacceptable or unattainable within ourselves as a collective species. I am not saying that we should express all of our primitive and survivalist instincts in socially incompatible ways, but we could take ownership of our great potentialities. "




Lets see if I can translate this into some thing that makes sense.
first two sentences. people feel alienated in general. Through a process of (Externalized) to give external existence to. (Acculturation) The modification of a primitive culture by an advanced one we have built barriers to our full humanity. this makes us tell lies.
But we don’t have to lie we can accept responsibility and seek to better ourselves.

OK I agree we don’t have to lie and to seek to better yourself is admirable.
I only wonder why you choose to use such obtuse words and couch things in so much rhetoric when stating things clearly would be so much more effective.
All you do with your unnecessary complication of these things is cause confusion and misunderstanding.


QUOTE
Each of the species of alien invaders have comparable qualities to human qualities we do not fully understand to be within our own selves. What I am saying, is that we, individually are not helpless and ignorant to the nature of the alien presence. It is our future and past selves. It truly transcends space and time. It is what floats eerily on the edges of our consciousness just out of reach.




I assume you are attempting to describe some quality we all have. One of connection through or within the multiple dimensions something that is perceptible. something that connects us to the aliens and to the multiple others that are ourselves in other realities. Or you are speaking gibberish.

I can agree that we may have some tenuous connection between our selves in other realities. A popular SiFi movie The One with Chet Lee has that as part of its premiss. I see a potential for this to have some truth.
Still the way you have chosen to express yourself and the choice of phrasing is distressingly similar to others I have spoken with in the past. Sadly they were not pleased with my assessment of their arguments and assertions.


QUOTE
It is real, very real, even more real than our time driven consiousness we think of as the material world. It is the embodiment of our direst fears and dearest hopes. We must embrace it. We must transform it from within, individually, and create the future, the humanity we most want, here, now.




Again I can only surmise you are speaking of something we all have and are not consciously aware of. I understand your desire to give us this. What you describe is tantamount to a near total state of holy spiritual grace of mind and body.
Sadly we poor subhumans have no capacity to understand what you speak of.
We are so closed off and obscured from the truth that we will never understand.
So speak to us as if we were children for we can never understand your brilliance. Stand tall in your “HIGH” place. The View must be magnificent from up there.


QUOTE
I have read the last few posts through this lense and have felt like I have understood a little something new. Even with all the other manifestations of the alien phenomenon, this may at least be something we can learn from the struggle.



I am pleased that what I and others here have said was helpful and informative to you.
I hope you will continue to learn and understand that it is not always best to use the biggest words you know to compose your thoughts. to do so makes it difficult for those of us who do not have an encyclopedic knowledge or collage education to understand what it is you are saying.
Simple is better in every case.
As for my proclivity with words I attempt to use the most accurate term where you attempt to use the most obscure or convoluted. It can be entertaining to some as an exorcize in solipsism or obfuscation but does not serve the greater good of discovering the truth that most of us here seek. Please talk down to me in the future I am always willing to submit myself to common terminology to communicate.

Having chastised you I will retire to ponder what inspired you to compose this document and why did you send it to me?

You must not have read my post about how I will not suffer fools.
I thought I was clear. If you did not read that post understand


I am no fool and will not suffer others who act as if they were. I also will not abide charlatans or frauds. I will not pull punches or mince words. If you wish to talk to me please be courteous and respectful of my right to have an opinion.
You can call me all the names you want but leave my family out of it.

I will discuss anything you want but be prepared to defend what you say and not react as if I were attacking you personally when I call into question any of your assertions.
Try to speak clearly and form coherent sentences and never contradict yourself. i will jump on that like a spider on a fly.
Do all these things and we will get along well.

Woody

PS: I look forward to the blast of indignation or even affirmation.
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #732 on: Jul 17th, 2006, 01:15am »

It is interesting that you choose a word that few if any might understand as the point of contention you wish to address with me.

This is curious!

What did you hope to accomplish by calling into question my definition of this particular word?

In fact i had no prior knowledge of the meaning of this word and had to resort to my dictionary to attempt to understand what you said.


Apparently you did not expect me to use a dictionary and actually try to understand what you said.

Sorry you were wrong!


I understand much more than you might dare to admit !


So my warning to you is quit wile you are ahead as the longer you talk the more I will be able to expose you for what you are.

It may even be an ugly episode we can all do without.

I can see no argument or assertion you will make as more than an attempt to disrupt this forum.

I knew you or someone like you would raise their head.

You can not twist my words to your purpose and i will not let you use me to cause unrest.

I am true to my purpose. I seek truth and all that hinder me are my foes.
you have gained that status in just three posts.

Seek to understand all things if you wish to speak to the lord of creation.

Woody
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #733 on: Jul 17th, 2006, 11:15am »

Okay everyone, I am always saying this, and it is probably expected. We all have the right to have different opinions. And that is what makes this forum great. We can all see things very differently, and all contribute to the discussions. I think most of us have figured out where each other stands, and sometimes, we say something that doesn't necessarily come out the way we wanted it to or we read something that we misunderstand. That is the biggest problem with internet communication. If we were speaking face to face, we might pick up on things from a look given to each other, or from intonation, and volume. Unfortunately, we have to do the best we can with what we have.
I appreciate everyone here, even those who see things very differently than I do. It is great to be able to enjoy the conversations from so many different people.
I hope this won't turn ugly, because I was really enjoying reading several posts back.

We just need to remember that we are limited in our communication in this format and try our best to express ourselves, agree to disagree sometimes, spark each other's curiousity and still enjoy it. After all, we do have a lot in common no matter how we express it....we all came here to discuss some of our favorite subjects.
UFOs and aliens....so let's get to it. smiley
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"We are not human beings on a spiritual journey, we are spiritual beings on a human journey." Stephen Covey
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xx Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #734 on: Jul 17th, 2006, 4:13pm »

well said creolady, seconds away round 2. grin wink

woody thanks for your reply to my questions . iwould like to ask if you have absorbed any of steven hawkins theories?. he recently came out with a new theory regarding his studies on black holes . i am far from understanding the whole thing ,so i won't bore everyone with a pathetic attempt to explain so i'll just give a link for all who are interested as i believe that all of this ties in , aliens,time travel, worm holes , blackholes matter and antimatter etc. try this site

www.pbs.org/wnet/hawking/

or just google in his name for a selection of sites.

interesting stuff indeed.

diamond cool
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imagine all the people living life in peace.

john lennon
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