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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Political ET  (Read 47298 times)
drwu23
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #210 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 10:18am »

on Dec 26th, 2011, 11:09pm, icepick wrote:
If the Greys exist, they stand a better chance of being an artificial life form than anything in my opinion. Every report about them screams AI.


Yes....and that is one of the central themes in Nigel Kerner's theory who believes they are cloned artificial beings created by an early Prime Race to explore the galaxy so the Prime Race could stay at home.
He believes that the 'grays' turned on their masters destroyed them and now are running amok in the galaxy. He also believes they are here looking for 'souls' since they have none and are upset about this and this is why they turned on their creators.
There is a lot of weird science in his book also but that's the gist of his tale.
It doesn't get any stranger than that imo.
grin
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icepick
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #211 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 12:38pm »

Not much. But it does have the ring of another story told here on Earth for many thousands of years now. It's most interesting.
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GusB
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #212 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 4:17pm »

on Dec 28th, 2011, 08:30am, icepick wrote:
Your wife is quite observant. So I imagine she also picked up on the fact that any known description of the Greys describes creatures who lack the volume needed for tissue mass to properly support them as well? Wu told me about a credible author who advocates they are AI or similar as well. Seems there is some existing consensus on this matter?

So an appropriate observation might be that they appear to be of humanoid design as well?


Yes your argument on AI is very good. The neck strength is a facinating question.

Are their any animales on Earth that have such a ratio of head and body mass?

G smiley
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GusB
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #213 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 4:23pm »

on Dec 28th, 2011, 12:38pm, icepick wrote:
Not much. But it does have the ring of another story told here on Earth for many thousands of years now. It's most interesting.


Even Whitney Strieber has talk of a positive and negative spritual experiance with the Greys.

I suspect that the Grey being as advanced as ther are would have tech that would make the your hair stand up on end.

Im not saying they are evil or little devils, that's not how I want the discussion to go (as their are other thread on this forum for such discussions).

In perspective what humanity can do now would freak out humans 100years ago if we could do time travel.

I feel that we have so much to learn.

G
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icepick
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #214 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 7:04pm »

on Dec 28th, 2011, 4:17pm, GusB wrote:
Yes your argument on AI is very good. The neck strength is a facinating question.

Are their any animales on Earth that have such a ratio of head and body mass?

G smiley


Simply put, none that I know of. If there are, I'll give you odds they're aquatic, and utilize water for the extra support.
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icepick
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #215 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 7:23pm »

Any being, whether artificial or natural, which could travel the stars would be so much further advanced than we that I doubt we could even find their technology on board their ship, let alone reverse engineer it. The hull plating of an interstellar craft alone would require alloys at least as strong as the armor plate on the USS Missouri. Contact with dust specks at those speeds can produce nuclear grade explosions. And while we have built ships capable of withstanding explosions like that, they're far too heavy to fly using our technology. Naturally.

It would be wrong for the discussion to take a strictly malevolent viewpoint on any species, but I don't see how the issue can be avoided completely in a thorough discussion. Let us take these Greys as an example, and assume they are an artificial life form. That implies some type of software behind their minds, software develops bugs over time, and, well, you get the idea. Artificial or not, I contend that any species would be the same as humans in this respect. Some good, some bad, and some playing both ends from the middle. Every law of randomization demands this.

I question either the existence of these Greys, or their motives. Why? Every known method of scientific study requires observation unknown to the subject being studied. This brings their exposing themselves to select, random individuals into question. It is even difficult to imagine a control group scenario for this, unless they're trying to determine our reactions that result from shock and/or fear. I'm sure you can see where I'm headed with this?
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icepick
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #216 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 8:22pm »

Mehhh, I don't believe that last post conveyed what I was trying to say properly. I would like to clarify a tad.

Look at it this way. What has happened in every known historical example where a civilization encountered another with a lesser amount of knowledge? (note that I did not say intelligence, as that would be a misnomer)

They conquered them, claiming it was for their own good. Meaning that they wished to protect them from their own ignorance. And in most cases, this was true. The leaders of the more knowledgeable civilization held only the best of intentions.

But what always happened afterwards? Humans aren't exactly generic, are they? In every example many turned up planning to exploit these savage people in the very first wave of colonization. And they always devastated them with new diseases the people had no immunity to as well. For example, the common cold could kill an Eskimo at one time. But focus on those choosing to exploit. They assumed that these wild people would be dumber than a box of rocks in every case. That's a classic example of underestimation. Where humans are involved, the people would be every bit as intelligent as those in the civilization possessing superior technology every single time. All they lacked was knowledge.

And we all know the complications that followed, don't we? Try the American Indians. It was a hanging offense to run whiskey and guns to the Indians, because it was a well known fact that bad things would come of it. Both the Europeans and the Indians have taken bad raps for this, albeit at different times. Try this scenario on for size. The Indians were always assigned reservations, but it was rarely required that they live there. At first. The reasons for them to go there was that whites weren't allowed there, and government assistance which the Indians had little use for was available there.

But with the rate of expansion in the Wild West being five miles a day, it was never long before all available land in the region was settled. Enter the eastern bankers, who looked to the Indian lands and drooled. How to get them off it? In almost every instance, they arrived at the same solution. Hire people of low integrity to run guns and booze to the Indians, but not just any Indians. No, they used banished Indians for this. The ones who had a bone to pick with local tribes because they were kicked out for breaking some law. They had these 'criminal Indians' attack local settlements. The settlers could rarely tell the difference between tribes, and rarely knew anything about the 'banished ones'. So it was only natural that they assumed the local tribe was on the warpath. The news would arrive in Washington DC, along with pleas for help. The army was usually hundreds of miles away, which would be the equivalent of another planet by modern standards. So they usually assumed the orders to round up the tribe in the region and place them on the reservation were justified.

When the army arrived in the region, the local tribe would rightly assume they were under attack. Numbers, not evil intent, would doom the Indians every time. That and the poor communications of the era.

In the end, the bankers would get access to the lands, the settlers felt safer, and the Indians would wind up screwed. The army needed them on smaller reservations so they could keep their eye on them.

The problems here are obvious. In nearly every instance, the combatants in the war were innocent of any wrongful acts. And the true perpetrators were not discovered, leaving them free to pull this trick again on others. Only now is it finally being realized where the blame should have been placed. In the meantime, many died and lives were destroyed on both sides.

So there you have the perfect example of how complicated issues become when cultures possessing vastly different levels of knowledge collide. While the vast majority of those involved were folks of high integrity, a few people with weak character on both sides conspired to benefit at the expense of the rest. 130 years after Wounded Knee, many people are still angry, and many still feel remorse. A more appropriate response would be rage directed towards those who exploited at the time.

How possible would it be to repeat that scenario if the participants were ETs and humans? Personally, barring the aliens were sent by God or similar, I think the answer is a given.

Sorry about the long winded post. It took far more words than I had anticipated to properly explain such a scenario. Especially one which is known. I didn't want to get it wrong. And I didn't even touch on the issues where either army officers or local chiefs were corrupt. This type of issue is terribly complex.
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GusB
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #217 on: Dec 30th, 2011, 3:11pm »

http://www.ufocasebook.com/2011/videotijuana122511.html

Man there is a lot of rockets going into space at the moment.

Poster gave a really good link on all the HAARP sites in the world which are all pointing to areas that UFOs happen.

Well whaddya know.

G
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icepick
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #218 on: Dec 30th, 2011, 3:24pm »

Well what's the latest number on the total active satellites out there? Somewhere around twenty thousand I believe.

How hazardous is it to simply enter into Earth orbit?
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GusB
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #219 on: Dec 30th, 2011, 4:13pm »

on Dec 30th, 2011, 3:24pm, icepick wrote:
Well what's the latest number on the total active satellites out there? Somewhere around twenty thousand I believe.

How hazardous is it to simply enter into Earth orbit?


lol grin
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GusB
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #220 on: Dec 30th, 2011, 4:28pm »

On your above post about the Indians is a lot like what happened in New Zealand but the difference was that Maori Tribes gave the British a beating more often than not. In the long run the Maori could not stop the colonisation.

So with the Grey ETs what if we are dealing with Hives rather than nations or a planet with a single identity.

Out of all the abductions I have never heard the Greys say "we come in peace and we come from this planet".

I think that question alone freaks out the Pentagon because the answer come's with silence. That silence is a gap that we fill with fear.

G
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icepick
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #221 on: Dec 30th, 2011, 5:52pm »

Strange you should say that, because even world leaders seem a tad nervous about this issue in certain ways. Take that and run with it any way you wish, because it's a conclusion sensed out of perception/intuition, and I have nothing to offer beyond that.

The issue in North America between the natives and the settlers was unbelievably complex, but it's a perfect example of what happens when cultures of widely different levels of knowledge come in contact with one another. A clash is inevitable, because people of low integrity from both sides seem to always assume the other side is either weak, or unintelligent, depending on which side they're on. But both are classic mistakes which are always made by individuals seeking to get one up on the other. Both assumptions are inherently false, and cause disaster every single time.

Still, the concept of the noble redskin that's popular today, is as incorrect as the honest settler ideas of days gone past. People are people, and most have great hearts. They're just trying to make a living, like everybody else. Fear is the catalyst that the darker factions of both sides always use to initiate problems.

I can see your point precisely about the British and the Maori. Here they made a more serious error in the days before the revolution. They sought to exploit issues between tribes to their benefit in their conflict with the French. Worse than that, they agitated issues between natives and settlers during the revolution. Those issues grew in scope for nearly a century in areas. People who lived on the frontier understood the difference between the nations, but those in the east were basically oblivious to this. Believe it or not, some of the biggest Indian proponents were in the US Cavalry. For example, the sole individual at Wounded Knee who kept pointing to the obvious problems, was an army general. But the Indian Agent in charge, as well as quite a few chiefs, were highly antagonistic. In the end, nobody has a clue who fired that rifle shot. But the army was extremely nervous, many Indians were amped, yet the conclusion was inevitable. Since this was the tribal branch responsible for killing Sitting Bull, a hero to all from Buffalo Bill's shows, many saw it as poetic justice for years. It was anything but.

I can't say for certain whether or not similar events would happen should somebody like the Greys make contact, but I'm thinking they would. And just like always, everybody would believe they were right. Roddenberry obviously thought Trek through carefully, because this is one thing he definitely got right. So I guess the million dollar question is, would a spacefaring civilization have the wisdom to impose a prime directive?
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #222 on: Dec 31st, 2011, 9:43pm »

I'm not getting a prime directive vibe from the Greys. In fact I feel like they are having some influence in our culture.

The Greys behaviour reminds me of what Captain Cook used to do when going and discovering new Islands. He would capture a native interrogate them to find out what he could learn, then returning them. This tactic helped him get killed in the long run.

The Greys are abducting humans almost in a anthropological sense, putting implants into their captive's, reading their minds, studying their responses to certain images and taking reproductive products. I consider it a crime against humanity.

At times I feel that if US declared war on the Greys because of the above realities. I would think fine go ahead do what ever you can to stop these abductions.

G
« Last Edit: Dec 31st, 2011, 9:45pm by GusB » User IP Logged

icepick
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #223 on: Jan 1st, 2012, 06:27am »

If the Greys are real, then no, they have no prime directive.
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drwu23
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xx Re: Political ET
« Reply #224 on: Jan 1st, 2012, 2:24pm »

on Jan 1st, 2012, 06:27am, icepick wrote:
If the Greys are real, then no, they have no prime directive.


You say that as if it's a fact.
Perhaps their 'prime directive' is to exploit any less advanced race they find? Assuming they are real of course.




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