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 sticky  Author  Topic: UFOs vs Demonic Forces  (Read 28787 times)
Erno86
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #195 on: Jun 2nd, 2015, 11:46am »

on Jun 2nd, 2015, 08:26am, drwu23 wrote:
Your lack of comprehension and general knowledge is astounding.
Neither Dr Hynek nor Dr Vallee have ever promoted demons as aliens in any form. If you had ever bothered to educate yourself on the ufo enigma in general you would know this.
Dr Hynek always supported the ETH and only late in life did he decide to look into the EDH which Dr Vallee proposed . And the EDH does not promote demons in any manner.
Also there isn't one shred of evidence to support the idea that either man had anything to do with the govt intel agencies in any disinformation capacity. This nonsense is believed by the irrational ufo conspiracy nutters on the internet which apparently are everywhere including this forum.


Is that so?...then why don't you Google --- Jacques Vallee aliens equals demons --- for once? Why does Vallee have the cover of his first reprint from his first book with aliens/spirits?...sprouting horns?

Hynek was employed by the United States Air Force and the CIA, as an official UFO debunker. If you can conjure up why Hynek was not connected to the CIA --- with the CIA having a major hand in official UFO debunking from the 50's to present day --- let's hear it.

Google: Hynek connections to the CIA and Hynek aliens equals demons.

Either way....former Hynek, Vallee and your stand on the EDH view of things, only feeds fuel to the aliens = demons crowd --- which IMHO --- is totally nonsensical too me.
« Last Edit: Jun 2nd, 2015, 12:10pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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carolnistri
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #196 on: Jun 2nd, 2015, 12:52pm »

http://presidentialufo.com/old_site/disclosure&cia.htm

I dood it,wait till Dr.Wu reads this!
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drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #197 on: Jun 2nd, 2015, 1:16pm »

on Jun 2nd, 2015, 11:46am, Erno86 wrote:
Is that so?...then why don't you Google --- Jacques Vallee aliens equals demons --- for once? Why does Vallee have the cover of his first reprint from his first book with aliens/spirits?...sprouting horns?

Hynek was employed by the United States Air Force and the CIA, as an official UFO debunker. If you can conjure up why Hynek was not connected to the CIA --- with the CIA having a major hand in official UFO debunking from the 50's to present day --- let's hear it.

Google: Hynek connections to the CIA and Hynek aliens equals demons.

Either way....former Hynek, Vallee and your stand on the EDH view of things, only feeds fuel to the aliens = demons crowd --- which IMHO --- is totally nonsensical too me.


First of all 'Googling' something does not mean it's correct and anyone who knows the web will know that there are all kinds of links and most are anomalous when it comes to the actual facts in most of these links to weird web sites. Do the homework and prove it yourself by doing the research...or is that too much to ask?
If one has read his books then one knows the facts...apparently you haven't done the reading.
You'll have to tell me which book of Dr Vallee's you are referring to since I know none that have aliens with horns on the cover...and if there is one then the marketing people did this and not Dr Vallee since he has never equated aliens with actual demons.

And again the bs on the web about Hynek and govt affiliations is just that...bs. He did Project Blue Book in conjunction with the Airforce. There is absolutely no evidence he ever worked for the CIA. Asserting that he did because he was with Blue Book is not evidence of anything other than poor logic and comprehension. Please provide some actual proof of your assertion...that's how it works btw since you are making the claim.... or again is that too much to ask?

The EDH doesn't fuel anything except perhaps to those who are ignorant to begin with and the ufo phenom area is full of uneducated and poorly read people and I can attest to that from being on various forums over the years.

You might want to refrain in the future from making silly comments that have no basis in fact but are simply regurgitated junk from the internet.

« Last Edit: Jun 2nd, 2015, 1:18pm by drwu23 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #198 on: Jun 2nd, 2015, 1:22pm »

on Jun 2nd, 2015, 12:52pm, carolnistri wrote:
http://presidentialufo.com/old_site/disclosure&cia.htm

I dood it,wait till Dr.Wu reads this!


And once again nothing in that piece shows that 'Hynek worked for the CIA' and on top of that no one can even verify the caims made nor the orirgn of this letter.
It's once again worthless internet bs.
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ZETAR
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GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2


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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #199 on: Jun 2nd, 2015, 1:52pm »

DRWU,

TO WIT:

"You'll have to tell me which book of Dr Vallee's you are referring to since I know none that have aliens with horns on the cover"

YA HIT MY FUNNY BONE... grin

HERE'S A LONG HORN STEER ~ NOTICE ~ LYNDON B. JOHNSON SPACE CENTER IN THE BACKGROUND ~ HORNS YOU CAN COUNT ON!

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SHALOM...Z
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GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2
Erno86
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #200 on: Jun 2nd, 2015, 1:54pm »

on Jun 2nd, 2015, 1:22pm, drwu23 wrote:
And once again nothing in that piece shows that 'Hynek worked for the CIA' and on top of that no one can even verify the caims made nor the orirgn of this letter.
It's once again worthless internet bs.


I'm not sure where you're getting your information from Wu...but since the CIA sponsored the Robertson Panel, whom Hynek was a member of --- Google it from the fish's mouth, which is the official CIA report: "CIA's Role in the Study of UFO's 1947-90 from the Central Intelligence Agency."

Also Google former Hynek's CUFOS --- CIA-Sponsored Robertson Panel from 1953


« Last Edit: Jun 2nd, 2015, 2:13pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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Erno86
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #201 on: Jun 2nd, 2015, 2:26pm »

on Jun 2nd, 2015, 1:52pm, ZETAR wrote:
DRWU,

TO WIT:

"You'll have to tell me which book of Dr Vallee's you are referring to since I know none that have aliens with horns on the cover"

YA HIT MY FUNNY BONE...


HERE'S A LONG HORN STEER ~ NOTICE ~ LYNDON B. JOHNSON SPACE CENTER IN THE BACKGROUND ~ HORNS YOU CAN COUNT ON!

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SHALOM...Z
TEXT


Zetar- Google: Passport to Magonia, Vallee's first reprint of his first book which is available on Amazon.
« Last Edit: Jun 2nd, 2015, 2:30pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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ZETAR
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #202 on: Jun 2nd, 2015, 2:31pm »

ERNO,

TRIED A FEW TIMES..THIS IT WHAT CAME UP...

>>> The requested page could not be found. <<<

SHALOM...Z
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Erno86
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #203 on: Jun 2nd, 2015, 2:39pm »

on Jun 2nd, 2015, 2:31pm, ZETAR wrote:
ERNO,

TRIED A FEW TIMES..THIS IT WHAT CAME UP...

>>> The requested page could not be found. <<<

SHALOM...Z


I'm so sorry ZETAR, since I'm not good at posting links yet. Should I use the hyperlink or the Ftp link? Feel free if you can.

SHALOM
« Last Edit: Jun 2nd, 2015, 2:39pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #204 on: Jun 2nd, 2015, 4:42pm »

on Jun 2nd, 2015, 1:54pm, Erno86 wrote:
I'm not sure where you're getting your information from Wu...but since the CIA sponsored the Robertson Panel, whom Hynek was a member of --- Google it from the fish's mouth, which is the official CIA report: "CIA's Role in the Study of UFO's 1947-90 from the Central Intelligence Agency."

Also Google former Hynek's CUFOS --- CIA-Sponsored Robertson Panel from 1953




I got most of my info from their actual books, other books, or respectable sites in the past. I don't frequent most ufo sites anymore because they are mostly crap.
I am very aware of the so-called Robertson panel and it was convened to make a 'statement ' about the ufo phenom. If he was on the panel ,(and I honestly don't recall...), it doesn't mean he worked for the agency. They are 2 different things.
I'll ck out what I can find in this regard.

And as I have said in the past here and elsewhere many ufologists have had connections to govt agencies and affiliated groups in the course of their ufo investigations, so from that reasoning they are all govt agents. Case in point :Stanton Friedman ,everyone's ufologist darling and Roswell poster boy ,used to work for a govt affiliated nuclear engineering company that had defense contracts. So by your logic he's a CIA agent.
These ufo conspiracy rumors and tales about many of these men have been circulating for many years. They are all bs.
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drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #205 on: Jun 2nd, 2015, 4:45pm »

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This is probably the reprint cover Erno is referring to and as I said it's obviously a marketing tool to get people to buy the book . But the obvious implication is that the 'greys' as depicted on the cover is using various guises or masks when they appear through out history which was the theme that Dr Vallee presented in this and other books. The devil persona was just one of those guises.
Again unless one has read the books commenting on them is pointless. This is why I get so fed up with many of these circular discussions due to the fact that people simply haven't read the material and end up arguing about things that they don't really understand.
« Last Edit: Jun 2nd, 2015, 4:51pm by drwu23 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #206 on: Jun 3rd, 2015, 01:16am »

on Jun 2nd, 2015, 4:45pm, drwu23 wrote:
Again unless one has read the books commenting on them is pointless. This is why I get so fed up with many of these circular discussions due to the fact that people simply haven't read the material and end up arguing about things that they don't really understand.


I understand what you're saying, and it does happen a lot. There are things people can have opinions on. That would be stuff like where UFOs might come from or the best toppings for a pizza.

There are other things that are not matters of opinion, like what is contained in a book, the details of studies reported in research papers or the perspectives held by leading experts in any given field. Those are things that can be cited and observed, as compared to consisting exclusively of subjective interpretation.

It becomes dysfunctional when people fail to read such materials when presented, or demonstrate no interests in learning about such issues, yet nonetheless want to voice their opinions on related matters. The arguments rather frequently don't even make sense, yet they don't even know it because they don't review the relevant materials in the first place and understand the contexts of what they're even talking about. There is then really nowhere to go with the discussion. Actually, it's not a discussion, it's just a relatively pointless circle of attempts to make irrelevant statements fit.

Just the way it is, I guess. I suppose we each have to decide for ourselves how much we're willing to dance with it, but, yes, it does get old, counterproductive and monotonous.
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #207 on: Jun 3rd, 2015, 04:54am »

Puts five bucks on Dr.Wus nostrils,umm Nose I mean Nose..
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drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #208 on: Jun 3rd, 2015, 11:04am »

on Jun 3rd, 2015, 01:16am, jjflash wrote:
I understand what you're saying, and it does happen a lot. There are things people can have opinions on. That would be stuff like where UFOs might come from or the best toppings for a pizza.

There are other things that are not matters of opinion, like what is contained in a book, the details of studies reported in research papers or the perspectives held by leading experts in any given field. Those are things that can be cited and observed, as compared to consisting exclusively of subjective interpretation.

It becomes dysfunctional when people fail to read such materials when presented, or demonstrate no interests in learning about such issues, yet nonetheless want to voice their opinions on related matters. The arguments rather frequently don't even make sense, yet they don't even know it because they don't review the relevant materials in the first place and understand the contexts of what they're even talking about. There is then really nowhere to go with the discussion. Actually, it's not a discussion, it's just a relatively pointless circle of attempts to make irrelevant statements fit.

Just the way it is, I guess. I suppose we each have to decide for ourselves how much we're willing to dance with it, but, yes, it does get old, counterproductive and monotonous.


A long time ago I posted 4 or 5 books in the books section here and recommended them to others here and I'm betting that most regulars here haven't read any or all of them yet they continue to comment on things related to the ufo enigma which are often addressed in these books. One can certainly get information online but it's usually summaries and questionable material due to the nature of online information (often wrongly repeated over and over..). There's simply no substitute for a decent book on the ufo phenom and believe it or not there are quite a few good ones out there.
If one is going to weigh in on a specific ufologist (or point of view) they should at least do them the courtesy of reading their material first.
« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2015, 11:14am by drwu23 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #209 on: Jun 3rd, 2015, 11:13am »

for those who want a more complete explanation of the Robertson Panel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_Panel



In 1958, the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP), a civilian UFO research group, requested that the Air Force release the panel's report. The Air Force released three summary paragraphs and the names of the panel's members. In 1966 a nearly full-length version of the report was printed in the science column of the Saturday Review.[19]


"The Robertson Panel first met formally on January 14, 1953 under the direction of Howard P. Robertson. He was a physicist, a CIA consultant, and the director of the Defense Department Weapons Evaluation Group. He was instructed by OSI to assemble a group of prominent scientists to review the Air Force's UFO files. In preparation for this, Robertson first personally reviewed Air Force files and procedures. The Air Force had recently commissioned the Battelle Memorial Institute to scientifically study all of the UFO reports collected by Project Sign, Project Grudge and Project Blue Book. Robertson hoped to draw on their statistical results, but Battelle insisted that they needed much more time to conduct a proper study. Other panel members were respected scientists who had worked on other classified military projects or studies. All were then sceptical of UFO reports, though to varying degrees. Apart from Robertson, the panel included:
##Luis Alvarez, physicist, radar expert (and later, a Nobel Prize recipient);
##Frederick C. Durant, CIA officer, secretary to the panel and missile expert;
##Samuel Abraham Goudsmit, Brookhaven National Laboratories nuclear physicist
##Thornton Page, astrophysicist, radar expert, deputy director of Johns Hopkins Operations Research Office;
##Lloyd Berkner, physicist,
##J. Allen Hynek, astronomer and consultant to Blue Book presented to the panel, but was not a full member.[15]

Hynek's opinions changed in later years, so much that he became, to many,[19] the scientifically respectable voice of Ufology. He would lament that the Robertson Panel had "made the subject of UFOs scientifically unrespectable, and for nearly 20 years not enough attention was paid to the subject to acquire the kind of data needed even to decide the nature of the UFO phenomenon."




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