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 sticky  Author  Topic: UFOs vs Demonic Forces  (Read 40161 times)
carolnistri
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #225 on: Jun 10th, 2015, 07:04am »

with reasoned arguments citing historical and modern ufo cases that make a case for demons pretending to be aliens.

You know I cant do that,but that the reason you asked in the first place. tongue
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drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #226 on: Jun 10th, 2015, 12:12pm »

on Jun 10th, 2015, 07:04am, carolnistri wrote:
with reasoned arguments citing historical and modern ufo cases that make a case for demons pretending to be aliens.

You know I cant do that,but that the reason you asked in the first place. tongue


Perhaps partly....but I'm interested in why and how one would use the demonic model other than just due to their religious beliefs. On that level there is no way to investigate any hypothesis using objective or scientific models.


btw ..this is the third thread you have started on the demonic theme if you count this one from Sept 2014.
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=alienabduction&action=display&num=1410276222
« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2015, 12:13pm by drwu23 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #227 on: Jun 10th, 2015, 2:58pm »

Every time I ask Carol if she remembers something, she never does. So the possibility exists that Carol simply forgets a post as soon as she clicks "send". It's kinda like "50 First Dates," only with UFOs. wink

S
« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2015, 3:01pm by Skeptical » User IP Logged

drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #228 on: Jun 11th, 2015, 12:27pm »

Welcome chutney....
Was that a real animated show or did you just make that one up...?
Not sure how Baudelaire fits in there.....but Crowley certainly would.

grin
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CrypticEagle
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #229 on: Jun 11th, 2015, 2:21pm »

on Jun 3rd, 2015, 10:16pm, drwu23 wrote:
Good post JJ......the NICAP connection is well known to those who have done any reading over the years and you are correct in saying that there are many connections to various ufo orgs , ufologists, and researchers that have been brought up a long time ago.

Some in the ufo community apparently need to believe in govt conspiracies under every bed for personal reasons I suppose and leave rational thinking outside the door.
While there has been a lot of disinformation over the years not every ufologist who has had a peripheral connection to govt work is an agent provocateur.
Those who have that kind of mental framework and believe in these ufo conspiracy myths I tend to write off as being fringe personalities.


Quote:
Some in the ufo community apparently need to believe in govt conspiracies under every bed for personal reasons I suppose and leave rational thinking outside the door.


I chalk this stuff up to "paranoia" conspiracy theorist are always assuming the world is out to get them and that the government or governments are all in cahoots to destroy the human race. As far as Hynek I have never read anything that would link him to the CIA and I was aware he headed up Project Blue Book for the Air Force. As far as demonic forces these type entities are extremely dangerous in and of themselves but this is verging on the subject of demonology which is off topic so I will stop here.

And just to add, if you going to apply demonic forces then the OP should define exactly what demonic forces he is suggesting.
« Last Edit: Jun 11th, 2015, 2:31pm by CrypticEagle » User IP Logged

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GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2


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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #230 on: Jun 11th, 2015, 2:36pm »

CRYPTICEAGLE,

TO WIT:

"define exactly what demonic forces he is suggesting."

WORKS FOR ME grin

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SHALOM...Z
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GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2
drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #231 on: Jun 11th, 2015, 2:41pm »

on Jun 11th, 2015, 2:10pm, chutney wrote:
As said, just an imagination based on this thread's title, as far as i know. It seemed obvious as something likely to have existed because it follows naturally from the genre of animated action series which did exist. Strange how no one ever made it. If it had been real, it probably would have been a commercial success.

But to comment more seriously on this thread's intended question, perhaps i might offer a few random thoughts.

If demons are real, and not a made-up artifact of one or more religion, then logically their existence and nature must be independent from the beliefs and mythologies of the religions which include them. Leading to the question of how accurately those religous beliefs described such demons.

And it can be observed that Evil Spirits ("demons") have been "invented" independently by many non-western cultures and non-judeo-christian religous systems. Even the Aborigines, who have had a continuous culture tracing back an estimated 50.000 years, include evil spirits in their oral traditions.

So i think the existence of demons should not be defined as a solely-owned trademark of judeo-christianity or dismissed as a matter of their "faith". Because if the existence of demons is independent of their religous system(s), then the faith of the christians is only the belief the they are 100% accurate in their version of what demons are.

Another random thought is that modern day abduction experiences and the alien beings featured in them, are somehow related to the "Night Doctors" scary story (an american folklore of bygone times, based partly on reality) being brought to life by unknown forces.

It was caucasians of the american former-confederate states who used the Night Doctors story to scare their former slaves into not leaving the south after the Civil War. And so far it's primarily been american caucasians being abducted and terrorized by the Greys. Sounds like racial payback.


As you mentioned if demons actually exist then Christianity would not have an exclusive on them .(unless of course Christianity is the only religion that is correct and true.)
Other cultures religions have oral traditions about evil spirits and demons as you pointed out. Of course it doesn't mean any of them are correct about this.
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #232 on: Jun 11th, 2015, 2:47pm »

on Jun 11th, 2015, 2:21pm, CrypticEagle wrote:
...And just to add, if you going to apply demonic forces then the OP should define exactly what demonic forces he is suggesting.


The OP is carolnistri , a board member, and she is using demon in the Biblical sense as outlined in Christian mythology and belief. She used to use the ETH but now is pretty firmly in the 'aliens are actually demons from hell trying to trick mankind' camp.

But she might weigh in on that herself when she sees your post.
wink
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CrypticEagle
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #233 on: Jun 11th, 2015, 2:53pm »

on Jun 11th, 2015, 2:47pm, drwu23 wrote:
The OP is carolnistri , a board member, and she is using demon in the Biblical sense as outlined in Christian mythology and belief. She used to use the ETH but now is pretty firmly in the 'aliens are actually demons from hell trying to trick mankind' camp.

But she might weigh in on that herself when she sees your post.
wink


Thats cool..Not ridiculing just wondering how she was applying demonic forces in the OP is all.
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drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #234 on: Jun 11th, 2015, 3:02pm »

on Jun 11th, 2015, 2:53pm, CrypticEagle wrote:
Thats cool..Not ridiculing just wondering how she was applying demonic forces in the OP is all.


You are welcome.....btw this is from the 'Does The Government Know' thread.....you might find this case very interesting . It's one of my favorite high strangeness cases. While not demonic per se it has some truly weird aspects. Ck it out...

http://www.cufos.org/iur_spring99_addendum.html
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CrypticEagle
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #235 on: Jun 11th, 2015, 3:41pm »

on Jun 11th, 2015, 3:02pm, drwu23 wrote:
You are welcome.....btw this is from the 'Does The Government Know' thread.....you might find this case very interesting . It's one of my favorite high strangeness cases. While not demonic per se it has some truly weird aspects. Ck it out...

http://www.cufos.org/iur_spring99_addendum.html


Thanks. I will look at it.
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MOKSHA
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #236 on: Jun 11th, 2015, 6:08pm »

on Jun 11th, 2015, 3:02pm, drwu23 wrote:
You are welcome.....btw this is from the 'Does The Government Know' thread.....you might find this case very interesting . It's one of my favorite high strangeness cases. While not demonic per se it has some truly weird aspects. Ck it out...

http://www.cufos.org/iur_spring99_addendum.html


Thanks doc,
reminds me of, sumtin I will never, say I know about,
took guts for a
"WINNER"
to speak his mind,
was his finale definition
daimonion
or sumtin else ?
talking glowing raccoon, is really out there, yes?
cool
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #237 on: Jun 11th, 2015, 10:18pm »

on Jun 11th, 2015, 8:10pm, chutney wrote:
If you find that logic agreeable, then wouldn't it seem possible that demons might exist but that judeo-christianity is largely inaccurate in describing their nature and/or appearance?

I wouldn't suppose anyone would be an expert at alien & demon species identification. The point being that while CarolNistri is of the opinion that demons are impersonating aliens, perhaps many evil (and good) spirits could be described as "extraterrestrial" by virtue of being frequent flyers of the universe, with some of the evil spirits naturally resembling the Greys?



If there were never any evil spirits, what do you consider as a reason for why they were invented independently by so many diverse cultures, even by isolated primitive tribes, back as far into pre-history as we can uncover?

Thinking more on the subject of the Night Doctors, it also occurred to me that one of the unanswered questions concerning abductions by Greys is that trying to view their methods as scientific research doesn't stand much scrutiny.

But if their intentions weren't scientific and had more to do with torturing and reproductively demeaning their human subjects because they don't like humans and are there to punish american caucasians, and then release those humans so they could tell the world, would that make sense as a reason?


I'm not sure I find any 'logic' in Christianity but 'if' they are the 'one true religion' and correct that 'Jesus is God' etc , then that might put them in the right about demons.
I have no idea and I don't accept Christianity at face value.
That's the best I can do on that for you.

As to your second point, if one believes in demons and spirits then I suppose some could look like greys.

I don't see anything odd about humans creating similar beliefs in different cultures since we all have the same minds more or less just filtered through different social and cultural zeitgeists. I think it's natural for us to create gods and devils to explain our place in the universe. Now we are slowly moving into science as our god. Maybe in 1,000 years we will have a different paradigm.

Dr Vallee has commented on the medical procedures aspects of so-called alien abductions in several of his books. His comment is that they, the 'aliens', seem like bad scientists based on the tales told by the 'abductees' regarding the way they go about collecting their data and materials. Why repeatedly abduct different people over and over when robbing a blood bank or sperm donor bank would give them all the dna and materials they could possibly need. And their alleged medical devices at times don't seem much more advanced than our own and why let anyone recall their abductions? We have had drugs for years that can completely block memory. They don't have similar drugs and devices as advanced as they are?
What's wrong with this picture?

Still I don't see this as the work of Biblical demons or spirits....that's simply too trite for me to accept....and too simplistic an explanation.
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Erno86
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #238 on: Jun 12th, 2015, 2:57pm »

Noory had another aliens = demons proponent on at Coast2Coast last night --- seems like there trying to nail ET's to the cross --- IMHO.
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carolnistri
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #239 on: Jun 12th, 2015, 4:01pm »

Oh Shoot! I havent listend to Noory since tuesday nite,but I cant believe you guys that you cant figure out their not Aliens from another planet,
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