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 sticky  Author  Topic: UFOs vs Demonic Forces  (Read 28790 times)
drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #240 on: Jun 12th, 2015, 5:44pm »

Demons from outer space come to torture the poor earthlings.....it doesn't get any more bizarre than that.





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CrypticEagle
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #241 on: Jun 12th, 2015, 6:27pm »

on Jun 11th, 2015, 10:18pm, drwu23 wrote:
I'm not sure I find any 'logic' in Christianity but 'if' they are the 'one true religion' and correct that 'Jesus is God' etc , then that might put them in the right about demons.
I have no idea and I don't accept Christianity at face value.
That's the best I can do on that for you.

As to your second point, if one believes in demons and spirits then I suppose some could look like greys.

I don't see anything odd about humans creating similar beliefs in different cultures since we all have the same minds more or less just filtered through different social and cultural zeitgeists. I think it's natural for us to create gods and devils to explain our place in the universe. Now we are slowly moving into science as our god. Maybe in 1,000 years we will have a different paradigm.

Dr Vallee has commented on the medical procedures aspects of so-called alien abductions in several of his books. His comment is that they, the 'aliens', seem like bad scientists based on the tales told by the 'abductees' regarding the way they go about collecting their data and materials. Why repeatedly abduct different people over and over when robbing a blood bank or sperm donor bank would give them all the dna and materials they could possibly need. And their alleged medical devices at times don't seem much more advanced than our own and why let anyone recall their abductions? We have had drugs for years that can completely block memory. They don't have similar drugs and devices as advanced as they are?
What's wrong with this picture?

Still I don't see this as the work of Biblical demons or spirits....that's simply too trite for me to accept....and too simplistic an explanation.


I don't see it either but Christianity is not without its various demons. Satan being the most famous of all. Then there is Lucifer. In Dictionnaire Infernal Collin de Plancy 1863 he wrote that Lucifer ruled over the East and commanded the Europeans and Asians and is often referred to as the King of Hell. There are more but its off topic so I will stop.
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drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #242 on: Jun 12th, 2015, 9:55pm »

on Jun 12th, 2015, 6:24pm, chutney wrote:
It makes more sense than demons trying to trick abductees into thinking they're from outer space or aliens come here for scientific studies of humans.

And, Grey abductions are primarily reported by american caucasians of non-poor income. Must be a reason for that selectivity.

Is it any more reasonable when distinguished ufo researchers, and Whitley Strieber near the end of Communion, suggest that these aliens are really Elves, the Aos Sidhe of Celtic mythology being real?


No...it doesn't make more sense on any logical basis but it might for someone who has certain beliefs that lean towards a specific model.
'Greys' (and there are different types of greys that are probably only different due to cultural bias) are reported by all types and races and globally also and not by any one income group. Do the research.
Many have made a connection to elves and fairies including Dr Vallee...long before Strieber. But simply because this is the case does not make them elves and fairies. These are just models that we use to classify an unknown and in the end it is all models.
'There is no religion higher than the truth.'
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drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #243 on: Jun 12th, 2015, 9:57pm »

on Jun 12th, 2015, 6:27pm, CrypticEagle wrote:
I don't see it either but Christianity is not without its various demons. Satan being the most famous of all. Then there is Lucifer. In Dictionnaire Infernal Collin de Plancy 1863 he wrote that Lucifer ruled over the East and commanded the Europeans and Asians and is often referred to as the King of Hell. There are more but its off topic so I will stop.


Not sure where you are going with that....how does it relate to demons as aliens or was it just an occult observation?
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drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #244 on: Jun 12th, 2015, 10:04pm »

on Jun 12th, 2015, 5:57pm, chutney wrote:
.....

Maybe what's wrong with the picture is the assumption that the abductions must for scientific reasons, and that the abductors shouldn't want their subject to remember.

An alternative assumption could be that the human subjects have recoverable memories because their abductors want them to remember it. And that it's the human mind itself putting up memory blocks afterwards, as a psychological defense mechanism.

And that they revisit the same subjects repeatedly because the abductees often develop a bit of amnesia afterwards. Or maybe in order to instill a feeling of helplessness and lack of control in the abductee?

If their activities don't make sense as efficient scientific methods, maybe that was never their intention?, .......


Those points have been brought up by several ufologists many years ago and in particular by Dr Vallee.
He has proposed the EDH which takes it out of the extraterrestrial theme for a moment and places it in an inter- dimensional realm or even an occult paradigm.
Again these are models of a hidden reality we are using to classify something we don't understand. We should not presume to think they are automatically correct. We could be a long way from the truth of what it all really means.
Do not get attached to something that is only a temporary paradigm.
'Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.'
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CrypticEagle
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #245 on: Jun 13th, 2015, 05:16am »

on Jun 12th, 2015, 9:57pm, drwu23 wrote:
Not sure where you are going with that....how does it relate to demons as aliens or was it just an occult observation?


Occult observation is all nothing more. As far as demons being aliens I think you first have to prove aliens because demons are nothing more than outward evil personifications of some ones fear, anger etc...when I say prove aliens I am talking about the physical being not a UFO. Or are alien beings a projection or personification of what we want to see rather than whats really there. This may sound skeptical and in some ways it maybe but its just an opinion.
« Last Edit: Jun 13th, 2015, 06:38am by CrypticEagle » User IP Logged

drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #246 on: Jun 13th, 2015, 11:02am »

on Jun 13th, 2015, 05:16am, CrypticEagle wrote:
Occult observation is all nothing more. As far as demons being aliens I think you first have to prove aliens because demons are nothing more than outward evil personifications of some ones fear, anger etc...when I say prove aliens I am talking about the physical being not a UFO. Or are alien beings a projection or personification of what we want to see rather than whats really there. This may sound skeptical and in some ways it maybe but its just an opinion.


The idea that we might be 'projecting' our own ideas over the actual events has been a theme by several writers over the years. Perhaps what is happening in our eyes and minds is not what is really occurring in 'reality'. We may be missing the point entirely.
Again ,at the risk of over mentioning him again, Dr Vallee has written along these lines also.

Some see space travelers, some see demons, some see only hallucination and misidentifications and hoaxing as the answer. Perhaps they are all wrong.

One of my favorite 'philosophical thinkers' who died some years back said:

"Is what we moderns have remaining to learn about the nature of Reality slight and will it require only light fine-tuning of our current way of looking at things; or do we understand very little , missing the point entirely about the nature of our situation in Being ?
-Terrance McKenna-

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carolnistri
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #247 on: Jun 13th, 2015, 11:23am »

How do you know that some of the entities being called demons don't naturally look like aliens? They could even be evil spirits from other planets, who come to earth with bad intentions.

I had so much fun believing in Aliens and that they were to Help us,what a fool I am.
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CrypticEagle
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #248 on: Jun 13th, 2015, 12:08pm »

on Jun 13th, 2015, 11:23am, carolnistri wrote:
How do you know that some of the entities being called demons don't naturally look like aliens? They could even be evil spirits from other planets, who come to earth with bad intentions.

I had so much fun believing in Aliens and that they were to Help us,what a fool I am.


Fact of the matter is all this is pure speculation and based solely on what the particular individual believes. Demons are deeply rooted in religions. Aliens are deeply rooted a belief that life exist outside our little realm.

Quote:
How do you know that some of the entities being called demons don't naturally look like aliens?


Again subjective based on the individual as I see it.

Quote:
I had so much fun believing in Aliens and that they were to Help us,what a fool I am.


No your not.
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CrypticEagle
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #249 on: Jun 13th, 2015, 12:10pm »

on Jun 13th, 2015, 11:02am, drwu23 wrote:
The idea that we might be 'projecting' our own ideas over the actual events has been a theme by several writers over the years. Perhaps what is happening in our eyes and minds is not what is really occurring in 'reality'. We may be missing the point entirely.
Again ,at the risk of over mentioning him again, Dr Vallee has written along these lines also.

Some see space travelers, some see demons, some see only hallucination and misidentifications and hoaxing as the answer. Perhaps they are all wrong.

One of my favorite 'philosophical thinkers' who died some years back said:

"Is what we moderns have remaining to learn about the nature of Reality slight and will it require only light fine-tuning of our current way of looking at things; or do we understand very little , missing the point entirely about the nature of our situation in Being ?
-Terrance McKenna-



Quote:
The idea that we might be 'projecting' our own ideas over the actual events has been a theme by several writers over the years.


Possible take for instance poltergeist.
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INT21
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #250 on: Jun 13th, 2015, 1:40pm »

Carolnistri,

If you can't tell a demon from an alien, don't worry. It seems that people are easily fooled.

http://www.channel4.com/news/rachel-dolezal-parents-say-black-rights-leader-is-white


HAL
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notdej
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #251 on: Jun 13th, 2015, 5:40pm »

chutney..

Sorry but you've completely lost me --What are you waffling on about rolleyes
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drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #252 on: Jun 14th, 2015, 12:54pm »

on Jun 13th, 2015, 4:41pm, chutney wrote:
...Dr Wu, I remember reading a survey study of abduction reports, a few years ago. At that time, the statistics said that Greys abductions are exactly as selective as i've paraphrased here. But since i no longer have the link, i'll refrain from challenging you to provide extraordinary evidence of your Extraordinary Claim.

....
edited by Dr Wu


If you do a few Google searches on the abduction syndrome you will easily see it covers all walks of life, races, genders, etc.. No mystery here or extraordinary evidence required.
There is a higher incidence of ufo reports in the USA and in California over all based on a chart posted here at Casebook a few months back.
As a matter of fact if one looks at only the famous cases that are known to all of us you will see men, women, whites, blacks medium and higher income levels.
I refer to the Hills, Travis Walton, Betty Andrreason, the Pascagoula abduction, and even Strieber himself who fits into the highly educated well off mode.

There is a difference in types of 'aliens' seen from nation to nation and the greys are seemingly more frequent in the US and hairy trolls and other little animal types in South America , while humanoid dwarves in Europe and even some robot types in Europe and Russia.
Personally I think this is cultural and related to what people in those nations accept based on past beliefs and supernatural models.
Maybe the aliens change their appearance to suit a person's personal ideas? grin
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #253 on: Jun 14th, 2015, 7:28pm »

Doc, I think it is natural for people to assimilate new information by comparing it to something they already know. So, if they were confronted with an unknown entity, their brain would naturally attempt to categorize the new information based on experiences, popular culture or whatever. I think that is the thing that is somewhat disappointing to me about these alleged encounters - there is nothing really alien about them - they all fit into things that have been staples of modern society for decades.

S
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carolnistri
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #254 on: Jun 16th, 2015, 09:13am »

Maybe the aliens change their appearance to suit a person's personal ideas? (that quote is from Dr.Wu)



I agree,that may mean that the Space Station is manned by Russians as well as Americans.
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2015, 09:16am by carolnistri » User IP Logged

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