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 sticky  Author  Topic: UFOs vs Demonic Forces  (Read 40310 times)
Skeptical
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #60 on: May 12th, 2015, 07:14am »

... or perhaps it is the work of some left-wing group seeking to marginalize the concepts of good and evil by making them seem absurd.

S
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #61 on: May 15th, 2015, 2:52pm »

on May 10th, 2015, 07:36am, carolnistri wrote:
again,bangs head on wall..


Ehmm... Carol, I'm really beginning to worry about your neighbors. With all the banging those pour souls are likely to be hiring an Exorcist or sumtin by now, to banish a (presumptive) angry, wall-shaking poltergeist!

cheesy


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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #62 on: May 15th, 2015, 3:28pm »

Carolnistri,

Are you banging your head against the right wall ?

May I suggest a course in feng shui.

HAL
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #63 on: May 16th, 2015, 05:40am »

on May 10th, 2015, 07:42am, ZETAR wrote:
PURR N WU,

de·mon·ic

/dēˈmänik/ adjective
adjective: demonic of, resembling, or characteristic of demons or evil spirits.
"demonic possession"

synonyms: devilish, fiendish, diabolical, satanic, Mephistophelean, hellish, infernal; More
evil, wicked
"demonic powers"
•fiercely energetic or frenzied.
"in a demonic hurry"
synonyms: frenzied, wild, feverish, frenetic, frantic, furious, manic, like one possessed
"the demonic intensity of his playing"

an·gel·ic


/anˈjelik/


adjective

adjective: angelic

of or relating to angels.
"the angelic hosts"

synonyms: divine, heavenly, celestial, holy, seraphic, cherubic; spiritual
"angelic beings"

antonyms: demonic, infernal

•(of a person) exceptionally beautiful, innocent, or kind.
"she looks remarkably young and angelic"

synonyms: innocent, pure, virtuous, good, saintly, wholesome; beautiful
"Sophie's angelic appearance"

QUITE A TASK TO PARSE THROUGH SUCH SEMANTICS

se·man·tics

/səˈman(t)iks/ noun
noun: semantics; noun: logical semantics; noun: lexical semantics
the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning.

AS MOST HAVE AN EXPERIENCE/PERSONAL BASIS FOR THEIR CONNOTATION/DENOTAION. THE REFERENCE OF DEMON/ANGEL IS WHAT DRWU IS POINTING OUT ~ SUCH TERMS COME FROM RELIGIOUS PERSPECTIVES...IMHO...BUT I THINK YOUR POINT PURR...

TO WIT:

"My ultimate intention was to show that evil may be a real phenomenon, without the need for God (or religion),"

THUS WE SHALL PUT THINGS IN CONTEXT...RIGHT/WRONG ~ GOOD/BAD ~ WITHOUT ANY THEOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION OR E.T. ~ PARANORMAL CONSIDERATION ~ MOREOVER, THERE ARE INTERPRETIVE ASPECTS OF THE AFOREMENTION ADJECTIVES I.E. RIGHT/WRONG ~ GOOD/BAD WHEREIN WRONG MIGHT BE RIGHT...BAD MIGHT BE GOOD ~ ALL SUBJECTIVE AND RELATED TO CONTEXT AND APPLICATION ~ IMHO

"thus facilitating the possibility that aliens could be demonic."

I'M RATHER HESITANT TO FOLLOW UR BREAD CRUMBS HERE AS WHAT IS ONES DEMON IS ANOTHER'S ANGEL AND VICE-VERSA...

AND THAT EGG SHAPED PHILOSOPHICAL/THEOLOGICAL DISCUSSION CYCLES BACK TO ONES ORIGINAL ARGUMENT TO START ONCE AGAIN ~ AD INFINITUM ~ grin

MY POINT~ WHEN THERE IS LIMITED SCIENTIFIC UNDERSTANDING OF A PHENOMENA ~ AND ~ ASSOCIATED SCIENTIFIC TERMS FALL WELL BELOW THE BAR TO CONVEY SAME (WHO,WHAT,WHY,WHEN -WHERE)~ WHY MIGHT THERE BE THOSE WHOM STUMBLE OVER LINGUISTICS TO DESCRIBE SAME TO EFFECTIVELY SUPERCEDE ( OR BE DISAPPOINTED) IN LIEU OF THOSE WHOM ARE CLEARLY CHALLENGED (SCIENTIFICALLY) TO DESCRIBE SAME...BUT I GET WHY CLIMB THE MOUNTAIN ~ BECAUSE IT'S THERE!!! smiley

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QUITE THE ~ THOUGHT ~ STIMULATING DISCUSSION...

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SHALOM...Z


Thanks, ZETAR, for adding helpful definitions here smiley! To breadcrumbs then! I agree there are actions which by changing moral perspective could be judged good from one and bad from another point of view. The pertinent question, in order to show the existence of truly evil acts, is whether an act IF CONSIDERED BY ANY REASONABLE MIND must be very very very very (running out of verys lets call it the ultimate degree of) bad. My selection of convenience: Islamic State fighters have been reported/rumored to have entered predominantly Christian villages, offered conversion to the one true Allah, and then proceeded to execute all those sticking with their original beliefs, including it is said unrepentant women and children, who uh... promptly lost their heads to these fervent followers of Muhammed. Blah..!! How 'bad' is this action when stepping in the shoes of these Christian kids, and their families?

I kinda disregard the IS justification, Qur'an-Hadith based, allowing anyone refusing Islamic redemption to be slayed and killed, precisely because there's probably ten holy books with alternative, contradictory judgements on the Christian villagers supposed offense and proper punishment.

Instead I say, for such child whose life is taken away, and their relatives, this beheading/execution is ALWAYS very, very etc-etc-etc-etc bad. Exceedingly so, even needing a term that does such heinous, cruel, violent crime against humanity justice. Simply, I argue, beheading a child for belonging to a certain faith (and not overtly converting to Islam) is evil.


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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #64 on: May 16th, 2015, 06:04am »

Dr Wu, the above reply, addressing ZETAR, may answer to your concerns (about objectivity and religion) as well.

For moral authority I do not appeal to God, but to what may be observed by any reasonable mind, using atheist/evolutionary models. I am asserting an absolute, experience based concensus among the victims of serial/mass rape and murder that they felt terrible suffering and loss. Call those victims' experiences very (very very very very etc) bad, or ULTIMATELY BAD, captured in an extreme, absolutist concept: evil.

And it is certain acts I wish to determine to be "really" and "objectively" observable. Once we have established one child was beheaded by IS for being a Syrian Christian, imo the concept Evil is applicable. Regardless of Qur'anic/divine justification.


purr


P.S. history teaches that Christians, Atheists, Hindus and Buddhists at some time have committed 'evil' acts in the sense described above.
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Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

-RONALD REAGAN
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #65 on: May 16th, 2015, 06:33am »

on Apr 27th, 2015, 3:26pm, Erno86 wrote:
Strange topic indeed...so much that I fear for my life from these "demons=aliens crowd" that keeps pushing this B.S.

I draw similarities to this crazed rant....by the early 1990's Pentecostal religion --- introducing demonology in Africa --- that has subjected African children being labeled under a demons influence with exorcisms, banishment and sometimes murder being performed by these crazed people.


Erno86, I can empathise with your worries about (often US based) Evangelical Christians who promote religious practices threatening violence on gays, witches (including children), and anyone seriously invoking God's wrath IN AFRICAN COUNTRIES WITH UNDERDEVELOPED HUMAN RIGHTS! Such American evangelists unwittingly(?) unleashed murderous psychopaths and lynchmobs on perceived sinners, perpetrating evil crimes, including murder and rape, under cover of the Christian faith. This happened in Uganda, as well as several other intensively evangelized African nations.

But Carolnistri's topic question is (adding a little grammar smiley for clarity): Is it proper to believe in extraterrestrial UFOs versus these entities being Demonic Forces masquerading as ET?

And for the latter option to be a possibility, all we need is for evil to exist. Evil acts committed by Christians and IS Jihadists actually suggest evil is real, and if so, hypothetically, visiting aliens/ETs/transdimensionals might be 'evil' too. rolleyes


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Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #66 on: May 16th, 2015, 08:02am »

PURR,

TO WIT:

"Islamic State fighters have been reported/rumored to have entered predominantly Christian villages, offered conversion to the one true Allah, and then proceeded to execute all those sticking with their original beliefs, including it is said unrepentant women and children, who uh... promptly lost their heads to these fervent followers of Muhammed. Blah..!! How 'bad' is this action when stepping in the shoes of these Christian kids, and their families?"

SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE ANALYST...

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THE OPTICS IN LIEU OF THE MORAL ABSOLUTE ~ PIT(S) ONE RELIGION AGAINST ANOTHER ~ MORE DIVISIVENESS WITH SPECIFIC TRIGGER PHRASES TO INCITE PROPAGANDISTICALLY ON BOTH SIDES ( ONE CAN ONLY COUNT AND SPECULATE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF SUCH ASSYMETRICAL APPROACH ~ RECRUITS ~ AND THE WEST SEEMS TO HAVE DROPPED TO BALL TO COUNTER SUCH AT THIS PARTICULAR VIEW OF THE CHESSBOARD () ~ NEVERTHELESS THE FLUX IN ISLAM IS FROM THOSE WHOM SKEW JUSTIFICATION OF THEIR >>> EVIL <<< WITH QURANIC SPECIFICITY...IMHO...THE GLUE TO THROW THE SHOE (LIKE LEADERS WHOM MANIPULATE FEAR FOR CONTROL ~ NEED I MENTION WHOM IS DOING SAME ~ BASIC COMPONENTS USED THROUGHOUT HISTORY)...MOREOVER, IT IS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT THESE FELLAS (ISIS) ARE AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY >>> KILL OR CONVERT <<< AS HAS BEEN SEEN IN CHINA ~ THEY ARE NOT WAITING FOR THE TRICKLE AND FLOW ~ SEEM TO BE FOCUSED ON STEMMING THE TIDE OF IMPORTS ( MY ATTEMPT AT BEING TACTFUL wink )


TO WIT:

"For moral authority I do not appeal to God, but to what may be observed by any reasonable mind, using atheist/evolutionary models. I am asserting an absolute, experience based concensus among the victims of serial/mass rape and murder that they felt terrible suffering and loss. Call those victims' experiences very (very very very very etc) bad, or ULTIMATELY BAD, captured in an extreme, absolutist concept: evil.

And it is certain acts I wish to determine to be "really" and "objectively" observable. Once we have established one child was beheaded by IS for being a Syrian Christian, imo the concept Evil is applicable. Regardless of Qur'anic/divine justification."

A REASONABLE SUMMARY WHICH I QUITE AGREE!

SHALOM...Z

EDIT TO ADD:

"hypothetically, visiting aliens/ETs/transdimensionals might be 'evil' too."

REASONABLE MINDS MIGHT FACTOR THE CONVERSE TO BE TRUE ~ HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING wink


« Last Edit: May 16th, 2015, 09:23am by ZETAR » User IP Logged

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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #67 on: May 16th, 2015, 09:59am »

on May 16th, 2015, 06:04am, purr wrote:
Dr Wu, the above reply, addressing ZETAR, may answer to your concerns (about objectivity and religion) as well.

For moral authority I do not appeal to God, but to what may be observed by any reasonable mind, using atheist/evolutionary models. I am asserting an absolute, experience based concensus among the victims of serial/mass rape and murder that they felt terrible suffering and loss. Call those victims' experiences very (very very very very etc) bad, or ULTIMATELY BAD, captured in an extreme, absolutist concept: evil.

And it is certain acts I wish to determine to be "really" and "objectively" observable. Once we have established one child was beheaded by IS for being a Syrian Christian, imo the concept Evil is applicable. Regardless of Qur'anic/divine justification.


purr


P.S. history teaches that Christians, Atheists, Hindus and Buddhists at some time have committed 'evil' acts in the sense described above.


You can call it whatever you like and define it any way you like and place it in any religious or non religious model you like ...but in the end it's subjective.
Next issue...?
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #68 on: May 16th, 2015, 10:04am »

(i just had on CNN,and we got him! The big honcho that actually leads ISIS.Yippie!) Hes deader than a stone.)
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #69 on: May 16th, 2015, 10:24am »

DRWU,

TO WIT:

"but in the end it's subjective."

SUCH LACK OF OBJECTIVITY SKEWS UR EQUATION ~ IMHO...THOSE WHOM ONLY VIEW THE END OFTEN MISS THE FOREST FOR THE TREES ~ IN A NEW OR >>> OBJECTIVE <<< BEGINNING...HAVING SAID THE ABOVE TO STIR YOU ON SATURDAY...I'M WITH YA THE SUBJECTIVE ASPECT...WITH UR FURTHER CLARIFICATION

HAVING SAID THE ABOVE ~ IS GNOTICISM SUBJECTIVE
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SHALOM...Z
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #70 on: May 16th, 2015, 10:27am »

on May 16th, 2015, 08:02am, ZETAR wrote:
"Islamic State fighters have been reported/rumored to have entered predominantly Christian villages, offered conversion to the one true Allah, and then proceeded to execute all those sticking with their original beliefs, including it is said unrepentant women and children,

Religion, faith; fascinating isn't it! All they had to do was say: 'yeah OK, we'll convert' & could've taken their time to somehow plan an escape. I'm sure, under the circumstances their god would understand. But NA, of course not! Stick to your good ol' faith, religion & belief & you'll get ya head cut off for it!!!! One can only assume that their Christian god was too busy or had headphones on & didn't hear their cries for help. I wonder if the children had the choice? NA, of course not! Don't be silly, dejcry

Peace.. hmmm maybe one day when the religion virus is dead, eh? That would be a day to calibrate, wouldn't it.....

dej...
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #71 on: May 16th, 2015, 12:52pm »

on May 16th, 2015, 10:24am, ZETAR wrote:
DRWU,

TO WIT:

"but in the end it's subjective."

SUCH LACK OF OBJECTIVITY SKEWS UR EQUATION ~ IMHO...THOSE WHOM ONLY VIEW THE END OFTEN MISS THE FOREST FOR THE TREES ~ IN A NEW OR >>> OBJECTIVE <<< BEGINNING...HAVING SAID THE ABOVE TO STIR YOU ON SATURDAY...I'M WITH YA THE SUBJECTIVE ASPECT...WITH UR FURTHER CLARIFICATION

HAVING SAID THE ABOVE ~ IS GNOTICISM SUBJECTIVE
grin grin grin

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SHALOM...Z

I don't know if everything is subjective when it comes to human concepts and terms like good and evil but I suspect for us it is. Some things are likely truly real and objective; matter, energy, etc......but then we have a thread going on whether or not reality is here if sentient beings are not there to 'see it';....so you tell me is anything truly objective or not ? ...or are all things relative and in a state of flux based on how consciousness interacts with it?
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #72 on: May 16th, 2015, 1:02pm »

DRWU,

WELCOME TO LEVEL TWO... grin

TO WIT:

"are all things relative and in a state of flux based on how consciousness interacts with it?"


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SHALOM...Z
« Last Edit: May 16th, 2015, 1:02pm by ZETAR » User IP Logged

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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #73 on: May 17th, 2015, 07:51am »

[quote author=INT21 link=board=general&num=1430064698&start=62#4 date=1431721688]Carolnistri,

Are you banging your head against the right wall ?

Naw,Im baging my head against the Left wall... grin
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #74 on: May 17th, 2015, 10:44am »

on May 16th, 2015, 1:02pm, ZETAR wrote:
DRWU,

WELCOME TO LEVEL TWO... grin

TO WIT:

"are all things relative and in a state of flux based on how consciousness interacts with it?"


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SHALOM...Z


I was once on level 10 for a few days back in college in 1970...but that was a side effect of Mr Lysergic. Sadly it didn't last.
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