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 sticky  Author  Topic: UFOs vs Demonic Forces  (Read 33764 times)
drwu23
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #90 on: May 19th, 2015, 07:55am »

JJ said: "I don't think most people understand their beliefs are often subjective. I doubt they even know such ideas aren't facts. "


Carol.....I think that might apply to you......?

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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #91 on: May 19th, 2015, 07:57am »

on May 19th, 2015, 12:26am, jjflash wrote:
The card of a MUFON Florida state section director as posted on Twitter:

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I'm not qualified to say what she thinks, but I'd confidently say most people would not understand the conflict of interest here between her personal beliefs (as suggested on her card) and the mission statement of the organization, the scientific study of UFOs. I don't think most people understand their beliefs are often subjective. I doubt they even know such ideas aren't facts.


I think that's amazing that MUFON would allow such a 'calling card' from one of their section heads....sums up MUFON's lack of credibility.
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #92 on: May 19th, 2015, 09:42am »

on May 19th, 2015, 07:55am, drwu23 wrote:
JJ said: "I don't think most people understand their beliefs are often subjective. I doubt they even know such ideas aren't facts. "


Carol.....I think that might apply to you......?

wink


and this is for U..http://www.shutterstock.com/s/tongue+sticking+out/search.html
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #93 on: May 19th, 2015, 1:26pm »

on May 18th, 2015, 07:21am, drwu23 wrote:
And once again, imo, you are missing the point.....no one is justifying anything . The point is that all concepts are subjective and based on human created terms and how people wish to define them. If you want to call 'something' 'evil' because it fits your personal ideology and models go for it (and we all do it at times..)...but as I said it's subjective (semantics) and how one wishes to define these things in the end.


A point you are making often enough to be almost impossible to miss, Wu? smiley Nah.. You hold that evil is a concept, also that all concepts are subjective, therefore Evil is always subjective.

I get what you are saying, but there is a problem with that, lots really. Simply: once 'evil' is used to define an action (say: beheading Christian children) or actor (UFOnaut, ...hi Carol, I haven't forgotten your topic!), it may be judged by the standard of all definitions. It either states the precise meaning or nature of something, or not!

Let's do it, bring it together:

on May 18th, 2015, 06:29am, purr wrote:
the obvious problem with your (overly?) philosophical stance is that it seems willing to find some way somehow of looking at the beheading of a child (for the sin of adhering to Christianity or Jazidism) as somehow acceptable or justifiable.

Does ISIS have to get at your kids, for you to finally consider its actions plain and simple evil?


You missed my question mark. Try answer if you would.

Isn't it an accurate definition to say beheading kids over their religion is evil? Do you have a better definition? How would you define this action? I'm curious...

See, IF we can find examples of actions that any reasonable mind would define as evil, the subjectiveness of the concept notwithstanding, we are showing that something may be defined, accurately characterized as such, indicating that even if always subjective, Evil is not purely subjective: occasionally it is objectively observable in action or person.

HAL/INT21 and Thelmadonna, I did not intend to bore you to death with a religious argument! I am genuinely wrestling with the topic question. Could ETs actually be demonic? I do not know (nobody is telling me) laugh, however Carol's hypothesis imo seems conditional on Evil existing, or God existing, or both. (If Evil nor God is real, ETs could not be Demons or 'demonic' or evil.)

Glimmer of hope for Carol's idea: I see evil in action in the real world. Some stuff may be legitimately be defined as evil..


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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #94 on: May 19th, 2015, 1:38pm »

on May 18th, 2015, 1:20pm, drwu23 wrote:
Getting back to the original thread topic.........is there anyone here, other than Carol, who actually believes that demons ,as in Biblical fallen angels, are going around pretending to be space aliens..? And if so what makes you believe this?


I don't know, dr Wu. I wonder if the evidence for the extraterrestrial hypothesis outweighs a biblical, demonic one? (Personally I have transdimensional leanings, Vallée's High Strangeness cases coming to mind.)


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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #95 on: May 19th, 2015, 2:13pm »

...are going around pretending to be space aliens...

At this stage are we saying that the actual UFO may be a demon, or that any entity within aforesaid ufo could be a demon.
Demon as in the biblical sense.

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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #96 on: May 19th, 2015, 2:17pm »

... Could ETs actually be demonic? I do not know (nobody is telling me)..

Someone will no doubt produce a Venn diagram showing the interlinking of ufo and supernatural.

I see a bad moon on the rise.

HAL
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #97 on: May 19th, 2015, 2:21pm »

on May 19th, 2015, 2:13pm, INT21 wrote:
At this stage are we saying that the actual UFO may be a demon, or that any entity within aforesaid ufo could be a demon.
Demon as in the biblical sense.

HAL
INT21

I think the demons are making people think they see UFO's and aliens. Neither may not actually be there or are something else but not demons themselves. I think that should clear up any confusion.
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #98 on: May 19th, 2015, 2:21pm »

on May 19th, 2015, 1:26pm, purr wrote:
A point you are making often enough to be almost impossible to miss, Wu? smiley Nah.. You hold that evil is a concept, also that all concepts are subjective, therefore Evil is always subjective.

I get what you are saying, but there is a problem with that, lots really. Simply: once 'evil' is used to define an action (say: beheading Christian children) or actor (UFOnaut, ...hi Carol, I haven't forgotten your topic!), it may be judged by the standard of all definitions. It either states the precise meaning or nature of something, or not!

Let's do it, bring it together:



You missed my question mark. Try answer if you would.

Isn't it an accurate definition to say beheading kids over their religion is evil? Do you have a better definition? How would you define this action? I'm curious...

See, IF we can find examples of actions that any reasonable mind would define as evil, the subjectiveness of the concept notwithstanding, we are showing that something may be defined, accurately characterized as such, indicating that even if always subjective, Evil is not purely subjective: occasionally it is objectively observable in action or person.

HAL/INT21 and Thelmadonna, I did not intend to bore you to death with a religious argument! I am genuinely wrestling with the topic question. Could ETs actually be demonic? I do not know (nobody is telling me) laugh, however Carol's hypothesis imo seems conditional on Evil existing, or God existing, or both. (If Evil nor God is real, ETs could not be Demons or 'demonic' or evil.)

Glimmer of hope for Carol's idea: I see evil in action in the real world. Some stuff may be legitimately be defined as evil..


purr


Purr,
I think we are talking at cross purposes here in trying to determine the subjectivity and or objectivity of a concept. IMHO all concepts and related terms are somewhat subjective and some completely so (again depending on the term used).
We can use terms like good and evil and still understand they are relative terms and change according to cultural paradigms, religious, social beliefs, and conditions.
The example of beheading of the child can certainly be called 'evil' but I maintain it's still a subjective term and not objective evil as in Biblical personification as in an actual force. Does that make it clear to you now...?

All these terms we use are just terms...none exist in and of themselves as actual 'things' (love and hate are also subjective in this regard..). We merely give them names for the sake of classification and communication. To me that's as subjective as it gets.

If you or anyone else (or even a group) wants to call an act or person evil that's fine within the semantics of any given culture , but to me there's nothing objective about it. It's a judgement call.

That's the best I can do for you.
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #99 on: May 19th, 2015, 2:26pm »

I tend to go with the extra dimensional option.

And I suppose that what is often called the astral plain will have to be included in this description.

Why ? Well we are back to the fact that if the ufo (demonic or otherwise) do exist, then they have to come from and return to somewhere.

I do suspect that there is some kind of 'otherwhere'.

I think it boils down to our physics are just not far enough advanced. We are missing something.

HAL
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #100 on: May 19th, 2015, 2:28pm »

Ed,

You're a bad boy; go sit on the naughty step.

HAL
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #101 on: May 19th, 2015, 3:02pm »

HAL,

TO WIT:

"I see a bad moon on the rise."

HMMM...

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GOOD MOON...

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BLOOD MOON...

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AND THE MOON IS MADE OF CHEESE...

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DRWU ~ IT APPEARS YOUR LOGIC IS APPLICABLE cool

"All these terms we use are just terms...none exist in and of themselves as actual 'things' (love and hate are also subjective in this regard..). We merely give them names for the sake of classification and communication. To me that's as subjective as it gets."


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ALAS...

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SHALOM...Z

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MAYBE IN YOUR DARKNESS ~ YOU'LL FIND THE LIGHT

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« Last Edit: May 19th, 2015, 3:03pm by ZETAR » User IP Logged

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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #102 on: May 19th, 2015, 3:40pm »

As my religion being a sort of a Ufonaut religion --- AND THAT's UFONAUT NOT UFONUT grin --- I feel personally insulted that anybody or any other religion would equate my religion or my ETE Gaods too "demons or demon worship."

AND THAT's THAT!!!
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #103 on: May 19th, 2015, 4:56pm »

on May 19th, 2015, 3:40pm, Erno86 wrote:
I feel personally insulted that anybody or any other religion would equate my religion or my ETE Gaods too "demons or demon worship."

AND THAT's THAT!!!


There are religious extremists out there that murder innocent people when they feel 'insulted'

as an equivalent 'chat room' retribution; why don't you pm the mods & ask for these infidels to be banned! Or are you joking? If so then put a bloody smiley on the end! angry
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xx Re: UFOs vs Demonic Forces
« Reply #104 on: May 19th, 2015, 5:04pm »

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