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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Funding  (Read 4157 times)
ZETAR
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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #90 on: Feb 10th, 2018, 8:58pm »

HAL QUESTIONS STIRRINGLY grin

"So you do not believe in the big Bang theory ?"

AND FURTHER OPINES...

"Things apparently (maybe I should say mathematically) exist and do not exist at the same time. Any attempt to reason beyond this point is useless."

I'LL PLAY ALONG IF YOU CAN SHOW ME THE MATH/CALCULATIONS ON THE "big Bang theory"

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AND HAVING CONCLUDING THIS ~ "We simply do not know." ~ CLEARLY DOESN'T PRECLUDE IT'S NONEXISTENCE. cool FURTHER IMPLIES THAT ONES MIND HAS NOT RESONATED TO THAT AKASHIC RECORD FOR ANSWERS wink

IN LIEU OF YOUR AFFINITY FOR STACKS...

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SHALOM...Z
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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #91 on: Feb 10th, 2018, 9:32pm »

Well according to Stephen Hawking, there is no God, and he calls himself an atheist.

Stephen also claims the universe was created because of gravity, not God.

My opinion is that everyone has it wrong.

The universe exists because time exists, and if there is no time , there is nothing.

If one can control time, then one can control the universe.

We only exist because of time.
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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #92 on: Feb 11th, 2018, 12:21pm »

on Feb 10th, 2018, 3:07pm, INT21 wrote:
Bonehead,

..Order does not spontaneously emerge from chaos...

So you do not believe in the big Bang theory ?


Hell no! Another crock foisted on us by scientists incapable of accepting that some things may not be explainable from our limited point of view.

I wrote an article on the subject which can be found right here - (scroll down to reply #8 "The Big Dud Theory"):

http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=memberblogs&action=display&num=1464630071

That should fully explain my point of view on the 'big bang".



on Feb 10th, 2018, 3:07pm, INT21 wrote:
..You cannot ferret out the workings of a system (the sole activity of science) without acknowledging that the system is coherent...

This goes out of the window with Heisenberg.

When, as I believe you know, one gets down to squiggly things below the quark level then all bets are off. One simply cannot know anything beyond that.

Things apparently (maybe I should say mathematically) exist and do not exist at the same time. Any attempt to reason beyond this point is useless.


Yes, at a quantum level, matter does not conform to the billiard ball assumptions that rational materialist determinism demands. Funny how all those Newtonian expectations fail at the quantum level.

But that does not mean that quantum mechanics are incoherent. It only means that they function within a different system with its own rules. The very lack of determinist absolutes within quantum mechanics is at the heart of how the universe operates: it is an infinitely flexible (thus the lack of determinist consistency) system where the primary generative cause is not matter, but consciousness. And if consciousness is at the heart of matter, then proclaiming the universe to be incoherent, as all those that submit to the "no intelligent design" religion do, is simply ignorant. That is because consciousness is primary and matter is only a secondary outgrowth from that. Declaring matter fundamental is the materialists putting the cart before the horse. Invert that basic materialist assumption and it suddenly makes sense. Imagine that!

I have written about quantum physics here quite a bit. A basic article on it can be found in the very first posting at the above Casebook page titled "Quantum Physics and Exploding Head Syndrome".


on Feb 10th, 2018, 3:07pm, INT21 wrote:
We simply do not know. So if there was some kind of 'Final Mind' that is creating/controlling all this then it is unknowable to us.

We, as humans, and everything around us are simply waves with lots of nothing in between. And the waves are both there and not there.

HAL
INT21


You can say you do not know. But I disagree. I have no direct knowledge of a "final mind" and so, do not speculate about its ultimate nature. But if you believe that all we are is "maybe waves", then you (like most rational materialists) have completely ignored the fundamental generative impetus of consciousness.

That is what the double slit experiment, "wave collapse" and the "observer affect" are all about. Nothing happens until the observer decides to measure or think about it. Then, all of a sudden - BAM - the thing takes positive form. There is the only 'big bang' I subscribe to. That is the act consciousness in-forming matter. When science and rational materialists accept that idea, nobody will characterize quantum mechanics as "unknowable" anymore.

I know I don't..... wink

BTW, thanks Zetar! Shalom my friend.. grin

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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #93 on: Feb 11th, 2018, 1:38pm »

Bonehead,

I am with you on the Big Bang theory. Never believed it.

But there is also a problem with 'consciousness'.

Either you have to believe that consciousness is completely separate from the mind. Or it all falls apart.

If one takes the brain (supposedly the font of all knowledge) and start dividing it up then one ends up back amongst the sub atomic bits. With no apparent connection between them.

So this would ask the question 'where is the mind/consciousness located'. If it is to be seen as a coherent 'thing' then it has to exist somewhere. And this would seem to imply that the 'somewhere' is outside the universe as we know it.

Bearing in mind, of course, that we only know of the one Universe; so far.

ZETAR,

..I'LL PLAY ALONG IF YOU CAN SHOW ME THE MATH/CALCULATIONS ON THE "big Bang theory"..

I can't, but as they are used on a daily basis by physicists I have no doubt you can Google it.

The maths only comes into it's own when logic fails.

Anyway, it all comes down to one question.

Do UFOs exist ?

If they do they all the above may be of some importance.

If not we can all go back to digging our gardens and waiting to die.

Even Nyx's time will catch up with him; eventually.

HAL
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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #94 on: Feb 11th, 2018, 1:42pm »

..That is what the double slit experiment,..

Yeah, how about that.

Do you know I can't even find out an answer to what should be a simple question regarding that experiment.

When single photons are fired at the screen with the double slit. just exactly where are they aimed ?

Pause to think about that for a minute, it's important.

HAL
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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #95 on: Feb 11th, 2018, 5:52pm »

I think that's why they made a big deal out of this..and gave us pop quizzes in school about that because in the end they couldn't figure it out themselves..and still can't..too late for changing my grade but maybe not for the rest of the kids..truth be told.
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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #96 on: Feb 12th, 2018, 7:21pm »

on Feb 11th, 2018, 1:38pm, INT21 wrote:
Bonehead,

I am with you on the Big Bang theory. Never believed it.

But there is also a problem with 'consciousness'.

Either you have to believe that consciousness is completely separate from the mind. Or it all falls apart.

If one takes the brain (supposedly the font of all knowledge) and start dividing it up then one ends up back amongst the sub atomic bits. With no apparent connection between them.

So this would ask the question 'where is the mind/consciousness located'. If it is to be seen as a coherent 'thing' then it has to exist somewhere. And this would seem to imply that the 'somewhere' is outside the universe as we know it.

Bearing in mind, of course, that we only know of the one Universe; so far.


No problem. If you are talking about the brain (mind?), no, that is not where consciousness resides. Remember that consciousness is primary. So, the brain too is an outgrowth of consciousness.

I tend to think that consciousness is omnipresent. It is everywhere. It is an endless field also called the quantum matrix, ether, akashic field, morphogenetic field, collective consciousness (my particular favorite name for it) and many other names. To put it another way, I think the entire universe is conscious. That is the stuff that all realities are made of. The brain is merely a receiver for consciousness.

That is my take anyway.



« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2018, 7:29pm by bonehead » User IP Logged

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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #97 on: Feb 12th, 2018, 10:07pm »

I have no proof, but UFOs are real.



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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #98 on: Feb 17th, 2018, 5:04pm »

This is the last half of aricle..feel free to visit wired for the whole thing..add something interesting the the video the NYT put out and some changes to to its original article..

https://www.wired.com/story/what-is-up-with-those-pentagon-ufo-videos/
In mid-January, though, the Times changed the caption of the lead video in its story. Both videos still have captions stating they were “released by the Defense Department’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program.” But the page now simply says the first video is “by,” not “courtesy of,” the Department of Defense.

Journalists gonna journalism, though. Of course they’re protecting their sources. But I just so happen to know that there’s another place that has original video straight from the DOD, and they’re up-front about everything.

Ah, you must be talking about To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science.

In case other readers are not already caught up, To the Stars is a company cofounded by former Blink-182 member and longtime paranormal enthusiast Tom DeLonge. The company wants to collect data on unexplained phenomena, maybe even building out tech based on what they observe. Oh, and sell books, movies, music, and merchandise related to To the Stars’ efforts.

It also, coincidentally, now employs Luis Elizondo. Elizondo says he wanted to speak about what he says the AATIP team had seen, but he didn’t think that was possible from within the Pentagon. So he resigned in October 2017, he says, signing on with To The Stars soon thereafter (although WIRED’s FOIA request for Elizondo's resignation letter, which was quoted in the Times, turned up no records, according to the Office of the Secretary of Defense/Joint Staff).

Also coincidentally, To the Stars launched a video-centric site on the same day the Times story came out—carrying the same two fighter-jet clips that appeared with the article. The so-called Community of Interest currently hosts one pilot report and one video interview along with the gun-camera videos—“the first official UAP footage,” the page says, “ever released by the USG.” (That’s the US government, for all you sheeple.)

While the academy’s site may make bolder claims than the Times did, that doesn’t make those claims more true. The Community of Interest page says the videos come from the Defense Department, have gone through the official declassification review process, and have been approved for public release. Further, it boasts that the academy can prove it with chain-of-custody paperwork. Its two UAP videos, together, have garnered nearly 3 million views on To The Stars’ YouTube channel, where the footage begins with on-screen text characterizing the videos as official and released.

Those chain-of-custody files aren’t public, but To The Stars did show WIRED some paperwork suggesting that the videos had gone through the Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review (DOPSR), which is one part of the DOD’s document release procedure. DOPSR, says this guide, conducts “security and policy reviews on all documents that are submitted for official public release.” “It means that one of the steps for the review of a product has been completed,” says the Pentagon’s Harris.

But that documentation doesn’t actually clear material for release. “An approval from DOPSR does not equate to public release approval,” says Harris. To release AATIP videos by the book, someone would have had to coordinate with the Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs. So the videos on the To the Stars don’t carry any more weight than the same videos published by the Times.

OK, fine. But those videos are still spooky. If we can’t trust the feds or the paperwork, we can trust our own eyes, right?

True, the videos show some weird stuff. But without a clear chain of custody, we can’t even know whether they were part of AATIP at all, or trust that they haven’t been tampered with.

And a copy of one of the much-touted videos has been online since at least 2007. UFO researcher Isaac Koi (a pseudonym under which he writes about the topic) established that the second video in the Times story, of an event in 2004, appeared online in 2007. Someone posted it on the conspiracy website Above Top Secret, and Koi delved into its origins. The first appearance he could find was on a website for a company called Vision Unlimited—a film production company. An archived 2007 version of vision-unlimited.de confirms that the footage was hosted there back then.

That archival film matches the Times video.1

After all the unclassifications and release-denials, this information shouldn’t surprise you. We’ve pretty clearly established that whatever these videos show, they don’t seem important enough for the Pentagon to get in a tizzy over. And while the fact that one of them has shown up online before doesn’t prove that they didn’t originate with the military, it does call that chain of custody into question. Without official confirmation or available documentation (and more documentation than WIRED saw), you can’t be sure what you’re viewing is unadulterated footage, and you can’t be sure who recorded it first.

To The Stars Academy acknowledges that the 2004 video has existed elsewhere; its explanation is that those incarnations were leaked versions and that theirs is original. But there’s no public proof for that statement.

It’s true, a Navy pilot named David Fravor did give an account to the Times of his 2004 experience with a UFO, and an unnamed source provided a report in September 2017 of the same events to To The Stars Academy. But squint just a little to see that there’s no definitive link between these accounts and that video. The witnesses give a description of an alleged strange event, and the video shows an encounter with a strange object. But without a time and location stamp of some sort, viewers can’t know whether the witnesses are actually describing what’s in the video. And, beyond that, there’s no definitive link between this video and AATIP.

In the end, also, there’s no way for the public to know whether, five seconds after the other film ends, the pilots don’t discover the “fleet” of crazy flyers wasn’t from Finland. Or the Air Force.

Fine, hater. What would it take to make you believe?

In lieu of federal nondenial, or more public paperwork, there should exist hard data—like air traffic control reports, or the radar returns Elizondo mentioned—that could help establish the videos’ actualness and officialness, as well as the UAPs’ strangeness. If someone—in an aircraft, on the ground, on a ship—sent radio waves up, and they bounced off a flying object, the timing of their return and the way those waves had changed could reveal the object’s speed, its distance, and sometimes its shape.

Will To The Stars Academy be releasing those?

Yes, Elizondo says. But how and when and where, he doesn’t know.

1 UPDATE 9:45 AM ET, 2/17/2018: This article previously included an interpretation of the text on the Nimitz video display.
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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #99 on: Feb 18th, 2018, 09:32am »

NY Times UFO Debunked?

https://youtu.be/Y2-4rL20ju0

WORTHY OF A CASEBOOK ANALYSIS!!!

TO GIMBAL OR NOT TO GIMBAL...

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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #100 on: Feb 18th, 2018, 11:08am »

I don't know. But I do wonder why if an advanced UFO it would look to have such a heat signature? Is it exhausting a hot gas or hot itself to be picked up on infrared? I don't put much stock in these type images/videos and how they are released. There are too many variables with the equipment, implementation, interpretation, personnel, timelines and narratives trying to be pushed.
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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #101 on: Feb 18th, 2018, 6:20pm »

Great article, Sys.

Ed, as for the heat signature, why not? Maybe this thing creates an energy field around the craft which creates heat.

I guess I'd like to see an infrared recording of a normal jet flying at high speed. I expect that the body and wings would have a heat signature due to friction. I wonder if there would also be some trailing heat coming off the wings, separate from the exhaust heat.

The thing about this object is that the heat radiating from it was not distorted by air flow (as far as I could tell). I suppose that would tell an experienced observer something about what was going on there.

NF/Flat
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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #102 on: Feb 19th, 2018, 10:36am »

The FA-18 tape can be twisted many ways.

I can only talk from firsthand experience, that I know UFOs are real.



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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #103 on: Feb 19th, 2018, 5:22pm »

Ok this is VERY VERY interesting..complete audio compilation with real time visuals for unknown aircraft that caused f15s to scramble

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18473/faa-recordings-deepen-mystery-surrounding-ufo-over-oregon-that-sent-f-15s-scrambling

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Last November, The War Zone posted an exclusive story detailing a bizarre incident involving an unidentified aircraft that transited the skies of the Pacific Northwest in the early evening of October 25th, 2017. What started as a radar target moving at very high speed over Northern California turned into a series of eyewitness accounts made by nearby airline pilots traveling northward over Oregon. Even F-15 fighters were launched to intercept the mysterious intruder that quickly became invisible to radar.

Now, through the Freedom of Information Act, we present what could be one of the most insightful instances of official documentation surrounding such an encounter that had already been confirmed to have occurred by both the FAA and the USAF. These materials include fascinating audio recordings of radio transmissions and phone calls made as the incident was unfolding, as well as pilot interviews, and conversations between FAA officials made in the aftermath of the highly peculiar incident.
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xx Re: NYT Puts Big Article Out On Pentagon UFO Fundi
« Reply #104 on: Today at 11:41am »

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More info here:
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