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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Nazca Lines explained?  (Read 1308 times)
icepick
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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #30 on: Nov 16th, 2010, 11:30pm »

It looks exactly like mountains that were strip mined for coal where I come from in Virginia. EXACTLY.

I've always thought the patterns came later. In an attempt to get somebody to come back. Other than that, the lines make zero sense. But the missing mountaintops look so much like the strip jobs I remember in Virginia that I'm positive that's what they are. If you will notice, all the other mountains around there have their peaks.

The statement I made about copper is just speculation on my part. I decided to use Google to find out what kinds of minerals are present there and came up with copper as one of them.

During the same time period there was a 'copper culture' around the Great Lakes which is a bit of a mystery. They try to credit it to North American natives, but they didn't know squat about smelting copper. So why mine it? Doesn't make sense, does it?

I take it the Cornish mines are just in open country? I've seen strip mines like that in Pennsylvania and Montana. You're right. Those are a mess. Look a lot like a war zone sometimes. If you're trying to make a connection from something like that, then I can see why you fail to notice the similarity. But when they haul off a mountaintop, it has a very unique appearance. And I can think of no other reason to cut the peaks off in Nazca. There are far easier ways to build an airport/spaceport.

Take care
Tim
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hyundisonata
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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #31 on: Nov 17th, 2010, 08:00am »

I prefer to take the simplistic view. In the beginning you had a civilization or alien that built an airport. They then moved on and over a period of time different natives created different drawings on top of the original airstrips trying to please some god or alien. This you need to see it from the air is false. Look around the area. It is all mountains that no doubt offered an Ariel view of not only the original airport but the new drawings to the gods.
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icepick
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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #32 on: Nov 17th, 2010, 08:25am »

To each their own. But why would a flight capable civilization go to all the trouble of removing entire mountain peaks to build an airport when there's a fairly flat valley in such close proximity. It not only makes zero sense, it isn't cost or labor effective as well.

Next you have the question of why an advanced civilization would build an airport in such a remote location unless there was something there that they wanted to retrieve. The only thing that comes to mind is minerals, because that's the only thing of value there.

With the dates given for the Nazca Lines, the only civilizations were in the lowlands or possibly Lake Titicaca. Nazca was way out of the way. It would be like us building LAX on top of the Sierras.

Take care
Tim
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HAL9000
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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #33 on: Nov 17th, 2010, 2:42pm »

Icepick,

...There are far easier ways to build an airport/spaceport...

Particularly if you have vertical take of and landing capabilities.

It would follow that if there was copper mining then there should also be copper ore rich spoil heaps. (or any other kind of ore) Do you know if this is so ?

Also I don't think anyone with the required technology to fly into and out of this are would rely upon the Mk I eyeball for their navigation.

Hyundisonata,

So where are the remains of the airport complex ? There must have been something. It isn't all that long ago.

HAL
« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2010, 2:42pm by HAL9000 » User IP Logged

icepick
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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #34 on: Nov 18th, 2010, 12:25pm »

No, as far as I know, there are no slag heaps. But such things disappeared from the coal mines of southeast America as soon as reclamation became the law of the land. Reclamation doesn't have to mean return to normal, just 'make pretty'.

The only thing I know for certain is that Nazca is allegedly copper rich. But I still hold to my belief. That's a strip mine. It looks exactly like the ones I remember. And I know of nothing that even looks close .......

I could buy into the claim that the formation is natural. Except there is no known mountain in the region with a perfectly flat top. Even the tupeis of Venezuala have uneven peaks. All logic dictates that those peaks were removed as part of a plan. And like I said, if it was an airport, what was the destination? Or where are the roads to the destination? The only logical proposal at present is mine IMO. Make a more logical one and I will concede.

Take care
Tim
« Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2010, 12:27pm by icepick » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #35 on: Nov 18th, 2010, 12:33pm »

By the way Hal, that's a very good point, but I think most people don't know that Nazca isn't all that old. I agree. There should be some clues present. What about the line of holes? What are they? Part of the whole thing obviously, but what?

Take care
Tim
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HAL9000
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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #36 on: Nov 18th, 2010, 4:50pm »

Icepick.

There is a certain practical logic to what you say. But if the tops were leveled off for mining, and the actual ore, whatever it was. was extracted, then where is all the remaining mountain top material.

HAL
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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #37 on: Nov 19th, 2010, 01:37am »

I guess you didn't catch that part of my response to you. When a civilization becomes more environmentally conscious, they no longer leave these. They often are, or become, toxic. After all, they are tailings. I once drank water from a stream that ran off of an active strip job and developed a throat abscess that nearly killed me. It's that toxic.

In the American Southeast the solution became to haul all of the excess material to a point where it was later hauled back and placed on top of the mined area. You didn't make a mountain peak, that would slide and you would be left with the same problem. It would be smoothed off level, like a garden. Then vegetation was planted to hold it in place. The theory is that the water drained through the same material before, and came out pure, so trust mother nature to do the same thing again.

Now if you're talking about the material that ore is sifted out of? That goes to the tipple and is dealt with there. In mountainous regions, these are never near the mines. There's not enough room there for this type of operation. These are always at some lowland point where they gather the material from multiple mining operations. There this material (the waste you speak of) is put through a process similar to what they do in a sewage treatment plant and deal with the soil there. Otherwise you will only destroy multiple sights. This is all very expensive, which is why strip mines are on the way out in America.

Take care
Tim
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2010, 01:38am by icepick » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #38 on: Nov 19th, 2010, 02:20am »

Hal; one point (actually two) that I didn't clarify are first, I believe this mining operation (if this is what it was) was done by a civilization capable of utilizing aerial transportation to transport the ore. Even today, that would be among the top choices for doing this. Since this civilization would obviously be more advanced than us in aeronautical engineering, there is little doubt that their craft would all be of the VTOL variety we're nearly there ourselves. This type of craft, as you pointed out, don't need much in the way of airport facilities.

Second, I just took a careful look at a map of that region. There would be room for a tipple facility on that central plateau below those missing peaks. And it does look like some soil may have been spread out to help create that plateau.

Of course that's strictly speculation. And so is this. I just ran across an article which accuses the local natives of doing something to kill off the meager forest which apparently did exist there (news to me) AT THE TIME IN QUESTION! Remember what I said about the toxicity of this stuff, and how it is capable of environmentally destroying an area? This is nothing but pure speculation of course, but it does fit, doesn't it? It's a thought anyway.

Of course I lack the resources to travel there to try and prove it, but I would love to do something like this. Especially since this is such a mystery and I'm firmly convinced that I stand such a good chance of being correct.

Take care
Tim

EDIT
It's morning now and I have had time to reflect on my euphoria from finding that bit of information last night. Other than a calmer head, I still see things the same though. But why, I ask? I lack the ability/capability to pursue that, and even if I could it would be uphill all the way. Steep uphill at that. Imagine the ramifications if one were to prove that Nazca was strip mined. Egyptologist minded debunkers might try to argue that people armed with pails and shovels did it in bucket brigade fashion, but what are the chances of that flying? Sadly I sit back realizing that even though an entire forest met its end in catastrophic fashion at a too opportunistic time to be coincidental, that still would not be proof enough for today's scientific community. It takes decades to swing consensus this far, doesn't it?

Signing out
Tim
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2010, 12:55pm by icepick » User IP Logged

HAL9000
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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #39 on: Nov 20th, 2010, 08:57am »

Icepick,

...Imagine the ramifications if one were to prove that Nazca was strip mined. Egyptologist minded debunkers might try to argue that people armed with pails and shovels did it in bucket brigade fashion, but what are the chances of that flying?...

It is, of course, possible to do massive earth moving feats by shovel and bucket. But in the context of our discussion it would be unlikely and unnecessary.
As likely as the 'visitors' having all this technology than arranging pretty pictures with stones .

So, the questions seem to be :-

1) was it an ore mining operation ?

2) if so, who did it ?

3) why ?

4) where did the ore go to ?

5) did they move the ore bearing material and separate out the ore elsewhere (very inefficient) or do it on site (more logical).

6) ore separation needs heat or chemical reaction. Are there any traces of either ?

7) why did they, who ever they were, stop ?

8) why is there no historical record to provide some clues ?

I don't know if any of the above can be answered with the data available.

One thing I did once hear. The people of the area didn't have the wheel at the time. Everything was done by donkeys, burros etc. This makes for a very big job if moving thousands of tons of rock. Possible, but hard.

Of course, if the whole lot was airlifted out then all bets are off.

HAL.


« Last Edit: Nov 20th, 2010, 08:59am by HAL9000 » User IP Logged

icepick
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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #40 on: Nov 20th, 2010, 10:09am »

Hal, I just answered those questions. Some twice. And here you are, saying the same thing again. You seem to know a bit about mining, but obviously not when it's in a mountainous region. It isn't inefficient to haul that material off to sort it. You don't have room to do it up there. Period. Those slopes are near vertical in most places.

The lines wouldn't have been made by the miners. That would be the natives, trying to get them to come back. People like that get all kinds of free goodies from intruders of that nature. They would have desperately wanted them back. Look at that plain. There isn't anything there. Think about it. It would have been a huge blow for them when the miners, if it was miners, left for good. Back to starving again.

The ore fields weren't in Pennsylvania. They were in Minnesota or Wisconsin. That's how far away the smelters would have been from this operation too. At least. And that is where you will find signs of who it might have been. Down in civilization. Where ever that was.

But if you will read my post again, you might notice that I found an article which insinuates there is a chance they would have irresponsibly dumped the tailings on that plateau? Because an entire forest died there. At that time. This is pure speculation of course, but it would happen to fit. That's all. So I'm tossing it in as an idea/possibility.

I mean, come on. We're just armchair quarterbacking here anyway. And that is all we will be doing unless one of us lands a grant to do a dig down there. Try taking my word for how people mine in the mountains, okay? After all, I did grow up around exactly that. It has to be done much differently than in the flatlands.

Take care
Tim
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HAL9000
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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #41 on: Nov 20th, 2010, 11:24am »

Icepick,

Sorry if I appeared to be asking the same questions again.

I was just summing up the list of items as I saw it. Sort of rhetorical and I didn't really expect any answers. My fault for not being specific. smiley

I did take into account what you had written and acknowledge the validity of the points.
We are indeed only armchair investigators and even those that are on the ground in the area don't seem to come up with any irrefutable answers. It's all very frustrating and in it's way annoying.

I see that you are relating the lines to a sort of cargo cult.

If you were right then all we need to do is find reports of the place where the ore actually went to; and a way to confirm it's the same ore. A to B requires a method of transport. And that is what this whole thing is about.
So, a few big heavy lifters, or a lot of small ones ?

HAL
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icepick
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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #42 on: Nov 25th, 2010, 8:04pm »

If by cargo cult you mean a people who became dependent on some other group's gifts for survival? Yes, that would be accurate.

If this is indeed a mining site, and I do believe it is, then it's at the very edge of the timeline for finding proof, and some serious digging would be needed.

A mining group capable of transporting ore by air would be highly advanced too. Like I said, I would like nothing better than to be able to investigate Nazca for this possibility.

Take care
Tim
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GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2


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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #43 on: Nov 26th, 2010, 2:28pm »

HEY ICEPICK AND HAL9000,

YOU TWO HAVE BROACHED A VERY INTERESTING TOPIC.
I'VE OFTEN WONDERED AS TO WHERE ALL THE RUBBLE WENT FROM LEVELING THAT MOUNTAIN PEAK...SHOULD BE PRESENT SOMEWHERE.
SOME SAY THAT IF OFF WORLDERS CAME HERE...AND WERE INTERESTED IN THE MINERALS OF EARTH...NAZCA WOULD BE/IS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF WHAT EARTH HAS TO OFFER...FURTHERMORE...IT WAS SUGGESTED THAT GOLD WAS ONE ITEM OF INTEREST FOR SUCH EXPEDITIONS...CLEARLY NASA'S USE OF GOLD TO PLATE MANY CONTACTS IN THEIR ELECTRICAL COMPONENTS WOULD JUSTIFY SUCH...

ONE ADDITIONAL THOUGHT IS WHETHER THIS WAS ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH INTENSE MANUAL LABOR...OR VIA SOME SORT OF EQUIPMENT AND IF THE LATTER...WHAT FOR SAID PERIOD OF TIME?...

ANYWAY...INTERESTING EXCHANGE wink

SHALOM...ZETAR
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GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2
icepick
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xx Re: Nazca Lines explained?
« Reply #44 on: Nov 26th, 2010, 5:41pm »

Very interesting doesn't even touch it in my opinion. This is such an obvious former mining operation .......... but it doesn't have to be an extraterrestrial version. If you stop to think about it, there was far more than ample time for civilization to reach at least our level of sophistication before the Younger Dryas Event. The miners could just as easily have been from Planet Earth as anywhere else. Where the civilization would have been that supported it is the big question. If it was from here, then that remains to be discovered by some future archaeological dig.

Of course those lines are the efforts of the locals trying to get the miners to return for whatever reason. This far, the story is pretty easy to determine (although this is only one of the speculations out there), to get any further will take some kind of extreme effort.

I am convinced that the answer lies somewhere along these lines though. Man, to be a fly on the wall at some point in history eh? This is one of those times, because something huge happened at Nazca at some point in history.

Take care
Tim
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