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 thread  Author  Topic: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?  (Read 1051 times)
Bocker
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xx Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Thread started on: Jun 28th, 2017, 4:52pm »

So here's a question that has bugged me for a long time.

We are often told that the U.F.O pehenomena has been around since the `dawn of man`.

Evidence for this is given in the form of, for example, cave paintings in I Tolo, Tanzania from 27, 000 BC which are said to depict classic saucer shaped craft sending rays to the ground. Or in Indian depictions fro 10,000 years ago which seem to depict Greys in `spacesuits` and so on (see a thread about this on this site). No doubt you can think of your own similar examples, where familiar U.F.O-like phenomena apear to be recorded in the disant past.

Now here's the problem: think of how our *own* air and space technology has leap-frogged exponentially in the last century - let alone millenia. We havemoved on from the Wright brothers, then flimsy biplanes and so on, onto supersonic jets and space stations.

And yet, apparently, our friends fro Zeta Reticuli, or wherever, were using the same luminous, silent, anti-graviational vehicles then - thousands of years ago - as they are now.

Three possible explanations come to mind:
(1) Our own obscure little planet is so darned fascinating that sucsessive waves of seperate visitors have come here - all with comparative levels of space technology.
(2) That it is the same lot who have been showing up all this time - and their technology (and modus operandi) has not moved on in all that time.
(3) That the UFO people are time travellers and can pop up in any time period of their choosing.

All of these options are deeply problematic, I hope you can see.
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xx Re: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Reply #1 on: Jun 28th, 2017, 5:43pm »

Quote:
(2) That it is the same lot who have been showing up all this time - and their technology (and modus operandi) has not moved on in all that time


Perhaps they reached perfection eons ago. wink

Like you said a long time

Quote:
BOMBSHELL REPORT REVEALS ACTIVITIES AND MOTIVATIONS OF ET RACES INTERACTING WITH HUMANITY


A 4 yr old report but worth a read, not what I was originally looking for, but worth a glance just the same.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/08/24/bombshell-report-reveals-activities-and-motivations-of-et-races-interacting-with-humanity/
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xx Re: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Reply #2 on: Jun 29th, 2017, 06:54am »

Thanks for the reply thelmaddona - and for the link.
I'm highly dubious about these `multiple alien types are here` claims. It seems to me an example of people spinning self-indulgent science fiction fantasies on the basis of very slender evidence.

The benign human-like ufo occupants seem to stem from the largely discredited contactee era of the 50's and 60's from Adamski onward to Meier. I can not think of that nmany convinving CE3's and 4's which involve pleasant human-like UFO occupants - the overwhelming majority seem to concern what are now known as Greys - small spindly insectoid critters, sometimes accompanied by `praying mantis` type figures (who may be the authentic aliens - the little people being their robotic helpers).

It seems to me that a speicies which has the technology for interstellar travel would also have evolved into different forms - with various cyborg and remote controlled representatives doing their bidding. I t is also probable that they would be able to appear to us in any guise that they wanted us to see them as. So no need for anything as Fifties as an intergalactic brotherhood desending on the New World!

All of which is highly speculative - and none of which answers my original question!
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xx Re: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Reply #3 on: Jun 29th, 2017, 09:29am »

You are very welcome for the reply but I dont understand your final line
Quote:
All of which is highly speculative - and none of which answers my original question!


My answer is there
Quote:
Perhaps they reached perfection eons ago. wink


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xx Re: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Reply #4 on: Jun 29th, 2017, 4:32pm »

What you knew yesterday may not apply to tomorrow.

I think we are entering the age of funny shaped organic UFOs.
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xx Re: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Reply #5 on: Jun 30th, 2017, 07:26am »

Quote:
I can not think of that nmany convinving CE3's and 4's which involve pleasant human-like UFO occupants


Please read up on these terms. It is not likely these types will have either seen or met any type of extraterrestrial. You want to be looking for CE5 reports. They are about.
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xx Re: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Reply #6 on: Jul 1st, 2017, 02:55am »

I am aware of my terms, thank you very much, thelmaddona. The Close encounter of the 4th Kind ranking was invented in the eighties as an extension of Hynecks original classification - to refer specifically to abductions. There are those, however, who - after Vallee- use the term to refer to disruption of the witnesses sense of reality...but this is a minority use of the term

CE5 refers to `sucsessful` communication between aliens and man and was concocted by the highly dubious Greer. I am not sure if I accept such a thing at all.

By the way, I assumed that your remark about them having reached perfection to be a merry quip - and my line about not answering my original post referred to my *own* speculations as much as anything.

Nyx: organic type UFOs have been with us for some time. Just from the top of my head, there was a well attested case from, I think, the seventies where a jellyfish-lke UFO was seen by numerous people over a town in Portugal.

Later a lot of `angel hair` - traces of light organic matter - fell on the region. Some of this was collected and subject to analysis by a local university. It was thought to be some kind of marine life.

This is pure speculation again, but I consider it to be possible that there are simple life forms -perhaps sea-related - which exist in the upper atmosphere and that these get spotted from time to time. However, this belongs to the realm of cryptozooology - and is not connected with the type of UFOs invovlving craft produced by civilisations.

It will, however, be interesting to see if UFO reports change over the years. I understand that, statistically speaking, saucer shaped objects are less reported than used to be the case, for example.
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xx Re: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Reply #7 on: Jul 2nd, 2017, 07:42am »

If I am curt or even dismissive, it is as a CE5 I get pretty cut up,when folks ask of a message board an unanswerable question. For some the subject is very serious, not even slightly quipable. Where are you coming to the subject from?

You mention Adamski! Would this be George Adamski? A CE4 if I remember correctly. I present you the case of Zigmund Adamski. A CE7 report.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/yorkslincs/series2/ufo_alien_abduction_yorkshire_pennine_sighting_adamski_mystery.shtml

I hope you keep searching for answers. Wikipedia and such search engines dont have all the answers. Dig in the bowels of this website and you will find a lot more.
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xx Re: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Reply #8 on: Jul 4th, 2017, 03:11am »

Again, thanks for the reply,thelmaddona.

As a matter of fact I still think that *hard copy books* remain the best source for serious UFO research. Something by Don Donderi or Leslie Keane is worth a dozen Wikipedia pages.

Where am I coming from? I believe that there is a serious UFO phenomena out there and that it most likely - but by no means necessarily - concerns E.T involvement. I think that we can only sift through reports - as there is very little else to examine. I am sceptical about, but by no means hostile to, a lot of `Ancient Astronaut`stuff; conspiracy theories meanwhile have got way out of hand.I also feel that a lot of self-proclaimed contactees are muddying the waters of serious enquiry.

I dislike being told to take `information` on trust (now where have we heard *that* before?) and think that it's important to keep asking questions - especially awkward ones. I should add that I think that we need - as in life generally - to keep a sense of humour.

And, yes, I meant *George* Adamski - although I was aware of the other one.

I look forward to going into the bowels of this site, as you suggest.
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xx Re: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Reply #9 on: Aug 10th, 2017, 08:03am »

on Jun 28th, 2017, 4:52pm, Bocker wrote:
So here's a question that has bugged me for a long time.

We are often told that the U.F.O pehenomena has been around since the `dawn of man`.

Evidence for this is given in the form of, for example, cave paintings in I Tolo, Tanzania from 27, 000 BC which are said to depict classic saucer shaped craft sending rays to the ground. Or in Indian depictions fro 10,000 years ago which seem to depict Greys in `spacesuits` and so on (see a thread about this on this site). No doubt you can think of your own similar examples, where familiar U.F.O-like phenomena apear to be recorded in the disant past.

Now here's the problem: think of how our *own* air and space technology has leap-frogged exponentially in the last century - let alone millenia. We havemoved on from the Wright brothers, then flimsy biplanes and so on, onto supersonic jets and space stations.

And yet, apparently, our friends fro Zeta Reticuli, or wherever, were using the same luminous, silent, anti-graviational vehicles then - thousands of years ago - as they are now.

Three possible explanations come to mind:
(1) Our own obscure little planet is so darned fascinating that sucsessive waves of seperate visitors have come here - all with comparative levels of space technology.
(2) That it is the same lot who have been showing up all this time - and their technology (and modus operandi) has not moved on in all that time.
(3) That the UFO people are time travellers and can pop up in any time period of their choosing.

All of these options are deeply problematic, I hope you can see.


Hi Bocker, welcome, uh... the simple answer might be that UFO technology represents the non reducible outcome of physics (say for traversing our 'known' Universe, plus whatever parts of the multiverse/hidden dimensions alien visitors have mastered) for the most advanced travellers to Earth since before Modern Humans evolved.

The above would explain why humans have no recollection of visitors from the skies, gods or extraterrestrials showing significant technological advancement throughout human history. They already had reached the ultimate R&D limit, their stuff is as good as it will ever get.

The complex answer tongue imo could easily be (thinking of how old and vast our universe is, probably teeming with evolving forms of life) that some variation IS observable in how the phenomenon engages us, if we are willing to open our eyes: visitor craft come in various shapes, some seem to have religious or paranormal overtones, even to the level of extreme strangeness. Jacques Vallée's research indicates they operate well beyond the boundaries of ET astronauts, supposedly counterparts to our NASA/ESA. ET could turn out as weird as John Carpenter's Ghosts of Mars. Or as biblical Angels conveying God's Word to Man.

To end, any or all of your explanations 1-3 could hold true simultaneously. Why not, reality is humongously vast and virtually forever. I'd expect many different life forms to have come our way. One or more of these could have stayed / kept in touch out of sheer curiosity, wondering where such sentient apes end up. Time (like all kinds of Space) is just another dimension to travel, it makes sense advanced Visitors can, while we are still a few (well.... several) quantum steps short of doing the same.


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xx Re: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Reply #10 on: Oct 15th, 2017, 2:49pm »

Other explanations:

You (we) are misinterpreting cave art, hieroglyphics, medieval iconography, et al. We do not really know what some of the images represent, so some theorist with an agenda is inventing a meaning.

Popular culture is self-perpetuating the alien images we created ourselves. The militaries and aircraft manufacturers around the world have already determined a saucer shaped craft is inefficient and inherently unstable. Why would a civilization capable of interstellar travel use such a poor design for atmospheric travel? They wouldn't, of course, suggesting that 'flying saucers' are not extraterrestrial at all. The saucer image is now so firmly imprinted in people's minds the saucer shape they think they see is best explained as pariedolia.
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xx Re: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 1st, 2017, 09:49am »

Written descriptions in old texts used descriptive words based on things they knew and recognized. A wheel within a wheel, or a flying shield for example. It gave the reader an easy way to picture an image to work from.
With the advent of rockets a long shape that stood on it's tail to launch on a tail of fire, such as a spear or a fiery spear like a Chinese rocket came into use. H.G. Wells described the Martian ships as shells fired from a gigantic gun because that fit the idea of the times as a way to send something a long way. Airships were the description of the late 1800's as balloons were being experimented with.
With the growth of science fiction writing the ships began to be more uniform based loosely on the more popular vehicles used in the genre.
Today many sighting refer to orbs which were not considered as UFOs in the earlier days but as spiritual entities. The term "Borg Cube" has replaced the term building for large squared off objects. Rounded egg shaped objects were seen after a New Mexico sighting. Triangles or delta shapes are now used to describe any 3 points of light moving in the sky. Even though they could be 3 objects in a V formation.
What people say is based on their own frame of reference. As new descriptions enter the human frame of reference from various media what people report changes.
And let's face it a car is just a metal box with wheels that we use to get around. The trim and outside may change in major ways but underneath it is still the same basic machine it was in 1900.
Putting fins on the outside of a saucer just changes the look, and changing the engines inside will not always be obvious.
The bottom line is people will say what they say using the words and references they have to work with.
Why they have been reported for so long is another subject.
Sorry to run on like that.
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xx Re: Different millenia - same U.F.Os: why!?
« Reply #12 on: Dec 2nd, 2017, 08:34am »

Star travel seems limited to a few basic technologies universally employed by multiple star trekking civilizations. Perhaps these few technologies are the end point of physical sciences. The really big boys no longer use technology and are able to bi-locate anywhere or any-when across space/time. These "Ancient Ones, Watchers" or whatever you wish to call them appear wherever they wish and perhaps have been called angels, gods, goddesses by humanity through the ages. We are currently playing with this Noetic science in our psychic warrior program "Star Gate". Our experiments in remote viewing have progressed to projection and now bi-location. (with a little help from our friends)
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