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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Hal's stack.  (Read 10849 times)
drwu23
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #180 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 1:10pm »

on Jun 3rd, 2016, 05:01am, INT21 wrote:
Drwu,

Looks as if we all agree that time is separate to the others.
I'm not sure how Einstein envisaged it, but he certainly seemed to think it a necessary part of his writings.

Reminds me of the time I had a discussion with the younger chemists at work. I asked them if they could draw a triangle with three straight lines and included angles adding up to 270 degrees.

I always thought that chemist were supposed to be clever people. But not on that day.

No doubt all you guys know how it's done.

Oh yes, nearly forgot. Last night on BBC's Newsnight, Elon Musk came out on the side of the universe being part of another civilisation's computer game.
I haven't Googled it yet.

HAL
INT21

smiley


Using the old 'we are just a simulation' of some other intelligence is just pushing the goal post further back since it still begs the question of where or how the other universe got started.
Using that idea one can have an infinite regression of simulations.
And on the same topic...how would one determine if we were a simulation? Is there any way to find out? And how would it be possible for a 'computer simulation', ie, us, to have self awareness?
« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2016, 1:18pm by drwu23 » User IP Logged

INT21
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #181 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 4:04pm »

Ed,

...The 270 degree triangle is one of those trick questions...

Not so tricky if you think in terms of curved space. wink

Drwu,

...And on the same topic...how would one determine if we were a simulation? Is there any way to find out? And how would it be possible for a 'computer simulation', ie, us, to have self awareness?..

I suppose this goes back to the Turin test . I.e. A computer can be called intelligent if you can't distinguish it from a human while holding a conversation with it.

So from that I think we could be simulations created by an intelligence but we only know ourselves and have nothing else to cross reference with.
This also raises once again the question ' if you can't tell the difference between a human and an android, would it matter ?

And Musk is just creating another layer of the 'Who was Gods mother ?' question.

HAL
INT21



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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #182 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 4:42pm »

on Jun 3rd, 2016, 4:04pm, INT21 wrote:
So from that I think we could be simulations created by an intelligence but we only know ourselves and have nothing else to cross reference with.
This also raises once again the question ' if you can't tell the difference between a human and an android, would it matter ?



Why can't we tell the difference?
Is it the Humans that make mistakes?
Or is it possible the "SIM"/"intelligence"/"UNIVERSE" that makes mistakes?
If we are in a "SIM" the data would be the "order" would this data have a
"reason" to be recorded, prior to function, so would not the data be there, in the circle of
TIME
I can't find a reason why this data can not be accessed.
If it has, do you think this would be on the 6 or 7 o'clock news, with the
method so we all could access data.
HAL, I will have to look into the
"TURIN"
test, never heard of it,
THANKS
MW
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #183 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 5:03pm »

on Jun 3rd, 2016, 4:04pm, INT21 wrote:
I suppose this goes back to the Turin test . I.e. A computer can be called intelligent if you can't distinguish it from a human while holding a conversation with it.



HAL/INT21
Made a spelling mistake.
Turin vs Turing
I guess HAL is Human.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test
or maybe, HAL is the machine, making mistakes on purpose,
to reinforce the idea he is Human.
grin
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #184 on: Jun 3rd, 2016, 6:09pm »

on Jun 3rd, 2016, 4:04pm, INT21 wrote:
So from that I think we could be simulations created by an intelligence but we only know ourselves and have nothing else to cross reference with.




Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how enjoyable the ridiculous can be for some) this kinda discussion can go on forever.

Personally I can't see any reason for pondering over it. Not good for the soul.

It gives me the same feeling as hindsight: 'if only I did it that way' etc-- something one tends to do more often as the years pass.... Again> soul destroying. Don't worry about it-- it is what it is & that's that!

All I can say is for the next week or so I'm stuck in a studio with people I dislike immensely-- incredibly painful; simulation or not! cry



Peace.

dej...
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #185 on: Jun 15th, 2016, 12:10pm »

I was wondering about the expanding universe.

The one with millions of stars all moving away from each other; and at an increasing acceleration no less.

And I thought 'if star B is moving away from star A at, say, 1000 miles per second, then as seen from star B, star A is departing at the same speed.

Now, if we have three stars in a row, A, B and C. And star C is moving away from star B at 1000 miles per second, how fast is star C moving away from star A ?

We will assume they are in a straight line. Why not ?

Then as there is an unlimited number of stars (virtually), should we have 100 stars in a row, how fast relative to star A is star 100 traveling?

Maybe one for Cliff.

HAL
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #186 on: Jun 15th, 2016, 6:02pm »

Good question Hal. wink

I would think, depending on the distance, depends on the rate, when viewing the entire picture.....the farther away, the faster it recedes (redshift).

It would seem however, they would be travelling the same rate.

Here's one way of looking at it...

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/expuni.html#c1

Youre speaking of objects of mass which emit photons.....where relativity holds them bound to a certain extent.

Space itself expands .....but at a higher accelerated rate.....it has no mass. A double edged sword if you will in expansion.

We will never see the end of the observable universe.....due to this expansion.....light itself cannot catch up to it.

I could be wrong though....one of my areas of weakness in astronomy
(cosmology/advanced theoretical astrophysics).

smiley

EDIT ; Will add more ..... wink

« Last Edit: Jun 15th, 2016, 6:28pm by Cliff-67 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #187 on: Jun 16th, 2016, 06:28am »


Of course , there is always an oddball like me grin,

and Stephens Quintet.....



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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #188 on: Jun 16th, 2016, 3:17pm »

Cliff,

Hmmmm, Or look at it this way.

A star may emit photons, but it is still a ball of burning gas. It has mass.

So let us pretend that our star A is in fact a large wall ( very very large wall) and at the beginning if the exercise both stars are up against the wall. They set of together (side by side at 1000Miles per second) and so they both have the same relative velocity with respect to The Wall. But no relative velocity relative to each other.

Star C increases it's velocity to 2000 miles per second relative to the wall and from that I gather it will be at twice the velocity as star B relative to the wall but only 1000 miles per second relative to star B.

Star B will observe both the wall and star C moving away from it at 1000 miles per second.

Photons will still be shooting off at 1C which ever way you look at it.

Do you agree with this ?

HAL
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #189 on: Jun 16th, 2016, 5:08pm »



Kind of lost on this one Hal.

However,

~ Photons will be shooting off at 1c whichever way you look at it

Do you agree with this ? ~

Absolutely !!!

Unless they're interrupted by a medium.....

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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #190 on: Jun 16th, 2016, 5:54pm »

Hey you two brainiac's, wizards of equations, magicians of physics,
experts of the red light, I've been troubled by the present day model,
please correct me if I have misunderstood this, the space between things is,
growing, faster and faster, why do I think this should change the orientation
of said things, have we detected said things to change their orientation?
If so, will this expansion exceed the speed of light?
Even if it doesn't, doesn't expansion make it very difficult to put
a age to the entire universe?

Is that your wall HAL?
Red light makes me think of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q58J2CyjIwQ


cool
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #191 on: Jun 16th, 2016, 6:13pm »



Let's see if I can help complicate this further.......This reminds me of Ed's remark concerning infinity..... grin grin grin

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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #192 on: Jun 17th, 2016, 05:16am »

MOKSHA,

Not my wall, I'm just a brick in it.

HAL
INT21.
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #193 on: Jun 17th, 2016, 05:25am »

I have to admit that the idea of everything moving away from everything else is hard to get one's head around.
If everything is moving as such, how does the blue shift of M31 fit into the picture.

Also, some say, there was no single start point for the 'Big Bang'. It was every where at once.

All very confusing.

If everything is moving apart, how will this effect the proposed very long baseline interferometers in space ? Must make for some tricky delay line calculations when it comes to synchronising the signals.

I think I will go do some simple wood work in my shed; Give my brain a rest.

HAL
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #194 on: Jun 17th, 2016, 06:29am »

M31 (Andromeda Galaxy) is one of several companion galaxies to the milky way . It's coming toward us and it's peculiar velocity is larger than it's Hubble recessional velocity. This is possible if it's nearby and approaching us .

One exception in particular that is far beyond my understanding is a galaxy in Stephens Quintet . It is said to be much further out .....one would think that the Hubble recessional velocity would be greater at that distance.....

I'm still studying all of this myself. The math is far beyond my comprehension.....yet I somewhat understand it to a point.....and yes, I do get those nasty headaches at times also.....like right now.....

undecided

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