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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Hal's stack.  (Read 10883 times)
INT21
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #45 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 07:01am »

Sorry Purr, I just don't buy into it.

... carefully train and license those fit to be responsible gun owners ...

And how do you define the above ? Who gets to choose who is or is not fit ?

The same kind of psychologists who allow unstable people to fly planes into mountains ? Perhaps. Or do you say to the Islamic doctor, 'Sorry Ahmed, we just can't trust your judgement; you know why'.

A perfectly stable person can be tipped over the edge in a moment.

Maybe they should make martial arts training compulsory. At least that would make for a level playing field.

HAL
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #46 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 07:21am »

Purr, Further.

If the town you live in is anything like my home town then there will be lots of trouble when people come out of the pubs and night clubs, particularly at week ends.

I don't know if you ever watch these tv programs where a camera follows the activities of the police in the city centres at night. The most regular problem is street fights.
Often groups of young men (and/or women\) punching and kicking the stuffing out of each other. Or where some youth has be either thrown out of a club or refused entry by the bouncers.

If all these people, most of whom are quite normal when not under the influence of alcohol, were to be allowed to carry guns then the carnage would be total.

Back in the 'seventies I worked as a cab driver for a while. The calm cheerful blokes I would pick up in the morning and maybe after work could become close to being beserkers after 2 am. And yet in the morning it was as if noting had happened.

Human nature does not allow for the carrying of weapons. We don't allow it here. I like apples, but can't bite into them due to dental problems. So I carry a small pocket knife to enable me to slice them up. This little knife with it's fold away two and a half inch blade is enough to get me a jail sentence should I ever get stopped.

If carrying guns was the answer, America should be violence free by know; should it not ?

HAL
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #47 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 07:31am »

on Oct 6th, 2015, 07:01am, INT21 wrote:
Sorry Purr, I just don't buy into it.

... carefully train and license those fit to be responsible gun owners ...

And how do you define the above ? Who gets to choose who is or is not fit ?

The same kind of psychologists who allow unstable people to fly planes into mountains ? Perhaps. Or do you say to the Islamic doctor, 'Sorry Ahmed, we just can't trust your judgement; you know why'.

A perfectly stable person can be tipped over the edge in a moment.

Maybe they should make martial arts training compulsory. At least that would make for a level playing field.

HAL
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It's not just dr. Ahmed, it's everyone having it out with their excruciating neighbours' and their garden (rhymes with) shipping dog. I'm not saying you are wrong. Policy in the UK is headed well away from any 2nd amendment proclivities, and that is your democratic choice, something I fully respect.

And arming the population is sure to enliven the job of UK police officers. (As is the case in the States.)

HOWEVER, maintaining an unarmed populace imo delivers this UK generation and future ones, all patiently waiting for civilization to set in, into the (remarkably well armed) hands of robbers, rapists, murderers, psychopaths and terrorists. We have given them 10-15 minutes until police arrives, depending on location, to do their thing, have their way with us.


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« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2015, 03:49am by purr » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #48 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 07:58am »

on Oct 6th, 2015, 07:21am, INT21 wrote:

If carrying guns was the answer, America should be violence free by know; should it not ?



HAL/INT21, not merely carrying, but nationally mandated, rigorously licenced, responsible gun ownership, paired with standardized training.

My (inevitably oversimplified) summary of US gun problems is to conclude that psychopaths can get legal guns, while criminals over there think they died and went to illegal gun HEAVEN.

My (admittedly somewhat harebrained) solution has America's gun culture do one step down, and UK's (+Northern Europe) one step up.

In essence, I want citizens to be able to handle their own/home/family security, at the lowest level needed. Deter, slow down and resist criminals wherever they attempt to commit an act of violence, until such time police arrives on the scene. Guns are the simplest way imo to achieve this.


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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #49 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 09:24am »

on Oct 6th, 2015, 07:21am, INT21 wrote:
If carrying guns was the answer, America should be violence free by know; should it not ?


Touche, sir.

I think it was the 1970's television show character Archie Bunker who once said something to the effect that the solution to planes being hijacked was to issue firearms to all passengers as they board the airline. smiley
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #50 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 12:37pm »

on Oct 6th, 2015, 09:24am, jjflash wrote:
Touche, sir.

I think it was the 1970's television show character Archie Bunker who once said something to the effect that the solution to planes being hijacked was to issue firearms to all passengers as they board the airline. smiley


Or perhaps Archie was right, especially with the loss of your World Trade centers and other 9/11 plane attacks in mind: getting shot at by any number of highly qualified marksmen / women among the passengers licenced to conceal-carry will take the fun out of hijacking in a godarn instant, Jjflash.

The Archie Bunker show was soo funny cheesy because we all in our minds eye saw that plane full of guncrazies ex-POL-ODE in middair! Factual basis for all that? ... Not!! smiley

The United States Federal Air Marshal Service tested and used the Glaser Safety Slug extensively in the 1970s and 80s on board commercial passenger aircraft to defend against hijackers. Air Marshals are now issued SIG Sauer P229 pistols with a 12-round capacity firing conventional-jacketed hollow point ammunition in .357 SIG caliber.

Two vital bits of info in quoted wikipedia paragraph. 1. The USFAMS, charged with onboard civilian aviation security, has fully familiarized itself with the Glaser munitions which may wound/stop hijjackers, YET DO NOT PENETRATE THE HULL. (Regardless whether a marshall or civilian fired such bullets during a terrorist threat.) 2. US Marshalls eventually selected a conventional bullet, presumably for their stopping power, and because the science says even if they miss it is unlikely to bring down a modern jetliner. (These highly dedicated officers do not intend to miss.)

The show's premise, godblessem for years of great entertainment, was ah.. wrong, Jj...


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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #51 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 2:42pm »

Purr,
Some of that info is incorrect. The Air marshals have stopped using .357 Sig in favor of the .40 cal. The Sig round, even with hollow points has a habit of passing through the human body where as the .40 retains 90% of it's energy and still stays within the hijacker!

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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #52 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 4:10pm »

Ok, so which would you folks prefer to be on.

A A plane that may have a bad guy on board, but no one has a gun.

Or

B A plane full of nervous people who don't really want to be there but have to fly to get about, all carrying guns ?

Two points to consider.

There are very, very few armed attacks on planes.


A plane full of frightened passengers that gets into a turbulence situation (quite common, but really no big risk to plane or people, just hard on the nerves and the underware) when one or more wants to get off the plane right now. blind panic spreads very quickly.

Think a bit about that.

Flying, like driving you car, is a numbers game. one day yours may come up.


Frequent fliers views are particularly welcome.

HAL
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« Reply #53 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 6:24pm »

Something for you guys to consider.

In the UK (all four nations) with it's no guns policy and a population of 64.5 million people, there were 600 (six hundred) murders last year.

The USA , with a population of 321.7 million, many of which believe that more guns means more safety, had how many murders (all causes) for the same period ?

I'll be fair and let one of my American colleagues fill in the missing number.

But I predict it is higher than the population difference (approx five times}ratio would predict it to be. i.e 3000.

HAL
INT21

Addendum.

A quick example gleaned from wiki.

New York (city) Population 8.5 million. murders 328

Chicago 2.7 million 407


Total 11.2 million 735

just for two cities.
« Last Edit: Oct 7th, 2015, 07:12am by INT21 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #54 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 6:57pm »

You have American colleagues ?
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« Reply #55 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 7:42pm »

I'm still envisioning being on a plane in which a couple hundred passengers are clutching handguns so tightly their fingers are white, when the attendants begin asking, "Cocktails?"

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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #56 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 9:49pm »

It's odd to find no one mentions the requirement of 'references' as to the person requesting a CCW or any other request.
After all,wouldn't people ,which know this person,after many many years,having lived in the vicinity of them,interacted with them,know them better than anyone?

IMHO,That,above all,should be prerequisite of any request to harbor a deadly weapon,or an ability to be capable of such.
Laws are waaay too lax.
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« Reply #57 on: Oct 7th, 2015, 06:51am »

Gort,

...You have American colleagues ?...


Colleague
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1. a person with whom one works in a profession or business




A slightly loose interpretation of the word; perhaps.

But as we here are part of a joint venture, a 'collegiate' of like minds if you prefer, then yes.

Your surprise surprises me.

HAL
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xx Re: Hal's stack.
« Reply #58 on: Oct 7th, 2015, 09:44am »

on Oct 7th, 2015, 06:51am, INT21 wrote:
Gort,

...You have American colleagues ?...


Colleague
noun

1. a person with whom one works in a profession or business




A slightly loose interpretation of the word; perhaps.

But as we here are part of a joint venture, a 'collegiate' of like minds if you prefer, then yes.

Your surprise surprises me.

HAL
INT21

smiley


just a light hearted joke, sorry for that.
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« Reply #59 on: Oct 7th, 2015, 11:11am »

Gort,

No worries.

I assumed you were just fishing for a response.

Joke appreciated.

HAL
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