Board Logo
« Water, atmosphere and life on the moon »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Nov 19th, 2017, 6:07pm


Visit the UFO Casebook Web Site

*Totally FREE 24/7 Access *Your Nickname and Avatar *Private Messages

*Join today and be a part of one of the largest UFO sites on the Net.


« Previous Topic | Next Topic »
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 12 13 14  ...  59 Notify Send Topic Print
 locked  Author  Topic: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon  (Read 58351 times)
positron
New Member
Image


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 0
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #165 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 3:34pm »

yes.. well, i wanted to note in the last post, US did impose themselves
as a world wide authority on the matter. it seems they made a deal with all
(or most of) world nations immediately after ww2 that makes them the authority
for all ufo crashes worldwide. i don't know how they managed to pull that out, but
money and power do miracles.

for the last part about coverup not being "monstrous" 'cause et's are ugly and scary..
i can say et's look exactly like us in more than 50% of cases, for our solar system
that goes up probably up to 90% or more. so it has never been so much about
protecting the public from ugly truth, far more maintaining control and rule over
public by NOT allowing the beautiful truth coming out.

there is a book by phoenix journals, it has a great summary of goingons from the roswell,
to eisenhower starting up MJ12, coverup, moonbase "LUNA", underground bases (dumbs)
on earth and much more from the pen of "hatonn". i think you will find it highly informative.

http://www.fourwinds10.net/journals/pdf/J003.pdf

EDIT:

here is a spoiler from the book:

User Image

on Feb 21st, 2016, 1:30pm, purr wrote:
Allowing for a degree of uncertainty (due to elusive proof and continued classification), I agree with your correction. I put in the US reference because I think they got the ball rolling late 1940s, with many national allies (and enemies like the Sovjets) falling in line over decades, discreetly helping maintain true alien knowledge Above Top Secret towards respective national constituencies.

To my mind the (very real) Roswell Incident served as seminal event, necessitating president Truman to initiate the Majestic-12 investigation into the strange alien visitors. I'm not sure if Hitler and his cronies already had made contact with the little fellers prior to the New Mexico impact, but would be interested to find out cheesy. If so, it could mean ET has terrible taste in friends?

That said, I'm not at all convinced we are dealing with a "monstrous" conspiracy, maybe just a weird one. (Because the Visitors turned out weird/bizarre beyond imagination.)


purr
« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2016, 4:13pm by positron » User IP Logged

positron
New Member
Image


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 0
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #166 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 3:39pm »

User Image

on Feb 21st, 2016, 3:21pm, Gort wrote:
I know your mother, POST IT we want to see the little turd.


NO BALLS


SYS can find you in a heart beat.


Here is your email

mailto:niksa@ponistra.net


where do you live tough guy.


On a private note come meet me, use pm.
User IP Logged

positron
New Member
Image


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 0
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #167 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 4:08pm »

seen it years ago. be careful when using term original for apollo slides.
what you see on nasa site is hardly ever an original, but heavily processed, greyed out, overexposed, flipped version of the original.

on Feb 21st, 2016, 12:59pm, Cliff-67 wrote:
Hi Positron....please go to nasa.gov. apollo 08 image archives...as08-12-2196. Have a look at the original.

User IP Logged

purr
Global Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

..you talkin' to me...YOU TALKIN' TO ME..??!


PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 4828
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #168 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 4:11pm »

on Feb 20th, 2016, 2:37pm, GhostofEd wrote:
purr, is it worthy of being debunked? The word debunked sets a tone and starts to play the victim card IMO. You can't question any of the evidence because none has really been presented. You end up trying to disprove the conspiracy angle which says nothing about the validity of the claims. The burden of proof and research is being tossed back to the skeptic when it should be put forward by the person making the extraordinary claim. It's backwards logic.

I don't agree with your suggestion that the writers of the paper I linked to manipulated the images and used confirmation bias to support their conclusions. I think they followed the science and knowledge as best known. Should they have started using speculative and questionable procedures? I'm sure this paper was peer reviewed and had several iterations before being published. I'll have to stand by the judgement of those more versed in spectral analysis procedures and how it applies to geophysical research. Of course one can say this was a cover up (without proof) and we're back to square one. If the conclusions are wrong then the opportunity is there for others to take the raw data and form new opinions. Perhaps a believer in a life filled green moon should do it and present it. I won't hold my breath. I wonder how many others here read the paper. I linked it because it should be read by both sides of the debate and is an example how one can possibly learn something from what some think is a worthless thread.

Now what is missing in this moon discussion (is it even a discussion?) are any references and studies that support positrons position. (I like that term positron position) Where's something meaningful to discuss? When one has to start off asking where a certain image came from, how taken, by whom, when, etc. it's a bad start. We are told it is obvious the images show life, vegetation, water so that's end of story and to believe otherwise is being duped by the PTB's. Same for claims by individuals (authors?) wrapped in stories of extraordinary things i.e., teleportation of veggies from a truck. A picture of some person we are asked to believe is an ET. Who are these people, their evidence besides biased UFO shows/videos asking one to believe their and acquaintances stories?

Where's the beef? Without it there's nothing to discuss except the philosophical difference between probable and possible. I eat my oats because I do not believe it is possible to survive on water alone. grin


OK, that's perfectly fair of course, GhostofEd smiley. Takes a few steps to get where you want to take us. I agree Positron's Moon hypothesis, for now a presentation of his beliefs and interpretation of space imagery and conspiracy lore, need not be debunked. I didn't try of course, I'm just sincerely interested in this kind of thinking and more than happy to help the member along / ask for further explanations. Furthermore (still agreeing with'ya here) Positron's position (..nice ring to that..!!) imo does not amount to a theory in the scientific sense. For that I want FACTS to base the entire logic chain on, and common sense/subjective interpretation of photos does not constitute such a firm foundation.

However, Ed, we are not in a University, we are (for the most part) not scientists. This forum is just a conversation between internet friends! Thus I have no problem with the thread author proposing unique insights into reality, nor with the forum engaging Positron and each other in spirited debate. Again, 'debunking' unnecessary, it suffices to agree / disagree and share why so.

Burden of proof lies with Positron, and for as long as he's willing to add information, I'm encouraging him to answer all questions to the best of his ability. That's what lively debate is all about, and like Reasoner asserted earlier: readers will decide which version of truth/reality makes the most sense.

To end, I wasn't questioning the scientific caliber of your linked spectrum analysis text. Instead it intrinsic logic makes clear such Clementine probe results, which may be more or less reliable/accurate (does NASA ever err or lie? wink), are fundamental to how the imagery was colored in, and which filters were selected, thus its final visual appearance (note the difference between Color vs. Bl.&W.) may be called interpretive.

NASA believed the crater-lakes were solid volcanoes, so that's how they made them look. Weird (and here I'm leaning towards Positron's ideas) that in spite of all this effort, they STILL seem reminiscent of our planet's bodies of water, especially volcanic lakes.....


purr
« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2016, 4:25pm by purr » User IP Logged

Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

-RONALD REAGAN
Lawdzilla
Full Member
ImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 78
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #169 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 4:35pm »

on Feb 21st, 2016, 4:08pm, positron wrote:
seen it years ago. be careful when using term original for apollo slides.
what you see on nasa site is hardly ever an original, but heavily processed, greyed out, overexposed, flipped version of the original.



Yeah thats what conspiracy theorists claim.
User IP Logged

Cliff-67
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 1935
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #170 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 4:38pm »

on Feb 21st, 2016, 4:08pm, positron wrote:
seen it years ago. be careful when using term original for apollo slides.
what you see on nasa site is hardly ever an original, but heavily processed, greyed out, overexposed, flipped version of the original.



Thats where the image came from in your first post. Thats what im referring to. The image you posted has false color added........it says it in the post. Added from what ?

ORIGINAL NASA ARCHIVES.......

Peace
User IP Logged

NEE NED ZB 6TNN DEIBEDH SIEFI EBEEE SSIEI ESEE SEEE !!
positron
New Member
Image


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 0
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #171 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 4:55pm »

neither the one i posted nor the one on nasa.gov are originals.
the one at nasa is a fake airbrushed washed out version.

the one i posted comes from holyconservancy.org (no longer available). it has false color added as well as contrast correction, but it has details (not results of color/ contrast correction) lacking
in the nasa.gov version.






on Feb 21st, 2016, 4:38pm, Cliff-67 wrote:
Thats where the image came from in your first post. Thats what im referring to. The image you posted has false color added........it says it in the post. Added from what ?

ORIGINAL NASA ARCHIVES.......

Peace
User IP Logged

GhostofEd
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

You know, I'm like a smart person


PM


Posts: 1413
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #172 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 5:07pm »

on Feb 21st, 2016, 4:11pm, purr wrote:
NASA believed the crater-lakes were solid volcanoes, so that's how they made them look. Weird (and here I'm leaning towards Positron's ideas) that in spite of all this effort, they STILL seem reminiscent of our planet's bodies of water, especially of volcanic lakes.....
purr

purr, you'll have to expand on this. What images in particular are you saying NASA enhanced(?) to look like what they wanted? You know that something looking like water does not make it water especially when there are indicators to the contrary. No serious researcher goes by pictorials alone (excluding spectral, UV and other filtering). Sure, if there is nothing else to go on there may be tentative hypothesis's but you won't see any solid conclusions being taken seriously. That rigor should be demanded of the scientific community as well as the alternate view advocates. What's fair is fair. grin

I could argue they did not change any images because they were not too successful since some people still think it's water or other signs of life they see.

This touches on another post questioning original images and that they don't look like what is shown elsewhere or believed changed. My understanding is that except for images intended for press and other publication releases i.e., advertising, etc. to put the best pleasing images out to the general public (who wants to see an off centered tilted image on the cover of Time Magazine!), is that raw images are available with minimal enhancement required to recompose the data into an image. This is for digital captures because images sent back are not a jpg but rather data that has to adjusted to account for the calibration of the camera, sensors and other variables. Old film is scanned and the procedure used is readily obtainable. But we've been down this road before in the thread from 1.5 years ago. I'm not going to rehash what was discussed regarding that aspect of this discussion.
User IP Logged

"The concept of shaking hands is absolutely terrible, and statistically Iíve been proven right."

~ D. Trump 2004
Lawdzilla
Full Member
ImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 78
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #173 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 5:15pm »

They do some enhancing to bring out things the human eye would never see. I found this article on Space.com:

http://www.space.com/9337-conspiracy-debunked-nasa-photoshops-images-good-reason.html
User IP Logged

purr
Global Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

..you talkin' to me...YOU TALKIN' TO ME..??!


PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 4828
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #174 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 5:24pm »

on Feb 21st, 2016, 5:07pm, GhostofEd wrote:
purr, you'll have to expand on this. What images in particular are you saying NASA enhanced(?) to look like what they wanted?


Great question to help with our discussion, Ed! Made me realize I passed this way before (as you have, maybe with the same players just at other sites, using other avatars). I think I'll try and explain what I think of moon images, and how they are generated, primarily using your linked article as scientific source.

Turning in now (past midnight in the Netherlands), I will do my homework in the morning smiley.


purr
User IP Logged

Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

-RONALD REAGAN
positron
New Member
Image


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 0
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #175 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 5:29pm »

surely not based on the photos they release to the public.
of all the photos i posted not one comes from public nasa
archives, not one. they come from private owners not even
i know the exact source for them all + russian zond orbiter.


on Feb 21st, 2016, 5:07pm, GhostofEd wrote:
purr, you'll have to expand on this. What images in particular are you saying NASA enhanced(?) to look like what they wanted? You know that something looking like water does not make it water especially when there are indicators to the contrary. No serious researcher goes by pictorials alone (excluding spectral, UV and other filtering). Sure, if there is nothing else to go on there may be tentative hypothesis's but you won't see any solid conclusions being taken seriously. That rigor should be demanded of the scientific community as well as the alternate view advocates. What's fair is fair. grin

I could argue they did not change any images because they were not too successful since some people still think it's water or other signs of life they see.

This touches on another post questioning original images and that they don't look like what is shown elsewhere or believed changed. My understanding is that except for images intended for press and other publication releases i.e., advertising, etc. to put the best pleasing images out to the general public (who wants to see an off centered tilted image on the cover of Time Magazine!), is that raw images are available with minimal enhancement required to recompose the data into an image. This is for digital captures because images sent back are not a jpg but rather data that has to adjusted to account for the calibration of the camera, sensors and other variables. Old film is scanned and the procedure used is readily obtainable. But we've been down this road before in the thread from 1.5 years ago. I'm not going to rehash what was discussed regarding that aspect of this discussion.
User IP Logged

positron
New Member
Image


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 0
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #176 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 5:41pm »

i will repost few of the photos, to keep them in sight;

zond 6

User Image

User Image

crop of the photo above

User Image

User IP Logged

positron
New Member
Image


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 0
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #177 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 5:47pm »

User Image

User Image
User IP Logged

GhostofEd
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

You know, I'm like a smart person


PM


Posts: 1413
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #178 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 6:15pm »

OK. Here are the 2 images Cliff asked about. The left image is the one from holyconservancy.org per positron and the one on the right is from NASA archives. The NASA image was rotated 90 degrees counter clockwise (perhaps to keep the orientation consistent with as actually viewed when picture taken)
PS - Don't go to that org site because it looks spam and virus infected.

User Image

These look to be the same image when over layed in Photoshop except the one on the left is colorized, contrast and tonally adjusted. My opinion is they are based on the same starting image. My experience tells me that it is easier to enhance the NASA version up to the color one then vice versa.

The EXIF data of the color version shows it went through Photoshop CS3 on a Mac in 2008. NASA image has no EXIF data.

I next want to look at where this fits into the above images.
User Image

User IP Logged

"The concept of shaking hands is absolutely terrible, and statistically Iíve been proven right."

~ D. Trump 2004
positron
New Member
Image


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 0
xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #179 on: Feb 21st, 2016, 6:38pm »

these two versions of as08-12-2196 obviosuly came from the same source image, but that is where
ALL the similarities end. the one on the right has no information left in it was airbrushed, contrast decreased
and brightness increased, no detail left overall + little craters painted into the tsiolkovsky like in all imagery of it.
the one of the left has flase color and was contrast corrected, but it has the real DATA missing from the right one.
if you work with graphics you will know lost data is lost and no algorithm cannot bring back what's been lost.

as for the second image you said you wanna see where it fits, it also shows tsiolkovsky, like stated times before,
only at much lower altitude, looking in eastern direction (W>E) over the islet next to the western shore.


on Feb 21st, 2016, 6:15pm, GhostofEd wrote:
OK. Here are the 2 images Cliff asked about. The left image is the one from holyconservancy.org per positron and the one on the right is from NASA archives. The NASA image was rotated 90 degrees counter clockwise (perhaps to keep the orientation consistent with as actually viewed when picture taken)
PS - Don't go to that org site because it looks spam and virus infected.

User Image

These look to be the same image when over layed in Photoshop except the one on the left is colorized, contrast and tonally adjusted. My opinion is they are based on the same starting image. My experience tells me that it is easier to enhance the NASA version up to the color one then vice versa.

The EXIF data of the color version shows it went through Photoshop CS3 on a Mac in 2008. NASA image has no EXIF data.

I next want to look at where this fits into the above images.
User Image

User IP Logged

Pages: 1 ... 10 11 12 13 14  ...  59 Notify Send Topic Print
« Previous Topic | Next Topic »

Become a member of the UFO Casebook Forum today and join our more than 19,000 members.

Visit the UFO Casebook Web Site

Donate $6.99 for 50,000 Ad-Free Pageviews!

| |

This forum powered for FREE by Conforums ©
Sign up for your own Free Message Board today!
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Conforums Support | Parental Controls