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Swamprat
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #225 on: Mar 21st, 2016, 5:13pm »

In the case of Jones, I think that would be RIGHT field..... grin
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #226 on: Mar 21st, 2016, 7:13pm »

it is true people were not ready back then and are obviously not ready now, but regardless, real reason for secrecy was always exclusively maintaining the control over the masses, that is, protecting the interests of the (often satanic) elites. same goes for protecting the "stabilizing influence" of false scientific paradigm (where free energy is "impossible", despite being so simple), dogmatic and false religions (where they teach we are born with a sin and we must fear god)..

so, all the potential threats you noted are not threats to the people but to the system. system that is based on lies and deception must change, but you obviously don't agree with that. and while those same elites (government / military-industrial complex) denied the truth to the public, to keep us ignorant and warring among each other, they used peoples money to create a breakaway civilization, living like gods with free energy and star-trek like technology, traveling to other planets etc. not to mention cia trading cocain and heroin to fund these black project, kiddnaping children etc. i guess you think that is fine too. i hope not.

in conclusion, truth may be upsetting (more or less), but is no reason to perpetuate the crime that still goes on.



on Mar 21st, 2016, 11:46am, purr wrote:
Uh... I kinda doubt that the American President ought to be a 'spiritual' leader! Rightful yes, but that's a matter of ensuring a fair system of election imo. Personally (if I were a US citizen) I wouldn't vote Trump for POTUS, but if the American People give him their vote, my country the Netherlands, as always, will work with him as a 'friendly president' because he was so elected. Hilary Clinton (or just about any borderline-sane Democrat) would be more of a default preference for folks over here, but I do note she has a marked difficulty playing nice. Case of an attack dog personality.

I also wish Alex Jones would stop shouting during his vids, so I could make out what the hell he's saying. cheesy

My reply # 220 pointed out some four areas of theoretical harm (1. American collective self-confidence, 2. Faith/Wordview, 3. sense of Military Power, 4. Democratic System of Government) to American society (focussing on 1950s) if the arrival of real alien visitors would have become public knowledge. Pos1tron, maybe you would have been comfortable with it, but you are not everybody, and a government must look at the big picture. The whole of US society. The economy. Perpetuation of stable government and national security. Ensuring Institutions of Science and Religion retain their respective stabilizing influence.

Adding (from earlier posts) the notion of ETs making dire predictions of future catastrophe, like Culture Ending or Extinction Level Events. Knowledge affecting the American FUTURE.

Upsetting stuff... (What is True, not always is Good.)


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #227 on: Mar 22nd, 2016, 02:44am »

on Mar 21st, 2016, 7:13pm, pos1tron wrote:
it is true people were not ready back then and are obviously not ready now, but regardless, real reason for secrecy was always exclusively maintaining the control over the masses, that is, protecting the interests of the (often satanic) elites. same goes for protecting the "stabilizing influence" of false scientific paradigm (where free energy is "impossible", despite being so simple), dogmatic and false religions (where they teach we are born with a sin and we must fear god)..

so, all the potential threats you noted are not threats to the people but to the system. system that is based on lies and deception must change, but you obviously don't agree with that. and while those same elites (government / military-industrial complex) denied the truth to the public, to keep us ignorant and warring among each other, they used peoples money to create a breakaway civilization, living like gods with free energy and star-trek like technology, traveling to other planets etc. not to mention cia trading cocain and heroin to fund these black project, kiddnaping children etc. i guess you think that is fine too. i hope not.

in conclusion, truth may be upsetting (more or less), but is no reason to perpetuate the crime that still goes on.





Seems as if you're pretty cavalier about people (still focussing on 1950s America, 'cause there's where a thingy hit the ground 1947 NM) coming to harm, as long as it's done in the name of Truth, and bringing down the evil system!

Careful: there's such a thing as 'operation a succes - patient deceased' tongue, Pos1tron.

Simply, we're not talking about Roswell and subsequent official cover-up happening today in 2016, with you standing next to it recording the whole shenigan on phonecam (uploading to Facebook, Wikileaks whatever).

I think the Roswell impact was an authentic event, it was 1947 and PEOPLE TRUSTED THEIR GOV, and as such were part of "the system"! When the government told folks to shut the hell up for national security reasons, that is (mostly) what they did.

It may be unfortunate that US/human society at that point continued based on incomplete/false information. But once it did, with its pillars American Pride, Faith, Military Superiority and Democratic Government, introducing advanced Alien Visitors risked (to the minds of Truman and Eisenhower) bringing the whole thing crashing down.

If panicked suddenly, the grazing complacent herd may stampede ya'know. (Stop paying rent, debts, attending school, going to work, obeying the law, either to head for the hills or removing their lying conniving leadership.)

Imo the president's ultimate boss is not The Truth or God, but the US Constitution (keeping the People Free, not descending into bloody anarchy).


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #228 on: Mar 22nd, 2016, 5:30pm »

once again, allow us to agree to disagree. trump and eisenhowere sure feared that the truth would bring too many changes on every level, but, they sure did not fear it for the well being of the masses, they feared to lose control and POWER over them.

you mention roswell, but you will come to learn, there have been many crash retrievals before it, spaceships intact, at least as early as 1932. they realized early on these craft were like big flywheel capacitors. it is in (low) human nature that when they come into possesion of something of higher value, they tend to hide it. i don't think there would've been mass panic if they told the truth in thoughtful and friendly way. priror to this education of the masses would've been desirable so they can accept it more easily.

i agree president's boss is the constitution and it grants people's freedom. but you speak like you don't see what's going on. like there is no plot on the side of government and financial elite to take away every freedom from the americans, to poison them and destory their life, spirit and intelligence in every possible and impossible way. or maybe you think that is a "conspiracy theory" and american (and other) government / financial elite are really working for the good of the masses.

but this happens not beacause those little devils are so powerful but because masses allow it. most still choose devil in disguise over truth and wisdom. it is all part of the script, so there is no judgment, but it will not be allowed to go on for much longer.

on Mar 22nd, 2016, 02:44am, purr wrote:
Seems as if you're pretty cavalier about people (still focussing on 1950s America, 'cause there's where a thingy hit the ground 1947 NM) coming to harm, as long as it's done in the name of Truth, and bringing down the evil system!

Careful: there's such a thing as 'operation a succes - patient deceased' tongue, Pos1tron.

Simply, we're not talking about Roswell and subsequent official cover-up happening today in 2016, with you standing next to it recording the whole shenigan on phonecam (uploading to Facebook, Wikileaks whatever).

I think the Roswell impact was an authentic event, it was 1947 and PEOPLE TRUSTED THEIR GOV, and as such were part of "the system"! When the government told folks to shut the hell up for national security reasons, that is (mostly) what they did.

It may be unfortunate that US/human society at that point continued based on incomplete/false information. But once it did, with its pillars American Pride, Faith, Military Superiority and Democratic Government, introducing advanced Alien Visitors risked (to the minds of Truman and Eisenhower) bringing the whole thing crashing down.

If panicked suddenly, the grazing complacent herd may stampede ya'know. (Stop paying rent, debts, attending school, going to work, obeying the law, either to head for the hills or removing their lying conniving leadership.)

Imo the president's ultimate boss is not The Truth or God, but the US Constitution (keeping the People Free, not descending into bloody anarchy).


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #229 on: Mar 24th, 2016, 05:43am »

on Mar 22nd, 2016, 5:30pm, pos1tron wrote:
once again, allow us to agree to disagree. trump and eisenhowere sure feared that the truth would bring too many changes on every level, but, they sure did not fear it for the well being of the masses, they feared to lose control and POWER over them.

you mention roswell, but you will come to learn, there have been many crash retrievals before it, spaceships intact, at least as early as 1932. they realized early on these craft were like big flywheel capacitors. it is in (low) human nature that when they come into possesion of something of higher value, they tend to hide it. i don't think there would've been mass panic if they told the truth in thoughtful and friendly way. priror to this education of the masses would've been desirable so they can accept it more easily.

i agree president's boss is the constitution and it grants people's freedom. but you speak like you don't see what's going on. like there is no plot on the side of government and financial elite to take away every freedom from the americans, to poison them and destory their life, spirit and intelligence in every possible and impossible way. or maybe you think that is a "conspiracy theory" and american (and other) government / financial elite are really working for the good of the masses.

but this happens not beacause those little devils are so powerful but because masses allow it. most still choose devil in disguise over truth and wisdom. it is all part of the script, so there is no judgment, but it will not be allowed to go on for much longer.



Pos1tron, make no mistake, I respect your opinion and am interested to read your elaboration. But we are not juxtapositioning 'Conspiracy Theory' vs 'No conspiracy' but instead you and me are modelling two ALTERNATIVE conspiracy theories smiley. (There multiple versions proposed on our site, if you have opportunity, ask our esteemed member Carolnistri how she feels about the US government going for full disclosure, publishing all they know about extraterrestrial visitation, may yet be another interesting perspective!)

And I note you're making a (somewhat) extraordinary claim. You suggest US presidents (at least since Truman) and their administration are evilly intentioned, scheming to inflict harm on Americans. Historical question, right? What is your historical evidence for such a terrible accusation?

Note my claims, althoug UFO related, were 'ordinary' in the sense I took my info from historical studies (like historian Simon Schama's The American Future*), saying 1950's real-world America had vulnerabilities, a collective sense of Self, especially with religious (betcha about a 3rd of Americans believed God had created the universe in 7 days) and militaristic (=US superiority) overtones, which could cause dreadful harm to the country IF SUDDENLY EXPOSED TO REALISTIC ET-INFO. ET's and their advanced knowledge imo would have exploded the American psyche.

Thus, to my mind, whatever Truman's and Eisenhower's intent, they did the right thing(!) by shielding Americans from the full realization of visitors capable of traversing Space and/or the Multiverse, of (according to Whitley Strieber and others) modelling the future, including extinction level catastrophe. Stuff we at the time were not equipped to handle psychologically and as societies.

I think they did something right...


purr

P.S. *)unvetted/commercial link to The American Future, by Simon Schama.
« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2016, 06:30am by purr » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #230 on: Mar 24th, 2016, 06:26am »

PURR,

TO WIT:

"Thus, to my mind, whatever Truman's and Eisenhower's intent, they did the right thing(!) by shielding Americans from the full realization of visitors capable of traversing Space and/or the Multiverse, of (according to Whitley Strieber and others) modelling the future, including extinction level catastrophe. Stuff we at the time were not equipped to handle psychologically and as societies.

I think they did something right..."

I'M WITH YA ~ THAT BLINK IN THE REALIZATION THAT >>> WE ARE NOT ALONE <<< (OF COURSE THE AFOREMENTIONED IS PREDICATED ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT WE HAVE BEEN CONTACTED AND THE GUBMINT KNOWS) ~ CIRCA FIRST CONTACT ~ WOULD HAVE INDEED RESULTED IN THE DEER IN THE HEADLIGHT SYNDROME...

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HOWEVER TO NUDGE THINGS ALONG ~ WAS THERE AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE 'PTB' AND THE VISITORS TO ACCLIMATE SOCIETY TO ( 'ET' ~ EXTRATERRESTRIAL/ 'ED' ~ EXTRA-DIMENSIONAL) AT SOME JUNCTURE IN THE FUTURE ~ ALWAYS PONDERED SUCH...OR SHALL IT ALWAYS REMAIN AN ELUSIVE TRUTH?...



FROM THE SCRIPT 'WAR OF THE WORLDS'...

COLUMBIA BROADCASTING SYSTEM
ORSON WELLES AND MERCURY THEATRE ON THE AIR
SUNDAY, OCTOBER 30, 1938
8:00 TO 9:00 P.M.

User Image

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/mars/wow.htm

"PHILLIPS: Ladies and gentlemen, you've just heard Mr. Wilmuth, owner of the farm where this thing has fallen. I wish I could convey the atmosphere . . . the background of this . . . fantastic scene. Hundreds of cars are parked in a field in back of us. Police are trying to rope off the roadway leading to the farm. But it's no use. They're breaking right through. Cars' headlights throw an enormous spot on the pit where the object's half buried. Some of the more daring souls are now venturing near the edge. Their silhouettes stand out against the metal sheen.

(FAINT HUMMING SOUND)
One man wants to touch the thing . . . he's having an argument with a policeman. The policeman wins. . . . Now, ladies and gentlemen, there's something I haven't mentioned in all this excitement, but now it's becoming more distinct. Perhaps you've caught it already on your radio. Listen:

(LONG PAUSE) . . .

Do you hear it? It's a curious humming sound that seems to come from inside the object. I'll move the microphone nearer. (PAUSE) Now we're not more then twenty-five feet away. Can you hear it now? Oh, Professor Pierson!"

SHALOM...Z




« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2016, 06:29am by ZETAR » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #231 on: Mar 24th, 2016, 06:32am »

Yes, Sir.


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #232 on: Mar 24th, 2016, 06:32am »

my view may have sounded a bit more sincere than it probably actually was, at least in the very beginning of the coverup. i didn't mean to say their intentions were truly evil or even against american people. their act of deliberate denial was partially justified for the reasons you well noted. but, as eisenhower soon realized himself, it gave rise to "misplaced power", that is, the rise of military-industrial complex. so as they intensified the campaign of ridicule and denial, in parallel they started to build an interplanetary empire that had an agenda of it's own, with no regard for the civilian populus.

infamous MJ12 was actually established by eisenhower in 1954 by secret executive memorandum, NSC 540/1 as a permanent committee to oversee and conduct all cover activities concerned with the alien question. eisenhower entrusted nelson rockefeller with oversight and control over this committee. it wasn't much later when eisenhower realized what a huge mistake he made and gave his famous speech on "misplaced power". it was too late already since, at that time, they were already deeply in cooperation with negative alien race from orion, sharing mutliple underground bases on earth and the moon (base "luna"), while population was laughing at the very idea of a "flying saucer".

on Mar 24th, 2016, 05:43am, purr wrote:
Pos1tron, make no mistake, I respect your opinion and am interested to read your elaboration. But we are not juxtapositioning 'Conspiracy Theory' vs 'No conspiracy' but instead you and me are modelling two ALTERNATIVE conspiracy theories smiley. (There multiple versions proposed on our site, if you have opportunity, ask our esteemed member Carolnistri how she feels about the US government going for full disclosure, publishing all they know about extraterrestrial visitation, may yet be another interesting perspective!)

And I note you're making a (somewhat) extraordinary claim. You suggest US presidents (at least since Truman) and their administration are evilly intentioned, scheming to inflict harm on Americans. Historical question, right? What is your historical evidence for such a terrible accusation?

Note my claims, althoug UFO related, were 'ordinary' in the sense I took my info from historical studies (like historian Simon Schama's The American Future), saying 1950's real-world America had vulnerabilities, a collective sense of Self, especially with religious (betcha about a 3rd of Americans believed God had created the universe in 7 days) and militaristic (=US superiority) overtones, which could cause dreadful harm to the country IF SUDDENLY EXPOSED TO REALISTIC ET-INFO. ET's and their advanced knowledge imo would have exploded the American psyche.

Thus, to my mind, whatever Truman's and Eisenhower's intent, they did the right thing(!) by shielding Americans from the full realization of visitors capable of traversing Space and/or the Multiverse, of (according to Whitley Strieber and others) modelling the future, including extinction level catastrophe. Stuff we at the time were not equipped to handle psychologically and as societies.

I think they did something right...


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #233 on: Mar 24th, 2016, 06:34am »

i just dug few new shots of tsiolkovsky by lunar orbiters from this video:



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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #234 on: Mar 24th, 2016, 06:37am »

Great stuff and find, Pos1tron. I'll be athinking deeply now....


cool


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #235 on: Mar 24th, 2016, 4:16pm »

on Mar 24th, 2016, 06:32am, pos1tron wrote:
my view may have sounded a bit more sincere than it probably actually was, at least in the very beginning of the coverup. i didn't mean to say their intentions were truly evil or even against american people. their act of deliberate denial was partially justified for the reasons you well noted. but, as eisenhower soon realized himself, it gave rise to "misplaced power", that is, the rise of military-industrial complex. so as they intensified the campaign of ridicule and denial, in parallel they started to build an interplanetary empire that had an agenda of it's own, with no regard for the civilian populus.

infamous MJ12 was actually established by eisenhower in 1954 by secret executive memorandum, NSC 540/1 as a permanent committee to oversee and conduct all cover activities concerned with the alien question. eisenhower entrusted nelson rockefeller with oversight and control over this committee. it wasn't much later when eisenhower realized what a huge mistake he made and gave his famous speech on "misplaced power". it was too late already since, at that time, they were already deeply in cooperation with negative alien race from orion, sharing mutliple underground bases on earth and the moon (base "luna"), while population was laughing at the very idea of a "flying saucer".



on Mar 24th, 2016, 06:34am, pos1tron wrote:
Image


I am viewing your posts carefully, and first spontaneous response to the tsiolkovsky image just above. Looks like, walks and quacks like a duck (so what off earth is it??). OK, Pos1tron, when I look at that 'lake', I have to admit it rather looks like a body of water smiley...

Let's leave it to any reader here to decide what that says about me, you and/or the lunar enigma we are attempting to solve. grin

Interesting insights in the darker developments of the secret management of alien information and technological derivatives (Philip Corso detailed such discrete introduction of 'Foreign Technology' into US manufacturing). Could you link a source for Rockefeller's supposed association with MJ-12? Mmmm, if even half of what you claim is true, this would inevitably result in an huge imbalance of power between 'normal' Democracy, our everyday world governed by elections and its civilian leadership, AND FOLKS (SELF?-)APPOINTED TO SAFEGUARD AND APPLY ALIEN KNOW-HOW / FLY AROUND IN INCREDIBLE GIZMOS, not to speak of taking responsibility for the ultimate fate of our planet and its lifeforms.

But are they therefore criminals, or evil, Pos1tron? (Do feel free to argue for this idea!)

For your consideration (some stuff from 'my' version of UFO Conspiracy Theory), could it be that once the info was deemed unsuited for public dissemination, risking societal upheaval, panic and the violent removal of the US leadership, the next step for ATS classified scientific/military panels/projects would be to develop our understanding of the Visitors completely outside normal society. In total secrecy. Free from Congressional/Parliamentary oversight.

Step inside their shoes for a moment. Say they got a couple of likely dates for the end of the world (Extinction Level Events). Say they started to plan for averting disasters, or the survival of our species if the event was too big to stop.

Any limits on their budget? Any ethical limits on an effort aiming for planetary survival? Are they all-powerful monsters (deciding who dies/lives, conceivably in the millions?). Or just working a dreadful problem in a equally dreadful way?


purr
« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2016, 4:20pm by purr » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #236 on: Mar 24th, 2016, 5:41pm »

on Mar 24th, 2016, 06:26am, ZETAR wrote:
PURR,

TO WIT:

"Thus, to my mind, whatever Truman's and Eisenhower's intent, they did the right thing(!) by shielding Americans from the full realization of visitors capable of traversing Space and/or the Multiverse, of (according to Whitley Strieber and others) modelling the future, including extinction level catastrophe. Stuff we at the time were not equipped to handle psychologically and as societies.

I think they did something right..."

I'M WITH YA ~ THAT BLINK IN THE REALIZATION THAT >>> WE ARE NOT ALONE <<< (OF COURSE THE AFOREMENTIONED IS PREDICATED ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT WE HAVE BEEN CONTACTED AND THE GUBMINT KNOWS) ~ CIRCA FIRST CONTACT ~ WOULD HAVE INDEED RESULTED IN THE DEER IN THE HEADLIGHT SYNDROME...

User Image

HOWEVER TO NUDGE THINGS ALONG ~ WAS THERE AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE 'PTB' AND THE VISITORS TO ACCLIMATE SOCIETY TO ( 'ET' ~ EXTRATERRESTRIAL/ 'ED' ~ EXTRA-DIMENSIONAL) AT SOME JUNCTURE IN THE FUTURE ~ ALWAYS PONDERED SUCH...OR SHALL IT ALWAYS REMAIN AN ELUSIVE TRUTH?...



FROM THE SCRIPT 'WAR OF THE WORLDS'...

COLUMBIA BROADCASTING SYSTEM
ORSON WELLES AND MERCURY THEATRE ON THE AIR
SUNDAY, OCTOBER 30, 1938
8:00 TO 9:00 P.M.

User Image

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/mars/wow.htm

"PHILLIPS: Ladies and gentlemen, you've just heard Mr. Wilmuth, owner of the farm where this thing has fallen. I wish I could convey the atmosphere . . . the background of this . . . fantastic scene. Hundreds of cars are parked in a field in back of us. Police are trying to rope off the roadway leading to the farm. But it's no use. They're breaking right through. Cars' headlights throw an enormous spot on the pit where the object's half buried. Some of the more daring souls are now venturing near the edge. Their silhouettes stand out against the metal sheen.

(FAINT HUMMING SOUND)
One man wants to touch the thing . . . he's having an argument with a policeman. The policeman wins. . . . Now, ladies and gentlemen, there's something I haven't mentioned in all this excitement, but now it's becoming more distinct. Perhaps you've caught it already on your radio. Listen:

(LONG PAUSE) . . .

Do you hear it? It's a curious humming sound that seems to come from inside the object. I'll move the microphone nearer. (PAUSE) Now we're not more then twenty-five feet away. Can you hear it now? Oh, Professor Pierson!"

SHALOM...Z






To elaborate slightly beyond "yes" smiley ZETAR, I'd answer: Hollywood, the movie industry, especially (though not limited to) sci-fi, which during over half a century gradually familiarized/desensitized the global viewing public to the ideas we need to process in order to deal with alien visitation.

Ideas in question are formatted in the subjunctive. Things purportedly untrue we momentarily consider as if true. If anything is still too scary, we may fall back on the reassuring thought it is mere fiction/entertainment.

Imo mankind, through this subliminal information process, is close to a point where we can accept alien reality without completely losing our collective sanity. ZETAR, I suspect we are ALMOST ready...


purr
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xx BUT IT AHS BEEN NOTED
« Reply #237 on: Mar 24th, 2016, 7:22pm »

PURR,

TO WIT:

"To elaborate slightly beyond "yes" grin ZETAR, I'd answer: Hollywood, the movie industry, especially (though not limited to) sci-fi, which during over half a century gradually familiarized/desensitized the global viewing public to the ideas we need to process in order to deal with alien visitation."

"Ideas in question are formatted in the subjunctive. Things purportedly untrue we momentarily consider as if true. If anything is still too scary, we may fall back on the reassuring thought it is mere fiction/entertainment."

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ALWAYS WISE TO HAVE CONTINGENT PLANS >>> still too scary, we may fall back <<< grin...GRADUATING FROM PREJUDICE OF ONES SKIN TONALITY TO ANOTHER'S POSSIBLE GALACTIC ORIGIN ~ DIMENSIONAL DERIVATION WILL BE A LEAP ~ BUT IT HAS BEEN NOTED...

"That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind." ~ NEIL ARMSTRONG

HAVING SAID THE AFOREMENTIONED ~ IF AND WHEN THOSE STEPS AND LEAPS ARE MADE ~ MY GUESS IT WILL BE WORTHY OF...

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"Imo mankind, through this subliminal information process, is close to a point where we can accept alien reality without completely losing our collective sanity. ZETAR, I suspect we are ALMOST ready..."

ONE FOOT IN FRONT OF THE OTHER ~ ONE PSY-OP AT A TIME grin

SHALOM...Z
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GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2
pos1tron
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #238 on: Mar 24th, 2016, 8:25pm »

the source for the eisenhower's mj12 executive memorandum is a book "space gate: the veil removed". it is available at phoenix journals website www.fourwinds10.net/journals/pdf/J003.pdf

it is a very complex pictures, with many players, some even competing within the same "government". i remember reading how cia would, say, hide saucer retreival information from the navy and airforce, and vice versa, each hiding their captured discs, developing their own secret space programs in secrecy. same goes for canada, russia, germany, japan etc.

i believe claims that us and russia made deal with this negative race from orion somewhere in 1949 and that it took them 20 years to realize visitors are not respecting the treaty. nazis have also allegedly made deal with this group after arians from star system aldebaraon ended their cooperation realizing that nazis started to weaponize the given disc technology.

i heard that when eisenhower had his meeting with the positive spacepeople and was offered free energy etc only if they abandoned the nuclear weapons, that he called khrushchev and that khrushchev said to refuse the offer. i think there was a great confusion from the beginning, but to answer your question, i think that these black programs, at least those under control of families like bush and rockefeller, were criminal and had negative, criminal agenda.

it is possible that later some more possitive programs emerged like alleged "solar warden". if so, who is behind it and is there a conflict between the various secret space programs? that has yet to be known.

for example, in the book above, it is revealed, as well in other sources, that "project magnet" - an ufo study program started by wilbert smith in canada, led to development of saucers by canadian government in the late 50s. also in the book "beyond the light barrier" there is a reference to "magnetic probes from shirley bay" closing in on elizabeth's alpha centauri lover's spacecraft.

there have been so many breakaway groups, it is impossible for us to know the full picture. there are many reports about nazi groups with spaceships in brazil and argentina as well as marconi's group of 98 scientist of immense wealth who build a city in a volcanic crater in southern jungles of venezuela in 1937 where they continued marconi's work on solar energy, cosmic energy and antigravity. they have allegedly established contact with mars and were helped in their development of spaceships.

then you have lobasng rampa description in "my trip to venus" of interaction of tibetan high lamas with spacepeople on regular basis. and how when spacepeople's disc landed, "from a nearby building a pear-shaped vehicle sped to the newly-arrived machine" - indicating lamas have their craft too.

then to quote from howard mengers "from outer space to you": "there are also space craft, though of inferior design, which are built by people of this planet. these people are in communication and in service with people from other planets. they are people who possess a high spiritual under­standing and have reached an awareness of natural law; therefore they have been entrusted with information enabling them to construct such craft."

also, from "observations" (1971) by richard kieninger, founder of the stelle group and community, it is stated regarding flying saucers: "some are interplanetary vehicles, others are of earthly origin. the ones which are from this planet are saucer-shaped of generally trapezoidal cross-section with three hemispherical engine pods on the underside. they were first developed by man on this planet about 20,000 years ago and have been used by members of the lesser brotherhoods continuously since that time."

it seems whenever a group of intelligent scientists / engineers with determination and funds come together and focus their efforts on higher understanding, they often end up as a breakaway society with interplanetary spaceships. and once you understood that vacuum is really a fluid and all you need to do is to "inflate" your own bubble, or, a standing-wave, you are given freedom of motion as never imagined before.

on Mar 24th, 2016, 4:16pm, purr wrote:
I am viewing your posts carefully, and first spontaneous response to the tsiolkovsky image just above. Looks like, walks and quacks like a duck (so what off earth is it??). OK, Pos1tron, when I look at that 'lake', I have to admit it rather looks like a body of water smiley...

Let's leave it to any reader here to decide what that says about me, you and/or the lunar enigma we are attempting to solve. grin

Interesting insights in the darker developments of the secret management of alien information and technological derivatives (Philip Corso detailed such discrete introduction of 'Foreign Technology' into US manufacturing). Could you link a source for Rockefeller's supposed association with MJ-12? Mmmm, if even half of what you claim is true, this would inevitably result in an huge imbalance of power between 'normal' Democracy, our everyday world governed by elections and its civilian leadership, AND FOLKS (SELF?-)APPOINTED TO SAFEGUARD AND APPLY ALIEN KNOW-HOW / FLY AROUND IN INCREDIBLE GIZMOS, not to speak of taking responsibility for the ultimate fate of our planet and its lifeforms.

But are they therefore criminals, or evil, Pos1tron? (Do feel free to argue for this idea!)

For your consideration (some stuff from 'my' version of UFO Conspiracy Theory), could it be that once the info was deemed unsuited for public dissemination, risking societal upheaval, panic and the violent removal of the US leadership, the next step for ATS classified scientific/military panels/projects would be to develop our understanding of the Visitors completely outside normal society. In total secrecy. Free from Congressional/Parliamentary oversight.

Step inside their shoes for a moment. Say they got a couple of likely dates for the end of the world (Extinction Level Events). Say they started to plan for averting disasters, or the survival of our species if the event was too big to stop.

Any limits on their budget? Any ethical limits on an effort aiming for planetary survival? Are they all-powerful monsters (deciding who dies/lives, conceivably in the millions?). Or just working a dreadful problem in a equally dreadful way?


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Axte incal axtuce mun - To know God, is to know all worlds
pos1tron
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #239 on: Mar 24th, 2016, 8:41pm »

in the case you haven't watched it, here is my favorite lecture on the reality of secret underground bases with advanced technology.

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Axte incal axtuce mun - To know God, is to know all worlds
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