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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #240 on: Mar 25th, 2016, 12:42pm »

Thanks Pos1tron. Lots to read, so there's no way to engage everything in one post tongue.

Since I'm already familiar with the UBase reports (some, not all), I'll first read the link you posted.

There's some questions I can put to you right now, from skimming/googling what you offered.

From googling terms in your topic thread:

1. Author to linked source is Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn. I take from the text he is of ET origin, a Reptilian Cdr to be exact! To be blunt, have you met the Commander personally / did you simply believe accounts of his disclosures?

2. Hatonn seems to work with Esu Jesus Immanuel Sananda, uh.. Jesus = ET?

3. Sources appear associated with Antisemitism and the Ashtar space cult. Thoughts?




From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
Subject: K2 & PHOENIX PROJECT
Date: 15 Mar 94 20:54:58 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:154/414 -
Radio Free, Milwaukee WI

Can anybody verify/debunk it's authenticity?
Thanks.
Try this... "Buyer Beware"

Subj: PHOENIX PROJECT REPORT

A few weeks ago, ParaNet received on-line copies of several documents which purported to come from a previously unknown organization called "The Phoenix Project".

The project is described in the documents as a "private, civilian, research organization" which was "formed in 1952 to investigate and correlate information" concerning UFOs and ETs.

According to the information contained in the documents, for a small price one can receive printed copies of the project's reports, complete with maps, magnetometer readings, and a host of other supporting charts and diagrams which serve to make the whole endeavor look scientific and legitimate.

The documents we received were formulated as investigative reports on two of the hottest and most controversial issues within the UFO research community: the underground alien bases which are said to exist at numerous locations around the United States, and the cluster of alleged UFO-related projects sometimes referred to collectively as "Operation Majestic Twelve".

Specifically, the material consisted of three separate documents:

(1) "The Ultimate Secret", originally dated 4 August 1989 and revised most recently 5 May 1992, purporting to lay bare the inner workings of the government's secret UFO projects, including the recovery of alien technology and bodies from crashed UFOs, the exploitation of this technology by a number of code-named government projects, and the involvement of NASA and the SDI program in preparing for conflict with alien invaders;

(2) "The Dulce Report", dated 27 May 1992, describing an on-site investigation of the Dulce and Archuleta Mesa area in New Mexico, which purportedly proved beyond any doubt that there is nothing there of any interest to UFO researchers despite persistent reports to the contrary; and

(3) "The K-2 Report", originally dated 28 July 1989 and revised 27 June 1992, which purports to document the discovery of a genuine "secret alien base" in the Pilot Peak area of Plumas County, California.

ParaNet quickly reviewed this material and posted it in its entirety for our subscribers, pursuant to the permissions attached to the material by the publisher.

We also posted a preliminary evaluation which warned that the material might contain inaccuracies or deliberate disinformation.

This evaluation was based on a number of factors:

(1) much of the information in "The Ultimate Secret" about Operation Majestic Twelve and associated projects is clearly related to, and probably derived from, earlier material which has been dismissed as worthless by almost all reputable UFO researchers;

(2) much of the information in "The Dulce Report" about Dulce and the Archuleta Mesa contradicts information already provided to ParaNet by other capable investigators;

(3) some of the information in "The K-2 Report" is intrinsically implausible (although, admittedly, not impossible), such as the claim that a seasoned military intelligence operative "forgot" his camera when rushing to document a UFO landing site, or that by the next day that same landing site had been re-sodded by the aliens to obliterate all the evidence.

ParaNet received the three documents as uploads from a Mr. Jack L. Mathias of Carson City, Nevada, who represented himself as the sole public spokesman for the Project. But the reports themselves name neither the authors of the documents nor the principals of the Phoenix Project. Instead, they cryptically state that they are the work of "former military personnel who have all been associated with intelligence activities, and have knowledge of covert government operations concerning UFO's".

Given the sorry history of anonymous documents and "former" government agents in the UFO community, ParaNet felt it necessary to start its own investigation in an effort to determine just who was behind the Phoenix Project and what their motives might be.

First we sent a letter to the post office box listed in the documents, asking for further information about the group; but the letter was not answered. We corresponded by electronic mail with Mr. Mathias, who represents himself as an agent for the group, but he refused to provide any of the information we requested.

So much for the direct approach.

Each document formally states that the Phoenix Project logo is a registered trademark (presumably in the state of Nevada, since that is where their mailing address is located), so we tried a query to the Nevada trademark office in Carson City.

That office informed us that the state of Nevada has no record of any current trademarks under the "Phoenix Project" name. They did say that articles of incorporation were filed under the name of the Phoenix Project on 25 August 1988 by a Mr. Thomas Naylor of Las Vegas, Nevada. However, the corporation failed to file the names and addresses of its officers by 1 July 1989 as required by Nevada law, as a result of which the incorporation was revoked by the Nevada Secretary of State.

And so we reached another apparent dead end, except for one bit of trivia uncovered by a ParaNet investigator in Las Vegas:

An attorney named Thomas C. Naylor had recently moved into an office building at 2810 West Charleston in Las Vegas.

Next we contacted the U.S. Postal Service in Carson City, Nevada to determine the box holder for the Phoenix Project's publisher, Advent Publishing Company.

We were told that the box was registered to a Richard T. Miller, whose address was given as a mobile-home park in Carson City.

Following this, we contacted the Clerk and Recorder's office in Carson City, and determined that a Richard Miller is listed with them as the legal owner of Advent Publishing. However, the telephone number they gave us for Mr. Miller has been disconnected, and directory assistance was unable to provide a new one.

Another brick wall.

To this point, all attempts to verify the Phoenix Project's legitimacy using conventional methods had proved futile, so we decided to try a different approach.

The Phoenix Project explicitly and emphatically disclaims affiliation with any other groups using the name "Phoenix". And just to make sure everyone gets the message, each document states at the beginning that "[i]n particular, there is no affiliation with a publisher known as America West, any of its publications, or the individuals known as George and Desiree Green".

Unfortunately, ParaNet has uncovered evidence that these disclaimers may be intended to conceal rather than to illuminate. America West, it turns out, is the publisher of a magazine called the Phoenix Liberator, which carries large quantities of channelled material alleged to originate with an entity from the Pleiades known as "Hatonn".

The Phoenix Liberator has come under fire recently from some in the UFO community as anti-Semitic and neo-fascist. (See, for example, "Hatonn's World: A Neo-Nazi ET?" by Don Ecker in the July/August 1992 issue of UFO Magazine.)

But "Hatonn" and his defenders vehemently deny the charge, and the whole affair has been widely and rather nastily trumpeted both on the net and in print.

It seems that until recently America West Publishers and the Phoenix Liberator were operated out of Tehachapi, California. But a few days ago one of ParaNet's subscribers uploaded a response from "Hatonn" to Don Ecker, which he said he had pulled down from the Phoenix Liberator BBS; and with it he posted a new address for the Liberator. That address was all too familiar: 2810 West Charleston Boulevard, Las Vegas, Nevada--the same building, it seems, where an attorney named Thomas Naylor also has his new office.

And then another strange coincidence: A posting coming across the Internet stated that before "Hatonn" channelled through his current host, he used to convey his messages through a Mr. Richard Miller, who started an organization which was known as the Solar Cross and which was apparently a forerunner of the Phoenix Liberator. Is this the same Richard Miller who owns the Phoenix Project's publisher, Advent Publishing Company?

We do not yet know if the Thomas Naylor who tried to incorporate the Phoenix Project is the same Thomas Naylor who apparently shares 2810 West Charleston with the new offices of the Phoenix Liberator.

We do not yet know if the Richard Miller who owns Advent Publishing is the same Richard Miller who reportedly once channelled "Hatonn".

In short, we do not yet know if the Phoenix Project is truly an independent organization, or merely another incarnation of America West Publishers and the Phoenix Liberator. But the coincidences are certainly striking and suggestive. And in light of this we again urge extreme caution in dealing with the Phoenix Project material, until such time as a definitive assessment of the Project's motives and reliability can be made.


Thanks for addressing questions/excerpt!


purr
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #241 on: Mar 25th, 2016, 2:06pm »

on Mar 24th, 2016, 8:25pm, pos1tron wrote:
the source for the eisenhower's mj12 executive memorandum is a book "space gate: the veil removed". it is available at phoenix journals website www.fourwinds10.net/journals/pdf/J003.pdf

it is a very complex pictures, with many players, some even competing within the same "government". i remember reading how cia would, say, hide saucer retreival information from the navy and airforce, and vice versa, each hiding their captured discs, developing their own secret space programs in secrecy. same goes for canada, russia, germany, japan etc.

i believe claims that us and russia made deal with this negative race from orion somewhere in 1949 and that it took them 20 years to realize visitors are not respecting the treaty. nazis have also allegedly made deal with this group after arians from star system aldebaraon ended their cooperation realizing that nazis started to weaponize the given disc technology.

i heard that when eisenhower had his meeting with the positive spacepeople and was offered free energy etc only if they abandoned the nuclear weapons, that he called khrushchev and that khrushchev said to refuse the offer. i think there was a great confusion from the beginning, but to answer your question, i think that these black programs, at least those under control of families like bush and rockefeller, were criminal and had negative, criminal agenda.

it is possible that later some more possitive programs emerged like alleged "solar warden". if so, who is behind it and is there a conflict between the various secret space programs? that has yet to be known.

for example, in the book above, it is revealed, as well in other sources, that "project magnet" - an ufo study program started by wilbert smith in canada, led to development of saucers by canadian government in the late 50s. also in the book "beyond the light barrier" there is a reference to "magnetic probes from shirley bay" closing in on elizabeth's alpha centauri lover's spacecraft.

there have been so many breakaway groups, it is impossible for us to know the full picture. there are many reports about nazi groups with spaceships in brazil and argentina as well as marconi's group of 98 scientist of immense wealth who build a city in a volcanic crater in southern jungles of venezuela in 1937 where they continued marconi's work on solar energy, cosmic energy and antigravity. they have allegedly established contact with mars and were helped in their development of spaceships.

then you have lobasng rampa description in "my trip to venus" of interaction of tibetan high lamas with spacepeople on regular basis. and how when spacepeople's disc landed, "from a nearby building a pear-shaped vehicle sped to the newly-arrived machine" - indicating lamas have their craft too.

then to quote from howard mengers "from outer space to you": "there are also space craft, though of inferior design, which are built by people of this planet. these people are in communication and in service with people from other planets. they are people who possess a high spiritual under­standing and have reached an awareness of natural law; therefore they have been entrusted with information enabling them to construct such craft."

also, from "observations" (1971) by richard kieninger, founder of the stelle group and community, it is stated regarding flying saucers: "some are interplanetary vehicles, others are of earthly origin. the ones which are from this planet are saucer-shaped of generally trapezoidal cross-section with three hemispherical engine pods on the underside. they were first developed by man on this planet about 20,000 years ago and have been used by members of the lesser brotherhoods continuously since that time."

it seems whenever a group of intelligent scientists / engineers with determination and funds come together and focus their efforts on higher understanding, they often end up as a breakaway society with interplanetary spaceships. and once you understood that vacuum is really a fluid and all you need to do is to "inflate" your own bubble, or, a standing-wave, you are given freedom of motion as never imagined before.



Hey Pos1tron, I'm more than sympathetic to your notion of a secret history, for the US and governments globally, including secret space programs with ET related ambitions. Frankly, I suspect it's real. smiley

However, to your source, I can see big problems. That author Hatonn is an extraterrestrial of Rep descent, fine in principle, no more weird than the little bigheaded bugeyed greys or any other weird looking offworlder reported. THE PROBLEM is that Hatonn didn't quite make it down, ah... radio (or channeling? not clear) transmissions are passed on to us by human beings. We must trust them feller earthers (or.. NOT!).

Me, subjectively, I'd go for Hatonn's revelatory text being a work of fiction, with lots of historical/conspiracist tidbits interwoven. I struggle with the idea of the 9 1/2 foot tall Galactic Federation Commander spending his time on endless/philosophical radio transmissions pertaining to the fate of worlds to some lady or magazine publisher. (Park that mother of ships on the White House roof and just settle the matter, I says.) rolleyes

Too much God and Jesus on board as well. (Have nothing against them, on the contrary.) My sense is this is presented as cultist/sectarian material. As if God's TRUTH, and how can one rationally debate THAT? embarassed

So, I hope you can understand I'm not happy,


purr
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #242 on: Mar 25th, 2016, 6:49pm »

where did you get that hatton is a "reptilian", he is human being living on venus.

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i haven't personaly met him, but i believe the transmissions from him are genuine. what antisemitism? i didn't read anything even close along those lines.

"Park that mother of ships on the White House roof and just settle the matter, I says" - that is exactly the way of thinking you need to overcome. firstly, nobody will do that on a planet where there are wars and low awareness. second, there is a cosmic law that forbids it.

i don't think it is "occultist / sectarian" material, it promotes jesus christ and spiritual way of life. only thing i find suspicious is that hatton promotes billy meier and says that those who prosecute him are the dark side. i believe meier probably was under dual infulenece and here is one example of what his "plajerans" told him: plajerans to meier regarding other planets and moons in SOL system: "There is nothing living on these planets of either material or spiritual forms". now since i know all planets and moons are inhabited, if not in 3d, then in higher octaves, this is a blatant, satanic lie. and that is only one example.

all in all, i highly believe hatton (epcecially considering he reveals, like others, moon's air water and life, as well as us/russian/grey moon base "luna") and i believe his information is correct and not ill intended, except the billy meier part, whom i consider a disinformator.

on Mar 25th, 2016, 2:06pm, purr wrote:
Hey Pos1tron, I'm more than sympathetic to your notion of a secret history, for the US and governments globally, including secret space programs with ET related ambitions. Frankly, I suspect it's real. smiley

However, to your source, I can see big problems. That author Hatonn is an extraterrestrial of Rep descent, fine in principle, no more weird than the little bigheaded bugeyed greys or any other weird looking offworlder reported. THE PROBLEM is that Hatonn didn't quite make it down, ah... radio (or channeling? not clear) transmissions are passed on to us by human beings. We must trust them feller earthers (or.. NOT!).

Me, subjectively, I'd go for Hatonn's revelatory text being a work of fiction, with lots of historical/conspiracist tidbits interwoven. I struggle with the idea of the 9 1/2 foot tall Galactic Federation Commander spending his time on endless/philosophical radio transmissions pertaining to the fate of worlds to some lady or magazine publisher. (Park that mother of ships on the White House roof and just settle the matter, I says.) rolleyes

Too much God and Jesus on board as well. (Have nothing against them, on the contrary.) My sense is this is presented as cultist/sectarian material. As if God's TRUTH, and how can one rationally debate THAT? embarassed

So, I hope you can understand I'm not happy,


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #243 on: Mar 25th, 2016, 7:05pm »

billy meier's "space woman with a ray gun" shocked

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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #244 on: Mar 25th, 2016, 11:48pm »

purr, also regarding your agreement with denial of et presence and life in space, although you are partially right people were not ready in the 1940s and 50s, beware, the people who started the coverup and ridicule campaign, are the same people who orcestrate world wars, trade drugs, kidnap, rape and murder your children..should i continue. so, although, people maybe were not ready, the powers behind the secrecy were and are pure evil.
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #245 on: Mar 26th, 2016, 12:27am »

Pos, thanks for your informative stance in previous posts. My bad when I said Hatonn was reptilian (I took that in haste from a critical google-hit, clickable in my Reply # 240), it is indeed clear from your link the Commander is Pleiadan / operating in Pleiades which region allegedly is origin to an ET faction generally depicted as human-like. (Quoting from your link: "I am Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn,....Pleiades Sector Flight Command.....")

I'll continue to work my way through your postings, allowing opposing truths to cancel each other out. I'm not sure you'll sway me entirely to your point of view though wink. But in the process you will have added your insights here for anyone interested to read and consider (and that's always a good thing imo).


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #246 on: Mar 26th, 2016, 12:36am »

on Mar 25th, 2016, 7:05pm, pos1tron wrote:
billy meier's "space woman with a ray gun" shocked

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That's a mighty wicked looking ray gun! grin


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #247 on: Mar 26th, 2016, 12:55am »

healthy skepticism is always welcome, as long as it doesn't become deliberate ignorance. not trying to sway you anywhere, unless you feel like dancing wink. i am just presenting my own research and conclusions. as you put it, everyone is free to read and consider and to come to their own conclusions. cool

on Mar 26th, 2016, 12:27am, purr wrote:
Pos, thanks for your informative stance in previous posts. My bad when I said Hatonn was reptilian (I took that in haste from a critical google-hit, clickable in my Reply # 240), it is indeed clear from your link the Commander is Pleiadan / operating in Pleiades which region allegedly is origin to an ET faction generally depicted as human-like. (Quoting from your link: "I am Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn,....Pleiades Sector Flight Command.....")

I'll continue to work my way through your postings, allowing opposing truths to cancel each other out. I'm not sure you'll sway me entirely to your point of view though wink. But in the process you will have added your insights here for anyone interested to read and consider (and that's always a good thing imo).


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #248 on: Mar 26th, 2016, 01:06am »

ps. yes, hatton is from pleiades as you correctly quoted, but he is, as well as the reset of the boys including commander esus sananda, stationed on our lovely morning "star".
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #249 on: Mar 26th, 2016, 01:36am »

i love discussing about secret saucer development, but still, i'd like to turn the thread to the original subject. i feel my previous link to mare marginis by chang'e 5 didn't get deserved attention. here is just a crop from a small area top-right. it seems this area has also been turned into lakes. this is my latest discovery. i wonder when were these made and is this water taken from earth. did they even ask if they can take it? smiley

http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/165019

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doesn't look too much different than downtown manhattan does it. just take note of size scale here. the crop above covers an area of ~80km horizontaly.

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[mod edit: image size redux - plz mind sizes before uploading to post!]
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #250 on: Mar 28th, 2016, 12:58am »

i just discovered there was an article in borderland sciences journal in issue vol 25 from SEPT-OCT 1969 titled "LAKE TSIOLKOVSKY
On the Far Side of the Moon". will try to get the article.

https://borderlandsciences.org/journal/vol/25/n05/index.html
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #251 on: Mar 28th, 2016, 1:18pm »

Seems like we have a case of folie a deux happening.
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #252 on: Mar 28th, 2016, 10:14pm »

just got the article from borderland sciences journal, issue vol 25 from SEPT-OCT 1969

"LAKE TSIOLKOVSKY On the Far Side of the Moon"

http://s12.postimg.org/ufjummde3/JBR_v25_n05_p4.png
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #253 on: Mar 29th, 2016, 12:42am »

this photo needed to be flipped horizontally, now it is in the original perspective

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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #254 on: Mar 29th, 2016, 05:37am »

on Mar 24th, 2016, 8:25pm, pos1tron wrote:
it seems whenever a group of intelligent scientists / engineers with determination and funds come together and focus their efforts on higher understanding, they often end up as a breakaway society with interplanetary spaceships. and once you understood that vacuum is really a fluid and all you need to do is to "inflate" your own bubble, or, a standing-wave, you are given freedom of motion as never imagined before.



Pos1tron, if you hadn't noticed already, the last Tsiolkovsky crater image makes for this page becoming unreadable (speaking as a kind of mine dove for smaller screen users here, I'm on an older generation compact puter right now!) Could you reselect/upload for a somewhat downsided version?

Excerpt quote above struck me as reminiscent of fabled (and reviled) MJ-12 itself. That's what they got to play with, ain't it?! Feels like a cheap shot you seem to judge so harshly (based on various disclosure sources) on the Panel's work and heritage! Again, analyzing craft remains, dead crew and (supposedly) even alien survivors(!), their perspective can be called a new paradigm for reality. Lost were the former concepts of the Great Faiths and God, of Science and Truth, of Right versus Wrong: is it strange they acted as if given freedom as never imagined before?

So I resubmit my question from Reply # 235 here:

Step inside their shoes for a moment. Say they got a couple of likely dates for the end of the world (Extinction Level Events). Say they started to plan for averting disasters, or the survival of our species if the event was too big to stop.

Any limits on their budget? Any ethical limits on an effort aiming for planetary survival? Are they all-powerful monsters (deciding who dies/lives, conceivably in the millions?). Or just working a dreadful problem in a equally dreadful way?


Arguably, HIDING the true lunar dimensions may have been for all our benefit, preventing societal panic/breakdown.

Making you and fellow 'Hatonnians' (and I'm writing this with a smile) the bad guy for continually spreading this information!

(I don't want your head to explode, just explain, best you are able, how hiding deeply upsetting information, as done by the US, is ethically wrong/monstrous crime)

cheesy


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