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INT21
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #750 on: Jul 12th, 2016, 11:48am »

Ed,

...To cover both
the possibility of an errant claim and a genuine
discovery, reviews should require that submitters meet
minimal thresholds of
proof before engaging in
further correspondence; such as achieving sustained de
flection of a level-platform pendulum in the case
of mechanical thrusters. ..

Seems far enough.


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #751 on: Jul 12th, 2016, 11:55am »

jjflash,

Indeed that is the basic problem.

There seems to be no black or white in the ufo world; just the eternal grey.

Hypnotism verges on the paranormal anyway. So there is very little solid proof to be had.

The so called hypnotic regression has been the bane of serious research as it throws unverifiable aspects into the mix.

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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #752 on: Jul 12th, 2016, 12:07pm »

on Jul 12th, 2016, 11:55am, INT21 wrote:
jjflash,

Indeed that is the basic problem.


Yeah, it truly is. Authenticated documents and peer reviewed journals are rejected in favor of obscure website posts and YouTube clips uploaded by anonymous sources. The consequences are apparent, and it's observable throughout the genre.
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #753 on: Jul 12th, 2016, 12:34pm »

INT, you didn't answer the question. Do you still claim it will not pull you forward? grin
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #754 on: Jul 14th, 2016, 12:43pm »

on Jul 12th, 2016, 12:34pm, pos1tr0n wrote:
INT, you didn't answer the question. Do you still claim it will not pull you forward? grin


I think getting (some) positive responders feeling the pull forward isn't the problem, Pos. The question is how this translates into a viable propulsion system, sumtin that really FLIES, as well as an habitable/inhabited, water covered, lunar farside.

Uh.. anything is possible smiley. But you have to work hard to persuade readers this is so. Your work is not yet done.


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #755 on: Jul 14th, 2016, 3:15pm »

on Jul 12th, 2016, 09:19am, pos1tr0n wrote:
Just found and uploaded this to YT



grin




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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #756 on: Jul 14th, 2016, 3:36pm »

More than ever i have no intention to persuade anyone of anything. I have shared information for those with eyes to see.

I have already stated that inertial propulsion simply works by keeping the rotating mass always on one side. Many devices have been built and flown, it's no secret, masses just don't care. Gyradoscope, Mac Quan 1, LGE drone.. without mentioning man made ufos.

For the water covered and densly populated Moon, that's just another truth that is irrelevant to people on Earth now. Maybe in 10-20 years.

on Jul 14th, 2016, 12:43pm, purr wrote:
I think getting (some) positive responders feeling the pull forward isn't the problem, Pos. The question is how this translates into a viable propulsion system, sumtin that really FLIES, as well as an habitable/inhabited, water covered, lunar farside.

Uh.. anything is possible smiley. But you have to work hard to persuade readers this is so. Your work is not yet done.


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #757 on: Jul 17th, 2016, 11:46am »

Many things are not hidden, you just don't look for them. This is a supposed list of US Navy STARFLEET officers from 1989/1990 who served on starships U.S.S. EXCALIBUR and U.S.S. CONCORD, disclosed in the book The Secrets of the Mojave by Branton.

In 1990, researcher Val Valerian released a peculiar document which was sent to him by another researcher. The document is actually a list of several military personnel. However, the strange thing about this document was the title-heading.
Some researchers believe that within the deepest levels of the government is an on-going 'covert space program' utilizing some very remarkable aerospace and propulsion technologies. However, the very nature of this program, the clandestine (and possibly illegal) means by which it is funded, as well as the possible means by which they came across this 'technology', has apparently led the 'Secret' Government into keeping these activities one of the world's top secrets, and apparently they have enforced this cover-up, as John Lear says, with 'deadly force'. Perhaps one of the most important reasons for the secrecy, according to some, is that SOME groups within the secret government have allegedly -- in the face of 'superior alien technology' -- 'surrendered' to a malevolent alien race and have become their 'agents' on earth.

Is it also possible -- as many researchers and prominent military, government and industrial personnel are actually confirming -- that the 'secret government' is utilizing this advanced super-technology (which they have hidden from the public) to carry out a clandestine space program involving not only manned FLIGHTS to the moon, but also manned BASES on the moon and, some claim, even Mars as well? There appears to be enough mounting evidence to cause the public to at least consider the possibility of these claims. Actually, if one carefully examines all of the various claims and how they merge together in synchronicity, and if one studies the various theories and arguments concerning Einstein's 'unified field' theory and the apparent underlying connection between electromagnetism, gravity waves, and other 'unified field' forces, such a scenario involving a fleet of top secret government antigravity craft would not be outside the realm of possibility.

The document referred to above contains in the title heading both the terms 'Starfleet International' and 'United Federated Planets'. Why would such a statement appear on a MILITARY document? Could it be that, although perhaps somewhat presumptuously, a secret group of 'astronauts' constantly travel back and forth from ultra-secret bases on or below the earth, the moon, and mars; and have in anticipation of an ever-growing interplanetary network named this organization 'Starfleet International' and/or the 'United Federated Planets'?

Val Valerian gives the following 'introduction' and story behind the document:

"...Researcher George Andrews forwarded this puzzle to us. From the introduction, it might seem that this thing was complete bunk. There it might have stayed, except that WE TRACED 11 PEOPLE ON THE LIST TO ACTUALLY BEING IN THE MILITARY. What does it mean?"

The following introduction is given by George Andrews:
"A friend who wishes to remain anonymous, who lives in a large city, recently woke about 3 A.M. with a strong but apparently irrational impulse to get dressed and to go to an all- night photostat place. As she was entering, she noticed a man dressed in a Navy officers uniform who was just leaving, who threw some papers into the trash barrel near the door. She made her copies and was about to leave and had another impulse to retrieve what the Navy officer had thrown away. She came up with these pages. Under normal circumstances, the news that the United States Navy has a flying disk named the U.S.S. Excalibur (and U.S.S. Concord? - Branton), operated by a crew of four, would be cause for celebration... however (unless) this achievement is the result of the collaboration of the 'Greys'..."
Andrews goes on to suggest that they might, because of their collaboration with the 'Greys', be forced to take part in offensive attacks against the 'Blonds', who have allegedly had ancient conflicts with the Greys.

The introduction goes on to state that those names which appear with an (x), are people who have actually been traced to the military. Take special note of names like Ferguson, Caskey, Taylor, Burrall, Stevens, and Miller -- which are repeated more than once throughout the list. Possible signs of Nepotism?

George Andrews suspects that 'Starfleet International' consists of human-military personnel only, while the 'United Federated Planets' may somehow tie-in with the non-human entities' such as the 'Serpent Race' or the 'Greys'. However, Andrews' theory that THIS particular Governmental establishment has collaborated with the Grays is yet to be confirmed.

There is a possibility that the UFP involves interaction with the 'Federated' human cultures in this small corner of the galaxy. Let us hope that this is the case, IF the following information is true. There is evidence in fact that certain 'Constituted Government' officials (who are loyal to the American- Constitutional 'Republic') -- as confirmed by Guy Kirkwood and others -- have secret 'alliances' with the 'Nordics'; wheres the 'Secret Government' collaborators (who are loyal to the Bavarian- Roman 'Empire') tend to collaborate with the saurian Grays, etc. Below is a reproduction of the document:


UNITED FEDERATED PLANETS
STARFLEET INTERNATIONAL
U.S.S. CONCORD NCC-1989
CREW ROSTER

CREW MEMBER SF EXPIRATION SERV. NUMBER

COL. MIKE FERGUSON (SFC ST./MC) JUNE 1990*@ SCMC-8901-0002
LT. LAURA FERGUSON (SFC) JUNE 1990@ SCM-8901-0007
LCDR. HARLAN STEVENS (SFC) SEP. 1989@ SCSS-8906.23
ENS. REBECCA BURAND (SFC) SEP. 1989@ SCS-8902-0004
MAJ. MIKE WEST (SFC STAFF/MC) UFP ONLY SCMC-8901-0004
LT. KATRINA CASKEY (SFC) NOV. 1989@ SCE-8906-0005
2LT. BOB BURRALL (SFMC) NOV. 1989@ SCMC-8906-0003
CMDR. BOB TOMPKINS (SFC) DEC. 1989@ SCE-8906-0002
SGM. RAY CHAMBERS (SFMC) DEC. 1989@ SCMC-8903-0008 (x)
ENS. RON CASKEY (SFC) JAN. 1990@ SCSY-0906-0005
LT. DEBRA MCCLARY (SFC) JAN. 1990@ SCSS-8906-0004 (x)
MSG. IVAN GOODMAN (SFMC) JAN. 1990@ SCMC-8904-0001
CS. CRYSTAL FERGUSON (SFC) JAN. 1990@ SCM-8906-0011 (x)
MDSM. PHILIPPE BEAUDETTE (SFC) JAN. 1990@ SCM-8906-0009
A-ENS. EVERETT NEW (SFC) FEB. 1990@ SCE-8906-0007
MSG. JOHN HIGGINS (SFMC) FEB. 1990@ SCMC-8906-0010 (x)
WO3. DOUG TAYLOR (SFMC) MAR. 1990@ SCMC-8906-0001 (x)
CS. ROSE TAYLOR (SFC) MAR. 1990@ SCS-8906-0012
SP1. AMANDA TAYLOR (SFC) MAR. 1990@ SCMC-8906-0001 (x)
A-ENS. KELLY MADDOX (SFC) MAR. 1990@ SCSS-8906-0008
RADM. ANNE MILLER (SFC STAFF) MAY 1990*@ SMC-8901-0006 (x)
LTJG. SHAREN BURRALL (SFC) MAY 1990@ SCSS-8906-0014
WO4. CHUCK GRAHAM (SFMC) MAY 1990@ SCMC-8906-0001 (x)
PO1. DEAN KING (SFC) MAY 1990@ SCO-0906-0015 (x)
PO. CHUCK STEVENS (SFC) MAY 1990@ SCE-0906-0015
SP1 WILLIE STEVENS (SFC) MAY 1990@ SCE-8906-0017
LTJG. JASON MARRS (SFC) JUN 1990@ SCO-8906-0018
LTJG. CHARLES FINCH III (SFC) UFP ONLY
LTJG. JAMES CABANISS (SFC) UFP ONLY SCS-8908-0004
WO. TERRY MILLER (SFC) UFP ONLY SCS-8908-0004 (x)
WO. DEANNA WINSLETT (SFC) UFP ONLY SCM-8907-0005
SFC. RICHARD PARKER (SFMC) UFP ONLY SCMC-8907-0004 (x)
WO. STEVE WILKES (SFC) UFP ONLY
LT. RUSSELL NATES (SFC) UFP ONLY SCSS-8908-0006
WO. SHELLEY SAVAGE UFP ONLY SCM-8907-0006
CPL. CHUCK FAIR UFP ONLY SCMC-8908-0005
CPL. JON PLANT UFP ONLY SCMC-8908-0007
WO. KARREN SULLIVAN OCT 1990@ SCC-14522-12
WO. KELLY SPANGLER OCT 1990 SCC-14508-12

PAGE TWO U.S.S. CONCORD NCC-1989 CREW ROSTER
@
LTJG. JANET KELLEY SCC-
CPL. MARCUS MALONE UFP ONLY SCMC-
WO. ALEN SHERWOOD UFP ONLY SCO-8908.02
CS. KAHUNA KITE UFP ONLY SCE-8908-0003
SPEC. VINCENT LIN UFP ONLY SCE-8906.23
WO. GLEN LOWE UFP ONLY SCM-8907-0002
WO3. MIKE WIER UFP ONLY SCMC-

* DENOTES VICE FLEET ADMIRAL FOR UFP
@ DENOTES DUAL MEMBERSHIP IN UFP AND STARFLEET

* DENOTES VICE FLEET ADMIRAL FOR UFP
@ DENOTES DUAL MEMBERSHIP IN UFP AND STARFLEET

(Note: In the original document, 4 of the above names were indicated as being members of the crew of the 'U.S.S. EXCALIBUR')
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #758 on: Jul 17th, 2016, 12:15pm »

Interestingly, COL. MIKE FERGUSON, first on the list above or person of same rank and name is listed on tbs1-68usmc.com. It is stated:

Lieutenant Colonel Michael J. Ferguson of Lakewood, California and later Dallas, Texas was with the Marine Corps from June 7, 1967 until June 30, 1989.

He died in 2002. Was he a STARFLEET officer? Unknown.

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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #759 on: Jul 17th, 2016, 12:38pm »

President Reagan's Diary, the entry for Tuesday, June 11, 1985 (page 334) reads:

Lunch with 5 top space scientist. It was fascinating. Space truly is the last frontier and some of the developments there in astronomy etc. are like science fiction, except they are real. I learned that our shuttle capacity is such that we could orbit 300 people.
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #760 on: Jul 17th, 2016, 12:53pm »

ARV fluxliner, a SUPERLUMINAL spaceship, captured by airforce pilot in Provo, Utah, 1966.

WHO MAKES THESE, LOCKHEED OR NORTHROP?

AND IF THEY WERE MAKING SUPERLUMINAL CRAFT IN 1966, WHERE ARE THEY TODAY?

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ARV FLUXLINER DOCUMENTARY

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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #761 on: Jul 17th, 2016, 1:31pm »

Fascinating account of Helga Morrow, also from Secrets of the Mojave..

The following article, 'THE INCREDIBLE REVELATIONS OF DR. KUEPPERS', by Helga Morrow, also appeared in UFO REVIEW - issue #37, with the following heading: "He Escaped From Nazi Germany At The Height Of World War II And Came To America To Work For The U.S. Military On Top Secret Projects Involving Invisibility, Time [Manipulation], Anti-Gravity Research And Teleportation:

"Editors Note: The following is a highly-abbreviated account of Helga Morrow's recollections of her late father, Dr. Fred A. Kueppers, a German-born engineer who defected to the U.S. during World War II...

"[Helga's Story] 'I have learned from various sources that my father was one of the scientists who worked on the Philadelphia Experiment; had invented the timing device for the A-bomb; had been chosen by the bomb scientists to represent them to Harry Truman, asking him NOT to drop the bomb; had invented the mathematical formula that brought the astronauts back; had designed the miniaturized electrical system of Sputnik, the first space launching; had worked on Project Blue Book/Black Book, UFOs; had initiated the use of aluminum wiring to replace the heavier wiring in World War II planes; had worked with mind warfare, using psychics to communicate with astronauts in case communication systems failed; and had trained extraterrestrials to fit into human society.

"'My head spun; in it wheels were turning, and a thousand things began to make sense. Suddenly the things my father had told me in my childhood and youth snapped into place. It was as if nineteen years after I attended my father's funeral, I began to know him for the first time as only a few others knew him -- a man who, for obvious reasons, could never be mentioned in public records, but who had clearly deserved such recognition for the valuable service he had given the nation. My mind began to go back to my earliest remembrances...

"'When I was in the second or third grade, I watched him hang up an award from RCA in his room. I asked, 'Why did you get this award?' He told me it was too lengthy to go into. I said, 'Try me!' and he did. He said it was an award for an experiment in time, and then proceeded to put two ashtrays on his bed, and through simple gestures and explanations, show how two objects could transpose in time and return the same way. Then he took me into the cellar, where he put some steel shavings in a cigar box with a large U-shaped magnet taped underneath. He gently tapped the steel shavings, and to my amazement, two distinct series of concentric circles gradually appeared! He then simplified this by saying that if one could transpose these circles, one could transpose time [or 'bend' time such as to speed it up or slow it down, or even stop it altogether? - Branton]. He said that alien spacecraft were partly moved by 'reverse magnetism.' He showed me how to get this effect by holding two opposite magnets.

"'I never forgot this lesson. And this was BEFORE anyone really talked about flying saucers. I was Daddy's confidant. I never discussed this information with anyone; he had sworn me to secrecy.

"'My father was not home much -- only several times a year. He was completely focused on his work, so normal family life was difficult for him...

"'Daddy was a popular innovator in many fields of science and technology. All his patents became the property of either the company that employed him or the U.S. Government [Such patents, which have been established by various scientists working in anti-gravity research, allegedly exist in the patent offices for all to see, IF they only knew how and where to find them - Branton].

"'The third winter of 1961 before he died (February 12, 1962, Lincoln's birthday), my father confided many things to me. He told me that what he was about to tell me was bizarre, unbelievable and might sound absolutely crazy. I was 27 at the time, and thought he had gone off the deep-end (my mother had always thought so). Daddy assured me that by the time I reached 55 or so, all these bizarre statements that he was about to make, as well as everything he had ever explained to me when I was a child, would come back to me and make sense.

"'He told me that he had three months to live. 'They' had given him three months to conclude his personal affairs, he said. I asked, 'Who are they?' He said I wouldn't understand. So I realized that I was taking my last walk with him through Guilford. He turned around to see if he was being followed, as always, aware of intrusion. He confided that he had not only been on the moon but INSIDE it, and that he had both spoken to and trained extraterrestrials who looked like us to blend into human society. He had been in spaceships and had traveled in space.

"'He told me of the riots where we would kill or be killed in a period of racial intolerance that would occur around 1966 -- which is now history. He told me that red-baiting propaganda was a lie to keep humanity occupied with worry over 'fighting communism.' And that in reality the two nations were great friends; Russian scientists got along well with their American counterparts and worked amiably together. The Russian 'threat' was nothing but B.S. and a distraction for the public.

"'In the meantime, there were alien bases all over the world and on the moon. He said that whoever controls the moon can target anyplace on Earth; no place would be safe. Therefore, Russians and Americans must remain friends or eliminate each other. He told me he had worked with Tesla, Einstein, Von Broun, Von Neumann and many others.

"'My father broke down and cried when I visited him that Christmas. He said, 'If you only knew the real truth!' But as long as I didn't I was safe, he said. He seemed a frightened man alone with his thoughts, afraid to speak out, trusting no one. He rarely spoke on the phone (our phone had always been tapped) and always thought he was being followed.

"'My father died in the hospital in the arms of a nun, we were told. When my mother wanted to send flowers and candy to this unknown nun, she was told that there had been no nun in his room (though we had seen her) at the time of his fatal 'heart attack'. She couldn't be traced. At his funeral, I saw two Secret Service men at his coffin (wearing the obvious trench coats)...

"'There was something strange about the body in the coffin. I always remember my father's hairy arms and hands. But there was NO HAIR ON THOSE HANDS! His face felt like cold stone, and it had so much makeup that it looked like wax. Was it really my father in the coffin? If so, why had his grave 'disappeared' when I looked for it in the family plot in 1985 -- a plot that dated back hundreds of years? There was no trace that it had ever existed; there were no grave records!

"'And then on May 30, 1962, several months later, he materialized before me and told me he was not dead but only in 'another dimension IN TIME!' I felt his suit, smelled his Molle shaving cream -- and his weight pushed down the mattress on my daybed. He was wearing his usual conservative grey suit; I even felt the material as I touched his knee. He told me to continue his work, but not call on him unless absolutely necessary, as appearing to me was painful. He said that he would make himself known to me 'at the crossroads of my life to help me (and he has kept his promise).'"

Helga interviewed by Vladimir Trezinski (whom i thank for those color photos of lake Tsiolkovsky)..

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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #762 on: Jul 17th, 2016, 4:07pm »

Interesting posts, Pos1tr0n. Many of the things in last two coincide with how I model the conspiracies shaping UFOlogy and our world. Especially if any stuff, like a secret NASA or US Space Force of sorts is true, or succesful research into timetravel/alternate dimensions, they are not meant to be believed by the American/world public. Would secret governments then kill to maintain secrecy, sure. At the very least: they will have muddied the water. Poisoned the well even. Some of the sources you trust may have, not by accident, have been 'leaked' by the very parties you wish to expose, Pos. (I believe it's called 'controlling the flow of information'.)

If there's truth in there, it is almost impossible to make the distinction between real and fake sources.

Have you thought of this? How to solve it?


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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #763 on: Jul 17th, 2016, 7:05pm »

Excerpt from Beyond the light barrier by Elizabeth Klarer mentioning "magnetic probe from Shirley Bay", indicating that Project Magnet - (UFO) study programme established by Transport Canada under direction of senior radio engineer Wilbert B. Smith, already in the early 1960s successfully developed and operated "magnetic probes".

"We are too valuable a prize," said Sheron. "These nations have tried for years to capture us and spent millions of their money on the means to achieve this. Above all, they want our propulsion system and will do anything in their power to get it."

Earth scientists were now closing in with their magnetic probes, clos­ing in around this beautiful spaceship of light. It was invisible to the seek­ing eyes of men and radar, but not to the magnetic probe from Shirley Bay, nor to a Vostok in orbit with a crew of three.

"Earth-constructed flying saucers have been brought to ground," explained Akon, "and their secrets probed by scientists when they crashed back to the surface of Earth. This has caused much confusion among the peoples of Earth. But the propulsion systems of these crafts are not for space travel, only for atmospheric flight. As it will take another two decades before the people of Earth begin to change and respect their envi­ronment within the galaxy, they cannot yet understand the meaning of electrogravitic propulsion systems."
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xx Re: Water, atmosphere and life on the moon
« Reply #764 on: Jul 17th, 2016, 7:14pm »

Connecting the dots, zoom-out, intuition.

on Jul 17th, 2016, 4:07pm, purr wrote:
Interesting posts, Pos1tr0n. Many of the things in last two coincide with how I model the conspiracies shaping UFOlogy and our world. Especially if any stuff, like a secret NASA or US Space Force of sorts is true, or succesful research into timetravel/alternate dimensions, they are not meant to be believed by the American/world public. Would secret governments then kill to maintain secrecy, sure. At the very least: they will have muddied the water. Poisoned the well even. Some of the sources you trust may have, not by accident, have been 'leaked' by the very parties you wish to expose, Pos. (I believe it's called 'controlling the flow of information'.)

If there's truth in there, it is almost impossible to make the distinction between real and fake sources.

Have you thought of this? How to solve it?


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