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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Mirage Men  (Read 24642 times)
Sysconfig
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #105 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 02:34am »

One of the peole during my old drone hunting days I came across was Joe Firmage. He came up as someone who might become a target in a hoax because of his beliefes and his money, due to an experience he had which knocked him off a super star track. all explained in the link. He lived right in the area that was hoaxed. with the Chad fotos.
I am glad he was not, although another name came up, from the paradigm group..also in the area..who claimed to have seen alien writing in an alleged photo shown to him as an atty , under guard..some years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Firmage

any way I am glad Joe is back to his old self and in business with USWest..
Live Long and prosper Brother..you are a very real human being a credit to humanity.
« Last Edit: Jul 28th, 2014, 06:00am by Sysconfig » User IP Logged

Sysconfig
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #106 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 06:03am »

From mirage smoke and mirrors to exo politics and Symbiosis

http://www.rense.com/general10/dissd.htm
There were these photographs of unmistakable -- of a UFO sitting on the ground. It had crashed, apparently. It had hit into this field and had dug up, kind of plowed this kind of trough through this field. It was wedged into the side of this bank. There was snow all around the picture. The vehicle was wedged into the side of this mud-like embankment -- kind of up at an angle. There were Air Force personnel. As I cranked the little handle, and looked at additional photos, these Air Force people were taking pictures. In the photograph they were taking photographs of this vehicle. One of the photos actually had the Air Force personnel with this big long tape measure measuring this thing. You could see that they had these parkas on, with little fur around their hoods. You could see that they had the little name tags on their jacket. They were clearly U.S. Air Force personnel. I was kind-of in this strange state saying: "Here it is!" So I turned the crank for more pictures, and I could see on the side of this craft these, like, little insignias - little symbols. So I turned ahead a couple of pictures to see if there was a closer picture. Sure enough, there was. One of the photos had kind of a close-up picture of these symbols. So what I did is -- I was getting nervous -- I looked around, and the guys weren't watching or anything. They were outside of the room, so I took the yellow pad, and I flipped it open to the little grey cardboard backing and I flipped it under the screen. I shrank the size of the picture to the exact same size as the back of the yellow pad, and traced the actual symbols out in detail, verbatim of what was there. Then I said, like, I'm going to leave. That's it. I've got this, and I don't want to push my luck on this thing...

D; The other question of course is what became of the yellow pad with the cardboard backing?

DS: Oh, I still have that. SDI: You do?

DS: Oh yes.

SDI: Has anyone analyzed that? Have you had anyone take a look at that?

DS: Well actually, no. I've got it in all my Jesuit Headquarters files. I have them all in file drawers that are in the basement of the garage.

SDI: What would be the chances of doing a scan of or reproduction of...

DS: Well, I'm obviously going to have to do that one of these days. You know when I got asked to give a presentation to MUFON, I figured it was just important to tell people about this. I guess I should have realized the potential importance of the data. There should come a time when I should dig these documents out, and make them available, which I am going to have to do.


This is 6 years ago.

I have been trying to find out if he kept his promise and made his stuff available, but no luck.

Does anyone here know if he ever released anything? I'd be interested to see the drawing of the symbols and see if they in any way mach the drone's.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread292727/pg1


That was 7 years ago to this very July or a total of 13 years in the Jesuit Armory...or was it basement?
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http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/Rockefeller%20Documents/Clinton-Rockefeller_Photos.htm#1



Greer and Bassetts Money Tree

http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/Rockefeller%20Documents/Rockefeller_Initiative_Documents.htm


Hillary Shaking Down The Money Tree

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« Last Edit: Jul 28th, 2014, 06:51am by Sysconfig » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #107 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 10:32am »

on Jul 28th, 2014, 06:03am, Sysconfig wrote:
This is 6 years ago.


Thanks, Sys. One of the primary dynamics that led to my increasingly skeptical perspectives was the chronic cultivation of impending revelations.

We see it from the speakers. We hear it from the guests on podcasts. We even observe it on the forums all the time: Something big is coming. Soon.

A very interesting study of such took place by psychologist Leon Festinger, who wrote 'When Prophecy Fails'. He followed the supposed impending revelations that never happened, as well as the excuses offered as explanations.

Chaning gears...

The SoC stuff is interesting. It reminds me of the history of IC delving into organized religion.

We can see such infiltration as referenced in the MKULTRA docs, when the Agency reportedly studied trance states. Then, we have the docs years later demonstrating interest in Unity, I think it was. My point being that, as time went on, I think we get more of an accurate picture that at least one of the ongoing interests was observing the manners people can be so strongly influenced. I think that was something the IC was deeply interested in learning more about, and certain religious movements provided what I strongly suspect were fascinatingly effective examples.
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #108 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 10:42am »

on Jul 27th, 2014, 6:45pm, drwu23 wrote:
Thanks for the general summary;....this thread was getting a bit murky and off topic regarding the various deceptions and games by various parties.
What are your thoughts on why all the 'deception', misdirection, and manipulation of ufo researchers as it applies to the ufo enigma.
Is there an agenda here? To what purpose? Is it just about egos and money or is this about a deeper agenda?

btw...as you are well aware Dr Vallee knows Alexander and Bigelow as well as others in these circles. He also did work for the govt (DARPA) in a computer information capacity.
Is he trustworthy iyo or part of the larger 'game'?


I'm quite confident there is not a single explanation for the purpose of the deception, but that the purposes change from one circumstance to another. I think we have to drill down through specific circumstances to develop better understandings. I also think that often times we are not going to reach conclusive explanations for why certain figures conceal details of information or assist their fellow board members, ufologists, etc. in doing so, but I still feel that accurately identifying the obfuscation and those responsible is more of the solution than the problem.

About Vallee, I wouldn't know. Like you, Doc, I have seen that batted around for years now. My personal opinion on such matters is that I am generally opposed to those sites we see where they have a 'good guys' and 'bad guys' list. I think that oversimplifies the fact that people do lots of different things for lots of different reasons, as well as people should not be judged by association.

My opinion is that a researcher should drill down through the available evidence and try to minimize speculating about intentions and motives, but simply identify what has taken place as best as they can. I think that will take one in the right direction much more often than not.

How about you, Doc? What do you think?
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #109 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 1:27pm »

on Jul 28th, 2014, 10:42am, jjflash wrote:
I'm quite confident there is not a single explanation for the purpose of the deception, but that the purposes change from one circumstance to another. I think we have to drill down through specific circumstances to develop better understandings. I also think that often times we are not going to reach conclusive explanations for why certain figures conceal details of information or assist their fellow board members, ufologists, etc. in doing so, but I still feel that accurately identifying the obfuscation and those responsible is more of the solution than the problem.

About Vallee, I wouldn't know. Like you, Doc, I have seen that batted around for years now. My personal opinion on such matters is that I am generally opposed to those sites we see where they have a 'good guys' and 'bad guys' list. I think that oversimplifies the fact that people do lots of different things for lots of different reasons, as well as people should not be judged by association.

My opinion is that a researcher should drill down through the available evidence and try to minimize speculating about intentions and motives, but simply identify what has taken place as best as they can. I think that will take one in the right direction much more often than not.

How about you, Doc? What do you think?


Regarding motivations for all of these 'games' and connections I suspect you are right in that there are probably many different reasons; some benign and others not. I suspect most of it is simply psy-ops games and is what they do for a living. Whether or not they are hiding 'alien secrets' is anyone's guess.
I have never believed that the 'Govt' or some secret private group, now or in our past, know the ultimate truth about ufos and that they are manipulating humans on earth. While I don't completely rule it out ,I also do not think we have any dead aliens and crashed saucers.
I do think the various agencies would dearly love to get their hands on such tech and alien knowledge should it exist and have actively explored this phenom from the beginning. I think the disinformation is more about their lack of ultimate knowledge than hiding some dark secret about aliens on earth.

As to Dr Vallee I think he's a sincere researcher who knows a lot about the ufo enigma and has many connections to people we probably don't trust , but I don't think he's 'dirty'. I understand that his work for Paranet and later DARPA makes it look like he's an insider but that can be said about others in the ufo arena and it doesn't mean they are 'bad guys'.


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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #110 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 8:00pm »

on Jul 28th, 2014, 1:27pm, drwu23 wrote:
Regarding motivations for all of these 'games' and connections I suspect you are right in that there are probably many different reasons; some benign and others not. I suspect most of it is simply psy-ops games and is what they do for a living. Whether or not they are hiding 'alien secrets' is anyone's guess.
I have never believed that the 'Govt' or some secret private group, now or in our past, know the ultimate truth about ufos and that they are manipulating humans on earth. While I don't completely rule it out ,I also do not think we have any dead aliens and crashed saucers.
I do think the various agencies would dearly love to get their hands on such tech and alien knowledge should it exist and have actively explored this phenom from the beginning. I think the disinformation is more about their lack of ultimate knowledge than hiding some dark secret about aliens on earth.

As to Dr Vallee I think he's a sincere researcher who knows a lot about the ufo enigma and has many connections to people we probably don't trust , but I don't think he's 'dirty'. I understand that his work for Paranet and later DARPA makes it look like he's an insider but that can be said about others in the ufo arena and it doesn't mean they are 'bad guys'.


Sound like reasonable points of view to me, drwu. I largely think things come down to whether or not they can be verified. Then it doesn't matter if the info comes from a spook, whistleblower, abductee, doctor, lawyer or anybody else. I think the opposite applies, too - if it can't be confirmed, then it's just another item for the 'wait and see' file.
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #111 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 8:26pm »

on Jul 28th, 2014, 8:00pm, jjflash wrote:
Sound like reasonable points of view to me, drwu. I largely think things come down to whether or not they can be verified. Then it doesn't matter if the info comes from a spook, whistleblower, abductee, doctor, lawyer or anybody else. I think the opposite applies, too - if it can't be confirmed, then it's just another item for the 'wait and see' file.


Which is what bothers me about posters who seemingly come out of the great white north and state their ideas (usually wild ones at that..) as if they are fact. We are simply too ignorant to see this 'truth' woven into all the lies and deception due to our lack of 'analytical expertise'. Yet nothing is verified or confirmed but of course they know things and we just aren't listening.
I wish I had a dime for every time I read this type of thing on a ufo forum going back the last 14 years.
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #112 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 9:40pm »

Date: 07-27-14
Host: George Knapp
Guest: Jacques F. Vallee

In the first half of the program, George Knapp was joined by legendary ufologist Jacques Vallee, who discussed a recent discrete gathering of international UFO experts that was not mentioned to the public. He revealed that the two-day conference was organized by the French version of NASA, known as CNES, and featured 30 presentations to about 100 attendees. According to Vallee, the focus of the conference revolved around determining the best way to gather and research UFO cases as well as how to synthesize that data.

He attributed the event to a change in the French scientific community, where a new generation has emerged that is willing to take a fresh look at the UFO phenomenon. Unlike UFO research in the United States, which is beset with ideological disputes, Vallee noted, this examination of the phenomenon centered around "a good long look at the data."

To that end, Vallee explained that, fifteen years ago, he designed a data warehouse to collect various UFO sighting databases. Based on conversations from the CNES conference, he declared that "I'm now taking it to the next level." He speculated that there are around 200,000 well-documented cases from groups collecting UFO reports all over the world and this massive trove of information can be mined for new insights into the phenomenon, such as global patterns, physical facts, and special locations where events seem to occur with more frequently.

This statistical approach, Vallee argued, eschews presupposed conclusions and, instead, allows for an unbiased investigation of "researchable questions" that may allow for the ability to predict UFO behavior. Additionally, he marveled that, given the plethora of data, technology, and expertise already available, such a project can begin immediately and in earnest.
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« Reply #113 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 10:00pm »

Control systems within Control systems..or just parallel..while much has been hoaxed..or used to study and manipulate people..and Valle traveled these circles..he maintains a high degree of integrity..acknowledges this is happening..frowns on hypnosis or drugs..but notes because something is absurd..it is not meaningless..he has discovered cases with hundred of witnesses,,cases where groups see and others dont at same time..very interesting ..he seems interested in low energy plasma like the circles but also dozens of brazillian indians..something alexander was interested in the Iran or turkish case..emp bursts..
This alone would interest scientist like Valle and military types..thus forums where reported are attractive....and can tag persons locations times of events etc. even health forums person reporting peculiar burns or sysmptoms appearing inexpplicably..

Jacques Vallee: Of Crop Circles, meme wars and web-based flypaper

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Based on the three earlier posts I have made on this subject, an objective reader might be justified to conclude either that crop circles are the product of hoaxes or the result of experimental military developments. In both cases he or she would also have to admit that they represent a masterful project in social engineering.
If they are hoaxes, the authors have succeeded in capturing the attention of the world in a way that few works of art even achieve. Their productions are surrounded with mystery and the breathless suggestion of Alien contact or ancient druidic magic. The designs even hint at a cosmic signal about the future of our species.

If they are military experiments hidden in plain sight, then the social manipulation of information that serves as camouflage is a remarkable achievement. It shows that the most open form of public communication in the world, namely the web, can be used as a device to hide the reality of a massive technological effort and to distort the debate about the tools it uses and the goals it pursues. Those of us interested in the evolution and future of the Internet should take notice.

Most of the discussion about the circles in books, magazines and websites has been devoted to the physical methods that may be used to generate them: from wooden boards, rakes and brooms to beams from hovering platforms (my personal choice) or even orbiting satellites. Sadly, the social engineering aspect, which represents an equally great achievement, has rarely been mentioned. For me that aspect is the most fascinating part of the crop circle phenomenon, and I submit that the dialogue we have seen on Boing Boing illustrates it well. What we have here is a remarkable example of misdirection around a stunning experiment that remains in full view of a wide public that consistently fails to ask the right questions and keeps re-asserting bogus answers.
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Pentagrammmm2 The unveiling of the "Doug and Dave" hoax itself was a notable example of media promotion. The two British retirees enjoyed front-page articles in the international press and special placement on prime time on world TV programs, a treatment usually reserved for major world events or announcements supported by heavy, professionally-managed advertising budgets. Their "revelation" had an immediate, irreversible effect of locking the concept of crop circles as a hoax in the mind of a very large public, most notably the academic and 'intellectual' community.

As we saw in the responses to my previous posts it is extraordinarily difficult to dislodge such a certainty and re-open the minds of people to alternate views once they have satisfactorily locked onto such an easy, convenient explanation. The presentation of new facts (such as the node explosion that lies beyond the technical capability of our friends Doug and Dave, or the recent announcement that the military had, in fact, deployed beam weapons fired from above) makes no difference in the debate because people just ignore it As we saw, most of the responses to my earlier posts simply re-asserted an existing position (sometimes with considerable aggression) rather than debating the relevance of new data.

This goes well beyond crop circles. For those of us who have followed the development of networks for many years the lessons are sobering. The web is becoming the medium of choice for disinformation and misinformation, including official efforts to inject new "memes" into the culture. Although I remain an optimist about the web as a medium for free exchanges of data and faster communication of high value, it is also a potential tool for propaganda, false rumors intentionally planted and for a range of techniques designed to alter or filter social reality.

Pentagrammmmmm3 This intentional distortion has certainly become a fact of life among ufologists. It seems that every month or so some website claims to have received data from a hidden source, often a "highly-placed" defense or intelligence person, about UFO crashes, live Aliens, secret missions to Mars or contact with hush-hush cosmic locations such as Ummo, Serpo and other wonderful places. The curious thing is that, in cases when it has been possible to reverse-engineer these links, they were often found to originate within the intelligence community or people close to it. The purpose may be to divert attention from real projects, to confuse an adversary or even to release new ideas to test society's reactions. In such situations the community of UFO believers is used only as a convenient resonating chamber: Since the content can never be checked or the origin verified, there is absolutely nothing a researcher can do with the alleged information: photos of bizarre drones that could be digital fakes (or simply the spines of an umbrella thrown up into the air), blurry glows flying over Mexico, official-looking minutes of U.N. meetings that never happened, actual Presidential papers where a few words have been substituted to suggest official contact with Aliens, or pictures of monsters in the woods. These websites attract plenty of attention and a lot of users who in turn amplify the signal with their own fantasies. The process is reminiscent of flypaper: you deploy a device that will make would-be researchers stick to your concept and spend a lot of time discussing and amplifying it instead of going after real data.

The main result is to disturb, drown or negate genuine research into paranormal phenomena, but the intent may well go beyond this effect. Web social patterns have become a strategic global tool. Like the crop circles themselves, they can now be used to alter the public's perception of the present and the future. Mastering such a tool is well worth a few bent stalks of corn.

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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #114 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 10:53pm »

One of my favorite Vallee pieces, Sys. Thanks.
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« Reply #115 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 11:04pm »

on Jul 28th, 2014, 10:53pm, jjflash wrote:
One of my favorite Vallee pieces, Sys. Thanks.



Truth be told JJ....Thank you.. wink


I must change my opinion on Daniel Sheehan..
please read his entire background on wiki..this would make him a target by elements within intel for matters prior to entering ufology..and disclosure work later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Sheehan_(attorney)
Certain things hapened whilst on drone that fortunately were nipped in bud...
« Last Edit: Jul 29th, 2014, 12:50am by Sysconfig » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #116 on: Jul 29th, 2014, 11:44pm »

I found some detailed reading by Jack Sarfatti on Mindnet Journal..now extinct..and archived at another server.
Gives a real feel for the setups and Counter setups..I laughed when Uri Geller was mentioned in reference to one experiment detecting Russian subs..and turned out someone externally tipped them off..Good brief on Gorbachov and the Bulgarian spies..mention of the 400..that may have included Sheehan..Shirley Mclain..the infiltration of the military by the Esane group..etc..I found some surprises in there.

After today I trust no Foundation..missions. not even Peace Corps anyway..enjoy.


http://www.whale.to/b/sarfatti.html
wink wink
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« Reply #117 on: Jul 30th, 2014, 09:46am »

I also enjoyed rereading those Vallee comments....thank you. IMHO one of the few remaining original 'ufologists' who thinks deeply and rationally about the ufo enigma.
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« Reply #118 on: Jul 30th, 2014, 10:10am »

I guess its pretty apparent that one of the things that have made Vallee such a popular figure for so long is his measured approach. I think such researchers in ufology are a rare breed, but there are a limited number who proceed calmly and deliberately.

About Sarfatti, wow. I just skimmed the article, but what can ya say?

Here's one of things I find interesting... many of the same people show up on the radars of other researchers, but for different reasons. For example, Sharon Weinberger included some Sarfatti info in 'Imaginary Weapons'. Similarly, Lisa Pease, who is an expert on the Kennedy assassinations, also became rather knowledgeable about IC guys who moonlight in the UFO community (somewhat by proxy). And there are of course lots of researchers, mental health professionals and doctors who have immersed themselves in researching the MKULTRA trail for entirely different reasons than a UFO-researcher might come at it, yet end up at some of the same places.

I find that interesting... Weinberger couldn't cover the claims of the Targeted Individuals in her WaPo piece, 'Mind Games', without also covering John "Mr. Non-Lethal" Alexander. The UFO spooks wear many hats. I have been moved to wonder if spooks become ufologists, ufologists become spooks, or, at times, if there is much difference at all between the two job descriptions.

Any way we look at it, though, I find it interesting.
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« Reply #119 on: Jul 30th, 2014, 11:41am »

Newspaper documentation of the lawsuits resulting from circumstances surrounding Cameron, the CIA and MKULTRA Subproject 68 are more difficult to obtain than one would think should be the case. The article below, for example, I once had a link to it, but the link no longer worked. I had since lost the link, but was pleased to recently re-discover it on someone's blog.

The link no longer worked, but obtaining it did allow me to try to find the original article through Wayback Machine. Even that involved a number of tries and different attempts, so I am going to go ahead and post the article below for those interested.

Please note the date of the article: 2004. Such lawsuits continued well into this century.


Link:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110718133702/http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article495413.ece


Brainwash victims win cash claims

The Sunday Times [of London via Wayback Machine]

October 17, 2004

HUNDREDS of mentally ill patients who were subjected to barbaric CIA-funded brainwashing experiments by a Scottish doctor could be entitled to compensation following a landmark court ruling.

Doctor Ewan Cameron, who became one of the world’s leading psychiatrists, developed techniques used by Nazi scientists to wipe out the existing personalities of people in his care.

Cameron, who graduated from Glasgow University, was recruited by the CIA during the cold war while working at McGill University in Montreal, Canada.

He carried out mind-control experiments using drugs such as LSD on hundreds of patients, but only 77 of them were awarded compensation.

Now a landmark ruling by a Federal Court judge in Montreal will allow more than 250 former patients, whose claims were rejected, to seek compensation.

Gail Kastner, who underwent electroshock treatment at a Montreal psychiatric institute in 1953, and whose claim was rejected 10 years ago, successfully appealed the judgment.

Last week, Alan Stein, of Montreal law firm Stein and Stein, which represented Kastner, confirmed he was in the process of contacting former clients who could now renew their appeal.

“There are about 200 people still due compensation,” he said. “This judgment should send out strong signals to the Canadian government. Those who have previously missed out should have a strong case for appealing.”

Using techniques similar to those portrayed in the celebrated novel the Manchurian Candidate, it was believed that people could be brainwashed and reprogrammed to carry out specific acts.

Cameron developed a range of depatterning “treatments” while director of the Allan Memorial Institute at McGill University.

Patients were woken from drug-induced stupors two or three times a day for multiple electric shocks. In a specially designed “sleep room” made famous by Anne Collins’s book of the same name, Cameron placed a speaker under the patient’s pillow and relayed negative messages for 16 hours a day.

Kastner was a 19-year-old honours student suffering from mild depression when she first underwent “treatment” in 1953. On returning home she sucked her thumb, demanded to be fed from a bottle, talked in a baby voice and urinated on the floor.

She was ostracised by her affluent family, who were unable to cope with her changed state, and her marriage in 1955 quickly broke down due to her difficulties.

Cameron, who was born in Bridge of Allan in 1901, rose to become the first president of the World Psychiatric Association.

It took two decades and the persistence of Joseph Rauh, the distinguished American civil liberties lawyer, to uncover what happened and secure compensation for some of Cameron’s victims.
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