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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Mirage Men  (Read 22170 times)
drwu23
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #210 on: May 5th, 2015, 08:40am »

on May 4th, 2015, 6:56pm, jjflash wrote:
I think a lot of Vallee's work was interesting, but I never dug any deeper into it than just reading his books, so I don't have any more qualified of an opinion than anybody else. From what I recall of the Fontaine case, I'd say it might be kind of intriguing in some of its potential implications to behavior modification projects and Rendlesham, at least concerning possible hypnosis and behavior manipulation in interrogation. Might be some connections there, I dunno.

As recently as 2010, a Turkish intel officer was convicted of using hypnosis during interrogation:

https://web.archive.org/web/20141216180423/http://www.todayszaman.com/national_retired-officer-gets-75-years-for-hypnosis-in-interrogation_214647.html

It would seem relevant to me to inquire where he received his training in such techniques, for instance. Drugs and torture are of course well documented at Gitmo, but I'm not aware of Uncle Sam playing the hypnosis card lately. But I'd be interested in knowing where the Turkish lieutenant came by such practices.

I never looked into Meier extensively. My gut shot would be a hoax (or a combination of sincere belief coupled with what his camp feels are justifiable exaggerations) and some fairly effective marketing. But I dunno... I've never seen anything about the Meier case that would lead me to particularly think otherwise.

What do you think?


From what I have read, mostly from Dr Vallee in Revelations and comments online, I think the Fontaine and UMMO cases are both some kind of intel exercise designed either as 'practice' or to cause misdirection and misinformation.
I have read a good deal over the years about Meier (one of the first things to really get me interested in the ufo enigma..). I think he did indeed have some kind of 'paranormal' or 'religious psychological' experience when he was younger. I think he eventually believed in his own mind this was from space aliens and then created the whole Pleiadian world around it. Some of his experiences are no doubt fabrications but some are indeed strange and other people in his company have seen and heard weird things. To do all of the things over the years he must be quite a trickster magician.

Are you familiar with a case that Dr Vallee wrote about in Revelations called the Teasdale Inheritance? Another very fascinating case that is most likely another covert ops game. This one is right up your alley. cool
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #211 on: May 6th, 2015, 12:40am »

Thanks, drwu. While I do not now recall all the details and names of Vallee's cases, I do remember that he covered some interesting events that called a lot of things into question. It was some of the first material I read that inspired considering multiple perspectives and potential explanations.
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #212 on: May 6th, 2015, 08:57am »

on May 6th, 2015, 12:40am, jjflash wrote:
Thanks, drwu. While I do not now recall all the details and names of Vallee's cases, I do remember that he covered some interesting events that called a lot of things into question. It was some of the first material I read that inspired considering multiple perspectives and potential explanations.


The Teasdale Inheritance case was very intriguing ...sadly it's not detailed online but it is in his book Revelations if you have access to a copy.
For me that case ,UMMO, and the Meier saga are among some of the weirdest things I have read regarding the ufo enigma.
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« Reply #213 on: May 8th, 2015, 12:59pm »

on May 4th, 2015, 6:56pm, jjflash wrote:
As recently as 2010, a Turkish intel officer was convicted of using hypnosis during interrogation:

https://web.archive.org/web/20141216180423/http://www.todayszaman.com/national_retired-officer-gets-75-years-for-hypnosis-in-interrogation_214647.html

It would seem relevant to me to inquire where he received his training in such techniques, for instance. Drugs and torture are of course well documented at Gitmo, but I'm not aware of Uncle Sam playing the hypnosis card lately. But I'd be interested in knowing where the Turkish lieutenant came by such practices.


Hmm... potentially kinda interesting... 'The Intercept' cited forms filed to the DoJ for its report today that a former DCI will be lobbying on behalf of Turkey:


FORMER CIA DIRECTOR PORTER GOSS REGISTERS TO LOBBY FOR TURKEY

The Intercept

May 8, 2015

Former Central Intelligence Director Porter Goss is taking an unusual swing through the revolving door: He recently registered to lobby for the government of Turkey, according to forms filed with the Justice Department.

Goss registered through his new employer, Dickstein Shapiro, which has a longstanding relationship with the Turkish government.

The disclosure shows Goss will advise Turkey on a variety of issues, including counter-terrorism efforts, lobby members of Congress on “issues of importance to Turkey,” and notify Turkey of actions in Congress or the Executive Branch.

Read the full article, which includes supporting links and an uploaded copy of the forms filed, at:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/08/former-cia-director-porter-goss-registers-lobby-turkey/
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« Reply #214 on: May 8th, 2015, 1:07pm »

For JJFlash:

http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/forums/mysterious-britain/ufos/the-teesdale-inheritance.html

A summary of the events Dr Vallee wrote about in Revelations.

"This a very obscure and very little known episode of the neverending UFO saga which deserves special mention. "

« Last Edit: May 8th, 2015, 1:37pm by drwu23 » User IP Logged

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« Reply #215 on: May 9th, 2015, 12:42am »

Thanks, Doc!
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« Reply #216 on: May 27th, 2015, 12:31am »

CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90

Central Intelligence Agency

[...]

The Agency was also involved with Davidson and Keyhoe in two rather famous UFO cases in the 1950s, which helped contribute to a growing sense of public distrust of CIA with regard to UFOs. One focused on what was reported to have been a tape recording of a radio signal from a flying saucer; the other on reported photographs of a flying saucer. The "radio code" incident began innocently enough in 1955, when two elderly sisters in Chicago, Mildred and Marie Maier, reported in the Journal of Space Flight their experiences with UFOs, including the recording of a radio program in which an unidentified code was reportedly heard. The sisters taped the program and other ham radio operators also claimed to have heard the "space message." OSI became interested and asked the Scientific Contact Branch to obtain a copy of the recording. (52)

Field officers from the Contact Division (CD), one of whom was Dewelt Walker, made contact with the Maier sisters, who were "thrilled that the government was interested," and set up a time to meet with them. (53) In trying to secure the tape recording, the Agency officers reported that they had stumbled upon a scene from Arsenic and Old Lace. "The only thing lacking was the elderberry wine," Walker cabled Headquarters. After reviewing the sisters' scrapbook of clippings from their days on the stage, the officers secured a copy of the recording. (54) OSI analyzed the tape and found it was nothing more than Morse code from a US radio station.

The matter rested there until UFOlogist Leon Davidson talked with the Maier sisters in 1957. The sisters remembered they had talked with a Mr. Walker who said he was from the US Air Force. Davidson then wrote to a Mr. Walker, believing him to be a US Air Force Intelligence Officer from Wright-Patterson, to ask if the tape had been analyzed at ATIC. Dewelt Walker replied to Davidson that the tape had been forwarded to proper authorities for evaluation, and no information was available concerning the results. Not satisfied, and suspecting that Walker was really a CIA officer, Davidson next wrote DCI Allen Dulles demanding to learn what the coded message revealed and who Mr. Walker was. (55) The Agency, wanting to keep Walker's identity as a CIA employee secret, replied that another agency of the government had analyzed the tape in question and that Davidson would be hearing from the Air Force. (56) On 5 August, the Air Force wrote Davidson saying that Walker "was and is an Air Force Officer" and that the tape "was analyzed by another government organization." The Air Force letter confirmed that the recording contained only identifiable Morse code which came from a known US-licensed radio station. (57)

Davidson wrote Dulles again. This time he wanted to know the identity of the Morse operator and of the agency that had conducted the analysis. CIA and the Air Force were now in a quandary. The Agency had previously denied that it had actually analyzed the tape. The Air Force had also denied analyzing the tape and claimed that Walker was an Air Force officer. CIA officers, under cover, contacted Davidson in Chicago and promised to get the code translation and the identification of the transmitter, if possible. (58)

In another attempt to pacify Davidson, a CIA officer, again under cover and wearing his Air Force uniform, contacted Davidson in New York City. The CIA officer explained that there was no super agency involved and that Air Force policy was not to disclose who was doing what. While seeming to accept this argument, Davidson nevertheless pressed for disclosure of the recording message and the source. The officer agreed to see what he could do. (59) After checking with Headquarters, the CIA officer phoned Davidson to report that a thorough check had been made and, because the signal was of known US origin, the tape and the notes made at the time had been destroyed to conserve file space. (60)

Incensed over what he perceived was a runaround, Davidson told the CIA officer that "he and his agency, whichever it was, were acting like Jimmy Hoffa and the Teamster Union in destroying records which might indict them." (61) Believing that any more contact with Davidson would only encourage more speculation, the Contact Division washed its hands of the issue by reporting to the DCI and to ATIC that it would not respond to or try to contact Davidson again. (62) Thus, a minor, rather bizarre incident, handled poorly by both CIA and the Air Force, turned into a major flap that added fuel to the growing mystery surrounding UFOs and CIA's role in their investigation.

Full article:

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/97unclass/ufo.html
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« Reply #217 on: May 27th, 2015, 11:15am »

Circumstances explored in the previous post in this thread would have certainly contributed to former Manhattan Project member Dr. Leon Davidson's contempt for the CIA and OSI. Following the 1957 run around he got while trying to investigate the agencies' handling of the Maier sisters' case, Davidson published his 1959 article in which he asserted the CIA had been using electronic countermeasures technology to exploit the UFO phenomenon as a psychological warfare tool.

"I contend that since 1951, the CIA has caused or sponsored saucer sightings for its own purposes," Davidson wrote in 'ECM + CIA = UFO'.
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« Reply #218 on: Aug 25th, 2015, 3:14pm »

From 'Heretic Among Heretics: Jacques Vallee Interview', conducted approximately 15 years ago:

Vallee: The Bentwaters case [in which American servicemen at an Air Force base in England observed a disk-shaped craft land in the forest] is a classic. At the landing site, they had a mix of ordinary guards, officers, sentries and so on--they all had orders to go to the site under a scenario. And that's not what would of happened if the encounter were real--if a strange object landed on the base you wouldn't be sending out a hundred people without weapons. The thing has all the earmarks of being staged for the benefit of the witnesses, so that they could be studied and the reactions of the different psychological types and of different ranks could be studied. And when you think about it, it's not that weird. If you were in charge of a project like that, you'd have to test it in conditions where nobody is danger and you can get the data you need. In cases like this one--not many but a few of them--that I investigated, I had to conclude that these were tests of virtual reality projectors.

[...]

Vallee: In some cases the UFO community may be simply used in a sociological experiment because they are a convenient group of people to see how they would react to different rumors. [Suppose the government loses a nuclear weapon over a foreign country.] You still have to go and recover that thing. And you can't tell people what you're doing, so you have to be able to very quickly plant a story. You might plant a story that this was a flying saucer from Venus. That would be so ridiculous that scientists wouldn't go check. You might have a few journalists there, but you can tell them whatever you want, and you can give them photographs of whatever. And so all you need is to distract everybody for two or three days, time to bring the equipment, get everything out, recover whatever was scattered and go away. I think there are cases where exactly that has happened. And those are sort of the great UFO stories that people still tell around campfire.

But I think there was no UFO there. I think the UFO story was invented-- I was saying earlier it's healthy to be skeptical. I respect people who have a skeptical argument there. Jim Oberg, who is a specialist in the Russian space program, pointed out to me that some of the sightings that I published from the Soviet Union--a strange yellowish crescent seen going through the sky by many people in the Soviet Union--that those were rocket tests that were illegal under the Salt agreement; and obviously, they couldn't hide it in the sky. . . so the government planted the story that there was a flying saucer, and that got into the newspapers.

Again, the UFO research community is a useful laboratory in which to observe the effects of propaganda and disinformation, since it is driven in large part by an intent to expose "the coverup." This creates an opportunity for people to masquerade as good guys and "reveal" all sorts of unverifiable rumors. They meet with a receptive audience because the context is one of "independent inquiry of original, bold, nonconformist ideas. Does that mean we should necessarily believe the man who claims he was in NATO intelligence and saw a classified document about the four humanoid races that live on the moon? I don't think so.
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« Reply #219 on: Aug 25th, 2015, 3:34pm »

on Aug 25th, 2015, 3:14pm, jjflash wrote:
From 'Heretic Among Heretics: Jacques Vallee Interview', conducted approximately 15 years ago:

Vallee: The Bentwaters case [in which American servicemen at an Air Force base in England observed a disk-shaped craft land in the forest] is a classic. At the landing site, they had a mix of ordinary guards, officers, sentries and so on--they all had orders to go to the site under a scenario. And that's not what would of happened if the encounter were real--if a strange object landed on the base you wouldn't be sending out a hundred people without weapons. The thing has all the earmarks of being staged for the benefit of the witnesses, so that they could be studied and the reactions of the different psychological types and of different ranks could be studied. And when you think about it, it's not that weird. If you were in charge of a project like that, you'd have to test it in conditions where nobody is danger and you can get the data you need. In cases like this one--not many but a few of them--that I investigated, I had to conclude that these were tests of virtual reality projectors.

[...]

Vallee: In some cases the UFO community may be simply used in a sociological experiment because they are a convenient group of people to see how they would react to different rumors. [Suppose the government loses a nuclear weapon over a foreign country.] You still have to go and recover that thing. And you can't tell people what you're doing, so you have to be able to very quickly plant a story. You might plant a story that this was a flying saucer from Venus. That would be so ridiculous that scientists wouldn't go check. You might have a few journalists there, but you can tell them whatever you want, and you can give them photographs of whatever. And so all you need is to distract everybody for two or three days, time to bring the equipment, get everything out, recover whatever was scattered and go away. I think there are cases where exactly that has happened. And those are sort of the great UFO stories that people still tell around campfire.

But I think there was no UFO there. I think the UFO story was invented-- I was saying earlier it's healthy to be skeptical. I respect people who have a skeptical argument there. Jim Oberg, who is a specialist in the Russian space program, pointed out to me that some of the sightings that I published from the Soviet Union--a strange yellowish crescent seen going through the sky by many people in the Soviet Union--that those were rocket tests that were illegal under the Salt agreement; and obviously, they couldn't hide it in the sky. . . so the government planted the story that there was a flying saucer, and that got into the newspapers.

Again, the UFO research community is a useful laboratory in which to observe the effects of propaganda and disinformation, since it is driven in large part by an intent to expose "the coverup." This creates an opportunity for people to masquerade as good guys and "reveal" all sorts of unverifiable rumors. They meet with a receptive audience because the context is one of "independent inquiry of original, bold, nonconformist ideas. Does that mean we should necessarily believe the man who claims he was in NATO intelligence and saw a classified document about the four humanoid races that live on the moon? I don't think so.


Everyone here and anyone who is seriously interested in the ufo phenom should read that entire interview.
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« Reply #220 on: Aug 26th, 2015, 08:26am »

on Aug 25th, 2015, 3:34pm, drwu23 wrote:
Everyone here and anyone who is seriously interested in the ufo phenom should read that entire interview.


Yeah, he has a pretty even handed approach and his perspectives warrant consideration, especially as compared to many of the other lines of thought often given much more attention.
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« Reply #221 on: Aug 26th, 2015, 10:07am »

on Aug 26th, 2015, 08:26am, jjflash wrote:
Yeah, he has a pretty even handed approach and his perspectives warrant consideration, especially as compared to many of the other lines of thought often given much more attention.


I've been singing his praises for years to the point where in the past some here and on other ufo forums thought I was his publicist.
laugh
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« Reply #222 on: Sep 4th, 2015, 11:37pm »

From an August 28, 2015, blog post composed by Col. John Alexander and titled, 'Magic: What If It Was Real?':

Las Vegas is home to many magicians, most of whom are hard core illusionists. Concentrating on sleight of hand, misdirection, and other tricks of professional conjurers, they ply their trade and compete for bookings. But what if, just maybe, sometimes the magic was real? That is exactly what a small eclectic group, comprised mostly of entertainers who regularly engage in mystifying performances, set out to explore with unmapped territory in an innovative meeting titled PSI Posium.

For three days they met at Sunset Station Hotel and Casino spending many hours listening to presentations, practicing the arts and exchanging ideas and concepts that can be incorporated into public demonstrations. PSI Posium was the brainchild of Alain Nu (The Man Who Knows) and Jerome Finley (a Showman Shaman) both of whom have personal experiences that seem to defy conventional explanations.

[...]

In his performances Alain Nu employs techniques that blur the lines between science and unexplained phenomena and often leaves the audience confounded thus stretching their belief systems. Here Alain demonstrated amazing tricks that caused metal spoons to appear to bend in his hand. But knowing that was an illusion does not negate veridical reports of spontaneous events of true psychokinesis. Rather, the trick provides a model that allows the mind to be open to exceptional experiences.

Jerome Finley also transcends and obscures the boundaries. With Native-American ancestry, he is trained as a master hypnotherapist and Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) practitioner. In addition he is also a Sangoma, or traditional healer, who learned the craft of divining bones as an apprentice in Swahililand, South Africa. A charming performer, Finley was able demonstrate the skills for locating hidden items by what appeared to be telepathic means. The performance was so convincing that none of the attendees doubted the reality of the capability.

Rounding out the agenda was a young, charismatic Canadian who goes by Aaron Alexander (stage name and no relation). An accomplished psychologist, he has pushed the envelope of that profession. He provided quick measures to establish rapport using minimal physical contact. Aaron also taught skills that defy common understanding such as the ability to cause people to respond to force that is not applied with any direct contact. Difficult to describe, examples are available on the Internet

All men are authors. In his writing Finley notes the techniques mental information acquisition are real and do not entail chicanery. In Guerilla Q&A he states, "to be caught in a process of trickery means game over."

[...]

Unlike most gatherings of magicians, PSI Posium entertained the notion that real magic, i.e. not tricks or illusions involved, does happen. Supporting that concept the U.S. Army for twenty years conducted a secret program, last known as Star Gate, the involved both research and application of psychic spying. And yes, it did pay off - sometimes. Allowing for the possibility of psychic capabilities, what is needed is for serious researchers to explore the anomalies that are observed around the world.
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« Reply #223 on: Sep 5th, 2015, 06:27am »

on Sep 4th, 2015, 11:37pm, jjflash wrote:
From an August 28, 2015, blog post composed by Col. John Alexander and titled, 'Magic: What If It Was Real?':

Las Vegas is home to many magicians, most of whom are hard core illusionists. Concentrating on sleight of hand, misdirection, and other tricks of professional conjurers, they ply their trade and compete for bookings. But what if, just maybe, sometimes the magic was real? That is exactly what a small eclectic group, comprised mostly of entertainers who regularly engage in mystifying performances, set out to explore with unmapped territory in an innovative meeting titled PSI Posium.

For three days they met at Sunset Station Hotel and Casino spending many hours listening to presentations, practicing the arts and exchanging ideas and concepts that can be incorporated into public demonstrations. PSI Posium was the brainchild of Alain Nu (The Man Who Knows) and Jerome Finley (a Showman Shaman) both of whom have personal experiences that seem to defy conventional explanations.

[...]

In his performances Alain Nu employs techniques that blur the lines between science and unexplained phenomena and often leaves the audience confounded thus stretching their belief systems. Here Alain demonstrated amazing tricks that caused metal spoons to appear to bend in his hand. But knowing that was an illusion does not negate veridical reports of spontaneous events of true psychokinesis. Rather, the trick provides a model that allows the mind to be open to exceptional experiences.

Jerome Finley also transcends and obscures the boundaries. With Native-American ancestry, he is trained as a master hypnotherapist and Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) practitioner. In addition he is also a Sangoma, or traditional healer, who learned the craft of divining bones as an apprentice in Swahililand, South Africa. A charming performer, Finley was able demonstrate the skills for locating hidden items by what appeared to be telepathic means. The performance was so convincing that none of the attendees doubted the reality of the capability.

Rounding out the agenda was a young, charismatic Canadian who goes by Aaron Alexander (stage name and no relation). An accomplished psychologist, he has pushed the envelope of that profession. He provided quick measures to establish rapport using minimal physical contact. Aaron also taught skills that defy common understanding such as the ability to cause people to respond to force that is not applied with any direct contact. Difficult to describe, examples are available on the Internet

All men are authors. In his writing Finley notes the techniques mental information acquisition are real and do not entail chicanery. In Guerilla Q&A he states, "to be caught in a process of trickery means game over."

[...]

Unlike most gatherings of magicians, PSI Posium entertained the notion that real magic, i.e. not tricks or illusions involved, does happen. Supporting that concept the U.S. Army for twenty years conducted a secret program, last known as Star Gate, the involved both research and application of psychic spying. And yes, it did pay off - sometimes. Allowing for the possibility of psychic capabilities, what is needed is for serious researchers to explore the anomalies that are observed around the world.


Interesting piece since Alexander was allegedly involved with such things as Psi when he worked for the military.

I'm a fan of magic but I don't watch it much anymore though I do watch Penn and Teller Fool Us on TV.

This sort of fits in with the Sheldrake link that Swamp posted recently in another thread here concerning a controversial TED talk by him and Graham Hancock.
The idea of 'real magic' or real 'paranormal' events and consciousness interacting with the very nature of reality has attracted mankind from the very beginning. Sheldrake touches on some of these aspects with his theory of Morphic Resonance.
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #224 on: Jul 14th, 2016, 7:32pm »

How the CIA Hoodwinked Hollywood via The Atlantic
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