Board Logo
« Mirage Men »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
May 29th, 2017, 08:16am


Visit the UFO Casebook Web Site

*Totally FREE 24/7 Access *Your Nickname and Avatar *Private Messages

*Join today and be a part of one of the largest UFO sites on the Net.


« Previous Topic | Next Topic »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5  ...  16 Notify Send Topic Print
 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Mirage Men  (Read 20983 times)
Sysconfig
Guest
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #30 on: Jun 18th, 2014, 10:09am »

It would be funny if it was not so tragic.. sad
User IP Logged

drwu23
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 6591
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #31 on: Jun 18th, 2014, 12:59pm »

on Jun 17th, 2014, 10:12pm, Sysconfig wrote:
Doc..He would say..truth is stranger than fiction..
you would like it..I won't spoil your read..certainly provides the reason for the staying power of the protocols of Zion in diverse places.


It's on my list of novels to read over the summer.
cool
User IP Logged

jjflash
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM


Posts: 1476
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #32 on: Jun 18th, 2014, 9:53pm »

on Jun 17th, 2014, 01:47am, Sysconfig wrote:
The Mirage Machine, its Men and Their amazing Techni Color Coats.
In my random searches researching chinese pyramids I inadvertently hit this old article at angelfire.
Its about the krill report..now..its not that the report said so much how it came into the meme stream but who helped..
http://www.angelfire.com/ky/robinhd/Hypothesis.html

Back in 1987, shortly after I asked MUFON director Walt Andrus what MUFON was all about and he directed me to their local director, John Lear, I decided to gather all the books and materials about the UFO/Mutilation phenomena I had accumulated over several years and create a report which touched on all known aspects of the problem, since at the time there was no summary in existence that attempted to do this. I gave a copy to John Lear, and he mailed out ten copies to friends and it spread like wildfire, eventually ending up with Arcturus books, who called me and requested a "cleanup" because it was publishable in terms of the interest of the time.


In the interest of time I would not bother reading the rest of Krill .

As I saw the name John lear..a very charming scoundrel in ufology ..he is..really..I knew what that would lead to..as I had gained some info on him from a sworn enemy I met at ATS.. involved in the starwalker hoax in Australia ..who tried to ride the caret hoax with an alleged witness. while offering 20 percent returns on investments..curiously...I never read him going to jail and what happened to the monies scammed..nuff said.

ufology is very competitive and brings out all sorts of characters and businesses..


which lead me to mufon
what can I say..enough can't be said but its ex director james carrion tried his best in glowing terms. I had the pleasure of corresponding with James during the caret matter..and witnessed the trouncing at Open minds . At the time I was unaware of the internal battle he was undergoing at Mufon and its dubious practices which led to his resignation. He is a brilliant young man, ex NSA and business avvy and he explains what really happened..


http://mufonalookattheorganization.yolasite.com/carrion-response-to-clift-int-on-pippin.php

now this in turn lead to this other article
http://mufonalookattheorganization.yolasite.com/mufon-scientology-and-the-fbi.php

which leads me to the question as there appeared in Open minds form a scientology connection to one of the admins defending the Stolen Valor Thurmon affair as well as the Victor Martinez and Doty connections..and in this article an FBI and Scientology connection as well with the Mufon Director ..who died in a mysterious accident.
Several identities..bizarre change of personality..a Coral Gables Florida connection..recruitment of abductees..
florida also popping up in Caret.and other cases..like Titor..

Makes me wonder what Mufon is really a front for..and are scientology and Government disinformation artists working hand in hand, at least a nod and a wink, with Mufon as a base of operations for injecting questionable material for other agenda?


Thanks very much, Sysconfig! Very interesting. I think this thread has shaped up quite effectively into a rather intriguing sampling of most questionable circumstances. As you might imagine, I could add many thoughts, but I will try to be at least somewhat concise.

My interactions with conspiracy-researchers showed me that at least some of them strongly suspect Lear remained CIA throughout his misadventures. Lisa Pease, for instance, an expert on the RFK assassination, stated via Twitter, "And you should read Anne Goodpasture's deposition [on the JFK circumstances] in which she mentions Lear. He was always CIA." Pease then added, "And by that I mean, he would never leak ACTUAL secrets." She may very well be correct.

The James Carrion/Drone/Open Minds Forum games were indeed interesting, Sys. Lots of implications and unanswered questions.

I happen to currently be reading Carrion's just recently published book, The Rosetta Deception. I have long appreciated his style of research: locate the documents, cite the sources, explain his interpretations. The down side is that most people lack the willingness to follow along and consider his lines of reasoning. But what I think people such as him, and you, in your mention of the mind as a battle ground, are entirely right about is that from a military perspective, everything is all about weapons application.

Weapons, weapons, weapons. If there is a spook in the mix or a military officer in the loop, it's because they want to weaponize the topic. The sooner the UFO community begins to understand that, the sooner they will more accurately grasp some of the otherwise seemingly mysterious reasons spooks are so ever present in ufology and eternally interested in conducting deception operations through the UFO community.

In my opinion, a most relevant post from Carrion... please note the questioning funding sources:

http://followthemagicthread.blogspot.com/2011/01/strange-bedfellows.html
User IP Logged

The UFO Trail
Sysconfig
Guest
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #33 on: Jun 19th, 2014, 8:19pm »

Yes I read that..and all that money James put out of his pocket..I hope he got it back.
He is actually one of the few people who had an inside track or birds eye view on the drone. Bigelows money and problems came after that. When the Ufo hunters rush to trademark or register the name was when I realized the business aspect to mufon .
James was shrewd and he put in first Sci fi channel and History channel ..lets just say 2 channels were laying claim just at the time the drone matter as being covered..leading to 2 shows being broadcast almost simultaneously.
One would think with the video graphics people on the set we could have gotten more analysis with the science available..yet all we got were ..well just looking at it.the lights all wrong... opinions such as marc antonios and maybe the ILM chap Biedny who later worked on paracast

Truth be told its exactly the kind of thing the DRT objected to, however they in turn.. rejected an offer to send these pictures or images to a genuine internationally recognized image forensics person at a major university. I still have the price quote to this day..5k dollars..yet they spent 10k dollars on flyers..PIs and tshirts..

With a show and smell of money ..I don't think either side wanted a solution..
Do you see what I am getting at..had the photos been sent to such a place..the hoax would not have lasted a week.

You mention weaponiztion..I would add that weapons need a staging area..and a delivery system..what better delivery system..than c2c and EF a veritable smorgasbord of hoaxes and recently just used to market nvidias chip via crop circle..

I can imagine the c2c people saying..what is it about entertainment you don't understand?
I would say..Mufon is not far from that or there already....especially if it can capitalize on a show like History channel.

When James said beware the matrix from Warners..he was not far off the mark..I would say..spot on. wink
and if we were to see all its true machinations..I doubt anyone but the insane would submit a report.
« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2014, 8:28pm by Sysconfig » User IP Logged

jjflash
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM


Posts: 1476
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #34 on: Jun 19th, 2014, 9:35pm »

I understand your lines of reasoning, Sys. Thanks for posting. I think Carrion - and others - are correct that UFO Land at times serves as bit of a proving ground... a lab, if you will.

I was putting together the following post when you made your last post in this thread:

Frequently in the UFO community, including on this forum, we see witnesses asked why they think their experiences had something to do with literal extraterrestrials. I propose that a primary answer to that question is because they have been conditioned to make such suppositions; they have been repeatedly led to think so.

This is neither to suggest all reported experiences are necessarily of mundane natures nor all seemingly paranormal circumstances are the work of the Mirage Men. It is not my aim in this post to explain either UFOs or alleged alien abduction. My goal is to inspire a person or two to consider the extents we may leap to unfounded speculation, and a primary reason we might do so is because we have been conditioned to fail to realize we are even making such a leap; we sometimes think it is perfectly rational and normal to make what might very well otherwise be identified as a completely unfounded assumption.

UFO Hunters. Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Communion. Hopefully, a great deal of citation is not needed to demonstrate popular culture has been inundated with images of ET. Please consider it is not necessary for all of these images to be products of Mirage Men for the result to be just as inevitable: the public embraces and expects an alien presence.

And there may be one. I couldn't say for sure, but I can pretty positively point out a few circumstances in which that conditioning is leading us to make some premature assumptions – on rather grand scales, I might add.

Consider, please, the case of Robert Taylor:

on Jun 3rd, 2014, 12:29pm, hyundisonata wrote:
That’s where you are wrong Skep; there is a heap of evidence. this one that I keep putting up is the perfect evidence as it was a full investigation , now for some odd reason both skeptics and believers wont touch it with a barge pole , and you have to ask why as the evidence could prove for or against . Now with this being an open case the evidence has to be kept so every sample etc still exists and with modern forensics it would be a walk in the park. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taylor_incident now there would be nothing stopping skeptic or believer such as MUFON approaching his wife who is still alive and asking her to demand the evidence be looked at again, add some publicity and bobs your uncle


As suggested above, the circumstances have been offered for review a number of times under the context of being a strong candidate for alien abduction. However, one might find a number of problems with not only suggesting it a strong candidate, but even a reasonable supposition.

If the link provided is a reasonably accurate assessment of the case, Mr. Taylor did not report seeing any beings. Neither did he see a particularly stunning flying object. He apparently reported no memories of alleged aliens, medical exams or much else other than passing out as he interpreted some kind of devices on the ground to be grabbing at him.

Besides the fact the man was losing consciousness, which should be a concern of accuracy in itself, there are not even any aliens in this apparently highly valued case. Has it really come to that?

What would possibly lead people – and many more since – to believe such an event had anything at all to do with interplanetary travelers? Personal conditioning. Too many movies. Too many books on abduction. Too little critical thinking. As Dr. Vallee described in his theory of crop circles, an all too willing to be deceived public – and that is the case whether or not such events center around Mirage Men. The well is long since tainted.

In closing, please consider the extents the Mirage Men understand the significance of conditioned behavior and conditioned beliefs. After all, they have spent hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars exploring its significance and perfecting manners to achieve desired results.

WaPo reported just today that the CIA devised a plan to produce and distribute a “demon” toy figure of bin Laden to counter his influence. “The goal of the short-lived project was simple,” WaPo reported, “spook children and their parents, causing them to turn away from the actual bin Laden.” The article contains photos of the proposed toy for those interested.

Again, please understand I am not suggesting that all reported events of high strangeness are necessarily without merit. I am suggesting we give a bit more conscious thought to how we form our suppositions, and whether those suppositions are based on sound logic or the influence of pop culture, which happens to sometimes also be the intelligence community.
« Last Edit: Jun 20th, 2014, 02:54am by jjflash » User IP Logged

The UFO Trail
Sysconfig
Guest
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #35 on: Jun 20th, 2014, 12:36am »

Good read! smiley

here is something I ran across from Toms Dispatch

ttp://www.tomdispatch.com/
As Iraq was unraveling last week and the possible outlines of the first jihadist state in modern history were coming into view, I remembered this nugget from the summer of 2002. At the time, journalist Ron Suskind had a meeting with “a senior advisor” to President George W. Bush (later identified as Karl Rove). Here’s how he described part of their conversation:

“The aide said that guys like me were ‘in what we call the reality-based community,’ which he defined as people who ‘believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.’ I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ‘That's not the way the world really works anymore,’ he continued. ‘We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.’”
« Last Edit: Jun 20th, 2014, 01:01am by Sysconfig » User IP Logged

jjflash
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM


Posts: 1476
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #36 on: Jun 20th, 2014, 8:09pm »

on Jun 20th, 2014, 12:36am, Sysconfig wrote:
Good read! smiley

here is something I ran across from Toms Dispatch

ttp://www.tomdispatch.com/
As Iraq was unraveling last week and the possible outlines of the first jihadist state in modern history were coming into view, I remembered this nugget from the summer of 2002. At the time, journalist Ron Suskind had a meeting with “a senior advisor” to President George W. Bush (later identified as Karl Rove). Here’s how he described part of their conversation:

“The aide said that guys like me were ‘in what we call the reality-based community,’ which he defined as people who ‘believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.’ I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ‘That's not the way the world really works anymore,’ he continued. ‘We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.’”


I wouldn't disagree with that. I can very easily envision such a conversation taking place.

Oh, those Mirage Men...


Hypnosis as a Criminal Defense

The UFO Trail

June 20, 2014

I was recently alerted via a tweet by Dr. Jeffrey Kaye of a declassified CIA memo I found interesting. Kaye is a San Francisco Bay area psychologist and writer who focuses upon human rights issues, the intelligence community and related circumstances.

The 5 May 1955 memo is titled, Hypnotism and Covert Operations. Its author is not identified. The memo contains such ominous observations as the potential of hypnosis as a covert weapon would be more thoroughly understood if field experiments, that could not be conducted by what was termed a laboratory worker, were carried out.

Such CIA documents are unfortunately not unusual for the era. What caught my eye about this particular memo, however, was a reference to an unspecified legal case in which a hypnotist was apparently convicted for the actions of their hypnosis subject. After you take a moment to let that settle in, please consider, and I quote:

"Currently there is a murder trial in [redacted] in which the murderer has been judged to have been under hypnosis at the time of the crime. He has been retried, released and the hypnotist tried and convicted. The case is now under appeal. The comment of the three knowledgeable informants was that the hypnotist must have been a rank amateur to have been found out since any experienced operator would have known how to suggest away the fact that he had arranged the crime."

Wow. Is that the voice of experience, or just speculation, one might be inclined to ask.

Initial research of such circumstances revealed an 1895 New York Times article titled, Hypnotism as a Defense. While the Kansas case explored is obviously not the case referenced in the 1955 CIA memo, it is indeed interesting.

Matters of money seemed to result in Anderson Gray's desire to murder a rival. He apparently used his study of hypnosis to persuade a subject to attempt, unsuccessfully, to carry out the crime. However, the greedy man's fate - and the fate of his rival - were sealed when he tried a second time!

The evil doer was accused of hypnotizing yet another subject and framing the circumstances in a manner that would justify the subject killing the target, which took place. Given the court's interpretation of the circumstances and the bizarre history, Gray was convicted of a murder committed by another man, his hypnosis subject.

A more likely candidate for the case mentioned in the CIA memo was a 1950's era chain of events occurring in Denmark involving Bjorn Nielsen and Palle Hardrup. Sources include The Assassinations: Probe Magazine on JFK, MLK, RFK and Malcolm X, among others. In a complex series of trials, retrials and reversals surrounding bank robbery and murder, hypnotist Nielsen was convicted for the actions of his hypnosis subject, Hardrup.

Key personnel during the CIA venture into hypnosis included a number of prominent professionals. Alden Sears conducted work in MKULTRA Subprojects 5, 25, 29 and 49. CIA consultant, New York psychologist and former president of the American Society for Clinical and Experimental Hypnosis Milton Kline told groundbreaking writer/researcher John Marks that he could create a patsy in three months and an assassin in six.

Psychiatrist Martin Orne conducted hypnosis-related research within MKULTRA Subproject 84. He published many papers on the subject of hypnosis and was considered a leading expert. Orne explained to the Agency and on a number of occasions that persuading someone to do something while hypnotized was not entirely different from encouraging a person not hypnotized to carry out a desired action, in that the circumstances had to be framed in manners of which the subject would approve and agree. For instance, whether killing a person is atrocious or heroic is a matter of context, and possibly as understood by Anderson Gray in 1890's Kansas.

Edward F. Deshere, in his now declassified CIA report, Hypnosis in Interrogation, referenced the work of Orne several times. Deshere wrote:

"Orne has shown that the demand characteristics of an experimental situation may greatly influence a subject's hypnotic behavior. It is clear that at some level any cooperative subject wishes an experiment to 'work out,' wishes to help fulfill the experimenter's expectations. If he grasps the purpose of the experiment or the bias of the experimenter, he is disposed toward producing behavior which will confirm the experimenter's hypothesis. This is particularly true in a hypnotic relationship."

Orne was featured in an article written by Dr. Patricia Greenfield, the sister of John Marks, published in the December 1977 edition of the American Psychological Association Monitor. Commenting on medical professionals acting as MKULTRA consultants and the liabilities inherent to conducting such research, Orne told Greenfield, "We are sufficiently ineffective so that our findings can be published."


Original post with supporting links at:

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2014/06/hypnosis-as-criminal-defense.html
User IP Logged

The UFO Trail
jjflash
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM


Posts: 1476
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #37 on: Jun 21st, 2014, 3:20pm »

In the last post in this thread I referenced a now declassified CIA report composed by Edward F. Deshere and titled, Hypnosis in Interrogation. I'd like to consider the contents of that report a bit further, please, and particularly its apparent documentation of the activities of MKULTRA Subproject 84 lead researcher, Dr. Martin Orne. Deshere wrote:

"A captive's anxiety could be heightened, for example, by rumors that the interrogator possesses semi-magical techniques of extracting information. A group of collaborating captives could verify that interrogees lose all control over their actions, and so on. After such preliminary conditioning, a 'trance' could be induced with drugs in a setting described by Orne [ Orne, M. T. Hypnotically induced hallucinations. A. A. A. S. symposium on hallucinations, December, 1958, in press.] as the 'magic room,' where a number of devices would be used to convince the subject that he is responding to suggestions. For instance, a concealed diathermy machine could warm up his hand just as he receives the suggestion that his hand is growing warmer. Or it might be suggested to him that when he wakes up a cigarette will taste bitter, it having been arranged that any cigarettes available to him would indeed have a slight but noticeably bitter taste. With ingenuity a large variety of suggestions can be made to come true by means unknown to the subject. Occasionally these manipulations would probably elicit some form of trance phenomenon, but the crucial thing would be the situation, not the incidental hypnotic state. The individual could legitimately renounce responsibility for divulging information much as if he had done it in delirium."

Brilliantly deceptive. Perhaps Deshere gives us a glimpse into what may be among the most effective, ingenious and paradoxical mirages of all: Developing legitimate mind control techniques were not as crucial to manipulating behavior as was leading the subject to believe the techniques were effective. Fascinating.

Did similar dynamics play out directly in the UFO arena and as suggested by Pilkington in his film? That seemingly certainly was the case. The questions become the extents and specific circumstances.
User IP Logged

The UFO Trail
Sysconfig
Guest
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #38 on: Jun 27th, 2014, 02:15am »

JJ I was looking at some old material whilst celebrating the drones and posting my own hidden message in Braille

I passed the Travis thread..and his story sounds credible because he is just an ordinary guy...somethin we identify with.

It sounded like someone slipped him some acid..of which There are all types...that can disable for days..Remember the movie Jacobs ladder..based on the CIA Army LSD tests.. and it dawned on me Streibers story in the woods..seemed similar the difference being that Streiber was not the ordinary guy he passed himself as..he had an early history of, as a child, talking about spacemen..and volunteered with the Greek Russian Quack and mystic Gurjeffs school..who taught exercises for getting et contact..
Whitleys journey is one of introspection..pointing to possible abuse and possible drugs as well..
And it dawned on me..would not the groups need a followup...to see if any had a flash back and recovered actual memories pointing to and actionable by the victims..
You would need also a structure to keep the myth of aliens abduction alive while hiding their misdeeds..

I found it interesting that Noories name popped up in reserve intelligence officers. second link...Gurdjeffs name also pops up in whitehouse and cia intrigue.. first link..
https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/cchrs-rima-laibow-md-involved-with-nsa-types-stuff-wtf.113877/page-2
http://www.afio.com/28_ican.htm


https://realitysandwich.com/142495/strange_case_whitley_strieber_1/

Both Noory and LMH also describe themselves as part of the Lightworkers. associated ith the Gurjeff school..
http://lightworkers.org/teacher/193679/george-gurdjieff

As noory and the others are involved with a childrens organization..It would make sense that is how a pool of subjects..can be gotten..not implying anything other than how these structures may be aligned..of course..not besmirching Noory's or anyones impeccable character.. cool

But it begs the question what happened to all the people.touches by mk ultra .as much of the records were destroyed..will their lives be alays in torment..think they have gone bat sht crazy..but they are not..

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28027244
"They were the most vulnerable women in the psychiatric system who came from a background of abuse and were left to be abused again within the system that was supposed to be protecting them."
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2014, 11:38pm by Sysconfig » User IP Logged

drwu23
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 6591
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #39 on: Jun 27th, 2014, 5:47pm »

Some minor corrections, it's spelled Gurdjieff and he was not a quack but more of a 'spiritual trickster who did indeed believe in his methods and teachings.
And as far as I know, and I have read extensively on the man, he never tried to call up any ET's.

for those interested in some background...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gurdjieff
User IP Logged

Sysconfig
Guest
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #40 on: Jun 27th, 2014, 9:56pm »

on Jun 27th, 2014, 5:47pm, drwu23 wrote:
Some minor corrections, it's spelled Gurdjieff and he was not a quack but more of a 'spiritual trickster who did indeed believe in his methods and teachings.
And as far as I know, and I have read extensively on the man, he never tried to call up any ET's.

for those interested in some background...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gurdjieff


I'll do you one better ..I'll give his real name and his picture
and he ..Ill be nice .I'll call him GG and show he can conjure an ET setting if it fits his need..
Then you can explain to us how his moonmatrix paradigm is not applicable as an et understanding all that has been discussed on other threads about the non nuts and bolts aspect of Ets to the multi dimensional aspect of et..which I am sure in his search for that external intelligence which ill evolves us from our machine zombie state..along with the nifty kundabuffers implanted into us..
How is is special substance that surrounds us that we rarely tap into any different than the Vril permeating the universe promoted by Nazi Ufo lovers or even Balavtsy's ether? Or others soul collectors on the moon..
They all believe their stuff..much like a drug merchant who tries his shtuff..succumbs to it..
I trying to see how deep the current high priests of ufology are connected to this school of thought and its connections to the UFO disinfo apparatus..




User Image
Youre free now GG Free..


G. I. Gurdjieff (1872?-1949)

George S. Georgiades was a Greco-Armenian charismatic spiritual leader who was born in Russia but who made a name for himself in Paris as the mystic George Ivanovitch Gurdjieff. In Russia, he established what he called "The Institute for the Harmonious Development of Man" (1919), which he re-established in France in 1922. It was at his Institute that Gurdjieff promoted a litany of hilarious occult and mystical notions about the universe, which he claimed he was taught by wise men while traveling and studying in Central Asia. He put down his "insights" in books with titles like Meetings with Remarkable men, All and Everything, and Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson: an objectively impartial criticism of the life of man. Gurdjieff's obscure musings were presented in more accessible language by his disciplePetyr Demianovich Ouspensky.

To some devotees of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky was an incomplete mystic. Other disciples find Gurdjieff and Ouspensky to be co-gurus. They have much to say about many things, including the moon:

The influence of the Moon upon everything living manifests itself in all that happens on Earth. Man can not tear himself free from the Moon. All his movements and consequently all his actions are controlled by the Moon. The mechanical part of our life is subject to the Moon.*

The moon at present feeds on organic life, on humanity. [In Search of the Miraculous]


What makes a guru such as Gurdjieff attractive as a spiritual conquistador is his seemingly shrewd observation that most human beings who are awake act as if they are asleep. Gurdjieff also observed that most people are dead on the inside. I think he meant by these claims that most people are passive sheep and need a guru to give their lives vitality and meaning. That is to say, I believe Gurdjieff correctly noted that most people are neither skeptics nor self-motivated, and that many are easily duped by gurus because they want someone to show them the way to live a meaningful life. He offered to show his followers the way to true wakefulness, a state of awareness and vitality which transcends ordinary consciousness. He was able to attract a coterie of writers, artists, wealthy widows and other questing souls to work his farm for him in exchange for sharing his wisdom. He offered numerous claims and explanations for everything under the moon, rooted in little more than his own imagination and never tempered with concern for what science might have to say about his musings.

Gurdjieff obviously had a powerful personality, but his disdain for the mundane and for natural science must have added to his attractiveness. He allegedly exuded extreme self-confidence and exhibited no self-doubt, traits which must have been comforting to many people. My favorite Gurdjieff story is told by Fritz Peters. To explain "the secret of life" to a wealthy English woman who had offered him £1,000 for such wisdom, Gurdjieff brought a prostitute to their table and told her he was from another planet. The food he was eating, he told her, was sent to him from his home planet at no small expense. He gave the prostitute some of the food and asked her what it tasted like. She told him it tasted like cherries. "That's the secret of life," Gurdjieff told the English lady. She called him a charlatan and left. Later that day, however, she gave him the money and became a devoted follower. He might have hit her with a stick like some Zen master and obtained the same result.

interesting comparison..I ran across

http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/gurdjieff.html
There are some differences (Sitchin [connected] our moon to Kingu, former satellite of Tiamat), but the collision, change in orbit, and downsizing of Earth, are in both his and Gurdjieff’s accounts. Also the mysterious second fragment blown off from Earth, referred to by Beelzebub as “Anulious” is similar to Sitchin’s “Hammered Bracelet” asteroid belt.

The ultimate message of Gurdjieff’s writing was wholly concerned with the end of enslavement and his entire life work was based on devising inner psycho-spiritual methods to overcome the effects of this “enslavement.” Sitchin was not concerned with such matters. Though the details of their cosmologies are different the similarity of the themes between the Gurdjieffian and Sitchinesque models of the history of the solar system makes one wonder about a common mythic-archetypal origin.

Sitchin’s work has been heavily discredited by scientists and many of his ideas are believed to be irreconcilable with the known laws of physics (though he himself often [denied] this). Gurdjieff’s work is accepted to be pure fiction, a spiritual allegory. When we discard the astrophysical elements of their respective models we’re left with the main common denominator that humanity is the pawn of an older race. That is an ancient theme echoed in many world mythologies, one that can be seen as a powerful metaphor for Gurdjieff’s central idea that in our present state we are incapable of doing because we are incapable of being. That is, we have no real free will, and are thus in effect controlled by forces around us. World myths tend to personify these forces as gods or aliens, but whether these gods or aliens exist is secondary to the main issue of our own unconsciousness and inner enslavement.

He certainly qualifies as a mirage man or a trixter ..and after that valuable lesson with a hooker..a quack...
I hope he had no effect or connection on Frank Zappa naming his daughter moonbeam..truth be told.. grin

Addendum.I answered my own question on the differences!
There is none..at the end of the day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Haushofer
.Louis Pauwels, in his book Monsieur Gurdjieff, describes Haushofer as a former student of George Gurdjieff. Others, including Pauwels, said that Haushofer created a Vril society; and that he was a secret member of the Thule Society.[1] Stefan Zweig speaks warmly of him [2] but says history will have to judge how far he knowingly contributed to Nazi doctrine as more documentation becomes available. Zweig credits him with the concept of Lebensraum, though used in a psychological sense of a nation's relative energies.

After the establishment of the Nazi regime, Haushofer remained friendly with Rudolf Hess, who protected Haushofer and his wife from the racial laws of the Nazis[citation needed], which deemed her a "half-Jew". During the pre-war years Haushofer was instrumental in linking Japan to the Axis powers, acting in accordance with the theories of his book Geopolitics of the Pacific Ocean.

After the July 20 Plot to assassinate Hitler, Haushofer's son Albrecht (1903–1945) went into hiding but was arrested on December 7, 1944 and put into the Moabit prison in Berlin. During the night of April 22–23, 1945, he and other selected prisoners like Klaus Bonhoeffer were walked out of the prison by an SS-squad and shot. From September 24, 1945, on, Karl Haushofer was informally interrogated by Father Edmund A. Walsh on behalf of the Allied forces to determine if he should stand trial at Nuremberg for war crimes. However, he was determined by Walsh not to have committed war crimes. On the night of March 10–11, 1946, he and his wife committed suicide in a secluded hollow on their Hartschimmelhof estate at Pähl/Ammersee. Both drank arsenic and the wife then hanged herself while Haushofer was obviously too weak to do so

awwww still great minds think alike.. cheesy
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2014, 11:47pm by Sysconfig » User IP Logged

drwu23
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 6591
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #41 on: Jun 28th, 2014, 1:06pm »

Gurdjieff was definitely a most unique fellow but like so many charismatic men his legacy and exploits have no doubt been embellished with inaccuracies and tales long after the fact.
I have read all of that and much more over the years and have several books written by the man himself including his Beelzubub trilogy and Remarkable Men, as well as several books by Ouspensky and JG Bennett, both students of G. Much of the stuff written by those who didn't know him personally is nonsense.
He did have some unusual occult and spiritual ideas , a blend of east and west, but those who knew him said he was a most remarkable man.
Those who came after and distorted his ideas, like Haushofer, for their own purposes are not relevant to G himself and his Fourth way Work.
Was he a charlatan..? Who can say? But there has been a long tradition of 'Spiritual Tricksters' over the years going back to the zen masters who often used such methods to teach their students .
Regarding ET connections , strictly speaking there aren't any. He did use the 'moon eating human souls' metaphor in his teachings about the man who was asleep but that was incorporated as part of his spiritual/occult beliefs and had nothing to do with aliens. I also suspect it was spiritual metaphor and that he did not literally believe this based on the reading I have done.
Still .....a most unusual man.

User IP Logged

Sysconfig
Guest
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #42 on: Jun 28th, 2014, 7:31pm »

Unusual yes ..not the usual..putting him in the context of his times pre wwii and the cold war intrigue during and after that followed and the connections between esoteric orders throughout Europe and their followers..we see that that he and also drank from the same well in Tibet..in search of the uber man..the hidden man the so I am not surprised.but still interesting in helping understand the involvement and manipulation by military in this area..and the mass psycho pathology as a result..Its much easier than I thought.as the article states..its much easier to introduce a forgery than it is to disprove one..Eco would agree..imo
I think you would enjoy..and probably have read it already..this link..
http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/Karl%20Haushofer%20Geo-Politics%20and%20the%20Occult%20Third%20Reich.htm


The Idea of the Mutation of Man
The reader will recall that the writer, Arthur Machen, we discovered was connected with an English society of Initiates, the Golden Dawn. This neo-pagan society, which had a distinguished membership, was an offshoot of the English Rosicrucian Society, founded by Wentworth Little in 1867. Little was in contact with the German Rosicrucians. He recruited his followers, to the number of 144, from the ranks of the higher-ranking Freemasons. One of his disciples was Bulwer Lytton.

Bulwer Lytton, a learned man of genius, celebrated throughout the world for his novel The Last Days of Pompeii, little thought that one of his books, in some ten years' time, would inspire a mystical pre-Nazi group in Germany. Yet in works like The Coming Race or Zanoni, he set out to emphasize the realities of the spiritual world, and more especially, the infernal world. He considered himself an Initiate. Through his romantic works of fiction he expressed the conviction that there are beings endowed with superhuman powers. These beings will supplant us and bring about a formidable mutation in the elect of the human race.

We must beware of this notion of a mutation. It crops up again with Hitler, and is not yet extinct today.

Hitler's aim was neither the founding of a race of supermen, nor the conquest of the world; these were only means towards the realization of the great work he dreamed of. His real aim was to perform an act of creation, a divine operation, the goal of a biological mutation which would result in an unprecedented exaltation of the human race and the "apparition of a new race of heroes and demigods and god-men." (Dr. Achille Delmas.) [perhaps these same neo-Nephilim Nazi "ubermen" are today clothed in the time and culture-appropriate sci-fi regalia of "alien"/human "hybrids" a la Whit Strieber, Harvard's Dr. John Mack, and a veritable cornucopia of other associated -- often Rockefeller-financed -- socio-cultural metaprogrammers. -B:.B:.]

We must also beware of the notion of the "Unknown Supermen." It is found in all the "black" mystical writings both in the West and in the East. Whether they live under the Earth or came from other planets, whether in the form of giants like those which are said to lie encased in cloth of gold in the crypts of Thibetan monasteries, or of shapeless and terrifying beings such as Lovecraft describes, do these "Unknown Supermen," evoked in pagan and Satanic rites, actually exist? When Machen speaks of the World of Evil, "full of caverns and crepuscular beings dwelling therein," he is referring, as an adept of the Golden Dawn, to that other world in which man comes into contact with the "Unknown Supermen." It seems certain that Hitler shared this belief, and even claimed to have been in touch with these "Supermen."



http://ahnen.greyfalcon.us/ahnen.html

Mud huts and stone axes

During World War II, Heinrich Himmler's obsessive search for the origins of the Aryan race led to crackpot archaeological digs in western and southern Russia, the trophies discovered being transported to the SS headquarters at Wewelsburg. The agents of the Ahnenerbe arrived in the wake of the Wehrmacht to ransack these regions for proof of their German origins.

Even Hitler became testy with Himmler's obsession, protesting: 'Why do we call the world's attention to the fact that we have no past? It isn't enough that Romans were erecting great buildings when our forefathers were living in mud huts. Now Himmler is starting to dig up the villages of mud huts, enthusing over every potsherd and stone axe he finds.'


grin
« Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2014, 8:03pm by Sysconfig » User IP Logged

drwu23
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 6591
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #43 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 12:55pm »

on Jun 28th, 2014, 7:31pm, Sysconfig wrote:
Unusual yes ..not the usual..putting him in the context of his times pre wwii and the cold war intrigue during and after that followed and the connections between esoteric orders throughout Europe and their followers..we see that that he and also drank from the same well in Tibet..in search of the uber man..the hidden man the so I am not surprised.but still interesting in helping understand the involvement and manipulation by military in this area..and the mass psycho pathology as a result..Its much easier than I thought.as the article states..its much easier to introduce a forgery than it is to disprove one..Eco would agree..imo
I think you would enjoy..and probably have read it already..this link..
http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/Karl%20Haushofer%20Geo-Politics%20and%20the%20Occult%20Third%20Reich.htm


The Idea of the Mutation of Man
The reader will recall that the writer, Arthur Machen, we discovered was connected with an English society of Initiates, the Golden Dawn. This neo-pagan society, which had a distinguished membership, was an offshoot of the English Rosicrucian Society, founded by Wentworth Little in 1867. Little was in contact with the German Rosicrucians. He recruited his followers, to the number of 144, from the ranks of the higher-ranking Freemasons. One of his disciples was Bulwer Lytton.

Bulwer Lytton, a learned man of genius, celebrated throughout the world for his novel The Last Days of Pompeii, little thought that one of his books, in some ten years' time, would inspire a mystical pre-Nazi group in Germany. Yet in works like The Coming Race or Zanoni, he set out to emphasize the realities of the spiritual world, and more especially, the infernal world. He considered himself an Initiate. Through his romantic works of fiction he expressed the conviction that there are beings endowed with superhuman powers. These beings will supplant us and bring about a formidable mutation in the elect of the human race.

We must beware of this notion of a mutation. It crops up again with Hitler, and is not yet extinct today.

Hitler's aim was neither the founding of a race of supermen, nor the conquest of the world; these were only means towards the realization of the great work he dreamed of. His real aim was to perform an act of creation, a divine operation, the goal of a biological mutation which would result in an unprecedented exaltation of the human race and the "apparition of a new race of heroes and demigods and god-men." (Dr. Achille Delmas.) [perhaps these same neo-Nephilim Nazi "ubermen" are today clothed in the time and culture-appropriate sci-fi regalia of "alien"/human "hybrids" a la Whit Strieber, Harvard's Dr. John Mack, and a veritable cornucopia of other associated -- often Rockefeller-financed -- socio-cultural metaprogrammers. -B:.B:.]

We must also beware of the notion of the "Unknown Supermen." It is found in all the "black" mystical writings both in the West and in the East. Whether they live under the Earth or came from other planets, whether in the form of giants like those which are said to lie encased in cloth of gold in the crypts of Thibetan monasteries, or of shapeless and terrifying beings such as Lovecraft describes, do these "Unknown Supermen," evoked in pagan and Satanic rites, actually exist? When Machen speaks of the World of Evil, "full of caverns and crepuscular beings dwelling therein," he is referring, as an adept of the Golden Dawn, to that other world in which man comes into contact with the "Unknown Supermen." It seems certain that Hitler shared this belief, and even claimed to have been in touch with these "Supermen."



http://ahnen.greyfalcon.us/ahnen.html

Mud huts and stone axes

During World War II, Heinrich Himmler's obsessive search for the origins of the Aryan race led to crackpot archaeological digs in western and southern Russia, the trophies discovered being transported to the SS headquarters at Wewelsburg. The agents of the Ahnenerbe arrived in the wake of the Wehrmacht to ransack these regions for proof of their German origins.

Even Hitler became testy with Himmler's obsession, protesting: 'Why do we call the world's attention to the fact that we have no past? It isn't enough that Romans were erecting great buildings when our forefathers were living in mud huts. Now Himmler is starting to dig up the villages of mud huts, enthusing over every potsherd and stone axe he finds.'


grin


Thanks for the link on the occult connection of the Nazis...I have read about it before and own a copy of The Spear of Destiny which goes into the players involved at that time regarding the occult origins of some of the Aryan ideas but that had some interesting tidbits.
I'm also familiar with the material in your actual post.

You might enjoy a book called 'The Morning of the Magicians' by Pauwells and Bergier and one of my all time favorite reads about esoteric matters over history called 'The Occult' by Colin Wilson ( a must read for anyone interested in the overall development of occult and esoteric ideas over time.)
Happy reading..... cool
User IP Logged

jjflash
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM


Posts: 1476
xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #44 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 2:00pm »

Thanks, guys. Lots of interesting stuff! I'll comment on:

on Jun 27th, 2014, 02:15am, Sysconfig wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28027244
"They were the most vulnerable women in the psychiatric system who came from a background of abuse and were left to be abused again within the system that was supposed to be protecting them."


A gentleman named Douglas Mesner has made several well researched posts about a legal case involving accusations of hypnosis-related abuse at the Castlewood Treatment Center in Missouri. The alleged primary perp, Mark Schwartz, appears to have had possible various motives for leading multiple women suffering from eating disorders to believe they were victims in supposedly amnesia-hidden and lifelong plots of extreme Satanic abuse. Mesner also wrote quite a bit on the infamous Satanic panic of the latter 20th century. Not surprisingly, he waded into UFO Land upon discovering many of the questionable and abusive dynamics in hypnotically retrieved accounts of alien abduction (such as in the cases of Emma Woods/David Jacobs and Leah Haley/John Carpenter) are very similar to the abuses such as apparently took place at Castlewood, other than the differences between the so-called alien or Satanic stalkers. Interesting stuff if anyone who is unfamiliar with it might choose to look it up sometime.

I think such considerations lead us back to how we went down such a road in the first place, and I think a large majority of people do not know - and the chains of events very much involved our Mirage Men. For example, while there are discrepancies in the accounts of exactly how the Hills ended up in the office of hypnotist Dr. Simon, it is reasonably clear that the decision was at least influenced by a talk they heard presented by USAF Captain Ben Swett on the topic of hypnosis and at a Unitarian Church.

Bearing that in mind, please consider a now declassified MKULTRA report (see The CIA and the Search for the Manchurian Candidate, Part One of Two for references and links) indicating an extensive exploration of trance states included conducting research at churches. Consider also, please, that the Hill's hypnotist, Simon, shared a former employer, Harvard, and then-current city of residence, Boston, with MKULTRA Subproject 84 (subject of which was hypnosis) lead researcher Dr. Martin Orne. I present for consideration that whether or not the Mirage Men were directly involved in the handling of the Hills, the cultures the CIA cultivated in such communities as academia, medical and military intelligence, contributed to the circumstances and even if indirectly.

See what I'm saying? Swett, Simon and their peers could be reasonably suspected to have been influenced by the Mirage Men - and not unlike any of the rest of us - even if not intentionally or directly. If that were not the case, the Hills might very well have never landed in the office of Simon and for the reasons they did.

But they did. And here the UFO community is, fifty years later, still arguing about the use of a tool that the Mirage Men themselves were finding at times more useful as a prop than an actual method of interrogation:

on Jun 21st, 2014, 3:20pm, jjflash wrote:
In the last post in this thread I referenced a now declassified CIA report composed by Edward F. Deshere and titled, Hypnosis in Interrogation. I'd like to consider the contents of that report a bit further, please, and particularly its apparent documentation of the activities of MKULTRA Subproject 84 lead researcher, Dr. Martin Orne. Deshere wrote:

"A captive's anxiety could be heightened, for example, by rumors that the interrogator possesses semi-magical techniques of extracting information. A group of collaborating captives could verify that interrogees lose all control over their actions, and so on. After such preliminary conditioning, a 'trance' could be induced with drugs in a setting described by Orne [ Orne, M. T. Hypnotically induced hallucinations. A. A. A. S. symposium on hallucinations, December, 1958, in press.] as the 'magic room,' where a number of devices would be used to convince the subject that he is responding to suggestions. For instance, a concealed diathermy machine could warm up his hand just as he receives the suggestion that his hand is growing warmer. Or it might be suggested to him that when he wakes up a cigarette will taste bitter, it having been arranged that any cigarettes available to him would indeed have a slight but noticeably bitter taste. With ingenuity a large variety of suggestions can be made to come true by means unknown to the subject. Occasionally these manipulations would probably elicit some form of trance phenomenon, but the crucial thing would be the situation, not the incidental hypnotic state. The individual could legitimately renounce responsibility for divulging information much as if he had done it in delirium."


Mirages indeed.
User IP Logged

The UFO Trail
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5  ...  16 Notify Send Topic Print
« Previous Topic | Next Topic »

Become a member of the UFO Casebook Forum today and join our more than 18,000 members.

Visit the UFO Casebook Web Site

Donate $6.99 for 50,000 Ad-Free Pageviews!

| |

This forum powered for FREE by Conforums ©
Sign up for your own Free Message Board today!
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Conforums Support | Parental Controls