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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Mirage Men  (Read 24637 times)
MOKSHA
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #45 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 3:18pm »



lipsrsealed
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #46 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 5:52pm »

on Jun 29th, 2014, 2:00pm, jjflash wrote:
Thanks, guys. Lots of interesting stuff! I'll comment on:



A gentleman named Douglas Mesner has made several well researched posts about a legal case involving accusations of hypnosis-related abuse at the Castlewood Treatment Center in Missouri. The alleged primary perp, Mark Schwartz, appears to have had possible various motives for leading multiple women suffering from eating disorders to believe they were victims in supposedly amnesia-hidden and lifelong plots of extreme Satanic abuse. Mesner also wrote quite a bit on the infamous Satanic panic of the latter 20th century. Not surprisingly, he waded into UFO Land upon discovering many of the questionable and abusive dynamics in hypnotically retrieved accounts of alien abduction (such as in the cases of Emma Woods/David Jacobs and Leah Haley/John Carpenter) are very similar to the abuses such as apparently took place at Castlewood, other than the differences between the so-called alien or Satanic stalkers. Interesting stuff if anyone who is unfamiliar with it might choose to look it up sometime.

I think such considerations lead us back to how we went down such a road in the first place, and I think a large majority of people do not know - and the chains of events very much involved our Mirage Men. For example, while there are discrepancies in the accounts of exactly how the Hills ended up in the office of hypnotist Dr. Simon, it is reasonably clear that the decision was at least influenced by a talk they heard presented by USAF Captain Ben Swett on the topic of hypnosis and at a Unitarian Church.

Bearing that in mind, please consider a now declassified MKULTRA report (see The CIA and the Search for the Manchurian Candidate, Part One of Two for references and links) indicating an extensive exploration of trance states included conducting research at churches. Consider also, please, that the Hill's hypnotist, Simon, shared a former employer, Harvard, and then-current city of residence, Boston, with MKULTRA Subproject 84 (subject of which was hypnosis) lead researcher Dr. Martin Orne. I present for consideration that whether or not the Mirage Men were directly involved in the handling of the Hills, the cultures the CIA cultivated in such communities as academia, medical and military intelligence, contributed to the circumstances and even if indirectly.

See what I'm saying? Swett, Simon and their peers could be reasonably suspected to have been influenced by the Mirage Men - and not unlike any of the rest of us - even if not intentionally or directly. If that were not the case, the Hills might very well have never landed in the office of Simon and for the reasons they did.

But they did. And here the UFO community is, fifty years later, still arguing about the use of a tool that the Mirage Men themselves were finding at times more useful as a prop than an actual method of interrogation:



Mirages indeed.


jj your post is somewhat vague.....are you saying that the Hills were manipulated by Dr Simon into believing that they were abducted ?
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #47 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 5:53pm »

on Jun 29th, 2014, 3:18pm, MOKSHA wrote:


lipsrsealed


Uhh...you want to explain the significance of that post...?

huh
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #48 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 6:13pm »

on Jun 29th, 2014, 5:53pm, drwu23 wrote:
Uhh...you want to explain the significance of that post...?

huh



NO not really,
do you ?
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #49 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 6:28pm »

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You all forgot us and the Master Of The Key!

I believe whitley as a follower of GG drummed these up from the same place the other accolytes of the same school drummed up theirs..and no accident we keep seeing associations introduced by EF into Hollow Earth,,Nazi secret weapons and even yes the drones
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creating a false background via unavailable witnesses and dates too far to vet..as in the 1992 association recently made....Luckily on The ted from alabama case I was familiar enough with library procedures to recognize the phony setup for a book that never was..
This does not help "ufology" it is trickery and dangerous..manufacturing events..to manipulate public perception. Its like the Scientologists go ahead and manufacture a past based on a dime novel Battleship Earh., as The Nazis raced to find artifacts to fit theirs..based on a novel as well.
Perhaps the ease by which it is done.and its utility..is why its done, especially during times of war and hegemonic competion such as east vs west.

here is in interesting story from the same link before..it does not involve spies and secret orders..
It was a strange adventure that brought Machen back to literature. It made his name famous in a few weeks, and the shock this gave him decided him to devote the rest of his life to writing.

He found journalism irksome, and no longer wanted to write for his own satisfaction. War had just broken out. There was a demand for "heroic" literature. This was hardly his line. The Evening News, however, asked him for a story. He wrote it straight off, but in his own individual style, calling it The Bowmen. The newspaper published this story on 29th September, 1914, the day after the retreat from Mons. Machen had imagined an incident in this battle: St. George in shining armour, at the head of his angels in the guise of the old archers of the battle of Agincourt, comes to the rescue of the British Army.

The next thing that happened was that scores of soldiers wrote into the newspaper to say that this Mr. Machen had invented nothing. They had seen with their own eyes on the Mons front the angels of St. George mingling in their ranks. This they could swear to on their honour. Many of these letters were published. England, anxious for a miracle in her hour of peril, was profoundly stirred. Machen had been hurt when no notice was taken of him when he had tried to reveal the secrets of reality. Now, with a cheap kind of fantasy, he had aroused the whole country. Or could it be that hidden forces rose up, in one form or another, summoned by his imagination that had so often been concerned with essential truths and was now, perhaps unconsciously, at work deep down within him? Dozens of times Machen insisted in the Press that his story was pure invention. No one ever believed it. Right up to his death, thirty years later, Machen, now an old man, often reverted in conversation to this fantastic story of the Angels of Mons.




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jjflash
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #50 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 7:44pm »

on Jun 29th, 2014, 5:52pm, drwu23 wrote:
jj your post is somewhat vague.....are you saying that the Hills were manipulated by Dr Simon into believing that they were abducted ?


Not necessarily. As far as the Hill case goes, I happen to be among those who think a covert chain of events is a reasonable suspicion, given the era and various extenuating circumstances, but I was trying to make a broader point.

I'm suggesting that Simon and Swett were likely to be influenced, even if indirectly, by the cultures of which they were members. More specifically... Orne was an MKULTRA hypnosis expert who conducted his research at Harvard and various locations in Boston, such as his own clinic. Simon was a Boston-based hypnosis practitioner and former Harvard employee. So I am suggesting it likely that the culture cultivated by the CIA, in which men such as Orne were delving into abstract applications of hypnosis, likely effected the way Simon viewed his psychology practice and hypnosis. I'm suggesting that whether or not the Agency was directly involved, the mindset it nurtured effected the mental health industry and public perception, contributing to the way the Hills were treated and the subsequent evolution of the legend.

Similarly, we know MKULTRA personnel conducted research at churches related to hypnosis and trance phenomena. Whether or not Captain Swett was one of the personnel, it seems a reasonable assumption that he was influenced by such procedures, else he may very well have never been carrying on at a Unitarian church when he met the Hills.

See what I'm saying? I think MKULTRA and its abstract thinking contributed to the reasons Swett, a member of the Air Force, would have ever been at a church talking to people whispering about missing time or whatever. I'm suggesting that men such as Swett and Simon were influenced by their surroundings and cultures, not unlike any of the rest of us, and as might be considered the case with the commercial MOKSHA posted - and that, ultimately, Mirage Men were a significant part of where the influence originated. In some cases it may have been intentional, and in some cases much less so, but, either way, their digging around in esoteric possibilities shifted the mindsets of entire industries in the process.

@Sys_Config:

Looks like a prime example of how an idea influences what people want to believe they perceived. It looks pretty clear to me that such techniques have been used successfully for a long time by all kinds of aspects of society in addition to the intelligence community. Thanks.
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #51 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 10:01pm »

on Jun 29th, 2014, 6:13pm, MOKSHA wrote:
NO not really,
do you ?


Heh.....it's your craziness,,, not mine.

kiss
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #52 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 10:01pm »


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10932534/Facebook-conducted-secret-psychology-experiment-on-users-emotions.html

Push the right button and leave on autopilot. Return for maintenance insert the right picture of blurs or streaming tears from children on video..and voila you can work that crowd up real good.

600 k lab rats is quite an accomplishment.

It aptly describes prime time
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #53 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 10:04pm »

on Jun 29th, 2014, 7:44pm, jjflash wrote:
Not necessarily. As far as the Hill case goes, I happen to be among those who think a covert chain of events is a reasonable suspicion, given the era and various extenuating circumstances, but I was trying to make a broader point.

I'm suggesting that Simon and Swett were likely to be influenced, even if indirectly, by the cultures of which they were members. More specifically... Orne was an MKULTRA hypnosis expert who conducted his research at Harvard and various locations in Boston, such as his own clinic. Simon was a Boston-based hypnosis practitioner and former Harvard employee. So I am suggesting it likely that the culture cultivated by the CIA, in which men such as Orne were delving into abstract applications of hypnosis, likely effected the way Simon viewed his psychology practice and hypnosis. I'm suggesting that whether or not the Agency was directly involved, the mindset it nurtured effected the mental health industry and public perception, contributing to the way the Hills were treated and the subsequent evolution of the legend.

Similarly, we know MKULTRA personnel conducted research at churches related to hypnosis and trance phenomena. Whether or not Captain Swett was one of the personnel, it seems a reasonable assumption that he was influenced by such procedures, else he may very well have never been carrying on at a Unitarian church when he met the Hills.

See what I'm saying? I think MKULTRA and its abstract thinking contributed to the reasons Swett, a member of the Air Force, would have ever been at a church talking to people whispering about missing time or whatever. I'm suggesting that men such as Swett and Simon were influenced by their surroundings and cultures, not unlike any of the rest of us, and as might be considered the case with the commercial MOKSHA posted - and that, ultimately, Mirage Men were a significant part of where the influence originated. In some cases it may have been intentional, and in some cases much less so, but, either way, their digging around in esoteric possibilities shifted the mindsets of entire industries in the process.
.


I understand what you are getting at but that doesn't answer the question of what really happened to the Hills.
What chain of events can you postulate from this?
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #54 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 10:32pm »

on Jun 29th, 2014, 10:01pm, Sysconfig wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10932534/Facebook-conducted-secret-psychology-experiment-on-users-emotions.html

Push the right button and leave on autopilot. Return for maintenance insert the right picture of blurs or streaming tears from children on video..and voila you can work that crowd up real good.

600 k lab rats is quite an accomplishment.

It aptly describes prime time


A few of us were considering this earlier on Twitter. Any number of ethical considerations could be voiced concerning proper protocol involving human research subjects. Perhaps equally concerning as the ethics, though, is the public apathy. We have become a public desensitized to a loss of privacy, a consistent stream of lies that insult intelligence, and a lack of accountability from the very agencies charged with protecting our national interests and security. But look at the bright side: we can Facebook.
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #55 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 10:56pm »

on Jun 29th, 2014, 10:04pm, drwu23 wrote:
I understand what you are getting at but that doesn't answer the question of what really happened to the Hills.
What chain of events can you postulate from this?


Well, Doc, I could of course only speculate about Betty and Barney. What I was trying to express I found interesting was the apparent extents that CIA-funded researchers such as Orne influenced paradigm shifts that continue to be felt today. Others employed and/or consulted included Wolff at Cornell, West at UCLA, NY psychologist Kline and Cameron of the infamous op in Montreal, which, interestingly enough, was the destination of the Hills during their fateful journey. These men were not members of a rogue fringe, but respected leaders in their industries. Cameron served as president of both the Canadian and American Psychiatric Associations, among other prestigious positions.

But about what happened to the Hills, I suppose we could break that down and consider it in detail if you and/or others would like, drwu23. What do you think happened?

How about anyone else? What do you think happened to the Hills?
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #56 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 11:13pm »

http://www.philipcoppens.com/ufo_ciapipers.html
Today, Adamski is seen as a con-man, Menger as a man who copied a con-man and whom during one television interview admitted as much. Yet once again, the situation is not as simple as it seems, because solid evidence exists that at least these two individuals were acting as part of an intelligence-backed operation.
Apart from admitting he jumped on Adamski’s bandwagon, in the 1960s, Menger also admitted that he had worked for the CIA, and that his story was part of an experiment to test public reactions to the idea of extraterrestrial contact. In short, Menger’s story was a CIA experiment to see how easily and whom specifically could be fooled into believing anything.
More significantly, it is now known that Adamski was the same: he was not only encouraged in his work, but actively supported and assisted, by the CIA. This became known – though not widely reported when scientists attempting to investigate Adamski's claims (in an effort to discredit him and stop him in his tracks) were warned off by CIA Director Allen Dulles in person. And research has shown that during tours of Europe and Australia to promote his “message”, Adamski travelled on a passport furnished by the CIA. During a 1953 speech, Adamski even calmed an anxious crowd by assuring the audience that the CIA and the FBI had cleared his statements! Interestingly, long before this information became public, Leon Davidson had already stated that Adamski was controlled by the CIA.

There is evidence that other early contactees and the groups that gathered around them were being controlled and manipulated by outside agencies. For example, one such group in Michigan, formed around a woman, Marian Keech, who claimed that she was in telepathic contact with aliens from the planet Clarion. A team of psychologists and sociologists infiltrated the movement after Keech proclaimed that the aliens informed here than in three months’ time, the world would be destroyed by a great flood. The aliens from Clarion would come to rescue her and those close to her. The group that formed around her quit their jobs, gave away their money, houses and possessions and withdrew from their friends. A few even left their spouses. It was then that the movement was infiltrated, for they wanted to study the group dynamics, including what would happen “when prophecies failed” – which as we know did. Remarkably, though the flood did not happen, Keech received an alien message that said that there was no longer any need for the flying saucers to descend, as the world had been spared because of the unflagging faith of this small group of believers. The message went on to say that the little group, sitting all night long, had spread so much light that the God of the Earth had decided to save the world from destruction.
What the group did next caused the social psychologists to become elated. Within 24 hours, the true believers - this group of quiet, reclusive, shy people that previously had shunned any type of publicity and had made no drive to gather more followers - began calling newspapers and TV stations to talk about their prophecy and why it had failed. They made speeches and stood on street corners handing out leaflets trying very hard to attract followers. The psychologists noted that from exiled believers, a failed prophecy had made them into religious zealots.

The idea that contactees such as Adamski should have been spreading their message with the blessing – and backing – of the CIA seems, at first, bizarre. However, when we consider the very real benefits for psychological warfare purposes of setting up and monitoring such experiments into the way that cult beliefs spread, and the influence that they have over certain segments of the population, the motive becomes apparent.
Still, the claims of the contactees adhered to a very specific format: individuals who make extremely unlikely claims and whom we have to believe, or not, as telling the truth. Since the 1950s, the contactee stories have largely been substituted with the “abductee” stories, which are far more subtle. In short, rather than a person making a personal claim, it is now an “expert” who claims to have made a detailed study of someone, and finds that this person is genuine and has indeed been abducted – often against his own will and normally even without his knowledge – by alien beings, for unknown purposes. Whereas Dulles had to personally intervene when people began to question the likes of Adamski, trying to get him to admit or prove his hoax in court, the introduction of the abductee scenario has annihilated this type of dissection and possible discreditation of the abductees, their stories and the movement.

Betty & Barney Hill

The first case in which the major parts of the abductee pattern appeared took place in 1961. This was the seminal “close encounter of the fourth kind” of Betty and Barney Hill, who claimed to have been abducted and taken aboard an alien spaceship during a lonely drive through New Hampshire in September of that year. The Hill’s case involved the ingredients that would become the key identifiers of the abductee scenario: missing time (the abductees cannot account for the period of the encounter); memory loss or erasure (the abductees remember nothing beyond the initial UFO sighting, although memories of the experience are released later through hypnotic regression, implying an attempt by the aliens to block the memory); an intrusive medical examination focussing on the reproductive organs; and the large, slanting eyes of the alien captors.
Whereas Adamski and Menger were used if not paid by the CIA for their claims, the Hills have always been above any such suspicion; they were, like most of the other abductees, model US citizens. However, the circumstances surrounding the Hills' experience reveal a very sinister story. It is clear that the Hills were being monitored by USAF Intelligence before the encounter took place, through Major James MacDonald, who had befriended them some time earlier. Betty Hill wrote to Donald Keyhoe who, despite the fact that he received over a hundred letters a day, homed in on this initially unremarkable case. (At that stage, the Hills remembered only the UFO sighting, not the abduction.) Within 24 hours, Keyhoe had arranged for the Hills to be visited by top-level scientists, including C.D. Jackson, who had previously (definitely not coincidentally) worked on psychological warfare techniques for President Eisenhower. Stretching coincidence far beyond breaking point, Jackson already knew Major MacDonald, with whom he next interviewed the Hills.
Most importantly, it was Jackson who drew the Hills' attention to their missing time period; until he did so, the couple had not realised that their memories of that fateful night were incomplete. It was Jackson who suggested hypnotic regression as a means of unlocking it. It was Jackson who then arranged for one of the Army's top psychiatric experts to undertake the regression (as if a civilian expert was not available?), under which the full story of the joint abduction “emerged”. However, as many researchers have since demonstrated, a careful review of the timings actually shows that there was no missing time at all.

It seems that Betty and Barney Hill were at the centre of a web that involved USAF Intelligence and top military experts in psychological warfare. The evidence suggests that the Hills were the subjects – victims – of a psychological experiment. This may seem a tall claim, but the evidence that defence and intelligence agencies undertook such experiments – in other contexts – on unknowing and innocent subjects in the 1950s and 60s is now overwhelming. In particular, the exposure of the CIA's notorious MKULTRA project into various mind control techniques caused a major scandal in the 1970s.
It is a disturbing thought that the Hills may have been selected for the experiment because they were – unusually for that time – a mixed-race couple, who were furthermore active in the civil rights movement. In short, they were ideal candidates to be “practiced upon”, for they were part of a target group. Only the Hills are able to state what impact their abduction story and subsequent UFO fame had on them, specifically whether they were able to devote any or as rigorous time to their civil right activities or whether the claims made about them regarding these abductions caused their reputation as civil right activists any harm. No doubt, trying to answer the latter question must have been part of the psychological experiment that was practiced upon this couple.

Whatever the motive behind the Hill’s experience, the most significant aspect is that the pattern established by that event has, since the late 1970s, been seen more and more frequently. If anything, the abductee scenario has become a major part of the manipulation of public belief concerning UFOs and extraterrestrials. Over a period of several decades, it mushroomed into the Linda Napolitano abduction story, which can easily be seen as an attempt to see whether using stories of alien abductions could discredit the reputation of the UN Secretary General Javier Perez de Cuellar… or, alternatively, whether de Cuellar could use UFO abductions as a smokescreen to cover up extra-marital activities?

[b]It is known that the CIA was involved with mind control, psychological warfare and the study of hypnosis in the 1960s. Despite claims during Congressional hearings that the work had little success and had ceased, that claim itself was contradicted when it was learned that the Remote Viewing experiment had gone on well into the 1990s. Furthermore, CIA employee Miles Copeland stated that the CIA was successful in minimising the scope of the Congressional enquiry (they “got only the barest glimpse”) and Victor Marchetti has separately claimed that the mind control research continued post the Congressional hearings.
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #57 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 11:29pm »

Dang that was a nice link I must say so myself.
My hope is that one day some of the abductees by whoever side get exposed and sued in court..because you sure can't sue an alien

My favorite curiosity was:
pink powder. When this was shaken off it left pink stains behind. She also found the hem and seams torn. The patterned, purple dress has been kept in her closet and over the years she cut sections off it to satisfy the requests of laboratories throughout the world. (7) So far no one has provided any evidence that it is of exceptional, let alone extraterrestrial origin.

Even weirder Betty claimed that six to eight weeks after their encounter they returned home to find a pile of leaves on their kitchen table. They had just been back to the mountains searching for the location of their encounter to see if it triggered any memories. When cleaning up the mess she found the blue ear rings she had been wearing the night of the encounter. She quite reasonably wondered how she lost them and how they got in their home. What this indicated to her was that the aliens had stolen her ear rings and they knew where they lived. (8)

So the aliens knew where they lived..The AF confirmed a slight incident at same time..214am..on radar..they controlled the hyno session. over a year or so later...the inserted themselves with Barney not long before the event..I dont think Keyhoe was like pals for years..
and yeah what do intergalactic aliens need a star map for,,,do they fly visually like in a cessna piper? I mean after all If they are telepathic and stuff..and extra smart..they need and read books too!
just sayin ya know? grin

sayyyy..don't Ruskis and Chinese have slanted eyes too?
now one of the decriptions that changed was a hooked shnozola..so Italian and Jewish or lebanese out of the question.

imho..orchestrated ..they could also have been gassed by something in the trunk that was set off remotely..
but even without that or their cooperation....it appears setup.


from above link

Noting what transpired with the Hills and Napolitano, we should note what George Estabrooks, a seminal theorist on the use of hypnosis in warfare, and a veteran of Project MKULTRA, accomplished when during a party, he covertly hypnotised two friends, who were then led to believe that the English Prime Minister had just arrived at the party; Estabrooks' victims spent an hour conversing with, and even serving drinks to, the esteemed and imaginary visitor. Cannon asks: “for ufologists, this incident raises an inescapable question: If the Mesmeric arts can successfully evoke a non-existent Prime Minister, why can't a representative from the Pleiades be similarly induced?”
Cannon even goes as far as to suggest that the UFO abductee mythology might have been invented as a cover story for what to do with those people who had been used during mind control experiments: rather than have them remember their real torture, fill their mind with UFO abduction stories. At present, the Hill case definitely seems to be a psychological warfare experiment, not a cover story. Though Cannon’s theory is possible, at present, there is no hard evidence for it… but then a decade long preparation, that would involve Adamski, Menger and the Hills would have laid the foundation to make sure that hard evidence would never be uncovered.
If Cannon is right, it would give a totally different meaning to the so-called alien implants that go hand in hand with the abductee scenario, noting that in some cases, the existence of such implants has been proven as genuine and have been surgically or otherwise removed from people’s bodies. The central question is whether they are alien-, or human-made. And whatever the answer to that question is, will also answer of what origin the contactee and abductee scenario is.
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #58 on: Jun 30th, 2014, 12:34am »

I was thinking along similar lines as in the Travis case and even my own SYS only I see two games being played out, one is military abduction and one is ET .now the military abductions are easy to explain why as you could have seen something you shouldn’t have seen or gain test results from such as chem. Spraying or it could be that they know who is being abducted and tested on by ET and they are gathering information by use of drugs etc building a data base of victims and reasons.
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xx Re: Mirage Men
« Reply #59 on: Jun 30th, 2014, 01:17am »

on Jun 30th, 2014, 12:34am, hyundisonata wrote:
I was thinking along similar lines as in the Travis case and even my own SYS only I see two games being played out, one is military abduction and one is ET .now the military abductions are easy to explain why as you could have seen something you shouldn’t have seen or gain test results from such as chem. Spraying or it could be that they know who is being abducted and tested on by ET and they are gathering information by use of drugs etc building a data base of victims and reasons.


No doubt you have a scar...may not be flesh but a scar you will carry a long time..llike getting mugged in an alley...never see their faces..they cut you..and take off..could have been worse..maybe HY they were interrupted.. it sounds like they were..you checked yourself went to doctors and stuff..and they couldnt find anything..if it was a flesh cut they can stitch you ..this will have to heal..and you will be more alert the next time..I doubt they will be back for you...because you didnt return to our normal zombie state..that allows them the element surprise..
That means they can't really use you now..you didnt break down or turn into a raving lunatic..or lock yourself up in the house..
They may as well as kidnapped a shaolin monk..
anyway..thats just my thought bro
I'm crashin
cya soon
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