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 sticky  Author  Topic: FACT OR THEORY?  (Read 12230 times)
GForce
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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #11 on: Apr 11th, 2007, 3:07pm »

Forums/Message boards are great for meeting like minded people and exchanging thoughts and ideas. That includes opinions and theories. Some message boards however are complete chaos. Where members are allowed to make personal attacks based on one anothers beliefs. While I have visited such sites I refuse to join or take part in their verbal sparring. Too old for it!

What I look for in a forum is intelligent debate. Through debate you may learn things or see things through a different light. In a way you've never thought possible. To do that you have to have an open mind. Even when I disagree with someones opinion I try to understand it. I'm not ignorant enough to believe I know everything. I'm smart enough to know I don't. rolleyes

Since ATO has explained Fact vs Theory vs Fiction and done a great job at not only explaining it but confusing me as well. I will only add that the reason I'm here is to search for not only the truth, but to have greater understanding on the topics at hand. To meet like minded people and learn from their experiences. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't want nor need groupies who think I'm an intellictual God and know everything here. Well.... maybe....naw. I have 4 dogs who think I'm god and a wonderful lady at home who pretends I am. I think I've just perfected chee. Uh oh I hope I spelled chee right. The Watcher is watching!
« Last Edit: Apr 11th, 2007, 3:11pm by GForce » User IP Logged

oljack666
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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #12 on: Apr 11th, 2007, 4:46pm »

In continuing from the top......

Many people say that they believe my stories and experiences during abduction and being a contactee. They can't actually. It's virtually impossible to truly believe anything until one has experienced the same thing. They can only say, I'll try to believe. Other abductees and contactees can believe and they do but they've also had their own personal experience, which was the same but different. As well, people such as Bud Hopkins have tremendous conviction because of their personal experiences with abductees so they can as well say the words, "I believe" due to their observations.

Actually, I have to take that back a little bit because to know me on a personal level, one would or could believe but that's hard to pull off on the Internet.

Nobody said anything about censorship. It's more a case of showing less conviction. Too much conviction on every subject shows me things I don't want to see. It's hard to define what I just said so I won't but I pass on reading many articles when conviction is always present. Maybe it reminds me of India Daily or a similar Internet rag publication that sells ideas as facts and not theory.

When I read what people have to say on certain subjects I do one thing first. I sit and dwell on what millions will be thinking when they read it if that time ever comes and ET knocks on our door.

If and when this happens, there are no government websites for them to visit while they sit in wonder what ET's next move is. The only thing there is, are websites such as ours, which would make us responsible for the content about aliens and UFOs.

Some of the information on the Internet is totally wack and I mean way out there. This is why it is best to stay within the area of theory and use words such as "I think", "possibly", or "maybe" instead of showing a conviction that states something like, "I know for an absolute fact that this is true because I have documentation on such or so and so."

There is not a single stitch of documentation of any kind about aliens or UFO's that isn't theory except for personal observation by the observer and then it is only fact for the observer and not anyone else. I do not mean personal observation of documentation either but rather the personal observation of the actual incident be it a UFO or an abduction.

In other words, if you saw a UFO and you knew for an absolute fact that it was an actual UFO (the alien kind), then it is a fact for yourself, however it will remain a theory for everyone else. That's just the way it is. One can try to believe and some even do try to believe but they can't honestly because they did not see it themselves. A person that will believe is one that also saw a UFO firsthand and knows it is very possible. They will be the exception.

If everyone believed everything they read about UFO's and aliens there would be major excitement going on all over the UFO and alien websites - but there isn't because they have had no such observations.
« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2007, 05:52am by oljack666 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #13 on: Apr 12th, 2007, 10:28am »

DrkDrgn if you see a document that you believe is true, then you can accept it as fact. But if you post what's in it without the document then it becomes hear-say. Some may accept you at your word, others may not. I tend to always say: It's my belief or its my opinion. In other words I couch my statements so the members will know this is only my opinion, my beliefs and has no factual merit. I will admit I'm a bit of a skeptic especially when someone wants you to believe they have inside knowledge. I like to see their proof. I'll even settle for a link. Then I make up my own mind.

I like to think a great forum allows you to post in 3D. Debate, Discussion, Disagreement! Nothing is wrong with any of the three. You run into trouble when bitter, mean spirited arguments breakout. I stop posting in a thread when it becomes apparent a member is ignorant or narcissistic. Y rolleyesu can't debate with them. So I don't.
« Last Edit: Apr 12th, 2007, 12:59pm by GForce » User IP Logged

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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #14 on: Apr 12th, 2007, 1:09pm »

DrkDrgn sometimes ignorance is bliss! I've never seen a UFO nor have I ever been abducted. So in an ignorant way I've been blessed. That said, I'm still stupid enough to hope I will someday either see or make contact with ET.

However I will admit I believe most of the stories here of those who have been abducted. And most of their stories are not pleasant. But if a UFO landed on my front yard I would be dumb enough to approach it and offer the alien dudes a beer. What could it hurt? grinDan
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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #15 on: Apr 12th, 2007, 7:01pm »

Gee folks, I never meant that I didn't want to be told that an event or sighting took place, with or without 'proof'. I place as much faith in one sighting as the next, and do not discount anyones word of an event. And the more information that comes in and is shared, the better for all.

I think what some of us find annoying is the type of dialog where the poster not only tells you of his/her experience, but then orders you to "understand" it the same way that they did. I am vexed when someone adds personal ideology to information.

If you were a police officer investigating a car crash and I were the witness, you would find it most helpful to reconstructing the accident if I kept my statements based on what I saw or noticed during the incident. You would most likely be irritated if I went on to tell you how an angel had told me to stand on that corner so I would be there to inform the police that the reason for all these accidents was rampant Satanism in America.

and if i fuled oot tha wtniss statmen from lik a dim idjit wit no idear af how ta writ yu wood be ticd offbutt ats ok cuz yu jestdotno how speshul iam and how i culd hav salved everboodi if theyd jest listen butt noone ever licks me anywa

I must stop this here, I smell something burning. I'm pretty sure my spell check is getting hot. smiley
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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #16 on: Oct 16th, 2007, 02:16am »

Dear Oljack666,

"An individual who intentionally lies (especially about themselves) usually does so since there is a actual feeling of grandure that one feels when acting out the lie. It's actually a high for many individuals. It's like their drug. These are the "I've done that", "I've been this", "I know this person", "I know that person", "I'm all this and I'm all that", etc., and the Internet is full of them. It's simply narcissism and here are the symptoms.

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by other special people
4. requires excessive admiration strong sense of entitlement
5. takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
6. lacks empathy
7. is often envious or believes others are envious of him or her
8. arrogant affect

The sad thing here is that they are the way they are (usually always) because of the actions of others. In most cases you'll find a tremendous lack of self-esteem and self-worth that was instilled by a set of parents who shouldn't have been parents. Many times it's created by siblings and teachers and even through molestation and the like. It's very repairable and requires maybe one visit to a psychiatrist who simply shows the individual how they got that way and shows them that it wasn't their fault and to catch themselves when they begin to fabricate a new lie and eventually it will all go away. Essentially, the psychiatrist is diagnosing their problem and describing it to them in a fashion that they can now understand. The part that remains unrepairable is the low self-esteem and low self-worth. That takes certainly more then one visit to repair, if ever.

Unfortunately, too many lies are being told in respect to UFO's, aliens and the government for all those reasons. When we have too many lies flying around the Internet, it hurts our trek because more then anything it's simply a lack of knowledge and ends up as a conspiracy theory. Once it's a conspiracy theory and one entrenches themself in it, it grows rapidly through forums and websites. When something gets big, it gets a lot of attention. Then the cycle continues and the size of the circle within that cycle is greater.


It appears, according to your information that the above quoted would apply to me. As sad as it is- I agree with you on several levels- and disagree with you many more levels greater (narcissistic grandiosity- yet again).

I am not running around lying and killing people and animals. I am not judging people and incarcerating them. I am not trying to rule the world by force and deception.

I would rather be this screwed up mental defective narcissistic jagoff then someone educated- like you.

Please refrain from feeling sorry for the likes of me- I feel fine.

My screwed up childhood has not changed the fact of how bad things are or how bad they are going to get. In fact, everything thing going on in the world has nothing to do with me. My perception is no different than a healthy nurtured person's.

The entire world is in trouble and it is not my (seemingly) mentally challenged perception! IT'S FACT.

Care to comment on my comment?
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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #17 on: Dec 11th, 2007, 12:27pm »

Hi GFORCE,

I just found this thread, from months ago. I just wanted to say that I certainly appreciate the posts from GFORCE (and many others). I'm a bit new here , but IMO you have some exceptionally nice and intelligent members.

Thanks for a brilliant site, folks.

Richard
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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #18 on: Dec 11th, 2007, 6:03pm »

You are one of those intelligent members Richard and we are happy to have you here.
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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #19 on: Aug 21st, 2008, 7:49pm »

Quote:
That's just it, but why should we be forced to sift through all of the lies that sit out and about in the UFO/alien oriented websites.


Forced?

Is that Fact or Theory? laugh


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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #20 on: Aug 21st, 2008, 9:30pm »

Slow down guys, this is a heavy post that is extremely clinical, put down the scalpels please. If I had read a post such as this one when I first started my search over a year ago I would have run for the hills lol, you have to remember that there are people like me who had no interest in ufo ect until something turned their world upside down that set them on a quest to obtain answers to what they had witnessed or had done to them. Yes you get a large percentage of B/S on the web that can be frustrating at times but sometimes out of the B/S rises the phoenix , for instance I was reading a story today that led me to a web page about car tires where I learnt about tire dates and the recommended shelf life of a tire and it scared me to think that what I thought was a good tire was really an instrument of death, the point is that if I had not trolled the B/S then I would still be ignorant to the facts I learned about tires that may someday save myself or my children’s lives. Disbelief or belief its all down to the readers choice at the time of reading so please do not dissect before it is written.
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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #21 on: Sep 11th, 2008, 7:47pm »

A fact is only a fact until it is proved wrong.
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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #22 on: Sep 21st, 2008, 3:58pm »

on Mar 5th, 2007, 9:16pm, toxo1 wrote:
people get confused with facts and theory. There are a lot of theories. All UFO info is just theories until we have one to study. Until then ALL is theory.....


This is only partially true. Those with abduction experiences alone hold solid facts. Now the fact is that these facts are not fact for anyone but the abductee and only if the abductee is indeed telling the truth. Some of these experiences have evidence (such as radiation poisoning and scorched earth etc.) which strongly support the claims. This evidence helps solidify the fact that these experiences are plausible. But remember theory is always theory until it is proven through experience and experiment. Confused?
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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #23 on: Sep 22nd, 2008, 10:21am »

on Mar 5th, 2007, 9:16pm, toxo1 wrote:
people get confused with facts and theory. There are a lot of theories. All UFO info is just theories until we have one to study. Until then ALL is theory.....


Let us not forget that the very word theory (and its definition) are human constructs. The scientific method says you must prove a theory in order for it to stand as truth. Science is another human construct. It doesn't necessarily have any bearing on reality or truth.
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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #24 on: Sep 24th, 2008, 12:14am »

This is true. There are many things that are still in the theoretical realm, but yet to be proven. A perfect example is:

Where do UFOs come from? At this time, an answer to this question would be strictly theoretical.
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xx Re: FACT OR THEORY?
« Reply #25 on: Oct 20th, 2008, 11:29pm »

I'm new here and its good to see people with insightful posts. I usually expect the mixture of moonbeams, crystals and religion.
On the issue of facts or theories, I will throw out something. There are tens of thousands of photos and videos of UFOs and new ones every day. Do UFOs exist? I would say this is a fact since only one of these has to be real (a high certainty) for this to be a fact.

Are they alien? Less certainty but highly probable. The reason is that they have exhibited behavior that is orders of magnitude greater than technology we would expect humans to have (both past and present). Even our military can't jump in technology like that. We can't have jet fighters that go 1500mph then jump to 15,000 mph the next year or even ten years. Rockets are different.

I consider something a fact when there is high probability that the theory fits and high certainty based on evidence. As an example, lets say that 1000 people have used Windows with no problems (mostly at Microsoft, I suppose) then the 1001st person clicks it the right way and the computer locks up. Would you say it is is theory only that there is a bug in Windows (possibly on the first report)? If is true that the correct clicks can lock up the computer and this can happen on different computers (video and still cameras for UFOs) then I would take it as fact. Absolute proof can come later.

For UFOs we need to have only one real bit of evidence to be right and they can't all be fake.
Well, just MO.
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