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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #150 on: Jul 4th, 2012, 4:36pm »

Zetar, I highly doubt our government was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. But there was obviously a security issue which I see as obvious. The attacks took place on the only day ever where NORAD computers had been reset for a special exercise which only searched outside our borders. If that's a coincidence, it's a grandpappy. I'm thinking inside information did exist.

« Last Edit: Jul 4th, 2012, 7:32pm by LoneGunMan » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #151 on: Jul 4th, 2012, 5:23pm »

ICEPICK,

YOU KNOW I RESPECT YOUR OPINION AND MY POST DIDN'T SAY OUR GOVERNMENT PULLED THIS OFF.
I LIKENED WHAT HAPPENED BACK TO PEARL HARBOR.
POLITICALLY CONGRESS WAS NOT GOING TO DECLARE WAR AS THE PRESIDENT SO DESIRED...MANY SCHOLARS BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAD VAST INTELLIGENCE THAT AN ATTACK WAS IMMINENT AND MERELY LET THIS HAPPEN SO CONGRESS WAS NOT AN IMPEDIMENT TO GO TO WAR...BY ALLOWING AN ATTACK CONGRESS.WAS IMMEDIATELY BYPASSED.
PRIOR TO THE 9/11 INCIDENT...DOES ANYONE THINK THE PATRIOT ACT HAD A CHANCE OF PASSING CONGRESS THUS ESSENTIALLY HAVING A CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION AND STRIKING A NUMBER OF CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS...WITH THAT ONE INCIDENT...LEGISLATION FLEW THROUGH BOTH HOUSES AS ALL SALUTED AS OUR RIGHTS WERE STRIPPED AWAY.
WHY WOULD CHENY WAIT TO GIVE ORDERS TO BRING THOSE.PLANES DOWN WHEN HE HAD PLENY OF ADVANCED NOTICE...WOULD LIVES HAD BEEN SAVED?
MOREOVER,WHY WERE SAID PLANES SENT OUT TO SEA WHEN THE MILITARY AND FAA HAD CONFIRMED CONTACT LANDSIDE...

WHEN ONE ACTUALLY LOOKS AT ITEM AFTER ITEM...A DIFFERENT PICTURE EMERGES FROM THAT WHICH WAS PAINTED BY THE 9/11 COMMISSION...
I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ONE TO GIVE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT...BUT IN THIS CASE IT APPEARS THE DOUBT LED TO VAST BENEFITS TO SOMEONE...THAT LIST IS LONG!!!

SHALOM...ZETAR
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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #152 on: Jul 4th, 2012, 7:33pm »

on Jul 4th, 2012, 4:36pm, icepick wrote:
Zetar, I highly doubt our government was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. But there was obviously a security issue which I see as obvious. The attacks took place on the only day ever where NORAD computers had been reset for a special exercise which only searched outside our borders. If that's a coincidence, it's a grandpappy. I'm thinking inside information did exist.



Tim

Norad had suffered from the Jamie Gorlick memo about stopping the sharing of information between government agencies. This move was ostensibly to stop in-fighting and turf wars within the differing bureaus! It was a foolish idea and caused many of the problems before 911!

I believe because it was the end of the Clinton Administration and the problems of her edict, plus the way the Clinton's and their minions refused to cooperate with the incoming Bush crew, NORAD dropped the ball. Was it coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not!

Just a thought!
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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #153 on: Jul 4th, 2012, 9:08pm »

Zetar, everyone is entitled to their opinion naturally. I won't push too hard on 9/11 because there is one very suspicious item involved. SAM sites which are well hidden in the DC area that did not go off. And afterwards the CIA claimed that they don't exist. I know for a fact they were there in 1972, and it would make little sense to remove them.

Of course the government never does anything that does not make sense, does it? grin

But Pearl Harbor is another matter entirely. People try to paint a government in the know very hard, and we had broken their code, but Yamamoto's fleet was under strict radio silence, and their plan was never mentioned outside the Emperor's Palace. On top of that, only a select few fleet officers knew the target.

That said, we did know we were going to get hit, we just didn't know when and where. We had cut off their oil supply, so they had to make a move somewhere. But the logical choice was Corregidor because the oil they needed was on the Malay Peninsula. Nobody even dreamed they would hit Pearl, Wake, the Philipines, Malaysia, Burma, and New Britain in one sweeping offensive like that. Especially when they were so busy in China. Yamamoto himself expected the offensive to take the better part of six months.

Pearl Harbor was a case of leaving our pants down, nothing more. MacArthur was prepared at that time on Luzon, but it was the only place on alert. After Pearl Luzon became sacrificial because we lacked the support ships to resupply. If you will recall, the Atlantic Fleet was already busy. As bad as some people want it to be true, Pearl Harbor was not entangled in conspiracy. The Japanese shocked the entire world with their target selection.

9/11, I can't say with that degree of certainty. I tend to doubt the attack was ours. On the other hand the official story stinks something fierce. It has always been my opinion that whoever was behind the attacks had a mole in our military giving them information. But I could be wrong. However, if you stop to think about it carefully, it might not make as much sense as you think. There are a lot of Muslims in our military, every one of which could have potentially set the blindsiding up on their own. This was not that big a deal. I'm willing to be open minded about 9/11, but I think the guilt takes a different path than anybody suspects. No, I don't really think bin Laden was behind it. Terrorists always rush to claim responsibility, and he never said squat. In my opinion you need to look for a better motive than passing the Patriot Act though. They've had something far nastier in the wings since the Nixon Administration which could legally be invoked right now. It's called the Economic Emergency Act. If ever you need a laxative real bad, read the deep inner workings of that monster. It will clean you out real good. We're going to have a very bad day if that thing is ever invoked.

So who had an interest to see us at war? I can think of quite a few folks. Iran, China, North Korea, even a couple of Eastern European nations. It may even have been revenge of the Serbs. Ever think of that?

As far as there being a major problem with the official story, well, you will never get an argument out of me about that.

But I will tell you one thing. If they planned to subdue us like you say, they miscalculated. Out here in the west civil war is a definite possibility due to these three lame administrations in a row. Times are extremely bad here, people are ticked, one almost feels the lit matches in the powder magazine. If this was their plan, they failed to see this. You know nobody wants to see civil war anywhere. Civil wars are nasty, bloody affairs.

Our local unemployment is back at 19% again. Bad enough for you?

Tim
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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #154 on: Jul 4th, 2012, 9:36pm »

AS I SAID ...THE PATRIOT ACT WAS ONE OF NUMEROUS PIECES...KEEP IN MIND THE DAY BEFORE RUMSFELD WAS IN FRONT OF THE CAMERAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHERE TWO TRILLION DOLLARS WENT...IS IT COINCIDENCE THAT WHERE THE PENTAGON WAS HIT WAS WHERE ALL DOCUMENTS AS WELL AS ACCOUNTANTS WHOM KNEW WHERE THIS MONEY WENT...WAS DEVASTATED...
IT IS SO MANY PIECES THAT AT SOME POINT...COINCIDENCE GOES OUT THE WINDOW...BUT HEY...THIS IS ONE WHEREIN WE MAY AGREE TO DISAGREE...WHICH IS FINE FOR ME...

LIKE THE UFO PHENOMENA...IT'S HARD TO DISMISS THE EXISTENCE OF UFO'S WITH SO MUCH FRACTIONAL EVIDENCE...BUT MANY DO...OFTEN TO THEIR CHAGRIN...

SHALOM...ZETAR
« Last Edit: Jul 4th, 2012, 9:40pm by ZETAR » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #155 on: Jul 4th, 2012, 9:55pm »

on Jul 4th, 2012, 1:25pm, PowerKnight wrote:
ZETAR and purr have their opinions which reflects this whole belief in what they think is a mass 9/11 conspiracy, that`s fine such is the diverse here, PowerKnight wink


I appreciate your civil treatment of this deeply contentious subject, PowerKnight. Of course I don't presume to speak for ZETAR, I do not know how he developed his insights, but here's the path I took.

I watched the 9/11 attacks on Dutch TV, zapping a lot to CNN, believed the media's reporting, and immediately recognized it as a major military win for Al Qaeda. America is a friendly nation to us, so I was totally with entering Afghanistan. But the Iraq thing immediately seemed off, a pack of blatant lies by Bush and Blair, driven somehow to invade Iraq at any cost, from a hidden motivation (utterly devoid of true WMD concerns!). An action so bizarre, it left me wondering ever since.

Years after that I learnt of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, thought them most probably a bunch of flakes, I even debunked adherents; yet as an exercise in open-mindedness I did create a model bringing the facts and conspiracy theories together.

The information which most strongly swayed me toward a US shadowgovernment executed mission to explain the sequence of events, and the evidence gathered, was the official report on the collapse of building 7.

Interestingly, I have found hardly a soul, very few among the "truthseeking" public, who has read that entire report. Could be because of its technical nature, distrust in anything official, or simply because of big text.

Anyhow, I read and took time considering its finding, and shockingly it fails to establish the scientific cause of 7's collapse. Investigators did a great job, honest too. But they had no (=extremely limited) access to the impacted debris, and steel beams at Ground Zero. So no real forensics. The report openly excludes some facts from publication, in particular anything leading to apportioning blame, proving crime. The final determination of the cause of WTC 7's fall is curiously framed as safety advise for designing and building, and the MOST PROBABLE cause (using limited data), instead of the proven one.

Conclusions mainly rest on a computer simulation of that building's fires and gradual degradation, leading to total collapse. But some fires entered as data were not measured. Effects of a functional (cooling) sprinkler system are not accounted for. Fire seals between floors (which should halt fire from spreading) are not accounted for. Sounds of explosions are not fully dealt with, nor the appearance of fires dying down, nor the impossible 6-second freefall of Building 7 at the point of total collapse.

If you ignore the analytical gymnastics of the authors, what it says is that the cause of 7's fall is unknown. Unprecedented. Maybe even not possible.

My logic, if 7 could not fall, securely held up by steel beams, it WAS TAKEN DOWN. Then if buillding 7 had been rigged well in advance for demolition, it follows: so have the twin towers. The demolition was designed to simulate the impact of three jetliners on three buildings, however the terrorists only managed to hijack two. Bummer, and a major headache for the planners of this spectacular event. Imho building 7 is the smoking gun.


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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #156 on: Jul 4th, 2012, 10:19pm »

Don't worry Zetar. I doubt we're as far apart as you might think. Look at the final part of my post. We have bigger worries headed our way now. Far bigger. I don't know what region you live in, so I'm forced to ask how bad things are where you're at. This nation is fixing to come apart at the seams in a major way if something doesn't change. 9/11 is old news these days. We have something called the complete trashing of the nation taking place. It's time to move on and plan ahead.

Could you pass the ammo please? grin

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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #157 on: Jul 4th, 2012, 11:16pm »

911 was definitely a false flag.

The Patriot Act was ready to go.

Look where the money went.

Look at what's happened since.

Endless wars, global depression

The big got bigger.

The US changed into a fascist regime.

Sure...it been that way a long time.

But it's right out in the open now and a whole lot more realize what's going on now.....and who are calling the shots.

It's not the Potus or either Party.

Quote:
There is a Real Power Elite

My simplistic view is the entire Western economy has been screwed by a power elite, mostly a group of ancient families of immeasurable wealth and power using their control of the central banking cartel, corporate oligarchs and international banking elites to plunder the wealth and prosperity from this and past generations.

The Internet Reformation is making it possible for individuals to now, for the first time in recorded history, discover the real world of the present and the past and come to recognize how we are more manipulated through directed history, memes, elite propaganda and manufactured public opinion than anyone dared realize before the birth of the Internet.

The power elite wants to continue to rule and maintain business as usual. They have developed structures, organizations and institutions to maintain and continue to expand their control over the entire world as regions outside the West develop, standards of living rise and there is simply more wealth to plunder. The knowledge, information available on the Internet and instant communications are making their job more difficult and this threatens the future of their mafia/parasitic like existence.

Thus, here today in the second decade of the 21st century, the battle lines are drawn between free thinkers desiring to live free and prosper and those who rule over and manipulate the world around us. This will be a battle to the death of ideas, liberty and the free market versus old style controls and ultimately force because the truth of our existence is now available to all who desire to understand war, politics, finance and central banking.
.http://www.thedailybell.com/4048/Ron-Holland-Introducing-The-Internet-Reformation-Society-IRS


I would add that 911 was implemented because the elite desired more control....and the fear based propaganda from the powerful images of that day.....easily allowed draconian measures to become reality...in fact most supported it.

I did at the time.

But then I funny thing happened to me.

I worked in an industry that imploded. Still do in fact.

That reality of what happened is far different than what most think.

I educated myself to what actually happen and I've discovered that the world isn't what I thought it was.

It's far darker than I could have possibly imagined.

The amount of corruption is staggering.

It still continues to the day.....Liborgate.

It's a huge fraud....one of the biggest.....and yet most just don't seem to care....or even realize what I'm talking about.

So 911 was a huge success for the elites.

Expect more fear based memes.

Expect more secret deals.

Expect more war.

Expect bailouts and corporate welfare

Expect another large event
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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #158 on: Jul 5th, 2012, 06:35am »

I disagree with part of what you said. But in the event I turn out to be wrong and you right, heed what I said about civil war. People are ready here. And who knows what the split in the military will be.

If you live in a city, have a route to get out. Before it hits the fan.

Buy a black market gun (untraceable) and start hoarding ammo.

Camping equipment. Hows your survival skills?

It really doesn't matter who did 9/11 anyway. Out here it looks like that war might happen no matter what. Everybody knows the government has lied about things for ages. But Obama is taking it to an entirely new level. Three dud presidents in a row has taken its toll. People are flat out mad here.

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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #159 on: Jul 5th, 2012, 06:44am »

Not mad enough yet
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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #160 on: Jul 5th, 2012, 07:49am »

Purr,

Yes, building 7 is definitely the smoking gun.

It can be summed up in one very simple question.

Why wasn't the fire in building seven extinguished right at the beginning ?

After all, it was hardly a fire of any consequence.

There seems to be no logical reason for not just going in and putting it out before it grew.

HAL
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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #161 on: Jul 5th, 2012, 08:07am »

on Jul 5th, 2012, 06:44am, murnut wrote:
Not mad enough yet


If this turns out to be the case, you'd best get mad ...... or get out of the way. There are plenty of people who are which do not believe in a 9/11 conspiracy. They are angry over matters closer to home.

I might point out that you need to pick that escape route with care as well. In many areas the army will be coming out of those hills in a case such as this. And buy a bow for hunting food. The gun would be an emergency protection measure for you and your family. My personal recommendation there would be a 30.06. Close to the same power and range as a 300 Magnum. But the ammunition is cheap and readily available. It makes an excellent sniper's weapon which is important. The only time you would want to fire a gun under these circumstances would be an extreme emergency with dire consequences. Otherwise it would attract too much attention.

It might seem crazy to plan like this, but with things taking the direction they are, better safe than sorry is the only sound policy. Unless you would want to fight on the lines, I would highly recommend finding one's way to parts unknown if things start falling apart. Ever been around a civil war? I have. They're the worst type of war. Everybody is fair game. Ask Lone. I believe he has seen this type as well. Very nasty activities there.

Tim
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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #162 on: Jul 5th, 2012, 10:12am »

on Jul 4th, 2012, 11:16pm, murnut wrote:
I educated myself to what actually happen and I've discovered that the world isn't what I thought it was.


Such education requires more courage and stamina than most people are able to drum up. The unfortunate truth of the matter is that a person is simply unqualified to evaluate and understand what takes place within circumstances such as 911 - and many matters within ufology, as well - if they are unwilling to educate themselves about matters surrounding military intelligence.

People naturally wade into UFO Land due to their interests in science fiction, UFO sightings, reports of entities and so on. They are understandably not initially interested in subjects such as the Central Intelligence Agency, exotic military aircraft and psychology.

However, the discriminating and self-honest observer becomes aware such subject matter is inseparable from tales of triangle craft, missing time/short term amnesia and witness accounts that are fully indicative of having sustained extreme emotional trauma. To leave the CIA and psych/traumata out of assessments of reports of UFO sightings and alien abduction is comparable to omitting the influence of the Catholic Church from a study of the 17th century witch trials.

For starters, a person must be willing to accept they need to study a variety of subject matter of which they had no previous interest, or at least this is the case if they expect to be able to competently understand and discuss the topics that arise. The biggest challenge, of course, is that such education takes all the fun out of a good tale of alien raping and pillaging (or the threat of inherently evil [insert ethnic slur here] carrying out acts of terror). Combine that with the fact most people would prefer to not be aware of the extent of human rights abuses that are standard methods of operation among global intel agencies, and you definitely have a recipe for heads being stuck in the sand while propaganda abounds.

In my own research and resulting blogging on such issues, I have repeatedly found that when confronted with specific details that contradict preferred stories, people will resort to virtually any means possible to avoid addressing and accepting the contradictions. Hate mongering, personal attacks and outright lies are standard fare in the denial of the relevance of the global intel community in matters commonly of interest to those who follow ufology. People who claim to be on courageous missions to find the truth all too often and in reality simply do not want to know because they would have to re-evaluate their premature conclusions.
« Last Edit: Jul 5th, 2012, 10:14am by jjflash » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #163 on: Jul 5th, 2012, 11:46am »

on Jul 5th, 2012, 07:49am, HAL9000 wrote:
Purr,

Yes, building 7 is definitely the smoking gun.

It can be summed up in one very simple question.

Why wasn't the fire in building seven extinguished right at the beginning ?

After all, it was hardly a fire of any consequence.

There seems to be no logical reason for not just going in and putting it out before it grew.

HAL


Good point, HAL, I hadn't thought of that. I'm aware that the building stood for seven hours after the drama of WTC 1 and 2 unfolded, which time was used to fully evacuate by I believe the 4th hour. The building then was seen to hold up for all of these 7 hours, right until the 6.5 seconds of 'freefall'-style "global collapse". Global is the NIST term for 'complete'/'entirely'.


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xx Re: Reopen 911 Conspiracy about the Twin Towers 20
« Reply #164 on: Jul 5th, 2012, 12:15pm »

on Jul 5th, 2012, 10:12am, jjflash wrote:
Such education requires more courage and stamina than most people are able to drum up. The unfortunate truth of the matter is that a person is simply unqualified to evaluate and understand what takes place within circumstances such as 911 - and many matters within ufology, as well - if they are unwilling to educate themselves about matters surrounding military intelligence.

People naturally wade into UFO Land due to their interests in science fiction, UFO sightings, reports of entities and so on. They are understandably not initially interested in subjects such as the Central Intelligence Agency, exotic military aircraft and psychology.

However, the discriminating and self-honest observer becomes aware such subject matter is inseparable from tales of triangle craft, missing time/short term amnesia and witness accounts that are fully indicative of having sustained extreme emotional trauma. To leave the CIA and psych/traumata out of assessments of reports of UFO sightings and alien abduction is comparable to omitting the influence of the Catholic Church from a study of the 17th century witch trials.

For starters, a person must be willing to accept they need to study a variety of subject matter of which they had no previous interest, or at least this is the case if they expect to be able to competently understand and discuss the topics that arise. The biggest challenge, of course, is that such education takes all the fun out of a good tale of alien raping and pillaging (or the threat of inherently evil [insert ethnic slur here] carrying out acts of terror). Combine that with the fact most people would prefer to not be aware of the extent of human rights abuses that are standard methods of operation among global intel agencies, and you definitely have a recipe for heads being stuck in the sand while propaganda abounds.

In my own research and resulting blogging on such issues, I have repeatedly found that when confronted with specific details that contradict preferred stories, people will resort to virtually any means possible to avoid addressing and accepting the contradictions. Hate mongering, personal attacks and outright lies are standard fare in the denial of the relevance of the global intel community in matters commonly of interest to those who follow ufology. People who claim to be on courageous missions to find the truth all too often and in reality simply do not want to know because they would have to re-evaluate their premature conclusions.


From your perspective, do you see the hand of the CIA, or other factions of US intelligence or the military in the 9/11 attacks, jjflash?


purr
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