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 sticky  Author  Topic: hollow earth may be real  (Read 26827 times)
ava
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #255 on: May 30th, 2009, 2:28pm »

Almost forgot.
Did you see the Top Gear program in which Clarkson drove a pickup across the ice to the pole ?

Sorry africa, this hole just doesn't make sense. Too many people have been in the area.

ava
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #256 on: May 30th, 2009, 2:44pm »

on May 30th, 2009, 1:50pm, ava wrote:
Africa,

'Red Ball in the Sky' By Charles Francis Blair.

Below is a comment on this book. I've read it. It does describe Blair crossing the North Pole.

..U.K.: Jarrolds, 1970. xiv, 208 pages which includes an index. Illustrated with black and white plates. Foreword by Lowell Thomas. ' One sunny day in May 1951 a bareheaded man in tweeds streaked across the top of the world in one of the great flights of history. The pilot was Charles Blair; and this was the first long distance solo flight across any polar region, demonstrating that non-military transpolar flights were feasible. It proved too that the Arctic Ocean was no longer a barrier against air attack. As a result Blair was invited by the Strategic Air Command to help develop a new scheme of military tactics, thus becoming the only regular fighter pilot who, as a Pan Am captain, also flew airliners to Europe at weekends. Blair tells too of his pioneering achievements in flying boats, of the Air Mail pilots with whom he flew across the Rockies, of his dash in a P-51 from New York to London on the crest of a winter jet stream, and of his leading the first flight of jet fighters to cross the North Pole. Above all an action story, Red Ball in the Sky is the engrossing autobiography of one of America's most distinguished flyers-and of a man whose warnings about the spreading technology of thermonuclear weapons must be listened to with respect

ava


Hi AVA,
there are many that claimed flying over north pole starting with Byrd in 1926 and few days later on Norge zeppelin Amundsen,Ellesmere and Nobile.
Navigating in extreme northern(southern) latitudes is very very difficult and even recently few 747 and 777 were lost and had to turn back or loose 2-3 hours.
When you are plotting your position on normal charts for polar navigation and it gives you position on the pole you are in fact on 87.8 N.
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #257 on: May 30th, 2009, 9:12pm »

on May 30th, 2009, 2:28pm, ava wrote:
Sorry africa, this hole just doesn't make sense. Too many people have been in the area.
ava


ava... what makes sense to me, is that there is a smoking gun that some huge coverup of the truth about the poles is going on today. What are they hiding? We should have open access to tons of photography, but the public does not.

Why does the University of Illinois put their silly black dots on their cryosphere of the North pole infrared pictures.. taken from stationary satellites?
Why are there videos directly from NASA which show "something" streaming out of a hole at the center of Antarctica?
Why are there videos of Jupiter showing something bright, like sunlight, coming from the direct center of Jupiter's poles?
Why is there a NASA satellite video of the North pole from polar orbiting satellites which show a large circular area in the clouds which is distinctly different than normal artic clouds?

To me, this not only is a smoking gun, it is a smoking cannon.

on May 29th, 2009, 11:00am, ava wrote:
Let me get this straight. You are saying that there is an area about 95 nautical mile in diameter that is located at the North pole and is always covered with cloud. And that 99.9 percent of the folks that have traversed this area are sworn to some kind of secrecy ?

ava


Ava, I am a private pilot, although I haven’t flown for some years because it is expensive. Even in the best of conditions, when you fly, if you are a “fair weather pilot”, you need to check ground references against navigation maps. I don’t think I’d be flying, or walking across ice (which changes with the weather) based on navigations maps which don’t exist. Or, you can use your airplanes instruments to direct you based on ground radar transmitters. Where are the ground radar transmitting stations in the artic circle, and who maintains them?

Oh, I guess there are none… so it must be satellites providing radio signals to determine location. And who controls those?

There is a lot of nothing but ice covering a region as large as America in the artic circle. And you want me to believe that the “folks that have traversed this area” are confident they knew precisely where they were at? I suppose the North Pole street signs told them exactly where they were at, and once they knew that, they then went to McDonalds to get a hamburger.

Ava, I'm not picking on you... because I too am trying to find evidence of anyone who really has been at the exact North pole and proved it. How does one prove it?

« Last Edit: May 30th, 2009, 9:45pm by KathyT » User IP Logged

ava
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #258 on: Jun 2nd, 2009, 1:53pm »

KathyT,

Hey, no worries. I don't see you as picking on me, just trying to justify your position; which is fine.

I'll do a bit of searching and get back to you in this one, but to be going on with,
Radar stations. What about the Arctic Survey people that run planes in an out of the region ?

Polar explorers, Lots of them. Do you really believe that they were all mistaken.

Then there is the Polar early warning radars that watch out for Russian ICBMs. I suppose you would automatically discount them as being part of the cover up.

To quote Arnie 'I'll be back'. smiley

ava
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #259 on: Jun 2nd, 2009, 7:26pm »

on May 30th, 2009, 9:12pm, KathyT wrote:
Why does the University of Illinois put their silly black dots on their cryosphere of the North pole infrared pictures.. taken from stationary satellites?
Why are there videos directly from NASA which show "something" streaming out of a hole at the center of Antarctica?
Why are there videos of Jupiter showing something bright, like sunlight, coming from the direct center of Jupiter's poles?
Why is there a NASA satellite video of the North pole from polar orbiting satellites which show a large circular area in the clouds which is distinctly different than normal artic clouds?


I'm having difficulty finding these. Could you please provide links for them? My search parameters are probably way too broad.
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ava
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #260 on: Jun 3rd, 2009, 04:12am »

KathyT,

So I did some searching. After an hour or so it hit me that I was really wasting my time. There are thousands of reports, polar explorer biographies ariel photos etc. But it dawned on me that non of this would constitute proof that there was no hole; at least not to you. You would simply respond with the usual 'it's all top secret' or ' all these people never actually went to the pole, they passed it by some tens of miles to one side or the other. So I have to admit defeat. I can't personally prove my point.
Were it somewhere reasonably close I could go there myself and look, but then you wouldn't believe my report anyway.
But I can answer one point. How would I know I had passed over the Pole. Easy. Like you, At one time I also did PPL training. Also had to give it up when I ran out of cash. As we both know, a magnetic compass gives very erroneous readings close to the pole. But when flying around one doesn't use the compass, one uses the gyro direction indicator. Only checking this against the compass ocasionally. So I would set my DI, turn onto North and simply fly in a straight line until I had crossed the Arctic . I could also use a Sun compass to check my position, or be really modern and use the GPS system.

So, you win this one. But I believe you are wrong.

Like Urban Shaman, I'll appreciate some direction to the examples you quoted.

ava

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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #261 on: Jun 3rd, 2009, 5:57pm »

on Jun 3rd, 2009, 04:12am, ava wrote:
KathyT,

So I did some searching. After an hour or so it hit me that I was really wasting my time. There are thousands of reports, polar explorer biographies ariel photos etc. But it dawned on me that non of this would constitute proof that there was no hole; at least not to you. You would simply respond with the usual 'it's all top secret' or ' all these people never actually went to the pole, they passed it by some tens of miles to one side or the other. So I have to admit defeat. I can't personally prove my point.
Were it somewhere reasonably close I could go there myself and look, but then you wouldn't believe my report anyway.
But I can answer one point. How would I know I had passed over the Pole. Easy. Like you, At one time I also did PPL training. Also had to give it up when I ran out of cash. As we both know, a magnetic compass gives very erroneous readings close to the pole. But when flying around one doesn't use the compass, one uses the gyro direction indicator. Only checking this against the compass ocasionally. So I would set my DI, turn onto North and simply fly in a straight line until I had crossed the Arctic . I could also use a Sun compass to check my position, or be really modern and use the GPS system.

So, you win this one. But I believe you are wrong.

Like Urban Shaman, I'll appreciate some direction to the examples you quoted.

ava




Hi AVA,
if it would be closer north pole you would go there and find out yourself the truth.
You would be definitely lost for several reasons.
One is that you would use Sun compass which does not exist.
Gyro compass is unusable in very high latitudes.
GPS is highly inaccurate from 82-85 N and unusable from 85- 90 N.
What remains you? A Polar star(Polaris) and you will follow it strait north (if clear sky of course) and with great difficulty as very high to find correct direction.You will arrive to see the Polar star in zenith very very soon and you would be wandering how is it possible that you made such a tremendous speed to the pole.You will be convinced you are on the pole but you would be just on 86 deg. N as shown on the image bellow marked with red arrow:

http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/capada/?action=view¤t=hollowearth125-1-1-1.jpg&t=1244068172993

And this is a zenith view of North pole hole:

http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/capada/?action=view¤t=holepole002.jpg

The hole starts at 85 deg. N and for accurate navigation inside the region of the pole you would need special satellite instruments and permits for polar navigation.

It is strictly prohibited to reach 90 deg.N on normal polar projection charts which is in fact 87.8 deg. N.
Center span of the hole is only 95 nm in diameter therefore when you are really on 89.23 deg. N you are deep inside the hole.

I could also tell you, if you plot on normal polar chart your position, even the best possible within hole region, that position will be in the space above the hole.

I hope you understood all this.
« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2009, 04:15am by africa » User IP Logged

KathyT
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #262 on: Jun 3rd, 2009, 11:57pm »

on Jun 3rd, 2009, 04:12am, ava wrote:
KathyT,

But I can answer one point. How would I know I had passed over the Pole. Easy. Like you, At one time I also did PPL training. Also had to give it up when I ran out of cash. As we both know, a magnetic compass gives very erroneous readings close to the pole. But when flying around one doesn't use the compass, one uses the gyro direction indicator. Only checking this against the compass ocasionally. So I would set my DI, turn onto North and simply fly in a straight line until I had crossed the Arctic . I could also use a Sun compass to check my position, or be really modern and use the GPS system.

ava



Ava:
It’s great you did a little PPL training, and I can only suggest that you continue with further studies in this area, to get a greater understanding of flying requirements. Be prepared to take your flight exam entirely by instruments, even though you won’t be certified with an instrument rating. I had to.

There are no airports in the arctic ocean. Just the ocean itself is approximately 2,000 to 3,000 miles across, depending on which land continent to continent you plan on going to and from. That is further than from San Francisco to New York City, which is about 2,400 miles by a straight line. Are you planning your private pilot flight in a small plane, one that can make the entire 2K to 3K without any landing, or without any re-fueling? There are some airliners that can go that far, and quite a few military airplanes, but no popular light airplane can come even close. Most popular light airplanes have a range of say 400-600 miles. So which airport to which airport across the artic ocean do you plan to fly to and from?
So maybe instead you’re planning to fly some executive jet across the Arctic?

A Sun compass would only work for months the sun could be seen from the Arctic, and that eliminates half the year when the sun never comes up in the arctic. However, for a sun compass to work, you have to know your location and time, and it has to lay flat. I’ll grant you that you would carry the most accurate watch possible, but how would you know exactly where you were in flight? If you’d like to try navigating a plane long distance with a sun compass, please go right ahead, but don’t ask me to fly a route depending on a Sun compass and come back alive.

How do you plan on flying in a straight line? By sight? Through fog and clouds, or even over the top of clouds? You say you’d set your Direction Indicator (DI), but you’ve also agreed a magnetic compass is erroneous close to the poles, so I haven’t the faintest idea how you would rely on your DI. I’d suggest you read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heading_indicator about a gyroscope drift and it being the greatest over the poles.

So forget all of that and let’s talk about GPS systems. You might want to check sites discussing the GPS system north of the artic circle, like this one:
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?threadID=216229&start=75 I found sites talking about GPS usage on the edges of the arctic circle, but found nothing working north of 85N, just like Africa says “GPS is highly inaccurate from 82-85 N and unusable from 85- 90 N.” So that is at least 700 miles of crossing (or more) with nothing to guide you… no airports for re-fueling, probably in foggy and full cloud cover.

So I haven’t the foggiest idea how you’d know you’ve passed over the north pole flying your own plane.

The other examples you and Urban want, are in the 18 pages of this post, but I will try to repeat them in another post.
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #263 on: Jun 4th, 2009, 12:18am »

on Jun 2nd, 2009, 7:26pm, Urban Shaman wrote:
I'm having difficulty finding these. Could you please provide links for them? My search parameters are probably way too broad.


Everything has been posted on prior pages of this very thread:

Thread page 15: University of Illinois, which shows the cryosphere (frozen water part of the Earth system) at the Arctic. These images are coming from stationary satellite cameras, infrared or thermal imaging. What are the silly black dots covering? http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere

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Thread page 14: NASA website which shows video clip of Jupiter is http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/animation/PIA03453

Website about Jupiter with NASA images that animate at http://hollowjupiter.blogspot.com/ and it alleges that sunlight shines out from the poles at Jupiter, that website looks like this:
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Thread page 14: NASA videos of the Aurora charged particles around Antarctica.

http://www.nasa.gov/mov/71416main_IMAGE_FUV_320x240_48fps.mov A distinct small dark hole at the center where the hole is.

(Another NASA video showing what appears to be streaming particles coming from a hole is
http://www.nasa.gov/mov/133778main_FUV_640x480.mov )

This new video I found comes from this page http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/aurora1110_prt.htm There is a place right there on the webpage where you can download the video.
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Thread page 11: Africa posted this NASA polar satellite video. Click on image below to link to full video in photobucket. Look closely, you will see the circular area in the clouds distinct from all the other cloud cover.
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« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2009, 12:32am by KathyT » User IP Logged

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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #264 on: Jun 4th, 2009, 12:38am »

Fair enough. If you say the pictures are there then I'll go back and check.

Here are some of my own links to news articles and the like. What I find most interesting are the expedition reports for Polar Explorer. They're a group that give several ways for people to go to the Geographical North Pole, whether by chartered flights, a trek from 85deg up to 90, or by ice breaker then sledding.

Check it out at: http://polarexplorers.com/

An example of their expeditions can be found here: http://polarexplorers.com/blogs/YPO.WPO.htm

Furthermore, the Russians have planted a flag on the seabed of the North Pole: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6927395.stm

This guy swam in some open water at the North Pole, apparently. THat would have been cold! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Gordon_Pugh

And some guy stood for 24 hours at the North Pole (inasmuch as he could with the drift) so that he could be the only man to not turn with the world.
http://www.roofvogel.org/test/nummernegen.html

Oh... and Gyrocompasses work at the North Pole. They just don't have a tilt.
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ava
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #265 on: Jun 4th, 2009, 3:17pm »

Oh most annoying. I just wrote half a page and timed out. Have to do it again.

Kathyt,

... Be prepared to take your flight exam entirely by instruments, even though you won’t be certified with an instrument rating...

Why not ? I'd take my PPL in VFR conditions, as usual, then take an IFR rating course. Why should I not be certified ?

...One is that you would use Sun compass which does not exist....

Of course it exists. I'ts a very simple affair. If you read Blair's book that I allude to you will learn all about it. It is why he called the book 'red ball in the sky'.

...Gyro compass is unusable in very high latitudes...

Is it ! Why ?

...Just the ocean itself is approximately 2,000 to 3,000 miles across, .....

Just been looking at my atlas. Inside a circle formed by 80' North Latitude there are numerous pieces of land ranging from Severnaya Zemla in the northern Soviet Union, around a goodly part of Northern Greenland and including Queen Elizabeth Islands in Northern Canada. Hardly 2000 to 3000 miles of ocean.

....A Sun compass would only work for months the sun could be seen from the Arctic, and that eliminates half the year when the sun never comes up ...

Come on now. You just told me a sun compass doesn't exist. Anyway, Maybe from 42,000 feet it is visible, I don't know.

...How do you plan on flying in a straight line? By sight? Through fog and clouds, or even over the top of clouds? You say you’d set your Direction Indicator (DI), but you’ve also agreed a magnetic compass is erroneous close to the poles, so I haven’t the faintest idea how you would rely on your DI. ....

I would calculate the drift and allow for this. periodically correcting it.

We seem to be getting away from the real point of this. Obviously there is no way I personally can do this flight. But with a Lear Jet, enough money and the right permissions I see no reason why it can't be done.

You are trying to create artificial barriers.

Lets try another approach.

A large (very large) group of polar explorers, spaced 1 kilometer apart and in communication by radio set off from one side of the polar region and cross to the other. Right across the middle. Do you believe that something is going to happen to the ones in the middle ?

ava
p.s. Though I didn't get my ppl, I did work in the light aircraft industry once upon a time.

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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #266 on: Jun 4th, 2009, 4:03pm »

Yeah, I got confused by the seemingly 180 post also... but you'll see that africa replied, followed by KathyT.
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #267 on: Jun 4th, 2009, 5:07pm »

on Jun 4th, 2009, 3:17pm, ava wrote:
KathyT

“Why not ? I'd take my PPL in VFR conditions, as usual, then take an IFR rating course. Why should I not be certified ?”



Ava,
You misunderstood me. When you take your PPL/VRF test, it is likely to be entirely done under the hood, which means, you are flying by instruments. That was how my test was done. That does not give you an IFR certification.

“...One is that you would use Sun compass which does not exist....

Of course it exists. I'ts a very simple affair. If you read Blair's book that I allude to you will learn all about it. It is why he called the book 'red ball in the sky'.”

Ava, this was NOT my statement. Look back through the post.

“...Gyro compass is unusable in very high latitudes...

Is it ! Why ?”

Ava, this was NOT my statement. Look back through the post.

“Come on now. You just told me a sun compass doesn't exist. Anyway, Maybe from 42,000 feet it is visible, I don't know.”

Ava, I did not say a sun compass does not exist. Look back through the post.


“You are trying to create artificial barriers. “

Nope, only looking for proof. Ground pictures are not proof, false claims can be made, and the pictures could have been taken 100's of miles away.

« Last Edit: Jun 6th, 2009, 07:01am by KathyT » User IP Logged

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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #268 on: Jun 4th, 2009, 5:20pm »

What about my stuff?
I thought the Polar Explorers stuff was especially pertinent.
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ava
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #269 on: Jun 5th, 2009, 10:31am »

KathyT,

My most humble apologies. It was indeed not your post. Very unlike me to make such a basic error.

So Africa, perhaps you would like to address the points I made to KathyT !

KathyT, I'm still interested in what you think would happen to a very long line of people walking across the pole.

Urban Shaman's points about the polar stuff also need to be addressed.

ava
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