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 sticky  Author  Topic: hollow earth may be real  (Read 21939 times)
africa
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #270 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 05:50am »

COMPASS is the instrument showing north-south.

Magnetic compass should be corrected for variation published on the charts and deviation+,- which is different for each mag. compass and depending on many factors and only than you have true north-south.

Gyro compass is showing true north-south and is directly related to Earth's rotation and geographical latitude. The best at Equator(fastest gaining N-S direction) and not usable in the Earth's axis of rotation on the poles.
More you approach 90 deg. N-S more time needs a Gyro compass to align with Earth's axis of rotation until you reach the pole and there will never align.
So above 85 deg. a gyro compass is very unreliable but Russian scientists with icebreaker Yamal in several voyages to very high latitudes researched and constructed somewhat better Gyro for those latitudes.

What they call Sun compass or Star compass are in fact Direction finders for which you need Ephemerids almanac and very precise chronometer and computing to get direction N-S.

On polar expeditions I could just tell you in modern times it is great business.20 000 $ for 4-7 days imagine what good business.
They say to bring them by plane or helicopter or icebreaker to 89 N and from there by other means to north pole.
First of all 89 deg. on normal chart is in fact 86.7 deg in reality.
I have seen many photographs from those expeditions while they were standing supposedly at the pole and there is nowhere to be seen NOAA webcam, which supposedly is on the pole too.

I have proved several times by shades of the sun that those photos were not taken on the poles including Amundsen-Scott south pole base and NOAA webcam on north pole.

Experienced polar explorers and flayers Amundsen and Byrd knew about the hole and would not be surprised that Amundsen, while saving Nobile after his crash with dirigible Italia,finally entered inner world and never perished in fact.

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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #271 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 06:29am »

Africa,

re,
...Gyro compass is showing true north-south and is directly related to Earth's rotation and geographical latitude. The best at Equator(fastest gaining N-S direction) and not usable in the Earth's axis of rotation on the poles...

I don't know where you got this from, but it completely wrong.

A gyro direction indicator (gyro compass) isn't bothered what direction magnetic north-south is. You pre-set the heading reference to something else. Usually it is the heading of the runway you are sat on prior to take off as that is known, fixed and not subject to magnetic compass variation. So If I was sat on, say runway 18 (180 degrees) I would set the heading to 180 (due South)
and would be sure of my direction regardless of any deviation in the magnetic compass. In theory I should periodically check the heading against some other device (radio navigation beacon , Magnetic compass if I was sure it was showing true, or even the stars if I knew how to do celestial navigation) but my gyro instrument would tell me what direction I was heading. Disregarding drift due to the wind etc I could follow that heading anywhere. So If I started from runway 36 (due north) at an airfield on the edge of Latitude 80'North then I could fly dead true over the North pole, even without any landmarks, until I hit land at the other side.

Now, about that line of ground based observers. What do you think?

ava
« Last Edit: Jun 6th, 2009, 06:31am by ava » User IP Logged

KathyT
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #272 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 06:56am »

on Jun 6th, 2009, 05:50am, africa wrote:
On polar expeditions I could just tell you in modern times it is great business.20 000 $ for 4-7 days imagine what good business.

I have seen many photographs from those expeditions while they were standing supposedly at the pole and there is nowhere to be seen NOAA webcam, which supposedly is on the pole too.

I have proved several times by shades of the sun that those photos were not taken on the poles including Amundsen-Scott south pole base and NOAA webcam on north pole.



Ava and Urban,
My entire career has required my work to be dead on accurate, and if not, I’ve had to keep evaluating and finding solutions until they worked accurately. I don’t live in the world of speculation.

Africa has mentioned in concept something we all need to consider, and at this point, I agree with him.
In modern time, it is good business to charge and get $20,000 per trip to a pole where you can not know for certainty that you’re there. What exact landmark do you find to prove you were there? None.

Any person could join an expedition and climb Mount Everest, and take photos and share stories and it would be pretty easy to determine whether the photos were truthful or not. Mount Everest is a specific known landmark, and anybody can get to the mountain even if they decide not to climb to the top. Same with the Grand Canyon in Arizona/USA. Any person can go there. I’ve gone to the Grand Canyon, I know it exists, it is a specifically known landmark.

There is no landmark at the 90N North Pole, or 90S South Pole. Militaries don’t tell anyone whether they’ve traveled to the correct location. Not for Everest, not for the Grand Canyon, not for the North or South Pole. That is not their line of business, and in fact, their line of business is primarily Secret. They haven’t been sharing their secrets for centuries. And if you look at the Smoking Gun, the intentional absence of aerial or satellite photography of both poles, which basically until now only the military could provide, the smoking gun has fired.
If I go to my travel agent, he/she will sell me travel packages, to anywhere in this world except for far north and far south. They want my money, they’d sell the ‘shirt off my back’ except they can package it with glowing pictures of all these vacation spots. People have been traveling by the millions every year to travel spots all over this globe, except for the far north and far south.

So if you’re daring enough and want to make some money on a tour package, what better way than collecting $20,000 per trip to take you to some frozen ice spot on the Arctic Ocean, where no one can prove where you have been? If you were to question them and claim Fraud, where are you going to sue them in court and win?

At this point, there is no way to prove any of the ‘pole’ pictures taken on the ground are where they say they are. At this point, the only way I can get ‘data’ that will tell me exactly what is at either the North Pole, or the South Pole, is to have photography taken from orbiting or stationary satellites. Many nations have satellites up there, it is now a question of whether they will release all of their photography. Or when.

Africa’s ability to determine photo location based on angle of sun based on time of year, is an excellent method of determining accuracy. Having been a marine captain, I’m sure he knows this stuff. Thank you Africa, for helping us with this information.
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #273 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 08:51am »

on Jun 6th, 2009, 06:29am, ava wrote:
Africa,

re,
...Gyro compass is showing true north-south and is directly related to Earth's rotation and geographical latitude. The best at Equator(fastest gaining N-S direction) and not usable in the Earth's axis of rotation on the poles...

I don't know where you got this from, but it completely wrong.

A gyro direction indicator (gyro compass) isn't bothered what direction magnetic north-south is. You pre-set the heading reference to something else. Usually it is the heading of the runway you are sat on prior to take off as that is known, fixed and not subject to magnetic compass variation. So If I was sat on, say runway 18 (180 degrees) I would set the heading to 180 (due South)
and would be sure of my direction regardless of any deviation in the magnetic compass. In theory I should periodically check the heading against some other device (radio navigation beacon , Magnetic compass if I was sure it was showing true, or even the stars if I knew how to do celestial navigation) but my gyro instrument would tell me what direction I was heading. Disregarding drift due to the wind etc I could follow that heading anywhere. So If I started from runway 36 (due north) at an airfield on the edge of Latitude 80'North then I could fly dead true over the North pole, even without any landmarks, until I hit land at the other side.

Now, about that line of ground based observers. What do you think?

ava



Hi AVA,
I think you mixed up a bit my information on both compasses.
Reed them again.
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #274 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 09:51am »

Africa,

nope. I've re-read it all and don't find any mix up.

re,
...What they call Sun compass or Star compass are in fact Direction finders for which you need Ephemerids almanac and very precise chronometer and computing to get direction N-S...

I agree that these are direction finding devices, surely that is the whole point of this excercise, to find the direction to the North Pole. And having found that direction (North would be a good start) to follow it to it's logical conclusion.
During WW11 bombers used to use celestial navigation all the time. accurate clocks are indeed a necessity, But even my wristwatch is accurate to better than 1 second in three month. I know this as I check it regularly against a radio controlled clock.

KathyT,

Got to agree with much of your last post. To carry it a little further let us use a realistic example. You are doing a trans-pacific solo race. Your mast breaks and you need help. How do you tell the world where you are. You have no land marks. Haven't seen one for weeks.

Or maybe you are in the middle of a large desert. Same applies. You would radio you position (according to your gps)to the appropriate people who would use their equipment to find you. In other words you would rely upon the same technology that would tell you when you reached the pole.

So let us assume that there is no way of telling where the pole is. I don't believe this, but for the sake of agument . Also assume I have lots of money (not true) and really do, want to find out about this hole.

I have funded an expedition comprising of thousand of polar types who are willing to form my long line of observers and walk across the ice. What is going to happen? That's not a rhetorical question. I really do want to know what you (and Africa) believe they will find.

ava

p.s....Having been a marine captain, I’m sure he knows this stuff.... really !
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #275 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 10:56am »

KathyT,

re,
...Why does the University of Illinois put their silly black dots on their cryosphere of the North pole infrared pictures.. taken from stationary satellites? ...

If you look down near the bottom of the cryosphere page, you will find a section entitled compare.

Click on this link and you reach a page where you can compare the images for different days. If you do this you will see that there are no dots on any of the images. Same images as the one you posted, but daily for the last 20 year or so.

ava
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #276 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 11:42am »

on Jun 6th, 2009, 10:56am, ava wrote:
If you look down near the bottom of the cryosphere page, you will find a section entitled compare.

Click on this link and you reach a page where you can compare the images for different days. If you do this you will see that there are no dots on any of the images. Same images as the one you posted, but daily for the last 20 year or so.

ava


Ava, you just gave me more evidence, I'm glad you sent me to the 'compare' images.
There is something quite obvious there that you have apparently missed.
I do work heavily with Photoshop and photography and examine a lot of images.
I'm going to let you work out what is on those photos.
I'll wait to see if any other poster can find it also.
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #277 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 12:48pm »

This is what I said on Gyro compass:


Gyro compass is showing true north-south and is directly related to Earth's rotation and geographical latitude. The best at Equator(fastest gaining N-S direction) and not usable in the Earth's axis of rotation on the poles.
More you approach 90 deg. N-S more time needs a Gyro compass to align with Earth's axis of rotation until you reach the pole and there will never align.
So above 85 deg. a gyro compass is very unreliable but Russian scientists with icebreaker Yamal in several voyages to very high latitudes researched and constructed somewhat better Gyro for those latitudes.

You said :

A gyro direction indicator (gyro compass) isn't bothered what direction magnetic north-south is.
-----------------------------------

Now you tell me where I said that magnetism influences the Gyro compass or any connection with magnetism .

All the communications including satellite communications are heavily disturbed in very high latitudes or impossible in extremely high latitudes.

On your chain of men strait to the pole I tell you the first one will be lost and he will not know it , but even if we suppose he did come to 90 00 deg he will think he is on the pole while in fact he will be on 87.8 N.

Why do you think there is no travel agencies offers to go to south pole if it is so lucrative business?
Because authorities will never allow it.




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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #278 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 1:18pm »

Africa,
..More you approach 90 deg. N-S more time needs a Gyro compass to align with Earth's axis of rotation until you reach the pole and there will never align..

The gyro compass depends upon it's gyro to maintain stability, nothing to go with the Earth's rotation.

....Now you tell me where I said that magnetism influences the Gyro compass or any connection with magnetism ...

I didn't say you did.

KathyT,

I'll look at these pictures again to see if I can find what you mean.

ava
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #279 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 6:35pm »

Hi AVA,
you said:
quote
The gyro compass depends upon it's gyro to maintain stability, nothing to go with the Earth's rotation.
unquote

Now if you are such an expert on Gyro compass tell us what is the reason it stabilizes in N-S direction.I would really like to read your explanation.
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #280 on: Jun 7th, 2009, 05:22am »

Africa,

...Now if you are such an expert on Gyro compass tell us what is the reason it stabilizes in N-S direction.I would really like to read your explanation. ...

It doesn't. You have to set it. That is why it is properly called a direction indicator, NOT a compass. You can set it any direction you want and the gyro stabilisation will hold the pointer in that direction regardless of which way the vehicle (aircraft in this case) is pointing. Generally speaking there is no reason to set it to any other direction except to coincide with the magnetic compass or a known direction i.e a runway. But you can wind the dial around to what ever you want.

You really should read up on it, it's quite interesting.

By the way, going back to the line of men. I intended for the line to be across the region, east to west, not in line south to north.

It is said that the reason that the korean Airlines 747 was over Russian airspace when it was shot down is because the gyro compass wasn't given enough time to stabalise before it was set prior to take off. It drifted and took the autopilot with it.
I believe that the space station and Hubble, to name but two, rely upon this principle.

ava
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #281 on: Jun 7th, 2009, 05:53am »

edited: Too harsh

To sum up: I'm bowing out of this argument.
« Last Edit: Jun 7th, 2009, 06:18am by Urban Shaman » User IP Logged

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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #282 on: Jun 7th, 2009, 06:56am »

Hi AVA,

...Now if you are such an expert on Gyro compass tell us what is the reason it stabilizes in N-S direction.I would really like to read your explanation. ...

You said:

QUOTE
It doesn't. You have to set it. That is why it is properly called a direction indicator, NOT a compass. You can set it any direction you want and the gyro stabilisation will hold the pointer in that direction regardless of which way the vehicle (aircraft in this case) is pointing. Generally speaking there is no reason to set it to any other direction except to coincide with the magnetic compass or a known direction i.e a runway. But you can wind the dial around to what ever you want.
UNQUOTE

After this your funny explanation I have really nothing more to discuss on this subject.
« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2009, 07:09am by africa » User IP Logged

ava
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #283 on: Jun 7th, 2009, 09:24am »

Africa,

fair enough, were just going around in circles anyway.

Let's drop this and move on.

ava

smiley
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xx Re: hollow earth may be real
« Reply #284 on: Jun 7th, 2009, 11:30am »

on Jun 7th, 2009, 09:24am, ava wrote:
Africa,

fair enough, were just going around in circles anyway.

Let's drop this and move on.

ava

smiley


I love it when maure adults agree to disagree without stooping to insults and name-calling smiley
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