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 sticky  Author  Topic: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911  (Read 23727 times)
purr
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #165 on: May 27th, 2014, 10:01am »

on May 27th, 2014, 08:57am, Meliy wrote:
Purr,
Years ago I had the chance to meet and talk to a 911 witness named Richard M_ . I write just 'M_' because I've never been able to figure out how his name was spelled.

He seemed to be honest and sincere. He was an insurance adjuster due to give a presentation at his insurance company's offices in the first tower of the WTC. He was on his cellphone talking to his wife, and happened to be looking out the windows in the direction of the incoming first airliner. He was just barely enough floors beneath the impact that the walls and stairs where he was standing were left intact temporarily.

He saw it come in, and and heard and felt the impact shake, and his wife heard the impact over the telephone. And immediately after that, he started running. Because he was an insurance adjuster, and he had some idea of the structural limits of the building. He did nothing heroic like trying to save other people, he just told his employers he was getting out and that they should too, then he ran and didn't stop. He ran so well he got a taxi out of the area before the first tower collapsed and it was all sealed off.

He died about 6 years later. He was in the hospital for a routine procedure, then due to a clerical error they mistakenly amputated his otherwise healthy legs. He didn't live long after that.

He was honest enough and sincere enough that I believe him that aircraft hit the WTC.


I respect your belief, extending that same respect to all other members who made the same (reasonable) deduction, Meliy.

But my hypothetical argument separates the jetliners' flight (=my phase 1) into the city, approaching the towers, from the apparent impact (=phase 2) events at the WTC buildings themselves. Both phases of the attack were seen and filmed, and I acknowledge the experiences and records of these observations.

Some of my reasons for such extraordinary skepticism were provided in earlier posts. In regard to their validity: you be the judge.

First phase. The flights towards WTC. (Here I part ways with many so called 'Truthers'.) I hold that two passenger planes were hijacked, target: Twin Towers, by al-Qaeda affiliated terrorists, part of a larger operation intended to comprise 5 jets total, but resulting in just 4 under positive terrorist control. (That 5th was aimed for Building 7, yet never took off.) These two airplanes were real, and were seen and filmed making their way to the towers. I have no doubt Richard the Insurance Adjuster may have glimpsed one "come in", flying at his tower prior to the explosions and fires.

Normal minds operating in a normal world then REASONABLY could assume phase 1 to be continuous with phase 2, the dreadful impacts blasting through the towers. But now let's be deliberately paranoid, doubt and question EVERYTHING, excercise a momentary excess of scrutiny here. Assume instead things are the opposite of 'normal' and the media and official versions are falsifications of a very different event.

What if the planes flew at their targets, yet never hit? Where did they go (this is Ed's question in an earlier post)? I don't know. But to find the answer we must apply the magician's principle of sleight of hand. Can it be done, make an airplane dissappear in flight? Would be one hell of a big trick, requiring nation state recources and some help from David Copperfield smiley or the likes of him.

This is speculation, conjecture, hypothesis naturally. I think it can be done, at least in the eyes of a surprised/dismayed New York public, and TV viewers the world over. (We are inclined to see what we normally EXPECT to see in a normal world.)

Taking this to outer limits: if true this changes a purely horrific terrorist strike (which imo it really was) to a secret rescue mission (US intent: to save as many as possible) and something more. There's a reason why these buildings had to fall, be SEEN falling by the whole world, riveting the attention of everyone with a telly.

Our eyes were on the WTC. In magic it is called misdirection.. while we all looked, something else (BIG!) happened that we missed.


purr (please note where I used the word "speculation" cheesy !!)
« Last Edit: May 27th, 2014, 10:04am by purr » User IP Logged

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #166 on: May 27th, 2014, 11:17am »

Does it really matter what building got hit, if any form of fakery could be proved on any one of them then the whole thing is fake, my eyes told me an aircraft hit the building but as Purr states what the eye sees is not always what happened. I have tried finding data on the debris and any injuries from it and have drawn a blank. Now any explosion has a shockwave and that shockwave would be enough to force out the other side people and furniture still complete so where is it all, maybe you could enlighten us DrWU or Hal as you seem to know the full story.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #167 on: May 27th, 2014, 12:43pm »

on May 27th, 2014, 11:17am, hyundisonata wrote:
if any form of fakery could be proved on any one of them then the whole thing is fake, my eyes told me an aircraft hit the building but as Purr states what the eye sees is not always what happened.

Then should we apply that same logic to UFO sightings? What people thought they saw they did not because someone says so? If one part of a tale (Billy Meier for instance) is shown fake then throw it all out? Looks like a huge double standard here.

It is boggling my mind that people think that every witness that saw a plane hit the tower imagined it or were fooled by misdirection. I don't get it. People saw the plane, followed it (one?) up to a point, did not see them hit the tower then later assumed they did because of all the fake videos? What about all the people and cameras focused on the towers who saw it? They were fooled too? Are there reports of people seeing planes come and go, video them, etc.? Credible reports or videos of the tower showing no hit? Unbelievable. rolleyes
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #168 on: May 27th, 2014, 1:17pm »

WU I wont need your expertise as I think this link explains a lot even though it is not the question I asked. http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/04/01/911victims/ no doubt the link will get a good bashing for conspiracy but it does raise interesting points and asks logical questions that apparently are not being answered. What I also noticed was this link http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/02/part_of_the_conspiracy.html now like most I watched the news on BBC and accepted what was shown was genuine but clearly there is a large question mark over the footage shown that backs up Purrs statement that what we see might not be what happened . now clearly again there is questions that do not have viable answers so repeating them until a viable answer is achieved has to be the course to follow if at least out of decency and respect for those dead and their surviving families who have the right to know exactly who murdered their loved ones.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #169 on: May 27th, 2014, 1:34pm »

I cant see your logic in comparing UFO incidents with a group attack on one day in one area, the subject was brought up that it was a possibility that it was not an aircraft and as I never gave it any thought and accepted the news report at the time I am entitled to question that report , this does not mean the conspiracies are correct or that I believe them , it means that there is doubt .and yes that doubt also incorporates UFO stories that indicates not all are true but also not all are fake so where does the double standards come into play?. We all know that corruption and lies happens in government and we all know media can make mistakes and has been used for propaganda so why should we take them at face value surely the logical thing is to question.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #170 on: May 27th, 2014, 1:45pm »

This raises another question, my son bought all the newspapers published the following day and stored them safely away and still has these newspapers. Now if someone who was not connected to the incident realized that this was a major event and stored information relating to the incident then surely you would expect the government and media to keep a meticulous record of this event yet we are led to believe they just destroyed it all, this alone in its self warrants questioning.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #171 on: May 27th, 2014, 1:59pm »

GHOST ~ THAT IS INDEED A LOGICAL WAY TO VIEW THE UFOLOGICAL MYSTERY ~ THAT CONTRASTING LOGIC YOU HAVE ~ grin ~ WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE GOOSE IS GOOD FOR THE...WELL YOU KNOW wink

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #172 on: May 27th, 2014, 2:03pm »

An interesting read.

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/911NutPhysics1.HTM
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #173 on: May 27th, 2014, 2:15pm »

My logic is simple. A group of people say they saw a UFO, have pictures and videos. A skeptic says they did not, they are mistaken, the pictures are faked and some analysis provided. The skeptic gets raked over the coals for not believing and suggesting they were somehow fooled or are lying. Is this much different then what this no plane theory is suggesting of all the witnesses and recorded material of the tower hit?

There is doubt and then there is unreasonable doubt. Anyway, until I see a logical explanation with something to really back it up that the thousands of eyes and hundreds of cameras in the hands of those independently watching those towers burn did not see and record a plane hitting them, the no plane theory is fiction. As I mentioned before any thing can be nit picked to death and occurrences can be cherry picked to suit any theory regardless how far out they may be. The world and people are not perfect and sometimes there are no real answers. At some point there needs to be a distinction made between what is probable and what is a far fetched non-supported speculation. My focus is primarily on the no plane theory. The no plane theory, if true, needs to stand on it's own evidence and not be accepted because there is mistrust in other aspects of this event.

Regarding closure for families who lost loved ones in the towers, planes, etc., it seems to me a lot of the very vocal groups do not necessarily have their interests foremost.

At this point it is probably best for me to bow out of this topic as others have.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #174 on: May 27th, 2014, 2:24pm »

Dan thatís a good explanation of the material going down so explains a lot but that leaves my original question and that is what happened to the material that went outwards?
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #175 on: May 27th, 2014, 2:36pm »

Thanks for clarifying that ED point taken, so what is your view on the BBC reporting the building being collapsed half an hour before it fell. As stated I remember watching this on the BBC news and never even noticed the mistake as like others we where too busy discussing what was happening, in fact my neighbor rushed over and told me to switch on the TV as America had a nuclear strike so the mindset at the time was confused and engrossed in the photos and not the words.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #176 on: May 27th, 2014, 3:00pm »

on May 27th, 2014, 2:24pm, hyundisonata wrote:
Dan thatís a good explanation of the material going down so explains a lot but that leaves my original question and that is what happened to the material that went outwards?


Here's something.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/police-remove-wreckage-9-11-plane-article-1.1332036
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #177 on: May 27th, 2014, 3:35pm »

That explains that Dan but it makes you wonder how many body parts if not complete bodies are still on say rooftops, this is not exactly a small item and if I was someone who lost a loved one then I would demand a full search of the area to see what else has been overlooked
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #178 on: May 27th, 2014, 6:21pm »

on May 27th, 2014, 3:35pm, hyundisonata wrote:
That explains that Dan but it makes you wonder how many body parts if not complete bodies are still on say rooftops, this is not exactly a small item and if I was someone who lost a loved one then I would demand a full search of the area to see what else has been overlooked


Hyundai I completely agree but with hundreds of thousands tons of debris it's hard to sift for micro-fragments of tissue or bone. They have found pieces of bones all over the place and probably will for years. It was a horrible act and waste of human lives. On that I think we all can agree. I even understand those who believe in the conspiracy but I don't think the government was responsible. If I did or it was ever proven I'd leave the country.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #179 on: May 28th, 2014, 01:40am »

on May 27th, 2014, 12:43pm, GhostofEd wrote:
Then should we apply that same logic to UFO sightings? What people thought they saw they did not because someone says so? If one part of a tale (Billy Meier for instance) is shown fake then throw it all out? Looks like a huge double standard here.

It is boggling my mind that people think that every witness that saw a plane hit the tower imagined it or were fooled by misdirection. I don't get it. People saw the plane, followed it (one?) up to a point, did not see them hit the tower then later assumed they did because of all the fake videos? What about all the people and cameras focused on the towers who saw it? They were fooled too? Are there reports of people seeing planes come and go, video them, etc.? Credible reports or videos of the tower showing no hit? Unbelievable. rolleyes


Mixed your up your apples and pears here, Ed imo. Whether one may extrapolate partial outcomes to a greater body of phenomena DEPENDS ON HOW INTERCONNECTED THEY ARE.

UFO sightings and alien experiences are an incredibly mixed bag, wide ranging in demography, locations and times. If one is genuine, this says little about others. One proven hoax cannot make all visitor reports a falsification.

But the 9/11 attacks present as a single, centrally organised terror plot against the US and its people. Hyund is correct, if just one is established as 'fake', every part of this plot must be similarly called into question.


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« Last Edit: May 28th, 2014, 01:40am by purr » User IP Logged

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