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 sticky  Author  Topic: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911  (Read 25219 times)
purr
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #180 on: May 28th, 2014, 01:44am »

on May 27th, 2014, 2:36pm, hyundisonata wrote:
Thanks for clarifying that ED point taken, so what is your view on the BBC reporting the building being collapsed half an hour before it fell. As stated I remember watching this on the BBC news and never even noticed the mistake as like others we where too busy discussing what was happening, in fact my neighbor rushed over and told me to switch on the TV as America had a nuclear strike so the mindset at the time was confused and engrossed in the photos and not the words.


At the very least it shows erroneous editing (=innocent mistake), at the outside (ranging into conspiracism) it indicates the entire event was staged, with an error in synchonized timing of its elements. ....Oops....!


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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #181 on: May 28th, 2014, 02:23am »

on May 27th, 2014, 2:25pm, Meliy wrote:
Purr,
If you're quite certain that the front of any ordinary airliner would be more damaged by the collision than the WTC airliners were, to the point where it must be a conspiracy,

Why not try an easier to do conspiracy like those particular airplanes being specially modified with heavy-duty fronts built for penetrating buildings?


Why not? Because there's nothing to gain by anyone from modifying an aircraft to the point where it may come out in more or less one piece the other side of an impacted building.

Simply: any conspiracy will have some goal. Depending on the party initiating, such goals will differ, but each of their plans will possess an intrinsic logic, one action leading to the next, and again to the next until that goal is achieved.

For instance. Terrorists, as one such party, can plan and execute a plot to fly airplanes into several high value/visibility US targets. Method: hijjack planes, fly at targets. Goals: maximum destruction and deaths, demoralize the American people. (Where planes end up then is irrelevant.)

Alternatively, executed as a US counter terrorist / disaster management / 'psy' operation, the unfolding events would require advance and detailed intelligence on the al Qaeda infiltration, so US operatives can (Method: ) take control of all the hijacked planes, prepare al targets including the three(!) WTC buildings to show simulated impacts, and pancake down as an apparent result. Then the real flights must be taken over by US agents, followed by the real passenger planes getting diverted, while impact simulations happen at the targets. Goals: minimizing number of American deaths, while creating a believable WTC (and other targets) impact and destruction event for the world to see. As well as an as yet undetermined psycholocal effect, changing our minds somehow. (Again: who cares where the simulated planes end up, no matter!)

smiley

Meliy, sorry for being a bit long-winded! My point is that the appearance (or reality) of planes coming out intact of an impacted building rationally serves no purpose to anyone. It could figure as a visual mistake in a simulated plane impact. Or as Ed and GForce say, maybe jetliners really can do that: fly through buildings.


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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #182 on: May 28th, 2014, 09:39am »

on May 28th, 2014, 02:23am, purr wrote:
Or as Ed and GForce say, maybe jetliners really can do that: fly through buildings.

purr



Hi Purr, I never said a plane could fly though a building. I don't think it did nor do I think the nosecone made it though intact. I think the plane impacted the building, penetrated into the building with the aid of inertia until the fuel takes explode which then would IMO propel the explosion and parts of the plane both forward and outward. I think IF any major parts of the plane survived it would be the parts in front of the tanks, parts of the wing or landing gear that could have been blasted out and away from the inferno. I don't think simulation of a disaster can prove anything because the simulations have no factual data to draw on IE what actually happened to the plane and the order and where it occurred in the building.

While you can take air speed, weight of plane, fuel and the specs for the tower and compose a simulation there is no way to prove it to be remotely accurate. The most accurate way to determine what happened is by watching the video's of the impact which of course to conspiracy theorists aren't real. So the choice is: Do you believe what you see on over a hundred video's or do you believe the simulations and conspiracy theories?

I will also say that it is import to respect the views of others regardless which side you believe. I have seem far too many conspiracy and debunking the conspiracy videos on youtube and I realize that no one is going to change the minds of the other side of the argument. The truth is whatever you want it to be and no argument or evidence will change that because conspiracies are born in the minds of those who truly believe.
« Last Edit: May 28th, 2014, 11:10am by GForce » User IP Logged

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #183 on: May 28th, 2014, 12:53pm »

on May 28th, 2014, 09:39am, GForce wrote:
Hi Purr, I never said a plane could fly though a building. I don't think it did nor do I think the nosecone made it though intact. I think the plane impacted the building, penetrated into the building with the aid of inertia until the fuel takes explode which then would IMO propel the explosion and parts of the plane both forward and outward. I think IF any major parts of the plane survived it would be the parts in front of the tanks, parts of the wing or landing gear that could have been blasted out and away from the inferno. I don't think simulation of a disaster can prove anything because the simulations have no factual data to draw on IE what actually happened to the plane and the order and where it occurred in the building.

While you can take air speed, weight of plane, fuel and the specs for the tower and compose a simulation there is no way to prove it to be remotely accurate. The most accurate way to determine what happened is by watching the video's of the impact which of course to conspiracy theorists aren't real. So the choice is: Do you believe what you see on over a hundred video's or do you believe the simulations and conspiracy theories?

I will also say that it is import to respect the views of others regardless which side you believe. I have seem far too many conspiracy and debunking the conspiracy videos on youtube and I realize that no one is going to change the minds of the other side of the argument. The truth is whatever you want it to be and no argument or evidence will change that because conspiracies are born in the minds of those who truly believe.


Hi GForce, I went back to the beginning of our conversation and indeed you did not say a plane can fly through a building. I STAND CORRECTED! The remark I had in mind actually was by LoneGunMan (it was the capital G's in both your usernames that caused the two of you to get muddled up in my old brain somehow smiley) in Reply # 119. By the way my comment was intended as humorous exaggeration of Ed's and your ahem LGM's position.

And to clamp down on further confusion, it was Ed referring to simulations of flight 175 impacting South Building (which he regretted not having acces to), not me. (I presented a hypothesis to Meliy where US government operators use high order technologies to simulate [read: fake] the 9/11 impacts at WTC.)

I agree on the need for mutual respect among different positions on this terrible subject. Also have seen it lacking in many television and internet debates. But because this concerns a terrorist attack involving civilian deaths in a 'friendly nation' (from Dutch perspective), I feel compelled to go the extra mile to find out what happened, who did it and why, in as much detail as possible.


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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #184 on: May 28th, 2014, 1:11pm »

on May 28th, 2014, 11:29am, Meliy wrote:
Purr,
Perhaps then your observation about the airplane making it through the building intact, is proof that the 'reality' we live in is an illusion like the matrix, that cause and effect are not always consistant and the most important thing is whether some particular outcome was pre-ordained as part of a 'plan' being orchestrated by unseen forces far more controlling than governments or politiicians.

Like you said, the third tower went down with no plane to hit it. While we could imagine a massive conspiracy of humans making it all happen, could it instead be that the towers falling was part of reality's 'script'?

Like many computer video games that 'cheat' by forcing simulated events and outcomes even when they make no sense.


I agree, with the caveat (as before) that we are contributing, participating actors in such 'matrix' reality.

Specifically, the terrorist team travelling to America, living there and taking flying classes, then separating to hijack passenger planes and directing them to designated targets, are vital elements in how these events unfolded towards their deadly conclusion. And the terrorists' team effort amounts to a conspiracy, regardless of how materially or matrix-like we choose to define our reality.

Likewise I tend to think that Building 7 fell to causes (either caused by a form of controlled demolition, or from the progressive fires started as the hijacked planes hit WTC 1 and 2), with human actions and decisionmaking very much in play.

We all might be 'playing' inside God's mind though...


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« Last Edit: May 28th, 2014, 1:16pm by purr » User IP Logged

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #185 on: May 28th, 2014, 2:25pm »

on May 28th, 2014, 09:39am, GForce wrote:


The truth is whatever you want it to be and no argument or evidence will change that because conspiracies are born in the minds of those who truly believe.


The truth is the truth....period and it's not what you want it to be. It's what truly happened.
Having said that to quote the Vorlons again: Truth is a 3 edged sword; My side, your side, and the truth.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #186 on: May 28th, 2014, 3:28pm »

on May 28th, 2014, 2:25pm, drwu23 wrote:
The truth is the truth....period and it's not what you want it to be. It's what truly happened.
Having said that to quote the Vorlons again: Truth is a 3 edged sword; My side, your side, and the truth.


I agree the truth is the truth except you will never convince someone who believes otherwise on a given subject. If someone believes something strong enough no amount of evidence will sway their belief. In case of 9-11 the conspiracy theories were out in a few days and snowballed until it reached an avalanche. While I see no conspiracy they are some smart people who believe in it.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #187 on: May 28th, 2014, 3:35pm »

on May 28th, 2014, 3:01pm, Meliy wrote:
Why not contact the television show 'Mythbusters' and see if they'd be willing to test how intact an airliner would be after going through a building.

They might be able to find some old retired jetliner, then arrange to have at least the front part of the plane towed down a track really fast then smashed through some walls. Sounds like the kind of thing they'd love to do, lots of destruction.


I don't think you can simulate the crash even with a retired jet liner. At best you could only do it on a small scale with a model or drone. Substitutions of materials would have to be made and once you do that then no one would take the results seriously.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #188 on: May 28th, 2014, 7:44pm »

on May 28th, 2014, 3:28pm, GForce wrote:
I agree the truth is the truth except you will never convince someone who believes otherwise on a given subject. If someone believes something strong enough no amount of evidence will sway their belief. In case of 9-11 the conspiracy theories were out in a few days and snowballed until it reached an avalanche. While I see no conspiracy they are some smart people who believe in it.


I totally agree with you there.
Some people tend to like conspiracies in general and they really don't need much to believe in one.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #189 on: May 29th, 2014, 9:40pm »

on May 28th, 2014, 7:44pm, drwu23 wrote:
I totally agree with you there.
Some people tend to like conspiracies in general and they really don't need much to believe in one.


There seems to be widespread logical fallacy in that if every minute detail is not completely explained to the nth degree then the entire explanation is false. This is, of course, poor thinking skills and is a disservice to all investigations.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #190 on: May 29th, 2014, 10:16pm »

Perhaps of interest to some:

Ex-CIA Pilot Gives Sworn Testimony That No Planes Hit The Twin Towers

But proceed with caution. The problem with consulting with members of the intelligence community for information is that we are consulting with members of the intelligence community for information. The ex-CIA pilot in question is long time member of the UFO community John Lear, and he offers no proof of a cover-up, only opinions. No stranger to conspiracy circles, Lear's work with the CIA can be demonstrated, among other circumstances, with his involvement in the investigation of the JFK assassination (press F3 on your keyboard to conduct a search of the doc):

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/cia_testimony/pdf/Goodpasture_4-23-98.pdf

Interesting chains of circumstances, whatever they may ultimately indicate.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #191 on: May 30th, 2014, 06:50am »

This link raises some interesting points do you know if itís already been dissected to death. http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/26qjum/list_of_problems_and_contradictions_with_the_911/

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #192 on: May 30th, 2014, 08:48am »

It was aliens who projected holographic images of planes and they worked in conjunction with an evil gubbermint cabal (known only as THEM) to destroy these buildings so they could start wars and control all the people of the planet once they bring back the transistor radio.
I have no proof and this is just my opinion but it's the truth.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #193 on: May 30th, 2014, 09:05am »

on May 29th, 2014, 10:16pm, jjflash wrote:
Perhaps of interest to some:

Ex-CIA Pilot Gives Sworn Testimony That No Planes Hit The Twin Towers

But proceed with caution. The problem with consulting with members of the intelligence community for information is that we are consulting with members of the intelligence community for information. The ex-CIA pilot in question is long time member of the UFO community John Lear, and he offers no proof of a cover-up, only opinions. No stranger to conspiracy circles, Lear's work with the CIA can be demonstrated, among other circumstances, with his involvement in the investigation of the JFK assassination (press F3 on your keyboard to conduct a search of the doc):

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/cia_testimony/pdf/Goodpasture_4-23-98.pdf

Interesting chains of circumstances, whatever they may ultimately indicate.


Sworn testimony does not have to be factual. It only means the person believes what he is saying. I have watched many of Mr. Lear's you-tube videos and he doesn't believe planes hit the building, he believes in a massive conspiracy. Where John Lear is concerned you either believe he is all knowing or just PLANE nuts. Yes that was a play on words.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #194 on: May 30th, 2014, 11:11am »

Raises hand in back of class,Im opting for hes nuts.I SAW the plane hit the second tower.I was making breakfast for my husband when I heard on the radio that a small plane had hit the towers.I turned on the t.v. and watched as the second plane hit the towers,its a sight Ill never forget.
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