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 sticky  Author  Topic: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911  (Read 29053 times)
GForce
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #195 on: May 30th, 2014, 1:33pm »

on May 30th, 2014, 11:11am, carolnistri wrote:
Raises hand in back of class,Im opting for hes nuts.I SAW the plane hit the second tower.I was making breakfast for my husband when I heard on the radio that a small plane had hit the towers.I turned on the t.v. and watched as the second plane hit the towers,its a sight Ill never forget.


Hi Carol, I had just walked into the house from playing tennis and joined the coverage after the first plane had hit but did see the second one. Needless to say I watched the coverage all day.

As for this thread I'm sure some have noticed that I disagree with my friends and fellow mods on what happened on 9-11 but in no way do I take their opposite opinion to mine nor should they take mine personal. I don't think they do. I certainly don't. First of all we are all members first with our own opinions then moderators. Being a moderator with an opinion doesn't mean members can't challenge us on beliefs. Gods know Hal, drwu, alvaro Hyundai and others will point out the flaws in our arguments and don't need an invitation. grin My point is simply the best forums have open debate and I do welcome that. For the record we have a John Lear who is a non posting member. Don't know if it's THE John Lear but since I mentioned him in an earlier post I thought I'd mention it.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #196 on: May 30th, 2014, 1:40pm »

In my opinion, we would be wise to accurately identify players and their actions rather than quickly jumping to motives. The former can be objectively inventoried while the latter require subjective interpretation. Please allow me to explain.

I am not suggesting the statements of Lear should be taken seriously. I am suggesting they are potentially relevant in and of themselves due to his background.

Similarly, retired General Albert Stubblebine is a raging conspiracy theorist who speaks out against his former employer concerning such issues as 911, mind control and what he describes as a plan carried out by the global elite to execute a high percentage of the human race and enslave the remainder. Stub was no low-level errand boy; he was credited with redesigning the entire intelligence structure of the US Army. He now operates the Natural Solutions Foundation where you can read his conspiracy theories co-authored with his wife, Dr. Rima Laibow.

As is the case with Lear, Stubblebine and Laibow are experienced members of the UFO community. As a matter of fact, Laibow authored the paper of which hyundisonata posted a link in the opening post of another thread (click on link to view Laibow's paper):

on May 26th, 2014, 06:23am, hyundisonata wrote:
This is an important question as the skeptic constantly uses this line of evidence in feebly attempting to demonstrate the abductee is suffering mental health issues, I personally feel it to be detrimental to the abductees health as aliens, UFO and abduction are not accepted as reality by this doctrine and the few that have acknowledged this as a possible reality have suffered for stating this fact. Now even if the psychiatrist believed your story they would have to find an answer that will keep their peers content in other words fear of loosing their job, credibility etc would govern their answer to the abductees problems and not the well being of the abductees, in fact you could claim the psychiatrist is suffering one of many mental health issues associated with the emotion fear? When it comes to abduction not even the psychiatrist can say if it is real or not they can only assume. Now psychiatry hasnít a good history that has treated patents as lab rats being trained, bullied into accepting their way of how things should be by using force such as drugs, electrosis, lobotomy, depravation etc yet youíre expected to believe them of high moral standing. So letís start the ball rolling, this link is an excellent paper on the subject so a good starting point. http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc7.htm


So my point here is that the fact that members of the intelligence community support and spread conspiracy theories is relevant in and of itself, regardless of the accuracy of the claims. I interpret we would be wise to realize the extents such people shape public opinion, as well as the extents we seem to promote their work based on whether or not it supports our own opinion.

The motives they (or their employers) may have for influencing our opinions are different issues. While relevant, the motives are separate issues and I think we should first realize the extents the intel community is involved in both flaming and suppressing discussion of conspiracies.

Recommended further reading:

Influence of the Intelligence Community in Ufology
« Last Edit: May 30th, 2014, 2:00pm by jjflash » User IP Logged

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #197 on: May 30th, 2014, 1:58pm »

on May 30th, 2014, 1:40pm, jjflash wrote:
In my opinion, we would be wise to accurately identify players and their actions rather than quickly jumping to motives. The former can be objectively inventoried while the latter require subjective interpretation. Please allow me to explain.

I am not suggesting the statements of Lear should be taken seriously. I am suggesting they are potentially relevant in and of themselves due to his background.

Similarly, retired General Albert Stubblebine is a raging conspiracy theorist who speaks out against his former employer concerning such issues as 911, mind control and what he describes as a plan carried out by the global elite to execute a high percentage of the human race and enslave the remainder. Stub was no low-level errand boy; he was credited with redesigning the entire intelligence structure of the US Army. He now operates the Natural Solutions Foundation where you can read his conspiracy theories co-authored with his wife, Dr. Rima Laibow.

As is the case with Lear, Stubblebine and Laibow are experienced members of the UFO community. As a matter of fact, Laibow authored the paper of which hyundisonata posted a link in the opening post of another thread:



So my point here is that the fact that members of the intelligence community support and spread conspiracy theories is relevant in and of itself, regardless of the accuracy of the claims. I interpret we would be wise to realize the extents such people shape public opinion.

The motives they (or their employers) may have for doing so are different issues. While relevant, the motives are separate issues and I think we should first realize the extents the intel community is involved in both flaming and suppressing discussion of conspiracies.

Recommended further reading:

Influence of the Intelligence Community in Ufology


JJ, I don't disagree with you however credibility does come into play. You have to consider the source and their views on a given topic. Unsubstantiated claims do affect credibility of a witness. You cannot distinguish the views of John Lear the pilot from John Lear conspiracy theorist and Internet sensation. We as forum members can believe his views or not but that's in the court of public opinion. In a court of law it's completely different where evidence and credibility are paramount.
« Last Edit: May 30th, 2014, 2:03pm by GForce » User IP Logged

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #198 on: May 30th, 2014, 2:01pm »

on May 30th, 2014, 1:58pm, GForce wrote:
JJ, I don't disagree with you however credibility does come into play. You have to consider the source and their views on a given topic. Unsubstantiated claims do affect credibility of a witness. You cannot distinguish the views of John Lear the pilot from John Lear conspiracy theorist and Internet sensation. We as forum members can believe his views or not but that's in the court of public opinion. In a court of law it's completely different where evidence and credibility is paramount.


I don't think you understand my point, GForce, but that's okay.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #199 on: May 30th, 2014, 2:12pm »

on May 30th, 2014, 2:01pm, jjflash wrote:
I don't think you understand my point, GForce, but that's okay.


jjflash Quote:
So my point here is that the fact that members of the intelligence community support and spread conspiracy theories is relevant in and of itself, regardless of the accuracy of the claims. I interpret we would be wise to realize the extents such people shape public opinion, as well as the extents we seem to promote their work based on whether or not it supports our own opinion.



The motives they (or their employers) may have for influencing our opinions are different issues. While relevant, the motives are separate issues and I think we should first realize the extents the intel community is involved in both flaming and suppressing discussion of conspiracies.


JJ, I should have elaborated more than I did. I don't disagree with your point however I don't see great evidence of them trying to suppress conspiracies. If they are then they're doing a poor job. I don't think there's any doubt that they try to spread false information and that some conspiracies could be used for cover.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #200 on: May 30th, 2014, 2:46pm »

on May 30th, 2014, 1:33pm, GForce wrote:
Hi Carol, I had just walked into the house from playing tennis and joined the coverage after the first plane had hit but did see the second one. Needless to say I watched the coverage all day.

As for this thread I'm sure some have noticed that I disagree with my friends and fellow mods on what happened on 9-11 but in no way do I take their opposite opinion to mine nor should they take mine personal. I don't think they do. I certainly don't. First of all we are all members first with our own opinions then moderators. Being a moderator with an opinion doesn't mean members can't challenge us on beliefs. Gods know Hal, drwu, alvaro Hyundai and others will point out the flaws in our arguments and don't need an invitation. grin My point is simply the best forums have open debate and I do welcome that. For the record we have a John Lear who is a non posting member. Don't know if it's THE John Lear but since I mentioned him in an earlier post I thought I'd mention it.


Dan,Im sorry if I sounded a little harsh,but when someone tiptoed into the form I was on at the time I saw red.It wasnt what he said so much as how he said it.Sorry,now Ive got to start dinner.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #201 on: May 30th, 2014, 3:01pm »

on May 30th, 2014, 2:46pm, carolnistri wrote:


Dan,Im sorry if I sounded a little harsh,but when someone tiptoed into the form I was on at the time I saw red.It wasnt what he said so much as how he said it.Sorry,now Ive got to start dinner.


You didn't sound harsh to me! Some people seem to know it all and aren't afraid to let you know how smart they think they are.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #202 on: Jun 2nd, 2014, 5:09pm »

on May 30th, 2014, 2:12pm, GForce wrote:
jjflash

JJ, I should have elaborated more than I did. I don't disagree with your point however I don't see great evidence of them trying to suppress conspiracies.


Perhaps I could have elaborated more as well, as, if clearly communicated, I am pretty sure you would not question that the intelligence community and agencies suppress conspiracy theories. Roswell, the Kennedys, MLK are but a few examples. The entire extraterrestrial hypothesis is founded on the possibility that the government is suppressing/covering up knowledge of an alien presence. I think we would all reasonably agree such circumstances are the case and whether or not we subscribe to any given conspiracy theory.

I would like to point out the extents that members of the intelligence community contradict one another, often while each claiming to be sharing important insider information. In some cases, such individuals directly worked together. Specific examples and related circumstances:

John Alexander, Contradictions and Unanswered Questions

Influence of the Intelligence Community in Ufology

To add insult to injury (and make the truth-seeking process all the more difficult), members of the UFO community frequently cherry pick the statements and perspectives of members of the IC based almost solely on if the statements support a cherished personal belief. In my opinion, much more attention should be given to this than is currently the case.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #203 on: Jun 3rd, 2014, 10:17am »

on Jun 2nd, 2014, 5:09pm, jjflash wrote:
Perhaps I could have elaborated more as well, as, if clearly communicated, I am pretty sure you would not question that the intelligence community and agencies suppress conspiracy theories. Roswell, the Kennedys, MLK are but a few examples. The entire extraterrestrial hypothesis is founded on the possibility that the government is suppressing/covering up knowledge of an alien presence. I think we would all reasonably agree such circumstances are the case and whether or not we subscribe to any given conspiracy theory.

I would like to point out the extents that members of the intelligence community contradict one another, often while each claiming to be sharing important insider information. In some cases, such individuals directly worked together. Specific examples and related circumstances:

John Alexander, Contradictions and Unanswered Questions

Influence of the Intelligence Community in Ufology

To add insult to injury (and make the truth-seeking process all the more difficult), members of the UFO community frequently cherry pick the statements and perspectives of members of the IC based almost solely on if the statements support a cherished personal belief. In my opinion, much more attention should be given to this than is currently the case.


Rather than suppress them I think it's more likely that they start them to add cover and confusion to the agendas they are truly involved in.
It's a well known fact that people like Richard Doty, an AFOSI agent, started several ufo scams and even caused the indirect death of one man. And he even admitted this eventually and he also worked with another man who was involved with the so-called Majestic 12 documents which casts doubt on their authenticity.
To me this is all about disinformation for whatever reason they need.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #204 on: Jun 3rd, 2014, 2:50pm »

on Jun 3rd, 2014, 10:17am, drwu23 wrote:
Rather than suppress them I think it's more likely that they start them to add cover and confusion to the agendas they are truly involved in.
It's a well known fact that people Doty, an AFOSI agent, started several ufo scams and even caused the indirect death of one man. And he even admitted this eventually and he also worked with another man who was involved with the so-called Majestic 12 documents which casts doubt on their authenticity.
To me this is all about disinformation for whatever reason they need.


Right. Thanks for expanding and elaborating on it.

Any way we choose to look at it, the same community (the IC) that tells us to ignore the conspiracy-minded fanatics simultaneously fans the conspiracy theories. I think a primary point would be that we learn to take all statements, whether by intelligence officers, researchers or witnesses, with a grain of salt until the substance of the statements can be verified.

The motives for disinforming global adversaries - and us in the process - changes from one specific circumstance to the next. However, a secondary point, in my opinion, is that members of the UFO community, often passionately intent on finding material to support their beliefs, tend to promote the statements and opinions of those in intelligence circles, sometimes without ever even knowing they are doing so.

A prime example recently happened right here in River City and as I previously pointed out in this thread: In another thread, hyundisonata cited the work of Dr. Rima Laibow, wife of career intel officer Gen. Bert Stubblebine, and, if I recall correctly, informed us it was an excellent paper, or some such description.

A YouTube search of 'Stubblebine 911' will provide many returns of his proclamations of why he thinks the circumstances were an inside job. Also and as I previously mentioned, more of his conspiracy theories co-authored with Laibow are available for viewing on their Natural Solutions Foundation website, which include a rich and elaborate mix of alarming circumstances ranging from accurate and reasonably possible to insultingly absurd (which, of course, is the working definition of disinformation).

In hyundi's defense, it requires more time and attention to learn who these people are and what they may be doing than most people are willing to invest. That's in all likelihood an intentional part of the scheme. 911 truthers, for instance, are probably largely unaware of Stub's long, questionable involvement with UFOs and the alien abduction community, while, in turn, those interested in ufology just want to quote Laibow and move on (without taking note of her involvement with hypnosis, extreme anti-gov perspectives and even an unsubstantiated claim she avoided an assassination attempt).

I think our overall lack of awareness of specific circumstances within the IC and their inner circles is important because, as professional researchers such as Annie Jacobsen aptly bring to our attention, the nature of the beast is deception. What's puzzling us is the nature of their game. I think we would be wise to give that more attention.

Thanks again for the comments.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #205 on: Jun 3rd, 2014, 3:06pm »

Good post JJ and your right we do not focus enough on the subject being debated, we all shoot of at a tangent from post to post adding our quick versed comment without any real research or end up in a punch up for some mundane comment or statement and yes I hold my hands up guilty as charged. SYS is a good example on how we should stick with our post and dig deep exposing all points of view no matter what side of the fence your on or even sitting on.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #206 on: Jun 3rd, 2014, 3:37pm »

on Jun 3rd, 2014, 2:50pm, jjflash wrote:
Right. Thanks for expanding and elaborating on it.

Any way we choose to look at it, the same community (the IC) that tells us to ignore the conspiracy-minded fanatics simultaneously fans the conspiracy theories. I think a primary point would be that we learn to take all statements, whether by intelligence officers, researchers or witnesses, with a grain of salt until the substance of the statements can be verified.

The motives for disinforming global adversaries - and us in the process - changes from one specific circumstance to the next. However, a secondary point, in my opinion, is that members of the UFO community, often passionately intent on finding material to support their beliefs, tend to promote the statements and opinions of those in intelligence circles, sometimes without ever even knowing they are doing so.

A prime example recently happened right here in River City and as I previously pointed out in this thread: In another thread, hyundisonata cited the work of Dr. Rima Laibow, wife of career intel officer Gen. Bert Stubblebine, and, if I recall correctly, informed us it was an excellent paper, or some such description.

A YouTube search of 'Stubblebine 911' will provide many returns of his proclamations of why he thinks the circumstances were an inside job. Also and as I previously mentioned, more of his conspiracy theories co-authored with Laibow are available for viewing on their Natural Solutions Foundation website, which include a rich and elaborate mix of alarming circumstances ranging from accurate and reasonably possible to insultingly absurd (which, of course, is the working definition of disinformation).

In hyundi's defense, it requires more time and attention to learn who these people are and what they may be doing than most people are willing to invest. That's in all likelihood an intentional part of the scheme. 911 truthers, for instance, are probably largely unaware of Stub's long, questionable involvement with UFOs and the alien abduction community, while, in turn, those interested in ufology just want to quote Laibow and move on (without taking note of her involvement with hypnosis, extreme anti-gov perspectives and even an unsubstantiated claim she avoided an assassination attempt).

I think our overall lack of awareness of specific circumstances within the IC and their inner circles is important because, as professional researchers such as Annie Jacobsen aptly bring to our attention, the nature of the beast is deception. What's puzzling us is the nature of their game. I think we would be wise to give that more attention.

Thanks again for the comments.


Very solid post and I agree with your comments.
As I have mentioned before books like Dr Vallee's Revelations and Pilkington's book Mirage Men show how the IC have played around in these waters for some time now. The question is why? Is this simply buisness as usual for them -practice- or is there another agenda?
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #207 on: Mar 15th, 2016, 12:48am »

The 911 conspiracy related to the review that America was in financial trouble.

The review of the occult experiments involve mind contact, mind control and influences of human choice.

The study of phenomena involved in the CIA initiative itself, for Russia had already gained evidence that mind contact was real and so was manipulation of personal choice.

To contact a human mind is to study the negative...for a human performing phenomena of spirit involves the negative when it is used as an attack or takeover of another human's mind.

Therefore a program to allow the condition to be active as a satellite broadcast would involve the condition of being personally contacted by an atmospheric body.....converted chemically in mind, changed mind and also choice.

This could only be achieved as an occult condition itself...the negative or spiritual attack.

This attack in modern life is by the UFO condition, a nuclear signal, that allows sound and information to be transmitted/interacted with the human life on a signal level not heard.....but caused to change.

Around the 911 buildings was evidence photographed of a manifesting nuclear signal....a UFO broadcast.

As the UFO belongs to nuclear orbital constants, it also belongs to metal fusion also. Is it any wonder to a human reviewing the condition of the building, that its structure as metallic bonds were weakened previously to the attack?

It could only be considered as a UFO condition caused by human applied technology using the signal also.

As the UFO condition is a transmitted message, and the contact used by the Government for secret initiatives, why else would a Government building be unusually attacked by some form of fall out involving a UFO signal (nuclear signal) as the atmosphere caused condition without any other evidence relating to the actual attack outcome?
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #208 on: Mar 26th, 2017, 3:36pm »

Right here is my take on all 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Yes there probably was a conspiracy but not in the way most conspiracy theorist's believe.
The security organizations had an idea who was planning something and when.
But did nothing about it because the white house wanted an excuse to invade the eventual country America did.
Iraq.
But it went wrong because they didn't expect the terrorist attack to be as big as it was
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