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 sticky  Author  Topic: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911  (Read 23637 times)
FlatEarth
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #60 on: Aug 18th, 2013, 9:47pm »

on Aug 18th, 2013, 8:52pm, GhostofTheVoice wrote:
Picture the scene.......suddenly out of nowhere screams a large jetliner at near zero feet rushing by at (as claimed by official story) over 500knots and carefully cruises just above the lawn, even the underhang of the two massive engines do not ripple the grass and BANG, into the building. We are to accept these individuals (stooges) managed in that few seconds identify an aircraft, its type, its color, the logo, everything in that WHIZZ BANG few seconds? Nope I do not buy it. For so many reasons. Tell you what, IF one out of the many which do exist, vids showing clearly a plane slamming into the building we will all close the case. THEN and ONLY then. Show the proof, not some alleged witnesses account. There are many well put together documentaries which clearly show how impossible it would have been. Try checking out the pilots for 9/11 truth website. They after all are the flight professionals.

Nobody in the video I posted claimed to see much detail about the plane, only that it hit the Pentagon. One person said it was a jumbo jet. Some of the debris outside of the building had graphics on them.
The simulation shows how that single frame from the security video captured the tail and the smoking engine. It's pretty convincing stuff, and impossible to explain as anything but a large plane about to impact the Pentagon.
All the conspiracy folks do is theorize how difficult or impossible it would be to do this. The fact is that it was done, there were several witnesses that saw it happen, and the evidence such as the downed light poles and damaged transformer are consistent with a large plane flying at low altitude. If those passengers on the fourth hijacked plane hadn't fought back, there would have been another impact in D.C.. Case closed.

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FlatEarth
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #61 on: Aug 18th, 2013, 9:50pm »

on Aug 18th, 2013, 9:42pm, murnut wrote:
What ever the real truth is...I don't know.

What I do know is the official story is not the truth.

Follow the money...and a lot of money has been made on endless wars

Oh, you KNOW that, do you? You obviously THINK that, but that's all you can say with certainty.

Flat
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GhostofTheVoice
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #62 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 09:40am »

That security video of few frames do not unfortunately show a full size jetliner, the size and scale is wrong, if anything it depicts(with a bit of imagination) a small plane such as small business plane. Check the scale conveniently placed for you believers on a number of sites. The scale is wrong if you check. I have no problem accepting planes hit tower 1 and 2 but totally have to state with logic and common sense, that no plane such as a jetliner hit the pentagon, nor crashed in shanksville.
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FlatEarth
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #63 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 10:45am »

on Aug 19th, 2013, 09:40am, GhostofTheVoice wrote:
That security video of few frames do not unfortunately show a full size jetliner, the size and scale is wrong, if anything it depicts(with a bit of imagination) a small plane such as small business plane. Check the scale conveniently placed for you believers on a number of sites. The scale is wrong if you check. I have no problem accepting planes hit tower 1 and 2 but totally have to state with logic and common sense, that no plane such as a jetliner hit the pentagon, nor crashed in shanksville.

It's unfortunate that the security video is so poor, but it wasn't designed to record such a high speed event. The single frame that shows the tail of the plane does show that it was a large plane, as overlaid with the simulation. As you may know, the objects depicted in the simulation are created to represent the size and shape of the actual objects. When the path of the airliner (determined by the downed light poles) was determined, it sets the distance to the camera and therefore the proper size in perspective. There is no fudging this, as the view in the simulation moves smoothly to the top view. It's all bound by mathematics; size, shape, distance, vector, speed, perspective. It's very credible with no speculation.

The debris in the Pentagon was of a large plane that disintegrated on impact with a concrete structure. The only recognizable pieces were wheels, parts of the engines, and landing gear.

As for the Pennsylvania crash, there's so much evidence including real time phone calls from loved ones as to what happened. Perhaps if the passengers hadn't acted it would have been downed by the National Guard, but to claim it wasn't true is unsupportable speculation.

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #64 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 10:51am »

FlatEarth I agree that a plane hit the Pentagon. I think there's too many eyewitnesses. The one area that makes me pause is the fact there's little video evidence. I would think as tight as security is not to mention security cameras throughout the city that the plane would have been caught on more than one camera. I've heard that it was and the government hasn't released them.

While I'm not a big conspiracy buff it does smell a bit of a cover-up. Honestly I don't think we've been presented all the evidence.
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GhostofTheVoice
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #65 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 11:05am »

I have to disagree. The security vid frames do not show a large object but a very small one. The lightpoles business has been explained a number of times so will not waste time on those. The alleged debris showed very little in support of a jetliner, the alleged engine parts, what few of them remained actually were too small for that particular plane. Seats? I have seen no pics or vids of landing gear that actually represent that particular plane. You stubbornly hold on to a fairytale story told by the US Government. The facts not theories are at odds with the official story. 2 massive room sized engines would have impacted the outside of the building leaving marks, there were none. These engines would have either remained outside or embedded in the building, neither was the case. Those of us whom have researched 9/11 for many years have not fallen for the ridiculous explanations offered for various aspects of that day.

I recall that Tuesday, it was afternoon here in the UK. I sat at my computer when told there was a newsflash from the US regarding planes hitting the WTC. I switched my tv on and followed Skynews and BBC news all day right into the night. Like most I listened to the reporters and accepted all they stated. BUT some months later, into early 2002 as the unfolding official story rang alarm bells I began to look closer, deeper. From that point on I have researched that event, some 11 years now. Very many have.

I know many will not accept anything but the official story even when conflicting evidence is shown. Stubborn blinkered people whom refuse to accept that their officials were not totally truthful.

As for Shanksville, please, you really must get a grip on reality. A smouldering hole in the ground with no debris whatsoever, no bodies at all, nothing, zilch. As for the alleged phone calls LOL Please its been proven that other than airphones NO CELL PHONE calls were possible, proven fact. Those alleged nonsense calls were debunked by experts. See if the US did not add all these totally false events we might begin to accept events as told BUT as there are so many discrepancies and downright imposibilities we will always fight for the truth of 9/11.
As mentioned earlier, show us the videos that depict a plane hitting the Pentagon and we will leave it at that. Did you know that the building has its own array of security cameras roof mounted which would have shown anything approaching. The coverage is 360degrees. You will never ever convince anyone that the full official story is the true one. Logic, common sense and facts from professionals in all cases proves you are very wrong.

But I admire the way you feel you have to believe otherwise. One day all eyes will be opened. We will grin and say "we told you so".
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #66 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 11:07am »

OH DEAR...
NO QUESTION THE YEARS OF EXPERIENCE SHINES THROUGH WITH..."THE VOICES'S"... OBSERVATION...AND IF I MAY ADD SIR...
I REGRET VISITING THIS TOPIC AS MY UNDERSTANDING OF PHYSICS/METAL/METALLURGY...MUST BE DIFFERENT FROM OTHERS...MUCH LIKE WHAT IT TOOK TO MELT THOSE BEAMS AT THE TWIN TOWERS ...AND AV GAS BEING LABELED AS THE CULPRIT...WELL ...ANOTHER TOPIC ENTIRELY....NONETHELESS...I AM A PRIVATE PILOT AND SUCH MANEUVER WOULD BE TESTING ONES SKILLS EVEN IN A CESSNA 172...AT NORMAL OPERATION SPEED...MOREOVER A MULTI-TON BEHEMOTH..AT ALLEGEDLY 600 MPH +/- FINAL APPROACH...THE DISTANCE A PILOT WOULD HAVE TO TAKE TO LINE UP FOR SUCH WOULD BE CONSIDERABLE MUCH LESS PLOW A DISTINCT PATH OF DEBRIS...I'M A REASONABLE PILOT LANDING ON MULIPLE STRIPS INCLUDING GRASS...EACH LANDING...OR CONTROLLED STALL...TESTS ONES SKILL SET...BUT PILOTS WHOM KNOW...BEEN THERE DONE IT...MUCHLESS HAVE 29K HOURS IN THE LEFT SEAT SAY IT'S IMPOSSIBLE...JUST SAYIN IT WAS DONE DOESN'T PRECLUDE SUCH WAS DONE AS INITIALLY DESCRIBED...HAVING SAID THAT WITH ALL DUE RESPECT...ONE MAY JUST HAVE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE...BUT THE DISCUSSION CONTINUES...
NOT MANY THINGS ARE CAPABLE OF ESSENTIALLY VAPORIZING THE MULTIPLE COMPONENTS OF THIS ALLEGED CRAFT WHEREIN MANY PARTS WERE DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND EXCESSIVE TEMPERATURES..MUCHLESS....BODIES...WHERE DID IT ALL VANISH TO...

FURTHERMORE,THERE WERE WITNESSES WHOM WERE DISSUADED FROM COMING FORWARD...ONE IN PARTICULAR WALKED OUT OF THE HOLE FROM WHAT EVER PROJECTILE WAS USED...AND SHE...SAID THERE WAS NO PLANE DEBRIS...THIS WAS PRIOR TO THE COLLAPSE...
NOW IF ONE REALLY FOLLOWS THE MONEY...THE IMPACT SITE JUST HAPPENED TO COINCIDE WITH THE COMPUTER RECORDS WHICH WOULD'VE/COULD'VE UNRAVELED THE MISSING ...2 TRILLION ...DOLLARS WHICH VANISHED OR WAS UNACCOUNTABLE ONE DAY BEFORE 9...1...1...NOW IF SPECIAL OPS NEEDED SUCH FOR BLACK PROJECTS...SO BE IT...ONE JUST CONSIDERS HOW IT MAY HAVE BEEN PRESENTED COULD HAVE BEEN A TAD MORE THOUGHT OUT...CONSIDERING THE...BRAIN TRUST...WITHIN THE PENTAGON...
KINDA LIKE THIS WAS AN ADD ON TO A SENATE BILL..AHH...AHH... WAIT ONE MINUTE...WE'VE GOT THIS LINGERING PROBLEM AT "D.O.D" AND COULD THIS BE THE SOLUTION...TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE...WELL.ACTUALLY...FOUR BIRDS...TO COVER ... LOTS OF TERRITORY...

DID WE ADDRESS THAT ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL AND SECURE BUILDINGS IN THE WORLD WITH COUNTLESS SECURITY CAMERA VIEWS...NOT TO MENTION SECONDARY AND TERTIARY VIEWS FROM OUTSIDE/OUTLYING SOURCES...THAT ALL THE PUBLIC HAS TO CHEW ON IS A BRIEF SNIPPET...
THERE WILL BE THOSE WHOM REPEAT...REPEAT...REPEAT...QUESTIONING CONCLUSIONS WHICH LIMIT ONES PONDERING INTO THE REALITY OF WHAT OCCURED...THEY ARE CERTAINLY ENTITLED TO THEIR STANCE/POSITION...BUT OTHERS ARE FURTHER EXPECTED TO USE ONES BRAIN OTHER THAN A HAT RACK AND ASSESS,ANALYZE, PRIOR TO ANY HARD AND FAST CONCLUSION...
ONE CONCLUSION IS DERIVED FROM THE..."TRUST US" ...CAMP WHEREIN OTHERS TEND TO TRUST THEIR KNOWLEDGE...IMHO...

SHALOM...ZETAR
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GhostofTheVoice
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #67 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 11:09am »

One last thing. That plane had a carbon based nose, the fuselage is like an aluminium tube, easily disintegrated as were the wings and tail section. But the Engines, wheels and row upon row of seats would in part survive. As in every single plane crash in history there have always been debris, and bodies. The official story that the plane was making a 330degree turn and coming in at ground level at 500+knots has been proven impossible by not only professional pilots but the makers of the plane and the engines. At ground level that plane COULD NOT attain over 500knots speed. Physically impossible.
« Last Edit: Aug 19th, 2013, 11:13am by GhostofTheVoice » User IP Logged

spacemaverick
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #68 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 1:41pm »

I definitely go with the Pilots for 9/11 truth. These are the professionals that can deal with what is and is not possible with an aircraft of that size. Eyewitness accounts can vary widely. I am not a pilot so I cannot address the issue of what it was that hit the Pentagon. However in the 1980's I did machine landing gears for various aircraft and they do not disintegrate easily. Those parts are designed to withstand heavy forces both horizontally and vertically in order for the aircraft to land without it's landing gear breaking off.

Professional pilots have said that the airliner making that 330 degree turn is even hard to do for professional pilots let alone those who might have only a few hours of flying a large jetliner.

1983 to 1986 I was a munitions maintenance tech for USAF and in the service US Army I was in Air Defense and we were taught how explosives (missiles and the like bring down aircraft and have personally witnessed what the burning of jet fuel looks like. In my opinion it looked like a high order explosion initially and then the burning of some fuel. I witnessed 2 crashes while I was in Germany and the fuel was a deep red at first and then really black smoke. I would say maybe the airliner could have been a smaller one but then how does any airliner make a small hole into the other rings?

My experiences with law enforcement the past 20 years (retired now) find that eyewitness testimony is not the best testimony at all. Video is the best testimony and we have only one video with which to work.

So basically all we can really do is speculate unless someone comes up with another video. I even have doubts about the Pennsylvania crash because of 2 debris fields miles apart which speaks to a shootdown but that's another subject. So we are back to square one where there are still many many questions.
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FlatEarth
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #69 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 2:54pm »

Here are a couple of sites that explain better than I can why the 9/11 conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.

Believe what you will, but rational thought always trumps unsupported speculation. Note that an amateur pilot hit the Pentagon 3 out of 3 times in a simulator. There's something called "ground effect" that comes into play when flying very close to the ground. Air pressure builds under the plane's wings and actually inhibits it from touching down, no doubt helping the hijacker to pull off the low level approach.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp


https://sites.google.com/site/911guide/pentagon
Here are excerpts from the above link:

Claim: The hole in Pentagon is too small to be caused by a Plane.

In Brief: When American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior wall, Ring E, it created a hole approximately 75 ft. wide, according to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report. The exterior facade collapsed a little less than 40 minutes after impact, but ASCE based its measurements of the original hole on the number of first-floor support columns that were destroyed or damaged. Computer simulations confirmed the findings. Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building.

Claim: How could the passengers be identified if the plane was so destroyed? / There were no passengers.

In Brief: What some experts have called "the most comprehensive forensic investigation in U.S. history" ended Nov. 16 with the identification of 184 of the 189 who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon.

Teams of forensic scientists, under the direction of Demris Lee, technical leader of the Nuclear DNA Section, took over the difficult chore of generating a DNA profile of the victims. Their work included not only the Pentagon crash victims, but the victims of the Somerset County crash as well. Every one of the organization's 102 DNA analysts, sample processors, logistics staff, and administrative personnel were involved -- from collecting, tracking, analyzing DNA samples, and gathering and logging DNA reference material to preparing DNA reports. For 18 days following the terrorist attacks, AFDIL employees worked on 12-hour shifts, seven days a week to meet the mission requirements.

There were the bodies and passengers we are told to. Or the 102 analysts are in on the conspiracy. Which one is more likely?

Claim: The Flight 77 Flight Data Recorder data is faked.

In Brief: Simply. It is not faked. The analysis claiming it's fake do not take into account everything needed. The data verifies everything about plane hitting the Pentagon.

Why would they leave fake information to be found at the Pentagon, then release it to the public for scrutiny? If the FDR data is real, the plane hit Pentagon. If it's faked, why would they fake it not to show a hit?

Claim: Hani Hanjour could not pilot the plane into the Pentagon, making such difficult turns.

In Brief: Hani Hanjour's flying was hardly the show-quality demonstration often described. The manoeuvres required of the hijackers were within their capabilities, they were performed without any degree of finesse and resulted in damage to the targets only after desperate overmanoeuvring of the planes. Landing a plane is difficult. Flying it into something is easier.

An amateur pilot in Holland was able to hit Pentagon 3/3 times, when he tried it with a simulator. Hanjour had enough skills to fly a plane. He didn't have to land.


I don't expect conspiracy believers to read any of this. It's obvious you didn't even watch the videos. rolleyes It's really aimed at those looking for a reasoned response to the claims of a conspiracy.
Now, if you want to talk about the JFK assassination, I'd be more likely to agree with you. wink

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #70 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 3:27pm »

Here's an interesting video concerning eyewitnesses. Granted it's anti conspiracy theory but interesting. Maybe they're all plants and work for the government but they do claim to be eyewitnesses. No I don't trust Uncle Sam so view it for what it is...a biased video.

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GhostofTheVoice
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #71 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 3:39pm »

So, the blackbox indicated that the plane's speed was in excess of 500knots? as thats IMPOSSIBLE from the mouths of professionals, pilots, manufacturers of plane and engines I think that throws a big spanner into the works. If that story is impossible its fair to say the rest is fabrication too. No matter what fancy wording is used to explain that an incompetant amateur pilot managed to fly inches above the ground straight into the building..........as again professionals could not so there is no way with all the luck in the World the hijacker managed it.

This debate will rage on and on, no one can prove or disprove, literally. Until clear authentic vids are shown many of us will not accept the absurd notion of a jetliner hitting the Pentagon.
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GhostofTheVoice
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #72 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 3:41pm »

And in my 11 year research into 9/11 I've read all there is available, seen all pics and vids so that comment does not hold. You do not have to be a conspiracy nut to be awake enough to not swallow the US Government hogwash about 9/11. Logical free thinking people in their millions have done just the same as I.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #73 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 3:53pm »

GEEZ...I HATE TO TAKE THE OLIVE OUT OF THE MARTINI...BUT THE RARE CASES OF INABILITY TO FIND EVIDENCIARY..."BLACK BOXS"...IS USUALLY AT SEA...AND THEN ...THEY ARE FOUND...OCCASIONALLY...
BOTH BLACK BOXES WERE DESTROYED...IF I RECALL...HOW UNUSUAL IS THAT...OR WHAT A COINCIDENCE...

FLAT...I GET WHERE YOUR COMING FROM BUT RESPECTFULLY MUST TACK MY BOAT ACCORDING TO EVIDENCE...AND IN THIS CASE...A LACK THEREOF...

SHALOM...Z
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #74 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 4:05pm »

on Aug 19th, 2013, 3:41pm, GhostofTheVoice wrote:
And in my 11 year research into 9/11 I've read all there is available, seen all pics and vids so that comment does not hold. You do not have to be a conspiracy nut to be awake enough to not swallow the US Government hogwash about 9/11. Logical free thinking people in their millions have done just the same as I.


Not that you need my support, GhostofTheVoice, but my leanings too, and quite thoughtfully, rationally, are that no plane hit any building on 9/11.

I'm not a so called truther, by the way. Just someone who is curious about the evidence, willing to read and consider.


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