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 sticky  Author  Topic: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911  (Read 29129 times)
GForce
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #75 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 4:09pm »

on Aug 19th, 2013, 3:41pm, GhostofTheVoice wrote:
And in my 11 year research into 9/11 I've read all there is available, seen all pics and vids so that comment does not hold. You do not have to be a conspiracy nut to be awake enough to not swallow the US Government hogwash about 9/11. Logical free thinking people in their millions have done just the same as I.


Given the backdrop of the NSA lies I agree about not believing anything coming from the government on any subject matter. However unless eyewitnesses can be shown to be plants or liars it is hard to discount their accounts of the day.

What I find hard to believe is the lack of other videos. As many security cameras in the city surely some of them would have caught the plane, missile or whatever hit the Pentagon. The same holds true for tourists and videos. Also I'm sure they were hundreds if not thousands of crime scene photos that haven't been released that could settle the debate. So yes it does smell fishy on several fronts.

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #76 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 4:29pm »

Reading through the comments, I would be inclined to point out that extreme and sweeping theories require factual support to be accepted. Each are free to believe whatever they choose, but if they expect others to share their lines of reasoning and subsequent beliefs, conclusive evidence is required. Suggesting others are low in intelligence and naive for requiring facts in order to share the belief and draw a conclusion is poor debate protocol. It does nothing to support one's argument and, if anything, detracts from their point of view.

The same point can and should be made concerning the extraterrestrial hypothesis. I am indeed inclined to notice that those who tend to support the ETH are not near as discriminating in their demands for evidence of aliens as they seem to be in requiring proof that a plane impacted the Pentagon. Maybe the plane explanation would look better if Friedman or Streiber said so?
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #77 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 5:02pm »

JJ,

WHAT AN ACUTE OBSERVATION AS WELL AS ASTUTE CONNECTION TO UFOLOGY...
PERSONALLY...I'LL NOT LOOSE SLEEP IF ONE MAY NOT ACCEPT THE FRAGMENTS OF EVIDENCE ...MOREOVER...THE LACK THEREOF... AND YES YOUR ANALOGY WITH THE UFOLOGICAL ENDEAVOR IS HITTING THE NAIL ON THE HEAD...
WE HAVE AS MUCH EVIDENCE THE THIS TOPIC AS MANY UFO SIGHTINGS...HAVING SAID THAT...SOME WITNESSES ARE MORE CREDIBLE THAN OTHERS...WITH RESPECT TO ONE FEMALE WHOM WALKED OUT OF THE PENTAGON POST IMPACT...TO..."UNE PAS EXEMPLE"...PILOTS IN THE ALASKA SIGHTING...I COULD GO ON...
IF ...TRUSTS US...WE HAVE YOUR BEST INTEREST AT SUITS ONES PERSONA...SO BE IT...I'VE LEARNED TO TRUST MYSELF AND OTHER
EXPERTS....RESPECTFULLY...

SHALOM...Z

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #78 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 5:19pm »

on Aug 19th, 2013, 10:51am, GForce wrote:
FlatEarth I agree that a plane hit the Pentagon. I think there's too many eyewitnesses. The one area that makes me pause is the fact there's little video evidence. I would think as tight as security is not to mention security cameras throughout the city that the plane would have been caught on more than one camera. I've heard that it was and the government hasn't released them.

While I'm not a big conspiracy buff it does smell a bit of a cover-up. Honestly I don't think we've been presented all the evidence.

I was also surprised at the lack of videos, GF, and perhaps they are holding some evidence back. I always try to put myself in the chair of responsibility and think about what I would do. Revealing videos would tell a lot about the security system that's in place at the Pentagon, and make it easier for whoever might want to breach that security. That would be enough for me to hold that info back, especially when there is no need to prove who the perpetrators were.

Flat
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FlatEarth
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #79 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 6:02pm »

on Aug 19th, 2013, 11:05am, GhostofTheVoice wrote:
I have to disagree. The security vid frames do not show a large object but a very small one. The lightpoles business has been explained a number of times so will not waste time on those. The alleged debris showed very little in support of a jetliner, the alleged engine parts, what few of them remained actually were too small for that particular plane. Seats? I have seen no pics or vids of landing gear that actually represent that particular plane. You stubbornly hold on to a fairytale story told by the US Government. The facts not theories are at odds with the official story. 2 massive room sized engines would have impacted the outside of the building leaving marks, there were none. These engines would have either remained outside or embedded in the building, neither was the case. Those of us whom have researched 9/11 for many years have not fallen for the ridiculous explanations offered for various aspects of that day.

I recall that Tuesday, it was afternoon here in the UK. I sat at my computer when told there was a newsflash from the US regarding planes hitting the WTC. I switched my tv on and followed Skynews and BBC news all day right into the night. Like most I listened to the reporters and accepted all they stated. BUT some months later, into early 2002 as the unfolding official story rang alarm bells I began to look closer, deeper. From that point on I have researched that event, some 11 years now. Very many have.

I know many will not accept anything but the official story even when conflicting evidence is shown. Stubborn blinkered people whom refuse to accept that their officials were not totally truthful.

As for Shanksville, please, you really must get a grip on reality. A smouldering hole in the ground with no debris whatsoever, no bodies at all, nothing, zilch. As for the alleged phone calls LOL Please its been proven that other than airphones NO CELL PHONE calls were possible, proven fact. Those alleged nonsense calls were debunked by experts. See if the US did not add all these totally false events we might begin to accept events as told BUT as there are so many discrepancies and downright imposibilities we will always fight for the truth of 9/11.
As mentioned earlier, show us the videos that depict a plane hitting the Pentagon and we will leave it at that. Did you know that the building has its own array of security cameras roof mounted which would have shown anything approaching. The coverage is 360degrees. You will never ever convince anyone that the full official story is the true one. Logic, common sense and facts from professionals in all cases proves you are very wrong.

But I admire the way you feel you have to believe otherwise. One day all eyes will be opened. We will grin and say "we told you so".

I don't know where you get your information, but it's clearly not reliable.

Debris and human remains were indeed recovered at the Shanksville site. Scroll down to “Aftermath” in the Wikipedia article and read it for yourself.

Phone calls were made, cell phone calls or not. No one has proven or can prove that calls were not made by the passengers. I'd like you to tell the wife of that passenger that she was not talking to her husband just before he tried to save the plane. Wow. rolleyes

Perhaps there are other videos that have not been released. The Pentagon would have good reasons to hold that information back, as I said in my answer to Gforce. In any case, the existence of additional Pentagon videos is pure speculation.

There are no “professionals” or “experts” that have proven anything. 9/11 conspiracy theories are comprised of unsupported conjecture, nothing more. I'm afraid you wasted your 11 years of research!

Flat
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FlatEarth
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #80 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 6:21pm »

on Aug 19th, 2013, 3:53pm, ZETAR wrote:
GEEZ...I HATE TO TAKE THE OLIVE OUT OF THE MARTINI...BUT THE RARE CASES OF INABILITY TO FIND EVIDENCIARY..."BLACK BOXS"...IS USUALLY AT SEA...AND THEN ...THEY ARE FOUND...OCCASIONALLY...
BOTH BLACK BOXES WERE DESTROYED...IF I RECALL...HOW UNUSUAL IS THAT...OR WHAT A COINCIDENCE...

FLAT...I GET WHERE YOUR COMING FROM BUT RESPECTFULLY MUST TACK MY BOAT ACCORDING TO EVIDENCE...AND IN THIS CASE...A LACK THEREOF...

SHALOM...Z

Well, Z, you know I respect you and MOST of your opinions, but...

They did recover the black box at the Pentagon.

Intense heat does SEVERELY weaken the strongest structural steel, especially when the insulation designed to protect it from heat has been blown off from a jumbo jet impacting at 450 mph! These planes were loaded with fuel and didn't fly very far after take off.

The U.S. government or an insider agency did not do this to start a war. Jihadists did it because they want us out of their territory. All they did was make us go after them, and of course the military industrial complex was there to take advantage of it.

Flat
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #81 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 6:28pm »

on Aug 19th, 2013, 4:05pm, purr wrote:
Not that you need my support, GhostofTheVoice, but my leanings too, and quite thoughtfully, rationally, are that no plane hit any building on 9/11.

I'm not a so called truther, by the way. Just someone who is curious about the evidence, willing to read and consider.


purr


Hmmmm...

Quite thoughtfully and rationally, huh?

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I hope you were kidding!

Flat

P.S. Sorry, purr, if I came on too strong, but you don't usually make yourself such an easy target and I couldn't resist! Please don't beat me! I'm old.
« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2013, 8:55pm by FlatEarth » User IP Logged

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #82 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 7:18pm »

on Aug 19th, 2013, 5:19pm, FlatEarth wrote:
I was also surprised at the lack of videos, GF, and perhaps they are holding some evidence back. I always try to put myself in the chair of responsibility and think about what I would do. Revealing videos would tell a lot about the security system that's in place at the Pentagon, and make it easier for whoever might want to breach that security. That would be enough for me to hold that info back, especially when there is no need to prove who the perpetrators were.

Flat


Flat it's my understanding that the government seized a number of videos and that they were never released which kind of surprises me. I'm sure that is part of protocol but it could have put an end to the debate if they showed anything. It's also my understanding that the black boxes were recovered from the PA and Pentagon crash but not from the towers. I could be wrong about the towers.

Since my broker was an eyewitness to the towers attack and lost a brother in the south tower and he has no reason to lie I take his word that planes did indeed hit the towers.

However people are free to believe what they wish, I'm still waiting on evidence to prove or disprove all the conspiracy theories.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #83 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 8:53pm »

By professionals I state professional airline pilots with experience of jetliners, they are experts. Also the manufacturers of the planes and engines, they too are professionals and experts. They know their stuff whereas you and I have to rely on their expert not amateur statements. I did not waste 11 years on this rather opened my mind and furthered my knowledge. As for JFK LOL thats another can of worms, as is the recent statements about the UK looking into the tragic death of Princess Diane............SAS involvement? Hmmm worthy of a looksie if nothing else. There will always be debate, both sides comparing notes and exchanging ideas. I'm not a 'truther' either just someone whom looks at things and questions, never ever blindly accepting nor denying. The weighing up of evidence. True also of the ET subject. One believes or one disbelieves, personal experience seals the deal.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #84 on: Aug 19th, 2013, 10:29pm »

on Aug 19th, 2013, 8:53pm, GhostofTheVoice wrote:
By professionals I state professional airline pilots with experience of jetliners, they are experts. Also the manufacturers of the planes and engines, they too are professionals and experts. They know their stuff whereas you and I have to rely on their expert not amateur statements. I did not waste 11 years on this rather opened my mind and furthered my knowledge. As for JFK LOL thats another can of worms, as is the recent statements about the UK looking into the tragic death of Princess Diane............SAS involvement? Hmmm worthy of a looksie if nothing else. There will always be debate, both sides comparing notes and exchanging ideas. I'm not a 'truther' either just someone whom looks at things and questions, never ever blindly accepting nor denying. The weighing up of evidence. True also of the ET subject. One believes or one disbelieves, personal experience seals the deal.


Hi Barry, I actually agree that everything has to be considered in forming an opinion there is where differences can come into play. I admit I have little trust in what comes out of politicians mouths and have little faith of ever getting the truth out of Uncle Sam. So in most cases I'm a skeptic. While I put more stock in personal experiences and witnesses I still look for the evidence. In this case there's arguments for both sides but no concrete evidence to prove it wasn't a plane.

While I respect experts, like us they can only offer an opinion. In the court of public opinion it may carry some weight but it's not irrefutable since experts on the opposite side carries the same weight and opposing arguments.

For me it comes down to the eyewitnesses especially those with no government ties. Like with Roswell you either believe them or not but they're the only ones who claim to have seen the event. That said I am bothered by the lack of videos when I'm sure others exist. That does lend itself to a cover-up on some level. I won't rule out a missile but my gut still leans toward airplane.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #85 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 09:29am »

Exactly, 'something' obviously hit that building, but what that is is totally open to debate, logic and common sense. Sure they rolled out convenient witnesses for the cameras, the media, I cannot take their statements 100% as conflicting data states otherwise. Yes that would end this fully totally completely, show us the vids which we all know must exist. The Pentagon security system (not the silly gatehouse nonsense which did not even have the correct date) but those from the actual high tech system we know exists there.

If the US Government did not place a number of ridiculously dubious elements into the story of 9/11 we would happily accept things and be on our way. Trouble is once you realise something does not add up you tend to look deeper and longer, more elements start to appear that do not ring true.

I'm happy to accept, cos I saw with my own eyes in so many vids over so long a period of repeated analysis, that 2 planes hit towers 1 and 2. How the buildings collapsed in near free fall speed into near nothing bugs me. But too many silly explanations out there. I listen to them all but take none on board as being fully correct.

We must keep searching, investigating, debating. One day we will know the truth.
« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2013, 09:30am by GhostofTheVoice » User IP Logged

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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #86 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 10:13am »

Hi Barry

Its been a while!! Maybe 6 years or so.... how have you been? I hope all is well with you.

Luvey
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #87 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 10:14am »

I don't know if this has been posted in this thread before... I haven't the time to go through the whole thread to see...

UK Man Wins Court Victory Over BBC for 9/11 Coverup Broadcast

Tony Rooke refused to pay a TV license fee because the BBC intentionally misrepresented facts about the 9/11 attacks, he alleged. It is widely known that the BBC reported the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 over 20 minutes before it occurred. WTC 7 was a 47-story skyscraper that was not hit by a plane on 9/11 but collapsed at free-fall speed later that day.

So Rooke said the BBC had to have had prior knowledge to a terror attack making them complicit in the attack. He presented the BBC footage to the judge along with a slew of other evidence, and the judge agreed that Rooke had a reasonable case to protest. Rooke was found not guilty and he was not fined for failure to pay the licensing fee.

Watch the videos @ http://www.activistpost.com/2013/04/uk-man-wins-court-victory-over-bbc-for.html
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #88 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 10:28am »

A MOST GROUNDED,CONSERVATIVE,EXPERIENCED POST...
NICELY DONE...

INDEED...LUVEY IS ALWAYS SPOT ON...WELCOME BACK.BARRY!

A TOAST TO YOU SIR ACROSS THE DIGITAL DIVIDE...

SHALOM...ZETAR
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #89 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 10:51am »

I must say there's an interesting debate going on so I will share what I think. Call it gut feeling or discount it if you wish. First of all I think bombs were on board probably loaded by baggage handlers. No evidence on my part just speculation. I don't think a group of 20 hijackers could have put together a plan and carried it out without help, especially on the ground. Bombs would have intensified the explosions and while a plane full of fuel can cause a massive explosion...add bombs?

I also admit the LACK of videos in the Pentagon attack doesn't pass the smell test. I do think there's a lot we don't know and may never know. That being if something other than a plane or in conjunction with a plane hit the building. Needless to say this is speculation on my part. I don't need MIB knocking on my door! smiley
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