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 sticky  Author  Topic: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911  (Read 31602 times)
GhostofTheVoice
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #90 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 12:52pm »

on Aug 20th, 2013, 10:13am, Luvey wrote:
Hi Barry

Its been a while!! Maybe 6 years or so.... how have you been? I hope all is well with you.

Luvey


Hi there, well lets see, 2005, its 8 years LOL. Its been a busy hectic few years, doing ok considering. Hope you are fine
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GhostofTheVoice
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #91 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 12:54pm »

on Aug 20th, 2013, 10:28am, ZETAR wrote:
A MOST GROUNDED,CONSERVATIVE,EXPERIENCED POST...
NICELY DONE...

INDEED...LUVEY IS ALWAYS SPOT ON...WELCOME BACK.BARRY!

A TOAST TO YOU SIR ACROSS THE DIGITAL DIVIDE...

SHALOM...ZETAR


Very many thanks, its good to be back here, my best regards and respects to you all. Luvey, yes I recall that case but believe the guy lost the case and had to pay his tv licence after all LOL
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spacemaverick
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #92 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 1:41pm »

on Aug 20th, 2013, 10:51am, GForce wrote:
I must say there's an interesting debate going on so I will share what I think. Call it gut feeling or discount it if you wish. First of all I think bombs were on board probably loaded by baggage handlers. No evidence on my part just speculation. I don't think a group of 20 hijackers could have put together a plan and carried it out without help, especially on the ground. Bombs would have intensified the explosions and while a plane full of fuel can cause a massive explosion...add bombs?

I also admit the LACK of videos in the Pentagon attack doesn't pass the smell test. I do think there's a lot we don't know and may never know. That being if something other than a plane or in conjunction with a plane hit the building. Needless to say this is speculation on my part. I don't need MIB knocking on my door! smiley


I am inclined to agree with you.
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GhostofTheVoice
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #93 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 4:05pm »

Lets see, trying to put myself at that time at those places i can imagine this.......the air is charged with confusion, after two planes hit the towers..........confusion, fear, adrenalin is pumping, emotions running amok. Its all too easy for witnesses to misinterpret anything they see whilst all this is going on around them. Its not a fault, the emotionally charged atmosphere makes the mind rush, trying to fathom out whats going on. At the Pentagon........with news in mind of planes hitting the WTC and the country being on alert. Suddenly from nowhere we hear the whine of screaming engines getting louder and louder, and so close and low we see a blur of something big and shiny then BANG. Our minds cannot comprehend all it takes in in those few split seconds.

With more than one plane in the air already guess its too easy to allow the mind to interpret it witnessed a large plane whoosing by and seeing the fire at the Pentagon your logical minds says a plane hit it. Our minds like rational pieces fitting jigsaws together. From then on we believe, no, we know, a plane hit.
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GhostofTheVoice
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #94 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 4:59pm »

What I'm doing is widening the debate parameters here, opening lines, exploring. Because of the traumatic situation its not logical to fully accept the witness statements of that day. Humans are notorious at incorrectly perceiving a situation. A bank raid, a mugging, a multi vehicle crash on the freeway, witnesses will often give conflicting accounts. Tests have proved this.

What if a large plane, jetliner or not, actually did fly very low very fast approaching the Pentagon but did not actually hit. What if the plane was a diversion? Yes agreed stretching things but lets play some more. What if a smaller remote controlled plane or missile hit the Pentagon whilst a large decoy plane flew in, distracting any witnesses, whom would later only recall that plane, putting two and two together, it was that which hit the building.

Lets shake this bag up a little more..................
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FlatEarth
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #95 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 5:49pm »

on Aug 19th, 2013, 7:18pm, GForce wrote:
Flat it's my understanding that the government seized a number of videos and that they were never released which kind of surprises me. I'm sure that is part of protocol but it could have put an end to the debate if they showed anything. It's also my understanding that the black boxes were recovered from the PA and Pentagon crash but not from the towers. I could be wrong about the towers.

Since my broker was an eyewitness to the towers attack and lost a brother in the south tower and he has no reason to lie I take his word that planes did indeed hit the towers.

However people are free to believe what they wish, I'm still waiting on evidence to prove or disprove all the conspiracy theories.

GF, of course we are all free to believe what we want, but when misinformation is posted I believe it's important to point it out.

Regarding missing videos, here's an excerpt from the following link:

https://sites.google.com/site/911guide/pentagon

Claim: A Video clearly showing Pentagon hit has not been released / there are 85 tapes from Pentagon.

In Brief:†Video showing the impact from the Pentagon Checkpoint has been released. Video showing the fireball from the Doubletree Hotel camera has been released.

Videos have been evidence for the Moussaoui trial, thus not released until 2006. A FOIA request was filled in a effort to get video footage released of the Pentagon crash. FBI has said 85 videos†were potentially responsive to a FOIA request,†but a huge majority of them shows neither the Pentagon crash site, nor the impact. Or show the area only after the impact. Only a couple of them show anything at all.
So there are no 85 tapes from Pentagon. There are 85 tapes. Many of these videotapes do not have footage of the Pentagon at all. Instead, many have footage of the WTC, some are security video tapes taken from a Kinko's in Florida, etc. Some that show the Pentagon were taken days after the attacks, and some in the evening of 9/11/2001.
Why did agent Maguire (FBI) talk about 85 tapes, then? Why did she think these 85 tapes were potentially responsive to a FOIA request, eventhough all of them were not even of the Pentagon area?

The answer lies in the way she determined which tapes could possibly be potentially responsive to a FOIA request.††

†††"I searched a series of FBI databases ... and determined that the FBI possessed 85 videotapes ††† †† ††† ††† that might be potentially responsive to plaintiff's FOIA request. This determination was based on† ††† ††† videotapes that had been submitted into FBI evidence, sent directly to the FBI laboratory in ††† ††† ††† ††† ††† Quantico, Virginia, and/or obtained by the FBI's Washington Field Office."
The Florida and WTC tapes are included, because Maguire determined that all tapes sent to Quantico, Virginia could be potentially responsive to the FOIA request. The Florida and WTC tapes included in this 85 tape count were all received at Quantico, so she included those tapes to the 85 tapes. Obviously, as all tapes sent to Quantico were not from the Pentagon, she determined that only a few show anything relevant at all.

In a nutshell, there are no 85 tapes from Pentagon. There are 85 tapes that an agent determined could potentially show something, since they were received at Quantico, Virginia, or Washington Field Office.†Agent Maguire determined, that only 1 videotape showed the impact. This is the Pentagon Checkpoint tape.
Surveillance cameras are not 24 frames per second cameras and they are not located in anticipation of an airline attack. We have already seen the impact from one angle and the fireball from two angles. We know there was a plane from all the evidence and eyewitnesses above. Why would we still need to see a crystal clear video?

Remember. If there was a clear video, conspiracy theorists would say it was manipulated and photoshopped. That has already been stated by the likes of David Ray Griffin and others. There is always a conspiracy theory.†


For me, I remember that day well, especially when the second plane hit the WYC. I was listening to a live broadcast from the scene as I was driving my car, returning from an off site business meeting. I knew right away bin Laden was responsible because he had previously tried to bring a tower down with a truck bomb. I suppose the conspiracy crowd believed that the Clinton administration did that one. Anyway, I spent the rest of the day watching TV in the Design Dome at Chrysler headquarters. Most people were sent home because it was feared that Chrysler was a potential target for terrorists. Of course nothing happened at Chrysler.

Flat

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GhostofTheVoice
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #96 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 6:31pm »

There will always be conspiracy theory, or better term, those that do not immediately buy everything the media and government tell you, the less naive in society. Those not so dumbed down and closed minded perhaps. Lets see the actual vids from the high tech security system the Pentagon has, it should nicely show the plane approaching, the impact etc. Not some dubious piece of film that, lets be honest, in this day and age anyone with good software and expertise can put together a very convincing piece of data.
« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2013, 6:32pm by GhostofTheVoice » User IP Logged

jm57
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #97 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 7:36pm »

Well,this thread went from an attempt to inform to bickering to a mild and sweet reunion.
Marevelous.
The thing which really bites me ,above all others,is,NO ONE has indisputable PROOF of anything.
The only proof I need is the ability of the US Military budget to escalate year after,yet there is no PEACE.!!
The Military Industrial Complex has and always get their monies..
Remember,Eisenhower said it best,this is the only ability all in the USA has no hand in,no vote on MIC to be able to expand it's agenda.
Sorry to be a spoiler,but the truth is,WE can't do a damned thing about it..
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GhostofTheVoice
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #98 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 7:42pm »

Nope cannot really say there was bickering here, a good natured debate yes. When a small harmless dig is generated its good cricket to give a little harmless dig back. So far this thread has been one of intelligent, civil, good mannered and courteous exchanges. Hope it continues that way. The war machine will always be there whilst humans have petty insignificant tantrums against one another. If there were no conflicts needing billions to support and the terrible cost in lives, the World would have no poverty, alas thats never going to happen.
« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2013, 7:44pm by GhostofTheVoice » User IP Logged

FlatEarth
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #99 on: Aug 20th, 2013, 8:50pm »

Here's an article that discusses the flying skills of the 9/11 terrorists. It's apparent to me that some pilots say it was impossible for Honjour, the one who piloted the Pentagon plane, to do what he did. Other pilots do not agree, as you can read for yourself below.

Here's a link to the entire article, and below is an excerpt.

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Flight_School_Dropouts

People will still say that the Pentagon attack was too difficult for Hanjour to have pulled off, however other articles quote pilots saying that isnít the case.
New American included comments from pilots in a general piece on "9-11 Conspiracy Fact & Fiction":
...In Painful Questions: An Analysis of the September 11th Attack, Eric Hufschmid says: "I would say it is absurd to believe an inexperienced pilot could fly such a plane a few millimeters above the ground. The flight path of this plane is enough to convince me that no human was in control of it. I think only a computer is capable of flying an airplane in such a tricky manner. If terrorists flew the plane, they would qualify as the World's Greatest Pilots since they did tricks with a commercial aircraft that I doubt the best Air Force pilots could do."
Ralph Omholt's "skydrifter" website claims: "No pilot will claim to be able to hit such a spot as the Pentagon base under any conditions in a 757 doing 300 knots. As to the clearly alleged amateur pilots: IMPOSSIBLE!"
"Impossible"? "No pilot will claim...?" Well, we did not have any difficulty finding pilots who disagreed. Ronald D. Bull, a retired United Airlines pilot, in Jupiter, Florida, told The New American, "It's not that difficult, and certainly not impossible," noting that it's much easier to crash intentionally into a target than to make a controlled landing. "If you're doing a suicide run, like these guys were doing, you'd just keep the nose down and push like the devil," says Capt. Bull, who flew 727s, 747s, 757s, and 767s for many years, internationally and domestically, including into the Washington, D.C., airports.
George Williams of Waxhaw, North Carolina, piloted 707s, 727s, DC-10s, and 747s for Northwest Airlines for 38 years. "I don't see any merit to those arguments whatsoever," Capt. Williams told us. "The Pentagon is a pretty big target and I'd say hitting it was a fairly easy thing to do."
According to 9/11 "investigator" Dick Eastman, whose wild theories are posted on the American Patriot Friends Network and many other Internet sites, Flight 77 was part of an elaborate deception in which a remote-controlled F-16 "killer jet" actually hit the Pentagon, while the 757 swooped over the Pentagon and landed at Reagan National Airport! "With its engines off," says Eastman, Flight 77 silently "coasted" in to the airport and blended in with other air traffic. "There would be few people to see Flight 77 come through, and those who did would doubtless assume that it was yet another routine flight over Reagan National," he claims.
"That's so far-fetched it's beyond ludicrous," says Capt. Williams. "I've flown into Reagan [National Airport] hundreds of times and you can't just sneak in and 'blend in' without air traffic controllers knowing about it and without other pilots and witnesses noticing."
Besides, as Capt. Ron Bull points out, the Eastman scenario would require piloting skills far beyond what it would take to hit the Pentagon. "I've flown into Reagan National many times and my first trip in a 757 was no picnic," he says. "I had to really work at it, and that was after 25 years of experience flying big jets. Any scenario that has the 757 [Flight 77] taking a flight path over the Pentagon and landing at National unobserved is proposing something that is far more difficult and far more difficult to believe than flying the plane into the Pentagon. It's just not credible."

The New American


Flat
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carolnistri
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #100 on: May 22nd, 2014, 06:02am »

Well what happend to that plane and its passengers then?
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FlatEarth
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #101 on: May 22nd, 2014, 3:38pm »

on May 22nd, 2014, 06:02am, carolnistri wrote:
Well what happend to that plane and its passengers then?

Please look at one of my earlier posts (reply #57 on page 4). At around the 5 minute mark there are many pictures of plane parts. There won't be intact bodies in an impact like this. There were bodies recovered, but they were most likely those who were working in the Pentagon. Conspiracy sites often make unsubstantiated claims and profess to have knowledge of what should happen when a plane crashes at high speed. The truth is that commercial planes almost never crash at cruising speed. The only one that I recall is the one that went straight into the Everglades after the cargo caught on fire. There wasn't much left of that plane either.

Flat
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #102 on: May 23rd, 2014, 11:25am »

O I C,Sorry Flat.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #103 on: May 23rd, 2014, 5:33pm »

on May 22nd, 2014, 3:38pm, Flat wrote:
Please look at one of my earlier posts (reply #57 on page 4). At around the 5 minute mark there are many pictures of plane parts. There won't be intact bodies in an impact like this. There were bodies recovered, but they were most likely those who were working in the Pentagon. Conspiracy sites often make unsubstantiated claims and profess to have knowledge of what should happen when a plane crashes at high speed. The truth is that commercial planes almost never crash at cruising speed. The only one that I recall is the one that went straight into the Everglades after the cargo caught on fire. There wasn't much left of that plane either.

Flat


That's correct in all respects imo.....and btw there were some people who saw an actual plane flying into the building. In fact, from what I read soon after the event, the gas station across the street was one where the cameras recorded this and I believe the attendant said he saw a jet plane and the govt soon confiscated his video.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong about this.
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xx Re: WHAT REALLY HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
« Reply #104 on: May 23rd, 2014, 5:42pm »

on May 23rd, 2014, 5:33pm, drwu23 wrote:
That's correct in all respects imo.....and btw there were some people who saw an actual plane flying into the building. In fact, from what I read soon after the event, the gas station across the street was one where the cameras recorded this and I believe the attendant said he saw a jet plane and the govt soon confiscated his video.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong about this.


That sounds about right, as I recall. There were only a couple of stills from the video released eventually. They weren't very clear, since the camera was not intended to monitor the Pentagon and it was a fair distance away. This caused a lot of protest from conspiracy minded people. I don't believe there was ever more of the video released, or any explanation, but I could be wrong. It did look like a large plane.

I used to try to get conspiracy fans to say where they thought the plane and all those people went, if not into the Pentagon. No one ever offered a theory. Strange, given the number of theories they trafficked in.
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