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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Paul Villa's photos genuine  (Read 5819 times)
HUBCAP9
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #75 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 07:02am »

Hello Ufoscan,

Thanks for the earlier information re Adamski, Fry and Menger. I'm very impressed with the thinking behind your recent answers, much along the same line of thinking as my own. I appreciate that it is not proof but I will say that I have seen a Paul Villa type craft at close range, say less than 200 feet distance from me and my family. I read in Tim Good's book that the rectangular shapes towards the bottom edge of the large craft are not windows. However, the craft which I saw had these individual rectangles illuminated with a soft yellowish white light, as if they were in fact windows. As the craft flew slowly away from us, I made a strong effort to get as much detail as I could, knowing full well that people would ridicule my story. The windows were the most obvious feature and so I took the trouble to count them three times. Each count gave a side on view total of eleven and a half windows. If you look very carefully at Paul's photo, you will I think be able to count eleven and a half. My sighting took place around 9pm on the 28th of December 1980 on a country road in Macclesfield, Cheshire, England. It was at least a couple of years later that I discovered that it was the same night as the famous Rendlesham Forest incident. I also later discovered that other witnesses in a nearby town to me also saw brilliantly illuminated craft that same weekend, and also that the road on which I saw the craft has had numerous low level, including landed UFO sightings throughout the last 35 years or so.

All the best,
Rob Hulse
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #76 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 08:00am »

I would like to recommend members take a look at this website

http://danielfry.com/index.php?id=1120

On the first page of contents is "Alan's Message"

The whole Daniel Fry story is very interesting and I believe very important. However, I would strongly urge members or visitors to read "Alan's Message" very carefully and thoroughly.
Personally, I am convinced that Daniel Fry's story is an accurate and truthful account of his encounters with our space brothers. I would particularly draw your notice to "Alan's" reasons for not landing on The White House Lawn. Although this was written many years ago, the reasons are just as valid today as they were back then. I would also like to draw your attention to this quote from the message ----- " If any great and lasting good is to come of our efforts, the actual leaders must be your own people, or at least men who are indistinguishable from them."

I believe this hints strongly that there are people alive on the Earth today who come from this more advanced branch of the Human family. They have incarnated here specifically to help create the circumstances for the transition to a more spiritual way of living which "Alan" exhorts us to achieve.

People are always asking "What is all this ET - UFO stuff all about? I believe we need look no further. The answer is right there in "Alan's Message".
Even if you think that Daniel Fry was a complete liar, can any one of us doubt the wisdom of "Alan's Message"

Merry Christmas

Rob Hulse
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #77 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 08:23am »

on Dec 23rd, 2012, 09:57am, ufoscan wrote:
I have never heard of Paul Villa ever having made film footage. I discussed Villa with both Wendelle Stevens and Timothy Good and neither of them had heard of film footage either.

Is it possible that what you saw was wrongly attributed to Villa ?


Yeah I'm pretty sure. Back in the mid 1990s I first heard about it from the Director of MUFON Canada that such film clips existed and that he had seen one of these and then I think it was about 6 or more years ago I saw one of these videos posted on Youtube and the poster did not no where the film clip was from or who the owner was. After so many people's related negative comments concerning it, the film clip disappeared altogether from youtube.
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #78 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 08:46am »

Now just to comment on something more here in relation to the topic of contactees. After looking into the subject of UFO photos and film for the past 20 years in relation to contactee claims, I can best conclude that the only real proof out there is to experience it for ones self first hand, should the opportunity arise, and don't worry about ever proving it because, people will only believe what they want to believe and that means that even if you were to obtain the most exclusive photos and footage that you can possibly imagine, then absolutely none of it can ever be proven, because of all the now advance CGI, etc, that people can also use to fake these things and claims. There will always be people out there who will make it their life's work to make sure that any and all possible proof will always be explained away as hoaxes now that it's possible to use what ever means there is to duplicate anything, and unfortunately it also takes so many more of the dishonest people to fake related claims to the real events, that in most people's minds, it makes everything therefore a hoax.
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #79 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 11:06am »

on Dec 23rd, 2012, 11:29am, ufoscan wrote:
Probably because people that are "higher up" on the social ladder would never risk going public with such seemingly outlandish stories. Few people are willing to put their reputation in peril when they are in good standing with society.


It may seem so. But the truth is that a more open contact would result in worldwide panic. I suspect they are aware of that. Another reason is they may be aware that if they openly manifested to humans, many would expect them to solve all of the world's problems while others would want their technology to create more efficient weapons.


I think one must put things in perspective. The people that we are discussing have made claims of contact. There is no proof that they have made such contacts. Also, they are mostly known because of the pictures they took - pictures which are far from convincing in that none of them ever show the objects in situations that would be impossible to fake.

So the first thing one should do is distinguish between contactee claims and the general phenomenon of UFOs being sighted all over the world. The contactee claims may or may not be true, but clearly the UFO phenomenon is.

However, if aliens do make contact with humans, it seems to me that doing so quietly may be the best course of action although most people contacted would probably not dare reveal such stories publicly for fear that it would ruin their personal lives.


Just to give us enough to ponder upon and wonder about.


The UFO phenomenon as a whole is well-known throughout the world. The problem is not whether people know about it but whether people care about it.


I am well acquainted with Vallée's work and know about "Messengers of Deception". I think his angle is based on an assumption which is one of many. As I said, one must distinguish between the claims of individuals and the phenomenon as a whole.


Yes..I have heard all of those answers before from those who are mostly hard core ETH fans........they simply don't work for me. IMO the ufo enigma in many cases is not what it seems. People are wasting their time in many of these cases when they try and' kick the tires' of the space craft.
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #80 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 11:08am »

on Dec 23rd, 2012, 1:46pm, Sam wrote:
If you think we contactees and encounter are marginal people then why do you always ask me for free evidence and mention our claim. Sounds like you want to decide how the aliens should contact our earth. this is why they come to see us not you. Simple as that.


Well..there are some simple things about it but we might not agree on who or what is simple.

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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #81 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 11:10am »

on Dec 23rd, 2012, 6:46pm, journryman57 wrote:
IMHO,everyone on Earth is"marginal",after all,we all live on a planet constantly at battle with each other,all nations included.
Sam,the post you replied on ,don't believe he was referring to Contactees and Encounterers per say,as marginal.
You also mention in your reply "free".
Why?Do you sell your information?


Marginal as in outsiders, oddball characters, out of the mainstream , etc.....this is usually the case in almost all of the celebrated contactee cases. Do the reading and see...then tell me that's not the case.

This is pointed out in an excellent manner in The Trickster by George Hansen; a must read for anyone who wants to look deeper into this aspect about contactees, marginality, and the paranormal.
« Last Edit: Dec 24th, 2012, 11:13am by drwu23 » User IP Logged

ufoscan
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #82 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 11:20am »

on Dec 24th, 2012, 07:02am, HUBCAP9 wrote:
Hello Ufoscan,
Thanks for the earlier information re Adamski, Fry and Menger. I'm very impressed with the thinking behind your recent answers, much along the same line of thinking as my own. I appreciate that it is not proof but I will say that I have seen a Paul Villa type craft at close range, say less than 200 feet distance from me and my family.


I too have seen a UFO similar to the object in Paul Villa's photographs, but that does not make them real. It only shows that the shape and design of the object in his pictures matches a familiar design that had been reported for years prior to Villa's pictures.

The problem with the way people look at UFO photographs is that they want to see in them what supports their belief rather than look at them objectiveley - whether they believe in UFOs or not.

Whether a picture of a UFO is real or not does not change anything to the reality of UFOs.

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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #83 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 11:30am »

on Dec 24th, 2012, 08:00am, HUBCAP9 wrote:
I would like to recommend members take a look at this website

http://danielfry.com/index.php?id=1120

On the first page of contents is "Alan's Message"

The whole Daniel Fry story is very interesting and I believe very important. However, I would strongly urge members or visitors to read "Alan's Message" very carefully and thoroughly.
Personally, I am convinced that Daniel Fry's story is an accurate and truthful account of his encounters with our space brothers. I would particularly draw your notice to "Alan's" reasons for not landing on The White House Lawn. Although this was written many years ago, the reasons are just as valid today as they were back then. I would also like to draw your attention to this quote from the message ----- " If any great and lasting good is to come of our efforts, the actual leaders must be your own people, or at least men who are indistinguishable from them."

I believe this hints strongly that there are people alive on the Earth today who come from this more advanced branch of the Human family. They have incarnated here specifically to help create the circumstances for the transition to a more spiritual way of living which "Alan" exhorts us to achieve.

People are always asking "What is all this ET - UFO stuff all about? I believe we need look no further. The answer is right there in "Alan's Message".
Even if you think that Daniel Fry was a complete liar, can any one of us doubt the wisdom of "Alan's Message"

It's hard to say quite what is going on here, but there is no doubt in my mind that most of the pictures and film footage offered by contactees is faked - and I have been looking at UFO pictures for fifty years ! Whether these people have at some point had real experiences in spite of this is always a possibility, but one cannot use the "proof" offered by them to support their claims.

I wish that Daniel Fry's claims were true and the messages that contactees attribute to "space brothers" certainly give us food for thought - no matter what the origin, but I cannot believe in the honesty of a man whose claim to fame are film sequences that show what look very much like models suspended on strings.
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #84 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 11:35am »

on Dec 24th, 2012, 08:23am, JTruthseeker wrote:
Yeah I'm pretty sure. Back in the mid 1990s I first heard about it from the Director of MUFON Canada that such film clips existed and that he had seen one of these and then I think it was about 6 or more years ago I saw one of these videos posted on Youtube and the poster did not no where the film clip was from or who the owner was. After so many people's related negative comments concerning it, the film clip disappeared altogether from youtube.

What we have then is hearsay combined with a claim of an attribution that is unsubstantiated. Nobody so far has demonstrated nor verified the actual origin. As I said, neither Timothy Good nor Wendellle Stevens - who both knew Villa personally - ever heard of him having shot film sequences. Did you ask the Director of MUFON Canada where he got this information ?
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #85 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 12:27pm »

on Dec 24th, 2012, 08:46am, JTruthseeker wrote:
Now just to comment on something more here in relation to the topic of contactees. After looking into the subject of UFO photos and film for the past 20 years in relation to contactee claims, I can best conclude that the only real proof out there is to experience it for ones self first hand

It would seem that several of us who have been interested in UFOs have also experienced it firsthand. However, my point is that this should not make us loose track of our objectivity when looking into other people's claims.

on Dec 24th, 2012, 08:46am, JTruthseeker wrote:
...and don't worry about ever proving it because, people will only believe what they want to believe

The problem here is that this works both ways. People will believe even when an objective evaluation shows the contrary. One of the best examples of this is the infamous WC UFO photographed by Meier. It has been demonstrated that the lower portion of the object in those pictures is made from a container lid. We even know which model it is. Yet many people who ardently want to believe the Meier claims persist in denying this obvious fact in spite of the evidence.

on Dec 24th, 2012, 08:46am, JTruthseeker wrote:
and that means that even if you were to obtain the most exclusive photos and footage that you can possibly imagine, then absolutely none of it can ever be proven, because of all the now advance CGI, etc

There is a general misconception that nowadays it is very easy to fake UFO photographs due to the easy availability of photo manipulation tools. But the truth is that the most convincing hoaxes are those that are made with models that are placed in the actual scene at the time the photograph is taken. That is because the light hits the object exactly in the same way as it does the rest of the scene. This method has been available ever since the advent of photography back in 1838. So the means to fake UFO photographs efficiently has been available since the dawn of photography.

Most modern hoaxes done with CGI must try to recreate the lighting effect and object texture artificially and that is very hard to do. That is why the overwhelming majority of CGI-produced hoaxes do look unreal. Add to this that most modern hoaxes are those found on the internet, which are mostly from anonymous sources where the original files are never offered. So there is no possibility of efficient analysis.

on Dec 24th, 2012, 08:46am, JTruthseeker wrote:
There will always be people out there who will make it their life's work to make sure that any and all possible proof will always be explained away as hoaxes

It's an interesting way of putting it. But what is the objective here ? To believe the claims of an individual at all costs even when the pictures he offers are questionable or to look at things objectively and try and find out what is really going on ?

I became interested in UFOs at age 6, got my first UFO book when I was 8. In it there were many fascinating pictures, but some of them looked ambiguous to me. I wasn't quite sure whether they were real or not. Oh, I very much was convinced that UFOs must be real, but I wasn't sure those pictures were legit. Eventually, I learned that the questionable pictures were photo-montages. So I very early on learned to distinguish between claims of UFO sightings and UFO pictures.

By age 13, I took a serious interest in photography and I tried to find out if I could hoax a UFO picture. I took pictures of a model I made that was suspended on a thin string. I was surprised how easy it was to make a convincing fake. This doubled my resolve to be as objective as I could when looking at UFO photographs.

Later that year, I saw my first UFO. There were six other witnesses with me but no photographs. But I pursued my interest in photography and continued to look at UFO pictures objectively even when it went against what I wished to believe.

As I described earlier, I was fascinated by contactee claims. I met Madeleine Rodeffer, Daniel Fry and corresponded with Menger. But when I looked at their "evidence", I still had to remain objective. Hardest for me was Madeleine Rodeffer, because I got to know her as a friend. We would call each other up just to chat. She always sounded quite honest and she never charged for anything. I wanted very much that film footage to be real...

I believed in the authenticity of her footage most of my life and argued as others did (namely, Timothy Good, Bill Sherwood and Bob Oeschler) that this footage showed the effects of actual magnetic field distortion caused by the "craft". I argued that point with "disbelievers" for many years. Besides, I knew Madeleine personally and I knew she couldn't possibly have lied about having seen that craft !

But just a few years ago, somebody showed me I had been wrong all along and I had to accept that, in spite of all I thought was irrefutable evidence, I had been fooled. The film was a fake.

on Dec 24th, 2012, 08:46am, JTruthseeker wrote:
...and unfortunately it also takes so many more of the dishonest people to fake related claims to the real events, that in most people's minds, it makes everything therefore a hoax.

You are quite right that, nowadays, UFO hoaxing has become a favourite passtime of a great number of people. YouTube is a major cause of this - especially now that ads on clips pay the authors of those clips. Several completely fake channels have arisen that are entirely dedicated to UFO hoaxing.
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #86 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 12:31pm »

on Dec 24th, 2012, 11:06am, drwu23 wrote:
Yes..I have heard all of those answers before from those who are mostly hard core ETH fans........they simply don't work for me. IMO the ufo enigma in many cases is not what it seems. People are wasting their time in many of these cases when they try and' kick the tires' of the space craft.

I am not championing the ETH cause but simply pointing out that humanity's attitude when faced with the unknown is pretty much where the problem lies.
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #87 on: Dec 24th, 2012, 2:16pm »

on Dec 24th, 2012, 12:31pm, ufoscan wrote:
I am not championing the ETH cause but simply pointing out that humanity's attitude when faced with the unknown is pretty much where the problem lies.


And I can agree with that....that's the point of the comments about the paranormal being marginalized by society at large.
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #88 on: Dec 31st, 2012, 07:12am »

In reply 62 UFOSCAN made this post;

And this is the pesky photo that shows a branch going right behind the "UFO"... Make of it what you will.

http://www.ufohypotheses.com/PaulVilla1-93.jpg

Perhaps it is the poor quality of the photograph, but I am unable to see where this branch reappears on the other side of the craft. If it does not, then how could anyone claim that the branch goes behind the craft. Is it not just as reasonable to assume that the branch just happens to end at the point where it touches the craft on the photograph?
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xx Re: Paul Villa's photos genuine
« Reply #89 on: Dec 31st, 2012, 08:24am »

on Dec 31st, 2012, 07:12am, HUBCAP9 wrote:
In reply 62 UFOSCAN made this post;

And this is the pesky photo that shows a branch going right behind the "UFO"... Make of it what you will.

http://www.ufohypotheses.com/PaulVilla1-93.jpg

Perhaps it is the poor quality of the photograph, but I am unable to see where this branch reappears on the other side of the craft. If it does not, then how could anyone claim that the branch goes behind the craft. Is it not just as reasonable to assume that the branch just happens to end at the point where it touches the craft on the photograph?
Rob Hulse


Agreed, you can't determine the branch position from that linked photo. It could stop right at the edge or go behind. I've got to think that a better quality image was used if the branch is claimed to be seen on the other side.

It's interesting how some images of crafts show them so close to objects that tease you as to the correct relative positions. undecided
« Last Edit: Dec 31st, 2012, 08:32am by MysterEd » User IP Logged

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