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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..  (Read 16611 times)
drwu23
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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #45 on: Dec 20th, 2012, 10:25pm »

on Dec 20th, 2012, 3:18pm, Mythos wrote:
Good points, but who would have been a better candidate? A Leader of a country? The president? a military leader? Certainly NOT a religious leader, a millionaire? who? wouldn't a poor person be the perfect choice?

Anyone else is going to have an even MORE SLANTED AGENDA..

It certainly parallels God choosing John and Mary to be the parents of Jesus, no? Why wasn't a King or someone famous choosen?


You are comparing Meier to one of Jesus's disciples...really?
I'm sorry but your line of reasoning just isn't reasonable...imo. If you want no one to believe you pick an obscure person witha shady past.
Anyone would have been better than this man if you are serious about getting out a true message.
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Mythos
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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #46 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 12:04am »

on Dec 20th, 2012, 10:23pm, drwu23 wrote:
I have always wondered about the alleged developer of his pics....why should we believe that he did indeed develop all of the pics? But again more importantly where are all the negatives..? If you had genuine pics of alien craft would you manage to lose all the negatives..?
You don't find anything curious about all of this...really..?


Not sure if you read the above (Katter...) link as it deals with the Photo investigation in a very in-depth and detailed manner, It's amazing the amount of wrong information that is out there and you say there are/were NO negatives is completely wrong, one reason there was no negatives is because Billy (often) shot SLIDE FILM! (Slide Film has no negatives for the non-photo people)

QUOTE: "The next day, on the 29th of March 1976, he exposed two rolls of movie film and four 36-shot rolls of color slides"

Here are a few interesting quotes:
"Even the 60-line poster print, however, was quite spectacular and revealed detail not available in the original with a strong magnifying glass. We still find no evidence of fraud or trickery in any of these photographs so enhanced. On the other hand, we find details revealed that tend more to establish the validity of the story told by the witness."

QUOTE: "Then the print, color copy negatives, and color separation black and white negatives were
carefully examined for evidence of double exposure, photo paste-up, model at short range
suspended on a string, etc., and nothing was found to indicate a hoax
".

QUOTE: "Design Technology concluded that the object in the photograph must have been a large object photographed some distance from the camera."

LINK:
http://archive.org/stream/UfoBillyMeier-PhotoAnalysysReport/UfoBillyMeier-1982-ExtendedReportOfMeierPhotoAnalysis-WendelleCStevens_djvu.txt

« Last Edit: Dec 21st, 2012, 12:05am by Mythos » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #47 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 05:25am »

on Dec 17th, 2012, 10:37am, Katterfelto wrote:
I picked up Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story by Kal Korff for my Kindle. It is ripped to shreds in reviews by the Meier believers so I thought it would be an interesting read. I can see why it attracts such attacks because it paints a picture of a complete fraud.

Anyone read this and have opinions on it or suggestions for alternate reading that address "facts"? I'm not interested in the promotion of Meier or his vision of enlightenment - I leave that for religions.

I've seen most of the online critiques of the images (forced perspective, trash can, wedding cake, etc. and have yet to see any real analytical counter arguments.


Kal Korff's book on meier case was ripped to shreds by people online(excluding the believers) not because it paints meier as a complete fraud but because of its gross errors, misrepresentations, ignoring evidence, bias, incompetence, outright lying,..etc. I too own the book. Refutation of Kal Korffs claims is available here:
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Web_site_files_pointing_out_shortcomings_in_Korff%27s_Spaceships_of_the_Pleiades,_Internet,_January_2003

Other books on Meier case
http://www.amazon.de/Meier-Prophet-Sehnsucht-einer-besseren/dp/3312001285/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1348661970&sr=1-4

http://www.amazon.de/Au%C3%9Ferirdische-Friedenssehnsucht-Erdenmenschen-Maarten-Dillinger/dp/3883235105

Significant onsite investigation work was done by wendelle stevens team, for six years. Have you read their reports ?

on Dec 16th, 2012, 1:02pm, drwu23 wrote:
In case you are interested Methi, who claims to be one of Billy Meier's sons, is posting at UFO Evolution.
Check the last few recent pages.
http://www.ufoevolution.com/forums/ufo-general-discussion-news/8599-open-letter-billy-meiers-son.html


I have looked into his letter at the time when it was first released, watched his video interview about the incident & also following his posts online.
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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #48 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 05:49am »

on Dec 19th, 2012, 7:48pm, Katterfelto wrote:
With all due respect to Kodak, I doubt they are qualified to speak of the reality of the filmed material. They could examine the film and camera but that proves very little about the set up of the subject. Would examining the film and camera of a magicians performance reveal the trick (if done right) or prove the trick was not possible?


I am not a photo expert but from looking at the negatives, slides, film & camera..one apparently would be able to guess the size of the object, traces of forgery, manipulation & other anamolies that would have been visible if the originals were manipulated. These would make the hoax theories less credible.

on Dec 20th, 2012, 2:43pm, drwu23 wrote:
And what would say hoax if he actually photograped a model craft? It would look genuine as far as the film is concerned so that tells us nothing.


A model craft of 21 feet in size ? Is a model craft of 21 feet in size fit into your theories of hoax ? How would he carry such a big model with all the investigators, ufo enthusiasts running around him and his house in 1975/1976 where he took 1200+ photos? where would he hide these models? How would he hang these models ? who are his accomplices? Why haven't anyone seen any such models till today ? All these questions first need answers before calling the case a hoax.

on Dec 20th, 2012, 2:43pm, drwu23 wrote:
When asked about the actual negatives to all of his pics Meier is evasive or just says they have all been stolen or lost.....isn't that convenient?
I ask again..what's wrong with this picture?
wink


Meier wasn't evasive at all. He mentioned the reasons behind the loss of original negatives/slides & also it was fact known to people around meier & also became evident to the investigators first hand when they were taken to a CIA station in london against their will and the photos were copied and the team were given copies of originals. I have already posted the link to a flowchart of how the original evidence was lost/stolen by outside sources.

on Dec 20th, 2012, 2:55pm, drwu23 wrote:
For anyone interested......

Let's look at the overall scenario in this case.
Why would very advanced aliens come to earth from allegedly the DAL Universe only to contact an obscure Swiss farmer to spread their message ( a somewhat bizarre one at that if you have read the alleged material about their home world and their 'spirituality')?

What's the agenda of the 'aliens' here? Who's going to really pay attention to Meier? What do the aliens hope to accomplish here?
Why do things that cast doubt on him like allegedly give him a ray gun to shoot and take him on a time travel trip?
Certainly the aliens can see this has done nothing but make Meier a cult figure while the rest of the world either could care less or thinks he's a nut.
So why would presumably superior aliens do any of this?




All of your questions can be answered easily by yourself if you have read the ETs mission, their directives & the reason behind choosing meier in contact notes.

on Dec 20th, 2012, 8:21pm, Festivus wrote:
I recall seeing some analysis of the movie film with a "beamship" in flight, done by Bruce Maccabee in fairly recent times. Others had noted the angle of the ship as it swung back and forth seemed to be consistent with a model on a string. Maccabee studied the motion closely and agreed, the "pendulum" motion was real, even though he could detect no sign of a string or fishing line or whatever.


A Refutation of Bruce Maccabee's 1989 Debunking Attempt, and the Episode of the Above-the-treetop Beamship Oscillations
http://www.tjresearch.info/BillyYes.htm
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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #49 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 07:59am »

on Dec 21st, 2012, 05:49am, mahigitam wrote:
I am not a photo expert but from looking at the negatives, slides, film & camera..one apparently would be able to guess the size of the object, traces of forgery, manipulation & other anamolies that would have been visible if the originals were manipulated. These would make the hoax theories less credible.

A model craft of 21 feet in size ? Is a model craft of 21 feet in size fit into your theories of hoax ? How would he carry such a big model with all the investigators, ufo enthusiasts running around him and his house in 1975/1976 where he took 1200+ photos? where would he hide these models? How would he hang these models ? who are his accomplices? Why haven't anyone seen any such models till today ? All these questions first need answers before calling the case a hoax.

Thanks for the reply.

Negative and camera analysis while useful in detecting alteration does not prove the captured subject is always correct in 3D. I'm sure you're familiar with forced perspective giving the effect of false object size and distance relationship. Granted this can often be detected but other times there are only suspicions that do not convince everyone. My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that some of the photos and other material have been shown highly suspect but are written off as not sufficient to bring into question the whole affair. Or more troublesome the mindset that if some is fake it was for a reason or otherwise excusable.

I just started reading the Stevens report and spending some time to better research the whole Meier matter. I recall when I was younger the images made quite an impression on me due to their clarity. The amount of material is overwhelming and knowing what is reliable (from both sides) is daunting. Then there are the complications that take it out of the realm of pure objective study. There are many counter arguments to skeptic points and some valid. However, this is not providing real evidence that any of this is real but rather is attacking the opinion of the opposition. Itís certainly fair game as both sides do it. But in the end are we not left to relying on what may be called faith in what Meier claims in the absence of clear irrefutable evidence of visitations by ET?

A few questions for you if you donít mind.

Did ďKodakĒ do an analysis on original negatives and camera?

How many other independent labs/experts did analysis? Are their findings available?

Were original negatives used by others doing analysis? I understand some were not available or lost.

Who makes the copies of authorized distributed photos and are they made from original negatives?

Iím sure all this is a rehash of discussions and writings over the years but it is difficult finding answers to simple questions that get buried or glossed over in all the debates.
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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #50 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 08:41am »

Wedding Cake, anyone? grin
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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #51 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 1:29pm »

on Dec 21st, 2012, 12:04am, Mythos wrote:
Not sure if you read the above (Katter...) link as it deals with the Photo investigation in a very in-depth and detailed manner, It's amazing the amount of wrong information that is out there and you say there are/were NO negatives is completely wrong, one reason there was no negatives is because Billy (often) shot SLIDE FILM! (Slide Film has no negatives for the non-photo people)

QUOTE: "The next day, on the 29th of March 1976, he exposed two rolls of movie film and four 36-shot rolls of color slides"

Here are a few interesting quotes:
"Even the 60-line poster print, however, was quite spectacular and revealed detail not available in the original with a strong magnifying glass. We still find no evidence of fraud or trickery in any of these photographs so enhanced. On the other hand, we find details revealed that tend more to establish the validity of the story told by the witness."

QUOTE: "Then the print, color copy negatives, and color separation black and white negatives were
carefully examined for evidence of double exposure, photo paste-up, model at short range
suspended on a string, etc., and nothing was found to indicate a hoax
".

QUOTE: "Design Technology concluded that the object in the photograph must have been a large object photographed some distance from the camera."

LINK:
http://archive.org/stream/UfoBillyMeier-PhotoAnalysysReport/UfoBillyMeier-1982-ExtendedReportOfMeierPhotoAnalysis-WendelleCStevens_djvu.txt



I wasn't aware of the 'slide film' but he also took regular pics and those negs still are nowhere to be found...and many have brought this up over the last 30 years.
That coupled with the other obviously hoaxed aspects should make anyone very suspicious.
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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #52 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 1:32pm »

on Dec 21st, 2012, 08:41am, Festivus wrote:
Wedding Cake, anyone? grin


I'll have a slice...... grin

You'd think that would be enough to show people how screwed up this whole 'contact case' is but it's become a religion' to many in their need to believe.
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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #53 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 2:47pm »

...QUOTE: "The next day, on the 29th of March 1976, he exposed two rolls of movie film and four 36-shot rolls of color slides"...

Colour slides are normally sent away for processing. Did this happen in this case ?

HAL
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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #54 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 2:56pm »

on Dec 21st, 2012, 1:32pm, drwu23 wrote:
I'll have a slice...... grin

You'd think that would be enough to show people how screwed up this whole 'contact case' is but it's become a religion' to many in their need to believe.


I thought since we have some Defenders of the Faith here, we might get some insight into what Meier's followers think of the Wedding Cake. For a long time, I wanted the Meier case to be real, but I finally had to admit there is way too much nonsense and not enough real substance there. I don't have a problem with Billy maybe having some weird experiences, or his being an extraordinary person in some way or other, but instead of evidence to support that, we get more noise and more things like the Wedding Cake, which I have long considered just about the silliest thing I've run across in all of Ufology. Think about that! Some pretty rich territory, for sure!

For the record, Meier is still in my gray basket but pretty far down. At the very least, he and his apologists have some serious explaining to do before they can begin to be taken seriously outside their little world. The fake ray gun and the stolen magazine images are icing on the Wedding Cake, and have to be accounted for as well. I don't see much progress there. smiley
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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #55 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 3:34pm »

I've refrained from trying to get into details on a lot of this stuff because it is so very confusing to sort out the who said what's, who analyzed this and that, what was analyzed, ..... I need to research more.

Then there are the denials on the very questionable findings ranging from people swapping images at the development lab, misquotes, lost or stolen items, .... it literally boggles my mind.

That's why I asked the question about Kodak and negatives (and I guess it should have been slides too). I see comments that Kodak analyzed pictures - is that true or not? Should be a simple question to answer. I look at the Stevens report and it's not clear exactly what images were looked at.

I look at the Dean Martin Asket blond girl explanation and to me it does not look like a good match then I read the denial that someone at a lab may have swapped images - which is it? The dinosaur picture looks a better match. We have the laser gun hole in the tree, the writings and accusations to the source of material, the prophecy claims, the infamous wedding cake and it just goes on and on. Bits and pieces all over the place. That's what makes it interesting.

Is Meir himself giving the explanations and counter arguments or is it those around him?
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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #56 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 4:14pm »

on Dec 21st, 2012, 2:56pm, Festivus wrote:
I thought since we have some Defenders of the Faith here, we might get some insight into what Meier's followers think of the Wedding Cake. For a long time, I wanted the Meier case to be real, but I finally had to admit there is way too much nonsense and not enough real substance there. I don't have a problem with Billy maybe having some weird experiences, or his being an extraordinary person in some way or other, but instead of evidence to support that, we get more noise and more things like the Wedding Cake, which I have long considered just about the silliest thing I've run across in all of Ufology. Think about that! Some pretty rich territory, for sure!

For the record, Meier is still in my gray basket but pretty far down. At the very least, he and his apologists have some serious explaining to do before they can begin to be taken seriously outside their little world. The fake ray gun and the stolen magazine images are icing on the Wedding Cake, and have to be accounted for as well. I don't see much progress there. smiley


I totally understood what you mean, Festivus.
Do you remember the famous Plejaren alphabet, which Meier claimed he received from the Plejaren?
http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Plejaren_and_Hebrew_Alphabet_Comparison
Well, compare that with this:
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/angelic.htm
Quote: "The Angelic alphabet, which is also known as the Celestial alphabet, is derived from the Hebrew and Greek alphabets. It was created by Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa during the 16th Century and was used for communication with angels."

Check out the Malachim alphabet as well: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/malachim.htm

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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #57 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 4:40pm »

Isn't the explanation that those alphabets were influenced by the Plejaren? Maybe even the CARET symbols. grin
« Last Edit: Dec 21st, 2012, 4:41pm by MysterEd » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #58 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 4:43pm »

H. (Heh)

Thanks. I think I remember some of that, now that you bring it up. This really is a rich vein of... er, we still don't know for sure what. There's a lot of it, whatever it is.

Every now and again, someone in ufology brings up the notion that characters like Billy are being manipulated by unknown beings of unknown abilities, apparently just to screw with us. Sometimes that seems to rank right up there on my list of explanations for what's really going on. It may even be my current favorite. smiley
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xx Re: Interesting Billy Meier related blog..
« Reply #59 on: Dec 21st, 2012, 4:47pm »

on Dec 21st, 2012, 4:40pm, Katterfelto wrote:
Isn't the explanation that those alphabets were influenced by the Plejaren? Maybe even the CARET symbols. grin


O. M. G.

Those drones are famous for having one arm!

Crap. I don't know if the ARC can withstand a combined assault like that, Captain! Anyone know where DrDil is? This is getting freaky...
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