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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abduction  (Read 53744 times)
drwu23
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #132 on: Feb 4th, 2014, 10:13am »

I don't think 'everyone' assumes that all 'abductees' are 'dumbcluckies', but certainly some involved have psychological issues that need to be addressed by clinical professionals. Whether or not these issues are a result of 'abductions' or the psychological issues lead to the abduction beliefs should be determined on an individual basis....but if the ufo abductee community automatically reject any and all help from professional sources there will continue to be conflict and lack of resolution for those who truly need help.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #133 on: Feb 4th, 2014, 6:55pm »

on Feb 4th, 2014, 10:13am, drwu23 wrote:
I don't think 'everyone' assumes that all 'abductees' are 'dumbcluckies', but certainly some involved have psychological issues that need to be addressed by clinical professionals. Whether or not these issues are a result of 'abductions' or the psychological issues lead to the abduction beliefs should be determined on an individual basis....but if the ufo abductee community automatically reject any and all help from professional sources there will continue to be conflict and lack of resolution for those who truly need help.


Right. One way or another, an appropriate response to trauma is to seek competent and qualified treatment for it. Competent and qualified.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #134 on: Feb 4th, 2014, 7:00pm »

on Feb 4th, 2014, 6:43pm, freyasday wrote:
I see from the opening post of this topic that David M Jacobs is being criticized as not being a good scientist. Does this also mean that he is not an appropriate researcher for questioning individuals to confide in if their particular anomalous tales bear only a minimal similarity to his descriptions of abductees/abduction at www.ufoabduction.com ?


Perhaps you might choose to read such resources as my three-part series, The Bizarre World of Doctor David Jacobs: An Interview and Review, or listen in to tonight's Paranormal Waypoint extended special and decide for yourself. Let me know what ya think.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #135 on: Feb 4th, 2014, 11:01pm »

on Feb 4th, 2014, 6:43pm, freyasday wrote:
I see from the opening post of this topic that David M Jacobs is being criticized as not being a good scientist. Does this also mean that he is not an appropriate researcher for questioning individuals to confide in if their particular anomalous tales bear only a minimal similarity to his descriptions of abductees/abduction at www.ufoabduction.com ?


Hypnotic regression to 'recover' alleged 'abduction' memories has been a suspect tool from day one and many ufologists have written and talked about this including Dr Vallee one of the most informed and experienced ufo researchers still with us.
Dr Jacobs is not a scientist, nor a forensic expert, nor an expert in hypnosis. He is an historian from Temple University. His associate Budd Hopkins , now deceased, was an abstract artist from New York and also not an expert in hypnosis nor any type of forensic investigation or scientific background.
From what I have read over the last few years the problem lies in the fact they they had an agenda being believers in the abduction phenomenon and were simply not qualified regarding scientific methodology and used suspect techniques to gather their data. In other words it was biased data and anecdotal.
That does not mean they are/were unintelligent people but their methods were flawed. This is what Carol Rainey and others have said for some time now. Again this does not mean there might not be something to the 'abduction phenomenon' but that their data ,results, and conclusions are suspect.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #136 on: Feb 5th, 2014, 12:11pm »

Hi, freyasday -

Thanks for checking out the posts. Thanks, too, for letting me know what you thought about them.

I would agree with you that Jacobs and his public personality should not be accepted without questioning motives. I would most definitely say similar for his unsubstantiated claims, in that they should not be accepted at all, much less without questioning them greatly.

I would also agree with drwu23 in that we should not lose sight of the fact Jacobs is not a scientist at all; he is a now retired history professor claiming - falsely, I might add - to respect and follow scientific procedures. Most relevant point.

As for where an abductee should seek competent, qualified support, I would say they should first identify specifically what type of support they are seeking. Does the individual want professional emotional support? ...or are they seeking a thorough investigation of their reported circumstances? I encourage identifying the answers to such questions because they are entirely different types of services.

If emotional support and healing traumatic, disturbing memories is sought, I would invite consideration of seeing a mental health professional. I would also encourage such an individual to ask questions of the potential counselor before committing to schedule an appointment; ask how they feel about the UFO subject, ask if they are open to hearing distress related to the topic and similar such questions. A potential therapy client is entitled to do so, not entirely unlike how one might ask questions before hiring any kind of service provider to undertake work for them. A potential client is also entirely entitled to ask about sliding scale payments if concerned about costs, as such options are often available.

If an investigation of circumstances is desired, many more challenges arise than if seeking emotional healing and support. That is because there is often little to investigate in addition to witness testimony, and the events in question are often in the distant past. Even when this is not the case, substantial financial resources might be required, as well as specific expertise, to examine alleged implants, take xrays, conduct DNA analysis and similar possible avenues of research. That being the case, if I was to undertake such an investigation, I would network among UFO circles and privately enroll the help of specific, credentialed and trusted professionals.

I hope that is helpful. Sincere best wishes.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #137 on: Feb 6th, 2014, 12:46am »

on Feb 4th, 2014, 02:51am, hyundisonata wrote:
I just love how everyone assumes abductees are all dumbcluckies like me who apparently do not have a clue; truth is abductees clearly come from all walks of life from police, military, science and yes even doctors’ nurses and the dreaded psychiatrist. Only problem is that such information is hidden on sites such as this due to every one being anonymous unless like Greer cashing in on the subject, there are groups for near every complaint and most get support from government i.e. NHS UK and as the abductee trauma has been around a lot longer than the internet then why has there never been any real help available, why is it ignored by the doctrine you so strongly support apart from them claiming it is mental health issues. Could it be because it is not a mental health issue that if investigated by these trained personnel expose it as a reality, yes the trauma that same as most aftermath problems that victims of crime suffer needs addressing in the manner you portray but the cause unlike murder rape etc is left a blank space when it comes to ET this indicates they are treating the cause as mental illness and not as a physical crime against the person, so no matter how much importance the need for such is shouted , until the cause is accepted as a reality and a crime it is a pointless exercise.


BINGO!

I love how "everyone" continually tries to discredit Hopkins and Jacobs, just because they were not clinically trained scientists, and wanting everyone to believe that every patient they worked with made completely false statements! Hundreds and hundreds of patients: none of them abducted, they were simply victims of the Artist and the Historian!

I also love how people fail to bring up the UFO "darling" Researcher John Mack was also NOT clinically trained, yet somehow managed to come up with very similar results, in his hypnosis sessions!

I also love how people fail to bring up the many clinically trained researchers, who have come up with very similar results in their hypnosis sessions!

I also love how people like to only bring up things that support their position while leaving out the things that detract from it!

I also love how these detractors ignore or criticize abductees as being liars, mentally ill, our made to believe they were abducted by some unclinically trained crack pot.

spread the love....
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #138 on: Feb 6th, 2014, 01:34am »

Reading Freyasdays post was interesting, over the years I have talked with quite a few people claiming abduction and most have been in the sleeping hours. When listening to their stories I have found that as in Freys story they never left their bed even though they believe they had. as in Frey’s story ET in a visitation manipulates the mind so if ET wants you to believe your sitting on a snow covered mountain then you will believe it really happened but in reality your still tucked up in bed only you have this alien standing next to you. I see two scenarios that are happening, visitation in your home and abduction when in active hours and as we see in Frey’s story she or he as no real information given is experiencing both scenarios, I myself have only experienced abduction but others I have spoken with understand they where still in bed and if it was not for their partner confirming the alien presence they would have doubted the experience and looked upon it as a dream or abduction as they appeared to leave their home. How ET manages to come and go I can only speculate due to the damage caused when such a visitation had gone wrong for ET and that footprint still exists intact to this day, as for the manipulation of the mind I have experienced such and it is scary when you dissect it after the incident and realize how easily they can take over your mind even at a distance and in my case I would estimate at least fifty yards from them when it started which is some feat not to be taken lightly.
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=memberblogs&action=display&num=1391655244

Couldn’t agree more Mythos and I would like this form of abduction entered into the law books along with all the other criminal laws that exist then maybe it will be taken seriously and investigated properly.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #139 on: Feb 6th, 2014, 04:13am »

Jjflash, kudos on a long and informative thread here! I agree on the need for any therapist dealing with alien abductees to have proper credentials, be it in Psychology or Psychiatry. (Because of the likelyhood part of this experience entails serious psychological trauma.)

My addition is that such professional health care provider / doctor also must have some background, no 'credential' but of a demonstrated interest/affinity with the abduction experience* and with the enigma of extraterrestrial visitors. To prevent giving the impression he/she is only looking for a possible diagnosis of psychopathology.

Simply, imo a good abduction therapist must be prepared to deal with both an emerging mental disorder/psychosis, and with a classical alien abduction experience. Actually also with a combination of both, because the real deal is bound to mess up abductees' life some.

[*) Not because there's a known Alien Abduction Disorder, or UFOlogy is a scientific field, but on the grounds patients/clients present themselves with an unusual/rare experience. There are non-abduction precedents for such special focus, for instance patients reporting pre- and perinatal (relating to being in the womb and getting born) memories, conscious and extremely painful memories of surgical procedures where anesthesia failed, and accounts of a Near Death Experience.]


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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #140 on: Feb 6th, 2014, 11:07am »

PURR,

THIS WAS A TOPIC I HAD PLANNED TO BROACH AND IT APPEARS YOU HAVE BROKEN THE ICE FOR MY INPUT.
OUT OF 297 PYCHOLOGICAL DIAGNOSES...CAN ONE POINT TO A CLEAR CLINICAL TEST FOR EACH DIAGNOSIS TO JUSTIFY SAME...WHICH IN FACT IS UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED BY PEER REVIEW...THAT BEING A MINOR POINT IN THE MENAGERIE OF SUCH ENDEAVORS AND LET'S FURTHER CONSIDER THE ACADEMIC APPROACH TO ONE WHOM MAY HAVE HAD AN UFOLOGICAL ENCOUNTER WHICH HAS LEFT LINGERING FEARS~APPREHENSION~CONFUSION AND A QUEST FOR ANSWERS.

ONE MUST FIRST CONSIDER TRADITIONAL ACADEMIA HAS FROWNED UPON SUCH CONSIDERATION OF THE EXISTENCE OF THIS UFOLOGICAL PHENOMENA WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DR.JOHN MACK {WITH A PEDIGREED EDUCTATION}. MOREOVER, LOOK AT HOW HIS COLLEAGUES TREATED HIM~PEERED PRESSURED HIM BEYOND PROFESSIONAL BOUNDARIES... BUT PRIOR TO HIS AFFINITY TO UFOLOGICAL ANALYSIS OF ABDUCTEES~HE WAS THE "GOLDEN BOY"...THE HERD MENTALLITY!!!...THEY OSTRACIZED HIM MUCH LIKE THEY DO WITH THOSE EXPERIENCING SUCH PHENOMENA!

THEREFORE...TRADITIONAL ACADEMIA WITH RARE EXCEPTIONS WOULD FIRST AND FOREMOST NOT BE RECEPTIVE TO SUCH EXPERIENCES (ALTHOUGH WOULD SCHEDULE AND BILL $$$) AND BY-IN-LARGE WOULD STATE SUCH IS REALLY A MANIFESTION IN ONES MIND{AND IN SOME INSTANCES SUCH IS THE CASE}...BUT THOSE WHOM HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN SOMETHING...ALONG THE LINES OF J.ALLEN HYNEK'S 5% OF UNEXPLAINABLE UNKNOWNS...WHAT CAN SUCH HEALTH PROFESSIONAL OFFER OTHER THAN MEDS~BEHAVIORAL MODIFICATION~AND PRONOUNCED ADJUSTMENTS OF COPING SKILLS...THUS...IF ONE WERE TO RELY ON SUCH OPINIONS~THERE REMIANS MUCH TO BE DESIRED FOR THOSE IN THE FOG OF UFOLOGICAL ENCOUNTERS AT WHAT EVER LEVEL...MED EM UP~TELL EM YA REALLY DIDN'T SEE WHAT YOU THOUGHT YOU SAW~AND LET'S TRY THESE COPING EXERCISES huh

THE ABOVE MENTIONED IS WHY FORUMS LIKE THESE SEEM TO CONTINUE AND IN SOME INSTANCES FLOURISH AS THOSE WHOM ARE IN THE QUAGMIRE OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT MAY HAVE HAPPENED~FIND MORE SYMPATHETIC VOICES~ FOR A PHENOMENA THAT HAS EXISTED FOR QUITE SOME TIME...HIDDEN IN THE PAPAL VAULTS...SEQUESTERED IN THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY...CATACOMBED IN NASA...THERE ARE THOSE WHOM KNOW!

WHY HAS SUCH NOT MET THE SUNSHINE OF GLOBAL ACCEPTANCE~FEAR~PURE AND SIMPLE...OF THE POTENTIAL LOSS OF THOSE VESTED TABOOS WHICH HAS AMASSED MASSIVE FORTUNES...ALL ON THE BACK OF PERPETUATIONING THIS ILLUSION SUCH IS A FIGMENT OF ONES IMAGINATION~TELL THAT TO BETTY AND BARNEY HILL~TELL THAT TO JAMES PENNESTON AND THOSE AT RENDELSHAM FOREST...AND WHO KNOWS HOW MANY OTHERS JUST LIKE THEM BUT NEVER HAD THE MEDIA HYPE TO CATAPULT THEIR STORY TO THE COURT OF DIGITAL OPINION...OR MEDIA OSTRICIZATION!

SOOOO...IS GOING TO A SHRINK POST FACTO FROM AND ENCOUNTER LIKE BEING AT A GROCERY STORE POST DISASTER AFTER HUNDREDS MADE A MAD DASH TO GET BREAD AND YOU GET THERE...AND ONLY ONE LOAF IS LEFT...AND ONE IS FORCED TO TAKE SAME~IMHO~ THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!...AND HEREIN LIES THE TRAGEDY OF IT ALL wink

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #141 on: Feb 7th, 2014, 12:56pm »

Excellent post ZETAR you have a way with words especially when it comes to reality, Freyasday if you believe your experience to be true then you do not need others approval . There are no experts we are all fumbling in the dark so be positive as you know what is happening in your life not some faceless person hiding behind a keyboard especially those intent on malice and ridicule as you discovered on your previous site. What I do suggest to others claiming abduction and visitation is that they confide in close family members that way you gather support from trusted people and as I have found you will probably find they are enduring a similar experience only like most they will feel isolated and keep quiet hoping it will go away.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #142 on: Feb 7th, 2014, 8:15pm »

Hello purr, ZETAR and all,

Thanks for your input. The topic could be discussed at length from many perspectives. That being the case, I would like to please choose a single topic for further consideration in this post, mental health services. Thanks for following along.

The scientific community and the medical profession is not perfection. There are scandals, corruption and incompetence. Purr's perspectives and ZETAR's points are worthy of consideration, and one should indeed avoid incompetent and biased services whatever their ailment and need for treatment. I would respectfully point out, however, that drwu23's perspectives are equally worthy of consideration.

ZETAR's presented perspective on the treatment of self-described abductees within the mental health industry, no matter how accurate it may or may not be to some specific circumstances, is a partial and incomplete representation of the industry as a whole. It is my confident understanding that a competent psychoanalyst does not express judgment of the perceptions of the client. Therapy is not about the story, it's about healing the trauma surrounding the story, assisting the client in functioning more healthily in their daily lives.

Key point here, please: There is a clear and specific difference between treating trauma and conducting an investigation. A mental health counselor, when hired to treat trauma and provide emotional support, is not seeking to either validate or invalidate the claims of the client. They are not conducting an investigation.

I therefore present for consideration that the middle ground is the rational choice; moderation. While one would not want a therapist totally opposed to entertaining the UFO subject, neither would they want one predisposed to validating alleged alien abduction. The latter of the two is not psychoanalysis.

To summarize... All mental health therapists are not bad. Neither are they all good. One could find a competent one that provides quality services and fits for them. It happens all the time.

If one were to get their leg broken and perceived it took place during an abduction, there would be little doubt they should seek proper medical treatment. A competent argument could be made that similar can be said for the often described mental distress sustained during reported abductions. It just involves a different kind of doctor.

I'd like to please remind everyone that I am not exploring the validity of reports of high strangeness. I have made an effort to consider specific aspects of research of alleged alien abduction. Please make a reasonable effort to differentiate, as the two are not synonymous.

In closing, I'd like to thank purr and ZETAR, as well as others, for expressing themselves in reasonable manners. Debate, when conducted intelligently, is entertaining and interesting. Thanks for providing examples.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #143 on: Feb 7th, 2014, 8:24pm »

Hi, freyasday -

As you are apparently finding, you will come across a wide variety of individuals promoting an even wider variety of points of view. Many of them will claim their views to be fact, even though their perspectives will often be in conflict and mutually exclusive to one another. Personally, I have come to exercise what I think to be reasonable skepticism in awaiting verification of claims.

Good luck to you in finding what you are seeking. Be well.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #144 on: Feb 7th, 2014, 8:47pm »

on Feb 7th, 2014, 8:15pm, jjflash wrote:
I'd like to please remind everyone that I am not exploring the validity of reports of high strangeness. I have made an effort to consider specific aspects of research of alleged alien abduction. Please make a reasonable effort to differentiate, as the two are not synonymous.


Reminds me of the old adage that goes something like:

If you can't Attack the Message:

Attack the Messenger...

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #145 on: Feb 8th, 2014, 06:23am »

JJflash,

...Key point here, please: There is a clear and specific difference between treating trauma and conducting an investigation. A mental health counselor, when hired to treat trauma and provide emotional support, is not seeking to either validate or invalidate the claims of the client. They are not conducting an investigation...

I would disagree.

The therapist is defiantly conducting an investigation. How else is he/she to get to the source of the patients anxiety ?

If the patient is, in whatever form, delusional, then surely it is the therapists job to guide the patient to see that he/she is mistaken and to enable them to admit this mistake and move on.

HAL
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #146 on: Feb 8th, 2014, 11:31am »

on Feb 8th, 2014, 06:23am, INT21 wrote:
JJflash,

...Key point here, please: There is a clear and specific difference between treating trauma and conducting an investigation. A mental health counselor, when hired to treat trauma and provide emotional support, is not seeking to either validate or invalidate the claims of the client. They are not conducting an investigation...

I would disagree.

The therapist is defiantly conducting an investigation. How else is he/she to get to the source of the patients anxiety ?

If the patient is, in whatever form, delusional, then surely it is the therapists job to guide the patient to see that he/she is mistaken and to enable them to admit this mistake and move on.

HAL
INT21


In my admittedly professionally unqualified opinion, HAL, I would say one could find circumstances in which your opinion might apply. However, I remain convinced of my original statements in the context they were intended. I am extremely confident that a competent, qualified mental health counselor is not the least bit professionally interested in either validating or invalidating claims of alleged alien abduction during the course of treating trauma. They are not conducting a UFO investigation.

I would highly recommend interested parties research the subject matter further for themselves. A good overview is provided by Helpguide.org, Emotional and Psychological Trauma: Symptoms, Treatment and Recovery.
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