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 poll_icon  Poll  Poll Question: What will be end result of federal investigations on the above lines?
Nothing. Pure political theater. VotesVotesVotes 4 (40%)
Trump cleared. Obama admin. cleared. VotesImageVotes 0 (0%)
Trump cleared. Obama admin faces charges. VotesVotesVotes 3 (30%)
Trump cleared, but his staff faces charges. VotesVotesVotes 1 (10%)
Trump impeached. Obama admin cleared. VotesVotesVotes 1 (10%)
Trump impeached. Obama admin faces charges. VotesImageVotes 0 (0%)
Congress and White House gutted. VotesVotesVotes 1 (10%)
Trump resigns. VotesImageVotes 0 (0%)
Total votes: 10  
 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results  (Read 1045 times)
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xx Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Thread started on: Mar 26th, 2017, 02:44am »

I thought i'd kick off this poll, because as has been seen over the past month or so, there seems to be 2 camps, mainly partisan, that holds to a particular set of theories each.

1) Team Trump feels that White House members loyal to Obama, possibly under specific direction of Obama, have been illegally obstructing, surveilling, and leaking information against Trump and his staff. If true, these would be fairly severe crimes; and I would want the perpetrators to be punished as the law merits. As well, Team Trump feels that the media and political opponents on the left are deliberately using propaganda and fake news to smear the administration, to put pressure on Congress to usurp control of Trump.

2) Team anti-Trump (mainly democrats, but also some mainstream republicans) feels that there is more than just amicability toward Russian interests within the Trump administration. Depending upon who you ask, there's "compromised", collusion, or at the least, overstepping the boundaries of what's allowed when negotiating (ie. Flynn and Logan Act). Those against Trump feel that Trump administration is covering up any possible malfeasance, and has been doing so for most of Trump's term so far.

"Evidence" of each has been posted ad nauseum. So let's see how Casebook members feel about this after having reviewed what's been presented so far.

UPDATE: this is from what appears to be a LEFT of center blog, so review with that in mind, but it pertains to Michael Flynn, who is rumored to be talking to the FBI this week.
http://americablog.com/2017/03/national-enquirer-brands-flynn-russian-spy-trump-just-threw-flynn-bus.html

I'd ask a separate poll question on whether this changes your mind, or if it's just more evidence of propaganda, but... let's just stick with the above for now.

This is, after all, for posterity's sake tongue
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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #1 on: Mar 26th, 2017, 07:18am »

on Mar 26th, 2017, 02:44am, Reasoner wrote:
I thought i'd kick off this poll, because as has been seen over the past month or so, there seems to be 2 camps, mainly partisan, that holds to a particular set of theories each.

1) Team Trump feels that White House members loyal to Obama, possibly under specific direction of Obama, have been illegally obstructing, surveilling, and leaking information against Trump and his staff. If true, these would be fairly severe crimes; and I would want the perpetrators to be punished as the law merits. As well, Team Trump feels that the media and political opponents on the left are deliberately using propaganda and fake news to smear the administration, to put pressure on Congress to usurp control of Trump.

2) Team anti-Trump (mainly democrats, but also some mainstream republicans) feels that there is more than just amicability toward Russian interests within the Trump administration. Depending upon who you ask, there's "compromised", collusion, or at the least, overstepping the boundaries of what's allowed when negotiating (ie. Flynn and Logan Act). Those against Trump feel that Trump administration is covering up any possible malfeasance, and has been doing so for most of Trump's term so far.

"Evidence" of each has been posted ad nauseum. So let's see how Casebook members feel about this after having reviewed what's been presented so far.

UPDATE: this is from what appears to be a LEFT of center blog, so review with that in mind, but it pertains to Michael Flynn, who is rumored to be talking to the FBI this week.
http://americablog.com/2017/03/national-enquirer-brands-flynn-russian-spy-trump-just-threw-flynn-bus.html

I'd ask a separate poll question on whether this changes your mind, or if it's just more evidence of propaganda, but... let's just stick with the above for now.

This is, after all, for posterity's sake tongue


Hi Reasoner, I voted Trump cleared, staff facing charges. I don't know. But I'm trying to be an optimist here, because some of your choices on offer below that one to the Dutch would equal a damaged/weakened America, and we don't like that in the Netherlands smiley!

There's some logic in this: if you work for the President you must be willing to take the heat (if he gets in trouble), even step into the line of fire so to speak. Flynn isn't so much 'thrown under a bus' as accused of stuff of which the Trump camp knows in advance it won't stick. But if laws were broken, proven so, by the various campaign period Russia contacts with this POTUS' team, I expect them to sacrifice themselves. Trump can continue, but not as a happy camper I'm sure.

Obama's Tap/Surveillance tweets (not charges!)... nothing to it imo. Trumpian behavior. Perhaps we'll get used to it. Unending antics will make Trevor Noah most happy, great material for Daily Show (watched arduously by me, daily). I hope one day we'll all look back on Trump's term(s) and have a good lark.


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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #2 on: Mar 26th, 2017, 08:36am »

2 yr years of wiretaps where judges including roberts and scalia and Trump before he was prez....tell me a lot of people are going to jail..I still see that lingering hope Trump resigns is evident..but thats your right.. grin..

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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #3 on: Mar 27th, 2017, 02:13am »

on Mar 26th, 2017, 08:36am, Sys_Config wrote:
2 yr years of wiretaps where judges including roberts and scalia and Trump before he was prez....tell me a lot of people are going to jail..I still see that lingering hope Trump resigns is evident..but thats your right.. grin..



2 years of wiretaps ... on Trump ... specifically. And illegally?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/week-trumps-wiretap-accusation-died-154753274.html

Again, if a further investigation uncovers it and shows that to be true, I hope and expect that those responsible (all the way up) are brought to justice. From last week's admissions and testimonies, the purposeful wiretapping/surveillance of Trump appears to be untrue. Nunes tried to hint at it being something, but then backtracked any claims that it could be true. In terms of wishful thinking, that's all there appears to be on Trump being surveilled, and that wishful thinking keeps coming up on far right "news" services as editorializing or conspiracy charts.

As far as wishful thinking and Trump resigning, I do wish he'd resign. But I'm a realist. Whether Trump is guilty of anything or not, I highly doubt he'd resign, as that doesn't seem to line up with his character. Resigning would be an admission that he is somehow wrong, or unfit; and the man cannot apologize for anything. That being said, if Trump isn't guilty of anything and isn't going to resign, impeachment is completely unreasonable. I cannot stand people trotting out "Impeach!" just because they disagree with a leader's policy. I think he's incompetent, but evidently if you are beholden to him, you think otherwise.
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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #4 on: Mar 27th, 2017, 03:09am »

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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #5 on: Mar 27th, 2017, 03:12am »

FreedomWatch are right wing hacks.
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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #6 on: Mar 27th, 2017, 03:15am »

Yes and that certainly beats anything yahoo says and which helped fan the flames of Russia hysteria whilst it itself scanned millions of email clients for the government..just to find one line of text..think about that..Call them what you may..but for sure yahoo are shills.
http://heavy.com/tech/2016/10/yahoo-emails-nsa-secret-government-privacy-marissa-mayer-yahoo-mail/
on Mar 27th, 2017, 03:09am, Sys_Config wrote:

Nunes himself blew off meeting with this Atty..until he could not..and now we have this flurry of activity with comey...Oh yes..things were done improperly..and why Nunes saved his own arse and ran to Trump grin
I don't expect anyone to keep up with this..I'm retired and do this 24/7 as amusement. grin
« Last Edit: Mar 27th, 2017, 03:25am by Sys_Config » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #7 on: Mar 27th, 2017, 12:34pm »

Citing yahoo is indeed sloppy, and I did so in haste, because I didn't want to go trolling the net looking for the story hosted elsewhere. I scanned the article, it looked legit enough as a news break story, and posted the link here. I do usually vet better, but what the heck, you didn't bother looking at my link.

I summarily dismissed your youtube post, so I could expect the same.

As far as a story that Yahoo posted, your argument that Yahoo is a government mouthpiece is fatuous. The email and news divisions are separate. That Yahoo complied with a government request is different than volunteering information to the government. Besides that, Yahoo is a crappy news aggregator with precious little journalism proffered themselves. The comment trolls are legendarily ridiculous.

Also, as an argument, saying "your news is crappy too" doesn't mitigate your use of junk news. FreedomWatch isn't just biased, they are agenda-driven. They cherry pick news and twist facts to shoehorn it into a conservative narrative. Nearly all news will have bias to it, but bias can be ascertained and translated by a smart audience. Agenda perverts news, changing the context of the facts to falsely present reality. FreedomWatch is akin to DailyKos in this regard.

In this case, Larry Klayman is pointedly claiming that the FBI has been tapping Trump and his team, and that Nunes has admitted that there was this wide surveillance. That is EXACTLY what Nunes initially claimed with the caveat "The collection was incidental, and the collection was lawfully done." In a later exchange, Nunes emphasized that there was no evidence of purposeful intel collection on Trump or his team.

You can't just ignore that. But Klayman seemingly is. He's conflating the initial claims and going in depth about it and pointing at Comey doing something nefarious, without addressing those admissions. He's at the point of trying to investigate the investigators. Of course. So hack. Agenda. Dissembling.
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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #8 on: Mar 28th, 2017, 9:13pm »

You know, since 2016, the media has gone so loopy that I just don't read many mainstream media reports anymore. If a news report is true, then it will stick and more information will come out about it in the days or weeks after.

It seems this is how it is going to be now, so we better get used to re-adjusting how we all filter the news. I do not jump on news anymore. "This just in..." has been so manipulated to get people's emotions stirred up that it has become more "cry wolf"

The media for all sides have gone so far off that it would take the president, congress, the senate, the fbi, the cia, the nsa, the supreme court, and a whole slew of scientists to convince anyone of anything that resembles the actual truth anymore... and that is even if you trust all of those that I stated

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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #9 on: May 11th, 2017, 1:16pm »

Dropping this link for research purposes. It seems to be a Dutch blog, but I'm not in a position to yet vet this. Any resident Netherlanders know more on this?

https://dutchreview.com/news/international-news/trump-money-laundering-in-the-netherlands/

Oh. Also there's a rumor that the Fed's are raiding GOP fundraising headquarters. Some Twitter noise.
« Last Edit: May 11th, 2017, 1:17pm by Reasoner » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #10 on: May 11th, 2017, 1:37pm »

on May 11th, 2017, 1:16pm, Reasoner wrote:
Dropping this link for research purposes. It seems to be a Dutch blog, but I'm not in a position to yet vet this. Any resident Netherlanders know more on this?

https://dutchreview.com/news/international-news/trump-money-laundering-in-the-netherlands/

Oh. Also there's a rumor that the Fed's are raiding GOP fundraising headquarters. Some Twitter noise.


Not HQ, but office in Maryland.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jemillerwbal/status/862714093899325440
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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #11 on: May 11th, 2017, 2:00pm »

http://www.wbaltv.com/article/fbi-searching-annapolis-fundraiserconsulting-firm/9639787/

More details. It's Fed's. Could be unrelated to the other stuff, since Bayrock is out of New York (I think).
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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #12 on: May 11th, 2017, 9:49pm »

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/332991-fbi-raids-office-of-gop-consulting-firm-in-maryland

So, this looks to be completely unrelated to the thread's scandal/non-scandal. This operation is just your run of the mill scam PAC.
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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #13 on: May 12th, 2017, 12:44am »

Hi John..you might like this kids take on a few things..I think its its good to multi-discern ..
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xx Re: Treason and Wiretap Investigation Results
« Reply #14 on: May 13th, 2017, 11:00pm »

on May 12th, 2017, 12:44am, Sys_Config wrote:
Hi John..you might like this kids take on a few things..I think its its good to multi-discern ..


Thank you, Sys. I'll take a look at it in a bit. Trying to juggle home life duties with pathological web browsing.

In the meantime:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/13/world/prevezon-settlement/index.html

I had heard the Feds were looking into Russian Mob stuff, but hadn't been following closely. With the speed of things going this last week (and maybe related to the raid in Annapolis?), there may be a lot of disparate pieces starting to fit together.

The case was abruptly brought to a close late Friday, with Monday being the date of the trial start. In the article, some worried that there were political forces brought to bear to close the case. There's a number of ways to look at it though.
a) Maybe there was some internal political pressure to make it go away.
b) Maybe there was no pressure whatsoever, and this is best the Feds felt they could do with the case.
c) Maybe deals were cut, which brought this case to a close... in return for something else. Possibly testimony for another case?
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