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#5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH
Post by oljack666 on Aug 27th, 2007, 9:06pm


PREVIOUS DRONEACCOUNTS AND ISAAC
Chronological Order


Unknown location - June 29, 2007 - by Anonymous
http://www.ufocasebook.com/anonymousstrangecraft.html

Palo Alto, CA - June 26, 2007 – Isaac
Whistle blowing report with pictures, linguistic primers and reports from
previous employment with PACL (Palo Alto CARET Laboratory)
CARET (Commercial Applications Research for Extra-terrestrial Technology)
http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/

Near Maxwell AFB - June 25, 2007 - Ted Connors.
http://www.earthfiles333.com/earthfiles/Episode19mp3.html
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1279&category=Environment

Round Hill - June 19, 2007 - Dawn Raimond
http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/article/20070706/REGION/107060071

Big Basin - June 5, 2007 - by Ty and other witnesses
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1270&category=Environment

Big Basin - June 5, 2007 - by Stephen and other witnesses
http://www.ufocasebook.com/bigbasin.html

Capitola - May 15, 2007 - by Rajman and other witnesses
http://www.ufocasebook.com/strangecraft3.html

Bakersfield California – May 6, 2007 - Chad and multiple witnesses
http://www.ufocasebook.com/strangecraftphotos.html

Lake Tahoe - May 5, 2007 - Anonymous husband and wife
http://www.ufocasebook.com/strangecraftlaketahoe.html

Yosemite National Park - June 10, 2006 - Three witnesses
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1265&category=Environment
http://www.earthfiles.com/Images/news/D/DroneYosemiteSketches052307x.jpg

Birmingham Alabama - May 2006 - John Smith
http://www.earthfiles333.com/earthfiles/Episode17mp3.html
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1253&category=Environment

Northridge, CA - May 2006 – Robert Mariotti
http://www.earthfiles333.com/earthfiles/Episode18mp3.html

Sequoia National Forest - May 25th, 2005 - Shirley
http://www.earthfiles333.com/earthfiles/mp3files/highbandwidth/episode17high.mp3
http://www.ufocasebook.com/lettersstrangecraft.html

Sitgreaves National Forest, Arizona - October 1995, Ned White
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1275&category=Environment

Barksdale AFB, Louisiana - 1987 Airshow - Anonymous witnesses
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1258&category=Environment
http://www.earthfiles333.com/earthfiles/Episode17mp3.html


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 27th, 2007, 9:32pm

Drewlac said:
Quote:
For what its worth LMH will be on C2C Friday night; however, she'll be discussing the Hill case. Sharing the original hypnosis audio
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2007/08/31.html

Gonna try calling in to ask about the other high rez photos, and why isn't she sharing those.


That would be great, Drew. Let's see her give that phony response on national radio!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Aug 27th, 2007, 10:03pm

I've been keeping up with the reading but not able to sit down and post as I've had a houseful of "20 somethings" all week. The last one heads back to Chicago tomorrow - yesss! I love my kids, but I love my quiet time, too smiley! I apologize in advance for the blanket post, it would take me forever to respond to individual ones.

I commiserate with you all on the lack of drone activity. The only thing I'd like to toss into the ring is a sense (which seems to be playing out) that control of this "unveiling" (disclosure) is not in the hands of man. Granted, we're all extremely focused on the drones, but have you all been following the activity in England? It's mind boggling the number of sightings - the majority of them photographed - that have been going on over there (check out all the new threads started here over the past few days). Canada's had a wave as well. Activity in the Midwestern US and Australia has also picked up. When you look at the bigger picture it's really pretty exciting, not to mention encouraging. So, just something to keep in mind - the government may be in control of certain information, but they aren't in control of these craft.

I'm afraid that the mainstream media is going to avoid this until it's literally in their face. If things keep building the way they are, that may happen sooner rather than later. I still haven't given up on "Isaac". The silence, as they say, is deafening. Perhaps it's just the calm before the storm. I am really troubled by the MUFON folks, however, very disappointed. They seem to have lost something in their effort to gain "respectability". They've lost their edge, and the edge is were you have to go if you ever expect to find answers. They're also being dwarfed by all of the new UFO investigative sites that have sprung up on the web. About the only thing they'll be able to claim as time goes by is that they're the "oldest" UFO group. They certainly aren't the best, not by a long shot. Someone here said it best awhile ago, they've become UFO historians. We're leading the charge, friends, plain and simple.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by figneutron on Aug 27th, 2007, 10:41pm

Amen, Mark on the media and on MUFON. MUFON lost me years ago when they turned thumbs down on Ed Walters in Gulf Breeze.

on Aug 27th, 2007, 10:03pm, MarkM wrote:
I've been keeping up with the reading but not able to sit down and post as I've had a houseful of "20 somethings" all week. The last one heads back to Chicago tomorrow - yesss! I love my kids, but I love my quiet time, too smiley! I apologize in advance for the blanket post, it would take me forever to respond to individual ones.

I commiserate with you all on the lack of drone activity. The only thing I'd like to toss into the ring is a sense (which seems to be playing out) that control of this "unveiling" (disclosure) is not in the hands of man. Granted, we're all extremely focused on the drones, but have you all been following the activity in England? It's mind boggling the number of sightings - the majority of them photographed - that have been going on over there (check out all the new threads started here over the past few days). Canada's had a wave as well. Activity in the Midwestern US and Australia has also picked up. When you look at the bigger picture it's really pretty exciting, not to mention encouraging. So, just something to keep in mind - the government may be in control of certain information, but they aren't in control of these craft.

I'm afraid that the mainstream media is going to avoid this until it's literally in their face. If things keep building the way they are, that may happen sooner rather than later. I still haven't given up on "Isaac". The silence, as they say, is deafening. Perhaps it's just the calm before the storm. I am really troubled by the MUFON folks, however, very disappointed. They seem to have lost something in their effort to gain "respectability". They've lost their edge, and the edge is were you have to go if you ever expect to find answers. They're also being dwarfed by all of the new UFO investigative sites that have sprung up on the web. About the only thing they'll be able to claim as time goes by is that they're the "oldest" UFO group. They certainly aren't the best, not by a long shot. Someone here said it best awhile ago, they've become UFO historians. We're leading the charge, friends, plain and simple.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by starsigndavid on Aug 28th, 2007, 12:52am

I have had many pleasant telephone conversations with Steve Murillo at MUFON [S.CA DIRECTOR] and exchanged umpteen emails with him over the past year. However, he will not respond to anything I have sent about the drone phenomenon. He is a pretty open minded guy, but MUFON has just clamped down the lid on this and I can't do anything to help pry it off! A REAL DISAPPOINTMENT!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by urantia606 on Aug 28th, 2007, 09:06am

on Aug 28th, 2007, 12:52am, starsigndavid wrote:
I have had many pleasant telephone conversations with Steve Murillo at MUFON [S.CA DIRECTOR] and exchanged umpteen emails with him over the past year. However, he will not respond to anything I have sent about the drone phenomenon. He is a pretty open minded guy, but MUFON has just clamped down the lid on this and I can't do anything to help pry it off! A REAL DISAPPOINTMENT!


I do not understand your post, Dave.

Have you talked with him on the phone about the drones? If not...why not?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 28th, 2007, 09:20am

In the middle of that melee on the mufon forum somebody deleted one of my posts. I don't why it was done. There was nothing inflammatory in it only a very big point and a little humor. It seemed to disappear about the time the mod showed up.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Aug 28th, 2007, 09:33am

HI MARKM;its nice to hear you say that man is not in control of those crafts. very important fact that some do not pay atention to. mebe if the drones information came to us by way of Iraq then the media would probly give ti the atention the drones deserve. not to be harsh. yet truth is truth.hi i have to say it again . take a look on the main page 08-28-07 ufo over paris france, its got to be a drone leaving. what do you all think. wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 28th, 2007, 10:19am

Hey all you dronies:

Look at this recent UK sighting... a new thing to analyze!

http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=unitedkingdom&num=1188241342&start=45#1188313105
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 28th, 2007, 11:35am

on Aug 28th, 2007, 11:05am, Atrueoriginall wrote:
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=unitedkingdom&num=1188241342&start=45#1188313105

Silly me clicked the link above and ended up posting in that thread. Oops. lol

Whatever it was, was pretty far up in the sky. I say it's a flock of geese. I went into images today in Google and I looked for all of the flocks I could find in the night, took them into my computer and zoomed in and those pictures have the same pixel action that I had on many of the birds.

Now, if you were to go into Mikey's MySpace, you'll a see a video where they're messing around on the street probably outside of his house. The sky is pitch black but there are a lot of orange and red affects from street lighting. Just iffy is all. There's two other reasons I don't think its real but I don't want to embarrass anyone so I won't say. lol
.


I don't think it looks like birds.... but I am not saying it's real or not... I am just interested in analyzing it.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by figneutron on Aug 28th, 2007, 2:27pm

Is the sighting over Paris reported on this site 8-28-07
a hoax? Regardless, the way it leaves the screen is exciting and imaginative. The two others today are very intriguing. I think we've got work to do, fellow ufologists.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Aug 28th, 2007, 4:50pm

on Aug 28th, 2007, 2:27pm, figneutron wrote:
Is the sighting over Paris reported on this site 8-28-07
a hoax? Regardless, the way it leaves the screen is exciting and imaginative. The two others today are very intriguing. I think we've got work to do, fellow ufologists.


That video is not really new... the other one from the same author implies it's all CG.

http://www.youtube.com/user/grosdada6

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Aug 28th, 2007, 5:31pm

on Aug 28th, 2007, 4:50pm, nekitamo wrote:
That video is not really new... the other one from the same author implies it's all CG.

http://www.youtube.com/user/grosdada6
yes we know .not saying real or fake. looks to me and doing what a drone may do.86,949 views. grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Arkhangels on Aug 28th, 2007, 7:03pm

Just one interesting point, about a website I found in the internet:

Scott Peden.
Scott Peden is a photographer, plant expert (or "nut" to use Scott's technical term), and guide, who loves sharing the wonders and secrets of nature with others. Most of his earlier training was in the year-round observation of what plants do though out their cycles of life.

Scott leads a half-day walk each month at Big Basin State Park. He is in process of cataloging, in pictures, the cycles of the plants, on selected trails. See some of Scott's photos at flickr.

In 2006, Scott was appointed trainer of the Semper Virens docents in identification of wildflowers and plants of the coast redwood region at Castle Rock and Big Basin State Parks.

http://www.icogitate.com/~tree/redwood.trail.intro.htm

In this page you can find all of them:http://www.icogitate.com/~tree/bio.ac49.htm#ScottPeden

Maybe our Stephen is there... Would be a good thing found him to get an interview with him...
Other good thing would be ask to those guys ih this website if they ever saw something weird there, they have every week trips to BigBasin.

Regards
Ark
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by onthefence55 on Aug 28th, 2007, 7:16pm

on Aug 28th, 2007, 6:35pm, Latitude wrote:
This ad was on Isaac's website. I guess it automatically finds ufo related stuff.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330158347921&ru=http://search.ebay.com:80/330158347921_W0QQfclZ4QQfnuZ1QQfsopZ1QQfviZ1


Let the arguing begin, is it a real photo or CG? grin

User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Aug 28th, 2007, 7:22pm

on Aug 28th, 2007, 7:03pm, Arkhangels wrote:
Scott Peden.
Scott Peden is a photographer, plant expert (or "nut" to use Scott's technical term), and guide, who loves sharing the wonders and secrets of nature with others. Most of his earlier training was in the year-round observation of what plants do though out their cycles of life.


This quote from Stephen's submission leads me to believe that this isn't the same person. I don't think a plant expert would use the term "flower/weed things"

"I chose to photograph a couple of flower/weed things growing right on the edge of a drop off with the valley in the background"

However, I do like your idea of asking if he's seen anything strange lately at BB.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 28th, 2007, 7:24pm

on Aug 28th, 2007, 7:16pm, onthefence55 wrote:
Let the arguing begin, is it a real photo or CG? grin

User Image


I say CG. Looks to me that one of those casings has many radiosity render artifacts! That and the lack of motion blur and depth of field anomalies I find highly suspicious.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Arkhangels on Aug 28th, 2007, 7:46pm

on Aug 28th, 2007, 7:22pm, drewlac wrote:
However, I do like your idea of asking if he's seen anything strange lately at BB.


wink But there's 11 guys listed in the website I posted (6 are man)... But I do agree that it's very improbable that one of the 6 man is Stephen...

Anyway, we have 11 possible witnesses (without including the trip people), so I think it would worth try to check, maybe one of them saw a drone but did not know where to post (or did not want to talk about the sighting).

Regards
Ark
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 28th, 2007, 10:41pm

on Aug 28th, 2007, 6:35pm, Latitude wrote:
This ad was on Isaac's website. I guess it automatically finds ufo related stuff.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330158347921&ru=http://search.ebay.com:80/330158347921_W0QQfclZ4QQfnuZ1QQfsopZ1QQfviZ1


I really can't believe someone actually paid $6 plus shipping for those three spent shell casings LOL laugh
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 28th, 2007, 11:19pm

on Aug 28th, 2007, 4:50pm, nekitamo wrote:
That video is not really new... the other one from the same author implies it's all CG.

http://www.youtube.com/user/grosdada6


The only thing that comes to my mind anymore is that CGI is being created to cover their existence now. Maybe it's what they want. Maybe they knew it would be available if need be for whatever reason they may have, like leaving and covering their tracks.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by starsigndavid on Aug 29th, 2007, 12:14am

on Aug 28th, 2007, 09:06am, urantia606 wrote:
I do not understand your post, Dave.

Have you talked with him on the phone about the drones? If not...why not?


We talked on the phone on several occasions about my sighting and the field in general, plus his experiences over the years. We also exchanged a lot of emails. In one email early on, I mentioned the drones and that was it. No responses to my emails or phone! I guess that says it all.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by urantia606 on Aug 29th, 2007, 12:40am

on Aug 29th, 2007, 12:14am, starsigndavid wrote:
We talked on the phone on several occasions about my sighting and the field in general, plus his experiences over the years. We also exchanged a lot of emails. In one email early on, I mentioned the drones and that was it. No responses to my emails or phone! I guess that says it all.


It sounds like you have never spoken to him on the phone about the drones. The phone is much more immediate and difficult to ignore.

That is unless he now refuses to talk on the phone with you about 'anything'. Or he is refusing your phone calls. Or if he hangs up on you when he hears the word 'drones'.

Kinda weird. I'm still not clear on what is happening.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by AgentM on Aug 29th, 2007, 08:00am

The guy who started all this months ago "Tison06" has popped up on another thread as a French person.
Funny his first post that came to be known as "Strange Craft" he never indicated he was French or never seemed to have to "excuse his English"

Wonder whats up with this?

Check the 2012 thread under General UFO by Tison06
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 29th, 2007, 08:07am

Just a heads up on the Netherlands sighting that looks like Mikey's - BJ said, "This came from a guy I have talked to before, and he is in the Netherlands. B J"

So it's not a copy cat.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 29th, 2007, 08:30am

on Aug 29th, 2007, 08:00am, AgentM wrote:
The guy who started all this months ago "Tison06" has popped up on another thread as a French person.
Funny his first post that came to be known as "Strange Craft" he never indicated he was French or never seemed to have to "excuse his English"

Wonder whats up with this?

Check the 2012 thread under General UFO by Tison06


Na, Tison is fine. Googled him back when started the drone thread. He's a gamer and a French forum poster. Nothing unusual.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 29th, 2007, 08:58am

on Aug 28th, 2007, 7:46pm, Arkhangels wrote:
wink But there's 11 guys listed in the website I posted (6 are man)... But I do agree that it's very improbable that one of the 6 man is Stephen...

Anyway, we have 11 possible witnesses (without including the trip people), so I think it would worth try to check, maybe one of them saw a drone but did not know where to post (or did not want to talk about the sighting).

Regards
Ark


yes, that would be good idea. If that guy is always doing hikes in that area, he has possibly seen it before. Some people see things and just don't know where to report it, or don't think to report it.

Oh, and Ark -- I kinda don't like your avatar thing at the bottom of your posts - it looks like a demon I saw once sad
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Aug 29th, 2007, 10:02am

Here is a poor animation I did to give some feel for the Movement of the Ty Drone. The photos are in order from AA to LL.

User Image



I hope this is useful.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Aug 29th, 2007, 10:12am

on Aug 29th, 2007, 10:02am, Marvin wrote:
Here is a poor animation I did to give some feel for the Movement of the Ty Drone. The photos are in order from AA to LL.

User Image
I hope this is useful.


The last two images in the sequence still trouble me....
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Aug 29th, 2007, 10:45am

on Aug 29th, 2007, 10:12am, DrDil wrote:
The last two images in the sequence still trouble me....


Maybe Arkangels will post the last sequence he made. If Ark will post both versions of KK and LL, it will mess with you mind.

BTW, Ark has been doing some excellent work behind the scenes.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 29th, 2007, 11:32am

on Aug 29th, 2007, 08:07am, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Just a heads up on the Netherlands sighting that looks like Mikey's - BJ said, "This came from a guy I have talked to before, and he is in the Netherlands. B J"

So it's not a copy cat.


I found a sighting from Switzerland of something very similar two days before these sightings with photo. I also found about three other sightings with similar descriptions during same two days from different countries, Australia and England as well, another from Essex... see the I SAW 100 UFOS OVER ESSEX thread.

Um... if these are real, this could be bigger than the drones... the fact that they are appearing over multiple countries... in huge formations of a different kind of craft than what we normally see.... maybe someone "else" is here now! another race made it to the big blue marble.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 29th, 2007, 11:39am

on Aug 29th, 2007, 10:12am, DrDil wrote:
The last two images in the sequence still trouble me....

We have no idea of what sequence these photos were taken. We also don't know how much time elapsed between shots. We have Ty's report that he took all 12 in a period of about one minute. But that is not exact enough to really help with analysis.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Aug 29th, 2007, 11:50am

Update: No mainstream media that I know of are going to research this phenomenon, the "Drones of California" at the moment.
Probable cause: Has to do with a new attack in the near future on the USA from the Middle-East.
Any news considering ANY flying objects unacounted for, will help these invaders, and are therefor not to be spoken of in the media.
So, for the moment being, we have to continue the research within our own perimeters.
The recent announcements regarding the "Haiti UFO's" as a hoax has been made to calm things down in the general public.
This is the only reliable information this far, but I'll be following this.
Recently, the new "Glowing Geese" sightings in the UK and in the Netherlands, has much higher priority here in Europe.

VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Aug 29th, 2007, 12:20pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 11:39am, Latitude wrote:
We have no idea of what sequence these photos were taken. We also don't know how much time elapsed between shots. We have Ty's report that he took all 12 in a period of about one minute. But that is not exact enough to really help with analysis.


User Image

We can do some analysis and KK & LL appear to be taken fairly close together.

If you look at the foreground trees on the left, and base the relative size to match it, here is what happens:

User Image

The size change of the drone is not that noticeable. The strange that the happens here is the double ring slides from front to back. KK it is forward, LL it is back.

But if you base it on the background trees, which should be closer to the drone (if it is large and further away):

User Image

When generally looking at these two photos, it would seem that Ty may have moved “somewhat”… and the drone seems to remain in about the same spot. When you scrutinize the photos and make them the same size (based on foreground or background), the appearance changes, the drone is no where near the same spot. The weird thing is (based on the background), it seems to jump directly at the camera.

User Image

KK

User Image

LL

This opens the possibility that the drone is either; 1) much closer and smaller than we originally thought or 2) it may not have originally been in the photo? We are working to resolve these issues, maybe something has been missed, but I am thinking the drone is in between the tress of the left and the background trees and it is not going to be very large in size, as the best explanation. Any other thoughts?

Just to add:

User Image

Made the drone the center of rotation, the trees appears to "rotate" around it. It seems very close to the tress on the left.

There’s nothing to stimulate conversation like controversy. grin grin grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 29th, 2007, 12:51pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 12:20pm, Marvin wrote:
This opens the possibility that the drone is either; 1) much closer and smaller than we originally thought or 2) it may not have originally been in the photo? We are working to resolve these issues, maybe something has been missed, but I am thinking the drone is in between the tress of the left and the background trees and it is not going to be very large in size, as the best explanation. Any other thoughts?


Since the trees on the left are essentially the same, and the trees on the right change... I think he pivoted slightly to the left to take the second photo. I think the drone is in between the two trees, and is as big as initially thought -- with large ring at least 6' - 9' across if not bigger.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 29th, 2007, 1:13pm

can one of you all enlarge one of these ufo's and make it clear??

User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 29th, 2007, 1:25pm

Marvin,

When examine KK and LL I draw a much different conclusion. It looks to me that Ty took KK and then moved to his left a few steps and panned right slightly to compensate for shot LL. The trees on the right look to me to be about 100 feet away and the drone about 150 feet.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 29th, 2007, 1:30pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 1:13pm, castles4me wrote:
can one of you all enlarge one of these ufo's and make it clear??


There is a similar sighting on Mufon right now from Ohio, USA.


http://www.mufoncms.com/files/7777_submitter_file1__notsurewhatthisis.jpg
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Raf on Aug 29th, 2007, 1:45pm

castles4me wrote:

Quote:
Um... if these are real, this could be bigger than the drones... the fact that they are appearing over multiple countries... in huge formations of a different kind of craft than what we normally see.... maybe someone "else" is here now! another race made it to the big blue marble.


I can't find any mention of either European sighting or the Ohio (Mufon) sighting on any major news carrier. Its almost like they just turn a blind eye to anything unusual.

Raf
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 29th, 2007, 1:47pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 1:30pm, Latitude wrote:
There is a similar sighting on Mufon right now from Ohio, USA.


http://www.mufoncms.com/files/7777_submitter_file1__notsurewhatthisis.jpg


There seem to be a lot of similar sightings in US, UK, Netherlands, Australia and Switzerland -- I have been posting them in the "I SAW 100 UFOS in ESSEX thread --

Our little Mikey, might be telling the truth here.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by AgentM on Aug 29th, 2007, 2:49pm

Question ATO,

Duh..I cannot remember the order of how it first went down..

Tison06 was first to bring the "Chad" letter and pics here to UFOCasebook from c2c..right? I mean he was just an online observer who broke the news here right?


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 29th, 2007, 3:05pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 2:49pm, AgentM wrote:
Question ATO,

Duh..I cannot remember the order of how it first went down..

Tison06 was first to bring the "Chad" letter and pics here to UFOCasebook from c2c..right? I mean he was just an online observer who broke the news here right?



Yep, that's all it was.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Aug 29th, 2007, 3:26pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 1:25pm, Latitude wrote:
Marvin,

When examine KK and LL I draw a much different conclusion. It looks to me that Ty took KK and then moved to his left a few steps and panned right slightly to compensate for shot LL. The trees on the right look to me to be about 100 feet away and the drone about 150 feet.


User Image

If you center on the drone and move between KK and LL, the spikes on the big ring always point to the same location on the background trees. So I agree that Ty is moving a little back and to the left in LL (from KK). But to explain all of the effects, caused by centering on the foreground trees or the drone or the background trees, the drone can not be behind the background trees. It has to be in between the trees on the left and background trees, or these trees would move in the same direction when we center on the drone (they move opposite directions in the above example, so the drone is between them). Since the angle of the leading “wing” and the two rings change some much between KK and LL, the drone should be closer to the front trees than the back trees.

If the drone was so far away (150 feet or 50 yards), one should not see these changes of view or angle on the drone, for the relatively small distance Ty moved between KK and LL.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 29th, 2007, 3:37pm

Looks like the drone came closer to him and he moved left and backed off like he was frightened!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 29th, 2007, 3:47pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 1:30pm, Latitude wrote:
There is a similar sighting on Mufon right now from Ohio, USA.


http://www.mufoncms.com/files/7777_submitter_file1__notsurewhatthisis.jpg


I am always paying attention to the sightings and there is a vast number for the month of August as usual. This is due to the month. We would like to think that there is some sort of special activity going on but August is the peak month for sightings each and every year.

Actually, all of the summer months are greater then the rest of the year but August is where it peaks. More people are outside and even outside longer due to more sunlight.

The following represents the averages for each month (151 months from January 1995 through July 2007) at NUFORC. As you can see, August has always been the highest.

I think NUFORC's sightings are going to exceed August's 312 in the past though due to the more recent activity.

Remember that what you see below are each month's average. The total number of sightings were 37,305 all from NUFORC.

http://www.uforc.com/news021105/nesbittplac7_021105.html

January
204
February
189
March
223
April
202
May
205
June
259
July
310
August
312
September
295
October
283
November
280
December
215




Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by firmbeliever on Aug 29th, 2007, 4:35pm

Hello to everyone on this forum. I have been following this topic about the drones for several weeks now and have read and studied everything that has been discussed here. I just want to say that everyone here has done a great job researching this topic. I just wanted to add my belief to what has happened here. After reviewing all of the information and photographs I firmly believe this to be true and very real. It is a shame that we have people out there who are not searching for the truth or are so closed minded that they are not willing to really study and seek out what is right. I know for a fact that UFO's are real. In 1969 I saw a ufo one bright moonlight night that passed right by me and my friend. It was so close we could have hit it with a rock. It was as large as a jumbo jet and flew right by us about 100 ft off of the ground. It was cigar shaped and appeared to be gray metal. It had what appeared to be windows that were round down the side of it. It did not make a sound. I dont know were these things come from or why they are here but I know for a fact that they are real. When you find this out for yourself it changes you. Issac made the statement that it was kind of like a kid finding out that his parents are getting a divorce. I just wish that before I die I could find out where these things come from and what their purpose is. I am sorry for rambling here. I just wanted to add my testimony that ufo's are real. I know it and nobody can ever take that from me. Yall keep up the good work and I will continue to follow your progress.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 29th, 2007, 4:51pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 11:50am, VonStern wrote:
Recently, the new "Glowing Geese" sightings in the UK and in the Netherlands, has much higher priority here in Europe.

VonStern


VonStern -- what do you know about the glowing geese? Where have you heard about it in Europe? Please post your response on the UK Sightings thread for "I SAW HUNDREDS UFOs ESSEX" thread....

I have found about 6 or so other sightings of glowing orange things in V formations or other formations all over the world the last week and have posted them there on that thread as well.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Arkhangels on Aug 29th, 2007, 5:51pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 12:51pm, castles4me wrote:
I think he pivoted slightly to the left to take the second photo. I think the drone is in between the two trees, and is as big as initially thought -- with large ring at least 6' - 9' across if not bigger.


on Aug 29th, 2007, 1:25pm, Latitude wrote:
It looks to me that Ty took KK and then moved to his left a few steps and panned right slightly to compensate for shot LL. The trees on the right look to me to be about 100 feet away and the drone about 150 feet.



People, you know I just had the same conclusion when I analysed the images KK and LL??
It still has to be revised, but explains almost everything, except the perspective issue in both images that modify the angle of the trees and of the drone.

Here is my top view analysis of
KK:
User Image

And LL:
User Image

Maybe we reached a conclusion... he did moved to his left and moved the camera to the right to compensate the shot, and this movement changed the tree's and drone's angle that is causing problem when you animate both photos changing points of reference.

PS: If the drone was closer I think his central vertical axis would not change so much in the images from photo KK to LL... IMHO.

Regards
Ark
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Arkhangels on Aug 29th, 2007, 5:55pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 08:58am, castles4me wrote:
yes, that would be good idea. If that guy is always doing hikes in that area, he has possibly seen it before. Some people see things and just don't know where to report it, or don't think to report it.

Oh, and Ark -- I kinda don't like your avatar thing at the bottom of your posts - it looks like a demon I saw once sad


(Sorry double post)

wink Ok I promess you I will change it in the future, but first I need to find some other signature grin
PS: it is some kind of futuristic angel with scars and metal wings smiley

Regards
Ark
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Aug 29th, 2007, 6:27pm

Ark,

I hope you do not mind, I have added what I am trying to describe to your excellent diagrams!

User Image

If the drone is far away (on the back side of the background trees) then as Ty moved, all of the trees (the ones on the left and the background) should all move in the same direction as Ty changes positions (when we center on the drone). See above diagram (blue arrows are the movement of trees relative to the camera).

User Image

But if the drone is close to Ty (in between the left trees and the background trees), then as Ty moves, they will move in opposite directions (when we center on the drone). See above diagram (blue arrows are the movement of trees relative to the camera).

This fully explains everything that we see.

User Image

The above is centered on the drone.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 29th, 2007, 7:00pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 4:35pm, firmbeliever wrote:
Hello to everyone on this forum. I have been following this topic about the drones for several weeks now and have read and studied everything that has been discussed here. I just want to say that everyone here has done a great job researching this topic. I just wanted to add my belief to what has happened here. After reviewing all of the information and photographs I firmly believe this to be true and very real. It is a shame that we have people out there who are not searching for the truth or are so closed minded that they are not willing to really study and seek out what is right. I know for a fact that UFO's are real. In 1969 I saw a ufo one bright moonlight night that passed right by me and my friend. It was so close we could have hit it with a rock. It was as large as a jumbo jet and flew right by us about 100 ft off of the ground. It was cigar shaped and appeared to be gray metal. It had what appeared to be windows that were round down the side of it. It did not make a sound. I dont know were these things come from or why they are here but I know for a fact that they are real. When you find this out for yourself it changes you. Issac made the statement that it was kind of like a kid finding out that his parents are getting a divorce. I just wish that before I die I could find out where these things come from and what their purpose is. I am sorry for rambling here. I just wanted to add my testimony that ufo's are real. I know it and nobody can ever take that from me. Yall keep up the good work and I will continue to follow your progress.


There's a couple ( and I mean only a couple) of die hard unbelievers in here too that have read every bit of it also, so we'll never really figure it out other then maybe some of us, me included, are just darn right gullible or the others have a brain malfunction making them not capable of discerning as well as we do. lol Boy, I'm gonna get it. I can hear it now. lol

You are very correct though. There are many missing the boat and we are actually paying a price because of it. Long story.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 29th, 2007, 7:03pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 4:51pm, castles4me wrote:
VonStern -- what do you know about the glowing geese? Where have you heard about it in Europe? Please post your response on the UK Sightings thread for "I SAW HUNDREDS UFOs ESSEX" thread....

I have found about 6 or so other sightings of glowing orange things in V formations or other formations all over the world the last week and have posted them there on that thread as well.


That's what I was thinking of. Here is a flock of Ibis and an Ibis is a very, very large bird. But who is to say.

User Image
User Image
http://www.worldtwitch.com/images/Hornbuckle/Venezuela/Scarlet_Ibis.gif" alt="User Image" border="0">
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 29th, 2007, 7:06pm

Here's glowing geese. lol

User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 29th, 2007, 7:13pm

Here are a couple of Ibis at twilight but not very far up. Imagine what they would look like at a higher altitude and notice the configuration of their outline. Not saying this looks like Switzerland but it does resemble Mikey's. See the light coming off of the wing on the one on the left.

User Image

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Aug 29th, 2007, 7:13pm

HI ATO;I have seen that I saw 100 ufos tread and tried to avoid it not wanting to get stuck.it was to temting not to go. you know the song ,not only found some more truth but got dromatized again. grin grin grin grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Arkhangels on Aug 29th, 2007, 10:13pm

Hi People!!
I've made another analysis of what could be the case of Ty's pictures KK and LL...
I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but I concluded that without some math, or camera configs, or Ty's info, will be impossible understand what is in fact the case...
I kept the camera cone angle the same size and in the same position that in Analysis 1 of photo KK
I kept Ty in the same position in LL, but rotated a little bit the camera cone more to the right (with the same size of course)
In KK I defined the orange line as central for one infinite number of drones in infinite distances from Ty, and in the LL I just showed 100% visible the drones in one interval that they would still fit in LL considering an error margin. And with this I concluded that in that little interval I could have infinite possibilities of drone position and size... sad
shocked
That without counting the fact that I can still move the camera and Ty to other positions and define others reference lines, etc... that just gives the problem an infinite perspective...

Here is the analysis2 of KK:
User Image
EDIT: I uploaded in other site:
http://i1.tinypic.com/4qzwlmr.jpg

And analysis2 of LL:
User Image
EDIT: Here it is:
http://i5.tinypic.com/34fcl8k.jpg

I think the answer is now in the angles of the image from photo KK to LL rolleyes

Regards
Ark
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 29th, 2007, 11:19pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 7:03pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
That's what I was thinking of. Here is a flock of Ibis and an Ibis is a very, very large bird. But who is to say.


I don't really think Switzerland or Mikey's sighting are birds... just that all of the sightings that I found and posted in the other thread from the past week of big formations, people reported that they are orange glowing objects are in V formations -- I really don't think that Netherland/Mikey/Switzerland are birds -- just wondering why everyone describes the UFO formations as if they LOOkED like bird formations. ya know?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 30th, 2007, 07:10am

on Aug 29th, 2007, 11:19pm, castles4me wrote:
just wondering why everyone describes the UFO formations as if they LOOkED like bird formations. ya know?


Because they both fly in the same formation and for the same reasons. Maybe they are designed to do so, just like birds. Birds, bees and other creatures navigate with the earth's magnetic field. Aliens probably do too when they fly. I didn't say that I believe it's birds. I said it could be.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Aug 30th, 2007, 08:19am

Maybe this is one of the reasons we're not being taken serious:

Scroll down to the bottom of the page:

http://www.hyper.net/ufo/news.html

--VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Aug 30th, 2007, 09:24am

on Aug 30th, 2007, 08:19am, VonStern wrote:
Maybe this is one of the reasons we're not being taken serious:

Scroll down to the bottom of the page:

http://www.hyper.net/ufo/news.html

--VonStern


Why am I not surprised that they've listed the drones as fake CGI creations. angry This all stems from MUFONs stance on the subject. Until they reopen the invesitgation, major media outlets will not take this seriously.

Yet, I do find it very interesting that this sighting is listed: 13-Jun-2007: Formation of 6 disks seen and photographed over Pleasanton, California USA.

My favorite quote from the article:
"All fiction obviously, but several sites fell for it and are covering this subject."

I guess they mean us shocked
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 30th, 2007, 09:34am

Look at what saladfingers created. We can relate to this one. lol

User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Aug 30th, 2007, 09:55am

on Aug 29th, 2007, 7:00pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
There's a couple ( and I mean only a couple) of die hard unbelievers in here too that have read every bit of it also, so we'll never really figure it out other then maybe some of us, me included, are just darn right gullible or the others have a brain malfunction making them not capable of discerning as well as we do. lol Boy, I'm gonna get it. I can hear it now. lol


Did someone mention my name? grin

That’s a great choice of words ATO,

Discern - to see something that is not very clear or obvious

I probably do have a brain malfunction but not in the discerning part, it’s more likely that the part that allows me to be deceived and deluded that doesn’t seem to be functioning correctly. wink

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Luvey on Aug 30th, 2007, 10:00am

Atrueoriginall wrote Quote:
Look at what saladfingers created. We can relate to this one. lol


ROFL...... grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 30th, 2007, 10:12am

on Aug 30th, 2007, 09:34am, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Look at what saladfingers created. We can relate to this one. lol


That's the funniest thing I have ever seen!!!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 30th, 2007, 11:08am

I don't get it. LMH had disclosure in her hands and now we get stuff like half cats and dog mutilations. How many half cats does it take to make a Pulitzer prize? I think she should check to see if there are any Chinese restaurants in the area or look for possible ties to Micheal Vick. cheesy

From Earthfiles:
User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 30th, 2007, 11:31am

on Aug 30th, 2007, 11:08am, Latitude wrote:
I don't get it. LMH had disclosure in her hands and now we get stuff like half cats and dog mutilations. How many half cats does it take to make a Pulitzer prize? I think she should check to see if there are any Chinese restaurants in the area or look for possible ties to Micheal Vick. cheesy


aww man... don't think I am going to have Chinese for lunch then..... MEOW!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 30th, 2007, 11:55am

on Aug 30th, 2007, 08:19am, VonStern wrote:
Maybe this is one of the reasons we're not being taken serious:

Scroll down to the bottom of the page:

http://www.hyper.net/ufo/news.html

--VonStern


I was under the impression that Mufon merely bungled the investigation. But the more I think about it, I'm starting to think that a more likely explanation is that Mufon is being controlled by the anti-disclosure forces. Why else would they so quickly jump on the hoax band wagon? They are in fact a UFO investigation organization.

I really have been thinnking over the last month that the Isaac/drone case caused a red alert among the anti-disclosure forces. They have effectly killed the story... for now. Let's see what happens next year.

What would you do if you had photographic drone evidence? Who would you take it to? Can anybody be trusted? What would you do if confronted by agents?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Aug 30th, 2007, 12:23pm

this one is so real the ufo experts aloud them selves to be pushed away. why? huh
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 30th, 2007, 12:31pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 11:55am, Latitude wrote:
I was under the impression that Mufon merely bungled the investigation. But the more I think about it, I'm starting to think that a more likely explanation is that Mufon is being controlled by the anti-disclosure forces. Why else would they so quickly jump on the hoax band wagon? They are in fact a UFO investigation organization.

I really have been thinnking over the last month that the Isaac/drone case caused a red alert among the anti-disclosure forces. They have effectly killed the story... for now. Let's see what happens next year.

What would you do if you had photographic drone evidence? Who would you take it to? Can anybody be trusted? What would you do if confronted by agents?


I dont know much about the background of MUFON -- who runs it etc.... But think about it. What better way for government to control the UFO phenomenon... Have a reporting system. Let people just report it to you, when they think they are reporting to someone else. Government gets all of the data, people are passified and gov can control which sightings get the attention. don't know if that is true, but it could be. The gov has undercover people EVERYWHERE.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Aug 30th, 2007, 12:52pm

good way to say it castle4me.how can i see it any other way, when we have seen with our own eyes. how can one tell another diferance to what they know to be truth?do the world evolve around someone ealses interpretations of the unknown?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Aug 30th, 2007, 12:54pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 12:31pm, castles4me wrote:
I dont know much about the background of MUFON -- who runs it etc.... But think about it. What better way for government to control the UFO phenomenon... Have a reporting system. Let people just report it to you, when they think they are reporting to someone else. Government gets all of the data, people are passified and gov can control which sightings get the attention. don't know if that is true, but it could be. The gov has undercover people EVERYWHERE.



I don't think you can judge the Mufon organization by the newly established bulletin board. This bulletin board is in its infancy.

Having some experience with Mufon and the way they conduct investigations, the bulletin board is not the place where they will conduct the investigation. To put this in perspective since this (thread) is mostly about the drone, if Mufon could have direct contact and by that I mean face-to-face with Chad and with the various witnesses and with Isaac that would constitute the beginnings of their investigation.

I don't know anything about the history of the Gulf Breeze incident but apparently there seems to be some bad feelings about that.


I get the impression that until Mufon has an opportunity to directly meet with these people they will not conduct their investigation over the Internet.

I can't speak for Mufon but I don't think the bulletin board is representative of the
group in general. I would like to think that at the very least they could provide this type of explanation. As it sits now I've gotten more information from you (your group)than on the Mufon bulletin board.

Again I've got to emphasize I don't speak for Mufon but that is just my general impression. Unless they get actual face-to-face contact with the people submitting the photos, and the various witnesses, and Isaac, their investigation remains dormant until this comes forthwith.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 30th, 2007, 12:58pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 12:54pm, Gort wrote:
I don't think you can judge the Mufon organization by the newly established bulletin board. This bulletin board is in its infancy.


I really wasn't judging them -- I was just doing a "what if"

But, they could have GOTTEN the information from LMH or Coast to Coast or BJ to contact the witnesses themselves and actually INVESTIGATE, like they are supposed to do. A story this big -- just brushed away -- makes no sense.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Aug 30th, 2007, 1:13pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 12:58pm, castles4me wrote:
I really wasn't judging them -- I was just doing a "what if"

But, they could have GOTTEN the information from LMH or Coast to Coast or BJ to contact the witnesses themselves and actually INVESTIGATE, like they are supposed to do. A story this big -- just brushed away -- makes no sense.


For all I know they may have tried but all that would be way above me.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 30th, 2007, 1:28pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 12:54pm, Gort wrote:
I don't think you can judge the Mufon organization by the newly established bulletin board. This bulletin board is in its infancy.


I'm judging them by the way they handled the Chad investigation, not their forum. It definitely points to external involvement IMO.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Aug 30th, 2007, 1:48pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 1:28pm, Latitude wrote:
I'm judging them by the way they handled the Chad investigation, not their forum. It definitely points to external involvement IMO.


Unless someone contacts them, the assumption is that Mufon was NOT purposely sought.

If however someone where to bring the case to Mufon with (and only with) the concurrence of the individual(s) that would be different. Again I have no way of knowing if this was attempted or considered, but I do know that privacy is very important and anonymity could be assured by MUFON.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 30th, 2007, 1:58pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 12:54pm, Gort wrote:
I don't think you can judge the Mufon organization by the newly established bulletin board. This bulletin board is in its infancy.


Don't get me started then on MUFON. I want to show you something so bad but I can't. What I can say is how do we bring them anything when for the last month I've got nothing but auto-response emails from them. Three times. I'll go for a fourth today.

Here's the Gulf Breeze mess.
http://ufos.about.com/od/visualproofphotosvideo/p/gulfbreeze.htm
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Aug 30th, 2007, 2:21pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 1:58pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Don't get me started then on MUFON. I want to show you something so bad but I can't. What I can say is how do we bring them anything when for the last month I've got nothing but auto-response emails from them. Three times. I'll go for a fourth today.

Here's the Gulf Breeze mess.
http://ufos.about.com/od/visualproofphotosvideo/p/gulfbreeze.htm


I can't answer regarding the email. But they have a directory for each state, with each state subdivided into local areas. I believe contact information for state directors is available on the web site. From there they should direct you to the local representative. I don't think people at the top want to speak over the folk at the local level. So if you haven't tried the local level first there may be a reluctance from anyone higher up (don't know who you emailed). But again I can't speak for them and my suggestion would be to start at the local level. They in turn may be able to help you directly or suggest something else.

Not wishing to reopen this (Gulf B.) or pour salt in any wounds but it seems that in the end Mufon believed the sightings as genuine.

And you agree with this but are disappointed in the way the whole investigation was conducted?




"Watson's reinvestigation found no basis for rejecting the original MUFON conclusion...that Ed Walters IS TELLING THE TRUTH........

Thus, it is still my conclusion, as the current State Section Directory for the Walters case, that "Ed Walters' UFO photographs, and his accompanying story, must still be accepted as the truth."

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 30th, 2007, 2:37pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 2:21pm, Gort wrote:
I can't answer regarding the email. But they have a directory for each state, with each state subdivided into local areas. I believe contact information for state directors is available on the web site. From there they should direct you to the local representative. I don't think people at the top want to speak over the folk at the local level. So if you haven't tried the local level first there may be a reluctance from anyone higher up (don't know who you emailed). But again I can't speak for them and my suggestion would be to start at the local level. They in turn may be able to help you directly or suggest something else.


that sounds logical. I wonder if we could contact the Big Basin California area guy and see what they would do on a local level to track down the witnesses.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Aug 30th, 2007, 2:55pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 2:37pm, castles4me wrote:
that sounds logical. I wonder if we could contact the Big Basin California area guy and see what they would do on a local level to track down the witnesses.


You could try, but typically it’s the other way around; the witness seeks Mufon. I really doubt if Mufon would have anything more available to them then you or I in finding someone who has chosen to remain seclusive.

Now if you could convince the witness to contact Mufon their anonymity would be assured at the very least.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Aug 30th, 2007, 4:59pm

on Aug 29th, 2007, 10:13pm, Arkhangels wrote:
Hi People!!
I've made another analysis of what could be the case of Ty's pictures KK and LL...

I kept the camera cone angle the same size and in the same position that in Analysis 1 of photo KK (and LL).
I kept Ty in the same position in LL, but rotated a little bit the camera cone more to the right (with the same size of course)
In the LL I just showed 100% visible the drones in one interval that they would still fit in LL considering an error margin.


And analysis2 of LL:
User Image
EDIT: Here it is:
http://i5.tinypic.com/34fcl8k.jpg

I think the answer is now in the angles of the image from photo KK to LL rolleyes

Regards
Ark


This is what I am seeing, as Ty moves from KK to LL, Ty also changes the vertical angle of the camera (Ty looks up, maybe squats down at the time). As I have shown, the drone does not move, just Ty moves. So I think we can get an idea of location (and maybe size) of the drone between these two photos. I am still working on it (when I have spare time).
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 30th, 2007, 6:02pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 2:55pm, Gort wrote:
Now if you could convince the witness to contact Mufon their anonymity would be assured at the very least.


It's already been done. The second witness to come forward was Tahoe Wife. She took her report and pictures directly to Mufon. That's one of the reasons Mufon has so much blame.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 30th, 2007, 6:10pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 2:37pm, castles4me wrote:
that sounds logical. I wonder if we could contact the Big Basin California area guy and see what they would do on a local level to track down the witnesses.


The Northern California Mufon rep used to post on ATS. He was a nice guy. Maybe somebody can invite him to register here to answer some questions. I would but I'm banned.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Cheop on Aug 30th, 2007, 9:54pm

Hi guys!

I´ve just come accross an interesting clip, may be you´ve seen that one already, I don´t know and if not, then I´m a lucky guy.

So, here it is!

Sigils, Magick, and The Ancient Alien Torah
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WHc4ecUO1HY
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Aug 30th, 2007, 10:32pm

Good find
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Nodnunk on Aug 31st, 2007, 07:02am

on Aug 30th, 2007, 4:59pm, Marvin wrote:
This is what I am seeing, as Ty moves from KK to LL, Ty also changes the vertical angle of the camera (Ty looks up, maybe squats down at the time). As I have shown, the drone does not move, just Ty moves. So I think we can get an idea of location (and maybe size) of the drone between these two photos. I am still working on it (when I have spare time).


I agree that the position of the photographer changed between KK and LL. I found that I have to scale the LL image by about 121% (and translate and rotate) in order for the trees on the right to match KK. For the tree on the left, I have to scale LL by about 118%. That means the photographer was further away from all the trees when he took the LL image. Now, since the trees bracket the drone, the drone should have to be scaled by something between 118% and 121% if it remained stationary. But, I only had to scale the drone by 103% in LL to match the size of the drone in the KK image. That means to me that the drone moved toward the photographer enough to almost compensate for his backing up between KK and LL.

Since the long fin on the drone is behind the leaves of the tree on the left in photo LL, it was at least that far away from the photographer.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Aug 31st, 2007, 1:31pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 9:54pm, Cheop wrote:
Hi guys!

I´ve just come accross an interesting clip, may be you´ve seen that one already, I don´t know and if not, then I´m a lucky guy.

So, here it is!

Sigils, Magick, and The Ancient Alien Torah
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WHc4ecUO1HY
very good. so now can the drones be back egine?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 31st, 2007, 2:11pm

off topic -- but I saw this vid on you tube, and I was wondering if any of you can do an image capture towards the end -- before the entity's eyes glow, and change the lighting so I can see what this is. The video says it's a "fallen angel" I zoomed in on it, and it looked more like an alien to me-- or human prankster. Can someone get a still shot of him and lighten it up etc ?? Maybe one at .51 and one at .53

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5j6ha1t_T0&mode=related&search=
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Aug 31st, 2007, 2:44pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 2:11pm, castles4me wrote:
off topic -- but I saw this vid on you tube, and I was wondering if any of you can do an image capture towards the end -- before the entity's eyes glow, and change the lighting so I can see what this is. The video says it's a "fallen angel" I zoomed in on it, and it looked more like an alien to me-- or human prankster. Can someone get a still shot of him and lighten it up etc ?? Maybe one at .51 and one at .53

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5j6ha1t_T0&mode=related&search=


I think it’s just one of friends messing about as in the image in the top right hand corner you can see his head waiting to turn around, and in the main image looks like this, “Fallen angel” may have a moustache…… wink

User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 31st, 2007, 3:07pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 2:11pm, castles4me wrote:
"fallen angel/or human prankster


Ok, somebody keep castles4me out of the youtubes. She's going to be wigging by Christmas. grin


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 31st, 2007, 3:21pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 3:07pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Ok, somebody keep castles4me out of the youtubes. She's going to be wigging by Christmas. grin



lol try Labor Day ? grin


DrDil -- thanks for the effort... pretty scary looking friend!!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Aug 31st, 2007, 3:55pm

Have you ever considered WHY the Drones might be here? As stated earlier, they might have been here for a long, long time. As the way they work may be one thing, as described earlier in this continous thread, but why? Has it to do with Aliens monitoring us, or seeking new grounds? Maybe it's more complex that anyone up until now has been trying to unfold, if this dense mashinery are working our planet, why? Is it as some members say, to keep up with OUR way of using this Planet, and doing so eliminating it for further growth as once planned, as in the Mayans Calender, or in the ancient scriptures of our own religion, what that might be in it's diversity thoughout the World?

Who's to say?

Not me and you, maybe it lies in the interpretations of the "Primers" Isaac provided...

The real Enigma is lying in our selves, true believers, or the "Fencesitters", asking how this world we live in eventually came to be, as we ask ourselves: Why Are WE Here, that question has yet to be answered, but as I see it, we're on our way, dechiffering the charts Isaac provided us with. This Could be the New Religion, unless, ofcourse, all this is proven hoax.

Have you ever asked your self, truly, why YOU are here, at this time? Is there a purpose, or are we all just a part of pure "Coincidence"?? What can we do in our short time here on this Earth, that extends to Millenniums?? Maybe the Drones harbour answers you and I can't grasp, but if we do not look for answers, we will never know what really goes on in this little window in time, where we exist!

Just some Philosofical thoughts, so get your best imagination out, and research every bit of information left in this one incidence...maybe this is the only true evidence, that it matters that we have lived here on this planet!

God gave us advice, are we to follow?

VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Aug 31st, 2007, 3:58pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 3:21pm, castles4me wrote:
DrDil -- thanks for the effort... pretty scary looking friend!!


If you look closely I believe you can see his hairline over his ears etc.

If you look at the dark area at the bridge of his nose then it could even be goggles/glasses he’s wearing with LED’s in them, that would also explain why they lit up at the perfect time.

And since I think I saw a moustache I can’t get Hitler out of my mind when looking at it him, he also strikes me as little old to be playing in the woods with his friends late at night!! That’s slightly more worrying than his origin!! shocked

(ATO, if castles keeps out of the YouTubes (and ropey UFO photo sections) then I wouldn’t have anything to do!! grin)
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by bonjody on Aug 31st, 2007, 4:40pm

Hi!...
I have been lurking on this board for quite a while now and followed the "Isaac" Drone threads with great interest...
Overall, Isaac's story seems very believable and if true has incredible implications for our country's technological position now and in the future...
I pray that it is true, but there is one thing that has bothered me from the beginning...The Personal Antigravity device (shown in Latitude's Avatar) appears that it could be a CGI creation...

The reason I say that is because the top half seems to be a mirror image copy of the bottom half, even down to the linguistic symbols being mirror images of each other...
Now this may not be true, but to my understanding, "mirror imaging " is a tool available in 3D programs to save time for the the artist when he has 2 halves of an object that are the same. He only has to draw 1/2 of the object and the 3D program can reproduce the other half.
The only trouble in this case is that the lettering is also reproduced as an exact mirror image.

I think this was discussed very early in the threads, but I cannot find it or remember the arguments (either way) or any conclusions drawn.

Can anyone help me with this?

(PS...I saw a UFO when I was young, so I know they are real...that is not in question here!)

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Aug 31st, 2007, 4:49pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 4:40pm, bonjody wrote:
Hi!...
I have been lurking on this board for quite a while now and followed the "Isaac" Drone threads with great interest...
Overall, Isaac's story seems very believable and if true has incredible implications for our country's technological position now and in the future...
I pray that it is true, but there is one thing that has bothered me from the beginning...The Personal Antigravity device (shown in Latitude's Avatar) appears that it could be a CGI creation...

The reason I say that is because the top half seems to be a mirror image copy of the bottom half, even down to the linguistic symbols being mirror images of each other...
Now this may not be true, but to my understanding, "mirror imaging " is a tool available in 3D programs to save time for the the artist when he has 2 halves of an object that are the same. He only has to draw 1/2 of the object and the 3D program can reproduce the other half.
The only trouble in this case is that the lettering is also reproduced as an exact mirror image.

I think this was discussed very early in the threads, but I cannot find it or remember the arguments (either way) or any conclusions drawn.

Can anyone help me with this?

(PS...I saw a UFO when I was young, so I know they are real...that is not in question here!)


Welcome bonjody ,

This mirroring case has been discussed earlier in the threads, if you read through the whole investigation.

New ways of seeing are welcomed here, so please hang on!

--VonStern

ATO, you know this better than me, when was it this was discussed?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 31st, 2007, 5:17pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 3:58pm, DrDil wrote:
(ATO, if castles keeps out of the YouTubes (and ropey UFO photo sections) then I wouldn’t have anything to do!! grin)


Wellhuh?? You gotta look at the issue from ALL angles!! And, yes... just doing my job to give you photo-fodder!!

Oh, and what does ropey mean? Not sure what ropey UFO photo sections means.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 31st, 2007, 5:24pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 3:58pm, DrDil wrote:
(ATO, if castles keeps out of the YouTubes (and ropey UFO photo sections) then I wouldn’t have anything to do!! grin)


Well, you know I can find something for you to do. And castles4me - ropey is a UK thingy that means very poor in quality whereas us Yankees say, "what a bunch of sheet". lol
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Aug 31st, 2007, 5:37pm

Thanks, ATO. cool


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 31st, 2007, 6:40pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 5:37pm, VonStern wrote:
Thanks, ATO. cool



Here's the other half. Sorry, had to run to the store.

on Jul 7th, 2007, 08:08am, DrDil wrote:
An interesting point, funny enough I posted a possible explanation which was and is just an observation.

Re: MYSTERY of the DRONES -SOLVED? - ASK ISAAC
Post by DrDil on 06/30/2007 at 10:03:08


Can anybody notice and differences between the two parts of this object. The more I rotate and zoom in on it, the more I feel it may be one object spliced together. I can’t distinguish between the two parts at all, apart of course from the obvious differences caused by the angle.


User Image


Is that what you mean, and if so maybes that could account for, “the symbols are symetrically mirrored”?

It may be an illusion but doesn’t that image look like it’s one object sitting on a mirror. Of course I don’t believe that’s what was done but it may have been one image inverted and joined to the original one.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Aug 31st, 2007, 6:42pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 5:17pm, castles4me wrote:
Wellhuh?? You gotta look at the issue from ALL angles!! And, yes... just doing my job to give you photo-fodder!!

Oh, and what does ropey mean? Not sure what ropey UFO photo sections means.


Don’t take it to heart castles, you should know I was only joking, and as for ropey, maybes the colloquialism doesn’t carry across the pond (apart from the fact I was joking I meant lights in the sky rather than an actual definable structure) but don’t worry about it, I’m sure it won’t happen again.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by bonjody on Aug 31st, 2007, 6:48pm

Thank you ATO, but that is not what I am talking about!

I don't think an actual mirror was used to duplicate the top or bottom half...

I am referring to a tool used by CGI 3D artist to duplicate a repetitive part . It is a tool built into the 3D program they are using to produce their 3D art. The main problem with it in a case like this is that it produces a mirror image of any lettering on the original part.

Bonjody
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Aug 31st, 2007, 7:23pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 6:48pm, bonjody wrote:
Thank you ATO, but that is not what I am talking about!

I don't think an actual mirror was used to duplicate the top or bottom half...

I am referring to a tool used by CGI 3D artist to duplicate a repetitive part . It is a tool built into the 3D program they are using to produce their 3D art. The main problem with it in a case like this is that it produces a mirror image of any lettering on the original part.

Bonjody


It is not a duplicate but instead shows the back side of much of the part. Also, one of the lines of small characters around one of the rims is not duplicated.

Be very careful when you start getting skeptical about the way in which you believe an alien device should be designed. We have no idea about the limitations of the technology. Is was most evident when the BB drone was accused of being a hoax because it was claimed it could in no way support it's own appendages with the tiny connecting pieces. It was thought by the narrow minded that centrifugal and inertial forces would break the thing apart. Then came the Isaac info which explained that the object used RSR (Rigid Spatial Relationship) that was responsible for it's form and rigidity. It also was revealed that it was immune to environment and inertia.

The A1 device could be a dipole of sort.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Aug 31st, 2007, 7:49pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 6:48pm, bonjody wrote:
Thank you ATO, but that is not what I am talking about!

I don't think an actual mirror was used to duplicate the top or bottom half...

I am referring to a tool used by CGI 3D artist to duplicate a repetitive part . It is a tool built into the 3D program they are using to produce their 3D art. The main problem with it in a case like this is that it produces a mirror image of any lettering on the original part.

Bonjody


Isn't that the same thing just less simplified?

on Jul 7th, 2007, 08:08am, DrDil wrote:
Re: MYSTERY of the DRONES -SOLVED? - ASK ISAAC
Post by DrDil on 06/30/2007 at 10:03:08


It may be an illusion but doesn’t that image look like it’s one object sitting on a mirror. Of course I don’t believe that’s what was done but it may have been one image inverted and joined to the original one.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Aug 31st, 2007, 8:09pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 5:24pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
And castles4me - ropey is a UK thingy that means very poor in quality whereas us Yankees say, "what a bunch of sheet". lol


Yeah, you’re not far wrong ATO, except “Ropey” is definitely more of a jokey way of saying it, normally used between friends in a humorous dialogue, it’s certainly not the, "Correct and formal way of addressing one another.” wink (Or it's a bunch of sheet!!)
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Aug 31st, 2007, 8:17pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 6:42pm, DrDil wrote:
Don’t take it to heart castles, you should know I was only joking


She already knows we're joking. She's gotten it enough from both of us by now to know. lol Me especially. I'm the card and DrDil is the Joker. he, he, eek, eek! grin

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 31st, 2007, 10:02pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 6:48pm, bonjody wrote:
Thank you ATO, but that is not what I am talking about!

I don't think an actual mirror was used to duplicate the top or bottom half...

I am referring to a tool used by CGI 3D artist to duplicate a repetitive part . It is a tool built into the 3D program they are using to produce their 3D art. The main problem with it in a case like this is that it produces a mirror image of any lettering on the original part.

Bonjody


The answer is possibly in the CARET documents. Q486 pg 6

"A1 was one of a PAIR OF IDENTICAL GENERATORS, TOGETHER responsible for anti-gravity related functionality...."


I am not sure if there was another identical device of the total A1 -- or if this means that the top and bottom are both parts of the pair.

I have to add the purple to make it a complete rainbow.

Might as well..... I am in the ropey section anyway.

Ohhh.... the colors!!


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Aug 31st, 2007, 10:30pm

Paging DrDil -- paging DrDil...

Lights to analyze in the ropey section at the following:

http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=reports&action=post&num=1188609649"e=1188604684&start=0
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by r0ni on Aug 31st, 2007, 10:37pm

Interesting you used the rainbow.. just watched this.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IsHUDcO6_dQ
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Aug 31st, 2007, 10:45pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 10:02pm, castles4me wrote:
The answer is possibly in the CARET documents. Q486 pg 6

"A1 was one of a PAIR OF IDENTICAL GENERATORS, TOGETHER responsible for anti-gravity related functionality...."


I am not sure if there was another identical device of the total A1 -- or if this means that the top and bottom are both parts of the pair.


I think it's the latter, top and bottom being identical...
Also, if you took a picture of your face, and held it side by side to your face, someone else would describe it as being an identical match, when it is a mirror image...

Newt


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by wreckage on Sep 1st, 2007, 05:16am

Can anyone see a 'connection' here? 'Project Storm' from the UK. Looks like some silly personal allusion but the 'code' is interesting.. His User page also has a link to the Scrutinizer Report, among others.

A lot of 'drone' characters here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq2ONDt6n78

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCQKQLDeuHs

Can anybody hear this better than I can? My ears aren't that good (old age, don't ya know).

"This is a message to everybody, and to the person these videos are all about. As each day passes, I will reveal (something) significant information (something) this person (something) information on this person. (you have?) crossed the line more than once (something) messing with the people …messed with. (something) but if you carry on doing what you are doing.. information is revealed. Let's …

Gotta go. No time to keep flipping back to the vid. Bye now.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 1st, 2007, 06:22am

on Sep 1st, 2007, 05:16am, wreckage wrote:
A lot of 'drone' characters here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq2ONDt6n78
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCQKQLDeuHs


Hi Wreckage, it’s been a while!! grin

I’m fairly sure that the 'drone' characters you refer to are Katakana, as you can see every letter from the YouTube video has an equivalent in Katakana.
User Image

(You tube lettering has a black background and is at the bottom of the image in its entirety)

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 1st, 2007, 06:50am

on Sep 1st, 2007, 05:16am, wreckage wrote:
As each day passes, I will reveal (something) significant information (something) this person (something) information on this person. (you have?) crossed the line more than once (something) messing with the people …messed with. (something) but if you carry on doing what you are doing.. information is revealed. Let's …


No clue here. I couldn't hear it any better then you. Using the words "messing with people" does not appear to be that of an adult. It's a young individual most likely. CentralScrutinizer doesn't screw around like that so I doubt there is a connection outside of the individual simply liking Scrutinizer's videos.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by wreckage on Sep 1st, 2007, 07:04am

You're right, DrDil. I've been busy trying to code a web page and some CSS.. not much time to keep on top of the latest in UFOlogy. About all I have time for is to check YouTube for the latest UFO vids, and try to keep up with this page.

It does appear though, that as much as I would have liked it to happen, the chances of any 'drone witnesses' popping their heads up to 'tell all' are now somewhere between zilch and none. I'm afraid that my very initial take on this, percentage-wise, of Hoax: 90% - Real: 10% seems to be panning out. Good ol' Occam generally wins.

It seems that any 'disclosure' events will be left up to those who remain unrevealed to surprise us at a time entirely of their own choosing. ;-)

I will remain however, totally amazed, and bewildered (and jealous of their free time) by the motives of those who choose to spend the time and resources to pump out these apparent hoaxes ad infinitum. It's a strange world, alright. smiley

<edit to add acknowlegement of ATO's message>
Yes, you're right also. Seems like a totally unrelated youthful prank by another of those people whose access to free time makes me sick. ;-)

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 1st, 2007, 09:56am

hi wreckage; when the adults get board, they play the same hoax games to. like with the allien on mikeyblitz tread.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by isawaufooverparis on Sep 1st, 2007, 10:58am

on Aug 28th, 2007, 10:41pm, castles4me wrote:
I really can't believe someone actually paid $6 plus shipping for those three spent shell casings LOL laugh

It's mad how Americans shoot at everything they see! I will never get used to this!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by isawaufooverparis on Sep 1st, 2007, 11:29am

on Aug 29th, 2007, 7:13pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Here are a couple of Ibis at twilight but not very far up. Imagine what they would look like at a higher altitude and notice the configuration of their outline. Not saying this looks like Switzerland but it does resemble Mikey's. See the light coming off of the wing on the one on the left.

User Image

Actually, I don't think Ibis fly over England. As far as I know these birds can't cope with coldness. The higher they can be seen is in the middle of France and they settled there after escaping from zoos.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 1st, 2007, 12:48pm

on Sep 1st, 2007, 11:29am, isawaufooverparis wrote:
Actually, I don't think Ibis fly over England. As far as I know these birds can't cope with coldness. The higher they can be seen is in the middle of France and they settled there after escaping from zoos.


I don't think it matters anymore and I thought you lived in France.

on Sep 1st, 2007, 10:40am, Alienationsam wrote:
Here we go everyone case closed:

http://www.essexcountystandard.co.uk/news/iwitness/iwitnessnews/display.var.1647673.0.north_essex_ufos_were_definitely_lanterns.php

Congratulations! Skylanterns.com for yet again fooling everyone with your rubbish. rolleyes

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 1st, 2007, 5:17pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 10:30pm, castles4me wrote:
Paging DrDil -- paging DrDil...

Lights to analyze in the ropey section at the following:

http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=reports&action=post&num=1188609649"e=1188604684&start=0


I was actually serious here lol

I wanted to see if DrDil or someone could shed some light on that dark image of the purported triangle UFO from Belgium at the link above.

Or, maybe someone can tell me how to get a still shot off of this type of video so I can manipulate the photo.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 1st, 2007, 5:20pm

on Sep 1st, 2007, 5:17pm, castles4me wrote:
I was actually serious here lol

I wanted to see if DrDil or someone could shed some light on that dark image of the purported triangle UFO from Belgium at the link above.


Srry castles4me, I kept DrDil busy with something much of the day and he's probably whipped. He'll be back later.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 1st, 2007, 5:27pm

on Sep 1st, 2007, 5:20pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Srry castles4me, I kept DrDil busy with something much of the day and he's probably whipped. He'll be back later.


no problem smiley I wish I knew more about imaging smiley
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by LangLee on Sep 1st, 2007, 5:48pm

on Aug 31st, 2007, 4:40pm, bonjody wrote:
Hi!...
I have been lurking on this board for quite a while now and followed the "Isaac" Drone threads with great interest...
Overall, Isaac's story seems very believable and if true has incredible implications for our country's technological position now and in the future...
I pray that it is true, but there is one thing that has bothered me from the beginning...The Personal Antigravity device (shown in Latitude's Avatar) appears that it could be a CGI creation...

The reason I say that is because the top half seems to be a mirror image copy of the bottom half, even down to the linguistic symbols being mirror images of each other...
Now this may not be true, but to my understanding, "mirror imaging " is a tool available in 3D programs to save time for the the artist when he has 2 halves of an object that are the same. He only has to draw 1/2 of the object and the 3D program can reproduce the other half.
The only trouble in this case is that the lettering is also reproduced as an exact mirror image.

I think this was discussed very early in the threads, but I cannot find it or remember the arguments (either way) or any conclusions drawn.

Can anyone help me with this?

(PS...I saw a UFO when I was young, so I know they are real...that is not in question here!)


If you look really close, perhaps print the picture and eliminate duplicates in the picture with a pen, you'll see everything isn't duplicated.
Just don't look at it, look into it.
Quickly without pen or paper I've found 6 things that aren't duplicated.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by figneutron on Sep 1st, 2007, 7:48pm

on Sep 1st, 2007, 06:22am, DrDil wrote:
Hi Wreckage, it’s been a while!! grin

I’m fairly sure that the 'drone' characters you refer to are Katakana, as you can see every letter from the YouTube video has an equivalent in Katakana.
User Image

(You tube lettering has a black background and is at the bottom of the image in its entirety)



I am dumbfounded. So, it was a hoax, but what a hoax it was! I fail to understand why some people would create such an elaborate and complicated hoax. It must have been perpetrated by a group geniuses.

Dr. Dil, my deepest thanks for breaking the case.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by figneutron on Sep 1st, 2007, 7:58pm

on Sep 1st, 2007, 7:48pm, figneutron wrote:
I am dumbfounded. So, it was a hoax, but what a hoax it was! I fail to understand why some people would create such an elaborate and complicated hoax. It must have been perpetrated by a group geniuses.

Dr. Dil, my deepest thanks for breaking the case.



I meant to say "perpetrated by a group of geniuses": I left out the "of."


In retrospect I see that the withdrawal of the witnesses--they remained anonymous and out of contact--could have been the tipoff. In contrast, Mikey the young man from Essex, England who had a remarkable sighting came forward and was eager to join the investigation of the phenomena he observed. It, too, turned out to be a hoax, but the psychology here is revealing. These two cases taken as a whole indicate to me that those who have unusually impressive sightings are most likely to come forward to share their amazement or seek help for their fear.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 1st, 2007, 7:58pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 9:54pm, Cheop wrote:
Hi guys!

I´ve just come accross an interesting clip, may be you´ve seen that one already, I don´t know and if not, then I´m a lucky guy.

So, here it is!

Sigils, Magick, and The Ancient Alien Torah
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WHc4ecUO1HY
with mr sigils outstanding video,he should be invited to this tread.i still thing that very soon we be better informed about the drones one way or another. be it isaac or someone other than. patience what we need to know will come if its ment for us no matter what. wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by figneutron on Sep 1st, 2007, 8:07pm

on Sep 1st, 2007, 7:58pm, figneutron wrote:
I meant to say "perpetrated by a group of geniuses": I left out the "of."


In retrospect I see that the withdrawal of the witnesses--they remained anonymous and out of contact--could have been the tipoff. In contrast, Mikey the young man from Essex, England who had a remarkable sighting came forward and was eager to join the investigation of the phenomena he observed. It, too, turned out to be a hoax, but the psychology here is revealing. These two cases taken as a whole indicate to me that those who have unusually impressive sightings are most likely to come forward to share their amazement or seek help for their fear.


I failed to add that I think those who have remarkable sightings are also likely to come forward and become involved in the investigation. If we study the real and convincing alien UFO incidents of the past, I think we will find that most of the observers or contactees came forward and cooperated with investigators. They did not remain anonymous after the amazing incident they reported.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 1st, 2007, 8:21pm

on Sep 1st, 2007, 8:07pm, figneutron wrote:
I failed to add that I think those who have remarkable sightings are also likely to come forward and become involved in the investigation. If we study the real and convincing alien UFO incidents of the past, I think we will find that most of the observers or contactees came forward and cooperated with investigators. They did not remain anonymous after the amazing incident they reported.


except the drone witnesses. undecided
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 1st, 2007, 8:29pm

on Sep 1st, 2007, 8:21pm, castles4me wrote:
except the drone witnesses. undecided
right. cool
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by AgentM on Sep 1st, 2007, 10:59pm

ATO or Latitude,

I have a friend here in DC who is sorta high up in the PTO and who formerly worked in the Reagan admin. on SDI. We have been discussing the Issac hardware and he asked me to forward a link so he can "see" what I have been infering. I seem to be unable to locate the link that shows the linguistic primers as well as the hardware photos. I know you guys posted it ages ago..please repost that link if you have time.
Sincerely,

AgentM
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 1st, 2007, 11:22pm

Hi AgentM - your friend can download all of the original files here:

http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by AgentM on Sep 1st, 2007, 11:31pm

on Aug 30th, 2007, 11:55am, Latitude wrote:
What would you do if confronted by agents?


There are double agents within the system.
All is not lost yet.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by AgentM on Sep 1st, 2007, 11:37pm

Thanks MarkM, you are a true patriot.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by starsigndavid on Sep 2nd, 2007, 12:05am

I have been laid up for a few days with a bad back, but I checked the thread tonight and saw references to the whole drone thing being a HOAXhuh Yet I can't find any postings where that determination was made by any meaningful consensus. Have I missed something? It really is a hoaxhuh!??! If so, I am going to go back to bed for a year and give up on believing my own instincts about ANYTHING anymore!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 2nd, 2007, 05:24am

on Sep 1st, 2007, 7:48pm, figneutron wrote:
I am dumbfounded. So, it was a hoax, but what a hoax it was! I fail to understand why some people would create such an elaborate and complicated hoax. It must have been perpetrated by a group geniuses.

Dr. Dil, my deepest thanks for breaking the case.

No, you misunderstand!!

The still image is taken from a YouTube video that, “Wreckage” thought may have something to do with the Drones, but it was Katakana lettering, all the image showed was the alphabet in question and the lettering from the YouTube video was a match and as such has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DRONES.

I was just answering the question that Wreckage asked.
on Sep 2nd, 2007, 12:05am, starsigndavid wrote:
I have been laid up for a few days with a bad back, but I checked the thread tonight and saw references to the whole drone thing being a HOAXhuh Yet I can't find any postings where that determination was made by any meaningful consensus. Have I missed something? It really is a hoaxhuh!??! If so, I am going to go back to bed for a year and give up on believing my own instincts about ANYTHING anymore!


I assume that this is what you are referring to as well Dave as it hasn’t being proved/accepted as a hoax (YET!!) wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by isawaufooverparis on Sep 2nd, 2007, 06:33am

on Sep 1st, 2007, 12:48pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
I don't think it matters anymore and I thought you lived in France.


I do live in France. Sky Lanterns are very expensive! I'm sure it's worth nothing in Asia... I hope the English will soon discover they're being fooled.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by isawaufooverparis on Sep 2nd, 2007, 06:41am

on Sep 1st, 2007, 8:07pm, figneutron wrote:
I failed to add that I think those who have remarkable sightings are also likely to come forward and become involved in the investigation. If we study the real and convincing alien UFO incidents of the past, I think we will find that most of the observers or contactees came forward and cooperated with investigators. They did not remain anonymous after the amazing incident they reported.

Don't forget that one of the drones' witnesses (I don't remember which one) came forward and told his story on the Open Minds forum.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 2nd, 2007, 06:53am

on Sep 1st, 2007, 5:17pm, castles4me wrote:
Paging DrDil -- paging DrDil...
Lights to analyze in the ropey section at the following:

I was actually serious here lol

I wanted to see if DrDil or someone could shed some light on that dark image of the purported triangle UFO from Belgium at the link above.

Or, maybe someone can tell me how to get a still shot off of this type of video so I can manipulate the photo.


The links no good, but I found it anyway.......

I’ve tried c4m and can’t do anything with it, although as it turns and the light disappears it would seem to suggest that it is a triangular shaped object with lights on the three corners.

And if you tweak the contrast/brightness you can just make out the edges connecting the lights, but as it’s a dark craft against a dark sky it is almost imperceptible.

User Image

on Sep 1st, 2007, 5:20pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Srry castles4me, I kept DrDil busy with something much of the day and he's probably whipped. He'll be back later.

(Yep, ATO's a very strict mistress!! wink)
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 2nd, 2007, 07:25am

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 06:53am, DrDil wrote:
User Image

(Yep, ATO's a very strict mistress!! wink)

Supply replenished. He's good to go again.grin
User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 2nd, 2007, 07:46am

in reference to the Belgium UFO video reported in "recent UFO reports"
on Sep 2nd, 2007, 06:53am, DrDil wrote:
I’ve tried c4m and can’t do anything with it, although as it turns and the light disappears it would seem to suggest that it is a triangular shaped object with lights on the three corners.

And if you tweak the contrast/brightness you can just make out the edges connecting the lights, but as it’s a dark craft against a dark sky it is almost imperceptible.


Well, thanks for trying DrDil.... I think that video looks very real. I know that Belgium has had lots of the triangular UFO sightings over the years. I wonder if it's their tech ??

Or, that particular race, just really likes Belgium lol
I know that there have been triangle sightings elsewhere as well. Most famously in Belgium though.



Careful -- ATO -- like our southern saying goes -- "give'm enough rope, he might just hang himself!"
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 2nd, 2007, 08:05am

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 07:46am, castles4me wrote:
Careful -- ATO -- like our southern saying goes -- "give'm enough rope, he might just hang himself!"

You should be so lucky c4m!! wink
I see you’ve located your sense of humour then, (although personally I’d still double check it as it’s probably a fake. grin)
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 2nd, 2007, 08:16am

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 08:05am, DrDil wrote:
You should be so lucky c4m!! wink
I see you’ve located your sense of humour then, (although personally I’d still double check it as it’s probably a fake. grin)


I have a great sense of humor, and locate it often. Thanks.

Also, what is fake? My sense of humor or the photo of the rope?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 2nd, 2007, 08:31am

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 08:16am, castles4me wrote:
I have a great sense of humor, and locate it often. Thanks.

Also, what is fake? My sense of humor or the photo of the rope?


That would be your sense of humour that I was referring to, (you made a joke to which I replied with a joke.)

Again, my apologies c4m. In future and when it concerns you I’ll just desist from quipping as for some reason it's always translated as a pedantic and contentious diatribe.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 2nd, 2007, 09:38am

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 08:31am, DrDil wrote:
That would be your sense of humour that I was referring to, (you made a joke to which I replied with a joke.)

Again, my apologies c4m. In future and when it concerns you I’ll just desist from quipping as for some reason it's always translated as a pedantic and contentious diatribe.


Oh, Ok -- I didn't see the smiley with the big teeth the first time I read it lol yes, a joke.... I get it laugh laugh laugh

no need to desist from quipping kiss I will endeavor to desist in interpreting your quipping as derogatory invective. grin me know big word too tongue
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 2nd, 2007, 10:26am

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 09:38am, castles4me wrote:
Oh, Ok -- I didn't see the smiley with the big teeth the first time I read it lol yes, a joke.... I get it laugh laugh laugh

no need to desist from quipping kiss I will endeavor to desist in interpreting your quipping as derogatory invective. grin me know big word too tongue


Forgive my formal tone, it’s just I didn’t want the substance of my comment to be translated as another, “Derogatory invective.”

(RE: "me know big word too") I don’t know if it’s my deliberate eschewal of sarcasm bereft dialogue, but it’s by no means endemic to forums, in fact the panoply of my ruminations are inherently detrimental but none are mendacious by intent or design, and any purported malfeasance is merely the readers externalization on a preconscious level. kiss

Now, where’s that rope………….

User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by starsigndavid on Sep 2nd, 2007, 10:39am

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 05:24am, DrDil wrote:
No, you misunderstand!!

The still image is taken from a YouTube video that, “Wreckage” thought may have something to do with the Drones, but it was Katakana lettering, all the image showed was the alphabet in question and the lettering from the YouTube video was a match and as such has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DRONES.

THANK YOU, DrDil! I admit I was reading through my haze of muscle relaxers and pain medication! I appreciate the clarification! smiley


I assume that this is what you are referring to as well Dave as it hasn’t being proved/accepted as a hoax (YET!!) wink

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 2nd, 2007, 10:52am

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 10:26am, DrDil wrote:
Forgive my formal tone, it’s just I didn’t want the substance of my comment to be translated as another, “Derogatory invective.”

(RE: "me know big word too") I don’t know if it’s my deliberate eschewal of sarcasm bereft dialogue, but it’s by no means endemic to forums, in fact the panoply of my ruminations are inherently detrimental but none are mendacious by intent or design, and any purported malfeasance is merely the readers externalization on a preconscious level. kiss

Now, where’s that rope………….

User Image


I know excactly what you mean, big words mean nothing to the greater Forum if not evidence of higher evaluation of the case in mention. If not understandable, no one benefits from it.

Cave Canem (Latin, look this up!)

--VonStern




Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 2nd, 2007, 11:14am

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 10:26am, DrDil wrote:
I don’t know if it’s my deliberate eschewal of sarcasm bereft dialogue, but it’s by no means endemic to forums, in fact the panoply of my ruminations are inherently detrimental but none are mendacious by intent or design, and any purported malfeasance is merely the readers externalization on a preconscious level. kiss


I see someone dusted off their Thesaurus. shocked


Hey all you dronies -- come post with us dunies over here lol

http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=mars&action=display&num=1168551106&start=0#1188748372

No really.... this is very interesting are these anomalies in Mars photos covered up by NASA ?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 2nd, 2007, 12:09pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 10:52am, VonStern wrote:
Cave Canem (Latin, look this up!)
--VonStern

Haud postulo quod memor, "Illigetimi non carborundum"
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 2nd, 2007, 12:43pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 12:09pm, DrDil wrote:
Haud postulo quod memor, "Illigetimi non carborundum"


No, why? We are observative creatures, do not anyone throw down our beliefs....

--VonStern

PS: Don't let the ba**ards get you down (Translated for the Forum members!) grin grin grin

Edit: Strong words, DrDil - Do your vocabulary extend your degree in Phd evaluation, or is it just as Castles said, in the Thesaurus? Anyway, I welcome this, as it helps other members to see, that an extinct spoken language can be desciffered, now let us see your obvious skills at work, when working on "Isaac"'s Primers...Barcode and all! grin

--VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 2nd, 2007, 12:52pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 12:43pm, VonStern wrote:
No, why? We are observative creatures, do not anyone throw down our beliefs....

--VonStern

PS: Don't let the ba**ards get you down (Translated for the Forum members!) grin grin grin


I meant no need for me to look it up. grin wink laugh

(You may want to edit the expletive with a couple of stars or symbols as it’s a family friendly forum)
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:01pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 12:52pm, DrDil wrote:
I meant no need for me to look it up. grin wink laugh

(You may want to edit the expletive with a couple of stars or symbols as it’s a family friendly forum)


DrDil, I'm just playing around...alongside with you! cool

VonStern

Ps: Editing notice taken. Thanks. lipsrsealed
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:10pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:06pm, figneutron wrote:
i saw that last night you was mislead. reason i would not post behind you. drones are real. wink















Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. I will readly the posts more carefully in the future. It is a tricky thread to follow now with comparisons being made to various alleged real and purposely hoaxed photos.

A second point: I thought the Califonia eye witnesses had not come forward to identify themselves and had not cooperated with the investigation.



No, you misunderstand!!
TEXTTEXT
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by figneutron on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:15pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:10pm, jugement wrote:
TEXTTEXT


I got it now. The character match to the inauthentic photo meant nothing. The drone saga continues.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:19pm

Quote:
A second point: I thought the Califonia eye witnesses had not come forward to identify themselves and had not cooperated with the investigation.


A few of the Drone sightings were in California so I’m not sure which one you mean, although none of the witnesses have made contact after the initial report.

Rajman1977 popped up momentarily on OMF, but was a little disappointing as he avoided all direct questions and really just paraphrased his initial email.

Different, “Witnesses” from those who submitted the pictures have since been interviewed by LMH (available in three podcasts.). But all came forward, “After the fact.”

And not really a witness but Isaac contacted LMH after she levelled some criticisms at him and replied in two emails, but I think that’s about it.

Hope it helps…..

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:19pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:15pm, figneutron wrote:
I got it now. The character match to the inauthentic photo meant nothing. The drone saga continues.
knew you would come around. grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:25pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:15pm, figneutron wrote:
I got it now. The character match to the inauthentic photo meant nothing. The drone saga continues.

Yeah, it wasn’t even an image, it was a YouTube video that a forum member, “Wreckage” had seen and he thought it had Drone lettering in it.

The image I showed was a still image of the YouTube video and the Katakana alphabet to show that the YouTube video wasn’t affiliated with the Drones and as such bore no relevance.

(I thought I'd better clarify things before I get wrong off Jugement) wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:26pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:15pm, figneutron wrote:
I got it now. The character match to the inauthentic photo meant nothing. The drone saga continues.


Katakana are wide spread. Therefor symbols will occur in allmost any Eastern World text or symbol language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana

It has been discussed thoroughly in this continous thread.

It is somewhat similar to some writings on the "Primers" and on the Drones, but that's where the comparison stops.

--VonStern

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 2nd, 2007, 4:24pm

Until this Drone Enigma is proven hoax, we have to assume it is real. Unless "Isaac" provides
new evidence, or new witnesses join in, I for one are so close to see this as "IS" and it might
just go into the annals of UFO history.

The items provided by EyeWitnesses, and the whole unfolding story in this very vast symposium
of thinkers, who have worked entirely for no benefits at all, should not be dismissed at any length.

The work done here, are far more indepth in it's nature to disregard even if debunked.

I do not see why this whole thread should demise, it has so much potential, and even if the truth
should provide otherwise, it stands as interpretations of multiple minds working side by side.

Imagine, if we were to meet much stronger enigma, this is the Forum I would prefer the task given.

There are things in this world, that need more attention, but you guy's an´ girls have prooven your
wit.

Now, to look forward, look in the future, seek and you'll find.

Every stone hasn't yet been turned, give it a go while the time is.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 2nd, 2007, 4:54pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:19pm, DrDil wrote:
Rajman1977 popped up momentarily on OMF, but was a little disappointing as he avoided all direct questions and really just paraphrased his initial email.


I must correct you here. Raj made a good attempt to answer very many questions directly. He did answer all of my questions one by one. But there were so many questions from so many different posters that he was quickly overwhelmed. I think the mods should have organized the question/answer session a little better. It all came to an end with the hacking of his flickr account and his last message to admin was that he felt very uncomfortable and was getting late night calls.

Let's not whitewash what happened. Many people easily discount the event. It was one of the most fascinating episodes in the entire saga. In my life I have learned one thing above all. When that little voice in the back of your head keeps telling you things that seem far fetched, more often than not it is telling you the truth.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 2nd, 2007, 5:39pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 1:25pm, DrDil wrote:
Yeah, it wasn’t even an image, it was a YouTube video that a forum member, “Wreckage” had seen and he thought it had Drone lettering in it.

The image I showed was a still image of the YouTube video and the Katakana alphabet to show that the YouTube video wasn’t affiliated with the Drones and as such bore no relevance.

(I thought I'd better clarify things before I get wrong off Jugement) wink
drdil; in my book you latitude and roh and others are top rated scientist in my book.id rather here from you guys that you proved it a hoax than any one ealse.you guys have great intentions about this serious matter.all of you guys and gals ,like ronnstern stated best keep up with your great work. grin grin grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:01pm

OK... guys... here is a challenge to you all.

Re-read the Isaac letter and the PACL documents, then post something here that is a new revelation -- something that you didn't think of before, or something that struck you in a stronger way this time.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:12pm

It all begins here:

http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/

Once again, new eyes sees better than old ones..

Castles4Me, that is what you mean, right? grin

Please compare to the TY BigBasin Hires Picture! That's where the gold is!

If anyone can establish a connection between these sightings and the "Isaac" Primers..then we have the answer we've been longing for! cool

VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:24pm

Ok..... here is the first thing I see.

"I am also trying to get in touch with the witnesses so far, such as Chad, Rajman, Jenna, Ty, and the Lake Tahoe witness (especially Chad). I have advice for them that may be somewhat helpful in dealing with what they've seen and what I would recommend they do with what they know. If you are one of these witnesses, or can put me in touch with them, please contact Coast to Coast AM and let them know."

Now.... if LMH or anyone else had contact information for the witnesses did they give it to Isaac ?

And, I wonder what he would have told them?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:32pm

I must admit, that when I saw the BB pictures for the first time, it cried CGI right in my face, but when I saw the enhanced items, I was no longer in doubt. This had relavance. It shows, what you dismiss in the first place, might just be the truth, even if not possible at the time, as one's mind said otherwise!

I have never doubted the BB photo's since then!

It's clear that the "Isaac Primer" has hard evidence as seen on the TY BB Hires scan. These things are connected, no doubt.

--VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:42pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:32pm, VonStern wrote:
I must admit, that when I saw the BB pictures for the first time, it cried CGI right in my face, but when I saw the enhanced items, I was no longer in doubt. This had relavance. It shows, what you dismiss in the first place, might just be the truth, even if not possible at the time, as one's mind said otherwise!

I have never doubted the BB photo's since then!

It's clear that the "Isaac Primer" has hard evidence as seen on the TY BB Hires scan. These things are connected, no doubt.

--VonStern


I think the linguistics primers and the Big Basin drone panels are the most intriguing aspect of the drone phenomenon.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:46pm

Ok, here is one more item to question and I am not even finished with the first page of reading! lol

"The technology itself isn't ours, or at least it wasn't in the 80's. Much like the technology in these crafts themselves, the device capable of remotely hijacking a vehicle's clacking comes from a non-human source too. Why we were given this technology has never been clear to me, but it's responsible for a lot. Our having access to this kind of device, along with our occasionally haphazard experimentation on them, has lead to everything from cloaking malfunctions like this to full-blown crashes. I can assure you that most (and in my opinion all) incidents of UFO crashes or that kind of thing had more to do with our meddling with extremely powerful technology at an inopportune time than it did mechanical failure on their part. Trust me, those things don't fail unless something even more powerful than them makes them fail (intentionally or not). Think of it like a stray bullet. You can be hit by one at any time, without warning, and even the shooter didn't intent to hit you. I can assure you heads are rolling over this as well."

OK... in this it says "Why were we given this technology has never been clear to me" -- I think this is a very important statement.

Because, this proves that we have had contact with the aliens. Not just that we got one of their crashed drones and started making commercial apps from it....

The fact is that We were GIVEN the anti-cloaking technology, a very POWERFUL technology.

Why were we given it, and what did we give in exchange?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:47pm

Did anyone catch the August 31 C2C show? According to a post on the OM site LMH did say that she is still in email contact with Isaac. The second hour was call in, any drone questions?

The thing that bothers me is that one of the scenarios that we've entertained here is that "they" got to Isaac, hence the sudden silence. I would think that if LMH could put that concern to rest it would be a great relief and an indicator that we may yet see more info released. I'm very puzzled by her stance sad.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:53pm

Further, the actual Drone seen in TY BB photo's has link to the "Artifacts" included in the "Isaac" portfolio... makes it even more credible...

It's of the same nature, only more enhanced..

If one were to make a hoax, this is WAY beond any imagination, I guess...it's too complex!

VonStern

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:59pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:47pm, MarkM wrote:
Did anyone catch the August 31 C2C show? According to a post on the OM site LMH did say that she is still in email contact with Isaac. The second hour was call in, any drone questions?

The thing that bothers me is that one of the scenarios that we've entertained here is that "they" got to Isaac, hence the sudden silence. I would think that if LMH could put that concern to rest it would be a great relief and an indicator that we may yet see more info released. I'm very puzzled by her stance sad.


My Guess on this, is they all were "Silenced" .

Maybe we have already had too much "evidence"?

Just MHO, but that just might answer the disregards of this whole matter.

Silencing the witnesses, so that we stand "AS IS"?

VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 2nd, 2007, 7:21pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:42pm, castles4me wrote:
I think the linguistics primers and the Big Basin drone panels are the most intriguing aspect of the drone phenomenon.


I think that the science behind artificial intelligence (computers) of the days leading into the PACL research is evidence in itself. I wouldn't be surprised if a scientist working on a similar topic of this article was our Isaac. Maybe not these listed on this particular article, but someone in a similar line of study at the time. A woman actually wrote this article in the 1982 issue of AI Magazine (artificial Intelligence Magazine -- but I couldn't access the rest of the article because you have to be a member of AAAI)

MarkM -- here is your symbol's too!

Can't you just see this science being studied to determine the linguistics primers?


1982 issue of AI Magazine, Vol. 3 no. 2

Signal-to-Symbol Transformation: HASP/SIAP Case Study
H. Penny Nii, Edward A. Feigenbaum, John J. Anton

Artificial Intelligence is that part of Computer Science that concerns itself with the concepts and methods of symbolic inference and symbolic representation of knowledge. Its point of departure -- it’s most fundamental concept -- is what Newell and Simon called (in their Turing Award Lecture) "the physical symbol system" (Newell and Simon,1976). But within the last fifteen years, it has concerned itself also with signals -- with the interpretation or understanding of signal data. AI researchers have discussed "signal-to symbol transformations," and their programs have shown how appropriate use of symbolic manipulations can be of great use in making signal processing more effective and efficient. Indeed, the programs for signal understanding have been fruitful, powerful, and among the most widely recognized of AI’s achievements.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 2nd, 2007, 7:24pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 6:59pm, VonStern wrote:
My Guess on this, is they all were "Silenced" .


Well if Latitude said that when Rajman was posting on OMF he said he was getting late night phone calls and never posted again.... I think that is very telling.

There is a really dark side to our government, that if they need to, can silence anyone. Scary.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 2nd, 2007, 7:29pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 7:21pm, castles4me wrote:
I think that the science behind artificial intelligence (computers) of the days leading into the PACL research is evidence in itself. I wouldn't be surprised if a scientist working on a similar topic of this article was our Isaac. Maybe not these listed on this particular article, but someone in a similar line of study at the time. A woman actually wrote this article in the 1982 issue of AI Magazine (artificial Intelligence Magazine -- but I couldn't access the rest of the article because you have to be a member of AAAI)

MarkM -- here is your symbol's too!

Can't you just see this science being studied to determine the linguistics primers?


1982 issue of AI Magazine, Vol. 3 no. 2

Signal-to-Symbol Transformation: HASP/SIAP Case Study
H. Penny Nii, Edward A. Feigenbaum, John J. Anton

Artificial Intelligence is that part of Computer Science that concerns itself with the concepts and methods of symbolic inference and symbolic representation of knowledge. Its point of departure -- it’s most fundamental concept -- is what Newell and Simon called (in their Turing Award Lecture) "the physical symbol system" (Newell and Simon,1976). But within the last fifteen years, it has concerned itself also with signals -- with the interpretation or understanding of signal data. AI researchers have discussed "signal-to symbol transformations," and their programs have shown how appropriate use of symbolic manipulations can be of great use in making signal processing more effective and efficient. Indeed, the programs for signal understanding have been fruitful, powerful, and among the most widely recognized of AI’s achievements.



Castles4Me, great find!

This allmost prooves why silencing witnesses are "Up to Date"...knowing the origin are "Classified Information"!!

Jezalou, you just stepped into the true nature of this! grin

--VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 2nd, 2007, 7:33pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 4:54pm, Latitude wrote:
I must correct you here. Raj made a good attempt to answer very many questions directly. He did answer all of my questions one by one.

Let's not whitewash what happened. Many people easily discount the event. It was one of the most fascinating episodes in the entire saga. In my life I have learned one thing above all. When that little voice in the back of your head keeps telling you things that seem far fetched, more often than not it is telling you the truth.


The little voice in my head was asking the only question which needed answering which was what newspaper did he send the photos to as he claimed on his Flikr account.

Raj’s first post was May 31, 2007, at 2:26am
Four minutes later (May 31, 2007, 2:30am) Shadow asked

“Hey Raj,
You mentioned sending the pictures to a newspaper.
What newspaper did you send the pictures to?
What method did you use to send them?
Did you follow up or hear anything back from the paper?
Just a few off the top of my head as i think this thing should be front page news!
Thanks
Shads “

There’s no way he could have missed that question, it was asked repeatedly, I feel it was the only question that needed answering and Rajman1977 never even acknowledged it, now that’s a whitewash.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DdP on Sep 2nd, 2007, 8:10pm

OMF Ivo5000 said on June 10th that he got the answer via email from Rajman1977, and it was the Santa Cruz Sentinel :

"Until we get Raj back here to answer the many specific questions we all have, here a few bits and pieces from the e-mails he sent to us today:

re: the newspaper - Also the Sentinel never got back to us. My fiances brother was the one who sent the email to them (he originally got the pictures for me off their camera, he has really been a help through all this). He said he followed up but has been getting no response.

re: reactions of family members present - I have spoken with everyone in Capitola and am getting mixed reactions. My in-laws are not comfortable with any of this but my fiances brother is very interested in it all. I am not sure if her parents will be cooperative but my fiance and her brother will certainly try to send something.

re: additional questions we have - If there are any other questions your forum would like to know, I would be happy to answer...

re: media (non)reaction - I was surprised when more people didnt respond after what happened in Capitola, but now this is just getting so crazy. I always thought if something like this happened it would be all over the media. But so far there is nothing and it makes no sense.

I hope that will keep you satisfied for a little while."
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 2nd, 2007, 8:18pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 7:21pm, castles4me wrote:
[b]Signal-to-Symbol Transformation: HASP/SIAP Case Study[/b]
H. Penny Nii, Edward A. Feigenbaum, John J. Anton

..... But within the last fifteen years, it has concerned itself also with signals -- with the interpretation or understanding of signal data. AI researchers have discussed "signal-to symbol transformations," and their programs have shown how appropriate use of symbolic manipulations can be of great use in making signal processing more effective and efficient. Indeed, the programs for signal understanding have been fruitful, powerful, and among the most widely recognized of AI’s achievements.


If you remember waaaaay back in the beginning of this, some of us who get things in a somewhat less traditional manner smiley made some posts in what we affectionately called the "weird" thread. One thing that was very clear to me in what I got was that "they" kept referring to the symbols as SIGNALS. very specific and insistent use of that word. Reading that article makes it clear to me why this was such an important point. Nice, Castles.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 2nd, 2007, 8:29pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 8:10pm, DdP wrote:
OMF Ivo5000 said on June 10th that he got the answer via email from Rajman1977, and it was the Santa Cruz Sentinel :

"Until we get Raj back here to answer the many specific questions we all have, here a few bits and pieces from the e-mails he sent to us today:

re: the newspaper - Also the Sentinel never got back to us. My fiances brother was the one who sent the email to them (he originally got the pictures for me off their camera, he has really been a help through all this). He said he followed up but has been getting no response.

re: reactions of family members present - I have spoken with everyone in Capitola and am getting mixed reactions. My in-laws are not comfortable with any of this but my fiances brother is very interested in it all. I am not sure if her parents will be cooperative but my fiance and her brother will certainly try to send something.

re: additional questions we have - If there are any other questions your forum would like to know, I would be happy to answer...

re: media (non)reaction - I was surprised when more people didnt respond after what happened in Capitola, but now this is just getting so crazy. I always thought if something like this happened it would be all over the media. But so far there is nothing and it makes no sense.

I hope that will keep you satisfied for a little while."


That's REALLY good news DdP. Please keep us informed as you learn more.

Thanks!

Make sure they understand (if you get in touch that is) that the media will never happen until he comes out of the closet - since it's all about witnesses..................

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 2nd, 2007, 8:52pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 8:18pm, MarkM wrote:
If you remember waaaaay back in the beginning of this, some of us who get things in a somewhat less traditional manner smiley made some posts in what we affectionately called the "weird" thread. One thing that was very clear to me in what I got was that "they" kept referring to the symbols as SIGNALS. very specific and insistent use of that word. Reading that article makes it clear to me why this was such an important point. Nice, Castles.


yeah, when I saw that, I thought of you and the symbols=signals post of yours. This article was just at the dawn of the artificial intelligence age, those scientists at PACL were barely learning computer languaging and were trying to figure out these complex linguistics primers. But, I bet that what they did there has influenced the computer age dramatically!
I bet with todays advances in computer programming whatever group of scientists that have worked on those primers over the last twenty years have cracked the nut.

Wouldn't you just love to know what those primers mean?

you know.... I remember when someone posted the picture of the linguistics primer language with a very beautiful orange background, I had the overwhelming sense of wanting to touch them... to activate them, kind of like touch screen technology.

It may be that, in addition to them being signals to operate the drone's functionality, they can probably be turned on in more than one way. Maybe by touch, and maybe by telepathic control (S1) probably locally by S1 and possibly even remotely by S1 type device from a mother ship.

And, the power on/off switch (signal) is:

User Image

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 2nd, 2007, 9:28pm

castle4me you go girl.i to think its touch screen operational. you make good points as a scientist. just got finished whacthing Larry king rerun show on UFOs. now if you noticed buzz looks as if a bell went off in his head reminding him (quiet says the government) and he started talking about magic instead of what he saw. wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by isawaufooverparis on Sep 3rd, 2007, 04:15am

A very good video of a triangle
and ?

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Nephilim on Sep 3rd, 2007, 10:26am

I think, if real, that the video shows a military craft.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 3rd, 2007, 10:54am

I anybody here a subscriber to C2C? I ask because there have been messages posted on OMF lately that LMH said on C2C last friday night that Isaac is still in contact her. I'd like to confirm that.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by urantia606 on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:13am

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 10:54am, Latitude wrote:
I anybody here a subscriber to C2C? I ask because there have been messages posted on OMF lately that LMH said on C2C last friday night that Isaac is still in contact her. I'd like to confirm that.


I thought I heard the entire program and that nothing was said about Isaac, drones etc.

But I could have missed something.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by urantia606 on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:15am

Castles 4me writes:

[quote author=castles4me link=board=drone&num=1188266784&start=165#11 date=1188776771]Ok, here is one more item to question and I am not even finished with the first page of reading! lol]

I encourage everyone to read the Isaac letter from his website (he posted it last June). I see that Castles is reading it.

It contains a lot of information that relates to this discussion.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 3rd, 2007, 12:05pm

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:13am, urantia606 wrote:
I thought I heard the entire program and that nothing was said about Isaac, drones etc.

But I could have missed something.


I heard a quick mention of it from LMH but I admit I was not focused on what she said. I only heard the first hour. Did she stay on for the second? Are there any sites that archive the shows for download?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by urantia606 on Sep 3rd, 2007, 12:47pm

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 12:05pm, Latitude wrote:
I heard a quick mention of it from LMH but I admit I was not focused on what she said. I only heard the first hour. Did she stay on for the second? Are there any sites that archive the shows for download?


Yes, Linda was on for the 2nd hour but did not say anything about the drones, etc. There may be a transcript of the show but I do not know where it is located.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 3rd, 2007, 12:49pm

Quote:
I encourage everyone to read the Isaac letter from his website (he posted it last June). I see that Castles is reading it.

It contains a lot of information that relates to this discussion.


yeah... I am RE-reading it again...to see what jumps out at me. I didn't mean that I was reading it for the first time.

My suggestion is that everyone re-read it and post what stands out as something they hadn't thought about before, or something we haven't really discussed in detail yet.

We need to keep this topic going.

I made a few posts last night, if you all could read them and comment.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by GForce on Sep 3rd, 2007, 3:18pm

I haven't posted on this thread in awhile due to burnout on the topic. But for some reason last night I started to think about it again. I hope I don't repeat what anyone else has said. But I thought I'd throw this out for debate. WHAT IF ISSAC IS A WOMAN! Think about it before you laugh. We only assume Issac is a man yet no one has met him. What if ISSAC was CASSI?

Issac claims to have carried the documents tucked in his clothing. Well a woman would be less likely to be patted down. Right? I think women would seem less likely to steal so it would be easier to pass through guards.

They are drawbacks to the theory however. It's not a field that a lot of women were in at the time. But I think that may could support it as well. Just thought I'd throw it out there and see what everone thinks. Now you can laugh! wink Dan
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 3rd, 2007, 3:46pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 8:10pm, DdP wrote:
OMF Ivo5000 said on June 10th that he got the answer via email from Rajman1977, and it was the Santa Cruz Sentinel


Hi DdP, and as always your comments are more than welcome.

The point I was trying to make was that Rajman1977 was actually still online when Shadow posted that as it was four minutes and one post after his own, and he couldn’t have failed to see it, it was also raised a couple of times after that. Yet in his second and final response he completely ignored it, i.e. “Failed to acknowledge it.”

I was aware that he answered this in an email to IVO 10 days after the question was asked, which was why I said he avoided the question.

In my opinion, the fact that he answered the first question asked a whole ten days later (and he had previously been in touch with OMF admin) would certainly constitute avoiding the question, which was all I said.

Interestingly, he also appeared to answer this with no further prompting.

(Keep up the good work wink)
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 3rd, 2007, 3:56pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 4:54pm, Latitude wrote:
I must correct you here. Raj made a good attempt to answer very many questions directly. He did answer all of my questions one by one. But there were so many questions from so many different posters that he was quickly overwhelmed. I think the mods should have organized the question/answer session a little better. It all came to an end with the hacking of his flickr account and his last message to admin was that he felt very uncomfortable and was getting late night calls.

Let's not whitewash what happened. Many people easily discount the event. It was one of the most fascinating episodes in the entire saga. In my life I have learned one thing above all. When that little voice in the back of your head keeps telling you things that seem far fetched, more often than not it is telling you the truth.


Hi Latitude, yet again we have a differing of opinion or a different understanding of the facts. As you may have noticed I have deliberately not posted anything with any form of opinion in it on the Drone threads for quite some time, in fact the last few of my comments have either been joking with another member or trying to help a newer member with the facts of the case. (Occasionally when we had a hit and run I even defended the Drones by answering the post!!)

Partly because nearly all of my answers and reasoning behind them are always quite lengthy, and I also partly stopped posting so much because I was sick of constantly having to defend my every post when it was always just my opinion

Incidentally I was only trying to help another member when you felt the need to, “Correct me.” I was replying to the question,
“I thought the California eye witnesses had not come forward to identify themselves and had not cooperated with the investigation.”

Anyway, (enough of my martyrdom for now grin) back to your post that, “Corrected me.” You wrote,
“I must correct you here. Raj made a good attempt to answer very many questions directly. He did answer all of my questions one by one.” As far as I was aware, Raj only posted twice at OMF, and corresponded with OMF admin via email at least three times.

Raj’s first post, which was an introductory one which was posted on May 31, 2007, 2:26am, his next post appeared at 10:22pm again on the same day, May 31, 2007.

In between these two posts there were a total of 232 posts, only 15 of which contained questions for RAJ.

These 15 were:

1. Post by TheShadow on May 31, 2007, 2:30am
2. Post by Dragonfire on May 31, 2007, 2:34am
3. Post by spf33 on May 31, 2007, 2:36am
4. Post by colorsymphony on May 31, 2007, 2:54am
5. Post by organelle on May 31, 2007, 3:10am
6. Post by davriver209 on May 31, 2007, 3:11am
7. Post by MidusTouch on May 31, 2007, 3:35am
8. Post by filtor on May 31, 2007, 3:42am
9. Post by spf33 on May 31, 2007, 3:49am
10. Post by spf33 on May 31, 2007, 4:01am
11. Post by calikid on May 31, 2007, 4:14am
12. Post by MidusTouch on May 31, 2007, 3:35am
13. Post by filtor on May 31, 2007, 3:42am
14. Post by spf33 on May 31, 2007, 3:49am
15. Post by whoopeddog on May 31, 2007, 7:35pm

When Raj replied he specifically answered 13 questions. So obviously my next question is which poster were you and what questions did you ask that Raj answered, “One by one?”

I don’t want to bore the forum members with the specifics of this so if you VISIT THIS WEBPAGE, you will find all of the 232 posts as well as the questions asked and Rajman1977’s reply to 13 of them.

You also said that,
“It all came to an end with the hacking of his Flickr account and his last message to admin was that he felt very uncomfortable and was getting late night calls.”

I was under the impression that on the 5th June the Rajman1977 Flickr Account got hacked a couple of hours after Spf33 paid for the Pro Flickr account. But it certainly wasn’t his last email to them.

As, on the 6th June Rajman1977 contacted admin at Open Minds Forum resulting in the following post:

“I have heard from Raj. He has only just discovered what's happened to his account at Flickr - he has written to them but got no response. He has also been getting late night callers at his home.

He says he is going to read the forum and catch up.”


Then Ivo5000 said on June 10th that he got another email from Rajman1977, and it was the Santa Cruz Sentinel post that Ddp referenced earlier.

And lastly,
Post by ivo5000 on Jun 12, 2007, 2:46am
The last contact we had with Raj was Saturday. The last we had with Jenna/Stephen was Friday. We have never had contact with Chad.


This is further reinforced by Admin
Post by admin on Jun 12, 2007, 6:50pm
No further contact from anyone.
People will have to make their own minds up as to what that means to them.


“Let's not whitewash what happened.”
I wholeheartedly agree!! But also let’s not embellish it.

“Many people easily discount the event.”
I don’t.

“It was one of the most fascinating episodes in the entire saga.”
An opinion to which you are entitled sir wink

The reason I compiled the above is I believe this is how the facts get mixed up, and also how storylines become blurred with time and hazy recollections so I would appreciate it if you could reply to how you, “Corrected me,” and many thanks Lat…….
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by urantia606 on Sep 3rd, 2007, 4:40pm

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 3:18pm, GForce wrote:
I haven't posted on this thread in awhile due to burnout on the topic. But for some reason last night I started to think about it again. I hope I don't repeat what anyone else has said. But I thought I'd throw this out for debate. WHAT IF ISSAC IS A WOMAN! Think about it before you laugh. We only assume Issac is a man yet no one has met him. What if ISSAC was CASSI?

Issac claims to have carried the documents tucked in his clothing. Well a woman would be less likely to be patted down. Right? I think women would seem less likely to steal so it would be easier to pass through guards.

They are drawbacks to the theory however. It's not a field that a lot of women were in at the time. But I think that may could support it as well. Just thought I'd throw it out there and see what everone thinks. Now you can laugh! wink Dan


I didn't laugh at your suggestion. In fact the idea that Isaac is a woman also crossed my mind.

The problem is that the area of theoretical math is a subject that is dominated by males.

Also I feel that Isaac's position of middle management and his rapid rise to that level is not, unfortunately, typical of females in a male dominated industry of the military industrial complex.

But then this could be an exception. Time will tell. Maybe by calling Isaac a woman this'll smoke him out a bit more.%20grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 3rd, 2007, 4:50pm

on Sep 2nd, 2007, 7:21pm, castles4me wrote:
I think that the science behind artificial intelligence (computers) of the days leading into the PACL research is evidence in itself. I wouldn't be surprised if a scientist working on a similar topic of this article was our Isaac. Maybe not these listed on this particular article, but someone in a similar line of study at the time. A woman actually wrote this article in the 1982 issue of AI Magazine (artificial Intelligence Magazine -- but I couldn't access the rest of the article because you have to be a member of AAAI)

MarkM -- here is your symbols/signals too!

Can't you just see this science being studied to determine the linguistics primers?


1982 issue of AI Magazine, Vol. 3 no. 2

Signal-to-Symbol Transformation: HASP/SIAP Case Study
H. Penny Nii, Edward A. Feigenbaum, John J. Anton

Artificial Intelligence is that part of Computer Science that concerns itself with the concepts and methods of symbolic inference and symbolic representation of knowledge. Its point of departure -- it’s most fundamental concept -- is what Newell and Simon called (in their Turing Award Lecture) "the physical symbol system" (Newell and Simon,1976). But within the last fifteen years, it has concerned itself also with signals -- with the interpretation or understanding of signal data. AI researchers have discussed "signal-to symbol transformations," and their programs have shown how appropriate use of symbolic manipulations can be of great use in making signal processing more effective and efficient. Indeed, the programs for signal understanding have been fruitful, powerful, and among the most widely recognized of AI’s achievements.



Funny you mention that G-force -- I had just posted this yesterday. This article was written by Penny Nii -- a WOMAN. I am sure there were plenty of women in the field. I don't think she is Isaac, but I guess in theory Isaac could be a woman. For some reason I doubt it, just because I think the chauvinistic bureaucracy probably wouldn't have hired her for a secret lab project rubbing elbows with men day in and day out.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 3rd, 2007, 4:55pm

An Message For "Saladfinger" (no "s") -

Since you registered using this name only long enough to post an inappropriate image - nudity in any form is totally unacceptable - I cannot deal with this in private (which I would have preferred).

No doubt the nickname and the image were meant to stir up trouble and therefore the likelihood that you'll revisit this thread is high. So this is your warning. Constructive, respectful posts are always welcome, obscenity is not.

(Your image has been posted in the Moderators forum so that Casebook staff are aware.)
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 3rd, 2007, 5:10pm

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 4:55pm, MarkM wrote:
An Message For "Saladfinger" (no "s") -

Since you registered using this name only long enough to post an inappropriate image - nudity in any form is totally unacceptable - I cannot deal with this in private (which I would have preferred).

No doubt the nickname and the image were meant to stir up trouble and therefore the likelihood that you'll revisit this thread is high. So this is your warning. Constructive, respectful posts are always welcome, obscenity is not.

(Your image has been posted in the Moderators forum so that Casebook staff are aware.)


did he post it right here in this thread? My kids were just over here looking at this page. (not that they read it, but they see me on the computer.)

Maybe it is someone else and not Saladfinger from OMF? Just wondering.... maybe someone trying to sabatoge his name. Or him.. I don't know... I have never gone to OMF.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by isawaufooverparis on Sep 3rd, 2007, 6:05pm

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 5:10pm, castles4me wrote:
did he post it right here in this thread? My kids were just over here looking at this page. (not that they read it, but they see me on the computer.)

Maybe it is someone else and not Saladfinger from OMF? Just wondering.... maybe someone trying to sabatoge his name. Or him.. I don't know... I have never gone to OMF.

I don't think it is Saladfingers from OpenMinds as he is obsessed with drones but nothing else! I really can't imagine him using such revolting images.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 3rd, 2007, 6:08pm

Re: Chad
As you know, I was planning on doing an article about the downfall of ufology and its researchers. (MUFON/LMH in particular). I've given up on the idea even though I have a lot of information, I have good reasons not to do so.

Anyway, I went in the following and found Steve Neill - (This is the Steve that MUFON brought in about the Chad photos)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=121

Steve Neill was a member in there but quit a month after registering at 10-01-2005. The CGI part of Steve I believe may be debatable. He does special affects, he has used CGI but he's primarily an RC model builder. Read here what he has to say about his experience in Sept. 2004. Keep in mind that Saladfingers has 11 years (I think he said) under his belt.
Quote:
U812
09-03-2004, 10:44 PM
Thanks guys. I don't know if I'm more experienced or not. Certainly not with CGI but I have worked in film for a long time on all kinds of effects.

An expert in three years? Debatable.

To read what he writes, he's really a super guy and both wife and him are dealing with cancer (yes both) so tread lightly. You can somewhat tell how much experience he did not have based on his posts at this address. Actually, it's as if that is when he started using CGI but then again remember most of his time is building RC models.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/search.php?searchid=5668063

Just an F.Y.I., Steve Neill is a member in multitudes of forums and has upwards of 20,000 posts. But, these are all RC model forums.

The comments made in the MUFON's infamous email to UFO Updates were not Steves. Mark D' Antonio answered the whys and wherefores on Chad.

Steve has his own forum now at the following address. So if you want to get his actual opinion on what he really thought about the Chad photos and why, you can put a bug in his ear at the following address. He's screen name member U812 and it should be someone with CGI background that asks him the questions.
http://www.subpirates.com/

Lastly, Mark D' Antonio was MUFONs other "expert" as you already know. The following you've already seen and I'll tell you now that they are Mark's clients that he builds models for.

United States Joint Chiefs, Washington D.C
Curtiss Wright Flow Control Corporation
Northrop Grumman / Newport News
General Dynamics
Nautilus Memorial Museum
USS Connecticut (SSN22) Commissioning Committee
Naval War College Museum
Lockheed Martin, Undersea Systems (Virginia), Space Systems (Sunnyvale)
Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC), Carderock, MD
Smithsonian Institution / EDS, Washington, DC
The United States Congress
The Foreign Ambassadors to the United States
United States Navy
GMD/Japan Research Laboratory Kitakyushu Japan
NAVSEA (US NAVY)
US Congress

And to think that he was a MUFON investigator while these were his clients. Some don't think it matters but some do. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but it's bothersome.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 3rd, 2007, 6:25pm

No, I definitely DO NOT think it is Saladfingers (with an S) from OMF. It is someone directing a message to Saladfingers. Although I'm not going to make accusations within the forum, think about who that fits. You'll get it. The image posted was a remake of the "CGI Drones For Dummies" spoof that Saladfingers did (directed at a specific individual,yet another hint).
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 3rd, 2007, 6:25pm



it's not saladfingers. I did an IP check and it's Lev's state and him and saladfingers go head to head all the time.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Sep 3rd, 2007, 6:54pm

The following was posted on OM by 45letters. I believe he nailed why Isaac selected his name, its an anagram:

"Funny how Isaac + Caret = IsaacCaret or with 2 letters changed in the middle = Is a seC*ret a play on words or an anagram.. the letters "a.. c.. a.." would be changed to "s.. e... *.." nobody seems to have mentioned this or discussed this before."

Curious to hear what others here think about that.

http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=cali1&action=display&thread=1187811312&page=2
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 3rd, 2007, 7:07pm

To bring you up to speed on an event that is taking place over at OMF, read the following.

Our member and OMF member Elevenaugust contacted a photograph expert who is using the screen name of "noise1analyst" and is responding to questions in OMF. He's currently not there but he did post this earlier.

Hi everybody!
I decided add some comments here directly, so that Elevenaugust doesn't have to copy my messages from e-mails.
Nemo492 asked: " Is it correct tu sum up saying : we have 6 real photographs from Raj, no CGI or embedded objects, and dysnchro in 4 of them can be explained by cropping or resizing.. ?"
My comment: Both cropping and resizing would have to take place. However, IMHO, it is unlikely that it happened. I'm still looking for an explanation what is a likely cause of desynchronization or lost of camera signature in 4 out of 6 images. At least, I see it as a sign of image manipulation, and a sign of possible cheating.

Co-Administrator: "I do have a question for the expert: Is it possible to comment upon the authenticity of the one hi-res photo we received from the Big Basin series? It can be found here."
My answer: The link to BB images is now broken. Well, I downloaded them few days ago. They are saved as png files 3000x2000 resolution. The Minolta Dimage X is 2 Mp camera with native resolution 1600 x 1200. The images are not originals from a camera. Elevenaugust is trying to obtain at least some of them
They are likely in 4:3 aspect ratio even if another digital camera was used. It is very hard for me to tell whether the images are authentic or not without having more images from the same camera piece, preferably the same resolution and not printed and scanned.

jtp wrote: "I can confirm the correlation between PICT0013.jpg and PICT00016.jpg. It looks like that there are faint scratches, specks of dust/dirt and thin vertical stripes which are exactly the same in both images."
My comment: You are correct. Blue sky means almost no content, easier to actually see the camera noise. Vertical stripes are more or less common to all digital cameras they are usually much weaker. They tend to be corelated in pictures from the same camera model. After I removed them from the noise of Capital pictures PICT0013.jpg and PICT0016.jpg we still obtain 5.06% correlation between them. This means that the two pictures were taken by the same camera, if not sophisticately engineered. I cannot tell what has been done to other 4 pictures so that their noise components are uncorrelated. More images (any kind) from the same camera would help to tell more about the remaining 4 pictures.

saladfingers wrote: "The grain similarities are quite hidden, but not lost because of the different image content." .... "The grain is finer, but the repeat is there." ... "Ok, so what is causing this. One solution to this, is that they are all CG images..."
My comment: The phenomenon is natural for digital cameras. The grain is caused by (filtered) imperferctions of CCD sensors. To prove it for you in case of Minolta Dimage X, I downloaded sample pictures from http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/minoltadimagex_samples1/ in 1200 by 1600 resolution. The 2nd and 5th picture in the gallery have 2.35% correlation, the 3rd and 4th picture in the gallery have 2.20% correlation. It is not as much as the two Capitola image because it is harder to obtain as good estimate of noise component because of less uniform content. Above 2% is still statistically very significant, I have no doubt about the same camera origin. To be complete, the 2nd and 4th pictures must be rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise to compensate for clockwise camera rotation to obtain 2.25% and 2.42%. correlation with the 3rd picture. BTW, if I was taking the pictures, clockwise rotation would be needed for compensation smiley.

saladfingers wrote: "How does a digital camera even get that kind of grain (as seen in the Raj images)? Anyone have a camera like that? If so could you send me some images (pm me and I'll send you my email address). I'll then do the same test on it."
My comment: Please, read my comment above.

Another opinion: I may be able to do more analysis if more original pictures are available to us. Without having them, most of the discussion is wasting our time.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by starsigndavid on Sep 3rd, 2007, 10:25pm

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 3:18pm, GForce wrote:
WHAT IF ISSAC IS A WOMAN! Think about it before you laugh. We only assume Issac is a man yet no one has met him.


I agree. I mentioned umpteen postings ago that ISAAC may have included some identity-protecting disinformation in his revelations. He may be a woman; the dates of his work on the project may be altered; his fields of specialty and so on and so on----all to make it more difficult to narrow "his" identity down for the PTB.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by GForce on Sep 3rd, 2007, 10:48pm

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 10:25pm, starsigndavid wrote:
I agree. I mentioned umpteen postings ago that ISAAC may have included some identity-protecting disinformation in his revelations. He may be a woman; the dates of his work on the project may be altered; his fields of specialty and so on and so on----all to make it more difficult to narrow "his" identity down for the PTB.


I thought I had read on one of the threads someone touching on the subject. I've always had a problem believing Issac JUST walked out with the documents. That would take some mighty big grapefruits! If he were a man and more likely to be patted down.

I'm not saying Issac is female only that I believe a woman would face less scrutiny going through check points. To me it just makes more sense.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:07pm

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 7:07pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
To bring you up to speed on an event that is taking place over at OMF, read the following.


So this is basically saying that the photos are real because they have the same "scratches" that a digital camera would have and not CGI. ?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:08pm

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 6:54pm, drewlac wrote:
"Funny how Isaac + Caret = IsaacCaret or with 2 letters changed in the middle = Is a seC*ret a play on words or an anagram.. the letters "a.. c.. a.." would be changed to "s.. e... *.." nobody seems to have mentioned this or discussed this before."

Curious to hear what others here think about that.



It bears absolutely no weight in my opinion = false.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:09pm

i think we started getting fishy about isaac,s identity. back in the 3rd tread. he is no dummy. he stated that he covered his self in case.quote by Isaac;i am not interested in making myself vulnerable to the consequences of betraying the trust of my superiors and will not divulge any personal information that could determine my identity. wink with that this keeps Isaac a man.quote i would estimate that with the information contained in this letter, i could be narrowed down to one of maybe 30 -50 people at best,so i feel reasonably secure. now it would have to be a female working in a group of men which i think a female would have been known by giving us this information. their would have had to be for more than lets say 3 females working on this project to easily detected. no way hes a female. just my two cents. wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by starsigndavid on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:35pm

Jugement and GForce are right on the money, in my opinion. There are so many ways to conceal or obfuscate one's identity. To take Isaac at his word on his dates of employ, gender, area of expertise, geographical area of work, civilian or military worker or ANYTHING, is to believe that he is stupid enough to wear a sign that says" "WHISTLE BLOWER--COME GET ME!!"

Put your self in his shoes. If it were you, how much up front truth would YOU reveal about your identity. And his truthfulness about the substance of his revelations bear no relation to his honesty on his identity. I would expect him to muddy the waters there.

I also recall someone posting that ISAAC might be more than one person, working in concert, to bring about these disclosures. VERY interesting speculation.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:44pm

something else that eliminates Isaac being a female. quote; a rocket engineer doesn't usually rub elbows much with a computer scientist, but inside pack, we all equally mystified and were ready to entertain any and all ideas. so here Isaac got a hold of some of the documents from his peers that was in a different field than he was. that confused DOD if they got on any ones tail after giving us this information by 200 intelligent scientist mengeling together sharing information out of his field all one would have to say is i know only this or that and never had access to this information. smart Isaac covered his tracks well like he said. wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:47pm

thank you starsigndavid; shalom lac. grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by starsigndavid on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:54pm

I have heard of disgruntled employees, but never a gruntled employee. Just an observation!! wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Sep 4th, 2007, 05:05am

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:08pm, castles4me wrote:
It bears absolutely no weight in my opinion = false.


Sorry I have to disagree with you here, I believe its an anagram and a very good one too.

Isaac choose his name, but why choose Isaac?:
"You can call me Isaac, an alias I've chosen as a simple measure of protection while I release what would be called tremendously sensitive information even by todays standards....(aside from my alias, which I freely admit is not my real name)"

The goal of serious or skilled anagrammists is to produce anagrams which, in some way, reflect or comment on the subject.

This shows how clever Isaac truly is, essentially reiterating his identity is a secret by the selection of his alias and the use of an anagram. Isaac I applaud you, well done!

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Nodnunk on Sep 4th, 2007, 07:29am

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:07pm, castles4me wrote:
So this is basically saying that the photos are real because they have the same "scratches" that a digital camera would have and not CGI. ?


It says to me that the artifacts found in the six Capitola images don't fit what is thought to be known about their origin.

Here is a link to a list of known CCD artifacts.

http://astronomy.nmsu.edu/cwc/Software/CCD-calib.html


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 4th, 2007, 08:37am

on Sep 4th, 2007, 05:05am, drewlac wrote:
Sorry I have to disagree with you here, I believe its an anagram and a very good one too.

Isaac choose his name, but why choose Isaac?:
"You can call me Isaac, an alias I've chosen as a simple measure of protection while I release what would be called tremendously sensitive information even by todays standards....(aside from my alias, which I freely admit is not my real name)"

The goal of serious or skilled anagrammists is to produce anagrams which, in some way, reflect or comment on the subject.

This shows how clever Isaac truly is, essentially reiterating his identity is a secret by the selection of his alias and the use of an anagram. Isaac I applaud you, well done!


How is it an anagram if you have to change three letters? One could find words from basically ANY word.

take the word basically -- ooooh that could mean socially -- all we do is change the b and the a to s and o... lol
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 4th, 2007, 09:03am

I had an interesting dream this morning before I awoke. I was driving in my car in northern California down a busy street. There was a man in my car -- that I didn't know (not sure why lol -- but it was OK that he was there)

At the time I was wondering how we were going to get out of the car because I didn't have the keys and the doors were locked... (but we were inside so that didn't make sense) I thought about it and remembered, that I could roll down the window and someone could unlock the door like that.

I was thinking about this while at a stop light. I looked over to the right and there was a black chinook helicopter followed by two more regular helicopters, an army green and a black one.

I thought... definitely military -- and just then a drone appeared maybe about 10-15 feet above my car and was moving over my car towards the back of my car. I dug through my purse really quick for my cell phone and rolled down the window on the passenger side, and stuck my camera phone out backwards and up towards the drone and took two pictures. The first one came out, but the second one didn't because it had already moved out of view. (the drone looked almost like the drone you all call the '"sprinkler drone" it had a ring on it's tail.)

The light turned green and we kept driving -- we were going to the beach. When we got to the beach there were large grassy areas and some trees, and we parked. I looked toward where we had come from to see if I could see the drone, thinking that I should have turned around and followed it to try and get more pictures. I could see the drone in the distance on the horizon. At that moment, 6 more black hellicopters flew towards the beach and landed and about 50 military police dressed in black started searching around everywhere. They had two lines formed at oposite ends of the grassy area, and they were holding those see-through plexiglass shields and the two search lines seemed as if they were trying to scare something up out of the tall grass -- each line moving towards each other. Other military police were searching the area between the grass and the beach... up in trees, and all over. They said they were looking for a "panther" but I felt that they were looking for an alien, because that was the direction that the drone had come from, so maybe it dropped someone off there.

The unknown man and I were walking toward the beach while they were searching around. I felt too nervous having all of these military police surrounding me, so I wanted to leave.... and was wondering how I was going to get in my car if the doors were locked and I didn't have the key.

But, I got in my car and started to back out in a nervous confusion, and I backed into some old lady's sports car that was parked behind me.

lol weird dream huh.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by GForce on Sep 4th, 2007, 09:07am

on Sep 4th, 2007, 08:37am, castles4me wrote:
How is it an anagram if you have to change three letters? One could find words from basically ANY word.

take the word basically -- ooooh that could mean socially -- all we do is change the b and the a to s and o... lol


If I'm not mistaken an anagram is a word or words derived from a given word without changing letters. Take CARET for example. You can get just to name a few. Trace, Care, Tar, Car, Ear, Tea, Tear etc. What Drew seems to be thinking about is a Cryptogram. Although in cryptograms all the letters are changed.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by GForce on Sep 4th, 2007, 09:21am

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 11:35pm, starsigndavid wrote:
And his truthfulness about the substance of his revelations bear no relation to his honesty on his identity. I would expect him to muddy the waters there.

I also recall someone posting that ISAAC might be more than one person, working in concert, to bring about these disclosures. VERY interesting speculation.


Issac has had years to think about how he would release the documents. I'm sure EVERY detail to protect himself was carefully thought out. And since this is pure speculation I would agree with SSD what if Issac was working in tandem with someone else.

What if... Issac is/was the wife of the document thief. Maybe her husband passed away but not before filling her in on every aspect of the documents. If it was her husband who took the documents and he is no longer around she would be safe from the federal bloodhounds. Again this is pure conjecture!

This is like playing CLUE or writing a Soap Opera. laugh
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 4th, 2007, 09:31am

on Sep 4th, 2007, 09:21am, GForce wrote:
Issac has had years to think about how he would release the documents. I'm sure EVERY detail to protect himself was carefully thought out. And since this is pure speculation I would agree with SSD what if Issac was working in tandem with someone else.

What if... Issac is/was the wife of the document thief. Maybe her husband passed away but not before filling her in on every aspect of the documents. If it was her husband who took the documents and he is no longer around she would be safe from the federal bloodhounds. Again this is pure conjecture!

This is like playing CLUE or writing a Soap Opera. laugh
yes gforce; this fits better.like you said isaac is not going to befound so easily this guy to us and even with LMH,is like ET.so what ever you guys come up with will be good. wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 4th, 2007, 09:46am

on Sep 4th, 2007, 09:21am, GForce wrote:
This is like playing CLUE or writing a Soap Opera. laugh


It was Colonel Mustard in the Conservatory with the Candlestick!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 4th, 2007, 10:08am

on Sep 4th, 2007, 09:03am, castles4me wrote:
I had an interesting dream this morning before I awoke. I was driving in my car in northern California down a busy street. There was a man in my car -- that I didn't know (not sure why lol -- but it was OK that he was there)

Your car is your body, it is a vehicle. There is a man with you but it's ok that he be there.
Quote:
At the time I was wondering how we were going to get out of the car because I didn't have the keys and the doors were locked... (but we were inside so that didn't make sense) I thought about it and remembered, that I could roll down the window and someone could unlock the door like that.

The doors are not open yet and you are not one to open them because you can't figure out how to do it yet. Someone (and you already know who that someone is) has left a window open for you, which unlocks the door.
Quote:
I was thinking about this while at a stop light. I looked over to the right and there was a black chinook helicopter followed by two more regular helicopters, an army green and a black one. I thought... definitely military -- and just then a drone appeared maybe about 10-15 feet above my car and was moving over my car towards the back of my car. I dug through my purse really quick for my cell phone and rolled down the window on the passenger side, and stuck my camera phone out backwards and up towards the drone and took two pictures. The first one came out, but the second one didn't because it had already moved out of view. (the drone looked almost like the drone you all call the '"sprinkler drone" it had a ring on it's tail.)

Too much here. They may be telling you that military is on top of it. Latitude's scenario. A possibility certainly, which is probably why we haven't seen any more drones. The "sprinkler drone" is synonymous with the word "anonymous drone" since it was "anonymous" who reported that drone. I'm stuck on this one though.
Quote:
The light turned green and we kept driving -- we were going to the beach.

You were still good to go and the man is still using you as a vehicle.
Quote:
When we got to the beach there were large grassy areas and some trees, and we parked. I looked toward where we had come from to see if I could see the drone, thinking that I should have turned around and followed it to try and get more pictures.

A good depiction of Big Basin at the Bay.
Quote:
I could see the drone in the distance on the horizon.

The distance is in the future, which could mean you'll see more drones.
Quote:
At that moment, 6 more black hellicopters flew towards the beach and landed and about 50 military police dressed in black started searching around everywhere.

However, for the moment, the military is on top of them too, which may put a crimp in seeing them.
Quote:
They had two lines formed at opposite ends of the grassy area, and they were holding those see-through Plexiglas shields and the two search lines seemed as if they were trying to scare something up out of the tall grass -- each line moving towards each other.

As it is, possibly they are sweeping the Big Basin area looking for drones. What you write sounds like a National Guard routine (similar to police in riot gear).
Quote:
Other military police were searching the area between the grass and the beach... up in trees, and all over. They said they were looking for a "panther" but I felt that they were looking for an alien, because that was the direction that the drone had come from, so maybe it dropped someone off there.

Panther and alien could very well be one of the same. Go here below. It's not a black panther, it's a black leopard.
The Leopard (Panthera pardus)
http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=leopard&ver=asv
Quote:
Wikipedia quote:
Originally, it was thought that a leopard was a hybrid between a lion and a panther, and the leopard's common name derives from this belief; leo is the Greek and Latin word for lion (Greek leon, λέωνwink and pard is an old term meaning panther. In fact, a "panther" can be any of several species of large felid.

Quote:
The unknown man and I were walking toward the beach while they were searching around. I felt too nervous having all of these military police surrounding me, so I wanted to leave.... and was wondering how I was going to get in my car if the doors were locked and I didn't have the key.

There is a clue but it's too deep.
Quote:
But, I got in my car and started to back out in a nervous confusion, and I backed into some old lady's sports car that was parked behind me.

Old ladies don't drive sports cars (typically). A long shot here but does The Little Old Lady From Pasadena mean anything to you? Pasadena by the way is a thick forested area. Not typical Southern California. Plenty of housing certainly but foothills and mountains are found there more then anything. You can see Mount Wilson just up the hill from Pasadena, which is where most all of the Southern California radio programs broadcast from. It is located in the San Gabriel Mountains and 22 miles from Pasadena but not really. You have to drive switchbacks to get to it, which makes the drive long because like I said it's straight up the hill but the road doesn't go straight up. Also, Mt. Wilson Observatory is there. Quite famous actually. Who knows - that was just a long shot by the way.
Quote:
lol weird dream huh.

I'll trade you yours for mine any day. The last one I had (which was from three last night) was where they were showing me how the spirit travels in the atmosphere above the ground and at ground level. They were showing me a jellyfish and how it manuvers itself through the water. They said the depiction is that of the spirit traveling with the assistance of earth's magnetic
field as well as good ole H2O. That was a very weird dream but one of the more vivid ones I've ever had.

We should have put this dream one in your Visions thread. Want to move it? Up to you.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 4th, 2007, 10:20am



Castles4me, I forgot to tell you that the ones with me helped me write that and gave me most of the thoughts. Not all though.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 4th, 2007, 11:02am

on Sep 4th, 2007, 10:08am, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Old ladies don't drive sports cars (typically). A long shot here but does The Little Old Lady From Pasadena mean anything to you? Pasadena by the way is a thick forested area. Not typical Southern California. Plenty of housing certainly but foothills and mountains are found there more then anything. You can see Mount Wilson just up the hill from Pasadena, which is where most all of the Southern California radio programs broadcast from. It is located in the San Gabriel Mountains and 22 miles from Pasadena but not really. You have to drive switchbacks to get to it, which makes the drive long because like I said it's straight up the hill but the road doesn't go straight up. Also, Mt. Wilson Observatory is there. Quite famous actually. Who knows - that was just a long shot by the way.

We should have put this dream one in your Visions thread. Want to move it? Up to you.


Wow ATO -- that really makes the dream make more sense! I will have to look up the panther thing! And, in the dream I was in Northern California, not southern.... -- You can move it to the vision thread if you want smiley with your response.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 4th, 2007, 11:19am

on Sep 3rd, 2007, 3:56pm, DrDil wrote:
Raj’s first post, which was an introductory one which was posted on May 31, 2007, 2:26am, his next post appeared at 10:22pm again on the same day, May 31, 2007.

In between these two posts there were a total of 232 posts, only 15 of which contained questions for RAJ.

These 15 were:

1. Post by TheShadow on May 31, 2007, 2:30am
2. Post by Dragonfire on May 31, 2007, 2:34am
3. Post by spf33 on May 31, 2007, 2:36am
4. Post by colorsymphony on May 31, 2007, 2:54am
5. Post by organelle on May 31, 2007, 3:10am
6. Post by davriver209 on May 31, 2007, 3:11am
7. Post by MidusTouch on May 31, 2007, 3:35am
8. Post by filtor on May 31, 2007, 3:42am
9. Post by spf33 on May 31, 2007, 3:49am
10. Post by spf33 on May 31, 2007, 4:01am
11. Post by calikid on May 31, 2007, 4:14am
12. Post by MidusTouch on May 31, 2007, 3:35am
13. Post by filtor on May 31, 2007, 3:42am
14. Post by spf33 on May 31, 2007, 3:49am
15. Post by whoopeddog on May 31, 2007, 7:35pm

When Raj replied he specifically answered 13 questions. So obviously my next question is which poster were you and what questions did you ask that Raj answered, “One by one?”


Please don't take offense. But if you go back and search the posts from the previous day you will see there were many more. BTW, Rajman's first post was Reply #1115 on May 30, 2007, 6:26pm.

You are correct that my recollection can be hazy. Thanks for bringing your perspective to the history. I think it is very important for that history to be documented... even what transpired in the forums.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 4th, 2007, 11:35am

on Sep 4th, 2007, 11:02am, castles4me wrote:
Wow ATO -- that really makes the dream make more sense! I will have to look up the panther thing! And, in the dream I was in Northern California, not southern.... -- You can move it to the vision thread if you want smiley with your response.


The lady in the sports car could mean anything and it doesn't have to do with No. Calif.

You have to move your post, I can't or it will have my name on it. After that, I move mine. They can stay here to but it should be in the Visions thread also.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 4th, 2007, 12:09pm

on Sep 4th, 2007, 09:21am, GForce wrote:
Issac has had years to think about how he would release the documents. I'm sure EVERY detail to protect himself was carefully thought out. And since this is pure speculation I would agree with SSD what if Issac was working in tandem with someone else.

What if... Issac is/was the wife of the document thief. Maybe her husband passed away but not before filling her in on every aspect of the documents. If it was her husband who took the documents and he is no longer around she would be safe from the federal bloodhounds. Again this is pure conjecture!

This is like playing CLUE or writing a Soap Opera. laugh


I think that highly unlikely. I sight the follow up emails to LMH in his responses to the skeptics as proof. They do not sound like that from a wife.

I hope he did have a backup plan though. Gordon Novel says he has cdroms ready to be mailed if something were to happen to him.

I guess Isaac is really wondering what the government will let him disclose. That is the only reason why he would come forward with only a portion of what he knows and has. So any further disclosures would likely be approved by the PTB. If no more come out then we can safely assume the PTB want to continue the cover up.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by isawaufooverparis on Sep 4th, 2007, 1:27pm

on Sep 4th, 2007, 10:20am, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Castles4me, I forgot to tell you that the ones with me helped me write that and gave me most of the thoughts. Not all though.

Quote:
There is a clue but it's too deep.

A clue about the drones? It's a pity we won't know more! undecided
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by elevenaugust on Sep 4th, 2007, 1:28pm

Hi all!

I have sent some other questions to the expert:

Quote:
Thank you for your intervention on the forum!
Your very relevant remarks were very appreciated by the whole of the participants and the team of the administrators and the mods.
Your analyses and your remarks are undeniable and have much value for all those which work since months on this business.

One of the participants of the forum .which works on the photographs, Saladfingers, which you already noticed on the forum think it could be CG.
You showed that the grain is caused by (filtered) imperfections of CCD sensors for the Capitola's photos.
But what about these pictures?
http://www.fortunecity.com/banners/interstitial.html?http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-photo-1-fullsize.jpg
http://www.fortunecity.com/banners/interstitial.html?http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-photo-2-fullsize.jpg
http://www.fortunecity.com/banners/interstitial.html?http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-photo-3-fullsize.jpg
http://www.fortunecity.com/banners/interstitial.html?http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-photo-4-fullsize.jpg
Saladfingers shows that there are similitaries in the grain on the various images, as in that of Capitola. You can find his comparison in the first page of the thread where you intervened yesterday
in reply #14 (Object A1).

These images were sent by a person called “Isaac” who affirms to have worked in Palo Alto in a research Laboratory, in the Eighties, on a research program concerning the use of an extraterrestrial technology in the development of an innovative system of propulsion functioning with antigravity.
He produced many documents on which have finds elements very similar to the photographs of Capitola and Big Basin.

You can find complete text and pics here:
http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/

That seems extraordinary, but we try, here also, to find coherent answers and to know if these documents could be made in the Eighties, as Isaac claims it.

My question, finally, is: According to your experience, can you give us your advice on these pics? Are they true photographs or data-processing graphic designs?

Cheers!


and

Quote:
Is it possible that some of these images were taken with a camera of the Eighties?
And more particularly, could it reproduce this similar granulous effect of an image on the other, like sensor-camera CCD's did?
Did there exist at the time an enough powerful camera to produce photographs of this quality?

And the most important question: how could we differentiate unambiguous a photographic image from a creation cgi?

Cheers!


We just have to wait for the answer now.

If you have technology matters on the photographs of Raj, Chad, Ty or Isaac, do not hesitate, I would transmit.

Cheers

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by elevenaugust on Sep 4th, 2007, 2:17pm

Well, the answers:

Quote:
Thank you for your intervention on the forum!
Your very relevant remarks were very appreciated by the whole of the participants and the team of the administrators and the mods.
Your analyses and your remarks are undeniable and have much value for all those which work since months on this business.

One of the participants of the forum .which works on the photographs, Saladfingers, which you already noticed on the forum think it could be CG.
You showed that the grain is caused by (filtered) imperferctions of CCD sensors for the Capitola's photos.
But what about these pictures?
http://www.fortunecity.com/banners/interstitial.html?http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-photo-1-fullsize.jpg
http://www.fortunecity.com/banners/interstitial.html?http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-photo-2-fullsize.jpg
http://www.fortunecity.com/banners/interstitial.html?http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-photo-3-fullsize.jpg
http://www.fortunecity.com/banners/interstitial.html?http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-photo-4-fullsize.jpg
Saladfingers shows that there are similitaries in the grain on the various images, as in that of Capitola. You can find his comparison in the first page of the thread where you intervened yesterday
in reply #14 (Object A1).

These images were sent by a person called “Isaac” who affirms to have worked in Palo Alto in a research Laboratory, in the Eighties, on a research program concerning the use of an extraterrestrial technology in the development of an innovative system of propulsion functioning with antigravity.
It produced many documents on which have finds elements very similar to the photographs of Capitola and Big Basin.

You can find complete text and pics here:
http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/

That seems extraordinary, but we try, here also, to find coherent answers and to know if these documents could be made in the Eighties, as Isaac claims it.

My question, finally, is: According to your experience, can you give us your advice on these pics? Are they true photographs or data-processing graphic designs?

Cheers!

"Hi Tonio,
Deciding whether images are CG or real is not an easy task. Few researchers used machine learning techniques like support vector machines (SVM) for this. It is time consuming process. I haven't done any work on this problem. So, I can only say my personal opinion.

I read most of Isaac's story at http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/ . It is a nice story, worth reading. Now I am convinced he is a sci-fi writer. Otherwise, especially if he was a scientist, he would not construct such an elaborated (although very nice) story based on no facts. His paragraph on the extra-terrestrial language is not as good as the rest. Who knows some basics of classical Shannon Information Theory he/she sees immediately that the whole concept of such language - "The ability for a single, small symbol to contain, not just represent, tremendous amounts of data" - is not only counter-intuitive but it is in contradiction with the Information Theory.
I bet that the sizes of the four images are genuine outcomes of 300 dpi scanning of 4"x6" pictures. Do you think that such small size photos could be used for any serious research in engineering? Obviously not. OK, the photographs could have been larger, say 8"x12". If this was the case then scanning was 150dpi which is not "high resolution" but in contrary it is the lowest you can get from a scanner at your home. The pictures look like computer generated (CG) to me but they could be a very good drawings by a talented painter as well. The shading on the two parts doesn't look real. If they were real they would have to be quite small and the camera quite close to them since only the front portion is in focus. Maybe 8 inches long. Can you do tests on similar objects with your camera? Try no zoom, zooming would give sharper images.

With regards,"

Quote:
Just a little precision about my previous mail:

Did the photographs are supposed to be taken in the Eighties, exist at the time a camera able to make similar photographs?
And able also to produce effects of similar grains like noticed it Saladfingers?

And, finally, a very important question:
How would it be possible to distinguish a real photograph from a creation cgi?

Cheers

Tonio

"Tonio,
This is a good question. I don't know any plausible explanation for the similarities in grains noticed by Saladfingers if a film camera took the pictures. IMHO, suggested dust specs on camera lens cannot be the cause. The dust would show up on the photographs enlarged, likely much bigger and not as the same random texture as we witnessed. Rather we would find only few spots on the photos that coincide.

The quality of pictures is worse than what I expect scientists in eighties worked with. It is better to zoom in to avoid such blurr. On the other hand, artists like to see the distant portion out of focus because it makes a better illusion of 3-D.
BTW, it took quite a while till digital cameras were able to catch up with traditional film cameras in terms of resolution and color reproduction."


I make a point of once again thanking noise1analyst for his answers.
IMHO, as long as we will miss elements to continue to work, it will be difficult to know some more.
I thus think that, consequently of this lack of additional elements, we all are (even noise1analyst.) brought to one moment or to another, of giving personal opinions.
I also think that when one is a scientific researcher, accustomed to work in a methodical way with known materials, tested, it is difficult to make experiments and to make conclusions on photographs or images as those which we have.

My work will be now to try to obtain more reliable data so that noise1analyst can continue its work.

Cheers

PS: Any others questions for him are always available!!


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 4th, 2007, 2:45pm

At least this guy is presenting rational answers and not just a "Its CGI you idiot" kind of approach lol

But, still... it is only HIS opinion, one of which we all have smiley

My opinion is that the drones are still real, Isaac is still real, and you can look for grain in photos all day and that doesn't prove beyond a doubt that the images are fake.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 4th, 2007, 3:25pm

on Sep 4th, 2007, 2:45pm, castles4me wrote:
At least this guy is presenting rational answers and not just a "Its CGI you idiot" kind of approach lol

But, still... it is only HIS opinion, one of which we all have smiley

My opinion is that the drones are still real, Isaac is still real, and you can look for grain in photos all day and that doesn't prove beyond a doubt that the images are fake.


Actually his grain analysis is pointing to photos being authentic. It's when he begins to voice his opinions on the subject matter is where he goes astray. I think he should leave his opinions (that are not photo analysis oriented) out of the forums because that's not why he's here as an expert. That would be like calling a forensic crime analyst to give a report on blood stains and then he says "oh by the way, I think he did it". It's not relevant but could be damaging to a case.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 4th, 2007, 3:40pm

on Sep 4th, 2007, 1:27pm, isawaufooverparis wrote:

A clue about the drones? It's a pity we won't know more! undecided


Her dream can be of her own mind's design. It doesn't have to be the kind that are delivered. And, it can be both.

If it's of her own mind's design, my response to what I said was deep is probably on a personal nature so I don't find it necessary to do since it's none of my business. And besides, I don't know her personally so I wouldn't know.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by SETI on Sep 4th, 2007, 4:09pm

I read Isaac's story at http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com. Although I am not discounting the possibility a female was involved in writing the story, I believe the story is the product of more than one person from the military industrial complex. I doubt a single person would allow himself/herself to be identified by piecing together the time, location, etc. After spending many years in secrecy, several people involved and/or close to people involved may have produced Isaac's story from middle management. Given the careful selection of words, Isaac's story may be a testing of the waters to see how much can be revealed at this time.

By re-arranging the letters of CARET, you get the word "TRACE". Perhaps, there is more to be revealed by Isaac. Or, perhaps, the military/government selected CARET, because it only allowed a "trace" of the information to be handled by people in Isaac's position.

Also, "Isaac" most likely stands for something that may give a clue regarding the story's writer(s). In the Bible, Isaac was the blind patriach whom Jacob attempted to deceive. Maybe "Isaac" was deceived/manipulated regarding Isaac's involvement in this project and is now trying to break the deception by the military/government after Isaac realized Issac had been deceived? Also, Isaac in the Bible was nearly sacrificed by his father when Isaac was younger. Maybe..."Isaac" was (also) nearly sacrificed by his/her/their superior(s) and is now retaliating??

Unfortunately, the mainstream media is not apparently giving attention to Isaac's story, so Isaac may be discouraged to come forward with more information, if any. Further silence may be the result of government/alien interference and/or Isaac's discouragement. undecided
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 4th, 2007, 6:41pm

Good News!

Here's an audio excerpt from last Friday's C2C when LMH stated she is still in touch with Isaac. At least we know he's still alive and not in Guantanamo making license plates.

http://tinyurl.com/2b6ofk



edit to add: and he's not patrolling the streets of Bagdad! wink



Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 4th, 2007, 7:16pm

on Sep 4th, 2007, 6:41pm, Latitude wrote:
Good News!

Here's an audio excerpt from last Friday's C2C when LMH stated she is still in touch with Isaac. At least we know he's still alive and not in Guantanamo making license plates.

http://tinyurl.com/2b6ofk



That's interesting. I still would like to know even the little bits and pieces of email she gets from him and is she sending the emails she receives from others to him?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Sep 4th, 2007, 7:19pm

on Sep 4th, 2007, 7:16pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
That's interesting. I still would like to know even the little bits and pieces of email she gets from him and is she sending the emails she receives from others to him?


I'm sure you'll be able to read all about it when she writes her book rolleyes
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 4th, 2007, 8:35pm

so long is getting professional advice asking her Isaac documents are not faked. Isaac knows we are wore now ,if new info is to come by way of Isaac ,i predict it very soon .no later than 1 month or less.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 5th, 2007, 05:11am

Isaac is not a lady ,a lady did the secretarial work. we have been getting bits and pieces of information about the caret documents from Isaac coworkers. this came to me about an hour ago eastern time . A few of the men that are still living that worked at caret with Isaac have been backing his story. they are the only that can back the caret documents besides the dod,as well that's what has kept LMH a believer of the authentics of the caret documents. dont be surprised if a DOD member is giving caret info also. thank you latitude for guiding me to this. it was just an idea from g force the possibility of Isaac being a woman. the only woman with inside info is LMh, the other info comes from females on this tread with a clear mind on this drone enigma wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by onthefence55 on Sep 5th, 2007, 06:46am

on Sep 5th, 2007, 05:11am, jugement wrote:
isaac is not a lady ,a lady did the secreterial work. we have been geting bits and pieces of information about the caret documents from Isaac coworkers. this came to me about an hour ago eastern time .

To be clear for everyone, can you clarify how this came to you ... in a dream?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 5th, 2007, 10:00am

Just to update everyone, I did receive a reply from George Knapp.....I post my reply to his reply...only editing personal info.

Thank-you to Latitude for the video, and DrDil for the pdf


I am thrilled that you replied! I really appreciate that.

There was a sighting in Lake Tahoe, with photos.

I was just looking to get the story some national attention....it is either the best hoax ever or real.

I thought this fact alone, might make it news worthy.

The photos are just one piece of this....the language primer I feel is the real meat of the story

Yes the story has been discussed on C2C, just looking to get more mainstream attention.

Do you know anyone who might be interested...newspaper ...etc?

Thanks again Mr. Knapp....You made my day!

Andy M*****





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: George Knapp [mailto:gknapp@*****.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 2:07 AM
To: Andrew M*****
Subject: RE: Drone/Isaac/Caret


I've followed it but not closely. It's one of those stories that's now going to be very hard to untangle, and once it starts to look like someone is manipulating the images and the info, I usually figure I've got better things to do.
It's not a story for me to pursue on TV since it does not have a Las Vegas angle that I can see. I'm strictly a local reporter and this is not a Las Vegas story. Correct me if I'm wrong.
It might be something worthy of discussion on C2C, but I have to believe such discussions have already taken place. If not, I'd be willing to consider it as a topic for one of my future shows. Send me anything you think is relevent, but please don't overwhelm me. I get a lot of email.

From: Andrew M***** [mailto:amurray@*****.com]
Sent: Mon 8/27/2007 7:08 AM
To: George Knapp
Subject: Drone/Isaac/Caret

Dear George

I wanted to contact you about the Drone/Isaac/Caret Ufo issue that has been burning up internet forums but has received no media attention.

Are you familiar with it?

Do you feel this case warrants further investigation?

Attached are a couple of links

http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=cali1 <http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=cali1>

http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=drone&action=display&num=1185540957 <http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=drone&action=display&num=1185540957>

I am just kind of shocked that this case has not received mainstream media attention

The documents released by "Isaac" seem to me to be genuine and the language primer could be the first real proof of et.

Any way, just curious about you thoughts

Thank-you

Andy M******

<<62q8io2.jpg>> <<rone_sightings_history.pdf>> <<rones.wmv>>

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 5th, 2007, 10:27am

Good job Murnut. George Knapp is a prime example of a journalist who is not afraid to stick his neck out for the truth. I have much respect for him.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 5th, 2007, 10:27am


I see his point though because he is a Las Vegas reporter. This all started for him based on Area 51 activity since the residents of LV worked at Area 51 so he had contacts. Plus he did the Bob Lazer story before anyone else. If I recall though, I think he involved himself with the Phoenix lights as well.

Lake Tahoe is 480 miles away from Las Vegas. His station wouldn't be covering the Tahoe area either unfortunately.

If anything, George would probably do it for his own personal reasons since he is a believer in UFOs but for the station, his stories are typically on a local story.

However, he did do a pretty big story that took place in Utah so you never know. The problem is the time it would take him to get up to speed and feel comfortable doing such. One call to C2C from him might help too since they would just turn him onto LMH. I'm sure he knows Linda.
.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by SETI on Sep 5th, 2007, 10:29am

on Sep 4th, 2007, 7:16pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
That's interesting. I still would like to know even the little bits and pieces of email she gets from him and is she sending the emails she receives from others to him?


It may be a teaser. She may be holding out on revealing additional information so she can later cash in with book deals, TV interviews, etc.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 5th, 2007, 10:31am

on Sep 5th, 2007, 10:29am, SETI wrote:
It may be a teaser. She may be holding out on revealing additional information so she can later cash in with book deals, TV interviews, etc.


We all thought that at some point but after listening to that C2C blip of LMH, she's not doing a book. She's waiting for him to release something else.

Did you listen to it?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 5th, 2007, 10:50am

on Sep 5th, 2007, 10:31am, Atrueoriginall wrote:
We all thought that at some point but after listening to that C2C blip of LMH, she's not doing a book. She's waiting for him to release something else.

Did you listen to it?


I think it would be a good thing for her to work more closely with us. She could post here with small tidbits of any and all her contacts with Isaac and the rest. I sent her an email yesterday about her C2C revelation and she emailed me back right away but she still seems evasive. I get the feeling she does not see the same urgency that we do or she is afraid of her info getting into competing hands. I think I'll send her a follow up.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by SETI on Sep 5th, 2007, 10:56am

on Sep 5th, 2007, 10:31am, Atrueoriginall wrote:
We all thought that at some point but after listening to that C2C blip of LMH, she's not doing a book. She's waiting for him to release something else.

Did you listen to it?


Yes. I sincerely hope more is released. The documents/info released so far are exciting, because they may actually be our first face to face review of government studies on alien/extradimensional technology. The documents appear to be far too extensive to be the product of a hoax.

My concern is she may be (or has already been ) offered $$. It is always a temptation to sell out. I hope this does not turn out to be some teaser.

I would love to read the professional e-mails she mentioned that apparently confirm Isaac's information regarding CARET. I wonder whether they might be secretely involved in drafting Isaac's information. Isaac may be the name of a group of professionals involved with CARET who decided to make their information public.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Sep 5th, 2007, 11:15am

Hopefully, Isaac is true to his word regarding not making money on future information releases. I would have to imagine/hope that if he were to release any info directly to LMH he'd forbid her to put it in a book.

"Lastly, there are so many people selling books, and DVDs, and doing lectures, and all that, that I would like to reiterate the fact that I am not here to sell anything. The material I'm sharing is free to distribute provided it's all kept intact and unmodified, and this letter is included. I tend to question the motives of anyone charging money for their information, and will assure you that I will never do such a thing. And in the future, just to cover all the bases, anyone claiming to be me who's selling a DVD or book is most certainly not going to be me."
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 5th, 2007, 12:07pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 10:56am, SETI wrote:
Yes. I sincerely hope more is released. The documents/info released so far are exciting, because they may actually be our first face to face review of government studies on alien/extradimensional technology. The documents appear to be far too extensive to be the product of a hoax.


I too hope more is released. I would like to see more about the "primer". I hope to see a break through like the moment in K-PAX, when the earth scientist discovered the planet in the constellation of Lyra, having the same exact orbit as prot described. I think that would do it for me. wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by SETI on Sep 5th, 2007, 12:24pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 12:07pm, Marvin wrote:
I too hope more is released. I would like to see more about the "primer".


I agree regarding release of additonal information, if available, regarding the primer. That may open the doors to possibilities we cannot presently imagine. It would be interesting whether the release of additional information shows interconnections to other avenues of government analysis of even more advanced alien/interdimensional technology. Being a possible tip of a huge iceberg, the drones may be a relatively primitive form of alien/interdimensional technology compared to what else the government may be exploring.

Perhaps, as part of some trade off, the government may have been "allowed" to explore the drone technology, which may be outdated by older civilizations' standards. It may be analogous to our 21st century society "giving" the blueprints for a relatively primitive watch to a less advanced cave society to create the perception of a "trade off" to serve our selfish purposes with minimal interference while maintaining our technological superiority.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 5th, 2007, 12:29pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 10:50am, Latitude wrote:
I think it would be a good thing for her to work more closely with us. She could post here with small tidbits of any and all her contacts with Isaac and the rest. I sent her an email yesterday about her C2C revelation and she emailed me back right away but she still seems evasive. I get the feeling she does not see the same urgency that we do or she is afraid of her info getting into competing hands. I think I'll send her a follow up.


That's sort of gimme. She is evasive. The next time you email her - send her the following pictures. Let her see what in the heck is going on that she is not really privy to and that continues today. I'm going to send you something via PM. You get it in an email to her.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by isawaufooverparis on Sep 5th, 2007, 12:45pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 11:15am, drewlac wrote:
Hopefully, Isaac is true to his word regarding not making money on future information releases. I would have to imagine/hope that if he were to release any info directly to LMH he'd forbid her to put it in a book.

"Lastly, there are so many people selling books, and DVDs, and doing lectures, and all that, that I would like to reiterate the fact that I am not here to sell anything. The material I'm sharing is free to distribute provided it's all kept intact and unmodified, and this letter is included. I tend to question the motives of anyone charging money for their information, and will assure you that I will never do such a thing. And in the future, just to cover all the bases, anyone claiming to be me who's selling a DVD or book is most certainly not going to be me."

Anyway, it is obvious at this point that nobody will make money out of this story: absolutely no media coverage and only interesting at the very best a few thousand people in the world... Maybe, Isaac knew it wouldn't be mediatized because of its reality and knew money couldn't be an option. I'm very intrigued by the motivations under this hoax/story. I really can't see the point unless something is gonna happen which we are unaware.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 5th, 2007, 12:46pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 06:46am, onthefence55 wrote:
To be clear for everyone, can you clarify how this came to you ... in a dream?
no not a dream. gforce came up with Isaac mite be a woman.castle4me asked that everyone go back and read the caret documents over. I could not sleep last night. i stared seeing weird looking aliens in my head. then bj booth name sounded then case book finaly latitude. then i got up out of the bed and logged on that's what i wrote. wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 5th, 2007, 3:02pm

I made a contact who submitted to a third party regarding the hi-res BB photo.

I dont know who these experts are or even if they are...but I trust my contact...of course they want to be anonymous....post the email below.

Just to be clear, it is not George Knapp

Thanks Andrew! I certainly wish you luck in getting the word out.

I thought I'd send the results of the analysis of that pic to you, and not bother OMF. Neither person wishes to be named, as they don't want a bunch of people tracking them down saying, "Well, what if..." I hope you understand.

First one says this quote below in conclusion(after ruling out CGI completely):


I say the model fake is possible because when I ran an edge finder routine on the pic to search for possible removed suspension lines the routine found NO edges whatsoever, even those which are clear in the picture. This leads me to suspect that the image may have been sneakily run through a "blur" type processor and then resampled as this is the only means I know of to remove all edge distinctions (there are none found at all even under grey scale or negative image). If such has been done it would handily erase any fine
suspension wires or threads.
Basically the second person says the same thing, except he lays it down at 65-35 chances of it being a photographed model because he feels a little more confident that for some reason the picture's been purposefully blurred.

Neither of them would step out on a limb and say "yes, it was manipulated", and, in fact, they both said that if it was it was probably professionally done, and quite well at that. One thing that might lend credence to that, is that apparently the file shows signs of cross-platform processing(Mac and PC), and, of course, many pros use Macs.

In the end, they both feel it's plausible that it's a model, but neither are certain at all.

I just wanted to give you all of that since you were kind enough to send it on to me

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 5th, 2007, 3:27pm

Repost -- since nobody answered me the first time.

"The technology itself isn't ours, or at least it wasn't in the 80's. Much like the technology in these crafts themselves, the device capable of remotely hijacking a vehicle's cloaking comes from a non-human source too. Why we were given this technology has never been clear to me, but it's responsible for a lot. Our having access to this kind of device, along with our occasionally haphazard experimentation on them, has lead to everything from cloaking malfunctions like this to full-blown crashes. I can assure you that most (and in my opinion all) incidents of UFO crashes or that kind of thing had more to do with our meddling with extremely powerful technology at an inopportune time than it did mechanical failure on their part. Trust me, those things don't fail unless something even more powerful than them makes them fail (intentionally or not). Think of it like a stray bullet. You can be hit by one at any time, without warning, and even the shooter didn't intent to hit you. I can assure you heads are rolling over this as well."

OK... in this it says "Why we were given this technology has never been clear to me" -- I think this is a very important statement.

Because, this proves that we have had contact with the aliens. Not just that we got one of their crashed drones and started making commercial apps from it....

The fact is that We were GIVEN the anti-cloaking technology, a very POWERFUL technology.

Why were we given it, and what did we give in exchange?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 5th, 2007, 3:33pm

Qouting Murnut:

It's great work, bringing in experts, good job! cheesy

IMHO, if LMH has the original photo's , this question is obsolete. I agree with ATO, we need these "TY" photos, in original. Then we'll know for sure.

As to why she's holding them back, are questionable, either money or forthcoming book.

It's safe to say, however, if you got your hand on gold, would you let it slip away?

SETI, do you have connections to the SETI Group? Just a humble question, since I find your posts evasively more intrigant and far literate than normal.

VonStern

http://www.seti.org/

http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/

http://www.rump.dk/homepage/andrew/SETI@home/ Danish


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 5th, 2007, 5:32pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 3:27pm, castles4me wrote:
Why we were given this technology has never been clear to me


He means given to them, as in the people he worked with, not aliens giving it to humans.

I simply believe that it was a drone that fell down and went boom, or clunk or whatever sound it made. grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 5th, 2007, 5:56pm

noise1analyst just stated the following in OMF so let's back up and slow down since most everything other then Isaac was digital. At this point, I think it's safe to dismiss the whole noise1analyst thing.

Quote:
I am not a digital camera expert (hardware), nor I am a photographic expert. I only have worked on developing a software that analyzes noise in images and match it with physical hardware (camera). So, please, if I say something not correct or inacurate, point it out, it's perfectly OK.



User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 5th, 2007, 6:13pm

If "Isaac" photo of the Artifacts laying on the Hangar floor is fakery, why is it still here? Why hasn't this been removed? If not by MoD, or other Intelligence?

The ansver: This is given by a "WhistleBlower" to water the grounds, and to wager upon how deep impact are given if released to general public. ??

Today allmost anything goes, and are not mentioned as our world are filled with technology. Cellphones able to show TV, Flatscreens able to show true 3d...would it be to far out to say, that if we were to present Alien Technology, the respose from the vast public would be: So what? Until, offcourse, it grasps everyone...THEN it will make differerence...

In my youth, the pure talking of ET would make one seem as rediculous, an item of herrassment?

Today, if it comes to true disclosure, at first it will remain unresponded, but when it is finally made a part of our world, it will only be terrifying to the older gererations. Ask anyone in the street, they probably will accept the use of tech originated from ET backengineering. All due to the technology thrown in our faces today.

It sure is the right time to "out" the secrets...

Yet again my astray thoughts, feel free to comment,

VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 5th, 2007, 6:21pm


MoD, wrong country. lol

As far as our people, maybe they have.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 5th, 2007, 6:26pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 6:21pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
MoD, wrong country. lol

As far as our people, maybe they have.


Depending on where you live, we have a Ministry of Defence in Denmark. LOL

VonStern

Edit: I guess I wasn't specific on this, sorry. I should have said DoD... grin grin grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 5th, 2007, 6:33pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 6:26pm, VonStern wrote:
Depending on where you live, we have a Ministry of Defence in Denmark. LOL

VonStern

Edit: I guess I wasn't specific on this, sorry. I should have said DoD... grin grin grin


There ya go. DoD. Then again, a lot of people like to think that everyone at the DoD is watching out for us when they have their own agendas - hey, they even have their own families that they go home to.

They may have an eye on Isaac. Like I said a long time ago, it wouldn't take them much time at all to figure out who he was unless he was lieing about his particular position. They don't throw employee records out - ever. Instead, they would have thrown the records on microfiche and that's where they sit today.
.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 5th, 2007, 6:50pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 3:02pm, murnut wrote:
I say the model fake is possible because when I ran an edge finder routine on the pic to search for possible removed suspension lines the routine found NO edges whatsoever, even those which are clear in the picture. This leads me to suspect that the image may have been sneakily run through a "blur" type processor and then resampled as this is the only means I know of to remove all edge distinctions (there are none found at all even under grey scale or negative image). If such has been done it would handily erase any fine
suspension wires or threads.
Basically the second person says the same thing, except he lays it down at 65-35 chances of it being a photographed model because he feels a little more confident that for some reason the picture's been purposefully blurred.

Neither of them would step out on a limb and say "yes, it was manipulated", and, in fact, they both said that if it was it was probably professionally done, and quite well at that. One thing that might lend credence to that, is that apparently the file shows signs of cross-platform processing(Mac and PC), and, of course, many pros use Macs.

In the end, they both feel it's plausible that it's a model, but neither are certain at all.

I just wanted to give you all of that since you were kind enough to send it on to me [/i]


I think LMH uses a Mac.

How can you get an honest opinion from somebody who refuses to believe in ET visitation? To them it's one of two things, CGI or models. So the guy can't find any sign of wires to hang a model. So what does he suspect? Some blur processing must have been done. Anything but ET, I guess. rolleyes

I'm beginning to think that taking these photos to any experts on CGI and models is the wrong thing to do. These people are so into their fields that they put way too much credence in them. Ask a cgi expert and he'll likely say "heck yes it is CGI". Ask a model expert and he'll tell you it's models. The cgi people like Saladfingers came out en mass over this thing. Most of them never believed in UFOs but showed up only to spread their CGI propaganda. To them anything can be done with cgi (even though they know the dirty truth that cgi has many limitations).

All these people have their own agendas. It's rare to find a true open mind person in these days of cynicism.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by isawaufooverparis on Sep 5th, 2007, 7:18pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 5:56pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
noise1analyst just stated the following in OMF so let's back up and slow down since most everything other then Isaac was digital. At this point, I think it's safe to dismiss the whole noise1analyst thing.

I don't agree with you on that one. I know what kind of software he's refering to and I think it makes his opinion very valuable. Even if he's not "a digital camera expert (hardware), nor a photographic expert", he certainly knows a lot about the very nature of a photography.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 5th, 2007, 7:25pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 6:50pm, Latitude wrote:
All these people have their own agendas. It's rare to find a true open mind person in these days of cynicism.


I think that these, “Days of cynicism” have always been upon us, it’s just that the believers haven’t always recognized or realised it.

I also think that this paradigm is simply the nature of the beast (or perhaps more literally the nature of the belief.)

Maybes it’s due to the almost global domination of the internet that this divide seems more prolific and also more instantly recognizable these days, although whenever there's a, “Do you believe?” poll, believers always come out on top.

Hopefully the only reason this isn’t more evident in everyday life is due to the cynics being more vocal. Unfortunately though, I think it’s more to do with the cynics currently having more power. Hopefully (and sooner rather than later) there will be a global and collective shift in awareness and thinking.

Perhaps then the truth-seekers and believers will have a more powerful and resonant voice with which to demand the long overdue answers.

Well, here’s hoping………..
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by onthefence55 on Sep 5th, 2007, 7:27pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 6:50pm, Latitude wrote:
I think LMH uses a Mac.

Yes she does, this comes from the message header in her last email to me:

X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2)
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 5th, 2007, 7:29pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 7:18pm, isawaufooverparis wrote:
I don't agree with you on that one. I know what kind of software he's refering to and I think it makes his opinion very valuable. Even if he's not "a digital camera expert (hardware), nor a photographic expert", he certainly knows a lot about the very nature of a photography.


He posted on OMF that his research was inconclusive. I think we can easily take that as a win in the real corner. Scrutinized yet again with no smoking gun uncovered. I'm glad he came back and qualified his remarks that his opinions on the drone story as a whole is only that... his opinion.

I look at it this way. There was no way in h3ll this guy was going to conclude the drones are real. His bias virtually eliminates that possibility. The best thing the believers could have hoped for is exactly what happened. Inconclusive. I for one am glad he admitted his bias. A less than sincere debunker would have lied and said he believes in UFOs. He's a good man and we should thank him for what he has done.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 5th, 2007, 7:30pm

Nowadays...photos cant be used as proof.....video cant be used as proof...leaked documents cant be used and neither can eyewitness testimony, not even retired ex military testimony.

There is nothing left, the PtB have us right where they us.

The only way disclosure will happen is when the 6 o'clock news tells the us/the masses it is happening.
Dont hold your breath

Or maybe a mass armada over our heads in every major city all over the world

All we can do is plug away in our own quest for the truth, to hell with everyone else.

Truth begins with one self

Sorry

Rant over
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 5th, 2007, 7:38pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 7:30pm, murnut wrote:
Nowadays...photos cant be used as proof.....video cant be used as proof...leaked documents cant be used and neither can eyewitness testimony, not even retired ex military testimony.

There is nothing left, the PtB have us right where they us.

The only way disclosure will happen is when the 6 o'clock news tells the us/the masses it is happening.
Dont hold your breath

Or maybe a mass armada over our heads in every major city all over the world

All we can do is plug away in our own quest for the truth, to hell with everyone else.

Truth begins with one self

Sorry

Rant over


Rant on, dude! I couldn't have said it any better. But I still would like to see disclosure day... if only to see some people soiling themselves. wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by isawaufooverparis on Sep 5th, 2007, 8:14pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 3:02pm, murnut wrote:
after ruling out CGI completely

Why does the expert rule out CGI? I would be interested to know.

Quote:
I say the model fake is possible

How strange! This kind of statement reminds me of Ottoth.

Quote:
may
would


Quote:
handily erase any fine suspension wires or threads.
Ottoth again?

Quote:
Basically the second person says the same thing, except he lays it down at 65-35 chances of it being a photographed model because he feels a little more confident that for some reason the picture's been purposefully blurred.
Very accurate figures from a person who doesn't sound confident.

Quote:
would
probably
might
apparently



Quote:
they both feel it's plausible that it's a model, but neither are certain at all.
Well! We finally came back from where we were! All these experts are very far from being self-confident, this is not very convincing.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by isawaufooverparis on Sep 5th, 2007, 8:35pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 7:29pm, Latitude wrote:
He posted on OMF that his research was inconclusive.

The experts need the original photos. Without them, asking for help his useless.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 5th, 2007, 9:23pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 7:18pm, isawaufooverparis wrote:
I don't agree with you on that one. I know what kind of software he's refering to and I think it makes his opinion very valuable. Even if he's not "a digital camera expert (hardware), nor a photographic expert", he certainly knows a lot about the very nature of a photography.


No, they took something and made it bigger then life but it wasn't.

If they're going to use an expert, then they need an expert and not someone who admittedly only works with the creation of noise software. He admitted that he was not a photography expert and he also admitted that he wasn't into CGI so what in the heck is he commenting for? they have Saladfingers for that.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 5th, 2007, 9:25pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 8:35pm, isawaufooverparis wrote:
The experts need the original photos. Without them, asking for help his useless.


Just by him admitting in the OMF forum that he was not a photograph expert and knew very little about CGI, I don't care if he had the originals in his hands, his comments hold no weight. No more then my comments would since I know squat about photography.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by starsigndavid on Sep 5th, 2007, 11:30pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 6:50pm, Latitude wrote:
How can you get an honest opinion from somebody who refuses to believe in ET visitation? To them it's one of two things, CGI or models. So the guy can't find any sign of wires to hang a model. So what does he suspect? Some blur processing must have been done. Anything but ET, I guess. rolleyes
.


If someone has an absolutely closed mind to even the POSSIBILITY of visitation, then their analysis can't help but be colored by that worldview. When you KNOW in your own belief system that there is no ET, then you will work the evidence so that it MUST reveal a fraud. ...and when clear evidence of fraud is missing, you ASSUME chicanery and trickery that your own analysis cannot find. Analyze with skepticism and high scientific standards, but NOT with a certain conviction that no matter what, there is no ET.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by elevenaugust on Sep 6th, 2007, 12:48am

on Sep 5th, 2007, 9:25pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Just by him admitting in the OMF forum that he was not a photograph expert and knew very little about CGI, I don't care if he had the originals in his hands, his comments hold no weight. No more then my comments would since I know squat about photography.


You did not see the comparative work which he made on the photographs of Capitola?
If he had the originals of Big Basin not improved by LMH, he could make the same thing and say, inter alia, if the camera used is the same one as that of Capitola, or not. IMHO, it's important to know.
And even if he is not “expert” photographs some, he knows some sufficiently to be able to discuss with everyone and to bring additional elements of reflexion.

Cheers
11


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 6th, 2007, 06:36am

There is really no semblance of order over there in OMF on those posts though.

1. They take on all subjects at the same time never organizing what it is they are doing.
2. They don't explain the process.
3. He doesn't have the originals to work with but yet comments anyway on inconsistencies.
4. Saladfingers is not helping matters.
5. All photos have been moved about from camera to computer and then to another computer, which finally arrive on the internet so there are 4 steps.
6. Tys are actual photographs that were scanned and we really don't know what LMH did to them outside of cropping, etc.
7. LMH's scanner is dirty.
8. Random questions is not the way. It causes the explanation to go off in too many directions without proper answer.

The list goes on. I think everything he is doing is a shot in the dark and a waste of his time because he does not have what he actually needs to work with. Consequently, comments about such cannot be taken with seriousness.

He probably knows the sound part quite well but what good is it if he doesn't have the originals and what good is it if he has modified originals that have traveled from scanners to two computers and then to the Internet?

For me to stand up and listen, he would have to start all over again on one topic at a time and from the beginning explain exactly what he can do for us and what he can't based on what the topic of conversation is be it Capitola, Isaac, Chad, Big Basin, etc. Too much confusion.

Do you realize that only those in photography have a clue as to what the conversations are all about and the rest are left in the dark.

And then there is my favorite where he makes a comment and then has to retract it because someone in CGI or photography shows him why something happens in the photo.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 6th, 2007, 06:41am

We need originals, plain and simple. LMH needs an expert in photography to LOOK at the Ty photos. They're originals. He had them delivered to her instead of sending them via an email. Has she done that? Has she had a real honest go God expert look at them. Who knows"?! This is the absolute very first thing she should have done - months ago.

That is where our problem sits. Bringing in people to look at what we've already got is like spitting in the wind.

Elevenaugust, please don't take this personal, it's only the fault of LMH and nobody else.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 6th, 2007, 08:21am

Update to my post of yesterday

My contact is in yellow and "his" expert comments in red

Well, this is why I'm not an image expert. My guess was wrong. Here's what I've gotten on the scan issue;

Nah, a high res scan wouldn't blur it. Nor would it remove all edge traces... that had to have been done deliberately at some point.




He seems pretty confident on that one, so I guess I'll stick with purposefully blurred at some point to hide something as my guess at this point.


Take it for what it is worth

Perhaps the expert is only offering his opinion since he feels it cant possibly be real to him/her

Before the expert knew it was a scan, he had this comment

The image shows none of the telltales of a pure cgi creation. The lighting is absolutely consistent with a real object photographed against a clear daytime sky with the sun behind the camera at roughly a 7:00 position (12:00 being the direction the camera is pointed). Since the pic is a crop from a larger image it's not possible to use the timestamp to compare with actual time of day for sun height angle.The details of surface textures do not break down under high magnification as with applied textures on a cgi object, but are what is seen in magnification on a real metallic object
such as a metal ship hull under natural light.CGI also seems out of the question from the standpoint of file fingerprints. The only graphic prog prints I could find in the file header were for Windows Photo Gallery 6.0 and Photoshop 3.0. The first is just the built in windows photo handler and the photoshop is a really old version not up to the level of work needed to fake such a pic. Creating a CGI at this level of excellence is the sort of thing ILM and Pixar spend hundreds of thousands to do with a full team of specialists and pay through the nose cutting edge software.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 6th, 2007, 08:52am

on Sep 6th, 2007, 08:21am, murnut wrote:
The image shows none of the telltales of a pure cgi creation. The lighting is absolutely consistent with a real object photographed against a clear daytime sky with the sun behind the camera at roughly a 7:00 position (12:00 being the direction the camera is pointed). Since the pic is a crop from a larger image it's not possible to use the timestamp to compare with actual time of day for sun height angle.The details of surface textures do not break down under high magnification as with applied textures on a cgi object, but are what is seen in magnification on a real metallic object
such as a metal ship hull under natural light.CGI also seems out of the question from the standpoint of file fingerprints. The only graphic prog prints I could find in the file header were for Windows Photo Gallery 6.0 and Photoshop 3.0. The first is just the built in windows photo handler and the photoshop is a really old version not up to the level of work needed to fake such a pic. Creating a CGI at this level of excellence is the sort of thing ILM and Pixar spend hundreds of thousands to do with a full team of specialists and pay through the nose cutting edge software.


which photo was he analyzing here?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 6th, 2007, 09:20am

BB hi-res scan...I am no photo expert...but I dont see how the scan can be analyzed anyway
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by elevenaugust on Sep 6th, 2007, 09:42am

on Sep 6th, 2007, 06:41am, Atrueoriginall wrote:
We need originals, plain and simple. LMH needs an expert in photography to LOOK at the Ty photos. They're originals. He had them delivered to her instead of sending them via an email. Has she done that? Has she had a real honest go God expert look at them. Who know!

That is where our problem sits. Bringing in people to look at what we've already got is like spitting in the wind.

Elevenaugust, please don't take this personal, it's only the fault of LMH and nobody else.


OK, agreed.
But I do not want to discourage myself and I would go until the end of my step.
If I utilize experts and specialists, it is also to show to LMH that other people as “amateurs” can be interested in the UFO.
If she does not answer at the requests of the professionals, then I am sorry to say that, but it is that she hiding place something.
And that will harm to her more than another thing....

I also think that Isaac will give further information other documents or other to us, because I cannot believe that he revealed all that and that he does not follow the evolution of its disclosure on the Net.
It is a point more important than you think it, and for several reasons....

Cheers

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 6th, 2007, 10:46am

on Sep 6th, 2007, 08:21am, murnut wrote:
Update to my post of yesterday

My contact is in yellow and "his" expert comments in red

Well, this is why I'm not an image expert. My guess was wrong. Here's what I've gotten on the scan issue;

Nah, a high res scan wouldn't blur it. Nor would it remove all edge traces... that had to have been done deliberately at some point.




He seems pretty confident on that one, so I guess I'll stick with purposefully blurred at some point to hide something as my guess at this point.


Take it for what it is worth

Perhaps the expert is only offering his opinion since he feels it cant possibly be real to him/her

Before the expert knew it was a scan, he had this comment

The image shows none of the telltales of a pure cgi creation. The lighting is absolutely consistent with a real object photographed against a clear daytime sky with the sun behind the camera at roughly a 7:00 position (12:00 being the direction the camera is pointed). Since the pic is a crop from a larger image it's not possible to use the timestamp to compare with actual time of day for sun height angle.The details of surface textures do not break down under high magnification as with applied textures on a cgi object, but are what is seen in magnification on a real metallic object
such as a metal ship hull under natural light.CGI also seems out of the question from the standpoint of file fingerprints. The only graphic prog prints I could find in the file header were for Windows Photo Gallery 6.0 and Photoshop 3.0. The first is just the built in windows photo handler and the photoshop is a really old version not up to the level of work needed to fake such a pic. Creating a CGI at this level of excellence is the sort of thing ILM and Pixar spend hundreds of thousands to do with a full team of specialists and pay through the nose cutting edge software.
havent this been done before on another tread? I think so,and we got the same results as this.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 6th, 2007, 4:14pm

on Sep 5th, 2007, 3:02pm, murnut wrote:
I made a contact who submitted to a third party regarding the hi-res BB photo.

I dont know who these experts are or even if they are...but I trust my contact...of course they want to be anonymous....post the email below.

Just to be clear, it is not George Knapp

Thanks Andrew! I certainly wish you luck in getting the word out.

I thought I'd send the results of the analysis of that pic to you, and not bother OMF. Neither person wishes to be named, as they don't want a bunch of people tracking them down saying, "Well, what if..." I hope you understand.

First one says this quote below in conclusion(after ruling out CGI completely):


I say the model fake is possible because when I ran an edge finder routine on the pic to search for possible removed suspension lines the routine found NO edges whatsoever, even those which are clear in the picture. This leads me to suspect that the image may have been sneakily run through a "blur" type processor and then resampled as this is the only means I know of to remove all edge distinctions (there are none found at all even under grey scale or negative image). If such has been done it would handily erase any fine
suspension wires or threads.
Basically the second person says the same thing, except he lays it down at 65-35 chances of it being a photographed model because he feels a little more confident that for some reason the picture's been purposefully blurred.

Neither of them would step out on a limb and say "yes, it was manipulated", and, in fact, they both said that if it was it was probably professionally done, and quite well at that. One thing that might lend credence to that, is that apparently the file shows signs of cross-platform processing(Mac and PC), and, of course, many pros use Macs.

In the end, they both feel it's plausible that it's a model, but neither are certain at all.

I just wanted to give you all of that since you were kind enough to send it on to me



on Sep 5th, 2007, 6:50pm, Latitude wrote:
How can you get an honest opinion from somebody who refuses to believe in ET visitation? To them it's one of two things, CGI or models. So the guy can't find any sign of wires to hang a model. So what does he suspect? Some blur processing must have been done. Anything but ET, I guess. rolleyes

I'm beginning to think that taking these photos to any experts on CGI and models is the wrong thing to do. These people are so into their fields that they put way too much credence in them. Ask a cgi expert and he'll likely say "heck yes it is CGI". Ask a model expert and he'll tell you it's models. The cgi people like Saladfingers came out en mass over this thing. Most of them never believed in UFOs but showed up only to spread their CGI propaganda. To them anything can be done with cgi (even though they know the dirty truth that cgi has many limitations).

All these people have their own agendas. It's rare to find a true open mind person in these days of cynicism.



I believe what the folks in murnut’s post was trying to say is that it is real easy to hang a model, then to remove the evidence (remove the wires), then blur the edges to look “natural.”

I played with this and I am CGI ignorant. But if I can do it with Paintbrush (remove something and blur it), then someone with Photoshop can do it better.

User Image

User Image

This is not proof conclusive it is fake, but it definitely does not "strike one up" in the real column either. At best, it places these photos into the unknown category until we can prove them one way or the other.
How big did Ty say the craft was?

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 6th, 2007, 4:48pm

on Sep 6th, 2007, 09:20am, murnut wrote:
BB hi-res scan...I am no photo expert...but I dont see how the scan can be analyzed anyway


You could verify that all lighting and shadows are correct as well as depth of field. You could check the detail for signs of cgi shortcuts and rendering artifacts.

Me, I really don't need to check those things. I already checked all those many times as far as I could. I am still amazed how skeptics can raise questions when I analyzed the shadows and detail of the Raj and Chad pics. Run the hi res ones through Neat Image and they get even better. For the Raj pics I used the noise profile made specifically for the Dimage X at the exact settings.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Sep 6th, 2007, 6:20pm

After the next Osama Bin Laden video comes out you CGI types need to put a drone in the background. That'll get their attention.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 6th, 2007, 8:19pm

on Sep 6th, 2007, 4:48pm, Latitude wrote:
You could verify that all lighting and shadows are correct as well as depth of field. You could check the detail for signs of cgi shortcuts and rendering artifacts.

Me, I really don't need to check those things. I already checked all those many times as far as I could. I am still amazed how skeptics can raise questions when I analyzed the shadows and detail of the Raj and Chad pics. Run the hi res ones through Neat Image and they get even better. For the Raj pics I used the noise profile made specifically for the Dimage X at the exact settings.


But don’t you wish you knew what it appears LMH knows?

I feel that it’s beyond the realms of possibility that LMH has received all of these, “Professional” emails claiming to further advance the credibility of the entire Isaac saga, and hasn’t once thought,

“Hmm I’m 100% sure I have the real deal here, in fact I could single-handedly force full disclosure!! I may as well have them authenticated so that they are beyond reproach by handing out a couple of the ACTUAL photographs to trusted friends and experts in the relevant fields.”

Even if this entailed supervising the images every step of the way, the ends surely justifies the means?

We all know LMH is a very shrewd operator; she had to have been to attain the loyal following, semi-celebrity status and media power that she wields today. Sure she’s had her ups and downs, her wins and losses, but that’s what happens when you conduct your investigations in, “Real time” and in the public eye. (This may also explain the hesitance to publish her findings so quickly this time around, whatever those findings may be.)

If anything this makes LMH more likely to verify any evidence personally, as she’s a tough cookie and should be very hard to fool (again), remember the (Southern I think) old adage immortalised by Bush’s less than perfect recital,

“Fool me twice, fool on me.”

Or perhaps she hasn’t been fooled at all. Perhaps we are the fools and the joke is on us!!

So do we not credit LMH with practising one of what surely must be a fundamental and the most basic of protocols, i.e. get everything independently verified!! (Then ideally get at least a second -and hopefully corroborating- opinion/hypothesis!!)

Can we really safely assume that LMH hasn’t had any of the Big Basin images checked out?


Who knows, this could be why they can’t be released to the baying crowd of forum members, CGI experts etc. because they are already doing the rounds with the relevant experts.

Personally I don’t think this is the case but I do think that LMH would have had an independent analysis done on at least ONE of the original images by now, even if just for her own piece of mind before she pushes forward with any more disclosures from Isaac.

So, if you’ll further indulge me in this thought process, then I feel it at least alludes to the possibility that LMH knows, “Something” she doesn’t as yet want to reveal. “Something” she may have known since she received the Big Basin images, but that, “Something” wouldn’t keep the subscribers happy so she humoured all involved and sent a particularly nasty email to Isaac knowing full well that he is no more a whistle blower than the Big Basin Drones are, “Huge” in size?

Or maybes she pre-warned Isaac then purposefully misled the PTB into thinking that her and Isaac aren't as close as they are, or that they aren't in contact?

Maybes I grossly underestimate LMH, maybes even as I type this she’s putting together irrefutable evidence and irrevocable proof that will conclusively determine the origins and credibility of the, “2007 Drone Flap,” one way or another.
But somehow I doubt it..............

Possibly part of the reason that she has still failed to release the images is that it will prove conclusively what her unannounced status is in the disclosure game, whether that be the, “Player” or the, “Played.”

"Don’t hate the player/s, hate the game?" grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 7th, 2007, 12:36am

on Sep 6th, 2007, 4:14pm, Marvin wrote:
I believe what the folks in murnut’s post was trying to say is that it is real easy to hang a model, then to remove the evidence (remove the wires), then blur the edges to look “natural.”

I played with this and I am CGI ignorant. But if I can do it with Paintbrush (remove something and blur it), then someone with Photoshop can do it better.


Sure. But it's not that easy. Not only do you have to hang the object from wires but you have to make it look large and make it fit the rest of the photo. That's the hard part. It's not easy to get the lighting and shadows just right. Then there's the depth of field issues. I get a kick out of looking at the Raj pictures and studying the shadows. There is no way a hoaxer could have got them so perfect.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 7th, 2007, 12:53am

I saw this ufo report on Nuforc.

Quote:
Occurred : 5/11/2007 20:35 (Entered as : 05/11/07 20:35)
Reported: 5/11/2007 9:07:56 PM 21:07
Posted: 6/12/2007
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Shape: Other
Duration:3 min
Slowly moving crescent shaped object seen for 3+ minutes then disappearing.

Myself and 3 other friends were standing outside our dorm room throwing a ball around and looked up to see an object "floating" through the sky. It was moving very slowly but not with the wind. It seemed to hover above an area about 1/2 a mile from us and then we lost sight of it in the evening sky. I know this sounds sorta hoaxy but it looked like a half moon shape with a elongated triangle protruding from the middle out between the arms; the best way I can describe it is to say it looked similar to the Klingon (spl?) ship style in the Star Trek movies I saw as a kid.

((NUFORC Note: Student report. PD))


Could (s)he be describing this?
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Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 7th, 2007, 02:34am

on Sep 6th, 2007, 8:19pm, DrDil wrote:
Personally I don’t think this is the case but I do think that LMH would have had an independent analysis done on at least ONE of the original images by now, even if just for her own piece of mind before she pushes forward with any more disclosures from Isaac.

LMH is known to discard independent analysis if it doesn't fit her goal, so it is a sure bet which way her 'independent analysis' would point. I've read somewhere recently that if you want to spread a hoax or something fishy, you write to LMH or C2C for they will publish anything. That reminds me, would someone please ask Mr. Doty about drones so we can discard this case if he confirms them for real? Though, he'll probably have some 'secret documents' with additional details... smiley

What I really mean is you can't have an independent analysis if LMH, C2C or such are anywhere in the loop. Not if it's their bread and butter.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 7th, 2007, 06:57am

on Sep 7th, 2007, 12:53am, Latitude wrote:
I saw this ufo report on Nuforc.


Here's the area he/she was speaking of. University of California, Santa Barbara below in trees. Westmont College down the road.

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Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 7th, 2007, 07:36am

on Sep 7th, 2007, 12:36am, Latitude wrote:
Sure. But it's not that easy. Not only do you have to hang the object from wires but you have to make it look large and make it fit the rest of the photo. That's the hard part.



Actually, in the Ty photos, it is not that hard. If the object is a model about 8 feet long (which is large and bulky), then it will be quite dramatic, it would fit between the foreground and background trees. It can be in a “fixed” position as long as it can “spin” and then you just have to move the camera around to get the photos you see. I believe you will find this solution can work. I am not ready to say this is the case, but I can not rule it out for the Ty photos either.

I think this is why the “experts” keep “foot hopping” with their answers. The question is, who is willing to connect the dots, when the evidence has been so badly contaminated. It has been copied, resized, scanned, cropped, copied (and who knows what all), basically manipulated until it is worthless as evidence of being a real extraterrestrial spacecraft.



on Sep 7th, 2007, 12:36am, Latitude wrote:
It's not easy to get the lighting and shadows just right. Then there's the depth of field issues. I get a kick out of looking at the Raj pictures and studying the shadows. There is no way a hoaxer could have got them so perfect.



The Raj drone appearance is different, the drone is not blurred. It is not as detailed as the Ty drone.

When it comes to anything CGI, I am not willing to bet any of my money. We need the original photos to really begin to know anything. Otherwise, it is pure speculation if it is fake or real. And it just does not help us to demonstrate to the world that it is real when the photo EXIF source states Photoshop.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by LangLee on Sep 7th, 2007, 07:39am

I have a professional photog going over the Rajman/Capitola pics.
He stood in silence for 5 minutes as he went over it in front of me, he stated that there is nothing in the photo that tells him the object wasn't there as photgraphed.
He took the copies I gave him and I expect to see him this afternoon.
Oh yeah, one of his first question was did I know where, on what street they were taken.
Has anyone found that out yet ?
His comment on the BB pics was that it looks too funky to be trusted fully, with the white background it's difficult to determine if any manipulation had taken place. He said if any pics tell the story it will be the Rajman pics.
I have to agree, but that's me.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 7th, 2007, 08:19am

on Sep 7th, 2007, 07:39am, LangLee wrote:
Even thought the linguistic primers are on the Rajman drone, the BB is as if not more important since it ties more closely to Isaac.

His comment on the BB pics was that it looks too funky to be trusted fully, with the white background it's difficult to determine if any manipulation had taken place. He said if any pics tell the story it will be the Rajman pics.
I have to agree, but that's me.


Tell him we all thought it was funky until we matched it up with Isaacs linguistics. It does look weird, no doubt. And also tell him that what looks like rust could be gold.

That California sky I am very familiar with. We did a large area here in the forum regarding the whiteness of the sky in particular. It's the kind of California smog you cannot see (opposed to smoke). Also make sure he understands that the Big Basin photo was taken directly next door to the Silicon Valley. In 1998, the population of the Silicon Valley was 2.3 million and of course that was 9 years ago so I'm sure it's much higher today. This way he will understand the air quality.

Here is another typical California white sky, which is actually the worst kind of pollution.
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Quote:
OnTheFence said:

The Ty images are very overexposed due to haze/smog and aiming the camera at the sky. I'm pretty sure that automatic exposure settings on the camera tried very hard to get a decent image while sacrificing dynamic range (white sky levels off at 255 max).

Also of importance was the note of LMH saying that someone "adjusted" the images for clarity. That's a shame, since it rendered these images only useful beauty and not scientific study.


Quote:
Atrueoriginal said:
What makes the sky white in California is smog, the worst kind - photochemcial smog or summer smog - usually the kind you can't see, which is the most dangerous. We had many days like that in Southern California each year.

The State of California just game me this tid bit -"photochemical smog is caused by the action of sunlight on a mixture of hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen. This smog contains secondary pollutants such as ozone, aldehydes and fine particles."

So essentially, it's not like smoke such as from factories - that's a different kind of smog we're use to that is harmful but not as harmful as the other. Smog from smoke is very noticeable as you stand on top of a foot hill or a mountain because you can see the layers. Also, sitting in your car, you can't see three stop lights ahead of you. It's not that kind. It's white.

Big Basin sits next to the Silicon Valley, which could easily be producing photochemical smog but then it would be blown inland eventually due to the off-shore breezes, which kept the Silicon Valley essentially pretty clean for California. The population of Silicon Valley is over 3 million people.

Fog is the first thing someone would assume but the trees are fairly visible so the fog would have been moving out. Just the same, remnants of fog mince with a photochemical smog and you'll have an extremely white sky. That's what makes it so much worse too for the Central California people because the fog is a carrier for photochemical smog.

You can see a photochemical smog in the following picture. Look at the foothill in the background. It's not green like it should be normally. And, it's not smokey brown either like a regular smog.


Quote:
Latitude said:
Right after the news broke about the Steven sighting, one of the first things I did was to check the weather report for that area. What they had that day is very typical for this coastal area. Fog/overcast lifting and burning off in the afternoon. That's your white sky. Remember that I live out here and have spent much time in the Santa Cruz and San Jose area.


Please make sure he knows these things because it was of course an issue in the photographs of Stephens and Tys both.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 7th, 2007, 09:30am



I found this very interesting. Keep your eye on the picture toward the end. They throw a Big Basin drone in.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=georgehaydukelives
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by elevenaugust on Sep 7th, 2007, 09:38am

on Sep 7th, 2007, 07:39am, LangLee wrote:
Oh yeah, one of his first question was did I know where, on what street they were taken.
Has anyone found that out yet ?


Not yet, but Capitola is a small town of less than 10000 people.
I live also a town of 10000 people in France and, even if that represents much work; I think (IMHO) that a checking on the spot could have been possible.
With precise reference marks on the photographs (electric poles), to find the place precise of the photographs had been a good challenge. Moreover, that would have enabled us to make measurements on the spot.
Unfortunately, I do not know anybody (Perhaps a person on OM) living in Capitola or neighbourhood which can (which wants!!) to make this kind of tiresome checking .....

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 7th, 2007, 10:04am

on Sep 7th, 2007, 07:36am, Marvin wrote:
When it comes to anything CGI, I am not willing to bet any of my money. We need the original photos to really begin to know anything. Otherwise, it is pure speculation if it is fake or real. And it just does not help us to demonstrate to the world that it is real when the photo EXIF source states Photoshop.


Marvin, it seems you might be letting the debunkers get to you. They keep chewing at the truth till you begin doubting yourself.

If you have PhotoShop it makes itself the default picture viewer. So when you connect your camera it automatically opens PS to view and save the pics. It then puts it's own tag in the exif. So just because the exif may have the PS tag does not mean something sneaky has been done.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 7th, 2007, 10:18am

on Sep 7th, 2007, 09:38am, elevenaugust wrote:
Not yet, but Capitola is a small town of less than 10000 people.
I live also a town of 10000 people in France and, even if that represents much work; I think (IMHO) that a checking on the spot could have been possible.
With precise reference marks on the photographs (electric poles), to find the place precise of the photographs had been a good challenge. Moreover, that would have enabled us to make measurements on the spot.
Unfortunately, I do not know anybody (Perhaps a person on OM) living in Capitola or neighbourhood which can (which wants!!) to make this kind of tiresome checking .....


I will check it out sometime in the future. I think I might even be able to locate Raj's inlaws (don't think I will but I know it could be done). I don't think it would be too hard.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 7th, 2007, 10:56am

on Sep 7th, 2007, 10:04am, Latitude wrote:
Marvin, it seems you might be letting the debunkers get to you. They keep chewing at the truth till you begin doubting yourself.

If you have PhotoShop it makes itself the default picture viewer. So when you connect your camera it automatically opens PS to view and save the pics. It then puts it's own tag in the exif. So just because the exif may have the PS tag does not mean something sneaky has been done.





Just as I try to be more open and trusting, I get these little reminders:

I was watching Ghost Hunters last night, they were visiting a Hotel in Arkansas where a con artist had pushed a fake cancer cure, and hundreds of people died.

Why would someone do such a thing (just for money)? You’ve got to know these people trusted this person with their life and then paid the ultimate price for giving that trust.

It is not the debunkers (I think you make it too simple), it is the world we live in. There is always someone who is looking to do something, for personal gain or personal pleasure.

Since this is the world we live in, my trust has to be earned.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 7th, 2007, 11:30am

on Sep 6th, 2007, 8:19pm, DrDil wrote:
But don’t you wish you knew what it appears LMH knows?

I feel that it’s beyond the realms of possibility that LMH has received all of these, “Professional” emails claiming to further advance the credibility of the entire Isaac saga, and hasn’t once thought,

“Hmm I’m 100% sure I have the real deal here, in fact I could single-handedly force full disclosure!! I may as well have them authenticated so that they are beyond reproach by handing out a couple of the ACTUAL photographs to trusted friends and experts in the relevant fields.”

Even if this entailed supervising the images every step of the way, the ends surely justifies the means?

We all know LMH is a very shrewd operator; she had to have been to attain the loyal following, semi-celebrity status and media power that she wields today. Sure she’s had her ups and downs, her wins and losses, but that’s what happens when you conduct your investigations in, “Real time” and in the public eye. (This may also explain the hesitance to publish her findings so quickly this time around, whatever those findings may be.)

If anything this makes LMH more likely to verify any evidence personally, as she’s a tough cookie and should be very hard to fool (again), remember the (Southern I think) old adage immortalised by Bush’s less than perfect recital,

“Fool me twice, fool on me.”

Or perhaps she hasn’t been fooled at all. Perhaps we are the fools and the joke is on us!!

So do we not credit LMH with practising one of what surely must be a fundamental and the most basic of protocols, i.e. get everything independently verified!! (Then ideally get at least a second -and hopefully corroborating- opinion/hypothesis!!)

Can we really safely assume that LMH hasn’t had any of the Big Basin images checked out?


Who knows, this could be why they can’t be released to the baying crowd of forum members, CGI experts etc. because they are already doing the rounds with the relevant experts.

Personally I don’t think this is the case but I do think that LMH would have had an independent analysis done on at least ONE of the original images by now, even if just for her own piece of mind before she pushes forward with any more disclosures from Isaac.

So, if you’ll further indulge me in this thought process, then I feel it at least alludes to the possibility that LMH knows, “Something” she doesn’t as yet want to reveal. “Something” she may have known since she received the Big Basin images, but that, “Something” wouldn’t keep the subscribers happy so she humoured all involved and sent a particularly nasty email to Isaac knowing full well that he is no more a whistle blower than the Big Basin Drones are, “Huge” in size?

Or maybes she pre-warned Isaac then purposefully misled the PTB into thinking that her and Isaac aren't as close as they are, or that they aren't in contact?

Maybes I grossly underestimate LMH, maybes even as I type this she’s putting together irrefutable evidence and irrevocable proof that will conclusively determine the origins and credibility of the, “2007 Drone Flap,” one way or another.
But somehow I doubt it..............

Possibly part of the reason that she has still failed to release the images is that it will prove conclusively what her unannounced status is in the disclosure game, whether that be the, “Player” or the, “Played.”

"Don’t hate the player/s, hate the game?" grin




This is a great post!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 7th, 2007, 12:25pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 07:39am, LangLee wrote:
I have a professional photog going over the Rajman/Capitola pics.
He stood in silence for 5 minutes as he went over it in front of me, he stated that there is nothing in the photo that tells him the object wasn't there as photgraphed.
He took the copies I gave him and I expect to see him this afternoon.
Oh yeah, one of his first question was did I know where, on what street they were taken.
Has anyone found that out yet ?
His comment on the BB pics was that it looks too funky to be trusted fully, with the white background it's difficult to determine if any manipulation had taken place. He said if any pics tell the story it will be the Rajman pics.
I have to agree, but that's me.


Good job, LangLee. Yes the Ty photos are not very good (look how spoiled we are now). Ato has already explain the white background. Steven's pics corroborate the white background. Ty may have used a cheap pocket Instamatic or disposable film camera. Then LMH scanned those 5x7s. So the Hi res is actually a blow up from a small low res picture. Steven's photos are of better quality but the drone is very distant. The Raj and Chad pics are the best for analysis. Did you give your expert the Hi res large size versions of the Raj/Chad?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 7th, 2007, 12:51pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 12:53am, Latitude wrote:
I saw this ufo report on Nuforc.



Could (s)he be describing this?
User Image


well I wonder which Klingon ship she was referring to. From original Star Trek series, probably not if they are just now in college.... maybe Next Generation klingon ship. I will try and find one.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 7th, 2007, 1:11pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 02:34am, nekitamo wrote:
What I really mean is you can't have an independent analysis if LMH, C2C or such are anywhere in the loop. Not if it's their bread and butter.


I think you missed the point I was making (or I missed yours!! grin)

Of course you can have an independent analysis with either of the above parties involved, but as to whether LMH would publish it relies solely on whether it’s corroboratory evidence.

What I was trying to say without actually spelling it out was that I think it’s incredibly naïve to think that LMH hasn’t had any of the original images analysed.

For example lets say she has had them analysed and the conclusion was that the images are beyond reproach and actually show what they purport to show, i.e. a Drone. Obviously then the next course of action would be to organize a press conference and, “Go public” in every sense of the phrase!! Personally if I was at the helm I would make it my sole purpose to ensure that there wouldn’t be a country in the world where at least one of the major newspapers weren’t running this story.

I also believe this is achievable, especially with the current media climate surrounding the UFO phenomenon, as even over the last three years I have witnessed first hand the choke hold on the media regarding UFO’s gradually being slackened, indeed recently I’ve even seen some UFO reports on mainstream media AND THEY’VE NEVER ONCE REFERENCED THE X-FILES (or used the X-Files title theme as background music.) This is an astronomical leap forward if you look at UFO reports from only five years ago.

Of course, every now and then in the past, a journalist would pop up who had a little integrity and presented a factual report on a UFO sighting but these were few and far between, now (in my opinion) they are becoming more the rule than the exception that proves it. In summary I’m trying to say that if you had what you believed was authenticated and verifiable proof of life beyond earth then the worlds media would sit up and listen!!

BUT, that wasn’t so much what I was getting at as I believe that LMH would have had these images professionally analysed by now, what I was getting at is there could be an easily recognizable error in the original images which becomes impossible to detect once they are manipulated (cropped, resized, sharpened etc.) for posting to a website. And it’s because of an error such as this that LMH has turned her back on the community that she’s SUPPOSED TO SPEAK FOR. Or at least the community she represents in some small way, and to people who are observing from outside the community LMH is probably seen as the more presentable and respectable side of UFOlogy!! (Even if it’s an obviously tainted and diluted view.)

Because after seeing her sporadic reporting on Isaac and the Drones (now you see it, now you don’t!!) there must be some reason that we are not aware of that LMH consistently blows hot and cold over the whole issue. And if you accept that LMH would have had these images analyzed by now (which I do) what other reasons could there be for her not reporting in a more professional and investigative style?

I feel this has gone well beyond the realms of jealousy and getting, “One over” on her critical and cynical peers, I feel as I have said before that this failure to release the images for investigation plants her firmly in the unenviable position of lead conspirator.

Hopefully if she ever visits any UFO forums she may see one of the many posts that are similar to this one and may realise that the people who used to look to her for answers no longer even factor her into the equation.

I think I may credit her perceptiveness a little too much though and the chances are she’d just sneer at any such criticism and simply keep up the pretence of being a credible reporter, while ignoring any and all requests for knowledge THAT SHE WAS TRUSTED TO CONVEY!! As remember, we are not asking her to break anyone’s trust because she was passed this information FOR THE SOLE REASON OF PUBLISHING IT IN ITS ENTIRETY!!

She is acting unethically and betraying the trust from those who looked to her for answers as well as the trust of every single person who has emailed her regarding the Drones, yes that even includes the anonymous and, “Professional people” who see fit to waste their time contacting her. And the recent experts who frequented the forums have tried to answer intelligently questions that are asked of them, but all of them within a couple of days or so have stated that they need the originals.

Wouldn’t now would be the perfect time to share the wealth that LMH s currently hording?

Unless of course there’s something she doesn’t want us to see…………..

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 7th, 2007, 2:22pm

DrDil...you should email that post to her!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Sep 7th, 2007, 2:25pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 2:22pm, murnut wrote:
DrDil...you should email that post to her!


DrDil, I agree with murnut, you should send both of your LMH posts today.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by elevenaugust on Sep 7th, 2007, 3:09pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 1:11pm, DrDil wrote:
I think you missed the point I was making (or I missed yours!! grin)

Of course you can have an independent analysis with either of the above parties involved, but as to whether LMH would publish it relies solely on whether it’s corroboratory evidence.

What I was trying to say without actually spelling it out was that I think it’s incredibly naïve to think that LMH hasn’t had any of the original images analysed.

For example lets say she has had them analysed and the conclusion was that the images are beyond reproach and actually show what they purport to show, i.e. a Drone. Obviously then the next course of action would be to organize a press conference and, “Go public” in every sense of the phrase!! [...]

Wouldn’t now would be the perfect time to share the wealth that LMH s currently hording?

Unless of course there’s something she doesn’t want us to see…………..


Absolutly, I agree 100%.
We have all much difficulties to make establish the truth and the silence of LMH at our requests can only seem doubtful, and hide something.
Thus, by her inactivity and her silence towards the ufologic community, she accredits the thesis of the fake.

She cannot thus continue any more to let settle the doubt and suspicion.....
Perhaps she thinks that the forums ufologic have only little influence on her audience?
I really do not know if it is true in the USA, but in Europe, certainly more.
All the debates on the anglophone forums are retranscribed in French and much Europeans have only one reliable information source: "Ovnis-Usa".
In France everyone say: “it's the fault of LMH if research cannot advance ....... she categorically refuses to share photographs HR ...... Until when will last she stubbornness? ..... and so on….”

LMH should be wary of the negative repercussions on the general opinion that her silence and her inaction could involve.
That could even, in the long term, more detrimental being, than to acknowledge that a proven and analyzed fake is the cause of all that.

Just MHO, of course but.....not only mine....


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 7th, 2007, 5:05pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 08:19am, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Here is another typical California white sky, which is actually the worst kind of pollution.
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Hey ATO,

Looks like March AFB, the 52s give it away. Been there, done that.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 7th, 2007, 5:10pm

Don't have a clue. It said California and I recognized that smog. That's all we were looking for was that overly white sky.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 7th, 2007, 5:33pm

A closer look at the Hi res BB drone.

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Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 7th, 2007, 5:37pm

Yeah, why would a hoaxer add something that doesn't have a noticeable function. They wouldn't (additional hooks).

Nice crisp photo Latitude.

I still believe it's something very archaic for the aliens. Because if it does belong to them, they sure as heck wouldn't want us to have their current technology. Instead, if they planned on monitoring anything down here, they would have used their old stuff. Consequently, it's something a lot closer to our own technology - excluding the anti-grav of course.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 7th, 2007, 5:40pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 5:33pm, Latitude wrote:
A closer look at the Hi res BB drone.

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from the weigh suspened from the center , there would be evident of the padles swaying up or down? what do you think? huh
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 7th, 2007, 5:45pm



What's the bright white piece protruding upwards
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Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 7th, 2007, 6:03pm

as for the drones being a hoaxs by way of the photos that can be proved mybe with or without the hoaxsters. yet the drone that I had the dream of was of ET tech thats one no one can change in my mind alone with the visions on the 16 and 20 of august. the drones stands and isaacs documents (the photos,hoaxs or real). thats my natural response as long as I am around, wish ET would come around more often than they do they will be back they have shown me far more to be truth. that you can take to the bank, yet you dont have to. grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 7th, 2007, 6:08pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 5:45pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
What's the bright white piece protruding upwards
User Image


I believe it is only a reflection of the sun.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 7th, 2007, 6:18pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 5:37pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Yeah, why would a hoaxer add something that doesn't have a noticeable function. They wouldn't (additional hooks).


I think the hooks go all the way around the thing. It evidently is highly configurable. You take the basic central assembly and attach whatever you need to do the specific tasks. I'd say it's a common trait of all the drones.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 7th, 2007, 6:38pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 6:18pm, Latitude wrote:
I think the hooks go all the way around the thing. It evidently is highly configurable. You take the basic central assembly and attach whatever you need to do the specific tasks. I'd say it's a common trait of all the drones.


My point is, if it were CGI, why would they attach parts to their model that don't have an obvious function. See my point.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 7th, 2007, 7:14pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 6:38pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
My point is, if it were CGI, why would they attach parts to their model that don't have an obvious function. See my point.


Yes it's a good point. To be honest and way too obvious, a hoaxer would never have designed objects as weird and way out there as these in the first place. The design only makes people go "No way".
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by LangLee on Sep 7th, 2007, 8:53pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 12:25pm, Latitude wrote:
Good job, LangLee. Yes the Ty photos are not very good (look how spoiled we are now). Ato has already explain the white background. Steven's pics corroborate the white background. Ty may have used a cheap pocket Instamatic or disposable film camera. Then LMH scanned those 5x7s. So the Hi res is actually a blow up from a small low res picture. Steven's photos are of better quality but the drone is very distant. The Raj and Chad pics are the best for analysis. Did you give your expert the Hi res large size versions of the Raj/Chad?


Indeed
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by urantia606 on Sep 7th, 2007, 11:28pm

on Sep 7th, 2007, 7:14pm, Latitude wrote:
Yes it's a good point. To be honest and way too obvious, a hoaxer would never have designed objects as weird and way out there as these in the first place. The design only makes people go "No way".


Hey guys, remember when I posted this?

From the 1952 statement:

(4)." A doughnut-shaped craft, about 125 feet outside diameter by about 36 feet thick, with a hole about 25 feet in diameter in the center. They are used only when complicated scientific observation of some nature is required. Due to the large amount of test equipment which they carry they have become known as "flying laboratories". They use an "electro-magnetic drive" and are not likely to be seen by your people except on comparatively rare occasions."

This is a statement made by the alien about one of their craft that they use near this planet. The BB craft I believe is exactly what the statement above is describing.

It is one of four types

[Of course I am aware that some Forum members strongly disagree with my opinion about the statement.]

[ATO...FTR...imo]

PS: Latitude....very clean and clear photo of the main section of the BB drone! Impressive.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:28am

Over the last three or four days I’ve re-read most of the Drone threads and it appears that in this thread (Drone pt5) there is almost nothing but pro-Drone comments, beliefs and theories!! rolleyes Not that there’s anything wrong with this per se, I just don’t feel it’s a true representation of the general consensus of the forum as there are also quite a few people on the fence.

And as nearly all pro-Drone comments are going unchallenged, I’ll attempt to slightly redress the balance (purely to at least give the illusion of fairness and equality. grin)

on Sep 7th, 2007, 6:38pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
My point is, if it were CGI, why would they attach parts to their model that don't have an obvious function.

Reverse psychology perhaps?

What better way to orchestrate a successful hoax than to do things that have never before been seen as firstly there’s no real comparison with anything (other that the Isaac documents/scans/drawings/CGI or whatever they may be) and secondly the more outlandish (or alien for want of a better word) the details are when viewed can surely only be a good thing for the hoaxers? If for no other reason than to prompt people to say,

“Why would they attach parts to their model that don't have an obvious function”

Which leads me to ask which parts do you suggest have an obvious function and what is that function? Purely to use as a frame of reference to discern which parts don’t have this functionality. wink

on Sep 7th, 2007, 7:14pm, Latitude wrote:
Yes it's a good point. To be honest and way too obvious, a hoaxer would never have designed objects as weird and way out there as these in the first place. The design only makes people go "No way".

Isn't that playing straight into the hoaxers hands?
I remember you also wrote:


on Aug 12th, 2007, 5:15pm, Latitude wrote:
But since the drone case, you will never ever hear me utter the phrase "too good to be true". That aurgument is a bogus as they come in my opinion.

Surely there is a slight hypocrisy here? Dismissing something because it’s, “Too good to be true” is equally as, “Bogus” as dismissing something because you think it’s, “Way too obvious?”

It wasn’t that long ago everyone wanted experts involved, and a couple obliged, but if occasionally an expert hints at a scenario that doesn’t appeal, then all of a sudden it’s a case of:

on Sep 5th, 2007, 6:50pm, Latitude wrote:
I'm beginning to think that taking these photos to any experts on CGI and models is the wrong thing to do. These people are so into their fields that they put way too much credence in them. Ask a cgi expert and he'll likely say "heck yes it is CGI". Ask a model expert and he'll tell you it's models.

All these people have their own agendas. It's rare to find a true open mind person in these days of cynicism.

Evidently as rare as it is to get a pro-drone advocate to accept any other viable or plausible possibility of origin. It really does seem as if any fact can be turned to either sides advantage when it’s necessary. For example you (Lat) also said:

“Be very careful when you start getting skeptical about the way in which you believe an alien device should be designed. We have no idea about the limitations of the technology. Is was most evident when the BB drone was accused of being a hoax because it was claimed it could in no way support it's own appendages with the tiny connecting pieces. It was thought by the narrow minded that centrifugal and inertial forces would break the thing apart. Then came the Isaac info which explained that the object used RSR (Rigid Spatial Relationship) that was responsible for it's form and rigidity.
It also was revealed that it was immune to environment and inertia.”


Yet a couple of comments back:

on Sep 7th, 2007, 6:18pm, Latitude wrote:
I think the hooks go all the way around the thing. It evidently is highly configurable. You take the basic central assembly and attach whatever you need to do the specific tasks. I'd say it's a common trait of all the drones.

“Object used RSR (Rigid Spatial Relationship) that was responsible for it's form and rigidity. It also was revealed that it was immune to environment and inertia.”

So obviously why then the need for the very, “Human” method of being highly configurable with the use of hooks? Especially since the RSR can hold them in place without the use of even hinges and brackets.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:35am

Cast your minds back to when we used to have people of all Drone persuasions willing to post comments, bringing up inconsistencies, asking the right questions etc. It seems that gradually they have ceased, I thought perhaps this was as the arguments weren’t valid but upon re-reading most of the threads it seems like they were merely, “Shouted down” rather than actually silenced with facts.

Times sure have changed, what happened to stating what was opinion and what was fact? This grey area was defined, redefined and reiterated on many an occasion, yet this thread in particular doesn’t seem to call for it, or maybes it’s different enforceable rules dependent on your beliefs and view point (or Drone-point. grin)

“To be honest and way too obvious, a hoaxer would never have designed objects as weird and way out there as these in the first place.” & “I get a kick out of looking at the Raj pictures and studying the shadows. There is no way a hoaxer could have got them so perfect.”

Fact or opinion?

The longer the dance of the Drone continues, the more complicated the steps become and the more tempers will become frayed, especially when the already fine lines between reality, fact and opinion are continuously and unintentionally blurred.

I must point out that I have nothing but respect for all of the regulars in the Drone discussion, especially Lat who I have quoted above. As the only reason I used Latitudes posts as examples is because they are the most recent and as he’s one of the most prolific posters here.

Please don’t misconstrue what I am trying to say, it’s nothing to do with specific members or comments but more on the general ambience or vibe of the forum as I feel there has been a definite shift lately.

Surely we don’t want to dwell to long on either end of the Drone spectrum, i.e. real or hoax, but rather explore any and all possibilities and avenues of possibility until a definitive conclusion is reached either way. Or at least until some new information is released that can be further dissected.

I also don’t know if anyone else has noticed this but apart from the experts and others who are, “Invited” into the discussion and the occasional cross-poster from OMF there has been hardly any new members willing to chance a post on the Drone threads, and certainly none have posted consistently. If we ask ourselves, “Why?” I don’t think any of us will like the answer but we all must surely be aware of it.

The simplest answer being of course it mustn’t appear (from the outside looking in) to be a very hospitable place. I know it presents something of a catch22 situation, especially as the, “Hit & Run” hoax posters comments must always be addressed, but also so should any intelligent lines of enquiry, be they for or against the Drones.

Sorry about the rant, I just wanted to tell everyone why after joining and lurking at many UFO forums, I chose to regularly post here. I'd also like to say to everybody to, “Keep up the good work!!” smiley

After all, we are all unified in at least one thing, as ultimately we are all hoping for and working towards the same goal, that of a conclusive and definitive answer, aren't we? wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:56am

on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:28am, DrDil wrote:
Yet a couple of comments back:


“Object used RSR (Rigid Spatial Relationship) that was responsible for it's form and rigidity. It also was revealed that it was immune to environment and inertia.”

So obviously why then the need for the very, “Human” method of being highly configurable with the use of hooks? Especially since the RSR can hold them in place without the use of even hinges and brackets.


I believe that RSR was only in effect with the A1 generator. I don't see the A1 on any of the craft, though... Maybe the craft have a different type of generator, or maybe a completely different propulsion system altogether?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:59am

very well put drdil i dont think no one could have said that any better. I also said from my dreams this drone enigma will bring about confusion now is not this the case? grin huray for drdil well spoken,scientific observation keep watch please.your the one.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 8th, 2007, 11:03am

on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:56am, newtothis wrote:
I believe that RSR was only in effect with the A1 generator. I don't see the A1 on any of the craft, though... Maybe the craft have a different type of generator, or maybe a completely different propulsion system altogether?
you have to remember that we have not determind which is back eginenered or original ET tech, from the pictures.a whole observation in itself. what do you think? huh
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 8th, 2007, 11:35am

on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:28am, DrDil wrote:
Over the last three or four days I’ve re-read most of the Drone threads and it appears that in this thread (Drone pt5) there is almost nothing but pro-Drone comments, beliefs and theories!! rolleyes Not that there’s anything wrong with this per se, I just don’t feel it’s a true representation of the general consensus of the forum as there are also quite a few people on the fence.

This my favorite forum because it is the friendliest to me and my stance. I sometimes lurk at ATS but I always am glad I'm banned because if I wasn't I would get myself banned. Ats is made up almost entirely of @$$holes. They are brain dead idiots and jackasses. ATS has a small minority of decent thinkers. I feel sorry for them. But everybody who wants to participate should find their most comfortable forum. For some that may be ATS. So in a way I am thankful for ATS. If it wasn't for them the jackasses might be here.

Quote:
And as nearly all pro-Drone comments are going unchallenged, I’ll attempt to slightly redress the balance (purely to at least give the illusion of fairness and equality. grin)


Reverse psychology perhaps?

What better way to orchestrate a successful hoax than to do things that have never before been seen as firstly there’s no real comparison with anything (other that the Isaac documents/scans/drawings/CGI or whatever they may be) and secondly the more outlandish (or alien for want of a better word) the details are when viewed can surely only be a good thing for the hoaxers? If for no other reason than to prompt people to say,

“Why would they attach parts to their model that don't have an obvious function”

Which leads me to ask which parts do you suggest have an obvious function and what is that function? Purely to use as a frame of reference to discern which parts don’t have this functionality. wink


I almost posted this myself. I actually typed in my reply to ATO that the debunkers would say "the hooks are put there to make the object more believable". I then erased that part thinking it was not my place as a believer to post it.

Quote:
Isn't that playing straight into the hoaxers hands?
I remember you also wrote:


Surely there is a slight hypocrisy here? Dismissing something because it’s, “Too good to be true” is equally as, “Bogus” as dismissing something because you think it’s, “Way too obvious?”

We are having a misunderstanding on this point. The photo quality is what is too good to be true. You cut the "way too obvious" out of context and changed the meaning I intended. I meant that I was being way too obvious when I was stating that a hoaxer would likely not design his drones in this manner because the design only causes people to not believe them. That would be counter to what a hoaxer would be trying to accomplish. I hope you understand this point because I feel it is very important. It's one of the first ideas that popped into my mind when I first viewed the Chad photos back in early May.

Quote:
It wasn’t that long ago everyone wanted experts involved, and a couple obliged, but if occasionally an expert hints at a scenario that doesn’t appeal, then all of a sudden it’s a case of:

I'm very grateful for what 11Aug and the others did in bringing in experts. I only wanted others to see their conclusions (or lack of conclusion) for what they are.

Quote:
Evidently as rare as it is to get a pro-drone advocate to accept any other viable or plausible possibility of origin. It really does seem as if any fact can be turned to either sides advantage when it’s necessary. For example you (Lat) also said:

“Be very careful when you start getting skeptical about the way in which you believe an alien device should be designed. We have no idea about the limitations of the technology. Is was most evident when the BB drone was accused of being a hoax because it was claimed it could in no way support it's own appendages with the tiny connecting pieces. It was thought by the narrow minded that centrifugal and inertial forces would break the thing apart. Then came the Isaac info which explained that the object used RSR (Rigid Spatial Relationship) that was responsible for it's form and rigidity.
It also was revealed that it was immune to environment and inertia.”


Yet a couple of comments back:


“Object used RSR (Rigid Spatial Relationship) that was responsible for it's form and rigidity. It also was revealed that it was immune to environment and inertia.”

So obviously why then the need for the very, “Human” method of being highly configurable with the use of hooks? Especially since the RSR can hold them in place without the use of even hinges and brackets.


I don't know the answer to that. I might guess that the drone parts may require physical contact. The hooks don't look like they do much else. They don't look like they secure the connection. It appears to be only a physical contact. I find the lack of brackets at that point odd enough. Maybe Isaac knows the answer to that.

My main point on this is that we should not attempt to prove real or fake based on questions like these because we don't understand the technology and probably never will.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 8th, 2007, 11:59am

If your quote was taken out of context I apologise. undecided

on Sep 8th, 2007, 11:35am, Latitude wrote:
A hoaxer would likely not design his drones in this manner because the design only causes people to not believe them. That would be counter to what a hoaxer would be trying to accomplish. I hope you understand this point.

I think I do, I mentioned reverse psychology earlier in the same post, I’m sure it’s not impossible that this was a pre-emptive strike by the hoaxer, or simpler still, they may have even got carried away with adding extra bits and pieces, or seeing exactly how far the boundaries of belief could be pushed.

on Sep 8th, 2007, 11:35am, Latitude wrote:
My main point on this is that we should not attempt to prove real or fake based on questions like these because we don't understand the technology and probably never will.

That was my main point as well, that was why I tried to highlight this using your earlier quote about the RSR and your current quote about the hooks. If I’m perfectly honest and failing the release of any further information I fear this will never be proved real or fake, not to the point of collective acceptance anyway.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 8th, 2007, 12:08pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:56am, newtothis wrote:
I believe that RSR was only in effect with the A1 generator. I don't see the A1 on any of the craft, though... Maybe the craft have a different type of generator, or maybe a completely different propulsion system altogether?

Hi NewToThis, I was actually paraphrasing Latitudes quotes to highlight an earlier hypothesis, and Latitude was in turn paraphrasing the Isaac documentation.

The full sentence was, “Then came the Isaac info which explained that the object used RSR (Rigid Spatial Relationship) that was responsible for it's form and rigidity.” That’s why by using his earlier hypothesis I thought it would negate his assumption of the Drone being, “Highly configurable.”

But back to your (valid) point about the not seeing the A1 generator on the craft, why should you be able to? Isaac’s documents said that the size of the device (needles included) is a little over 2 foot in length. Plus if this is the method employed then the A1 would surely be a core component of the Drones and as such would be located on the interior, of course that’s just my supposition but it would seem to make sense.

Another issue is that Isaac also says that A1 can be switched between several modes but did he says how it is powered? Presumably the device has an external power source. This power source may simply harness an as yet unknown element which it would seem is plentiful and then transform this into some type of reliable power source.

I think if this was the case then this power source would be created, “On the fly” as and when it’s required, and if this was the case it would further suggest that this, “Transformer/generator” (for want of better words) would again be located on the interior, as it would surely be the single most important part of the craft (closely followed by the A1 device.)

Just a thought as to why you may not be able to see it, if it's there at all....................
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 8th, 2007, 12:12pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:35am, DrDil wrote:
Cast your minds back to when we used to have people of all Drone persuasions willing to post comments, bringing up inconsistencies, asking the right questions etc. It seems that gradually they have ceased, I thought perhaps this was as the arguments weren’t valid but upon re-reading most of the threads it seems like they were merely, “Shouted down” rather than actually silenced with facts.

I don't think that happens here unless we get the ATS-like poster (closed mind and brain dead, deny ignorance? They are the epitome of ignorance) who comes in screaming "HOAX" without any facts to back that claim up.

Quote:
“To be honest and way too obvious, a hoaxer would never have designed objects as weird and way out there as these in the first place.” & “I get a kick out of looking at the Raj pictures and studying the shadows. There is no way a hoaxer could have got them so perfect.”

Fact or opinion?

No need to state the obvious, it's opinion.

Quote:
I must point out that I have nothing but respect for all of the regulars in the Drone discussion, especially Lat who I have quoted above. As the only reason I used Latitudes posts as examples is because they are the most recent and as he’s one of the most prolific posters here.

Thank you. I also have much respect for you and your posts and read every one of them. You are definately NOT the ATS type. I can appreciate differing opinions as long as they are intelligent.

Quote:
I also don’t know if anyone else has noticed this but apart from the experts and others who are, “Invited” into the discussion and the occasional cross-poster from OMF there has been hardly any new members willing to chance a post on the Drone threads, and certainly none have posted consistently. If we ask ourselves, “Why?” I don’t think any of us will like the answer but we all must surely be aware of it.

The simplest answer being of course it mustn’t appear (from the outside looking in) to be a very hospitable place. I know it presents something of a catch22 situation, especially as the, “Hit & Run” hoax posters comments must always be addressed, but also so should any intelligent lines of enquiry, be they for or against the Drones.

I have a different take on this. I think that intelligent lines of inquiry against the reality of the drones are being exposed slowly but surely as false. I think even Saladfingers is beginning to doubt the CGI explanation. The model hanging from a wire theory was successfully discounted. The viral marketing theory becomes less likely as the days go by.

Basically, the hoax theory is losing more credibility as all angles are being investigated.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 12:58pm

Quote:
saladfingersThe reason (I believe). If you create something. which is probably more realistic. odd and unrealistic. lack of detail. only look real. challenge. strangely complex. doesn't fit in. odd. aaaages ago. disinformation. I don't really believe. hypothesis. belittle. detailed. serious time. originating. copy it. images. design. how they look. I'm guessing. time. achievable. made. timescale. theory. man made. (disguised as alien). who knows.


Just sossss ya know. I did this because Saladfingers has consumed almost all Isaac/drone threads with his CGI in OMF and he's pretty much caused everyone to stop posting except for the skeptics. We have a lot of time on this subject and when something like that comes in and is so self-absorbed in their masterpieces, it takes away from everything and we lose. He has not yet made anything that didn't look CGI in regard to the drones.

Cruel World
User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by starsigndavid on Sep 8th, 2007, 2:27pm

Dr Dil, your posting was excellent. If EVERYONE who posted could conduct themselves with some semblance of social grace and diplomacy, things would probably be a lot less dramatic.
Also, there just isn't anymore info on Isaac and the Drones. We are like a late-stage sun, exhausting all of our fuel until we cannot stand up against gravity any further! We are in the midst of seeing this phenomenon collapse into its own black hole, from which nothing again shall ever emerge! I have been reading the threads, but posting VERY little, as there just in not much left to re-- regurgitate.
Let us hope something new comes along--if it doesn't, I will be forced to conclude this was all an ingeniously perpetrated hoax. In my heart, I didn't believe it was a hoax, but in the vacuum of no new intelligence, doubt thrives and grows into disbelief.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 8th, 2007, 3:19pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 2:27pm, starsigndavid wrote:
Let us hope something new comes along--if it doesn't, I will be forced to conclude this was all an ingeniously perpetrated hoax. In my heart, I didn't believe it was a hoax, but in the vacuum of no new intelligence, doubt thrives and grows into disbelief.


I look at the case much differently. No new information imo backs up the real side. A hoax requires a motive. A real sighting doesn't but can merely be a freak occurrence. In this case we have many freak occurrences, some which lead to the next. But where is the motive in it all? Nobody is making any money. Nobody is seeking notoriety. No viral marketing.

Why is it that doubt grows into disbelief? Have you forgotten why you began believing?

The case may simply go down into history as unsolved similar to Roswell. But what will happen next May if the sightings pick up again? I believe that more and more witnesses will come forward over the years. We have not heard the last of the drones. We also may have not heard the last from Isaac. LMH has confirmed she is still in contact with him.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 4:26pm

I just realized I didn't define my little picture here. Essentially, saladfingers stated today or yesterday that he can make the Big Basin drone in 2-3 days and we've spent 75 days trudging. In other words, he can attempt to destroy all that we've been doing and he can do it in 2-3 days.

It's as if he enjoys bursting bubbles whether his results are factual or not. His anti-grav CGI is good so he expects us to BELIEVE that the possibility is just that, CGI.

This is someone who in a subliminal fashion (based on his terminology) enjoys bursting bubbles. Such a person is also capable of destroying wishes, hopes and dreams. He's kept everyone from using their own imagination. More importantly, he's played the friend to everyone, the nice guy so that they would continue to accept his antics.

I hope y'all see this and if you don't, read his ALL posts and you'll see. He's a master of kissy, kissy while always making sure to say what everyone wants to hear alongside a new piece of CGI he has to show.

I will add that there is a part of him that regrets certain posts he's done. Not surprised because there is a lot of good in saladfingers but, I do see him backpedaling occasionally.

If you didn't know it already, that little green man is the saladfingers cartoon character. Google it, you'll see what I mean. This is what saladfingers looks like before I modified the picture.
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This is probably the lowest I've ever stepped but darn it, so many don't see what's going on and it's such a big unnecessary aggravation. You're fighting one way trying to get media attention and they're seeing CGI flying right and left. You're trying to get LMH to talk to you and she's only got saladfingers on her mind and the same goes for MUFON. So, low I went.

It's as if there is a war going on and you're sleeping with the enemy.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by starsigndavid on Sep 8th, 2007, 4:39pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 3:19pm, Latitude wrote:
Why is it that doubt grows into disbelief? Have you forgotten why you began believing?
.


From an emotional point of view, I must admit that I am discouraged. It is probably my horrific "lawyer" programming, but my brain thrives on resolution to issues, one way or the other. Your reply made me think--there is no rational reason for my hopes to grow into disbelief. You are quite right, but I am fighting a mounting disappointment in nothing further coming forward. I probably invested way too much in this being THE moment in history. ATO warned me against that, but my emotions like to ignore my intellect.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 4:57pm

Open Minds Forum is actually supporting saladfingers and his pictures. I let them know that I felt it was suicide for UFO websites but not necessarily for theirs and I couldn't support the idea so I deleted my membership over there after telling them so.

Previous to that I posted the following.
Quote:
Why do you all allow yourselves to succumb to such?

Quote:
I've been on the forums for many years now and have experienced a tremendous amount of situations that arise and stand out from the rest. Certainly the drones and Isaac both fit that description of such things that stand out. But then to think that it only took really one person to snuff it all just sort of takes me back. It's almost as if you take the part of the military during Roswell or you're playing the part of James Oberg at NASA. You're saladfingers and you're taking down the drones and Isaac in one fell swoop and you're using OMF as your tool. The sad part is that the members are being nice about it all and allowing you to do it and I really do not think are speaking their true mind.

Quote:
I've spent the last three days reading ALL of your posts. You don't want to hear what I really have to say but I will take four paragraphs from my four Word pages of notes and post them here. Don't fault me for what I have to say because like I said, I read ALL of your posts so I'm not going to explain why I make the following comments since you'll already know why.

Quote:
Saladfingers said yesterday...
We probably annoy the hell out of you, because you can't see why we keep trying to find the holes in the case.

Quote:
Well tell us then why? Spit it out, what is it? What is your reasoning behind discouraging the drone and Isaac posters to the point of no return, because if you didn't notice, they're gone. Is it that your continuing because there might be 3 or 4 left and you want to make sure they all go away? No? Then why? Are you expecting feelings of grandeur from what it is you do? And who is "we"?

Quote:
Saladfingers said yesterday...
i think it is fair to say that all the explanations that have been considered are reasonably possible. Model, CG, or real. I hope this case does roll on. It'd be great to have another sighting. The only thing is, in the time it takes to write such a book, it might be found out to be a hoax

Quote:
Your more recent posts tell me that you feel you're losing your audience. Your words are subliminal and your sentences form a circle because they are 180 degrees out from what you said in your earlier posts.

Quote:
Truthfully however, when I ran across this one though I thought to myself, "he could have used a rabbit, maybe even Bugs Bunny" but instead he used an ass". Why an ass when rabbits are symbolic with carrots? What is an ass symbolic with?

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Quote:
What I can say and will say here is something we all know and it's something we cannot change no matter how hard we try, which is that saladfingers is 100% responsible for the actions of Linda Moulton-Howe these days. I don't care if you got on the phone with her before that program aired and told her that it was CGI. I don't care because whether she stated such or not, she still would have held back the high-resolution photos because of your CGI and the CGI of others. We tried so hard to get certain things done over the past 75 days and look what stands in our way. MUFON won't even talk to us either because of your work and the list goes on.

Quote:
Saladfingers said... Does anyone else feel this way? ..I'll get my coat

Quote:
If you were in the Casebook I would say, don't forget your hat and the webmaster would be sure to applaud. CGI will continue to be the thorn in our side now as we all have to spend countless hours now weeding it all out.

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And no, I do not know how to use DrDil's diplomacy when we're dealing with nimrods.grin Diplomacy is many times a game played. A very similar game that saladfinger's put on time and time again in his posts. Y'all know me by now. I'm up front and personal and I won't succumb to such antics that hurt our trek, whatever it might be at the time.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 8th, 2007, 5:35pm

I am a member of both forums and I dont wish to be banned here.

I have expressed my concerns to salad on more than one occasion that he was muddying the waters with his creations.

The mods at OM have always backed up his right to create what he wants and post it there.

I understand their position and I understand yours.

I mostly agree with you ATO

Salad has de-valued many, many peoples efforts, by a lot of his comments and re-creations.

But this was bound to happen.....we cant put the CGI genie back in the bottle.

It is a fact now, that all UFO photos and video's are going to be dismissed as CGI by everyone on the outside of our community.

I believe the drone case to be real....it feels real to me

No amount of CGI re-creation is going to change that for me.

Salad has not changed my mind nor should have changed anyones mind who is a believer in this story.


You might have been a little hard on him but I respect you making a stand that you thought you had to make.




Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 5:42pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 5:35pm, murnut wrote:
Salad has not changed my mind nor should have changed anyones mind who is a believer in this story.

I know but unfortunately, he has changed the minds of hundreds and hundreds of others not to mention people have given up because he hasn't given up pushing his CGI on everyone.

I'm not hard on him, I just put it on the table because I see too much BS going on over there in those threads. I would never have it, no more then I did the Transformer, Bungie, HALO3 incidents. I gave those people a thread of their own and I said have at it. I kept it pinned to the rest of the drone/Isaac threads even, so that they never felt left out.

That's what OMF should have done with the CGI artists. Not the skeptics, just the CGI.

Saladfingers is making a mockery of ufology and we don't need him and don't want him. Nobody had the guts to say that but me is all. That's why I did it. Because nobody else could or would.
Quote:
You might have been a little hard on him but I respect you making a stand that you thought you had to make.

I wasn't hard on him. No more then a bunch of others that simply didn't have the guts to say what I said for fear of being banned.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by r0ni on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:17pm

I think you did the right thing ATO.. Just wondering have anyone done any cgi that has come close to this yet?


And just wanted to say that this picture feels fake to me..

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dl1027/files/object/Alabama.jpg
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:27pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 2:27pm, starsigndavid wrote:
Dr Dil, your posting was excellent. If EVERYONE who posted could conduct themselves with some semblance of social grace and diplomacy, things would probably be a lot less dramatic.
Also, there just isn't anymore info on Isaac and the Drones. We are like a late-stage sun, exhausting all of our fuel until we cannot stand up against gravity any further! We are in the midst of seeing this phenomenon collapse into its own black hole, from which nothing again shall ever emerge! I have been reading the threads, but posting VERY little, as there just in not much left to re-- regurgitate.
Let us hope something new comes along--if it doesn't, I will be forced to conclude this was all an ingeniously perpetrated hoax. In my heart, I didn't believe it was a hoax, but in the vacuum of no new intelligence, doubt thrives and grows into disbelief.


Good post starsigndavid. I agree that DrDil is a class act and a hard act to follow. It is not easy to have a strong opinion and an open mind at the same time. This is the position you must have if indeed you are truly interested in the truth – if you are a believer or not.

It gets to be very difficult with the circular logic used many times in posts here. Like the debate on what would an alien craft look like (or who knows what an alien craft should look like).

For example:


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How do we know that alien technology will place multiple “hooks” for attachments on the drone?

If we believe Isaac, the personal anti-grav device can literally hold components of the craft in position. It does not need hooks or brackets. The anti-grav device will do it all. Yet we tell each other this is an alien device and you can not apply human logic to it, while we apply human logic to it, so it must have multiple “hooks” to attach things (like a Swiss army knife) when we are being told by Isaac it does not need this.

Are we not listening to what we are saying? To what Isaac says?

In my opinion, having these “hooks” and brackets on the drone scream human, not alien. This shows what we expect to see. What Isaac was saying sounds more “high tech” and alien than a hook and bracket system.

The real answer lies in the materials it is made with...

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:40pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:17pm, r0ni wrote:
I think you did the right thing ATO.. Just wondering have anyone done any cgi that has come close to this yet?

And just wanted to say that this picture feels fake to me..
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dl1027/files/object/Alabama.jpg


Thanks for that, I've gotten a lot of positive support thus far.
If you were following Birmingham situation from day one you would have had the opportunity to read things that are no longer available to read about Mr. Smith. He sent an email to LMH (which she published but has since removed) that really told us how he was feeling about everything with her and he felt let down by the ufo community. This was the other thing that LMH did which is how I think she lost him too. I imagine she sent to him similar comments (criticisms) such as the ones that were sent to Isaac.

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May 2006, in Birmingham, Alabama. Photo by Mr. Smith.
We found Mr. Smith's sighting to be authentic based on his frustration once accused of photoshopping the photo (digital manipulation). To read his most recent email I could tell that he didn't have a clue as to what photoshopping was and instead was up in arms and decided to give up on the UFO community since it appears to have let him down. Mr. Smith’s photo actually gave us more insight since without it, we would not have had seen the multiple power line occurrences. It was only when we saw Mr. Smith’s photo did we begin to look in a different direction.
http://www.ufocasebook.com/strangecraftdrone.html


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by r0ni on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:46pm

yea i've been following this whole thing from almost day1.. Though alot is fuzzy.. Thank you for that clarification.

I guess it could feel fake to me cause the drone materials in that pic does not behave as stuff i'm used to see. Could be entirely different optical effects..
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:47pm

And don't forget there was this too.
Barksdale AFB, Louisiana - 1987 Airshow - Anonymous witnesses
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1258&category=Environment
http://www.earthfiles333.com/earthfiles/Episode17mp3.html
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:49pm

ATO,

I have had a theory for some time:

1. All of the drone photos and Isaac is real.

2. All of the drone photos and Isaac is fake.

3. One of the drones (photos) are real, the rest are designed to make them all appear to be fake.

Just some food for thought.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:49pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:46pm, r0ni wrote:
yea i've been following this whole thing from almost day1.. Though alot is fuzzy.. Thank you for that clarification.

I guess it could feel fake to me cause the drone materials in that pic does not behave as stuff i'm used to see. Could be entirely different optical effects..


It's quite a few years older too though. This is the one that the military could have built though and were testing. We're guessing of course but if that guy really did see it in an AFB then it exists or he's lieing. Hard to take your pick sometimes these days.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by r0ni on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:54pm

Clarification: Have only followed it since a couple days after isaac released his documents. smiley

Im'a believer, i think Isaac is real. Though im not adamant about anything.. I wish one had the cash to go out and research all this stuff around the world.. Must be some rich folks out there who's totally interested in the ufo phenomenon.. I wonder where they are..


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:54pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:27pm, Marvin wrote:
In my opinion, having these “hooks” and brackets on the drone scream human, not alien.


My point was though that CGI people wouldn't have added such brackets. They would have hindered their intention.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:57pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:54pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
My point was though that CGI people wouldn't have added such brackets. They would have hindered their intention.


From my study, it does not appear to be CGI. If it is not real, it would have to be a large model. But I firmly believe it is a real object in the photo (if the drone is real or not).
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:04pm

I did something today and I hope it pans out. We happen to have the equivalent to an Einstein in here. He pops in occasionally to check his thread but never really looks around.

Since anti-gravity would just thrill him to death, I sent him a PM that briefly outlined Isaac. Gave him a picture and a few addresses re: Isaac and the Big Basin drones.

Hopefully, he'll find the time to read the Isaac email and look at the linguistic primers and artifacts as well as the drones. He understands English excellent so there is no problem there.

Here is a bit about him (click into the other links inside too) if you want to get to know him a better. You might even think about responding to him in his thread and doing a little begging for me because I know it would be a plus to have him here in with the dronies. grin

If you think that Isaac's stuff is 'out there', wait until you see what Mohammad Mansouryar is into. He's further 'out there'. He's a 24-year-old prodigy Iranian Einstein, which is the title given to him by the media.

http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=announcements&num=1181394897&start=0
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Nodnunk on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:19pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 6:27pm, Marvin wrote:
It is not easy to have a strong opinion and an open mind at the same time. This is the position you must have if indeed you are truly interested in the truth – if you are a believer or not.



I agree with Marvin that the goal is to find the truth. Opinions are fine if they remain working hypotheses, but beliefs are self-limiting. Should new observations/data/reevaluations/revelations come along, they need to be accepted on their merits. The hypotheses must be altered to fit the new information. If Saladfingers is able to create a computer graphics image (CGI) indistinguishable from the drone photos, then that information has to be incorporated into the hypothesis. We would know that the drone images could be CGI, but we still wouldn't know if they are CGI. So, if he is successful, I would applaud Saladfingers for advancing the investigation. This is my opinion.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:28pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:19pm, Nodnunk wrote:
I agree with Marvin that the goal is to find the truth. Opinions are fine if they remain working hypotheses, but beliefs are self-limiting. Should new observations/data/reevaluations/revelations come along, they need to be accepted on their merits. The hypotheses must be altered to fit the new information. If Saladfingers is able to create a computer graphics image (CGI) indistinguishable from the drone photos, then that information has to be incorporated into the hypothesis. We would know that the drone images could be CGI, but we still wouldn't know if they are CGI. So, if he is successful, I would applaud Saladfingers for advancing the investigation. This is my opinion.


I agree with you Nodnunk.

But let me remind everyone, we tread on thin ice with fragile evidence. If the Casebook of any member has any original photos, it would be great to post them "as they are" for study. We have to follow the evidence and facts where they lead us. It should not be a matter of belief or opinion, but of knowledge.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:32pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:19pm, Nodnunk wrote:
If Saladfingers is able to create a computer graphics image (CGI) indistinguishable from the drone photos, then that information has to be incorporated into the hypothesis.

But he can't. That's just it. He can only come close. He has hurt more then helped.
Quote:
I would applaud Saladfingers for advancing the investigation. This is my opinion.

Applaud away, he's hindered the whole ufo community and not just Isaac. Try sending a UFO to a UFO website these days. Guess what the first thing out of their mouth is? Gee, is this another CGI UFO? It wasn't that way just three months ago. We did not have these problems now we have so much junk being sent our way it's pathetic.

If he wants to spend time analyzing with everyone else that's one thing but to sit there and continually throw CGI possibilities in our face is another and that's futile except that he's turned people away from the drone and Isaac story. That's all he's really accomplished.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by interocitor on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:35pm

You won't find the truth, because of the careful work done by many ego ridden individuals masquerading as experts especially in the field of computer graphics. Not one of these "experts" have shown their own credentials while demanding that any witness that dares take a photo and submit it bare all. The notorious Leviathan said every word at the beginning that is now being rehashed as new at OMF. This is being said by the main suspect of the hoax himself, Salad. No, shadow I am not leviathan. In the future, no one in their right mind will dare to submit a good photo, because the "know-it-all experts" will pounce upon them like the ravining wolves they are. ATO when do you plan to ban me? Come on pm me, what madame have I done that goes against your authority?
I give myself less than 2 days.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:36pm

Well, it looks like I've got to join here to speak to you. I hope you can find the time to read my reply (here and on OMF).

I feel like you are demonising me. If you have honestly read all of my posts, then you shouldn't have the opinion you do. Unfortunately, you read them with the opinion you have (without even saying anything to me!) and so would only really take in the bits that fit with how you feel about me.

I don't understand why you had to get so dramatic about all this. Why didn't you say something to me on the side in a private message?? I can take a hint.

I am not this twisted individual that you seem to think I am. I don't be nice to butter people up.. I'm nice because I grew up in a warm and good family, with great friends and people around me. I haven't really got a bad bone in my body.

I think it needs to be understood, (and if you read all of my posts you should have read this) that the likes of Leviathan, and others attacked me very harshly about my point of view.. and charged me with a task of making a perfect copy of the images of the drones.
But nothing i did was ever good enough for them...
instead they felt belittling me was far more fun. So I was attacked into a corner.. which actually made me fight harder.

So don't put everything on me.. the hardcore believers in the drone case actually made me work exceptionally hard to show my side of the coin.

I never even wanted to get so involved.

Even you are guilty of this. Only yesterday you said...

" You have a long ways to go if you're trying to duplicate, which is what you would have to do in order to make it convincing."

So.. there you go. You say something like that.. and what do you think I feel? What do you think it makes me strive to do?

I feel like.. is my work that bad? Guess i'll have to put some more time into it. So I think you need to understand all of it. I certainly don't want to make enemies, and I don't want to turn people away from this case.

I don't know where you get your figures from as to the hundreds i have turned away. But I suggest to you that these people would have done that irrelevant of what I did. Otherwise you are suggesting that I actually have a very convincing argument! I just don't understand where you are coming from.

So anyway, can we make peace? I don't really think i deserve the way you have spoken about me... and certainly not in the manner that you did. You could have said something long ago, and I would have listened.

Instead you have penned it all up inside and burst it out.. and not even to my face.. behind my back.

So please.. let's get this sorted because life is far too short.

Take care,

Kris
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:39pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:35pm, interocitor wrote:
In the future, no one in their right mind will dare to submit a good photo, because the "know-it-all experts" will pounce upon them like the ravining wolves they are.

That's exactly right and that's the problem.
Quote:
ATO when do you plan to ban me? Come on pm me, what madame have I done that goes against your authority? I give myself less than 2 days.


You keep speaking your mind I'll never ban you. You stay closed mouth and let them all get away with it then I'll think about it. ROFLMSO

LOL, do you realize how rare that is here. Gosh, maybe two people in the last year (not counting spammers). We aren't ban happy. But, I have been known to use idle threats. lol
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:41pm

Do you know what I can't do and boy it's killing me?

I can't post all of the PMs I've received in just the past two hours thanking me for saying exactly what they wanted to say but didn't.

No negatives, all positives and numerous. So you see, saladfingers I think over estimated his welcome over there.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:51pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:36pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Unfortunately, you read them with the opinion you have


I don't have an opinion about you, just your actions.

Quote:
I don't understand why you had to get so dramatic about all this.

I'm not dramatic whatsoever. I'm angry! I'm angry that you won't let everyone go on about what it was they were doing there. You put the stopper in it for OMF. Sure, their admin could give a hoot but that doesn't mean anything. They won't grow with that kind of attitude is all.

Why don't you instead answer my questions. There were I think 9 of them. You didn't really answer one of them. I'll finish the rest of this post when you're done answering them one at a time.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:52pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:36pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Unfortunately, you read them with the opinion you have

I don't have an opinion about you, just your actions.
Quote:
I don't understand why you had to get so dramatic about all this.

I'm not dramatic whatsoever. I'm angry! I'm angry that you won't let everyone go on about what it was they were doing there. You put the stopper in it for OMF. Sure, their admin could give a hoot but that doesn't mean anything. They won't grow with that kind of attitude is all.

Why don't you instead answer my questions. There were I think 9 of them. You didn't really answer one of them. I'll finish the rest of this post when you're done answering them one at a time.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by interocitor on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:55pm

NO, I AM NOT LEVIATHAN TO ALL WHO WANT TO KNOW, BUT IN THE BEGINNING THIS GUY WAS RIGHT. HE NEW EXACTLY WHAT CLEVER LITTLE SALAD WAS ABOUT ANT IT IS PROVED. This guy has started the same thing with the Isaac devices and apologizes that they are not quite right or not very good , but just give him enough time and they will be. That statement flies in the face of any real logic. The "hoaxer" got them right to begin with. Get the latest edition of 3D World Magazine and take a close look at the ILM models for Transformers, they are grossly inferior to the drones. Don't take my word get up and go get um. I got um. I have sat and listened to this debunking stupidity for months. If the original drones are CG, no one has come close to duplicating them down to the worn gold plating and look of the other metal casing. The tied back thin wires on the top rig are unbelievable and they change position from photo to photo. If you expect the aliens to land on the White House Lawn, when they are capable of technology far beyond us, you are strange. Why would a truly intelligent entity want to land on the lawn of an idiot, to make an oil deal. Truth, you ain't goin to get it, because your liers are to big and skilled and accepted for what they say as opposed to what they can do. Again no I ain't LEVIATHAN, SO DON'T PULL THAT DEBUNKING AND MISDIRECTING C R A P.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:00pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:35pm, interocitor wrote:
You won't find the truth, because of the careful work done by many ego ridden individuals masquerading as experts especially in the field of computer graphics. Not one of these "experts" have shown their own credentials while demanding that any witness that dares take a photo and submit it bare all. The notorious Leviathan said every word at the beginning that is now being rehashed as new at OMF. This is being said by the main suspect of the hoax himself, Salad. No, shadow I am not leviathan. In the future, no one in their right mind will dare to submit a good photo, because the "know-it-all experts" will pounce upon them like the ravining wolves they are. ATO when do you plan to ban me? Come on pm me, what madame have I done that goes against your authority?
I give myself less than 2 days.


What credentials do you want?

Listen, lets take this ugly bag of snakes and lay them out straight.

Firstly, this myth of people not sending in UFO images because the fear of them being seen as CG...

How many people that are incredibly lucky enough to see a true UFO are actually interested in Aliens and UFOs? The chances are, they will be an ordinary guy on the street.

they won't have a clue about what is or isn't happening in the investigation side of things.

If they honestly have taken something incredible.. of course they will still send it in.


Secondly. The CG issue.

It is complex. A prime example is the Haiti videos. If this hadn't been caught out, it could have fooled a lot of people. You have to factor in CG these days. In fact, not just now, but for the last 10 years!!!

It is becoming affordable to the public. You cannot plug up your ears and go LA LA LA LA LA LA >> IM NOT LISTENING LA LA LA LA LAAAA!!!

Do you know how many CG artists are out there? Thousands! Any one of them could decide to try out their skills and release an image. Without arming yourselves as to the techniques and tell tale signs, you will ed up wasting your time on images that are simply not true. It isn't about bursting bubbles, ruining peoples dreams, or anything else.
It is about finding out which evidence is real, and which is not. The evidence which is real will stand up against any tests. As Atrueoriginal has pointed out, i haven't managed to recreate the drone to the same level as the images presented. Isn't that a point towards the real sidehuh You should be pleased!

It is like someone holding on to their CD collection because they don't accept MP3s. Technology moves on, and to seriously keep up with the game you have to factor in all of the possibilities.

The drone case presents 3. Real, a real model, or CG.

All 3 angles have been argued at OMF, but CG gets the kicking, because it threatens the comfort zone.

If you ask me, the worst thing to ever happen to UFOlogy is the digital camera.. not CG. Digital photography actually enabled CG to be a possibility in this field. it is unavoidable.

So lets not stick our heads in the ground about this. We've just got to work out a good approach to how we dissern whether something IS Cg or not.

Never before have we had soch a clear, detailed and close up UFO.. EVER.. period. Never before have we had the oportunity to analyse an image at such lengths. Never before has there been a case where CG could have been such a direct possibility. Never before have we had to use techniques ..sorry.. develop techniques to find out if this is a real possibility. Never.

So it has been a massive learning curve for everyone involved.. and for some.. it has been too much or a dream breaker. It doesn't make it any less important however.
It is like learning to walk. this kind of work has never had to be done before. In what other facet of life would you need to work out if something is computer generated? Sure you may see an advert, and go I wonfder how they do that.. but you wouldnt spend any time trying to find out!

Here we have a case where it is presented as real. CG is one of 3 options, and we need to know which one it is.

Anyway.. i think I've given a rough overview of why this is important. I'm sorry that it has overwhelmed some, and made some quite disillusioned. Unfortunately, it is quite unavoidable at this point in time. it is the 21st century.. and the world is changing.. and fast!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Kris

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:03pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:55pm, interocitor wrote:
NO, I AM NOT LEVIATHAN TO ALL WHO WANT TO KNOW, BUT IN THE BEGINNING THIS GUY WAS RIGHT. HE NEW EXACTLY WHAT CLEVER LITTLE SALAD WAS ABOUT ANT IT IS PROVED.


I forgot all about that. Oh boy! Lev will be eating this up. That's not necessarily a good thing. Oh well, such is life and then we die. That we know for sure. rolleyes
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by interocitor on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:08pm

AND NOW HIS ALL KNOWING SELF IS HERE, WITH THE SAME SMARMY OOZE HE SPEWED THERE. SO GOES THIS SITE. "I MUST JOIN SO THAT ALL CAN PRAISE ME FOR MY LEVEL HEADEDNESS AND ULTIMATE KNOWLEDGE OF ALL THINS CG, UFO, ETC. Let me the great salad spent time charming you away from any progressive ideas, let me show you how little you know about any subject I decide to inject my expertise into, let me become defensive to show how put upon I am when all I want to do is destroy the subject of UFOs. You will listen because I will show the clear logic of my thoughts and force you to accept them. You will do this by my use of pear pressure and my self effacing ways. I will say and charm and make special little friends that I PM and you my dear will follow. I also bring on members to the site that are my friends and they will praise my poor work. In my mind I am a master of subtlety and ally must fall under my say, you will to.

Why don't you guys give up now and watch the show to come it will be a reenactment of the OMF spectacular. Before this guy is through you will gladly say that all is CG even your mothers. Hey, don't listen to me just watch. Every new bit of evidence you get you will have to first run by Saladbreath for subtle approval or you edification that it is all CG.

GOOD LUCK, cause you will loose.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:18pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:55pm, interocitor wrote:
NO, I AM NOT LEVIATHAN TO ALL WHO WANT TO KNOW, BUT IN THE BEGINNING THIS GUY WAS RIGHT. HE NEW EXACTLY WHAT CLEVER LITTLE SALAD WAS ABOUT ANT IT IS PROVED. This guy has started the same thing with the Isaac devices and apologizes that they are not quite right or not very good , but just give him enough time and they will be. That statement flies in the face of any real logic. The "hoaxer" got them right to begin with. Get the latest edition of 3D World Magazine and take a close look at the ILM models for Transformers, they are grossly inferior to the drones. Don't take my word get up and go get um. I got um. I have sat and listened to this debunking stupidity for months. If the original drones are CG, no one has come close to duplicating them down to the worn gold plating and look of the other metal casing. The tied back thin wires on the top rig are unbelievable and they change position from photo to photo. If you expect the aliens to land on the White House Lawn, when they are capable of technology far beyond us, you are strange. Why would a truly intelligent entity want to land on the lawn of an idiot, to make an oil deal. Truth, you ain't goin to get it, because your liers are to big and skilled and accepted for what they say as opposed to what they can do. Again no I ain't LEVIATHAN, SO DON'T PULL THAT DEBUNKING AND MISDIRECTING C R A P.


Clever little salad? About? I'm not about anything which you seem to infer, and I ask that you talk to me.. not about me. For all intent and purposes, you might as well be Leviathan.. as you display the exact same attitude. Hostile, judgemental, rude, not to mention accusational.

Look, you are misquoting me. If you give anything enough time, you can get it more or less perfect. Of course you can. That doesn't fly in the face of logic at all. It is common sense.

I also said that I wasn't going to try and make it perfect.. that it is for a music video I am creating that is to actually tell the story of the drone mystery. I did say that i will show the shadows, as the lighting technique I used, gives exactly the same results as what appears in the document photos. You didn't mention that did you.

Listen i really don't mind talking to you, and discussing things calmly. But all this misquoting, accusational stuff is far more detrimental to the drone case, than anything you accuse me of doing.

I think you need to take a good hard look at what you are saying. If you want to say what a great guy Leviathan was, then I think you should consider that you are backing a guy that tried to perpetrate his very own little drone hoax.

All hail the hoaxer!.. long live fantasy!.. Down with the truth... it's boring!.. Ra ra ra.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by interocitor on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:24pm

You see just watch, go to his first posts at OMF and you will see the same pattern, No one asked for your credentials, because no one cares, this is your way of skirting the issue and instills in your audience that you are put upon. Why not shut up about yourself and keep your name out of it, because it does not satisfy what you really want. I believe you work for the government, because you in your sooo brilliant way have derailed any investigation by laying the doubt of CG. Now I do not buy your expertise, because your models and animation are fair at best. Most of your audience are not aware of that or that you subtlety changed the Alabama Drone photo when your made a "reproduction" of it. You said if given enough time, you could reproduce it with out flaw. I guess this included the flaws you introduce in to your copy of the photo. You will win with these people because it is your job, you spend far to much time on this drone/Issaac mess for it to be anything else. You will whine on and on and play the offended dogooder until they succumb to you. It is only important to me to know that your are a government agent, or the hoaxer, or a demented ego ridden person, bent on proving what. To the posters who come here you are in for the same side show OMF received from his Grace, so enjoy it. As for UFOcasebook, change the name to Salad's Praisebook. Watch I give you a month until every new siting you receive will have to pass the salad inspection. BTW this Salad is not fresh, but OMF STALE!!!!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by interocitor on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:34pm

Now see how he implies that I am Leviathan. This is his tactic to derail anything I say. So compassionate to the lesser lights of this site. Same song as on OMF. If the posters here can not see the damage you have deliberately and purposefully done to any UFO report from here on out then they deserve you and will welcome you with open arms. When doe the book come out? after you convince them that Good little Salad is so misunderstood or after you bring in some of your sock puppets and stooges? What is your purpose in all this if it is not to say all is CG except what you declare is not. No one is fooled by your work and has not been so far, so what is your point. Why don't you start your own forum where those that believe you have all the smarts can meet to agree, because you hate those you disagree and will wait a long time to show that to them. I think you are a classic case o thinking you are far smarter than you are. Don't cry little Salad you will in about a week have what I believe is correct excised from this record. In the end you will win as you did at OMF and as they do not know you run the show there, well............................................
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:35pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:08pm, interocitor wrote:
AND NOW HIS ALL KNOWING SELF IS HERE, WITH THE SAME SMARMY OOZE HE SPEWED THERE. SO GOES THIS SITE. "I MUST JOIN SO THAT ALL CAN PRAISE ME FOR MY LEVEL HEADEDNESS AND ULTIMATE KNOWLEDGE OF ALL THINS CG, UFO, ETC. Let me the great salad spent time charming you away from any progressive ideas, let me show you how little you know about any subject I decide to inject my expertise into, let me become defensive to show how put upon I am when all I want to do is destroy the subject of UFOs. You will listen because I will show the clear logic of my thoughts and force you to accept them. You will do this by my use of pear pressure and my self effacing ways. I will say and charm and make special little friends that I PM and you my dear will follow. I also bring on members to the site that are my friends and they will praise my poor work. In my mind I am a master of subtlety and ally must fall under my say, you will to.

Why don't you guys give up now and watch the show to come it will be a reenactment of the OMF spectacular. Before this guy is through you will gladly say that all is CG even your mothers. Hey, don't listen to me just watch. Every new bit of evidence you get you will have to first run by Saladbreath for subtle approval or you edification that it is all CG.

GOOD LUCK, cause you will loose.


Loose?.. loose what? Loosen my belt?

Well, actually, I'd like to think people can make their own minds up. I don't think I can force anyone to think anything. If that is what has happened to you then I guess you must be weak willed. I hope that isn't the case.

I guess the abuse of me must be in the forum rules here now. So much for mutual respect. You keep going... it really doesn't bother me non.

For the record for anyone vieing this very sad character assasination...

Please do as has been suggested by the originator of this attack. Read my posts at OMF. Decide for yourself if I am this bizarre demon. I really don't think that I have to sit here and reply to this misquoted and, quite simply.. incorrect garbage being spouted at me.
It is sad really, because inadvertedly, 'Atrueoriginal' and Interocitor' are actually calling all of you lot stupid! They are saying that you lot out there can't think for yourselves, ..can't make your own minds up, and aren't able to come to your own conclusions. How insulting can it get. What heros you both are.

If that is actually how you feel.. then I don't think I actully want to waste my time on you. I've got a hell of a lot more respect for others than clearly you do.

If anyone wants to talk to me about their concerns, and how the CG side of things should be handled in an investigation, I am all ears.

Take care all

Kris



Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:37pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:08pm, interocitor wrote:
GOOD LUCK, cause you will loose.


Not this kid. My guns are loaded.

Kris, you look at things in a different perspective then myself and many others. Especially others that spend time in here and not OMF necessarily since we are more directly involved in ufology and aliens whereas they are not so much. They have a little here and a little there but this is our gig and the reason why is because we have a different atmosphere and it's 90% alien/UFO oriented in one way or another. As opposed to multi-topic.

Also, we all need to tone it down so from here on out, especially since you're present, no condescending tones, derogatory or sarcastic comments from one member to another, which of course includes myself and others.

You saw or rather you think you saw a UFO out of the corner of your eye and you sat down and figured out that it was a UFO based on 1/10th of a second glimpse. Now how does that really sound to someone. Do you have any other UFO experience you can fall back on other then that one?

What I see though is that you don't care about ufology. If you did, you wouldn't be standing in their way. Worse yet, what about those out there with more important issues then ufology. Do you think that they like to see the likes of CGI artists in the UFO forums? We have a connection to UFOs and aliens that you do not have. For many of us they turned our lives completely upside down from the day it happened until a fraction of a second ago because it's ongoing and never stops. Ufologists think the same way even though their experience may have just been a sighting. Just the same, would they mind seeing someone spend his days in a UFO/alien oriented website showing off his wares in regard to CGI? The answer is no. Absolutely none of them.

Our trek in trying to discover recent UFO activity is almost futile due to CGI and the likes of CGI artists. What is wrong with just backing out? Why do you want to add insult to injury? We've had hoaxes in the past but nothing like today. By today, I mean daily and every day.

So, we wait and we watch and we read (and input) whatever we have to relieve the fears of others that are going through some of the same things us abductees went through. We watch the skys, I watch the forum and I see what changes have taken place. Meanwhile, we're having to what?! Put up with what? CGI. Why? Why should be have to. Our job is tough enough already.

BJ's got everything he can to report a story these days and CGI has to sit in his mind every time he opens up another email. He doesn't appreciate what's happened nor does any other UFO/alien website.

Again, OMF is the exception to the rule. That certainly needs to change but with their present admin I doubt it will. They're forum is all about having an open mind, well I wonder why they're not open to the idea that by them allowing you to push your CGI in there that they're hurting the whole ufo community. I know they are and I know you are. Only you don't realize it or won't accept it.

Here, you do the math. This is only four months and 8 days of UFO articles BJ has put together. Look at it and you'll see now why it's such a pain in the be-hind.
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=reports&num=1148913265&start=15
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:37pm

ATO, I totally understand your anger and frustration. I share in your concerns and mourn the arrival of this new debunking tool. Having said that, CGI is here to stay and Kris is right in stating that it is now and will forever on be, a part of the investigative equation.

Creative people respond to a challenge by becoming more creative. Exceeding expectations is what it's all about - I know. Kris, the only criticism I have for you is a lack of forethought. In responding to the creative challenge, you created a monster. Only you can say, in hindsight, if you would have acted any differently. I don't know you so I can't assign any motives - good or bad. I have a feeling, though, that you got stuck in a loop. You were in the right place at the wrong time, and here we are. Someone had to throw open the gates and I guess you drew the short straw.

So what do we do now? I can only speak for myself. I was a believer in UFO's and ET contact long before the drones buzzed California. That's not going to change or be shaken by anything short of God telling me it ain't so. One thing that has frustrated me from the very beginning is the perception on the part of so many people that this is all about the hardware. It's not. In fact, some of the most compelling evidence in this drama is not photographic or mechanical, it's human - what people like Shirley saw, what they felt, how they responded. Don't just look at the pictures, go into the Earthfiles archives and listen to the words.

You know - LMH is the one person, even more so than Isaac, who could really lay many of these analysis issues to rest. Pity that doesn't seem to be in her plans. I think it's unconscionable that she has had no mention on her site of anything about this in weeks. She should have said that she was still in touch with Isaac, she should be sharing the info that she has from her engineering experts. If you're looking for a villain in this saga, she's it. Blurring the truth with CGI creations and withholding the truth with intent are two very different things. The first we will all have to live with, the second we should never accept.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by interocitor on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:43pm

I don't give a damn about Leviathan, all he said at the beginning, read it for yourself, was what you were doing. Now at OMF many of the things this strange bird said are being repeated as if he never said them.
I don't care about it, but I dread seeing the wonderful and needed UFO experience reduced to an eternal CG argument at sites such as this. That is what it now is. Some of the people working on the Isaac Docs have done good and unbiased work, but if Isaac ever comes back after this, I will believe he is a hoaxer. Why would a sane person want to be run through this mill.

Now folks back to the Salad Show. He will wait a while and come running back with a nice prepared script for you all to follow and be in awe of. Have fun while you are watching the show. If you are interested in what I said, I suggest you read it quick and then prepare for the next big CG adventure.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:43pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:37pm, MarkM wrote:
Having said that, CGI is here to stay and Kris is right in stating that it is now and will forever on be, a part of the investigative equation.


Then we all learn how to use it by going out and buying the software. What we don't do is learn about CGI in the forums because you cannot. Instead, it's being promoted and giving hundreds of kids ideas to go out and do it too.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:07pm

LOL! Creating convincing CG images is a complex and time consuming process and top notch software isn't cheap. it's not the "kids" we have to worry about.

Breath and think about this for a minute... although some CGI is phenomenal, the majority - even that found in mega-budget Hollywood movies - is lacking one very important element, life. It's "soulless" for lack of a better word. Look at what Kris has done, then look at the BB hi res photo. Do you see (or is it feel) what I mean? the CGI is very pretty and impressive, perfect even. But for all it's 3D rendering it's still flat. What we need to do is learn to see with more than just our eyes. Can you feel the truth when you look at a photograph? It is possible , and with far more accuracy than one might think.

We can only move forward. Either we learn these "new" observational skills, or we throw up our hands in frustration.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:15pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:07pm, MarkM wrote:
LOL! Creating convincing CG images is a complex and time consuming process and top notch software isn't cheap. it's not the "kids" we have to worry about.

Breath and think about this for a minute... although some CGI is phenomenal, the majority - even that found in mega-budget Hollywood movies - is lacking one very important element, life. It's "soulless" for lack of a better word. Look at what Kris has done, then look at the BB hi res photo. Do you see (or is it feel) what I mean? the CGI is very pretty and impressive, perfect even. But for all it's 3D rendering it's still flat. What we need to do is learn to see with more than just our eyes. Can you feel the truth when you look at a photograph? It is possible , and with far more accuracy than one might think.

We can only move forward. Either we learn these "new" observational skills, or we throw up our hands in frustration.


I'm aware of all that. I didn't mean kid, kids. I'm old so a kid to me is 35 years old. lol

It's the multitudes that have gone the CGI UFO route though because everybody seems to think they gotta get their youtube in before they die or something. Besides, we don't have to look too awful hard right now but someday we will. And worse yet are the copy cats that take what could be factual and try and duplicate it because they feel a need to inform an ignorant public who might not be as ignorant as they think. In the process of doing so, they've now attracted a big audience that jumps on their band wagon and begin to do the same and here comes the snowball.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by r0ni on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:18pm

MarkM: Exactly, that is something i wanted to say but could not get the words for it.. Thank you!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:19pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:18pm, r0ni wrote:
MarkM: Exactly, that is something i wanted to say but could not get the words for it.. Thank you!


Mark always has the words. And Mark, I'm not angry anymore. I just kicked my dog. I'm fine now. lol
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:21pm

Quote:
is lacking one very important element, life. It's "soulless" for lack of a better word.


But Mark, then the CGI people go and hang it from a bunch of invisible wires with life behind and around it or whatever other excuse the have to use.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:23pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:07pm, MarkM wrote:
Breath and think about this for a minute... although some CGI is phenomenal, the majority - even that found in mega-budget Hollywood movies - is lacking one very important element, life. It's "soulless" for lack of a better word.


So true, Mark. I got into an argument on the Mufon forum about this same topic and I mentioned the same things you are saying. This cgi guy produced a cgi picture of a knight and he was raving about how real it looked. I replied that it did not look real and that it looked like something that should be standing in a wax museum right next to the wax Elvis.

My post was deleted by the mods.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by BuzZz777 on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:43pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:19pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Mark always has the words. And Mark, I'm not angry anymore. I just kicked my dog. I'm fine now. lol




You kicked your dog and thought it was funny?

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:53pm

the drones has been determined natural,constucted byman from ET tech.even CG has undoutedly traveled by way of the roswell crash. so simply put we have to start back with the natural ways to determine fakeryor hoaxs tru our own expert senses and those expert analises in the field. that is with calm and without anziety, which confuse more, and drains energy away from the task at hand. so if this is for us to know one way or another it will surly come forth. take care all just listening to you all the perfesionals. grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:54pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:43pm, BuzZz777 wrote:
You kicked your dog and thought it was funny?


LOL, me kick a doggie. No way. I love animals. I was being facetious. Check these out. Found them last night. So funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA3dHi_o7Yw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qit3ALTelOo&feature=dir


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:12pm

You know what.. I would have definatley done things different. The real problem is that no one said anything!

Honestly Atrueoriginal, I'm not this monster you think I am. As Mark said, it all got stuck in a loop. There is no script, and no rule book to all of this. The drones are a unique case. There isn't another like it.

If it wasn't me who tackled this from the CG side of things, it would have been someone else. The real problem, is that I was being told by all the believers that the only way to prove that it is CG is to recreate it perfectly.
So I gave it a good shot. Like Mark says.. the eyes know.. and CG can lack life. To me though, the original chad drone had that exact feel about it.

So anyway, back to what i was saying... I was being asked to create a perfect replica. But what ever i offered was never real enough. I know that replication isn't proof, so does anyone. But the challenge was set, and I was, and still am fascinated by the drones.

It isn't my fault that my artform is CG. I work on what I am interested in, what inspires me. So creating the drones seemed like a really great challenge. If you were me, you'd feel the same.

My recent work has all been for a music video (for drone the musician) who wrote a piece of music about the drones. We have since become good friends, and the music video is kind of my way of bringing this unconcluded case to a conclusion, because I need to get on with my life!
The A1 unit is for the video, and was never meant to prove anything.. but I was shocked to see how identical the shadows were. The BB drone I've been working on is also for the video. I had to update that because the old one didn't look good enough. This vid is going on my showreel, and I want it to look good.. ya know? It is my job after all.

I don't know. I find this whole thing bizarre, and I totally understand your perspective on this. I'm really sorry for the way I have made you feel. I'd prefer to move forward than backward, and all this back biting makes me sick to the stomach, because I'm not like that. I hate confrontation, and I also hate upsetting people.
I hope we can move forward.

Just please, if you have something to say about me, please bring it to me first so we can talk about it. If the tables were turned, I don't think you would enjoy it very much either.

As for Interocitor... I won't waste my time. He clearly has his mind made up, and has created some very wild fantasy about me. Strange lad.
No doubt this is the "prepared script" he wanted lol shocked laugh

keep cool all

Kris

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by BuzZz777 on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:38pm

on Sep 8th, 2007, 9:54pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
LOL, me kick a doggie. No way. I love animals. I was being facetious.



Thats Strange.. just taken in a cat myself.. never had a cat before.. a young stray that was living with the foxies... just so cute.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 9th, 2007, 07:39am

What’s happened to this thread? undecided

If it’s 90% UFO/Alien orientated then shouldn’t we get off the character assassinations?

Or why not just admit defeat and open a mutual forum/member flaming thread like RU?

I sensed this was coming yesterday when reading ATO’s comments over at OMF, Saladfingers has become a bone of contention with many people on many forums and why? For what reason, to what ends? Does anyone here REALLY believe that he’s a hoaxer who created any of these Drones? If they do I suggest they provide evidence, (as well as an explanation as to why he can’t replicate it) and if they don’t think he’s the perpetrator then what’s the big problem?

I feel it’s unfair to the point of persecution to lay the blame for all things CGI at the door of Saladfingers, I also feel he shouldn’t be championed as the leading authority on CGI for he freely admits there are thousands out there who are capable of better or the same. And from what I can see all this flaming is achieving is turning Saladfingers into an involuntary martyr to the cause, and if history has taught us anything it’s that the martyrs are always remembered.

If people here really feel that strongly about Saladfingers why the need to state it publicly, as after the way Saladfingers handled himself over at OMF it was something of a foregone conclusion that he would join this forum to further defend himself, in fact I’d have been more surprised if he didn’t. I also wonder if Saladfingers was pro-Drone would we even be having this discussion?

I honestly believe that if Saladfingers had never joined the Drone threads on any forum we would be no further forward than we are now, in fact if anything we would probably simply be less CGI-savvy. If it wasn’t Saladfingers it would have been someone else and possibly someone as misguided and patronising as Lev who tried to pass CGI off as Drones and justify it by alluding to the fact that it’s, “An educational experiment.”

In all honestly, I personally feel I’ve learned more about CGI, researching and general image analysis (not to mention the mentality, actions and reactions of people inside and outside the UFO community) in the last three months than I’ve learned in the last year or so, this accelerated learning curve is surely only a good thing?

Slowly but surely the more the Drone saga progresses I see more and more parallels that have burdened UFOlogy since its inception, only a more condensed version in which every facet is evolving at a lightning pace (as if viewed through an introspective microscope.) And being able to watch this first hand is a privilege I’m sure many don’t as yet fully appreciate. It’s a little like a UFOlogy case study, but until we recognize and address the problems that have hindered our predecessors, not only are destined to repeat them, I fear we may never learn from them and that really would be a crime.

Also, as the discussion/s continues the more I see all of the problems with organized and institutionalised religion manifesting itself. I feel this is solely down to the belief factor and nothing else. Belief in something that (as yet) can’t be proven is fundamentally just faith and as such is unique to the beholder. Faith can’t be taught and beliefs can’t be sold (try as some people might) so we reach an inevitable dead-end, this has happened throughout the ages and the results are never pretty.

Ultimately, unless we recognize and accept the inevitable fact that different people will have differing views and until we start to respect each others opinions, talents and beliefs then this destructive cycle is destined to infinitely repeat in an ever increasing vicious circle, UFOlogys very own self-destructive and perpetual war of attrition in which there can be no victors, only varying degrees of losers……………
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by raska on Sep 9th, 2007, 08:06am

I posted this at OMF:
" I am sad AlienContactee left, i feel she opened a window and i'd like to openly speak my mind here ,because i agree mostly with what she says.
I guess the support of Admin towards SaladF was too much for the ufologist in her.
Admin's choices are his own and i respect that. The real openmindness here is the freedom to speak up, accepting others with their differences and their purposes on this board.
If i dont agree with the sensed "purposes" then, i just do not participate.

Its been a month now that i stopped reading SaladF's posts ,as i felt he was sort of "hijacking" everythread of the Drone board and, mainly because i found some familiar flavor here , with some articles i had read about ATS and CoIntelPro . The method seemed identical.

More than a year ago, Bill Ryan pointed in the direction of Laura Knight Jadczyk's site : www.signs-of-the-times.org/ ;who was writing articles about the subject.
These papers (6 of them) are now in the site's archives, january, march 2006 ,in a blog form . Its a rather long read ,and i read it all ,the exemples used to illustrate are not from UFO ,but politics and 9/11.
CoIntelPro

I'll just mention 2 sentences , from the articles written by Laura Jadczyk ,that i found relevant to what AlienContactee said :
"Again we point out : Debunkers are sent in only when damage control is needed. And damage control is only needed when it is thought that there might be damage "
btw,this would mean here that the Drones are real !

" Debunkers are sent in, not to give answers to the outstanding questions, but to push the emotional buttons of the public, to reassure people who really want a " reason to believe " that their government is not lying to them "

I really admire the work done by the ThinkTanker's group and SalaF's work was needed UP TO A POINT; for them.
Digital pics cant prove a thing. At least we know that after a 3 months " battle " .
What i keep in my mind with a big smile for SaladF is " hulk " and " cg for Leviathans " real gifts here .

smiley
Now, anyone can shoot, i spoke my mind and feelings ; so ; all IMO
i will double post this in CBK, doing a breach with my no double posts.Not a word changed.
Peace to all of us.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by raska on Sep 9th, 2007, 08:25am

[quote author=DrDil link=board=drone&num=1188266784&start=373#24 date=1189341541
In all honestly, I personally feel I’ve learned more about CGI, researching and general image analysis (not to mention the mentality, actions and reactions of people inside and outside the UFO community) in the last three months than I’ve learned in the last year or so, this accelerated learning curve is surely only a good thing?
[/quote]
DrDill :I agree with you for the above, i learned about photography and CG, 2 topics i knew nothing about .

My post doesnt fit too well after yours ,i just wrote on OMF that i 'd post it here too ;so i did. pardon me.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 9th, 2007, 09:01am

Raska, I thought your post was excellent


Edit to add, somehow missed the good Doctor's post
which is also excellent

IMO, we need to get over this and move forward
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 9th, 2007, 09:02am

on Sep 9th, 2007, 08:25am, raska wrote:
DrDill :I agree with you for the above, i learned about photography and CG, 2 topics i knew nothing about .

My post doesnt fit too well after yours ,i just wrote on OMF that i 'd post it here too ;so i did. pardon me.

Don’t worry about it smiley, I seen your post over at OMF and expected it would be the next one, now everyone has had their say hopefully we can ALL move forward.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:14am

I have to admit that I never learned one thing about CGI from Saladfingers. I never saw him try to teach anybody at omf how the drones could have been made with cgi. He always talked that he would one day do an article exposing the tell tail signs of CGI in the photos but never did. If he never found a CGI smoking gun why didn't he report that?

Salad could have been a major asset for OMF as a impartial CGI analyst. He could have been used to check claims of cgi hoax that were made by Biedny, Ritzman and Steve from Mufon. But he never did those things. Everything he ever did was a partisan effort to destroy the drone case. His actions prove he never was interested in research.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:31am

I vote that we take what we've learned and move on. We've all voiced our concerns - I think we're in agreement (regardless of what side of the drone fence we've landed on) that CGI will play a big role in photo analysis from this point on.

What we really need the pros to do is to identify the most likely clues that point to a CG image. We know that differences between the two do exist, no matter how "invisible" they may seem. We need a screening method, software that that does a point by point study based on certain digital criteria. This is where CGI experts can provide an invaluable service to UFO investigation. I have no doubt that such software will be developed - good money for someone. UFO research won't be the only area that a tool such as this would be instrumental.

For now, just as party lanterns in the UK have become the new "swamp gas", CGI has replaced the "pie pan tossed in the sky". Times may change but people who refuse to consider the possibility of real UFO's and ET never do. There will always be some way to explain sightings and images away - just as long as there are people who don't want to believe.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:39am

So true MarkM...we are wasting our time with this salad tossing.

If anything I think we all agree that the images are NOT CGI.

There NO proof of CGI
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 9th, 2007, 11:01am

on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:39am, murnut wrote:
So true MarkM...we are wasting our time with this salad tossing.


ROFLMAO grin grin grin grin grin grin

Salad tossing. Oh my, that's one for the books.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by LangLee on Sep 9th, 2007, 11:19am

on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:12pm, Saladfingers wrote:
You know what.. I would have definatley done things different. The real problem is that no one said anything!

Honestly Atrueoriginal, I'm not this monster you think I am. As Mark said, it all got stuck in a loop. There is no script, and no rule book to all of this. The drones are a unique case. There isn't another like it.

If it wasn't me who tackled this from the CG side of things, it would have been someone else. The real problem, is that I was being told by all the believers that the only way to prove that it is CG is to recreate it perfectly.
So I gave it a good shot. Like Mark says.. the eyes know.. and CG can lack life. To me though, the original chad drone had that exact feel about it.

So anyway, back to what i was saying... I was being asked to create a perfect replica. But what ever i offered was never real enough. I know that replication isn't proof, so does anyone. But the challenge was set, and I was, and still am fascinated by the drones.

It isn't my fault that my artform is CG. I work on what I am interested in, what inspires me. So creating the drones seemed like a really great challenge. If you were me, you'd feel the same.

My recent work has all been for a music video (for drone the musician) who wrote a piece of music about the drones. We have since become good friends, and the music video is kind of my way of bringing this unconcluded case to a conclusion, because I need to get on with my life!
The A1 unit is for the video, and was never meant to prove anything.. but I was shocked to see how identical the shadows were. The BB drone I've been working on is also for the video. I had to update that because the old one didn't look good enough. This vid is going on my showreel, and I want it to look good.. ya know? It is my job after all.

I don't know. I find this whole thing bizarre, and I totally understand your perspective on this. I'm really sorry for the way I have made you feel. I'd prefer to move forward than backward, and all this back biting makes me sick to the stomach, because I'm not like that. I hate confrontation, and I also hate upsetting people.
I hope we can move forward.

Just please, if you have something to say about me, please bring it to me first so we can talk about it. If the tables were turned, I don't think you would enjoy it very much either.

As for Interocitor... I won't waste my time. He clearly has his mind made up, and has created some very wild fantasy about me. Strange lad.
No doubt this is the "prepared script" he wanted lol shocked laugh

keep cool all

Kris

Not being mean but I haven't seen anything you've done that's close. The only things that I've seen in your CGI's that look really real is the background.
If you can do one like the Rajman craft and I mean exactly like it, then you can do human skin that looks real.
That isn't going to happen.
Sent you a PM by the way.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 11:37am

on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:31am, MarkM wrote:
I vote that we take what we've learned and move on. We've all voiced our concerns - I think we're in agreement (regardless of what side of the drone fence we've landed on) that CGI will play a big role in photo analysis from this point on.

Mark, you're just too passive sometimes and you don't see how we've all had to walk backwards due to such things. Our trek is futile, we can't do what we do and expect to see anything happen now. Not without research outside of the forum and who out there is likely to do that now with what they've seen? Nobody. Not even LMH until Isaac or one of the drone witnesses from her camp makes a move.

I see things quite different then most when it comes to Kris's attempts. Maybe it's because I spend more time thinking about what I see and I'm not one to stay silent. I'm going to show you here just a few things that I see so you understand better why I feel like I do about his presence.

Originally, (first OMF post) he told his new audience back in May that he was a 'professional' CGI artist. This was done on the same day he posted his UFO-cross youtube. This all appears to be directly after a comment was posted in the youtube by lucianarchy that saladfingers slid into OMF. That was 14 weeks ago.

First of all, I believe he's using that word professional quite losely because he is an adept CGI artist and not a professional one. Technically, It's ok though for him to say professional since CGI is his profession and what he does to make his living. With that original youtube from May 24th he got a considerable amount of notoriety. He's going to feed on that now. Nobody in their right minds would not think any other way. That's what they want and need since they make all attempts to continually promote themselves. There's nothing wrong with that certainly however he did it in our realm and in the process of doing so he's upset the ufology apple cart. Unfortunately, many of you seem to think that's ok. Don't make me go into your ALL posts and find your constant whining on the subject previous to this incident. You cannot deny such things so why are you defending his actions?

In the process of promoting himself he used the screen name saladfingers. I simply saw an ulterior motive here. As you already know, saladfingers is actually a very popular cartoon video series designed by another CGI artist called David Firth. So unless he knows Firth on a personal basis that's one thing but that name is being used to attract a bigger audience since people see the name saladfingers. Essentially, if he doesn't know Firth on a personal basis, which I do not believe he does based on a post of his then he purposely took on the name saladfingers for his own promotional and monatary reasons. Also, if he doesn't know Firth he's infringing, not necessarily legally because I am not aware of Firth's protection on 'saladfingers' but certainly its a moral issue.

From the very day of May 24th, the Firth situation (saladfingers) really bothered me and it's because something quite similar to this happened to me in the early 90's. I had a retail business and I also sold my accessories in monthly motorcycle magazines. My ad bill ran over $140,000 a year for these full page ads I was running in popular monthly magazines. I had been doing so for about four years when suddenly another company started running their new ad at the same time and they used my stores name except omitted one word from the name. Legally I couldn't do anything about it. Overnight, I lost hundreds of thousands of dollars from basically a copy cat thief who wanted to take the easy road. I still had to pay for my ads each month since I sat on a year contract. As well, I had a tremendous overhead that went along with previous sales that I lost overnight and that was a killer each month. I had 28 bodies who ran the mail order end of my business that I still had to make sure got paid each week. Sales fell flat on their face and the magazine could do nothing about it. My sales were almost cut in half over night and there was that other company with half of my business and a fraction of my overhead expenses since theirs was a two-man operation to begin with. It was nothing more then a moral issue and not a legal one but they certainly didn't care.

That story is much bigger then saladfingers capabilities but just the same it means the same thing and that is just to explain the possible outcome when someone decides to infringe on a name that belongs to another.

So first and foremost, is Kris purposely infringing on Firth's creation and utilizing the name for greater notoriety? That will be for him to answer. One thing is certain, he never presented his explanation about using the saladfinger's name. Instead, it was brought up by another member and Kris lacked response and it all went away. I sense that he'll probably say something like he just liked the name or it is because saladfingers is brilliant, which is why or whatever other reason he'll have but I hope he's honest instead. He also cannot use the fact that there is a difference in the additional 123456 that he added to the name because when it comes to promotion via Google, 123456 makes little difference. For that matter he continued to use the name saladfingers in OMF deleting the 123456. Consequently, he now ends up mixed throughout the internet alongside the real saladfingers sites of which there are many.

Like I said, Kris never brought up the saladfingers issue. Instead, it took a member to do it. Why? What is it that humans do when we have an ulterior motive? Do we throw it out there or just sit and hope that nobody brings it up. This is the post where Kris first responds to a saladfingers comment made by a member. Will make point in next paragraph.
Quote:
David Firths creations are extremely odd, but brilliant. Not to everyones taste no doubt smiley
I really love the music he uses on it too. Boards of Canada and Aphex Twin. Excellent smiley
Anyways, back on topic ....

Anyways, back on topic....
Why does he want to get back on topic when he's the topic. Is the Firth thing bothersome to him, was his original intention to infringe on saladfingers? The psychologist in me comes out and I see someone who is afraid to see anyone confront him with his intentional infringement on the tremendous popularity of another CGI artist.

Here is another post that I find unusual since Kris never responded to the poster ever.
Quote:
Quote:saladfingers
Sept 5, 2007, 12:09pm, saladfingers wrote:I'll also add that video attracts the news far more.. even the papers strangely. The drones have been on TV.. my bloody animations! (Without any royalty or permission I might add!) Cheeky gits. Spain picked it up, and I was contacted by a Japanese station wanting them. But haven't heard off them since... they might get back some time soon though.

To which a member replied:
Quote:
Quote:member
Was the video they used clearly labelled as CGI? Pretty safe guess is no? How does it feel to be a hoaxer?

To this day, he has not responded to that member's post.

Honestly, looking at all of my notes I just have so much to say and it would just take too long to mention it all. So instead, I'm going to go to June 17th. This is a bigger example of my real gripe. The only thing I see when I see things such as these are that others see them as well and their immediate thought is if saladfingers can duplicate it then it must be a hoax. Sure, some know better, but the majority have blown off all of the drones and the Isaac artifacts simply because he produces a close copy and they don't know better. That close copy is all the majority has to see and their minds are made up. Whether any of the drones are real or a hoax it doesn't matter because what Kris did was simply put the word hoax in their minds by showing how easy it was to do.

Kris is a hoaxer, he's just a different kind is all plain and simple because he's producing hoaxes that are forming new opinions. I love the way he always makes sure that everyone knows that it's his own rendition. This is simply because he has to. What he is, is a contender and is contending with what might be authentic but he's knocked it out of the ring. Do you think that the researchers in the UFO community didn't see what he was doing way back in May and June?

User Image

We keep complaining about MUFON, Friedman the lack of media attention and are wondering why they won't look into or research the drones or Isaac. Well duh! I sure as heck wouldn't spend money to do so either or risk my reputation if I had to contend with CGI copies of drones thrown in my face. Like I said originally when this all began, he's hurt ufology. He's hindered research possibilities. Sure, he's a nice guy but he has underlying ulterior motives and an agenda that you all don't care to see and that's why, he's a nice guy. This is what he thinks about us and you just let it slide and pretend it's not there. We're all asses chasing after CARET (carrot).
User Image

on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:39am, murnut wrote:
So true MarkM...we are wasting our time with this salad tossing. If anything I think we all agree that the images are NOT CGI. There NO proof of CGI

Murnut, you keep forgetting. That's only what you think, most have left and ufology won't tackle it because they saw something different.

You're all too complacent and I'm afraid it's simply because he's the nice guy. Oh how sad.

I am standing behind ufology. Who are you standing behind?


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 11:53am

on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:39am, murnut wrote:
So true MarkM...we are wasting our time with this salad tossing.


How much time do you think we've lost because we have nobody in Ufology working on either the drones or Isaac?

What kind of new knowledge do you think we've lost and have not gained or don't have because we have nobody in Ufology working on either the drones or Isaac?

Can you all answer that?

Almost everyone here is making me feel like you're all just here for the conversations alone and what's behind the conversation has little meaning. The drones are done, Isaac is done there is no going forward. We have no help and we can't do it ourselves.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by urantia606 on Sep 9th, 2007, 12:09pm

I've been watching the ufo scene for over 50 years. The Internet has caused everyone to have an anxiety attack.

We used to get a new ufo fix every six months if we were lucky. Maybe a new book would come out or there would be a new sighting. Now we like to have our fix every six days.

Isaac and LMH are old school. They're in no hurry to satisfy the ufo junkies. But is would be nice if they did. I would like that myself.

But I must add that this site and Ovnis are doing a great job on keeping up with the drone story.

The drone episode will probably go on for the next several years and most likely for decades to come..
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 9th, 2007, 12:12pm

I have just made a small site, just to keep things alive:

http://vonstern.homepage.dk/Magazine.html

And, mostly for the fun of it grin

Enjoy,

VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 9th, 2007, 12:21pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 12:12pm, VonStern wrote:
I have just made a small site, just to keep things alive:
http://vonstern.homepage.dk/Magazine.html
And, mostly for the fun of it grin
Enjoy,
VonStern

Cheers for the video link Vonstern, fame at last!! laugh
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 9th, 2007, 1:26pm

Atrueoriginal...

Is this a joke? Are you seriously hounding me now because of my name? You really must be gaining a vast amount of respect for your character assassination. You deserve such respect.

My name...

When i came across the drone images for the first time, i was led to the OMF via old fashioned bulletin boards in Outlook. That was where i had always read up on the general goings on.

I had a very strong feeling about the Chad drone being CG from my Professional viewpoint. Professional means you get paid to do something. So that is entirely accurate, and it means nothing else.

So I created my drone out of sheer interest while I sat in my office with my Fiancée. She played coloured lines, and I messed about in 3D.

I'd never felt compelled to join a UFO forum before.. not on a website anyway. But I was really quite convinced that it looked 3D. I still maintain that.. as much as you hate it. You are not the thought police ATO.. I am entitled to my opinion. So I joined OMF, as there was some good conversation going on in there. It seemed to be a group of logical, and sound thinkers...

i posted up my opinion, and I also posted up a few pics I had done of it.

Now then.. my name.

I love the cartoon Saladfingers.. I think it is wicked! I love Firths work! .. Now I play a game online occasionally called Halflife 2. Quite probably only a few here might know it. I use the name saldfingers there. So i just used the same name to join up on OMF. No big deal.. not even close to this premeditated fantasy you describe!
Later in the day, i thought it would be cool to see how my drone model would look moving. So I created a little animation out of interest. I chucked it up on youtube (because I've got no idea where else would be better to put it that doesn't charge). I thought those on the OMF would like to see what it might look like if it was in video.
Totally innocent. I wasn't looking for a mass audience, I didn't even think anyone would give two hoots. I thought it would be nice to add something that i could do. It wasn't to prove anything.. it was to see what it looked like in motion.

Spin on a couple of days.. LMH in her investigative glory goes and reports the video as real.. not animation, despite the fact it was labelled as CG.

All of a sudden it ends up everywhere. If you were shocked.. then I was flabbergasted! It seemed crazy! It didn't even look real. But non the less.. it happened.

Something I did out of all innocence was thrust into the limelight by Linda 'no fact checking' Howe. She could have said "I don't know if this is fake or real, I need to look into it as I haven't had the time". No one would have complained at that.

But no.. she said categorically.. "IT IS NOT ANIMATION".

Here is a link to the sound file.. blow yourself away...

I emphasised the NOT ANIMATION part, so you hear it clearly...

http://www.thefiledump.com/showfile.php?id=29356

Here is the Youtube video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRv3WAEnHMc


If LMH hadn't made this ridiculous claim, then i would have sunk into the background. No one would have referenced me, it would have been a small side note in the casefile.

The fact is.. she did. She did this not me.

Because of all this, I have had to maintain that name, because otherwise it would confuse everyone about what is being referenced.. or who. I actually really wanted to change my name, and wish that I'd have known that such a stupid light was going to be shone on me. Id have actually picked a decent name.

All your guessing about me using the saladfingers name to further my popularity is an absolute joke. It would seem you will stop at nothing to attack me. You are making things up.. creating falsehoods.. judging me, and rewriting history without checking with me first.

Can you not see how pathetic your behaviour must seem to others?

The crazy thing is.. you are only making me more notorious by all this insanity...


ATo.. if you really think that this is a proper way for an adult to behave then I think you should go see a therapist. You are paranoid to the point of lunacy!

How on earth you think that I have premeditated LMH making a very stupid mistake I really do not know.


I was willing to let this rest, and try to move forward in a constructive way. You have now proven you are not worthy of that effort, respect, or any more of my time.

I pity the next person that you turn on. I hope everyone here doesn't have to suffer your fantasy.


Kris


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 9th, 2007, 1:56pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:14am, Latitude wrote:
I have to admit that I never learned one thing about CGI from Saladfingers. I never saw him try to teach anybody at omf how the drones could have been made with cgi. He always talked that he would one day do an article exposing the tell tail signs of CGI in the photos but never did. If he never found a CGI smoking gun why didn't he report that?

Salad could have been a major asset for OMF as a impartial CGI analyst. He could have been used to check claims of cgi hoax that were made by Biedny, Ritzman and Steve from Mufon. But he never did those things. Everything he ever did was a partisan effort to destroy the drone case. His actions prove he never was interested in research.




I never finished the report, because I was being told that nothing I could do or say would prove the drones are CG.. so I thought.. sod it! Why should i waste what would be a considerable amount of my time on people that don't care. ATO is a prime example.

Look at this link. I gave up a whole day to put all this together. I did it to arm those without any knowledge of CG with a bit of a 101.

http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=cali1&action=display&thread=1184240982

Have you done anything for anyone like that? If I was you, I wouldn't bother either.. because you get attacked for it.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 9th, 2007, 2:03pm

ATO, I agree with almost everything you wrote.

I just cant blame salad for the CGI mess that ufo investigators has to deal with now.

Salad, should realize at this point, that he has deeply offended some of "us" and that he cant fix it

UFO studies is not my lifes work, but it is for some people, do you realize that salad?

Do you understand that salad? Maybe you did not know you were making enemies but i tried to warn you, way back when our friend neighborhood LEV said the same thing.

Since LEV said it, I knew you would dismiss it, thats why I felt compelled to back him up.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

Dear salad, you might as well accept the fact you have made enemies and move on.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 9th, 2007, 2:09pm

Saladfingers I have been watching this case of the drones and think it may be an case of interjection by some people to embellish the story but some of it may be true.
The first picture that I saw released in this case was A thing called a Pipe Pig which is used to clean pipes when they have become corroded. The pipe pig was setting on a mirror and someone had taken a picture of it and was claiming it was a drone. And I agree with you some of the other pictures look like CGI, but a couple of them I have seen look to be authentic pictures of an unknown craft.
At this point I think that there is a possibility that the story may have some truth to it especially in the area of propulsion.
I didnt have time to read all the discussion between you and ATO , but i dont think its important, what is important is that you continue to publish your thoughts so that we can compare them to other known varibles. ATO and you both deserve to have your opinions and I think is your and ATO's rights to do so.
I came back to add this, Let me say that I dont like flaming people, everyone is equally important here, it is against the forum rules and you can be dimissed from the forum for doing so, ATO is my friend as well as I hope I can consider you also friendly to the forum, I dont think it is proffessional So please dont do that.
Take care I will be reading your posts with interest.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by raska on Sep 9th, 2007, 2:23pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 09:01am, murnut wrote:
IMO, we need to get over this and move forward

Thank you for your comment, Murnut. Yes, we'll move forward ,specially with pacifiers like you among us. smiley

Edit to add: this note goes for DrDill too ! smiley
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 2:48pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 1:26pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Is this a joke Are you seriously hounding me now because of my name? You really must be gaining a vast amount of respect for your character assassination. You deserve such respect.

First of all, I'm not attacking you. I'm just stating things as I see it. I'm not hounding you either. You're coming in here I didn't drag you in. This isn't a character assassination either it's what I see and saw. You overplay your words just a bit much don't ya think?

Secondly, you have failed to answer my questions and I think that it's important that you do so now since you've managed to once again side-step the real issue. This time I put them in bold and raised the font size so maybe you won't miss the question marks this time. There's about 20 questions. While you're at it, please answer the other member's question they had that you have yet to respond to, which I'll repost here.
Quote:
Quote:saladfingers
Sept 5, 2007, 12:09pm, saladfingers wrote:I'll also add that video attracts the news far more.. even the papers strangely. The drones have been on TV.. my bloody animations! (Without any royalty or permission I might add!) Cheeky gits. Spain picked it up, and I was contacted by a Japanese station wanting them. But haven't heard off them since... they might get back some time soon though.

To which a member replied:
Quote:
Quote:member
Was the video they used clearly labelled as CGI? Pretty safe guess is no? How does it feel to be a hoaxer?

Quote:
When i came across the drone images for the first time, i was led to the OMF via old fashioned bulletin boards in Outlook. That was where i had always read up on the general goings on.

That's immaterial. The point was only that you went into OMF on the very same day that you posted the cross UFO is all. I'm sure you were looking for an audience and that's probably a gimme. You're human and that's human nature.
Quote:
I am entitled to my opinion. So I joined OMF, as there was some good conversation going on in there. It seemed to be a group of logical, and sound thinkers.

Your opinion is not the issue. The issue is that you are confusing the issue and causing important people (UFO researchers) to walk away from the drones and Isaac because you find it important for your own needs to make sure everybody sees that they can be duplicated. You can't duplicate them but while attempting it people think you can. They don't stop to think that you cannot. Have you understood that now because I think I've typed it at least three times in the past 24 hours. Essentially, your CGI is a hindrance to ufology. Oh please don't give me that "we'll learn to discern from the real thing and CGI by watching you do your tricks". What a cop out.
Quote:
Saladfingers..No big deal.. not even close to this premeditated fantasy you describe!

It is still infringement and how could you possibly know if it was a premeditated fantasy. That's a stretch.

As usual, you're once again going off into left field and you are not addressing the main subject at hand. You side step it every time. So instead of side stepping it, answer for it. It's not like I didn't put it in bold orange or anything for you so you wouldn't miss it. Here it is again and this time I put the MAIN points in orange so you won't miss them this time.

however he did it in our realm and in the process of doing so he's upset the ufology apple cart. Do you think that the researchers in the UFO community didn't see what he was doing way back in May and June? We keep complaining about MUFON, Friedman the lack of media attention and are wondering why they won't look into or research the drones or Isaac. I sure as heck wouldn't spend money to do so either or risk my reputation if I had to contend with CGI copies of drones thrown in my face. Like I said originally when this all began, he's hurt ufology. He's hindered research possibilities.

Please answer the following questions plus any that may be found above. Most of these below I gave you two days to answer and you haven't answered a single one of them yet.

Quote:
Saladfingers said yesterday...
We probably annoy the hell out of you, because you can't see why we keep trying to find the holes in the case.

Quote:
Well tell us then why you think that we can't see why you keep trying to find the holes in the case.? Spit it out, what is it?
Quote:
What is your reasoning behind discouraging the drone and Isaac posters to the point of no return, because if you didn't notice, they're gone.?
Quote:
Is it that your continuing because there might be 3 or 4 left and you want to make sure they all go away? No? Then why?
Quote:
Are you expecting feelings of grandeur from what it is you do?
Quote:
And who is "we"?

Quote:
Truthfully however, when I ran across this one though I thought to myself, "he could have used a rabbit, maybe even Bugs Bunny" but instead he used an ass". Why an ass when rabbits are symbolic with carrots? What is an ass symbolic with?

Quote:
Can you not see how pathetic your behaviour must seem to others? ATo.. if you really think that this is a proper way for an adult to behave then I think you should go see a therapist. You are paranoid to the point of lunacy! I pity the next person that you turn on. I hope everyone here doesn't have to suffer your fantasy.

That's a keeper. Such comments get members banned, keep that in mind.
Quote:
How on earth you think that I have premeditated LMH making a very stupid mistake I really do not know.

I never said anything of the sort about premeditated. Now where did you get that from? Are we making things up now?

Please answer these two questions also since these two are the real issues at hand and one of them is the crux of the issue.

Could you care less that thousands of people take this about as serious as their livelyhood because for many it is their livelyhood and you are infringing upon that livelyhood of theirs?

Are you attempting to prove hoax by replication?
Quote:
I was willing to let this rest, and try to move forward in a constructive way. You have now proven you are not worthy of that effort, respect, or any more of my time.

Music to my ears and then again not, because now you know you're going to be asked to answer the real issues as mentioned above in orange and that were previously asked but you continue to side step them. Consequently by saying what you just did, you've let yourself off the hook.

Saladfingers, there is a little red square at the top right corner of your monitor on the website facing you. Click it and it'll all go away and that is guaranteed because like I said, Roswell's got the military, NASA has James Oberg and we've got you. Does that explain it better?


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 3:02pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 2:03pm, murnut wrote:
ATO, I agree with almost everything you wrote.I just cant blame salad for the CGI mess that ufo investigators has to deal with now.

That's just it murnut, there's nobody investigating it? After spending three months going through every nook and cranny, we know what we know. The investigating (researchers) didn't bother since they saw already what saladfingers did way back in May and mid June. Mind you, Isaac hadn't come into the picture yet either but their minds were already made up. Consequently, the researchers in ufology know nothing and of course will never look into it now. They're all under the assumption that all drones including the Big Basin and Capitola are hoaxes.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 9th, 2007, 3:26pm

Then it is the UFO community's fault, that no one is investigating.

I cant believe that NONE of the top people will take this case on.

Because of Salad?

More likely that LMH has all the the evidence and she is NOT letting go of it for someone else to get all the glory and MONEY

The UFO communty is too divided, just the way the PtB wants it

Salad is no innocent but the Fault lies with the Community

Edit to add IMO
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:03pm

OK.. you want it breaking down into little chunks.. as you clearly aren't aware of what you are implying in your own post...

you said...

Quote:
In the process of promoting himself he used the screen name saladfingers. I simply saw an ulterior motive here.


Did you now? I just explained to you that it was just a name I used.. i didn't even expect anyone to notice me.

Quote:
As you already know, saladfingers is actually a very popular cartoon video series designed by another CGI artist called David Firth. So unless he knows Firth on a personal basis that's one thing but that name is being used to attract a bigger audience since people see the name saladfingers.


It actually isn't a VERY POPULAR cartoon.. it is popular.. but you ask most people and sadly they wont know what on earth you are on about. It is a pity because it is brilliant.

Now just read that last bit.. You are implying that I chose the name to attract a bigger audience.. that is PREMEDITATION that you are implying.. like I had this all planned out.

Don't just absently forget what you wrote yourself.

Quote:
Essentially, if he doesn't know Firth on a personal basis, which I do not believe he does based on a post of his then he purposely took on the name saladfingers for his own promotional and monatary reasons.


I did whathuh For whathuh Hello? Are you mad?

To promote? for money? I don't want, and have never sought promotion or money. How have I made money? Do you have proof? Or is this just something you are making up? Again.. you imply premeditation on my part!

Quote:
Also, if he doesn't know Firth he's infringing, not necessarily legally because I am not aware of Firth's protection on 'saladfingers' but certainly its a moral issue.


It is moral injustice to use the name from a cartoon I love and respect as a name on an internet forum?
Go tell that to the millions out there that use names such as Britney Spears.. Goofy.. Neo (from the matrix) oh my god... do you want a page of them?

The only reason I am known, is because of LMH and her silly mistake. I didn't ask for any of this.

But you imply that I premeditated all of it, and chose the name Saladfingers to gain a larger audience. It is looney tunes!

You know, if anything.. those that have heard of Saladfingers (Firths creation) would see my name and go ..ooo you like saladfingers? That is a cool cartoon.. to which I would reply yes.. it is wicked.

To those that haven't heard of it.. then maybe they might come across it and enjoy it as much as I have. If anything, i hope I have helped promote it. But it certainly had nothing.. zero.. zip to do with why I chose it as a name.

So don't come all over innocent like.. that you didn't accuse me of premeditating.. because you did. It is right there in black and white. Please.. I ask anyone else who has read this to confirm it. I don't see any other way of reading it.

Next.....

Quote:

Quote:saladfingers
Sept 5, 2007, 12:09pm, saladfingers wrote:I'll also add that video attracts the news far more.. even the papers strangely. The drones have been on TV.. my bloody animations! (Without any royalty or permission I might add!) Cheeky gits. Spain picked it up, and I was contacted by a Japanese station wanting them. But haven't heard off them since... they might get back some time soon though.

To which a member replied:
Quote:

Quote:member
Was the video they used clearly labelled as CGI? Pretty safe guess is no? How does it feel to be a hoaxer?

To this day, he has not responded to that member's post.

http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=cali1&action=display&thread=1188221089&page=8#1189019352


But you aren't quoting the whole post by numbers are you.. That is called 'quoting out of context'...

Numbers wrote...

Was the video they used clearly labelled as CGI? Pretty safe guess is no? How does it feel to be a hoaxer? I know, you did not intend to be one but that is the end result. Unintentional hoaxer. I guess it's not your fault though. If it hadn't been you it would have been someone else... like maybe Lev?

-------

He answered his own question. It was also, as far as I can tell within the context of the thread, a rhetorical question.. That means.. (unless you don't understand the concept) a question which doesn't require an answer.

I also do not agree with you, or numbers on this point.

A hoax is defined in the dictionary as 'Something that has been established or accepted by fraudulent means'. I have always been upfront as to the origin of my work. There is no deception. If you are going to use words.. at least check their meaning first please.

And do not quote out of context to suit your own agenda.


Quote:
Honestly, looking at all of my notes I just have so much to say and it would just take too long to mention it all.


You made notes? On me.. hellohuh i think you need to get a grip!



If i get time tonight, I will try and get through the questions you posted.. but honestly.. I don't have all the time in the world to play your silly games. THIS IS NOT A COURT. You are NOT a judge.. jury, or anything else.

Everything that have been asked, has been answered at one time or the other. People tend to ask the same questions over and over.. and I am not in the habit of repeating myself a million times.

So please.. you say you didn't accuse me of premeditation? Think again.. and think hard because I don't owe you any answers.. you can think what you want. But I will try and fill in the blanks for you.. so you can abuse me some more.. I hope you get such a thrill from all this.

How very very sad.

Kris

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:10pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:03pm, Saladfingers wrote:
OK.. you want it breaking down into little chunks.. as you clearly aren't aware of what you are implying in your own post...


You're not answering my questions. Once again you're simply side-stepping the real issue. Completely side-stepping. Were you once a politician? And do you know how to use the quote button?

QUOTE

RESPOND

QUOTE

RESPOND

QUOTE

RESPOND
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:12pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:03pm, Saladfingers wrote:
THIS IS NOT A COURT. You are NOT a judge.. jury, or anything else.

Oh yes I am and anyone who would ever write anything such as the above has a guilty conscience and something to hide. And that caps, that's anger.

And, I didn't quote out of context. I only quoted his questions since that's all he wanted answers for. Anything else was immaterial.

So here they are again.
Quote:
Quote:saladfingers
Sept 5, 2007, 12:09pm, saladfingers wrote:I'll also add that video attracts the news far more.. even the papers strangely. The drones have been on TV.. my bloody animations! (Without any royalty or permission I might add!) Cheeky gits. Spain picked it up, and I was contacted by a Japanese station wanting them. But haven't heard off them since... they might get back some time soon though.


To which a member replied:
Quote:
Quote:member
Was the video they used clearly labelled as CGI? Pretty safe guess is no? How does it feel to be a hoaxer?



Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:13pm

I can't believe this past few pages... shocked

If you have problems with Salad's CG creations, you're either:
a) true drone believer or, less likely
b) an envious fellow CG artist (remember Leviathan?).

Now, why would I say such thing?

Being on the fence, I still except the possibility that this case could be proven hoax. If so, CG hoax is not only the most probable, but IMO the only possible explanation. Models? Sure, try to model them without CG. If you manage, there's still CARET report, LAP, and so on. Retracing every murderer's step is common practice in any murder investigation. That's what I see in Salad's work, he's trying to retrace steps taken by hoaxer. How can this hurt if you can still except the possibility that this is a murder case... I mean, a hoax? It can't.

Does anyone on the fence object his work? No.
Pro-hoaxers? No.
Debunkers? Why even bother asking..

So now you know: you oppose his work 'cause you believe.
Isaac is alive! No need for further investigation, let's talk about implications of this being real!

Well, you're wrong. It's too soon for that.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:16pm

Since ATO has reminded me in a PM of a post I made awhile back, let me repost it again:

"On Saladfingers - this talented fellow proved his point ages ago - that using GCI technology he can REcreate something that closely resembles some thing that someone else created. He has now, however, moved into the arena of self promotion. The worst part of having his REcreations all over the internet is that those individuals who are just starting to research this and aren't familiar with the Saladfingers Saga are being mislead into thinking that the originals are absolutely CGI. This is not the case. While I respect his abilities, I question his judgment - if not his motives - as he is continuing to crank out drone "artwork". That's not called research, that's called advertising."

My last posts are totally consistent with this earlier sentiment, no conflict. My opinions have not changed. The situation has not changed.

Is this what we're reduced to? Choosing sides, picking a "winner"?

ATO, you accuse me of being too passive. Quite the contrary, I've fought many impassioned battles for a multitude of causes over my lifetime. What would you suggest is a better alternate to civil discussion? Is it time to bring out the tar and feathers? We've acknowledged the problem and suggested solutions. LMH and MUFON have been challenged by the members here, the media has been approached ..... and now we're battling with each other. Great.

IMHO the whole tone of this thread is turning counterproductive. Call me passive if you like, I think I'll sit it out until we move back into firmer ground. Points have been made on all sides, that should be enough to move on to the next challenge.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:17pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:13pm, nekitamo wrote:
I can't believe this past few pages... shocked

If you have problems with Salad's CG creations, you're either:
a) true drone believer or, less likely
b) an envious fellow CG artist (remember Leviathan?).


None of the above actually.

c)on the fence with a few drones, not on the fence with others.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:19pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:16pm, MarkM wrote:
ATO, you accuse me of being too passive.


I meant regarding this issue Mark. You know the pit falls. They're unnecessary.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:37pm

And you talk about me side stepping the issue! I find it quite telling how you ignore every point I made about you accusing me of premeditation. How dare you go on to accuse me of sidestepping, when you do the exact same thing.

No retraction?

I will get on to your 'pressing points' in due course.. but I'm not going to answer any of them while you refuse to acknowledge your own accusations..

Pot calling the kettle black... there is a lot of that going on.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:44pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:12pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Oh yes I am and anyone who would ever write anything such as the above has a guilty conscience and something to hide. And that caps, that's anger.

And, I didn't quote out of context. I only quoted his questions since that's all he wanted answers for. Anything else was immaterial.

So here they are again.


To which a member replied:




No.. the CAPS are to make the point clear. You are not a court.. you are not a judge and you are not a jury.

In your own little mind yes.. in actuality.. no.

So please.. let your accusations fly once more.. what am I guilty of? Please.. prey tell.. I am all ears.. this is entertaining. What do I have to hide? lol


Second point...

You said:

Quote:
And, I didn't quote out of context. I only quoted his questions since that's all he wanted answers for. Anything else was immaterial.


Quoting out of context means you did not include everything he said. You chose the bits that suited your post.

The points he asked were rhetorical.. do i really have to explain this again?

Keep going ATO... I have nothing to hide.. and I will give you an honest answer to everything you ask.. but don't sit there on your high horse making rubbish up about me.. mis quoting.. and implying premeditation on my part. It doesn't wash.. and your techniques are very transparent.

Kris
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:47pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:17pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
None of the above actually.

c)on the fence with a few drones, not on the fence with others.


There's no such thing.
If you believe in any part of this case being real, that's it - you believe.

ATO, you are not on the fence. You believe in drones. Everyone here knows that, don't we?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:50pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:44pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Keep going ATO... I have nothing to hide.. and I will give you an honest answer to everything you ask.. but don't sit there on your high horse making rubbish up about me.. mis quoting.. and implying premeditation on my part. It doesn't wash.. and your techniques are very transparent.Kris


Well, this conversation is over saladfingers because you have everything to hide or you would have answered the questions.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:53pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:47pm, nekitamo wrote:
There's no such thing.
If you believe in any part of this case being real, that's it - you believe.

That is not true whatsoever.
Quote:
ATO, you are not on the fence. You believe in drones. Everyone here knows that, don't we?

Where do you get that idea. It doesn't make any sense since there are 14 drones and Isaac. Can't someone believe in a few things, sit on the fence on a couple of others and not believe in the balance. What you said makes no sense to me.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:02pm

Right or wrong ATO is the judge and jury here.

Salad, You really don't have a right to be this disrespectful to the mod here.

Really I just want it to end, so I think Salad should be banned.

This IMO is the only solution albeit regretful
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:09pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 1:56pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Why should i waste what would be a considerable amount of my time on people that don't care. ATO is a prime example.

Weak excuse. There are many that want to hear your answers but I'm afraid that they're afraid to speak up except in my PM area since they are OMF members too.

And, no. I don't go into OMF anymore. No sense in reading their comments when they're outlook on such things is tweeked. I'm done there and I'm done with you so stop posting in the Isaac thread so we can bring it back to it's original state. If you've got anything more to say send it to my PM. I only want my questions answered, so outside of that, we're done here because to say nothing you've condemned yourself since that alone is an admission of guilt.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:11pm

"I think Salad should be banned."

With all due respect, I completely disagree.

Kris has not broken any rules. As far as rudeness goes, no side has the market cornered on that. This forum is for discussion. Mods are not judges, we are here to make certain that the ideas expressed are done so in a civil way. The day that I am told that I must ban someone who is doing nothing more than defending their position - especially when challenged - then you are asking that this forum be censored. That is the day that I cease being a participant.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:14pm

We are all entitled to disagree. Start banning everyone that doesn't agree with you and eventually you will be typing posts to yourself.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:14pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:53pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
That is not true whatsoever.

Where do you get that idea. It doesn't make any sense since there are 14 drones and Isaac. Can't someone believe in a few things, sit on the fence on a couple of others and not believe in the balance. What you said makes no sense to me.


So it's something like this: Chad's drone is fake, Tahoe one is true, Raj's images are faked, Stephen's are real, Ty is CG hoaxer... or any other possible combination.

Who's not making sense?
One (1) real image is all it takes for drones to be true.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:15pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:11pm, MarkM wrote:
"I think Salad should be banned."

Saladfingers said: Can you not see how pathetic your behaviour must seem to others? ATo.. if you really think that this is a proper way for an adult to behave then I think you should go see a therapist. You are paranoid to the point of lunacy! I pity the next person that you turn on. I hope everyone here doesn't have to suffer your fantasy.
Quote:
You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law.


The only thing I remember was pointing out his infringement. I never called him any names. He just committed defamation of character Mark but I let it slide because such things don't bother me, especially when someone doesn't know me.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:20pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:02pm, murnut wrote:
Right or wrong ATO is the judge and jury here.

I'll add this too, we are all judge and jury in here. I'm sure that everyone realizes how often each day we judge a picture or a video or even the words of another. We may not make mention of such but we all do it. So sure, you bet I'm a judge. We all are.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:22pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:14pm, nekitamo wrote:
Who's not making sense?
One (1) real image is all it takes for drones to be true.

How do you figure that when they were located in multiple cities?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:25pm

It can still stop right now. There is a road that only goes downhill. It takes more character to take the high road. The next few posts will be critical in determining our direction. I suggest that everyone take a break, think about things, go out in the yard and scream ... whatever it takes. We have nothing to gain and much to lose by fighting with each other.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:45pm

Here's a little character Marky. He's a little green but he's a character.

User Image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gNktI3AF4Q&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft5e80tRtPI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkMknZQ7Pak&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEe78Lv_Uxs&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btuEUP8ujQ8&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMG7ab6vSU4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAKQsfZqTiQ&mode=related&search=
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 9th, 2007, 6:04pm

hi all;on the language. has any one find anything new?I dont think that could be hoaxs.has any one checked some of the first languages?ugaric,chaldean,syretic,accadian,phoenician,aramic,hebrew,ashuric,arabic,sumerian,ghe'ez,amharic,farsi(persian).all coming from a language brought to this planet earth by(ET). I told you all that from my dreams the drones will cause a lot of confusion and that their may not be any conclusion one way or another. wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 9th, 2007, 6:07pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 5:45pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Here's a little character Marky. He's a little green but he's a character.


No need to be condescending. Your position is clear. This is "your" thread to moderate, apparently my input is neither welcome nor appreciated. I'm comfortable with the way I've conducted myself and am fairly confident that the members here understand my concerns. That's all that really matters.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 9th, 2007, 6:28pm

hi all ; we have all got along for quite some time . this has been quite a learning ezsperice for me. normaly when we have felt unease it was easy for us to take a break and come back to the task at hand with no problem. Ato i dont know saladfinger from no one ealse on this web site. you have always been afriend so has every one ealse. so as afriend can i ask you to let it go and any one ealse as far as that goes. remember aro you you said to me and others we are far apart from one another so computors cant exspress how we fell when we are typing. so again i ask saladfinger ato and whom ever let saladfinger be saladfinger and ato be ato. as long as no one are breaking rules. if i am wrong for asking this ,i will site back as always and wait on the calm not being mad at any one.peace to all. cool cool cool
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by LangLee on Sep 9th, 2007, 6:41pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 1:56pm, Saladfingers wrote:
I never finished the report, because I was being told that nothing I could do or say would prove the drones are CG.. so I thought.. sod it! Why should i waste what would be a considerable amount of my time on people that don't care. ATO is a prime example.

Look at this link. I gave up a whole day to put all this together. I did it to arm those without any knowledge of CG with a bit of a 101.

http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=cali1&action=display&thread=1184240982

Have you done anything for anyone like that? If I was you, I wouldn't bother either.. because you get attacked for it.



I clicked the link and read it........nope, still not even close.
The shape is there, but everything you pointed out still doesn't work, another miss as far as the Rajman pics are concerned.
Whatever you think you're doing has set this whole investigation back and I think that sucks big time. To most I bet that your stuff looks exactly like the pics, that would be those that just look at lines, nothing more.
This whole things has turned into a bad joke, just what some wanted I'm sure. Chicken shit investigators that are afraid to look into this because the pics are TOO CLEAR, well you know what, keep on looking at your blobs of light trying to make out some sort of shape you fools. Everyone has been asking for something like this for a long time, it's here, and it's been handled like a guy in Gorilla suit claiming to be BigFoot. I direct that at the so called best in the investigation field, you should all be ashamed of yourselves, every stinking one of you.
Then there's the CGI guys who's work is so weak, but since there are so many line lookers, they are loud and many, that now the pics are thought all to be CGI, thanks guys, your work sucks, and if you're half as smart as you think you are, you yourselves know you're not even close. The best thing you can do is to tell everyone that your stuff isn't close. Pride in good work is good, if you think you are you really can't be happy with the stuff you've rendered so far, your pride is misplaced.
If I've offended anyone.......tough, that's how I see things, and I bet I'm not alone. I just can't sit back anymore and let this crap go by without any comment.
Thanks for all of your help Saladbowl, Standoff Friedman, and Linda Me Holdthem, you've been useless.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by interocitor on Sep 9th, 2007, 6:55pm

This is exactly the agenda that Mr Salad and his Saladeaters used at OMF. Let me state it this way: If I remember correctly shortly after the drones appeared, Salad had a model and video already to go and posted to YouTube. This strikes me as odd. Modeling and animation take time. How was this accomplished? Mr. Salad seems to be very quick on the draw. He implies that he is from England or is it that he is just stationed in England. The background in his drone animation looked like an English Military Base and there was no indication in the animation itself that it was fake. This was elsewhere. Mr. Salad is exactly what the military would want to debunk the drones and if this is not the case then why does he feel it is his duty to show in much detail how CG can be used. We all know that CG can be used and I do not need to be further convinced that it can. Just because something can does not mean it is.

This gentleman and his friends are doing exactly what a working and paid government agent would be doing to debunk the drones and any future truly good UFO report. He must have access to a military base or else where did his backgrounds come from. He uses obvious psychological methods in his coercion of posters to his opinions. He use lies and innuendo to ridicule any who dare speak against him. Why would any individual do all this and invest the prodigious amount of time needed to model and animate what he has not been asked to model and animate. The reason is simple it is his Military Job to do so. It is his orders to do so and to allow this person to hijack all of ufology is crime. What has his work accomplished except driving away any that really may know the truth. Do you believe Isaac will be back? Do you believe all strange UFO photos are now finished and the devices have left the planet because the human race has declared them all CG. This would be the perfect cover for them. This Salad is a military/government operative that is making fool out of any who dare to believe that in this universe there is more than Humankind. Will you now change the name of UFO Casebook to CGI Casebook with Mr. Salad as it dictator and resident expert? Look at the best CG that the Movies have to offer and you will not find the likes of the original drone photos. Yes, look for yourself or be guided by the man with the hidden agenda. It is up to you. Research and seek the truth or be fed untruths by the likes of this deceiver.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by interocitor on Sep 9th, 2007, 7:15pm

It is not people that do not care that offend you Mr. Salad, it is people that do care about the truth in Ufology that offend you. These people will not give in to you as the sycophants at OMF have. What good is the good work done there when you always use the subtlety of your craft to undermine there efforts and come up with CG that would fool no one not even your commanding officer. I accuse you of being a military hack paid from day one and given the software, including specialized camera tracking software, to quickly produce your video to fool LMH and to make light of the witnesses who took these pictures. I do not believe you are a true expert in anything except disinformation. Your military fatigues are showing.

I challenge anyone to come up with a more complete and workable scenario as to why an individual would so vehemently want people to say this is CG and nothing more when most have agreed it could be. Why is it necessary for all to fall into lock step with you Mr. Salad. Do you get a raise in pay or to a higher rank. You here clearly use psychology and bulling tactics when you write about the poster and moderators here. I have seen you carefully avoid this at IMF. Is this because the likes of Fore, Dragonfire, and Shadow agree with you and do as you say. Their opinions are always a carbon copy of yours and I also know that you have tried to sell some illustrations to a French site. So just what is your agenda. Can you tell it without getting in trouble with your superiors? I doubt it! Who is asking you to prove anything? Who is accepting that you are the ultimate authority on Computer Graphics? Who is making it so worth your while to spend so much of your valuable time on this. Who does not recognize your soft arrogance in using such psychology in your posts. Who does not feel your need for vengeance against anyone who dares disagree with you and you are reading the words of one who knows you are the biggest fake in this entire episode.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 9th, 2007, 7:21pm

How do you really feel?

What is your feeling on LMH?

How is the group?

What is your proposal to fix the problem?

I would love to hear it

I hope you are well
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Sep 9th, 2007, 7:25pm

OK, its time for Isaac to release new info. We're starting to eat our own. shocked
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 9th, 2007, 7:31pm

Maybe Isaac has released more info and LHM is sitting on it

Would that surprise anyone?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 9th, 2007, 7:38pm

Oh, boy.
Let's stop this nonsense and return to the topic.

We were discussing this at OMF yesterday: have you noticed this detail in MUFON's report - Quote:
I suspect the Coast to Coast web site appearance was a trial run
before posting here in the Mufon CMS. The attached images files
from Coast to Coast read in the image file text' the name
'McKinley'. The same witness name above in the witness report.

I seriously doubt the 'Coast to Coast' people may even know
about this authenticity issue.

So, who's McKinley? Is it Chad?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 7:59pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 6:07pm, MarkM wrote:
No need to be condescending. Your position is clear. This is "your" thread to moderate, apparently my input is neither welcome nor appreciated. I'm comfortable with the way I've conducted myself and am fairly confident that the members here understand my concerns. That's all that really matters.


I wasn't condescending. I was being silly.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 9th, 2007, 8:01pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 7:25pm, drewlac wrote:
OK, its time for Isaac to release new info. We're starting to eat our own. shocked


LOL, That's cute Drew. I like that one.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 9th, 2007, 9:19pm

on Sep 9th, 2007, 8:01pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
LOL, That's cute Drew. I like that one.
now thats the ato i know. grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by LangLee on Sep 9th, 2007, 9:39pm

I'm just shocked and disappointed that investigators who sit on TV with their chest poked out, getting their 15 minutes, trying to talk over some debunking fool, on some weak clowns' talk show, could be intimidated into silence by idiots such as this. My God, what have we come to ?
Doing something like this takes a lot of resources, and one would not do something like this on one's own free of charge so to speak. My man here definitely has sponsors to generate so much work in so short time span, and it would seem a head start.
To so feverishly try to discredit these pics with laughable CGI aimed at the weak says something to me....... that we're really close with this one, so close they are spending money to discredit it. This has "Government" written all over it, foolishly spending gobs of money and so not getting your moneys worth, no one spends money worse than they do.
The reply about us eating our own, well those types are not my own.
My own seeks the truth, being right or wrong has no place with my own. If you're not wrong sometime you're not examining all the possiblities.
Seeking for personal financial gain and publicity has no place with my own. The truth won't be found by one, but by a joint effort by all. The truth is more important than any one, for it effects all.
My own doesn't require an admission from our Government that life exists elsewhere, hand holding not required, life elsewhere is simply fact.
My own seeks the truth about the level of involvement by our Governments........

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 9th, 2007, 9:49pm

i agree langlee. cool cool
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 9th, 2007, 11:09pm


http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=66ttbuo


We don't need to fight.

I will also add that I have made no money from anything I have done on the drones or UFOs in general. The only publicity I have got is probably bad publicity.. who needs that?
I do not hide who I am. I have nothing to hide. But like some here, I too have a strong opinion. Just because it is different, and not easy to come to terms with doesn't make me the enemy.

I have apologised.. many times now, that I have upset some, and I do understand your views, even if i don't completely agree with them.

I am not a government agent... I have a considerable distaste for the government in actual fact. That would actually be my worst nightmare. Sorry government if you are reading.. but you are sucking everyones freedoms away in the name of security.. it aint very nice, big or clever.

Ever noticed that if you watch the news, and you hear someone mention tightening security... if you swap the word for CONTROL... you have the real motive.

Anyway, I digress.

I want to try and work this out.. but so long as these wild theories about who what and why I am continue, we aren't going to end up anywhere but down bicker street.
I will happily open up a conversation with you ATO, or anyone. I don't bite as long as you are civil. It isn't much to ask.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh in the image. But I am just staggered at the allegations being made toward me.
Can we get past this? I am willing to try.

What more can I say?

Take care all,

Kris
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by badbob on Sep 9th, 2007, 11:23pm



........ respect ........ cool
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Sep 10th, 2007, 05:11am

What we truly need is for Ty, Stephen, Chad, Raj, and Isaac to come out of hiding and provide credible witness testimony. This is the missing link to all of this. As long as these important witnesses stay hidden there will be a shadow of doubt case upon this.

Now if there was only someone who could get in contact with each of these people....hhmmm....I wonder who that person is?? (sarcasm)


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by want2bleive on Sep 10th, 2007, 09:20am

on Sep 9th, 2007, 4:03pm, Saladfingers wrote:
OK.. you want it breaking down into little chunks.. as you clearly aren't aware of what you are implying in your own post...

again.. and think hard because I don't owe you any answers.. you can think what you want. But I will try and fill in the blanks for you.. so you can abuse me some more.. I hope you get such a thrill from all this.

How very very sad.

Kris


blah, blah, blah, my cg crap is better, blah, blah, more hot air....even more hot air.... blah, blah......

God help us, SaladF*** is here to push his crap, cg... Listen salad.. your stuff is NOT REAL... dahhh... you are a boring comercial in a good movie selling ginsu knives... you are here to divert attention... you should be wearing your "cause daddy didn't hugg me T-shirt"... If it's attention you're looking for... go stand out on a ledge.... I left OMF because I was just sick and tired of hearing from you....REALLY do you think you're that important, let me tell you, "you are not".... Now I'm considering leaving here also or just continuing to skip all of your post..... listen buddy, you and your cg cannot convince anyone it's real, you can not even come close to the BB ( really no comparrison), and it seems that you have BB envy lol ( you're yelling it out loud) ,,,, basically you are a JOKE to people who have seen the real deal... get a clue... All I keep hearing from you is blah, blah, cg, blah, blah......

and don't waste your time replying, I don't read your cg crap...... it's wasting my time....... and other's too.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by oljack666 on Sep 10th, 2007, 09:34am



We are attempting to bring the thread back to its normal state. Please do not post any more thoughts on the previous subject and let's go forward on the drones and Isaac and nothing more.

Thanks
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 10th, 2007, 09:58am

on Sep 10th, 2007, 09:20am, want2bleive wrote:
God help us, SaladF***** is here to push his crap, cg...


Wrong.

Quote:
Listen salad.. you stuff is not real... dahhh... you are a boring comercial in a good movie... you are here to divert attention... you should be wearing your "cause daddy didn't hugg me T-shirt"


Prove it isn't real. Show me method. Is your only proof because i told you so? Are you really that amazing to be able to tell the difference? I think that is arrogant.

Quite what 'daddy' has to do with it I don't know. Oooh, you are saying I don't get enough attention. lol. Well you go on believing that. I couldn't give a flying pair of dingos kidneys about attention. You take it or leave it. It is up to you. But personally, i ask that you give much greater credence to what I present, because it doesn't muddy the water.. it shows a direct, and realistic possibility. I do not want to hear any more of this.. a CG image can't come close. It does, it has.

Why do you want to stop reasonable research?

Atruebeliever actually prompted me to create that work. As she is so insistent that I don't answer everyones questions, then maybe i am making an effort to do so.

Here.. she wrote...
Quote:
And don't forget all of the fine details. You've got a ton of work ahead of you.

I put...
But I think it is looking pretty convincing personally.

She put...
Ummm, no. Not yet anyway. You have a long ways to go if you're trying to duplicate, which is what you would have to do in order to make it convincing.


So hey.. talk to those that ask me to do these things.

Quote:
... If it's attention you're looking for... go stand out on a ledge....


Gosh, quite the aggressive piece of work. Suggesting I top myself eh. Wow.. the UFO community needs people like you.

Quote:
I left OMF because I was just tired of hearing from you........ Now I'm considering leaving here also or just continuing to skip all of your post.....


You are welcome to skip all of my posts.. bye bye! If you aren't able to hold a discussion, or bring your dismay to me directly.. well.. if all you can do is run away, then what are you going to add to the discussion? Have some courage of your convictions Want2bleive. If you think it is real... then shout it at the top of your voice.. and then find some way of disproving my view, or proving yours. That is what this is all about!

Don't you want the truth?

Quote:
listen buddy, you and your cg cannot convince anyone, you can not come close to the BB, an it seems that you have BB envy lol,,,, basically you are a joke to people who have seen the real deal... get a clue...


It can't convince anyone huh? That is a very confident proclamation! I guess you must have spoken to everyone in the world that has seen it then huh? Or is it just your opinion?

If I am a joke, then why are people so worried? If my CG is so bad, and it can't come close or convince anyone.. why are you worried?

I have seen the real deal. To tell it accurately, as ATO said I saw it out of the corner of my eye. I don't know where she got that from, as I never said it. I was actually looking right in the direction of it at the time. That is how I have such a clear and vivid memory of it.

So don't talk to me about the real deal. I've seen it, and I know the reality. Now all I want is to find out what information out there should be believed, and what shouldn't be. Is that so wrong?

Kris

p.s. here is what I wrote about my sighting, in full.


Quote:
I've mentioned my personal experience before, and I know this is a bit off topic, but I just want to talk about it briefly, as I have been considering it after reading some things in here.

It is a very simple tale. I was looking out of my bedroom window (about 8 years ago I think) having a cigarette. I'd often do this, as I don't like smoking where I sleep. It would also give me a few minutes to relax, and lookup at the stars. Back then i was in the middle of the countryside, so loads of stars.. lovely!
Anyway, so there I was, doing my usual, when totally out of the blue, a square of light flew right over the house (well, about 5- 600 metres to the right of the house ) and over the horizon in what would have to be about a tenth of a second!
I mean it really was, blink and I'd have missed it, it was that fast!!

As fast as it was, it was still extremely clear. No trail, nothing, just a square light, as bright as a camera flash.

Now to the point i was considering. I had never really thought to work out how fast it was actually going before. So I did a little math.

The land is pretty flat to the point it disappeared, and I'd say it travelled about a mile in a tenth of a second. Honestly.

Sooo, if it travelled approx a mile in a tenth of a second, it travelled 10 miles in a second. 600 miles in a minute!!!

So down to the miles an hour... (drum roll please... dbdbdbdbdbd)

36000 miles an hour!!! THIRTY SIX THOUSAND MILES AN HOUR!

That would mean it could travel around the Earth and back again in about 50 minutes.


My conclusion is that man has not got the technology or science to achieve that, or at least not without ETs help. So to me this has proved the existence of ET, and an alien visit to this planet.
I also realise how lucky i am to have seen it. Unfortunately, every time I share this with friends, I get the very real feeling that they think I am just making it up, or saw a shooting star, airplane etc. Without someone else seeing the same thing, it is impossible to describe the very real moment.

I know it wasn't a big saucer floating past my window, but I think it was probably better. It exhibited a speed which could offer no other explanation... as close to proof that I could have ever hoped for.

I've also mentioned before that i have only ever read a single other case of what i saw. graham Birdsall, the late editor of UFO magazine (UK), saw and described the exact same thing, and more or less came to the same conclusion. I really need to look that article out. I've got tonnes of the mags though, so will take me a long time. Still, reading that about 5 years later was so good, because i had started to feel like maybe i just imagined it.

Anyway, sorry for the off topic post, but i really felt like writing about it. THIRTY SIX THOUSAND MILES AN HOUR... minimum 20000.

Amazing.



Please don't edit this ATO.. i understand why you did, but I don't think it helps much... sorry second edit... I thought you had editted want2bleives post as I saw that it had changed. But that was edited by himself.

Btw, I also wasn't having a go at you. I just thought you were trying to maintain order.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 10th, 2007, 10:45am

I'll actually add one more thing to this, and then i will leave you to do whatever it is you feel you ought to.

Those that don't like me, and are dismayed at the images I have created, I say this. You have to be coming from a biased view point.

The search for truth doesn't have bias. It either is or it isn't.

I am biased to the reality that this could be quite likely a big hoax, perpetrated by a CG artist, or group. But I also readily accept that I could be completely wrong. I feel strongly about my bias, but I am not convinced 100 percent. But I know that it is entirely possible. That is what I am trying to show.

I am not trying to prove it is CG.. full stop. I am trying to show that it is entirely possible. That we should not trust to hope.

God knows there is enough craziness out there, and false information as it is. If we can achieve a slice of truth on what is a cornerstone case, then it is a remarkable achievement.
I don't have anything bad to actually say about anyone.. I don't actually know you. Passion for the subject of UFOs is extremely encouraging, and I am so glad that we are not alone in the world.

But the truth is the core issue. We can believe everything, or we can believe nothing. But all of the shades in between are where all of the beautiful detail lies.

Truth is all that i ask. Not hope. Not dreams. Reality, not fiction. Is that such a wrong pursuit? We should all share that common goal, irrelevant of our further beliefs.

I don't want to believe. I want to know. Full stop.

Take care everyone, and i am sorry to those i upset. I do honestly mean that, and I hope you will accept it.

Kindest regards.

Kris
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DarkSky on Sep 10th, 2007, 11:11am

on Sep 10th, 2007, 10:45am, Saladfingers wrote:
I'll actually add one more thing to this, and then i will leave you to do whatever it is you feel you ought to.

Those that don't like me, and are dismayed at the images I have created, I say this. You have to be coming from a biased view point.

The search for truth doesn't have bias. It either is or it isn't.

I am biased to the reality that this could be quite likely a big hoax, perpetrated by a CG artist, or group. But I also readily accept that I could be completely wrong. I feel strongly about my bias, but I am not convinced 100 percent. But I know that it is entirely possible. That is what I am trying to show.

I am not trying to prove it is CG.. full stop. I am trying to show that it is entirely possible. That we should not trust to hope.

God knows there is enough craziness out there, and false information as it is. If we can achieve a slice of truth on what is a cornerstone case, then it is a remarkable achievement.
I don't have anything bad to actually say about anyone.. I don't actually know you. Passion for the subject of UFOs is extremely encouraging, and I am so glad that we are not alone in the world.

But the truth is the core issue. We can believe everything, or we can believe nothing. But all of the shades in between are where all of the beautiful detail lies.

Truth is all that i ask. Not hope. Not dreams. Reality, not fiction. Is that such a wrong pursuit? We should all share that common goal, irrelevant of our further beliefs.

I don't want to believe. I want to know. Full stop.

Take care everyone, and i am sorry to those i upset. I do honestly mean that, and I hope you will accept it.

Kindest regards.

Kris


http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=66ttbuo

And once again Salad, you have posted a pic without clearly watermarking it as "MOCK UP".

I would have more sympathy for you if you had confined all your works to a single website (named something like) "DroneRecreations.com" as opposed to your releases into the World Wild Web. As it is, any debunker can misrepresent your hi-res material as real, then "expose" it as CG. Potentially confusing a LOT of people before the true origins were exposed.

Your motive might be pure, but your method has done nothing but muddy the investigation from day one.

DarkSky


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 10th, 2007, 11:33am

As it is, any CG hoaxer can misrepresent his hi-res material, and "propogate" it as real.

Quite honestly.. I thought that was marked quite clearly, and my point made in big black ink. If it causes some to investigate its origin, and wonder if it is real, then it has made its point, and I see no reason for any more images from myself.

The crux of this case, is that it is not proven real. It could be one of 3 possibilities. Real, CG or model.

The dismissal by the believers as to a possible CG origin is, quite frankly obscene. I am afraid i will not offer you an apology for this image, as much as it upsets you.

But I respect your opinion, unfortunately i cannot agree with it.

Kris





Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 10th, 2007, 12:06pm

Intentionally or not salad you are hijacking this thread

Okay, you are a nice guy...now please stop this nonsense and contribute something worthwhile

There is no work going on here and whether you intended it or not is not the point, it is the outcome.

Can you see my point?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 10th, 2007, 12:34pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 09:34am, Atrueoriginall wrote:
We are attempting to bring the thread back to its normal state. Please do not post any more thoughts on the previous subject and let's go forward on the drones and Isaac and nothing more.

Thanks


I have to agree with ATO here.

I do not have to agree with the Moderator's personal position 100% of the time, but I do respect the Moderator 100% of the time. I believe we should all keep this in mind.

Maybe this side issue should be moved to a new "How I love to hate CGI but I can't stop watching it" thread. grin

Now, may we drone on? wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 10th, 2007, 12:38pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 11:33am, Saladfingers wrote:
As it is, any CG hoaxer can misrepresent his hi-res material, and "propogate" it as real.


This is what you in effect have done with all of your creations. Maybe not in entirety because you have relied on other people to misrepresent and propagate them onto the web and the media thereby insulating you from the responsibility. You probably knew all along that would happen. Wasn't that the plan? Who did you say you worked for?


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 10th, 2007, 1:53pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 12:34pm, Marvin wrote:
Maybe this side issue should be moved to a new "How I love to hate CGI but I can't stop watching it" thread. grin

Now, may we drone on? wink


AGREED. rolleyes
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 10th, 2007, 2:01pm

This report, from Nuforc, sounds like it came from a child. Could he be describing the BB drone?
Quote:
Occurred : 3/31/2000 14:00 (Entered as : 3/31/00 2:00p.m.)
Reported: 3/31/2000 20:00
Posted: 3/21/2003
Location: West Nyack, NY
Shape: Other
Duration:15 seconds
So I was playing basketball with my freinds and I saw a flying object in the sky. It was very bright and had three cicles and a sharp point at the end. It was on a diaganel and just disappeared!

I was playing basketball with my freinds. I was going to take a shot. When I looked up I saw a very brigt object. It was pure white. It had three white circles and had a very pointy end. There was only 1.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 10th, 2007, 2:07pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 2:01pm, Latitude wrote:
This report, from Nuforc, sounds like it came from a child. Could he be describing the BB drone?


Either BB or another configuration. Sounds about right. Only, the Chad and Rajman drones look a bit more "white" than BB.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 10th, 2007, 2:16pm

Murnut...

I really don't think I am hijacking this thread. I have tried to apologise more than once, as i don't want any of this to continue. It does no good to anything.

But I didn't turn this topic on to me.. ATO did. She even said.. and it would seem it has been edited out.. that 'I AM THE TOPIC'. That was the moderator that said that.

I am sure everyone is feeling warm and happy. 'We can all gang up on Kris and make him feel sh*tty. Overwhelm him with accusations. Bully him into 'going away'.
It has to be that, because no other solution would make them happy. Am I right? Of course I am.

I've still not had a retraction for the claim that I was premeditating this whole thing. Totally forgotten.

Question.. who moderates the moderator?

MArvin.. gladly move one.. and get the work going on again here.


Latitude, I am self employed.

You seem to think i premeditated everything too. I simply did not. Show me some solid evidence that hundreds.. or thousands have been turned away by my work. This accusation is riding on opinion. Not one of you can back it up.

You know, the fact that i am here, and trying to answer your questions, and quite frankly rude accusations surely says something?

Sadly, there is little to no point in me saying much else, because everything I write is ignored. You don't want answers. You just want to abuse me, and carry on the accusations.. safe in the comfort of your group.

I truly hope that this website isn't representative of the wider community. Anger, hate, aggression, loathing, bullying, judging, and it might as well be execution.
You know what, if I knew the aliens who visit us.. I'd tell them not to bother getting out of their space ships.. because those that want to see you are simply not ready.

No doubt they would say to me.. ahhh, you're the one who made people think we were CG models.

Guilty as charged your honours... but you never managed to give us any proof in nearly 100 years.

Yes, said the alien, sorry about that. We kind of got into this routine of turning up in remote parts of the world where only one person is about. Although we're trying to do something about that. We were over Stratford upon Avon the other week. The bloody gravity drive broke down. Quite embarressing in front of all those people.

Yes, I said, i saw that. Someone posted it on the internet.

Did they?? He replied. xxxx it! Bloody cheap cloaking devices. One radar and we're as naked as Lee Majors in the bath.

Well it happens I said.

You know what really bothers me Kris, he said. It is these xxxx military bases your governments make us stay at. Grey walls, no windows, and the toilets stink. Not only that but they are in the middle of no where!
We come 98 million miles to sit in a concrete box 5 miles underground.
Go into space they said.. visit other worlds they said. A glamourous lifestyle.. booze.. birds.. disected cows. I don't know.. i knew I should have taken up plumbing. There is some good money in that ya know..

yes I said, rolling my eyes.

smiley

Sorry.. going off on one.. I had to send my mind off into sharp relief.
I was perhaps being hard on you all, as I know you are upset with what you feel i have done. But what is done is done. I'm not going to waste my life away saying sorry, and then being attacked again, then answering back, then saying sorry... It is slippery road, as MarkM said.

The only reason I am even on this forum is because ATO left OMF, and didn't allow me to talk to her there. What choice did I have? I had to come here you know. If you were attacked.. you would defend yourself wouldn't you?

Anyway. bye bye. I do actually have things to do outside of this, and it takes quite a while to type these messages.

Night night

Kris


p.s. In fact, if you have anything more to say about this.. then please PM me. Much easier, and everyone else can just get on with whatever they are doing.

Thanks

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by onthefence55 on Sep 10th, 2007, 3:04pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 2:16pm, Saladfingers wrote:
I really don't think I am hijacking this thread.

It's clear that this thread will be about you until either you get satisfaction or the admin locks it.

You still don't get it, put yourself in the complainers shoes and this is what you've submitted:

User Image


Quote:
Quite honestly.. I thought that was marked quite clearly,

As an artist, you refuse to defile your works with a real watermark so that it cannot be used for nefarious purposes. Your link on tinypic.com is undeletable, your fakes have now placed side by side with all other alleged UFO pictures. This literally is probably a turning point in UFOlogy and that change angers some. The following image is what people were expecting to see when you placed your work in the public domain, see what a real watermark is supposed to look like:

User Image


Quote:
p.s. In fact, if you have anything more to say about this.. then please PM me.


You want the last word? No one is going to let you spill pages of public excuses without publicly responding.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 10th, 2007, 3:32pm

Sorry onthefence, I was simply backed in to a corner, and felt outraged. My opposition is angry, but i am supposed to just sit back and take every bit of it. I reacted, and in my state of mind, I wasn't thinking about watermarks.

I'm sorry for the mess. I don't want the last word at all. Anyone can have the last word. That is fine.

As way of an apology...

I have a wealth of work that i have done over the last few months, and it needs putting into the public domain. No I'm not talking about CG drones. But certainly the work i did to understand the images. A very good composite of the primer in a very large format. All sorts of things.

I am going to sort through it all, organise it, and post it somewhere for everyone to have access to it.

Hopefully it will be of use to anyone who is actually doing investigation.

Maybe that will make up for some of the hard feeling.



Go on.. some one else have a go at me...

Kris
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 10th, 2007, 3:43pm

[quote author=Saladfingers link=board=drone&num=1188266784&start=448#29 date=1189451776]Murnut...



Question.. who moderates the moderator?

Answer: WE do! All members here throw in good will, and if the moderators didn't respond the way they've done so far, there would be close to no members left in this forum.

Some are already scared from posting throughout this personal fight, and that is sad to see.

Anyone HAD to see this coming, but to openly fight in a forum like it's a childs playground is arrogance toward members of this forum, and should have been held private, as it has no relavance to the thread at all.

I certainly hope, that the members lost on this, reconsider and join in in the greatest adventure in time, and disregard this incident as a single event.

VonStern


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 10th, 2007, 3:49pm

Kris

What did you expect when you came here?

I told you what would happen, and I asked you not to do it.

My new advice is to back to OMF, where you will not be attacked

I say this because I am your friend


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by GForce on Sep 10th, 2007, 5:33pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 3:32pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Go on.. some one else have a go at me...

Kris


Kris that's the wrong attitude to have. I don't think you should attack or be attacked personally. This is a forum and we should be able to debate on the merits or give our opinions or theories on any given topic. The problem is some people have been fighting and searching for answers. And when so many hoaxes are flying around it casts a dark shadow on all evidence. It makes it almost impossible to discern real from fake. CG makes it worse when it's used to perpetrate a hoax. Or is used to show how it could have been faked.


Kris what you do you do very well. The problem is that anyone who believes in UFOs are thought of as nuts by skeptics and debunkers. And as we search for hard evidence we're faced with hoaxes from those who wish to play games or to stroke their own ego. It was bad enough dealing with fake photo's or videos. But now with CG everyone who's a skeptic will scream HOAX! It makes an up hill battle even tougher. Personally I have no problem with CG being used to discredit fakes. I do have a problem with it being used to create a fake.

That's why I believe so many here are giving you a tough time. I just think we all should tone it down a notch. There's so much verbal crap floating around it's like watching a presidential debate. A lot of words with little meaning. Just my two cents! Dan
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 10th, 2007, 6:58pm

I have thrown in some new stuff at the Magazine:

http://vonstern.homepage.dk/Magazine.html

Feel free to debate the possibilities of this assumption.

VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 10th, 2007, 7:00pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 5:33pm, GForce wrote:
Kris that's the wrong attitude to have. I don't think you should attack or be attacked personally. This is a forum and we should be able to debate on the merits or give our opinions or theories on any given topic. The problem is some people have been fighting and searching for answers. And when so many hoaxes are flying around it casts a dark shadow on all evidence. It makes it almost impossible to discern real from fake. CG makes it worse when it's used to perpetrate a hoax. Or is used to show how it could have been faked.


Kris what you do you do very well. The problem is that anyone who believes in UFOs are thought of as nuts by sceptics and debunkers. And as we search for hard evidence we're faced with hoaxes from those who wish to play games or to stroke their own ego. It was bad enough dealing with fake photo's or videos. But now with CG everyone who's a sceptic will scream HOAX! It makes an up hill battle even tougher. Personally I have no problem with CG being used to discredit fakes. I do have a problem with it being used to create a fake.

That's why I believe so many here are giving you a tough time. I just think we all should tone it down a notch. There's so much verbal crap floating around it's like watching a presidential debate. A lot of words with little meaning. Just my two cents! Dan


Ok, last post, then I’m going.. god i can hear the cheers. I agree, and thank you for that, I hear your words. Although, I was only making light of things. I'm sorry to all those I attacked, I'm sorry if my images have caused you, or the wider community grief, and I’m sorry for anything for which I wont be able to answer to because I have gone.

My final message is this.

The world has changed, but the fundamental principle behind a hoax remains. As MarkM said, CG is the new wheel hub being tossed through the sky.
What I have actually done, is irrelevant, however big and bad it may seem right now. The drones case is but one of many, and its complexity does not make it any more real than a film, book, or computer game.
As complex as it seems, and implies, there is actually no indication that the evidence such as the primer or the CARET documents have any real complexity, only implied complexity. In the primer, there is no sign of advanced mathematical relations. It does not have anything in it that can be pointed at to say yes! This shows advanced thinking!. It is aesthetically pleasing though.

The drones.
Photos mean almost nothing these days. Irrelevant of what I have done, it changes nothing. Images cannot be trusted. Period. They are merely indicative of what someone saw, or claims they saw.
The job of the ufologist is no more difficult, because it has always been the same. The water is muddy. Full stop. It was never clean in the first place.
Now as 11thAugust is doing on OMF, he is contacting specialists in photo analysis, and specialists who use processes to determine if an image is real or CG. This is the kind of work that should be going on. My contribution is a good, comparative image, that can be used as control. We know that it is CG, and we have that fully verified. But hopefully (and I need to speak to him about this) he won't tell the specialist which is which. That way no bias can be brought into the results.

So my work in combination with others will hopefully allow for a cleaner water, and that hasn't been possible before. You can't run these tests on a photo of a wheel hub.

Another thing. Perhaps it is time to force LMHs hands as to releasing the rest of the HiRes scans. She now has no excuse.

Her original reason was because they could be used to create another hoax. I never quite understood that excuse. If she can release one, she can release them all. A near accurate model and render can be produced with what is out there, so she cannot use that excuse anymore. It has no bearing.
So I suggest to someone that they contact LMH, and present this to her. I would do it, but I doubt she will talk to me. Retaining evidence is unforgivable.

I know there is a very big hatred of the CG argument, and CG as a whole, but you have to consider, that perhaps the reason why so many have been turned away from the case, is because the CG argument is a very good one. It didn't need me to tell them. In fact, I read a lot of remarks which said that they were considered CG, before I even decided to join OMF. Written before I’d even heard of it.
The difference, is that I set out to see if they were right. Who would have known it would be such a can of worms. Not me. Again, sorry.

I will just make sure one point is known. I did do pre-work before I joined OMF. I saw the Chad images, and decided to have a go, my own little investigation. I felt they looked ok for the time spent on them, and so I thought they were worth sharing. So yes, that work was done before I joined OMF. I created the Youtube account a few hours later, as I left that animation rendering while I mowed the lawn.

The airbase.. there is nothing sinister about that.. yes I do have access to an airbase...

Cosford!

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/

and the photo was taken here (although there is anew builing there now, the brick one seen in the video) p.s. click on aireal button on the left.

http://maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Point.ss6qcngt6kvp_UFO%255fcross%255fphoto%255ftaken%255fhere___&encType=1


And I tell you what.. It was pretty boring by all accounts. Some cool stuff though, but you can't fill a day at the place. (See.. nothing sinister!)

I haven't used any matchmove software, and all the backdrops on youtube are photographs. My setup is not really that big or complex.

Anyway, there you go. Ignore it, or take something from it. I can't say that I haven't done harm, but I also don't think the realm of Ufology can get much worse.

So long as there are blind believers, sensationalist reporters, non-investigative journalists, and a climate of paranoia, the subject of UFOs will remain stuck in the rut it is now.

If you want to change the way it is perceived, and create a credible, strong field of research, then it is time to shun those I just mentioned. Making money from UFOs is the road to ridicule. Making a religion from Aliens and UFOs is the road to ridicule.

All that is needed is to identify, and enable a strong series of very credible tests. Reliable research. Verifiable witnesses. Good documentation.
It will take time to make these changes, but if we start that change, maybe we can change the perceptions of the world at large. If you want disclosure, you are going to need a hell of a lot of people to do it, and not just those interested now. We need millions to stand up and notice, maybe billions.

It is time for a changing of the guard, and a rebranding of the way Ufology is handled. All of this can only come through co-operation.

Listen, I’m sorry everyone. From the bottom of my heart.. I am sorry.

Peace.. be well, and good luck for the future.. interesting and dangerous times are ahead of us. I hope we all make it through.


Kris

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 10th, 2007, 7:09pm

Kris I strongly agree with G-force Thats what forums are all about to argue and discuss your subject sometimes if it is not a popular you just have to take the flack to test your theories.
Simply put I wouldnt leave the forum your point is as valid as the proof that you can provide and should be discussed. You quite simply may show us something we missed the people that dont agree can simply ignore and not respond to your posts.
Do want you feel but I recommend you stay Bro, no one here really wishs you to leave.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Sep 10th, 2007, 7:19pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 7:00pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Another thing. Perhaps it is time to force LMHs hands as to releasing the rest of the HiRes scans. She now has no excuse.

Her original reason was because they could be used to create another hoax. I never quite understood that excuse. If she can release one, she can release them all. A near accurate model and render can be produced with what is out there, so she cannot use that excuse anymore. It has no bearing.
So I suggest to someone that they contact LMH, and present this to her. I would do it, but I doubt she will talk to me. Retaining evidence is unforgivable.


I fully agree with this statement. ugh, now were fighting for disclosure from LMH rolleyes
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by LangLee on Sep 10th, 2007, 7:29pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 7:09pm, Razor wrote:
Kris I strongly agree with G-force Thats what forums are all about to argue and discuss your subject sometimes if it is not a popular you just have to take the flack to test your theories.
Simply put I wouldnt leave the forum your point is as valid as the proof that you can provide and should be discussed. You quite simply may show us something we missed the people that dont agree can simply ignore and not respond to your posts.
Do want you feel but I recommend you stay Bro, no one here really wishs you to leave.


No, he doesn't have to leave, but he should kill that link to his distorted BB Drone CGI.
The dimensions are off dude,you know what I'm talking about too. There is no detail,shorten your arms now, you don't deserve all of the pats on the back you're giving yourself, you ain't all that.
All you're doing is taking advantage of those with less discerning eyes, trying to build some sort of fan club for yourself Saladbar, that in itself is dispicable.

By the way everyone, my sister is going to Capitola for me this coming weekend. She is going to try her best to find the location that the pics were taken. I will keep all posted, we wll be in touch as she searches.
The pics are in the hands of people that are in the motion picture camera industry, in NY, Calif., and Munich Germany.
As a test I sent on pic of Salads BB, I was told, and I had to laugh, "these things are unusual, but we're not stupid, we won't be looking at that one."

Saladbar, that's how you investigate something.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 10th, 2007, 7:30pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 7:09pm, Razor wrote:
Kris I strongly agree with G-force Thats what forums are all about to argue and discuss your subject sometimes if it is not a popular you just have to take the flack to test your theories.
Simply put I wouldnt leave the forum your point is as valid as the proof that you can provide and should be discussed. You quite simply may show us something we missed the people that dont agree can simply ignore and not respond to your posts.
Do want you feel but I recommend you stay Bro, no one here really wishs you to leave.


Kind words, but i'm not entirely sure that last sentence is entirely true lol.. but a nice sentiment all the same.

Listen, I'll keep my account open.. but I am not going to do any arguing or anything like that. If someone tries to bait, I will ignore it.

My account will stay open purely for the sake of sharing information. Anything I have that might be useful to either side of the fence I will make sure that UFOCB gets it too.
But really.. i will leave everyone to it as a whole.

I hope that is ok ATO. To you I offer the greatest apology, and hope we can one day work things out and see eye to eye.

Night night.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:02pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 6:58pm, VonStern wrote:
I have thrown in some new stuff at the Magazine:

http://vonstern.homepage.dk/Magazine.html

Feel free to debate the possibilities of this assumption.

VonStern


Very cool page I have a friend that has defined the design parameters for a much simular system I think you and he might have fun discussing this some.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:08pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:02pm, Razor wrote:
Very cool page I have a friend that has defined the design parameters for a much simular system I think you and he might have fun discussing this some.


I would welcome that, at any time!

VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:27pm

I will send his address to you via PM on this board He is a brilliant scientist and a wonderful individual send him a mail and tell him I gave the address to you and that you would like to discuss propulsion systems with him I am pretty sure he will be thrilled to speak with you. It is my understanding that his work is a plasma drive design. Ok check your PM his name is Bluespider by the way.

OMG ATO is gonna kill me I have this topic so far off subject SSSSOOOORRRYYYYY ATO.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:34pm

Kris - I found your post to be well thought out, reflective, and respectful. I believe that you're sincere. I hope that you'll reconsider your membership here.

I may not like what has happened and the way that the dynamic has changed, but I understand the whys a wherefores of it. I'm also smart enough to make up my own mind about things, I don't need anyone to tell me how to interpret things, no matter how strong or brilliant the argument may be.

For the record, while my artists eye can definitely tell the difference between CGI and a "real" photo, I think that your work is excellent. You'll go far in your field and deservedly so.

Again, I appreciate the gracious post and hope that everyone will follow that tone in their future postings.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:35pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:27pm, Razor wrote:
OMG ATO is gonna kill me I have this topic so far off subject SSSSOOOORRRYYYYY ATO.


Execution is not one of the functions of a moderator wink.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:43pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 6:58pm, VonStern wrote:
I have thrown in some new stuff at the Magazine:

http://vonstern.homepage.dk/Magazine.html

Feel free to debate the possibilities of this assumption.

VonStern

Quote:
If this power can be harnessed by NANO grids, embedded in the surface of the housing, attachments could be hold together (and onto) the rings by magnetic differencies due to current changes inside the superconductors, you not only have the antigravity, but also the propulsion system. A silent and VERY powerful machinery, yet at the same time not very power consuming.


This is a sound concept Vonstern and I think OTF mentioned earlier that the, “Rusted” parts could be gold or some other similarly conductive substance. While it certainly appears plausible I don’t think it’s the same as what (is implied) the Drones are using. I say this because it flies in the face of nearly everything Isaac said. He specifically said that the anti-gravity device held everything in place with the use of RSR. And although he never said that the inventory photo and the anti-gravity device were directly related he DID say that the thing that caught his eye with the Drones was the fact that it used the executable, “Language”.

This executable language is evident on the anti-gravity device and on the Big Basin drone on the paddle connected to the main ring. The main ring is in turn evident in the Isaac inventory photo which would certainly suggest that Isaac meant that the Drones were powered by the anti-gravity device and this is where the correlation lies and explains why they were both contained in his release of documents. This also explains why he went to the lengths he did to try and clarify the subjects which he did, as much as he did, (i.e. LAP, A1 device etc.)

So if you accept your theory I feel you must also accept that Isaac released fake documents. (And dare I say it, grin this would raise the question of how hard an image of the Drones would be to replicate/reproduce as Isaac obviously managed it with the inventory photo.)

And if you accept Isaac as real then the Drones are held in place by the anti-gravity device (RSR) which also powers the craft, then wouldn’t this directly contradict your theory?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by r0ni on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:53pm

All these rings gets me thinking about this clip:

http://richardlalancette.blogspot.com/2007/09/demonstration-video-of-mobious-ring.html

peace..
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:59pm

We know Mufon is not willing to do a proper investigation of the drones for one reason or another. But how about some other UFO organizations? I sent an email to Dr Greer's Disclosure.org a couple of weeks ago and never heard back. How about NUFORC and Peter Davenport? What are some feelings on him and his organization?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:02pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:35pm, MarkM wrote:
Execution is not one of the functions of a moderator wink.


Oh good maybe im safe. wink
Has anyone been able to find what the propusion system these drones are using Mark ? I havent been able to keep up much with this thread. I saw an explanation on Von Stern's site but has that been determined to be the actually technology?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:24pm

Von Stern cool you are still here the propulsion sytem you have shared with us on your website, has that been determined to be the power source for the drones and your work is excellent by the way.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:26pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:43pm, DrDil wrote:
This is a sound concept Vonstern and I think OTF mentioned earlier that the, “Rusted” parts could be gold or some other similarly conductive substance. While it certainly appears plausible I don’t think it’s the same as what (is implied) the Drones are using. I say this because it flies in the face of nearly everything Isaac said. He specifically said that the anti-gravity device held everything in place with the use of RSR. And although he never said that the inventory photo and the anti-gravity device were directly related he DID say that the thing that caught his eye with the Drones was the fact that it used the executable, “Language”.

This executable language is evident on the anti-gravity device and on the Big Basin drone on the paddle connected to the main ring. The main ring is in turn evident in the Isaac inventory photo which would certainly suggest that Isaac meant that the Drones were powered by the anti-gravity device and this is where the correlation lies and explains why they were both contained in his release of documents. This also explains why he went to the lengths he did to try and clarify the subjects which he did, as much as he did, (i.e. LAP, A1 device etc.)

So if you accept your theory I feel you must also accept that Isaac released fake documents. (And dare I say it, grin this would raise the question of how hard an image of the Drones would be to replicate/reproduce as Isaac obviously managed it with the inventory photo.)

And if you accept Isaac as real then the Drones are held in place by the anti-gravity device (RSR) which also powers the craft, then wouldn’t this directly contradict your theory?


Thanks, DrDil.

On the contrary, the "Antigravity Device" as mentioned in the Caret documents might just be what I was referring to, a "Core" inside the main ring. That would explain the similarity of a "PIG". Once inside a strong "Field", magnetic, if this holds water, it is the conductor of emitted energy provided by the main ring.

I'll get you for this, I'm loosing sleep tonight over this..has to get up in half an hour...and I'm not in bed yet! grin grin grin

--VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:29pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:24pm, Razor wrote:
Von Stern cool you are still here the propulsion sytem you have shared with us on your website, has that been determined to be the power source for the drones and your work is excellent by the way.


I bumped this to get VonStern's attention.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:36pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:29pm, Razor wrote:
I bumped this to get VonStern's attention.


No, it is not prooved, that the propulsion system I referred to are the same, but it's highly likely.

True evidence can only be presented if we are in posession of the artefacts. Which we are not.

But it's an educated guess.

--VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:38pm

From looking at your work I think it is a pretty good educated guess, great work VonStern congratulations.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:46pm

VonStern I think Bluespiders anti-Gravity drives are based on practical applications I am not sure if he is aware of the drone theory you may have to brief him on the discussion.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:50pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:46pm, Razor wrote:
VonStern I think Bluespiders anti-Gravity drives are based on practical applications I am not sure if he is aware of the drone theory you may have to brief him on the discussion.


I have done so. He's probably reading my Magazine by now. wink

--VonStern

Edit: I have had more than 50 unique hits tonight!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:54pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:43pm, DrDil wrote:
And if you accept Isaac as real then the Drones are held in place by the anti-gravity device (RSR) which also powers the craft, then wouldn’t this directly contradict your theory?


Actually, I don't think Isaac said that the A1, A2 and A3 went to the drones specifically. It mentioned craft. the A2 and the A3 look like they would go on the inside walls of a ROUND craft with the pair of anti-gravity generators in the middle.

The rings on the floor of the hangar, and the linguistics primers were "of the drones" but I don't think it ever said anything about A1, A2 and A3 being part of the drones. The alien symbols on them are the same, yes... same race, same language. Not, necessarily for the same "craft"
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 10th, 2007, 10:00pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:54pm, castles4me wrote:
Actually, I don't think Isaac said that the A1, A2 and A3 went to the drones specifically. It mentioned craft. the A2 and the A3 look like they would go on the inside walls of a ROUND craft with the pair of anti-gravity generators in the middle.

The rings on the floor of the hangar, and the linguistics primers were "of the drones" but I don't think it ever said anything about A1, A2 and A3 being part of the drones. The alien symbols on them are the same, yes... same race, same language. Not, necessarily for the same "craft"


Thats great have fun with it maybe Spider can help also I am pretty sure your work will interest him.

Hey Castles4me thats some pretty good input from you too Thanks
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Sep 10th, 2007, 11:04pm

on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:34pm, MarkM wrote:
Kris - I found your post to be well thought out, reflective, and respectful. I believe that you're sincere. I hope that you'll reconsider your membership here.

I may not like what has happened and the way that the dynamic has changed, but I understand the whys a wherefores of it. I'm also smart enough to make up my own mind about things, I don't need anyone to tell me how to interpret things, no matter how strong or brilliant the argument may be.

For the record, while my artists eye can definitely tell the difference between CGI and a "real" photo, I think that your work is excellent. You'll go far in your field and deservedly so.

Again, I appreciate the gracious post and hope that everyone will follow that tone in their future postings.


Very much agreed! SF has done work that proves to me that CGI is out of the question, even though some of the pictures he has produced are very good! And much better than I thought capable of...

And isn't one of the biggest questions: "If it can't be reproduced, then it very well could be real?" All SF tried to do, for whatever reason, is reproduce the original... Isn't that part of the process?

Just my thoughts!
Newt
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 11th, 2007, 12:10am

on Sep 10th, 2007, 11:04pm, newtothis wrote:
Very much agreed! SF has done work that proves to me that CGI is out of the question, even though some of the pictures he has produced are very good! And much better than I thought capable of...

And isn't one of the biggest questions: "If it can't be reproduced, then it very well could be real?" All SF tried to do, for whatever reason, is reproduce the original... Isn't that part of the process?

Just my thoughts!
Newt


So I guess that makes Salad our accidental hero? laugh Ha ha. He set out to make this case a hoax and ended up providing evidence to the contrary. Oh man, that's rich! grin


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 11th, 2007, 02:15am

on Sep 10th, 2007, 9:54pm, castles4me wrote:
Actually, I don't think Isaac said that the A1, A2 and A3 went to the drones specifically. It mentioned craft. the A2 and the A3 look like they would go on the inside walls of a ROUND craft with the pair of anti-gravity generators in the middle.

The rings on the floor of the hangar, and the linguistics primers were "of the drones" but I don't think it ever said anything about A1, A2 and A3 being part of the drones. The alien symbols on them are the same, yes... same race, same language. Not, necessarily for the same "craft"


I wrote this a couple of paragraphs before as I knew it would be mentioned so I tried to clarify my thought processes as to how I arrived at the conclusion.

And although he never said that the inventory photo and the anti-gravity device were directly related he DID say that the thing that caught his eye with the Drones was the fact that it used the executable, “Language”.

This executable language is evident on the anti-gravity device and on the Big Basin drone on the paddle connected to the main ring. The main ring is in turn evident in the Isaac inventory photo which would certainly suggest that Isaac meant that the Drones were powered by the anti-gravity device and this is where the correlation lies and explains why they were both contained in his release of documents. This also explains why he went to the lengths he did to try and clarify the subjects which he did, as much as he did, (i.e. LAP, A1 device etc.)"


I didn’t want to get into semantics but Isaac said,

“But what interested me most then, and still amazes me most to this day, was something completely unrelated. In fact, it was this technology that immediately jumped out at me when I saw the Chad and Rajman photos, and even moreso in the Big Basin photos.

But their technology is different. It really did operate like the magical piece of paper sitting on a table, in a manner of speaking. They had something akin to a language, that could quite literally execute itself, at least in the presence of a very specific type of field. The language, a term I am still using very loosely, is a system of symbols (which does admittedly very much resemble a written language) along with geometric forms and patterns that fit together to form diagrams that are themselves functional. Once they are drawn, so to speak, on a suitable surface made of a suitable material and in the presence of a certain type of field, they immediately begin performing the desired tasks.”


“MORESO IN THE BIG BASIN PHOTOS”

Isaac explains what he recognized, why he recognized it and how it works. So Isaac has said it was this, “Executable language” that he recognized.

“Same race, same language. Not, necessarily for the same craft” is (I feel) irrelevant. Even if we (humans) made them they are still employing the use of the, “Executable language” which Isaac recognized and so wouldn't that also mean they are inextricably linked to the antigravity device? That was all I was saying.

I drew this conclusion from EXACTLY what Isaac wrote. Not becuase it looks like it’s from a, “Round craft” or could be from a “Different race,” no supposition or conjecture at all, purely from what Isaac wrote. I try to stick with what Isaac wrote as personally I have no idea of how to even begin to ascertain or discern what the shape of the, “Craft” would be like, and similarly I couldn’t begin to even hazard an educated guess as to the, “Alien race” which owns it.

I suppose it’s the same as with every aspect of the Drones, different people see and think different things, purely down to eye of the beholder.

(If Vonstern hadn’t of said, “Feel free to debate the possibilities of this assumption.” I wouldn’t even have commented but he invited the input.)

And sorry for keeping you awake Vonstern!! grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 11th, 2007, 08:23am

on Sep 11th, 2007, 12:10am, Latitude wrote:
So I guess that makes Salad our accidental hero? laugh Ha ha. He set out to make this case a hoax and ended up providing evidence to the contrary. Oh man, that's rich! grin



Exactly!!! Who'da thunk it? Even his best attempt at creating a BB drone still looked cartoonish in comparison to the real deal. -- no offense, good CGI, just not REAL.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 11th, 2007, 08:26am

on Sep 11th, 2007, 02:15am, DrDil wrote:
I wrote this a couple of paragraphs before as I knew it would be mentioned so I tried to clarify my thought processes as to how I arrived at the conclusion.

[b][i]And although he never said that the inventory photo and the anti-gravity device were directly related he DID say that the thing that caught his eye with the Drones was the fact that it used the executable, “Language”.



Oh, yeah OK.. you did say that.. so we agree there.

I haven't had time to read VonStern's theory yet, it will be interesting, he is very smart. (and so are you) I just didn't know how you could shoot down his propulsion theory based on anything Isaac said or didn't say. Being that the theory of how they work is based on the executable language that even those scientists in the day couldn't figure out. That's all.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 11th, 2007, 08:29am

on Sep 11th, 2007, 02:15am, DrDil wrote:
I wrote this a couple of paragraphs before as I knew it would be mentioned so I tried to clarify my thought processes as to how I arrived at the conclusion.

And although he never said that the inventory photo and the anti-gravity device were directly related he DID say that the thing that caught his eye with the Drones was the fact that it used the executable, “Language”.

This executable language is evident on the anti-gravity device and on the Big Basin drone on the paddle connected to the main ring. The main ring is in turn evident in the Isaac inventory photo which would certainly suggest that Isaac meant that the Drones were powered by the anti-gravity device and this is where the correlation lies and explains why they were both contained in his release of documents. This also explains why he went to the lengths he did to try and clarify the subjects which he did, as much as he did, (i.e. LAP, A1 device etc.)"


I didn’t want to get into semantics but Isaac said,

“But what interested me most then, and still amazes me most to this day, was something completely unrelated. In fact, it was this technology that immediately jumped out at me when I saw the Chad and Rajman photos, and even moreso in the Big Basin photos.

But their technology is different. It really did operate like the magical piece of paper sitting on a table, in a manner of speaking. They had something akin to a language, that could quite literally execute itself, at least in the presence of a very specific type of field. The language, a term I am still using very loosely, is a system of symbols (which does admittedly very much resemble a written language) along with geometric forms and patterns that fit together to form diagrams that are themselves functional. Once they are drawn, so to speak, on a suitable surface made of a suitable material and in the presence of a certain type of field, they immediately begin performing the desired tasks.”


“MORESO IN THE BIG BASIN PHOTOS”

Isaac explains what he recognized, why he recognized it and how it works. So Isaac has said it was this, “Executable language” that he recognized.

“Same race, same language. Not, necessarily for the same craft” is (I feel) irrelevant. Even if we (humans) made them they are still employing the use of the, “Executable language” which Isaac recognized and so wouldn't that also mean they are inextricably linked to the antigravity device? That was all I was saying.

I drew this conclusion from EXACTLY what Isaac wrote. Not becuase it looks like it’s from a, “Round craft” or could be from a “Different race,” no supposition or conjecture at all, purely from what Isaac wrote. I try to stick with what Isaac wrote as personally I have no idea of how to even begin to ascertain or discern what the shape of the, “Craft” would be like, and similarly I couldn’t begin to even hazard an educated guess as to the, “Alien race” which owns it.

I suppose it’s the same as with every aspect of the Drones, different people see and think different things, purely down to eye of the beholder.

(If Vonstern hadn’t of said, “Feel free to debate the possibilities of this assumption.” I wouldn’t even have commented but he invited the input.)

And sorry for keeping you awake Vonstern!! grin


The issue I have with what Isaac has written, is that it is a cat and mouse game. You can make it mean any thing you want. If written by an engineer, it is not specific. Are the drones we are seeing in the photos ours (back engineered) or alien. When you read the story, it can make sense both ways. In the inventory, there are components from Ty and Stephan's drones laying there on the floor (therefore, we had the drone parts 20 plus years ago according to Isaac's documents). Yet here they are flying today. Are they back engineered or flown by aliens? Isaac should have a good idea if we could have back engineered and fly these things or not. And if they are alien flown, I do not understand why heads would roll if we uncloaked one (in theory, we did not know it was there if it was flown by aliens, or we did know it was there because we were flying it and that is why someone would be in trouble for decloaking it in the public eye).

Where does that place our understanding? How do we honestly make sense of this stuff?

I would like to see someone write a paraphrased version of what Isaac said that is consistent and understandable.

User Image

14b and 16 are the rings on the Big Basin drone.



User Image

16 is the large ring on the right and 14b is the smaller ring with the "wing" or paddle on the left.



User Image

You can see 14b a little better here.


DrDil, I know Isaac does not say it (I think Isaac does not say it), but Isaac does tie it together with the documents provided and the photo shown on the Isaac website. Without making the link, the link was made.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by onthefence55 on Sep 11th, 2007, 09:20am

on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:53pm, r0ni wrote:
All these rings gets me thinking about this clip:

http://richardlalancette.blogspot.com/2007/09/demonstration-video-of-mobious-ring.html

peace..


Just some note about that video:

My conclusion from watching that video is that the presenter is not fluent in basic electricity. Many times throughout the video he states that the unit produces a large amount of power measured in amps. Power is measured in watts and must be measured with a wattmeter so that the phase and direction of voltage and current can be taken into account.

It's pretty obvious that the presenter is not the inventor.

I suspect from his closing remarks that he is explaining an inverter powered by an internal battery. That coil could have been a rechargeable battery with an oscillator and coil to produce the larger voltage output. Connecting the coil to the other inverter was used to charge up the battery in the coil device. The large Trip-lite inverter could have had a 12V battery connected to it, there was a very large black box on the side of the Tripp-Lite inverter.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 11th, 2007, 09:21am

on Sep 11th, 2007, 08:29am, Marvin wrote:
Are the drones we are seeing in the photos ours (back engineered) or alien. Are they back engineered or flown by aliens? ........ And if they are alien flown, I do not understand why heads would roll if we uncloaked one (in theory, we did not know it was there if it was flown by aliens, or we did know it was there because we were flying it and that is why someone would be in trouble for decloaking it in the public eye).

.


I think the ones out there (aside from the Birmingham drone) are ALIEN designed and flown.

I think the reason that someone's head would roll for decloaking them is that
1) government knows that the alien drones are flying around, and have let them use our government air space around airforce bases and national parks to do so... and it's a secret that they want kept.
and 2) the decloaking device is so powerful that someone shouldn't be toying with it.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Nodnunk on Sep 11th, 2007, 09:28am

on Sep 10th, 2007, 6:58pm, VonStern wrote:
I have thrown in some new stuff at the Magazine:

http://vonstern.homepage.dk/Magazine.html

Feel free to debate the possibilities of this assumption.

VonStern


Quote from the link above:
If this power can be harnessed by NANO grids, embedded in the surface of the housing, attachments could be hold together (and onto) the rings by magnetic differencies due to current changes inside the superconductors, you not only have the antigravity, but also the propulsion system.

Physics, as we Earthlings understand it, separates gravity from electromagnetism, the strong and the weak forces. So explain further how your magnetic fields can be turned into antigravity by a superconductor?

Also, from what mechanism does the propulsion system arise?

For readers who are interested, the four fundamental forces are briefly described here:

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/forces.html


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by becker44 on Sep 11th, 2007, 09:50am

Hi Guys and Gals,

I was browsing some videos on YouTube and for some reason the very begining of this got me thinking a little bit. Perhaps an expert can stop it and have good look but I swear it looks an awful lot like Isaacs photo of the device. You don't have to punish yourself with the whole vid. It is in the fisrt few seconds as the snail transforms. I know, sounds wierd but have a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0NWazhM5ZY

Becker
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by BuzZz777 on Sep 11th, 2007, 09:56am

on Sep 11th, 2007, 09:21am, castles4me wrote:
I think the ones out there (aside from the Birmingham drone) are ALIEN designed and flown.

I think the reason that someone's head would roll for decloaking them is that
1) government knows that the alien drones are flying around, and have let them use our government air space around airforce bases and national parks to do so... and it's a secret that they want kept.
and 2) the decloaking device is so powerful that someone shouldn't be toying with it.


Yes you think... and thats about as far as it goes.. this Drone thing is certainly one big
distraction thats for sure. this site has done a great job at that
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 11th, 2007, 09:57am

This is perhaps going to be hard for some people here, but please try.

Just for a moment, discard all your beliefs. Forget your opinions. Open your mind and imagine you're seeing all images and documents from this case for the very first time, but with one difference:

You know they are fake. You know this is hoax.

Just for the sake of this 'gedanken' experiment, it doesn't matter how you know that. You simply know. You are looking at drone images for the first time, and you know it's fake. You are reading CARET documents for the first time, and you know it's fake. Can you do this?

Now, try to explain how it's done.

Remember, all images and documents from this case. How can you generate something like this without computer?

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 11th, 2007, 09:58am

on Sep 11th, 2007, 09:21am, castles4me wrote:
I think the ones out there (aside from the Birmingham drone) are ALIEN designed and flown.

I think the reason that someone's head would roll for decloaking them is that
1) government knows that the alien drones are flying around, and have let them use our government air space around airforce bases and national parks to do so... and it's a secret that they want kept.
and 2) the decloaking device is so powerful that someone shouldn't be toying with it.


Hi Castles,

I am trying to understand your thoughts.
1. We are working together with aliens.
2. They gave us this technology (Isaac did not know why).
3. We are working with this technology (even back engineering it for civilian use for over 20 years).
4. But we are not flying it (we are not taking advantage of this gift of technology).
5. All drones are only flown by the aliens (other than the AL drone).

Is this correct?


Why does the AL drone have a human origin?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 11th, 2007, 10:45am

on Sep 11th, 2007, 08:26am, castles4me wrote:
I just didn't know how you could shoot down his propulsion theory based on anything Isaac said or didn't say. Being that the theory of how they work is based on the executable language that even those scientists in the day couldn't figure out.

I don’t think I, “Shot anything down” merely offered my opinion as requested. You say, “Being that the theory of how they work is based on the executable language that even those scientists in the day couldn't figure out.” So was the language executable or not? Either they figured out it was executable or they didn’t, and bear in mind that Isaac (word for word) wrote,

“I put the word Language in quotes because calling what I am about to describe a “language” is a misnomer, although it is an easy mistake to make………. But their technology is different. It really did operate like the magical piece of paper sitting on a table, in a manner of speaking. They had something akin to a language, that could quite literally execute itself.”

If it was executable as Isaac said then whether the theory was based on it or not the undisputable fact exists that the language was executable. And if they couldn’t figure it out how do you know the theory of how the Drones work is based on the executable language?

This was what I meant when I said I didn’t want to get into semantics. I also asked Vonstern if what Isaac wrote was a direct contradiction of his theory, I hardly feel that can be classed as shooting something down no matter how broadly the term is used.

on Sep 11th, 2007, 08:29am, Marvin wrote:
“DrDil, I know Isaac does not say it, but Isaac does tie it together with the documents provided and the photo shown on the Isaac website. Without making the link, the link was made.”

I don’t quite get you Marvin, it seems like you’re disagreeing with me but you’re stating exactly what I did only with different words. That was my point and also why I wrote,

on Sep 11th, 2007, 02:15am, DrDil wrote:
“And although he never said that the inventory photo and the anti-gravity device were directly related he DID say that the thing that caught his eye with the Drones was the fact that it used the executable, “Language”.

This executable language is evident on the anti-gravity device and on the Big Basin drone on the paddle connected to the main ring. The main ring is in turn evident in the Isaac inventory photo which would certainly suggest that Isaac meant that the Drones were powered by the anti-gravity device and this is where the correlation lies and explains why they were both contained in his release of documents. This also explains why he went to the lengths he did to try and clarify the subjects which he did, as much as he did, (i.e. LAP, A1 device etc.)"

Or do I misunderstand?
(Thanks for the comment -#329- you made earlier Marvin, I thought it would appear self-indulgent to re-quote you just to say thank you!! grin)



Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 11th, 2007, 11:48am

Sorry DrDil, let me explain:

on Sep 11th, 2007, 02:15am, DrDil wrote:
And although he never said that the inventory photo and the anti-gravity device were directly related he DID say that the thing that caught his eye with the Drones was the fact that it used the executable, “Language”.


Like most of what I read of Isaac, I think you too are seeing the lack of real explanation, clarity and tie together in Isaac’s writing.

I can not say if Isaac is trying or is not trying to put these things directly together. Isaac does not do so clearly. But Isaac does tie things together, if Isaac means to or not. Isaac may not directly spell it out in the writings when showing the inventory photo, anti-gravity device, cloaking and the drone photos, but Isaac is placing them all together. Isaac is indirectly linking everything together into one package as if it will “fly” together or fall together.

I do not think Isaac ever states that the drone in the Big Basin photos or its components are what Isaac or the team had worked on, but the photographed inventory components show them laying there. That is a large oversight on Isaac’s part when it should have been very obvious to Isaac (unless Isaac is blind). One would think Isaac would have pointed this out and said, yep... we worked on stuff like that. Look at Big Basin photos and the inventory photos.

I guess what I am saying is, there is what Isaac says, and there is what Isaac says and shows. I keep tripping over these. If Isaac is making a disclosure, it is like Isaac may not be aware of what is being disclosed here or is trying to beat around the subject a bit and not really disclosing anything. Something is missing or not right. Isaac had an opportunity to do a slam dunk that would convince everyone and 20 years to think about it.



on Sep 11th, 2007, 02:15am, DrDil wrote:
This executable language is evident on the anti-gravity device and on the Big Basin drone on the paddle connected to the main ring. The main ring is in turn evident in the Isaac inventory photo which would certainly suggest that Isaac meant that the Drones were powered by the anti-gravity device and this is where the correlation lies and explains why they were both contained in his release of documents. This also explains why he went to the lengths he did to try and clarify the subjects which he did, as much as he did, (i.e. LAP, A1 device etc.)"

I didn’t want to get into semantics but Isaac said,

“But what interested me most then, and still amazes me most to this day, was something completely unrelated. In fact, it was this technology that immediately jumped out at me when I saw the Chad and Rajman photos, and even moreso in the Big Basin photos.”

“MORESO IN THE BIG BASIN PHOTOS”

Isaac explains what he recognized, why he recognized it and how it works. So Isaac has said it was this, “Executable language” that he recognized.

“Same race, same language. Not, necessarily for the same craft



"Something completely unrelated?"

This is where I think I see something different, Isaac has to know the Big Basin is the same craft. At least the same technology. It is unmistakable, that is if Isaac had worked on it. Isaac’s documentation suggests that Isaac should have been at least familiar with it. In fact Isaac would have known a lot more than what has been reviled to us (how many pages were in the two reports and how many have been shown). This should not a guessing game for Isaac. Isaac should know.

The Big Basin photos should have caught Isaac's eye alright, as being the same materials the team worked on. But Isaac over looked this.


on Sep 11th, 2007, 02:15am, DrDil wrote:
I drew this conclusion from EXACTLY what Isaac wrote. Not becuase it looks like it’s from a, “Round craft” or could be from a “Different race,” no supposition or conjecture at all, purely from what Isaac wrote. I try to stick with what Isaac wrote as personally I have no idea of how to even begin to ascertain or discern what the shape of the, “Craft” would be like, and similarly I couldn’t begin to even hazard an educated guess as to the, “Alien race” which owns it.

I suppose it’s the same as with every aspect of the Drones, different people see and think different things, purely down to eye of the beholder.


DrDil, I find it difficult to understand what Isaac writes and presents in order to make a consistent and understandable story. Any help is appreciated.


I do understand the context of using Isaac's words and story vs., conjecture and "unrelated" UFOlogy being applied to drones and Isaac.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 11th, 2007, 12:24pm

Isaac did say he had hundreds of photocopies. Those are the ones he chose to reveal. He was well aware of what he put up, otherwise he wouldn't have chosen those pages specifically.

As you say... no mention. He also says that the language is what caught his eye. But he knew about the rings. Seems odd that.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Sep 11th, 2007, 12:45pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 11:48am, Marvin wrote:
I do not think Isaac ever states that the drone in the Big Basin photos or its components are what Isaac or the team had worked on, but the photographed inventory components show them laying there. That is a large oversight on Isaac’s part when it should have been very obvious to Isaac (unless Isaac is blind). One would think Isaac would have pointed this out and said, yep... we worked on stuff like that. Look at Big Basin photos and the inventory photos.


Isaac said: "I should first be clear that I'm not directly familiar with any of the crafts seen in the photos in their entirety. I've never seen them in a hangar or worked on them myself or seen aliens zipping around in them. However, I have worked with and seen many of the parts visible in these crafts, some of which can be seen in the Q3-85 Inventory Review scan found at the top of this page. More importantly though, I'm very familiar with the “language” on their undersides seen clearly in photos by Chad and Rajman, and in another form in the Big Basin photos."

Newt


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 11th, 2007, 12:51pm

I stand corrected. Thanks.

Interestingly out of that segment, I noticed this line...

"or seen aliens zipping around in them"

Does that infer that there should be? If nothing else I think he is saying that they are of alien origin. Is that a fair assessment?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 11th, 2007, 12:52pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 12:45pm, newtothis wrote:
Isaac said: "I should first be clear that I'm not directly familiar with any of the crafts seen in the photos in their entirety. I've never seen them in a hangar or worked on them myself or seen aliens zipping around in them. However, I have worked with and seen many of the parts visible in these crafts, some of which can be seen in the Q3-85 Inventory Review scan found at the top of this page. More importantly though, I'm very familiar with the “language” on their undersides seen clearly in photos by Chad and Rajman, and in another form in the Big Basin photos."

Newt



Thanks Newt.

That's a great example why I would like to see someone put the story together so I can make sense of it. It jumps around too much for me, not an easy read.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 11th, 2007, 1:03pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 09:56am, BuzZz777 wrote:
Yes you think... and thats about as far as it goes.. this Drone thing is certainly one big
distraction thats for sure. this site has done a great job at that


Yes, I do think.... quite often.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 11th, 2007, 1:14pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 09:58am, Marvin wrote:
Hi Castles,

I am trying to understand your thoughts.
1. We are working together with aliens.
2. They gave us this technology (Isaac did not know why).
3. We are working with this technology (even back engineering it for civilian use for over 20 years).
4. But we are not flying it (we are not taking advantage of this gift of technology).
5. All drones are only flown by the aliens (other than the AL drone).

Is this correct?

Why does the AL drone have a human origin?


answers

1. I wouldn't know for sure if in fact the government is working WITH the aliens, but found a correlation between the location of sightings. They were all near an air force base, or in airspace over a national park. Both, government owned, and possibly, they were allowed to fly there.

2. The "they" in his documents is not clear. Either he means "they" the aliens gave us (U.S.) their technology, or "they" the PTB gave us (the group of scientists at PACL) their technology.

3. Right.

4. Not sure if we are flying it. If you go back and research that era of time and what the computer artificial intelligence community was able to accomplish and what companies were doing such as Lockheed, Xerox, XParc, Lawrence Livermore etc... you can see that so much of a "burst" of technology came forth right around the same time. Like the Isaac letter stated, they were using the technology for CIVILIAN applications, which I believe that they did just that. Whether or not we are actually FLYING a drone copy around is beyond me.

5. I am assuming, just based on gut feeling, that the drones that we see are in fact alien flown and produced. When I look at the Birmingham drone, it looks more manufactured than the others, and there is no alien writing on it. (albeit birmingham drone could be a copycat hoax drone) But, I don't think the drones we have seen in the photos are US back engineered. That certainly doesn't mean that they haven't back engineered them, or that somewhere, there ARE some more.

IMHO of course
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 11th, 2007, 1:45pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 1:14pm, castles4me wrote:
answers

1. I wouldn't know for sure if in fact the government is working WITH the aliens, but found a correlation between the location of sightings. They were all near an air force base, or in airspace over a national park. Both, government owned, and possibly, they were allowed to fly there.


I should point out this is not accurate. The only National Parks in any of the drone reports I can remember is Yosemite and Sequoia. Big Basin is a state park. Capitola is not a park and there are no national parks in the Tahoe area.

So my point is there may be no correlation between the drones and government airspace. Until we find out what the purpose of the drones are we will probably never know why they were spotted in those locations.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 11th, 2007, 1:51pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 1:14pm, castles4me wrote:
answers

1. I wouldn't know for sure if in fact the government is working WITH the aliens, but found a correlation between the location of sightings. They were all near an air force base, or in airspace over a national park. Both, government owned, and possibly, they were allowed to fly there.

2. The "they" in his documents is not clear. Either he means "they" the aliens gave us (U.S.) their technology, or "they" the PTB gave us (the group of scientists at PACL) their technology.

3. Right.

4. Not sure if we are flying it. If you go back and research that era of time and what the computer artificial intelligence community was able to accomplish and what companies were doing such as Lockheed, Xerox, XParc, Lawrence Livermore etc... you can see that so much of a "burst" of technology came forth right around the same time. Like the Isaac letter stated, they were using the technology for CIVILIAN applications, which I believe that they did just that. Whether or not we are actually FLYING a drone copy around is beyond me.

5. I am assuming, just based on gut feeling, that the drones that we see are in fact alien flown and produced. When I look at the Birmingham drone, it looks more manufactured than the others, and there is no alien writing on it. (albeit birmingham drone could be a copycat hoax drone) But, I don't think the drones we have seen in the photos are US back engineered. That certainly doesn't mean that they haven't back engineered them, or that somewhere, there ARE some more.

IMHO of course


1. Could it be:
a. We allow them to fly there or,
b. They are observing what is happening there or,
c. They are actually ours?

2. Isaac sadly is not clear, but Isaac does mention other races that are called "sources."

3. Okay

4. I was thinking that (depending on what given to us means) we may be the ones flying these things. And we may have the ability to manufacture them by now. Who knows? If it is ours now, I can see why heads will roll if they are seen.

5. It may be possible, that in order to work, the drones are going to look this way, that is they will have the "language" on them... yet they maybe made by us and flown by us (just maybe).

Just my thoughts.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 11th, 2007, 2:11pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 1:45pm, Latitude wrote:
I should point out this is not accurate. The only National Parks in any of the drone reports I can remember is Yosemite and Sequoia. Big Basin is a state park. Capitola is not a park and there are no national parks in the Tahoe area.

So my point is there may be no correlation between the drones and government airspace. Until we find out what the purpose of the drones are we will probably never know why they were spotted in those locations.


you are right... I should have said that "many of them" were and not all.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 11th, 2007, 2:17pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 1:51pm, Marvin wrote:
4. I was thinking that (depending on what given to us means) we may be the ones flying these things. And we may have the ability to manufacture them by now. Who knows? If it is ours now, I can see why heads will roll if they are seen.

5. It may be possible, that in order to work, the drones are going to look this way, that is they will have the "language" on them... yet they maybe made by us and flown by us (just maybe).

Just my thoughts.


yeah, definitely could be. Maybe they HAVE to have the alien language on them in order to work and they could in fact be back-engineered. Maybe the gov just put the alien language on them so that when they accidentally got cloaked and people took photos of them and sent them into UFO sites, that people spent hundreds of hours researching the UFO aspect of it and didn't realize that they are U.S. owned and they are used for ubiquitous spying on telephone and email conversations for national security (or otherwise) LOL grin

After all, when we try to report seeing drones flying over telephone wires to the media with alien language on them they laugh, call us crazy and don't publish it. If we said government drones are spying on (and subsequently breaking the civil rights of our citizens) telephone calls by hovering over telephone wires.... that just might be a story for live at 5:00.

The possibilities are endless, and we just don't know. I am still believeing that are alien.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 11th, 2007, 3:03pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 2:17pm, castles4me wrote:
The possibilities are endless, and we just don't know. I am still believeing that are alien.


My feelings on that for what it's worth are that the drones are alien, all of them including the Alabama drone. We continue to study them but have yet not figured out how they work. If we did Nasa would not be spending billions lifting satellites and shuttles into orbit by burning chemicals. It's sad to think that Nasa is still using technology from the middle ages and 1926.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 11th, 2007, 3:12pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 3:03pm, Latitude wrote:
My feelings on that for what it's worth are that the drones are alien, all of them including the Alabama drone. We continue to study them but have yet not figured out how they work. If we did Nasa would not be spending billions lifting satellites and shuttles into orbit by burning chemicals. It's sad to think that Nasa is still using technology from the middle ages and 1926.



This is my belief as well.

Latitude... what on earth is that avatar of yours... I can't figure it out smiley lol
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by onthefence55 on Sep 11th, 2007, 3:33pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 3:12pm, castles4me wrote:
Latitude... what on earth is that avatar of yours... I can't figure it out smiley lol


You've been staring at it for almost a month now smiley

It's the center part in the cage of the Ty BB photo.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 11th, 2007, 3:47pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 3:33pm, onthefence55 wrote:
You've been staring at it for almost a month now smiley

It's the center part in the cage of the Ty BB photo.


well that would be three months .... lol

What are we looking at there? Some kind of alien in the cage? (here we go again... tee hee)
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 11th, 2007, 4:04pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 3:47pm, castles4me wrote:
well that would be three months .... lol

What are we looking at there? Some kind of alien in the cage? (here we go again... tee hee)


That is for you to decide. I still believe something may be going on in there. The cage interior has too many weird and different things showing from pic to pic. None of the other parts act that way. Is it only an optical illusion? Maybe. Somebody somewhere mentioned something about the BB drone cage but I can't remember what it was. If anybody finds it please post.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by urantia606 on Sep 11th, 2007, 4:25pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 4:04pm, Latitude wrote:
That is for you to decide. I still believe something may be going on in there. The cage interior has too many weird and different things showing from pic to pic. None of the other parts act that way. Is it only an optical illusion? Maybe. Somebody somewhere mentioned something about the BB drone cage but I can't remember what it was. If anybody finds it please post.


Hi all:

I'm one of the cage people.

At the bottom of the cage there is a circular ring. Each of the eight upward legs of the cage is hinged around this ring. If you look closely you can see that they are attached by hinges at the bottom of the cage around the ring. [This may be the reason that several people have noticed that the legs are not attached to the top of the cage.] This allows each leg to be lowered to the ground to act as a base for the entire central section.

The center of the cage may be the devices that hold the lower hinge ring in place and the wires may lower and raise each leg.

FTR...IMO
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Sep 11th, 2007, 4:27pm

Castles4me, have you found any more reports that occurred at the same time as the drone sightings?

Isaac said, in reference to the invisibility cloak being jammed: "God knows what else was suddenly appearing in the skies at that moment, and who else may have seen it."

I know that this report was in the same area and on the same day as the BB pics were taken.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/pleasonton.html

Seems like those craft had the same cloaking technology...

Thanks!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 11th, 2007, 5:49pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 4:27pm, newtothis wrote:
Castles4me, have you found any more reports that occurred at the same time as the drone sightings?

Isaac said, in reference to the invisibility cloak being jammed: "God knows what else was suddenly appearing in the skies at that moment, and who else may have seen it."

I know that this report was in the same area and on the same day as the BB pics were taken.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/pleasonton.html

Seems like those craft had the same cloaking technology...

Thanks!
yes for that many to be fling around at the same time ,thy would have to of had a cloaking device to hide. cool
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 11th, 2007, 6:01pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 11:48am, Marvin wrote:
Sorry DrDil, let me explain:

Like most of what I read of Isaac, I think you too are seeing the lack of real explanation, clarity and tie together in Isaac’s writing.

I can not say if Isaac is trying or is not trying to put these things directly together. Isaac does not do so clearly. But Isaac does tie things together, if Isaac means to or not. Isaac may not directly spell it out in the writings when showing the inventory photo, anti-gravity device, cloaking and the drone photos, but Isaac is placing them all together. Isaac is indirectly linking everything together into one package as if it will “fly” together or fall together.

I do not think Isaac ever states that the drone in the Big Basin photos or its components are what Isaac or the team had worked on, but the photographed inventory components show them laying there. That is a large oversight on Isaac’s part when it should have been very obvious to Isaac (unless Isaac is blind). One would think Isaac would have pointed this out and said, yep... we worked on stuff like that. Look at Big Basin photos and the inventory photos.

I guess what I am saying is, there is what Isaac says, and there is what Isaac says and shows. I keep tripping over these. If Isaac is making a disclosure, it is like Isaac may not be aware of what is being disclosed here or is trying to beat around the subject a bit and not really disclosing anything. Something is missing or not right. Isaac had an opportunity to do a slam dunk that would convince everyone and 20 years to think about it.

"Something completely unrelated?"

This is where I think I see something different, Isaac has to know the Big Basin is the same craft. At least the same technology. It is unmistakable, that is if Isaac had worked on it. Isaac’s documentation suggests that Isaac should have been at least familiar with it. In fact Isaac would have known a lot more than what has been reviled to us (how many pages were in the two reports and how many have been shown). This should not a guessing game for Isaac. Isaac should know.

The Big Basin photos should have caught Isaac's eye alright, as being the same materials the team worked on. But Isaac over looked this.

DrDil, I find it difficult to understand what Isaac writes and presents in order to make a consistent and understandable story. Any help is appreciated.

I do understand the context of using Isaac's words and story vs., conjecture and "unrelated" UFOlogy being applied to drones and Isaac.

Hi Marvin.

You quoted Isaac as saying, “Something completely unrelated” then wrote,


"Something completely unrelated? This is where I think I see something different, Isaac has to know the Big Basin is the same craft. At least the same technology. It is unmistakable, that is if Isaac had worked on it. Isaac’s documentation suggests that Isaac should have been at least familiar with it. In fact Isaac would have known a lot more than what has been reviled to us (how many pages were in the two reports and how many have been shown). This should not a guessing game for Isaac. Isaac should know. “

Where as the full Isaac quote is as follows,

“The antigrav was amazing, of course, as were the advances we were making with materials engineering and so on. But what interested me most then, and still amazes me most to this day, was something completely unrelated. In fact, it was this technology that immediately jumped out at me when I saw the Chad and Rajman photos, and even moreso in the Big Basin photos.”

Note: AS WERE THE ADVANCES WE WERE MAKING WITH MATERIALS ENGINEERING AND SO ON. But what interested me most then, and still amazes me most to this day, was something completely unrelated.”

I always thought that the, “Something completely unrelated” that Isaac was referring to was something completely unrelated to materials engineering, as this was what he said immediately before saying, “Something completely unrelated.”

(I thought these engineering materials could have been what he earlier referred to as a, “Holographic computational substrate” As he also wrote,
Their hardware appeared to be perfectly solid and consistent in terms of material from one side to the other. Like a rock or a hunk of metal. But upon [much] closer inspection, we began to learn that it was actually one big holographic computational substrate - each ‘computational element’ (essentially individual particles) can function independently.”)


-----------------------------
Hmm, this is harder than I thought as I still don’t think I explained my perception of it very well!!
-----------------------------

Isaac said that he had worked on the parts which can be seen in the Q3-85 review. (FACT)

The Big Basin Drone had one of the rings that are present in the inventory review. (FACT)

Isaac recognized the, “Language.” (FACT)

The Big Basin Drone has a paddle with the, “Language” on it attached directly to the ring that is visible in the inventory review. (FACT)


In my comment that you quoted (i.e. “I drew this conclusion from EXACTLY what Isaac wrote”) I wrote that,

“Isaac explains what he recognized, why he recognized it and how it works. So Isaac has said it was this, “Executable language” that he recognized….They are still employing the use of the, “Executable language” which Isaac recognized and so wouldn't that also mean they are inextricably linked to the antigravity device?”

That’s all I was referring to, the conclusion I made was being that Isaac recognized the executable language and the language Isaac worked on with the A1 is one and the same.

One of the four items dealing directly with antigravity that Isaac said he worked on was this, “Language.” It is listed as the 3rd item in the PACL document,

User Image

“A complex system of symbols and geometric constucts capable of both defining the functionality of certain artifacts as well as manipulating their behaviour, crudely analogous to a computer programming language but without the need for a compilation or interpretation phase.”

So, Isaac tells us he worked on the anti-gravity devices. (FACT)

One of these devices is the, “Language,” i.e. “A complex system of symbols and geometric constructs.” (FACT)


Isaac wrote, “I worked with these symbols more than anything during my time at PACL, and recognized them the moment I saw them in the photos. They appear in a very simple form on Chad’s craft, but appear in the more complex diagram form on the underside of the Big Basin craft as well. Both are unmistakable, even at the small size of the Big Basin photos.”

Note, “I worked with these symbols more than anything during my time at PACL, and recognized them the moment I saw them in the photos.”

In summary:

1) ISAAC WORKED MAINLY WITH THE ANTI-GRAVITY DEVICES. (FACT)

2) ISAAC WORKED WITH THE SYMBOLS MORE THAN ANYTHING. (FACT)

3) THE LANGUAGE IS ONE OF THE 4 ITEMS LISTED UNDER ANTIGRAVITY IN THE PACL DOCUMENT. (FACT)

4) ISAAC RECOGNIZED THEM THE MOMENT HE SAW THEM IN THE PHOTOS. (FACT)


That is what I based my conclusion on i.e. that the Big Basin Drone has the language on them which Isaac recognized instantly as being the same that he worked on while studying the anti-gravity device.

This in turn led me to the conclusion I stated and which I also said was based on facts. I.e. that the, “Language” on the Big Basin Drone was DIRECTLY associated with the anti-gravity device as Isaac said he worked with the symbols more than anything WHICH ARE ONE OF THE FOUR ITEMS LISTED AS, “ANTI-GRAVITY” IN THE PACL REPORT. So it was this, “Language” he studied mostly during his work with anti-gravity and as a direct result he recognized this, “Language” instantly.

I hope that helps to clarify why I think (according to Isaac) that the Drones utilize the antigravity device.

So what’s your take on it Marvin?

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY WHERE’S VON (THE INSTIGATOR) STERN!!
grin laugh
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 11th, 2007, 6:16pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 6:01pm, DrDil wrote:
Hi Marvin.

You quoted Isaac as saying, “Something completely unrelated” then wrote,


"Something completely unrelated? This is where I think I see something different, Isaac has to know the Big Basin is the same craft. At least the same technology. It is unmistakable, that is if Isaac had worked on it. Isaac’s documentation suggests that Isaac should have been at least familiar with it. In fact Isaac would have known a lot more than what has been reviled to us (how many pages were in the two reports and how many have been shown). This should not a guessing game for Isaac. Isaac should know. “

Where as the full Isaac quote is as follows,

“The antigrav was amazing, of course, as were the advances we were making with materials engineering and so on. But what interested me most then, and still amazes me most to this day, was something completely unrelated. In fact, it was this technology that immediately jumped out at me when I saw the Chad and Rajman photos, and even moreso in the Big Basin photos.”

Note: AS WERE THE ADVANCES WE WERE MAKING WITH MATERIALS ENGINEERING AND SO ON. But what interested me most then, and still amazes me most to this day, was something completely unrelated.”

I always thought that the, “Something completely unrelated” that Isaac was referring to was something completely unrelated to materials engineering, as this was what he said immediately before saying, “Something completely unrelated.”

(I thought these engineering materials could have been what he earlier referred to as a, “Holographic computational substrate” As he also wrote,
Their hardware appeared to be perfectly solid and consistent in terms of material from one side to the other. Like a rock or a hunk of metal. But upon [much] closer inspection, we began to learn that it was actually one big holographic computational substrate - each ‘computational element’ (essentially individual particles) can function independently.”)


-----------------------------
Hmm, this is harder than I thought as I still don’t think I explained my perception of it very well!!
-----------------------------

Isaac said that he had worked on the parts which can be seen in the Q3-85 review. (FACT)

The Big Basin Drone had one of the rings that are present in the inventory review. (FACT)

Isaac recognized the, “Language.” (FACT)

The Big Basin Drone has a paddle with the, “Language” on it attached directly to the ring that is visible in the inventory review. (FACT)


In my comment that you quoted (i.e. “I drew this conclusion from EXACTLY what Isaac wrote”) I wrote that,

“Isaac explains what he recognized, why he recognized it and how it works. So Isaac has said it was this, “Executable language” that he recognized….They are still employing the use of the, “Executable language” which Isaac recognized and so wouldn't that also mean they are inextricably linked to the antigravity device?”

That’s all I was referring to, the conclusion I made was being that Isaac recognized the executable language and the language Isaac worked on with the A1 is one and the same.

One of the four items dealing directly with antigravity that Isaac said he worked on was this, “Language.” It is listed as the 3rd item in the PACL document,

User Image

“A complex system of symbols and geometric constucts capable of both defining the functionality of certain artifacts as well as manipulating their behaviour, crudely analogous to a computer programming language but without the need for a compilation or interpretation phase.”

So, Isaac tells us he worked on the anti-gravity devices. (FACT)

One of these devices is the, “Language,” i.e. “A complex system of symbols and geometric constructs.” (FACT)


Isaac wrote, “I worked with these symbols more than anything during my time at PACL, and recognized them the moment I saw them in the photos. They appear in a very simple form on Chad’s craft, but appear in the more complex diagram form on the underside of the Big Basin craft as well. Both are unmistakable, even at the small size of the Big Basin photos.”

Note, “I worked with these symbols more than anything during my time at PACL, and recognized them the moment I saw them in the photos.”

In summary:

1) ISAAC WORKED MAINLY WITH THE ANTI-GRAVITY DEVICES. (FACT)

2) ISAAC WORKED WITH THE SYMBOLS MORE THAN ANYTHING. (FACT)

3) THE LANGUAGE IS ONE OF THE 4 ITEMS LISTED UNDER ANTIGRAVITY IN THE PACL DOCUMENT. (FACT)

4) ISAAC RECOGNIZED THEM THE MOMENT HE SAW THEM IN THE PHOTOS. (FACT)


That is what I based my conclusion on i.e. that the Big Basin Drone has the language on them which Isaac recognized instantly as being the same that he worked on while studying the anti-gravity device.

This in turn led me to the conclusion I stated and which I also said was based on facts. I.e. that the, “Language” on the Big Basin Drone was DIRECTLY associated with the anti-gravity device as Isaac said he worked with the symbols more than anything WHICH ARE ONE OF THE FOUR ITEMS LISTED AS, “ANTI-GRAVITY” IN THE PACL REPORT. So it was this, “Language” he studied mostly during his work with anti-gravity and as a direct result he recognized this, “Language” instantly.

I hope that helps to clarify why I think (according to Isaac) that the Drones utilize the antigravity device.

So what’s your take on it Marvin?

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY WHERE’S VON (THE INSTIGATOR) STERN!!
grin laugh



Hi DrDil,

I did a lot of rereading today.

I think Isaac was talking about antigrav and then "something completely unrelated" is what Isaac was seeing in the photos. The language.

I have lost track of how many times I have read this now, I guess I just need to keep reading it. Strangely, it is starting to make more sense. I have set up a number of "what ifs" and read it again. I am still mad it is not an easy read, and that it is not totally clear. But I will keep reading. Maybe I am just getting old. smiley


I have to admit, I agree with you. Great work as always DrDil.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 11th, 2007, 8:48pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 4:04pm, Latitude wrote:
That is for you to decide. I still believe something may be going on in there. The cage interior has too many weird and different things showing from pic to pic. None of the other parts act that way. Is it only an optical illusion? Maybe. Somebody somewhere mentioned something about the BB drone cage but I can't remember what it was. If anybody finds it please post.


We said lots about the cage... at one point I thought that the drone could pick up things into the cage... maybe animals? Cattle for mutilations? Your avatar actually looks almost like a cow head (seriously)

Maybe it comes down... the arms open out, it locks whatever in, and then the arms fold back up. Maybe even like a three-tier cage. There are three cages within a cage.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by notafulldeck on Sep 11th, 2007, 10:18pm

Hi everyone...new here.
Had an idea. When an investigation seems to stall I've always felt it helpful to try and identify a new angle of interest. Instead of focusing on the existence of the Drones, why not shift the focus to the concern the DoD might have? The significant increase in decloaking incidents recently. Isaac PRESUMED the decloaking was related to devices he was aware of from the past - he never acknowledged any direct confirmation of this supposition. With the continuing advances in our earthly technology, (including advent of varying levels of wireless local networks, and 4G wireless) who is to say that the decloaking incidents weren't triggered by an event/technology which may be earthly in nature, and which may be increasingly present as are the frequency of sightings in recent times. With this focus in mind, might we not then be interested in looking for different clues, such as geographical location and known/likely technologies within that area, proximity to technology (power lines of varying intensities - such as transmission vs local), time of day, duration of siting, frequency object was reappearing in instances where that was claimed? Just to name a few. Might this angle of investigation, one which the DoD would be focusing on, shed new ideas for further study? Sorry if this had been addressed initially, I have not seen this angle discussed across any of the boards.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 11th, 2007, 10:19pm

It always amazes me as I read through the posts how extraordinarily insightful and intelligent our members are. Really, the quality of research that's been done here is truly amazing. Kudos to the team smiley!

(And I freely admit that it's quite a bit to wrap my head around at times wink)
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Sep 12th, 2007, 05:36am

on Sep 11th, 2007, 4:27pm, newtothis wrote:
Castles4me, have you found any more reports that occurred at the same time as the drone sightings?

Isaac said, in reference to the invisibility cloak being jammed: "God knows what else was suddenly appearing in the skies at that moment, and who else may have seen it."

I know that this report was in the same area and on the same day as the BB pics were taken.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/pleasonton.html

Seems like those craft had the same cloaking technology...

Thanks!


Whatever it was that jammed the cloaking technology it had quite a range. Pleasanton, CA is approximately 60 miles from Big Basin.

on Sep 11th, 2007, 10:18pm, notafulldeck wrote:
The significant increase in decloaking incidents recently. Isaac PRESUMED the decloaking was related to devices he was aware of from the past - he never acknowledged any direct confirmation of this supposition. With the continuing advances in our earthly technology, (including advent of varying levels of wireless local networks, and 4G wireless) who is to say that the decloaking incidents weren't triggered by an event/technology which may be earthly in nature, and which may be increasingly present as are the frequency of sightings in recent times. With this focus in mind, might we not then be interested in looking for different clues, such as geographical location and known/likely technologies within that area, proximity to technology (power lines of varying intensities - such as transmission vs local), time of day, duration of siting, frequency object was reappearing in instances where that was claimed?


I believe that this would be very difficult to do. There is a ton of various technology companies, universities, and military bases in the Silicon Valley area that could be involved with technology that can accidentally or intentionally disrupt the drone's cloaking capabilities. Technology companies certainly won't be sharing or advertising all their projects currently in research and development labs. It would even be more difficult, if next to impossible, to obtain this type of information if it was supported by the military. I like your idea; however, I'm skeptical that we'd be able to pull it off because there to many unknowns involved.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 12th, 2007, 08:36am

on Sep 11th, 2007, 10:18pm, notafulldeck wrote:
Hi everyone...new here.
Had an idea. When an investigation seems to stall I've always felt it helpful to try and identify a new angle of interest. Instead of focusing on the existence of the Drones, why not shift the focus to the concern the DoD might have? The significant increase in decloaking incidents recently. Isaac PRESUMED the decloaking was related to devices he was aware of from the past - he never acknowledged any direct confirmation of this supposition. With the continuing advances in our earthly technology, (including advent of varying levels of wireless local networks, and 4G wireless) who is to say that the decloaking incidents weren't triggered by an event/technology which may be earthly in nature, and which may be increasingly present as are the frequency of sightings in recent times. With this focus in mind, might we not then be interested in looking for different clues, such as geographical location and known/likely technologies within that area, proximity to technology (power lines of varying intensities - such as transmission vs local), time of day, duration of siting, frequency object was reappearing in instances where that was claimed? Just to name a few. Might this angle of investigation, one which the DoD would be focusing on, shed new ideas for further study? Sorry if this had been addressed initially, I have not seen this angle discussed across any of the boards.


yes, true... thats why I keep saying to people to re-read the Isaac documents with a fresh mind. There is something else we can discuss. Something new will pop out.

As for your topic. We have discussed things like HAARP, power grids, and solar flares. I think someone said that the sun had some major solar flare ups at that time... that can cause things to go on the fritz. I don't think anyone pin-pointed anything concrete.... but would be a good thing to research. I remember looking up solar flares on that day on a website before, but I can't remember which one now. -- it would let you search for the day. I was looking at June 5 mostly.

But yeah... so many military bases and secret laboratories and techno industry are all in that area... no telling WHAT it could be!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Sep 12th, 2007, 12:23pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 05:36am, drewlac wrote:
Whatever it was that jammed the cloaking technology it had quite a range. Pleasanton, CA is approximately 60 miles from Big Basin.


Well it is 60 miles driving, but about 40 as the crow flies. Also, Isaac stated:

"It's no surprise that these sightings are all taking place in California, and especially the Saratoga/South Bay area. Not far from Saratoga is Mountain View/Sunnyvale, home to Moffett Field and the NASA Ames Research center. Again, I'd be willing to bet just about anything that the device capable of hijacking the cloaking of these nearby craft was inadvertently triggered, probably during some kind of experiment, at the exact moment they were being seen. Miles away, in Big Basin, the witnesses were in the right place at the right time and saw the results of this disruption with their own eyes."

Pleasonton is only 21 miles from Sunnyvale and Big Basin is only 18 miles. Capitola is 27 miles away from Sunnyvale, but Bakersfield is over 200 miles. I have no idea what kind of range the jamming device would have, but there could be other similar facilities near LA...

I am trying to find some kind of technology that might be capable of what isaac talks about.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 12th, 2007, 12:34pm

Sometimes I check out ats to see if any real thinkers attempt to post there. Sometimes it gets funny. Here's a post from a guy who questions ATS's motives after a guy was banned for saying he saw a drone.
Quote:
Why is it, that in the back of my mind like a tickle, I have this weird thought of "What the hell am I going to do if when I'm driving to work tomorrow and there, above the cornfield, is a god xxxxed drone?"

Why take a picture? The only place I'd show it is here...we KNOW how that would be received.

How could I even SAY I saw it? I'd get banned before my hat hit the ground just for bringing it up!

Every day, on the drive to work, I scan the scenery just KNOWING my Murphy genes are going to kick in and there it will be, hovering over the undeveloped landscape in west Lake County, Illinois. It's almost a full blown fear! It would totally suck! I could never tell you guys here, or I'll be reading without the ability to post! What a living nightmare!

So I want you all to know-
If I EVER see the drone, don't expect me to tell you the tale. I like my membership too much to risk.

What does that tell ya?

Cuhail

is this a drone in the year 1923???
Post by peter1977 on Sep 12th, 2007, 12:58pm

Hi there,

I don't post that much but I still keep on reading about the drones in this topic. I'm watching a movie called "secret space" on youtube. I'm downloading the torrent well but so far I only have the youtube clips to watch (so low quality).
In this video on 6.01 min. it seems that there's a drone. Maybe someone who has the high quality vid of "secret space" can have a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYcI5UadyNA&mode=related&search=

It's a picture of a drone (huh) in the year 1923.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by urantia606 on Sep 12th, 2007, 1:50pm

I've got several garage door openers, radar detecters and old TV remotes.

I'm going to link them all together into one huge device powered by a 12 volt car battery.

When this is done my brother and I are driving up to Big Basin and switch them on all at once and see what happens.

If you don't hear from me again right away, you'll know why.




Re: is this a drone in the year 1923???
Post by castles4me on Sep 12th, 2007, 2:07pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 12:58pm, peter1977 wrote:
Hi there,

I don't post that much but I still keep on reading about the drones in this topic. I'm watching a movie called "secret space" on youtube. I'm downloading the torrent well but so far I only have the youtube clips to watch (so low quality).
In this video on 6.01 min. it seems that there's a drone. Maybe someone who has the high quality vid of "secret space" can have a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYcI5UadyNA&mode=related&search=

It's a picture of a drone (huh) in the year 1923.


User Image

whoopsie my hand got in the way lol

IT could be "dronish" or a "hat" UFO.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 12th, 2007, 2:10pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 1:50pm, urantia606 wrote:
I've got several garage door openers, radar detecters and old TV remotes.

I'm going to link them all together into one huge device powered by a 12 volt car battery.

When this is done my brother and I are driving up to Big Basin and switch them on all at once and see what happens.

If you don't hear from me again right away, you'll know why.



Don't forget your jumper cables.... if you hook the positive to your left ear and the negative to your right ear and hold your mouth just right -- you MIGHT see a drone. Oh, and don't forget to snap a picture (before you get electrocuted)
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 12th, 2007, 2:20pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 1:50pm, urantia606 wrote:
I've got several garage door openers, radar detecters and old TV remotes.

I'm going to link them all together into one huge device powered by a 12 volt car battery.

When this is done my brother and I are driving up to Big Basin and switch them on all at once and see what happens.

If you don't hear from me again right away, you'll know why.

That's the spirit! smiley

In fact, you should borrow Tesla's coil and make some sparks... that'll cover much more EM spectrum smiley
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 12th, 2007, 2:36pm

All this talk of the, “Decloaking” device reminded me of a (light-hearted) Drone quiz I posted on OMF a while ago……………… wink

Quote:
Q5) Does Isaac think the recent sightings can be explained because:

A: He released all of the images.
B: The new kid at work keeps flicking the UFO decloack (clacking?) switch.
C: There were more cameras available between May & July 2007 than ever before.

Re: is this a drone in the year 1923???
Post by onthefence55 on Sep 12th, 2007, 2:38pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 2:07pm, castles4me wrote:
IT could be "dronish" or a "hat" UFO.


I think he meant this one a few seconds after your image.

User Image

There does appear to be something on top (like spires), but it's still very questionable.
Re: is this a drone in the year 1923???
Post by castles4me on Sep 12th, 2007, 2:56pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 2:38pm, onthefence55 wrote:
I think he meant this one a few seconds after your image.

User Image

There does appear to be something on top (like spires), but it's still very questionable.


That is the same image -- I just did a screen capture of a close-up.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 12th, 2007, 2:58pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 2:36pm, DrDil wrote:
All this talk of the, “Decloaking” device reminded me of a (light-hearted) Drone quiz I posted on OMF a while ago……………… wink



THAT'S what we need.... a declacking device!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 12th, 2007, 3:13pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 2:58pm, castles4me wrote:
THAT'S what we need.... a declacking device!


So, what do you think Castles, did Isaac simply make a spelling mistake? (That's what I thought wink)
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 12th, 2007, 4:06pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 3:13pm, DrDil wrote:
So, what do you think Castles, did Isaac simply make a spelling mistake? (That's what I thought wink)


The guy typed that whole dissertation without the use of a spell checker. Not bad.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 12th, 2007, 4:15pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 4:06pm, Latitude wrote:
The guy typed that whole dissertation without the use of a spell checker. Not bad.


Hi Lat and I'm sorry, but I just have to ask, how do you know he wasn’t using a spellchecker? I think I may have missed something.

Edit to add: It’s the third line down in last paragraph, just before the section titled, “The CARET Program” in the typed message that accompanied Isaacs release of documents.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by peter1977 on Sep 12th, 2007, 4:45pm

I have downloaded the torrent and used mp-classic to extract some images. The quality is not that good but the objects on these 2 pictures could be dronisch. Does anyone know where to find the original images? I hope that they show more detail!

User Image

User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by urantia606 on Sep 12th, 2007, 5:06pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 2:10pm, castles4me wrote:
Don't forget your jumper cables.... if you hook the positive to your left ear and the negative to your right ear and hold your mouth just right -- you MIGHT see a drone. Oh, and don't forget to snap a picture (before you get electrocuted)


Great idea about the jumper cables. I never thought of that. If that doesn't work I may try the alternate attachment points and see what happens. If that idea goes sour it may mean no more children?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 12th, 2007, 5:08pm

That 1923 drone profile looks a lot like the one "BeanieWeenie" captured way back. have to go digging when I get a minute!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 12th, 2007, 5:40pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 4:15pm, DrDil wrote:
Hi Lat and I'm sorry, but I just have to ask, how do you know he wasn’t using a spellchecker? I think I may have missed something.

Edit to add: It’s the third line down in last paragraph, just before the section titled, “The CARET Program” in the typed message that accompanied Isaacs release of documents.


I just thought that the word "clacking" would have been flagged as incorrect. But I just checked it and I guess I assumed wrong. Clacking is a word. My mistake.
Quote:
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source clack (klâk) Pronunciation Key
v. clacked, clack·ing, clacks

v. intr.

To make an abrupt, sharp sound, as in the collision of two hard surfaces.
To chatter thoughtlessly or at length.
To cackle or cluck, as a hen.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 12th, 2007, 5:55pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 5:40pm, Latitude wrote:
I just thought that the word "clacking" would have been flagged as incorrect. But I just checked it and I guess I assumed wrong. Clacking is a word. My mistake.


I wasn’t being sarcastic, that’s what I honestly thought that it was merely a spelling mistake, hey it’s one for your side!! Wouldn't it mean that no one proof-read it, further evidence Isaac worked alone cool, hmm, or it could be a pre-emptive and deliberate error by the hoaxer. shocked grin

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 12th, 2007, 6:41pm

Marvin and I have been over at the Mufon forum trying to get some answers. It seems we may have called some attention to the subject. The guy over there is quoting Mufon policy of only investigating when a witness contacts them. So I pointed out that they did have a witness, Tahoe wife #7013.

So lets say that Mufon did contact Tahoe wife and she gave them a complete report. Would they then be compelled to pursue the investigation further by attempting to contact other non-mufon witnesses? They did make a link between Tahoe wife and Chad.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 12th, 2007, 6:51pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 5:08pm, MarkM wrote:
That 1923 drone profile looks a lot like the one "BeanieWeenie" captured way back. have to go digging when I get a minute!


that's exactly what I was thinking too Mark
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 12th, 2007, 6:54pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 6:41pm, Latitude wrote:
Marvin and I have been over at the Mufon forum trying to get some answers. It seems we may have called some attention to the subject. The guy over there is quoting Mufon policy of only investigating when a witness contacts them. So I pointed out that they did have a witness, Tahoe wife #7013.

So lets say that Mufon did contact Tahoe wife and she gave them a complete report. Would they then be compelled to pursue the investigation further by attempting to contact other non-mufon witnesses? They did make a link between Tahoe wife and Chad.


Very good Lat. Let us know what happens! That sounds logical captain.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 12th, 2007, 7:05pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 6:41pm, Latitude wrote:
Marvin and I have been over at the Mufon forum trying to get some answers. It seems we may have called some attention to the subject. The guy over there is quoting Mufon policy of only investigating when a witness contacts them. So I pointed out that they did have a witness, Tahoe wife #7013.

So lets say that Mufon did contact Tahoe wife and she gave them a complete report. Would they then be compelled to pursue the investigation further by attempting to contact other non-mufon witnesses? They did make a link between Tahoe wife and Chad.


And interestingly have you checked the case numbers for both of these sightings? (I’m sure these are the ones that are identical case numbers.)

And MUFON has stated that with regards to Chad & Lake Tahoe:

“I have still sent a request to the above witness Email address wishing a interview, following Mufon investigative procedures. I plan to play this interview 'dumb smart' (if it ever occurs - but hope so) wishing to glean any further information if possible and post it here. It maybe possible these images submitted were hoaxed by someone else, rather than by the witnesses themselves.

As of May 16, 2007, I have not recieved any reply from these witnesses. ”

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by notafulldeck on Sep 12th, 2007, 9:53pm

Going back to what Isaac commented - 'they may have accidentally triggered a known decloaking device that he knew of from the past.' But what if the decloaking incidents are created inadvertantly from our advancing technologies? I understand the number of variables here is absurd for us to fully persue, but it can still create some questions - The Birmingham siting in '06, does anyone know if there is any known technology/military base/power/nuclear plant/tech company associated with that geographical location which may share a common link with the CA area which we have been focusing on?
Also as a side note: anyone heard anything more about last name 'McKinley' for one of the witnesses - a thread stated when they ran that name to the city associated and they only got two hits, both same age, and presumed it was the same guy at two addresses(one previous and one present)? I think they connected that name to Chad if I recall correctly.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 12th, 2007, 10:33pm

on Sep 12th, 2007, 9:53pm, notafulldeck wrote:
Going back to what Isaac commented - 'they may have accidentally triggered a known decloaking device that he knew of from the past.' But what if the decloaking incidents are created inadvertantly from our advancing technologies? I understand the number of variables here is absurd for us to fully persue, but it can still create some questions - The Birmingham siting in '06, does anyone know if there is any known technology/military base/power/nuclear plant/tech company associated with that geographical location which may share a common link with the CA area which we have been focusing on?
Also as a side note: anyone heard anything more about last name 'McKinley' for one of the witnesses - a thread stated when they ran that name to the city associated and they only got two hits, both same age, and presumed it was the same guy at two addresses(one previous and one present)? I think they connected that name to Chad if I recall correctly.


In one of the sightings the guard was dealing with high-frequency infrared technology. wasn't it??
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Sep 13th, 2007, 01:10am

on Sep 12th, 2007, 9:53pm, notafulldeck wrote:
Going back to what Isaac commented - 'they may have accidentally triggered a known decloaking device that he knew of from the past.' But what if the decloaking incidents are created inadvertantly from our advancing technologies? I understand the number of variables here is absurd for us to fully persue, but it can still create some questions - The Birmingham siting in '06, does anyone know if there is any known technology/military base/power/nuclear plant/tech company associated with that geographical location which may share a common link with the CA area which we have been focusing on?


He mentioned the NASA Ames Research Center/Moffett Field specifically. I was looking around in google maps at the pinpoints they have and found Interfermoter which after some more digging got me to "Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory".
When you google that for California, you get this:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=California+Gravitational+Observatory&ie=UTF8&ll=38.702659,-119.223633&spn=7.901795,14.941406&z=6&om=1

Check out where the pinpoint J takes you!

I just now found that, but earlier in the day I was looking for the technology involved with interferometry, trying to find a link to NASA ARC and got this:

http://sbir.gsfc.nasa.gov/SBIR/successes/ss/5-064text.html

At the bottom right of that page, you will find Applications. I searched the bottom item, Synthetic-aperture-radar (SAR) interferometry and got to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_aperture_radar

These SAR devices are attached to planes, which explains why Isaac mentioned Moffett field. Probably just a really big coincidence, but... Near the bottom under the Data Collection, the 1st paragraph talks about it's attempted use with NASA in 1986. That would be the right time for Isaac to be aware of it.

Sorry so long, but my ADD kicked into high gear!



Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 13th, 2007, 03:53am

on Sep 12th, 2007, 6:41pm, Latitude wrote:
Marvin and I have been over at the Mufon forum trying to get some answers. It seems we may have called some attention to the subject. The guy over there is quoting Mufon policy of only investigating when a witness contacts them. So I pointed out that they did have a witness, Tahoe wife #7013.

So lets say that Mufon did contact Tahoe wife and she gave them a complete report. Would they then be compelled to pursue the investigation further by attempting to contact other non-mufon witnesses? They did make a link between Tahoe wife and Chad.


When MUFON's report came out, LMH was fast to respond and I must give her credit for that. She counted every drone sighting known to her for the past 20 years implying that wider investigation is necessary. And what was Mr. Murillo's response? Quote:
Correction to all. I did not forward _my_ investigation nor did
I imply that I conducted the investigation. I forwarded an
investigation conducted by Steve Reichmuth, the Northern
California State Section Director for MUFON.

Please read the e-mail _carefully_.

Well, it's true that LMH addressed the wrong person in her hasty reply, but this translates to 'none of my business' - not really a fit response for MUFON executive interested in research of the UFO phenomena, don't you think?

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but they are saying that MUFON wouldn't care for some 'White House lawn UFO landing' rumor that is all over the news until someone reports it through their CMS? I don't think so.

Could you kindly point this out at MUFON forum: Their 3-day investigation was biased, unprofessional and inconclusive without gathering all the evidence at hand. How did they conduct it, over the phone? At lunch? Their claim that other sightings weren't reported is pathetic and not an excuse (see example above). They were informed by LMH (in public!) that more evidence and witnesses are available, and they did nothing. Even if all drone images were hoaxed, they should look at all of them and declare them so one by one, clearly stating why.

And one more thing - they didn't really need CG experts to verify Chad's claims. He said he was seeing drones all the time through his window - why didn't they pay him a visit? But no... it's much easier to declare it as CG in one afternoon and forget all about it. Shame on you, MUFONs!

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Sep 13th, 2007, 05:05am

on Sep 13th, 2007, 03:53am, nekitamo wrote:
When MUFON's report came out, LMH was fast to respond and I must give her credit for that. She counted every drone sighting known to her for the past 20 years implying that wider investigation is necessary. And what was Mr. Murillo's response?
Well, it's true that LMH addressed the wrong person in her hasty reply, but this translates to 'none of my business' - not really a fit response for MUFON executive interested in research of the UFO phenomena, don't you think?

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but they are saying that MUFON wouldn't care for some 'White House lawn UFO landing' rumor that is all over the news until someone reports it through their CMS? I don't think so.

Could you kindly point this out at MUFON forum: Their 3-day investigation was biased, unprofessional and inconclusive without gathering all the evidence at hand. How did they conduct it, over the phone? At lunch? Their claim that other sightings weren't reported is pathetic and not an excuse (see example above). They were informed by LMH (in public!) that more evidence and witnesses are available, and they did nothing. Even if all drone images were hoaxed, they should look at all of them and declare them so one by one, clearly stating why.

And one more thing - they didn't really need CG experts to verify Chad's claims. He said he was seeing drones all the time through his window - why didn't they pay him a visit? But no... it's much easier to declare it as CG in one afternoon and forget all about it. Shame on you, MUFONs!


I don't know the details of the investigation but when the witness contacted MUFON (how was that made known?) was it merely an anonymous submission of photos, an e-mail with links to photos, was there actually a person to interview? Did a meeting take place and was the witness interviewed? Did the witness request an interview? Or did the witness merely submit photos and not request an interview?

Anyone can submit photos to Mufon but that does not constitute an investigation.

So what exactly did this witness request? What were the comments to Mufon? Was it merely a submission of photos by e-mail? Was there ever a request for a personal interview? If it was only an anonymous submission of photos by someone with a screen name that would leave Mufon without much to go on. As far as a continued investigation based on Internet information, not likely.

Also, I would not expect much from the Mufon BB. Lately it seems to be dominated by the fringe element and I see where many of the original mainstream rational contributors have dropped out.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 13th, 2007, 07:46am

on Sep 12th, 2007, 5:40pm, Latitude wrote:
I just thought that the word "clacking" would have been flagged as incorrect. But I just checked it and I guess I assumed wrong. Clacking is a word. My mistake.


Also:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/clacking
2. clack - a simple valve with a hinge on one side; allows fluid to flow in only one direction

It seems to my old memory that clacking is also a term for a signal sent out to an aircraft transponder, looking for an ID bounce back... as in to clack a unknown to see if it is a friendly.

What Isaac maybe referring to is a specific frequency signal that acts like an off switch? If true, you may have to be in the "near microwave" to do it. LOL finding the correct frequency. grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 13th, 2007, 09:05am

on Sep 13th, 2007, 01:10am, newtothis wrote:
He mentioned the NASA Ames Research Center/Moffett Field specifically. I was looking around in google maps at the pinpoints they have and found Interfermoter which after some more digging got me to "Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory".
When you google that for California, you get this:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=California+Gravitational+Observatory&ie=UTF8&ll=38.702659,-119.223633&spn=7.901795,14.941406&z=6&om=1

Check out where the pinpoint J takes you!

I just now found that, but earlier in the day I was looking for the technology involved with interferometry, trying to find a link to NASA ARC and got this:

http://sbir.gsfc.nasa.gov/SBIR/successes/ss/5-064text.html

At the bottom right of that page, you will find Applications. I searched the bottom item, Synthetic-aperture-radar (SAR) interferometry and got to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_aperture_radar

These SAR devices are attached to planes, which explains why Isaac mentioned Moffett field. Probably just a really big coincidence, but... Near the bottom under the Data Collection, the 1st paragraph talks about it's attempted use with NASA in 1986. That would be the right time for Isaac to be aware of it.

Sorry so long, but my ADD kicked into high gear!



Very good research Newt. I am going to look into those links.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 13th, 2007, 10:06am

on Sep 13th, 2007, 01:10am, newtothis wrote:
He mentioned the NASA Ames Research Center/Moffett Field specifically. I was looking around in google maps at the pinpoints they have and found Interfermoter which after some more digging got me to "Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory".
When you google that for California, you get this:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=California+Gravitational+Observatory&ie=UTF8&ll=38.702659,-119.223633&spn=7.901795,14.941406&z=6&om=1



There is a lot of stuff on that map that you don't see grin (especially the grayed out areas). The gray area in Nevada is the infamous Nellis Test range, home to something better known as Dreamland or Area 51.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=extraterrestrial+highway&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.737461,58.447266&ie=UTF8&ll=37.263944,-115.801392&spn=0.120496,0.22831&t=k&z=12&iwloc=D&om=1



This is a busy region. A prime location to observe us... or to conduct a "test."
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 13th, 2007, 10:18am

on Sep 13th, 2007, 05:05am, Gort wrote:
Also, I would not expect much from the Mufon BB. Lately it seems to be dominated by the fringe element and I see where many of the original mainstream rational contributors have dropped out.

Well, perhaps we are just uninformed. There is no official MUFFON statement on this case, all we got was some indirect info. I've set to find out more and discovered this info about Steve Reichmuth, the man that allegedly investigated this case for MUFON:

Steve Reichmuth, SSD-Alameda Co., (925) 779-9578, skipjack@earthlink.net
website: http://uforesearcher.com/
Forums: http://forums.uforesearcher.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

His website is off-line, but the forum works and I've found this topic:

Explanation of the strange drone craft (Capitola etc) sightings?

In short, some forum member has just found Isaac's pages and he is quite amazed with them, so he asks what's the progress with this case. Forum admin steven (Steve Reichmuth?) gives him this reply - Quote:
I am involved to a degree with this case, especially the Capitola, and the Lake Tahoe images.

NOAA satellite images collected in this case's file on the same day of the so called Capitola images were taken....show & clearly prove the weather in Capitola, California ALL DAY was raining and heavy over cast. In the Capitola images - show clear blue skies.

The reports surrounding this and other such objects is a hoax. Chad, Rajman have been ID'ed as the same individual. All the photo experts within Mufon and two 'outside' people in the computer generated image special effects industry in 'Hollywood', and are involved in UFO research as well (so they could not be considered debunkers)...also state they are a hoax too.

It could be an elaborate internet dis-information campaign of late after the attention given in the media to the extraordinary Chicago O'Hare sighting early this year.

It is conclusively all LMH 'BS'.

Well... there you go. It is all just LMH 'BS' for MUFON - case closed. Does this mean that MUFON won't touch this case any more because LMH is involved? Seems likely... I wasn't happy too when she took over.

Perhaps we should contact Steve and find out more.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 13th, 2007, 10:31am

on Sep 13th, 2007, 09:05am, castles4me wrote:
Very good research Newt. I am going to look into those links.


Ok very interesting stuff.

Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory (LIGO) was the project that began 1984-1987 by Kip Thorne,
The Feynman Professor of Theoretical Physics, California Institute of Technology

from their website http://www.cgu.edu/pages/1293.asp
"Thorne's research has focused on Einstein's general theory of relativity and on astrophysics, with an emphasis on black holes and gravitational waves. Thorne initiated modern research on whether the laws of physics permit the existence of wormholes. In 1984, he cofounded the Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory (LIGO) Project-the largest project ever funded by the National Science Foundation. The project is designed to allow scientists to "see" the gravitational waves predicted by Einstein's relativity theory. LIGO will begin its search for cosmic gravitational waves this summer."

(it doesn't say when this was printed -- but "this summer" I wonder if it was this year?)

They have two locations for the LIGO facilities, one in Washington and one in Louisiana -- interestingly I found on the Louisiana one that their system went on the blink the first week in May -- althought the facility is in Louisiana, it could have affected things in california?? (hmmm weren't chad sightings in May 5?)
from their website http://www.ligo.caltech.edu/~ll_news/0607a_news/L1_progress.htm
"The bad news began on the morning of May 2 when LLO operators realized that one of L1’s 10-kg mirrors, ITMY (above left), had become immobilized on its suspension mount, rendering the interferometer uncontrollable. A large seismic impulse apparently lodged the mirror on several of its viton-tipped earthquake stops. Staff members began a series of interventions from the control room that became more serious over the following two days as the mirror refused to swing free. On May 5 the method of last resort was employed – a full vent of the chamber, removal of the chamber door and entry into the chamber by garbed personnel (above right) who manually dislodged the mirror. Following chamber closure and a 72-hour pump down, the gate valves that isolated the vented region were re-opened and interferometer operations were restored."

Of course, check out Newt's posted link to this NASA site that uses the interferometer for "Spacecraft Formation Control with Direct Interferometer-Output Feedback"
http://sbir.gsfc.nasa.gov/SBIR/successes/ss/5-064text.html

So if the main LIGO was having problems and went offline on May 5 -- and they worked to repair it, I guess it is probable that several different instances it went offline. And, if this is what NASA uses for spacecraft formation control, it is possible it interfered with the Drone formation control. eh??

From the NASA site at the bottom where you see Instrumentation, Sensors, Space Systems you can reference the different companies using the technology, many in California. Anyone of them could be using the technology that decloaked the drones!! Main one with a direct link on the main page of the NASA site is Optimal Synthesis, Inc. Los Altos CA -- a list of their projects here http://www.optisyn.com/ps/projects/projects.html


A different kind of technology in the area:

Also, in researching AMES research center at Moffett Field... I ran across a NEW facility there entitled the Bio-Info-Nano R&D Institute -- ok, here we have a NEW Nano technology research institute and it says that they begin THIS SUMMER (so maybe some kind of nano technology triggered the decloaking) from their website http://www.bioinfonano.org/about-us/

"The Bio | Info | Nano R & D Institute assembles the extensive research talents of UC Santa Cruz , NASA Ames Research Center, and industrial affiliates like Hewlett-Packard to engage in research at the cutting edge of “convergence science.” This represents the nexus of multiple disciplines, where biologists, physicists, chemical engineers, and others work together to develop next generation technologies. The applications developed at this specialized institute will leverage the Silicon Valley's powerful innovative spirit and unique resource base.

A key program of the Institute is the BIN Energy Initiative, a growing consortium of organizations using novel processes and exotic technologies to build realistic, sustainable alternatives to hydrocarbon fossil fuels. For example, our partner company Solexant is working with UCSC faculty, including Sue Carter’s group, to develop a nano-enabled coating that promises to increase efficiency while lowering the cost of solar cells.

The Institute is truly the place where biology, information technology, and nanotech meet! BIN-RDI will commence operations in summer 2007 at the Advanced Studies Laboratories.
"







Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 13th, 2007, 10:50am

From another thread at Steve Reichmuth's forum - Quote:
I apologize. I had to delete my posts related to the Capitola BS on the net. I shared publicly some of my findings, and Mufon thought it was premature to do so. I have saved the posts. Mufon thinks I should keep quiet publicly about the Capitola bogus images till the appropriate time. My passion in preventing seeing people deceived and perhaps manipulated by an unknown individual or agency on the Internet was my motive for posting my findings. [Frown] It is no big deal, but when the time is right, I will spill all I know within my small station in this.

This computer generated image stuff has been the strangest case yet, and it does not even involve aliens!..but the internet! Bottom line...the images have all been checked by 4 experts, and all the images are all bogus as hell. lol

Steve

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 13th, 2007, 11:15am

User Image

The above is a radar image of California on 16-May-2007 at 1700 hours (5 PM) from the NOAA archives.

You can access this at:

http://www4.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-win/wwcgi.dll?WWNEXRAD~Images2

When you get to the national map, click on the region to enlarge.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 13th, 2007, 11:24am

on Sep 13th, 2007, 10:18am, nekitamo wrote:
In short, some forum member has just found Isaac's pages and he is quite amazed with them, so he asks what's the progress with this case. Forum admin steven (Steve Reichmuth?) gives him this reply -
Well... there you go. It is all just LMH 'BS' for MUFON - case closed. Does this mean that MUFON won't touch this case any more because LMH is involved? Seems likely... I wasn't happy too when she took over.
Quote:
NOAA satellite images collected in this case's file on the same day of the so called Capitola images were taken....show & clearly prove the weather in Capitola, California ALL DAY was raining and heavy over cast. In the Capitola images - show clear blue skies.


This report is bogus as hell. Here is the weather report for that day. http://tinyurl.com/2xert6

It says plain as day, clear sky with a 10 mile visiblitiy and no rain all day.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Nodnunk on Sep 13th, 2007, 11:45am

Another satellite weather map for May 16, 2007 at about 17:00 PDT. Looks like the California coast is pretty clear in this image.

http://virga.sfsu.edu/pub/composites/sathts_snd/0705/07051700_sathts_snd_alt.gif


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 13th, 2007, 12:52pm

Great job Latitude and Nodnunk!

To me, the statement that it was raining and cloudy at that time just proves one of two things, 1) this was a debunk by someone who was clueless (and not interested in the facts), or 2) they were sloppy in researching this data and reported the weather for the wrong location or the wrong day.

In either case, one can not say this is a hoax because it should have been raining.

Great work!

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Sep 13th, 2007, 12:54pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 11:45am, Nodnunk wrote:
Another satellite weather map for May 16, 2007 at about 17:00 PDT. Looks like the California coast is pretty clear in this image.

http://virga.sfsu.edu/pub/composites/sathts_snd/0705/07051700_sathts_snd_alt.gif



Doesn't mean anything at a local level. Any fisherman could tell you that.
Instead of mouthing off on the Internet why don't you contact your local Mufon field investigator and present to him whatever evidence you have. If you have bona fide, hard copy, scientific (reproducible) data then by all means bring it forth. If this is just some Internet BS that is not verifiable it's worthless. Anybody can say anything on the Internet. As long as this "case" remains in the domain of the Internet it can only be taken for whatever that is worth. In other words it can be entirely true or it can be entirely fictitious there is no way to verify one way or the other. Contact Steve or better yet contact Isaac or the witnesses give us real people with real names. nodnunk

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Sep 13th, 2007, 1:31pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 10:31am, castles4me wrote:
"The Bio | Info | Nano R & D Institute assembles the extensive research talents of UC Santa Cruz , NASA Ames Research Center, and industrial affiliates like Hewlett-Packard to engage in research at the cutting edge of “convergence science.” This represents the nexus of multiple disciplines, where biologists, physicists, chemical engineers, and others work together to develop next generation technologies. The applications developed at this specialized institute will leverage the Silicon Valley's powerful innovative spirit and unique resource base.

A key program of the Institute is the BIN Energy Initiative, a growing consortium of organizations using novel processes and exotic technologies to build realistic, sustainable alternatives to hydrocarbon fossil fuels.
BIN-RDI will commence operations in summer 2007 at the Advanced Studies Laboratories.
"


Sounds like a 2007 version of Isaac's group!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Zareste on Sep 13th, 2007, 1:42pm

this thread is really cluttering the 'recent posts' area. Personally I'd have it locked. Quit feeding the trolls by drawing attention to this annoying joke
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 13th, 2007, 1:52pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 1:42pm, Zareste wrote:
this thread is really cluttering the 'recent posts' area. Personally I'd have it locked. Quit feeding the trolls by drawing attention to this annoying joke


hungry guys??

Let's see, there's ATO, MarkM, Me and DrDil lol
User Image

(sorry, just trolling for a laugh here)


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Nodnunk on Sep 13th, 2007, 3:12pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 12:54pm, Gort wrote:
Instead of mouthing off on the Internet why don't you contact your local Mufon field investigator and present to him whatever evidence you have.



Why bother, MUFON's mind is made up: It is conclusively all LMH 'BS'
End of story.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 13th, 2007, 3:45pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 12:52pm, Marvin wrote:
...one can not say this is a hoax because it should have been raining...

Actually, radar and infrared images provided here are inconclusive.
We need visible light images, preferably with at least this much resolution (current time only):

http://www.wunderground.com/satellite/vis/1k/US/CA/Capitola.html

This map is great, you can switch between visible/infrared light with or without radar overlay.
Try it and see for yourself what I'm talking about - only visible light counts.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 13th, 2007, 4:01pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 10:31am, castles4me wrote:
Ok very interesting stuff.

Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory (LIGO) was the project that began 1984-1987 by Kip Thorne,
The Feynman Professor of Theoretical Physics, California Institute of Technology

from their website http://www.cgu.edu/pages/1293.asp
"Thorne's research has focused on Einstein's general theory of relativity and on astrophysics, with an emphasis on black holes and gravitational waves. Thorne initiated modern research on whether the laws of physics permit the existence of wormholes. In 1984, he cofounded the Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory (LIGO) Project-the largest project ever funded by the National Science Foundation. The project is designed to allow scientists to "see" the gravitational waves predicted by Einstein's relativity theory. LIGO will begin its search for cosmic gravitational waves this summer."

(it doesn't say when this was printed -- but "this summer" I wonder if it was this year?)

They have two locations for the LIGO facilities, one in Washington and one in Louisiana -- interestingly I found on the Louisiana one that their system went on the blink the first week in May -- althought the facility is in Louisiana, it could have affected things in california?? (hmmm weren't chad sightings in May 5?)
from their website http://www.ligo.caltech.edu/~ll_news/0607a_news/L1_progress.htm
"The bad news began on the morning of May 2 when LLO operators realized that one of L1’s 10-kg mirrors, ITMY (above left), had become immobilized on its suspension mount, rendering the interferometer uncontrollable. A large seismic impulse apparently lodged the mirror on several of its viton-tipped earthquake stops. Staff members began a series of interventions from the control room that became more serious over the following two days as the mirror refused to swing free. On May 5 the method of last resort was employed – a full vent of the chamber, removal of the chamber door and entry into the chamber by garbed personnel (above right) who manually dislodged the mirror. Following chamber closure and a 72-hour pump down, the gate valves that isolated the vented region were re-opened and interferometer operations were restored."

Of course, check out Newt's posted link to this NASA site that uses the interferometer for "Spacecraft Formation Control with Direct Interferometer-Output Feedback"
http://sbir.gsfc.nasa.gov/SBIR/successes/ss/5-064text.html

So if the main LIGO was having problems and went offline on May 5 -- and they worked to repair it, I guess it is probable that several different instances it went offline. And, if this is what NASA uses for spacecraft formation control, it is possible it interfered with the Drone formation control. eh??

From the NASA site at the bottom where you see Instrumentation, Sensors, Space Systems you can reference the different companies using the technology, many in California. Anyone of them could be using the technology that decloaked the drones!! Main one with a direct link on the main page of the NASA site is Optimal Synthesis, Inc. Los Altos CA -- a list of their projects here http://www.optisyn.com/ps/projects/projects.html


A different kind of technology in the area:

Also, in researching AMES research center at Moffett Field... I ran across a NEW facility there entitled the Bio-Info-Nano R&D Institute -- ok, here we have a NEW Nano technology research institute and it says that they begin THIS SUMMER (so maybe some kind of nano technology triggered the decloaking) from their website http://www.bioinfonano.org/about-us/

"The Bio | Info | Nano R & D Institute assembles the extensive research talents of UC Santa Cruz , NASA Ames Research Center, and industrial affiliates like Hewlett-Packard to engage in research at the cutting edge of “convergence science.” This represents the nexus of multiple disciplines, where biologists, physicists, chemical engineers, and others work together to develop next generation technologies. The applications developed at this specialized institute will leverage the Silicon Valley's powerful innovative spirit and unique resource base.

A key program of the Institute is the BIN Energy Initiative, a growing consortium of organizations using novel processes and exotic technologies to build realistic, sustainable alternatives to hydrocarbon fossil fuels. For example, our partner company Solexant is working with UCSC faculty, including Sue Carter’s group, to develop a nano-enabled coating that promises to increase efficiency while lowering the cost of solar cells.

The Institute is truly the place where biology, information technology, and nanotech meet! BIN-RDI will commence operations in summer 2007 at the Advanced Studies Laboratories.
"








Castles4me, very good investigation! I'm sure this technology are wide spread.

Whether or not it's flown by man or ET, what you present is the evidence, that it certainly is of interest of the laboratories of today! Excellent findings!

Until REAL proof is thrown onto the deskboard, I am still convinced that this Drone Enigma is true. Despite rumours presented from different sides, it still needs hard evidence to say it isn't. CG has had it's turns, debunkers as well. Unless "Isaac" steps forward, telling us he and Rajman, Chad and TY are the one and the same person, and in cahoots with several other eyewitnesses, and covers for it, no one on this Earth can say it's not true.

Just MHO,

VonStern


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Sep 13th, 2007, 5:23pm

Here ya go, this will stir the pot

from (reader at omf)

Okay, here is my update.

The hoaxer's names are Arthur and Jack. We can forget about Jack, because he is just the guy who follows, telling the world - no, the forums - that he really is embarrased by this.
These guys became friends, when working for Northrop Grumman.

Arthur is intelligent and full of humour, giving us all the fun. Sadly he didn't think for an end of this story. LMH interviewed him, because there was no Isaac at all.

When Isaac really talked to LMH, she realized, what was going on. Arthur is good in nearly everything. He knows, how to model, he is an expert in computing, he loves FDDL... (fiddle=packle ) But he is a bad actor. So even LMH understood, that Issac and Arthur had the same voice.

She quickly canceled the C2C-interview with Arthur than and we never heard anything of Isaac again.

But if he and Jack didn't die they still live on...

Which is true for all those witnesses.

from (onthefence omf)

Now we're getting somewhere. Are you saying that you have proof that "Arthur" and "Jack" hoaxed the drones/Isaac issue?

You mention FDDL, is Arthur the one listed here:
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/491227.html

Fill in the details please.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 13th, 2007, 6:41pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 10:31am, castles4me wrote:
So if the main LIGO was having problems and went offline on May 5 -- and they worked to repair it, I guess it is probable that several different instances it went offline. And, if this is what NASA uses for spacecraft formation control, it is possible it interfered with the Drone formation control. eh??


This are totally separate systems. LIGO has nothing to do with spacecraft formation control, apart that it is also an interferometer. It is very big and very carefully protected from environment and any kind of outside influence so that it can (passively!) measure very very very weak spatial distorsions caused by gravity waves. This protection works both ways - meaning that this interferometer doesn't influence its environment in any way, too.

Quote:
What does a gravitational wave observatory look like?

The larger the gravitational-wave detector, the more sensitive it will be. To detect the very weak waves that are predicted requires two installations, each with a 4-foot diameter vacuum pipe arranged in the shape of an L with 4-kilometer (2.5-mile) arms. Since gravitational waves penetrate the earth unimpeded, these installations need not be exposed to the sky and are entirely covered by a concrete cover. At the vertex of the L and at the end of each of its arms are test masses that hang from wires and are fitted with mirrors. The main building at the vertex serves as the control center and houses vacuum equipment, lasers, and computers. Ultrastable laser beams traversing the vacuum pipes measure the effect of gravitational waves on the test masses.

How will the detectors sense gravitational waves?

Gravitational waves are ripples in the fabric of space-time. When they enter the LIGO detector they will decrease the distance between the test masses in one arm of the L, while increasing it in the other. These changes are minute: just 10-16 centimeters, or one-hundred-millionth the diameter of a hydrogen atom over the 4 kilometer length of the arm. These tiny changes can be detected by isolating the test masses from all other disturbances, such as seismic vibrations of the earth and gas molecules in the air, and by bouncing high-power laser light beams back and forth between the test masses in each arm and then interfering the two arms' beams with each other. The tiny changes in test-mass distances throw the two arms' laser beams out of phase with each other, thereby disturbing their interference and revealing the form of the passing gravitational wave.


EDIT: Btw, nothing conclusive was detected with it so far.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Sep 13th, 2007, 6:58pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 5:23pm, Gort wrote:
Here ya go, this will stir the pot

from (reader at omf)

Okay, here is my update.

The hoaxer's names are Arthur and Jack. We can forget about Jack, because he is just the guy who follows, telling the world - no, the forums - that he really is embarrased by this.
These guys became friends, when working for Northrop Grumman.

Arthur is intelligent and full of humour, giving us all the fun. Sadly he didn't think for an end of this story. LMH interviewed him, because there was no Isaac at all.

When Isaac really talked to LMH, she realized, what was going on. Arthur is good in nearly everything. He knows, how to model, he is an expert in computing, he loves FDDL... (fiddle=packle ) But he is a bad actor. So even LMH understood, that Issac and Arthur had the same voice.

She quickly canceled the C2C-interview with Arthur than and we never heard anything of Isaac again.

But if he and Jack didn't die they still live on...

Which is true for all those witnesses.

from (onthefence omf)

Now we're getting somewhere. Are you saying that you have proof that "Arthur" and "Jack" hoaxed the drones/Isaac issue?

You mention FDDL, is Arthur the one listed here:
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/491227.html

Fill in the details please.


that's just lev...he's a couple cans short of a six pack
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Nodnunk on Sep 13th, 2007, 7:15pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 3:45pm, nekitamo wrote:
Actually, radar and infrared images provided here are inconclusive.
We need visible light images, preferably with at least this much resolution (current time only):

- only visible light counts.



For completeness, here is a visible satellite image for May 16, at 17:00 PDT = May 17, at 00:00 Z
Still looks clear along the California coast.

http://virga.sfsu.edu/pub/composites/wcsathts_vis/0705/07051700_wcsathts_snd_vis_alt.gif

User Image


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by TeachersPet on Sep 13th, 2007, 7:53pm

That is a distinct probability...I noted a distinct pattern in Readers attempt to pass off the impression he is a German speaking broken English and suddenly lapses into fluid English and colloquialisms I dunno ..A visit to that forum and listing all the posts by him will reveal that further.

I do like the part where Reader speaks about LMH and how she allegedly put the skids on hearing identical voices between Arthur and Isaac..

well then, If not Lev..who? we (both camps)can visit the possibility:could this be an attempt to give LMH an "out" for not going with this further and keeping it quiet so long..IMO It feels that way to me..she does not have to publicly say it was a hoax, which to my knowledge (if the Frozen paper machet ET in the Leek hoax is an indicator of her behaviour) she most definitely never will. But it helps spread the thought that she is acting in our interest,while still keeping the hits going to her site without saying a word. (its like sitting at a sofa at home and a small check coming in for free) Declaring a Hoax will not keep the interest, nor money, coming in. But,That silence of hers gives sustainability to the memes that MIBs and Gov have gotten to the witnesses, LMH, and lets not forget poor George and C2C which handed the hot potato to LMH. Lets not forget these people also have their operatives in all the forums that indirectly or directly make up their audience and will " protect " that market.What we may be seeing is the beginning of a coverup of different sort..we have seen it before so many times by the Gov only its right here at home...damage control.
Why did it go bad.? Because they were overwhelmed by the probing and stinging questions from not just skeptics but believers..even believers have common sense too.. ..Reader in that post was correct..it was a good script..great photos..but the acting..was..Terrible!

This is why I would not dismiss Gorts "Reader" Post at OM outright..he/she did bring out something well worth considering .

Respectfully
TeachersPet



Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 13th, 2007, 7:53pm

on Sep 11th, 2007, 09:28am, Nodnunk wrote:
Quote from the link above:
If this power can be harnessed by NANO grids, embedded in the surface of the housing, attachments could be hold together (and onto) the rings by magnetic differencies due to current changes inside the superconductors, you not only have the antigravity, but also the propulsion system.

Physics, as we Earthlings understand it, separates gravity from electromagnetism, the strong and the weak forces. So explain further how your magnetic fields can be turned into antigravity by a superconductor?

Also, from what mechanism does the propulsion system arise?

For readers who are interested, the four fundamental forces are briefly described here:

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/forces.html



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZMzHTERr-E

You really should view this video through...it may answer your question about the propulsion system.

And, I never imposed that what I said was true, just an assumption grin

Peace,

VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by drewlac on Sep 13th, 2007, 8:20pm

I just call them as I see them......Also, I actually agree this his statement about LMH. She shouldn't withhold information pertaining to drone/Isaac topics. It shouldn't matter if its pro or anti hoax.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by interocitor on Sep 13th, 2007, 8:45pm

Simple question. Is this site still concerned with UFOs? Proof for or against. I hope it is not just a place to further one poster's career as OMF is. I am still interested in UFOs even if first they must pass Mr. CGI's approval! Oh, nothing absolutely nothing offends me, because I always consider the source.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by notafulldeck on Sep 13th, 2007, 9:26pm

Are Middletown, CA or Apple Valley, CA close to where Chad claims to have experienced siting??
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 13th, 2007, 9:26pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 8:45pm, interocitor wrote:
Simple question. Is this site still concerned with UFOs? Proof for or against. I hope it is not just a place to further one poster's career as OMF is. I am still interested in UFOs even if first they must pass Mr. CGI's approval! Oh, nothing absolutely nothing offends me, because I always consider the source.
I agree.when is any one or two,is gona out right prove the drones or photos isaac an out right hoaxs? from what i see it seems avery hard test for someone to do so. I personaly feel the droneswhich came to our goverment by way of the aliens can also be use as military weapons, and the uncloaking of them are worring the military hoping they dont get noticed by mybe rusia.just my thought. wink
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Sep 13th, 2007, 10:39pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 6:41pm, nekitamo wrote:
This are totally separate systems. LIGO has nothing to do with spacecraft formation control, apart that it is also an interferometer. It is very big and very carefully protected from environment and any kind of outside influence so that it can (passively!) measure very very very weak spatial distorsions caused by gravity waves. This protection works both ways - meaning that this interferometer doesn't influence its environment in any way, too.


The interferometer that I pointed out was the SAR type. Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_aperture_radar

I'm glad that you do have knowledge of interferometry because it seems like a rather large field. Since, I believe, that interferometry deals with wavelengths, do you know of any of the different types that could cause some type of electrical interference? The SAR type seemed like a possibility to me due to the fact it is pulsed from a plane... Unless it is just normal radar that is then put through another system for interpreting?

Is it just a coincidence that a Gravitational Observatory popped up at the same place and time as the CARET Program(if real that is) was started? Or would anti-gravity propulsion and gravity waves be unrelated?

Thanks in advance! smiley
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by murnut on Sep 13th, 2007, 11:01pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 8:45pm, interocitor wrote:
Simple question. Is this site still concerned with UFOs? Proof for or against. I hope it is not just a place to further one poster's career as OMF is. I am still interested in UFOs even if first they must pass Mr. CGI's approval! Oh, nothing absolutely nothing offends me, because I always consider the source.


Your Fang's are showing, friend.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 13th, 2007, 11:22pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 8:45pm, interocitor wrote:
Simple question. Is this site still concerned with UFOs? Proof for or against. I hope it is not just a place to further one poster's career as OMF is. I am still interested in UFOs even if first they must pass Mr. CGI's approval! Oh, nothing absolutely nothing offends me, because I always consider the source.


Simple question - did you post with the intention of stirring things up again? I think we've spent more than enough time on that particular issue. Points made, points understood. All of those interested in continuing this investigation in an intelligent and respectful manner have moved on to more constructive things. I would suggest that you do the same.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Nodnunk on Sep 14th, 2007, 06:34am

on Sep 13th, 2007, 7:53pm, VonStern wrote:
And, I never imposed that what I said was true, just an assumption grin

Peace,

VonStern


"just an assumption". Thanks for the clarification.
.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 14th, 2007, 08:39am

on Sep 13th, 2007, 10:39pm, newtothis wrote:
The interferometer that I pointed out was the SAR type. Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_aperture_radar

I'm glad that you do have knowledge of interferometry because it seems like a rather large field. Since, I believe, that interferometry deals with wavelengths, do you know of any of the different types that could cause some type of electrical interference? The SAR type seemed like a possibility to me due to the fact it is pulsed from a plane... Unless it is just normal radar that is then put through another system for interpreting?

Is it just a coincidence that a Gravitational Observatory popped up at the same place and time as the CARET Program(if real that is) was started? Or would anti-gravity propulsion and gravity waves be unrelated?

Thanks in advance! smiley


Seems there are several types of interferometers. It is definitely a technology to study in our search for what triggered the "decloaking" mystery.

And, is it a coincidence that the LIGO had some major problems starting on May 5 ?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by ufaux on Sep 14th, 2007, 08:47am

Unbelievebale! All of yours still working on that hoax?
Very cute kiss
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 14th, 2007, 08:57am

on Sep 14th, 2007, 08:47am, ufaux wrote:
Unbelievebale! All of yours still working on that hoax?
Very cute kiss


Oh? and you have some definitive proof that every aspect of this very complex case is a hoax? We'd love to see your research and documentation.

You know .... people coming in here just to be sarcastic and condescending are getting really tiresome. It's also not very mature. Please find another thread that you don't find so silly to participate in, there are plenty to choose from.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 14th, 2007, 10:00am

on Sep 13th, 2007, 7:53pm, TeachersPet wrote:
This is why I would not dismiss Gorts "Reader" Post at OM outright..he/she did bring out something well worth considering .


LMH has always been and continues to be 100% in support of Isaac and the drone case being true and legitimate. It does not matter what any kooky forum poster types. I find it odd that the only people who are even considering Reader's incoherent babbling are also the ones who can't see the sincerity in the drone case. DISCERNMENT.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 14th, 2007, 10:28am

I'll say one thing for reader, if you read his very first posts on OMF, he raises some very obvious problems with Isaacs letter. A worthy read.

Who is to tell what he currently mentions is true. Like other lines of enquiry, it shouldn't be ignored just because it doesn't fit everyones way of thinking. The floor is still wide open on this, and no one can say true or false.
Give reader time, it could be important.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 14th, 2007, 11:27am

on Sep 14th, 2007, 10:28am, Saladfingers wrote:
Give reader time, it could be important.

Can't you see you are being played? You'd think you would have learned from Lev. And we're the gullible ones? rolleyes

Which is more gullible? To believe in the drone case when enough evidence is in your face? Or to believe in a hoax with no evidence other than a gut feeling?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Sep 14th, 2007, 11:57am

Until I came across one of his last posts I was unaware of "reader". I have read all of his posts some 80 plus. Some observations of particular note. He is obviously well spoken and very intelligent. In all of his posts on various threads he is nonconfrontational. It seems that he has particular knowledge and on occasion he provides hints. He is every bit as credible as Isaac.

I get the impression after reading all of his posts some 80 plus posts that he is observing this episode unfold, has particular knowledge, and derives some amusement at it all. That you should refer to him as a nutcase is in itself somewhat contradictory, and shortsighted as one could interpret your blind obsession as falling into that category also. Reviewing your posts I find two predominant themes, 1) even if it is a hoax I don't care the rest of you are all crazy, I'm convinced so don't make up my mind. 2) unlike reader you seem to be very confrontational in promoting this viewpoint. This gives me all the more reason to see the humor "reader" finds in all of this, and supports his credibility.

The only way this will be proven is if Arthur shows us a videotape of the various models he has made, how he has suspended them using fishing line (or something) and how he has cut and pasted (cgi) them into various scenes. But this will not happen. As "reader" has suggested Arthur's intent was to make you people think and that you certainly have done.



Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 14th, 2007, 12:15pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 7:15pm, Nodnunk wrote:
For completeness, here is a visible satellite image for May 16, at 17:00 PDT = May 17, at 00:00 Z
Still looks clear along the California coast.

http://virga.sfsu.edu/pub/composites/wcsathts_vis/0705/07051700_wcsathts_snd_vis_alt.gif

User Image




Nodnunk, am I reading the photo correctly, 17th May?


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Nodnunk on Sep 14th, 2007, 12:44pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 12:15pm, Marvin wrote:
Nodnunk, am I reading the photo correctly, 17th May?



Yes, PDT is 7 hours behind Zulu.
00:00 Zulu (May 17) is the same as 24:00 (May 16).
So 24:00 minus 7 hours is 17:00 (May 16) PDT.
Agree?

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Sep 14th, 2007, 12:54pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 12:15pm, Marvin wrote:
Nodnunk, am I reading the photo correctly, 17th May?



You people are off on another wild goose chase, forget about Mufon. Don't you realize what “reader” has said, investigate that.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 14th, 2007, 1:06pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 11:57am, Gort wrote:
Until I came across one of his last posts I was unaware of "reader". I have read all of his posts some 80 plus. Some observations of particular note. He is obviously well spoken and very intelligent. In all of his posts on various threads he is nonconfrontational. It seems that he has particular knowledge and on occasion he provides hints. He is every bit as credible as Isaac.


Are we talking about the same Reader? Well spoken? Ha! Yes I admit that for the most part he is non confrontational. But that behavior has absolutely no indication of intelligence. As a matter of fact it may indicate a lack of confidence in one's own grasp of the subject. The guy is certainly not well spoken. He is somewhat hard to understand. He says he's German and that may account for his lack of eloquence. I can't believe you can compare this guy with Isaac who I read as a very intelligent man who is very able to convey abstract and very deep thoughts

It always amazes me that the pro hoaxers are so against all of the Isaac/ drone evidence and so easily discount all of it but will so quickly latch onto anything strange that remotely supports their odd conclusion.

I guess we'll have to wait and see but what I think is happening is we are witnessing a member beginning to implode.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 14th, 2007, 1:15pm

Since I do not have tons of extra time, I have concentrating on the Ty Big Basin photos. Of all the drone photos, in the eyes of an novice, this series of photos appear to be the easiest to manipulate.

It appears that Ty sent in “photographs” (on photo paper) according to the statement made by LMH. I quote her:

“June 17, 2007 Big Basin, California - In yesterday's post office mail, I received twelve more images of the latest, more menacing-looking dragonfly-shaped aerial "drone," along with a letter mailed on June 11, 2007, from an eyewitness named Ty. He had also emailed me on June 11, telling me that he was sending photographs he had taken while bicycling with a group of riders near Saratoga, California, in Big Basin.”

http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1270&category=Environment

Therefore, it has been assumed that the photos were taken with a non-digital camera. I believe that is not the case.

If you look at the high-res photo, which we can assume was scanned by LMH (or her staff… hey Linda, clean you scanner or was the “dust debris” already in the photo?), we can see parallel lines through the feelers (on the top of the drone), through the blue colored edges of the drone components and through some of the drone components themselves.

According to some experts I have spoken with, these lines are generated when you enlarge a digital picture. Why are the lines there? It has something to do with how the CCD receives, processes the image and records it.

If LMH scanned the photo and did not over enlarge it, these lines should not be visible and a 100% enlargement and they are in the high-res version. Therefore, number one, you have to assume that the original camera used to capture the drone was a digital one.

Number two, the odd thing that was noticed is on the trees. What little of the trees that can be seen in the high-res photo, do not show any parallel lines… even in the blue areas. It is almost as if the drone has been over enlarged and the trees have not. Without the whole high-res photo, one can not be conclusive, but it opens the possibility that the drone may have been pasted in to the photo (and is not really there, even though I thought it was).

User Image

Does any one have another explanation?

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 14th, 2007, 1:26pm

on Sep 13th, 2007, 5:23pm, Gort wrote:
from (onthefence omf)

Now we're getting somewhere. Are you saying that you have proof that "Arthur" and "Jack" hoaxed the drones/Isaac issue?

You mention FDDL, is Arthur the one listed here:
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/491227.html

Fill in the details please.


So, if this Arthur -- the UT professor - from this website is the one who is being accused of hoaxing this (which I really doubt) it is interesting nonetheless that on his personal website (you can google him to find it) he has his "favorite website" button which comes up as Whitley Streiber's Dreamland -- and he also has a dream journal on his site with many dreams similar to those posted on this casebook. So, he is someone that knows the UFO community (possibly) and/or it could be that he is just pretending to have been the hoaxer, or whoever READER is, has the wrong person.... either way, where is the proof.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 14th, 2007, 1:28pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 1:15pm, Marvin wrote:
Does any one have another explanation?


Marvin,

Can you illustrate the parallel lines you speak of? It was never said what kind of camera Ty used. It could be digital or film. LMH has stated she received 12 5x7 prints along with the typed letter from Ty B. So the hi rez photo could be considered an enlargement. I guess it all depends on how you view it on your monitor. Parallel lines could be explained by anomalies with LMH's scanner or Ty's printer.

One thing you should consider in all this are Steven's photos which captured the same object in the same location on the same day from a different vantage point. How would that figure into a fake Ty photo theory?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 14th, 2007, 1:32pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 12:44pm, Nodnunk wrote:
Yes, PDT is 7 hours behind Zulu.
00:00 Zulu (May 17) is the same as 24:00 (May 16).
So 24:00 minus 7 hours is 17:00 (May 16) PDT.
Agree?



It is cornfussing, I know.

Yes, 00:00 Zulu would be a day ahead (then minus 7 hours would be 5:00 pm the 16th on the west coast).

God save the Queen.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 14th, 2007, 2:32pm

Latitude. Honestly, I never said anything about Reader should be believed without proof. I think it is fair enough that someone is given time to explain themselves is it not?
Reader has made some very valid arguments and observations in the past, so I have no reason currently not to allow him that time, even if he is being a little evasive. What is the rush?

(Note: I started writing this some hours ago but had to leave it because I went out. On return, reader has explained himself, and I see what he was doing. My above comments stand, and he did explain his posts... see)

As for evidence of it being real, well all I can say is that it is evidence without any substantiation or verification. So such hopes should not be pinned upon it. You have to understand, that no one who believes that it could be a hoax pin hopes on that. The hope for anyone is that it is real, and this whole silly tension between the two camps shouldn't exist.

If some light can be shed on this case that leads in one direction or the other, then everyone should welcome it.

There is no enlightenment to be gained from a lie. To invest such hopes and dreams without verification is detrimental to the study of this entire phenomenon. To believe this is real, is only so much a gut feeling as to believe it is a hoax, and the given 'evidence' is proof of nothing without verification. I don't see how you can argue otherwise!

...'what can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence.'

Quote- Derren Brown.




Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 14th, 2007, 2:32pm

Marvin,

I see the anomaly you are pointing out. It's a moire pattern and it is real bad in the low res scans. I think it is a distortion induced by LMH's scanner. If she is using a cheap scanner that would do it. If she is I hope she has those prints professionally scanned or better yet have the negatives scanned.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 14th, 2007, 2:39pm

Saladfingers,

That last post is very good. I agree with most of it. I'm in no rush to judge Reader. If you read my last reply on the subject to Gort you will see in the last sentence I said we will have to wait and see. I thought it was Gort who was rushing to believe Reader is correct. Certainly sys_config is already convinced Reader is correct.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Marvin on Sep 14th, 2007, 2:39pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 1:28pm, Latitude wrote:
Marvin,

Can you illustrate the parallel lines you speak of? It was never said what kind of camera Ty used. It could be digital or film. LMH has stated she received 12 5x7 prints along with the typed letter from Ty B. So the hi rez photo could be considered an enlargement. I guess it all depends on how you view it on your monitor. Parallel lines could be explained by anomalies with LMH's scanner or Ty's printer.

One thing you should consider in all this are Steven's photos which captured the same object in the same location on the same day from a different vantage point. How would that figure into a fake Ty photo theory?


I will have to wait till this weekend to post pictures, long story (we are having carpeting installed and my computer is taken apart). embarassed

I am not ready to say what is okay or not, I am just sharing what I have heard and then getting feedback on it here. I will get some examples together this weekend unless someone beats me to it.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 14th, 2007, 2:41pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 2:39pm, Marvin wrote:
I will have to wait till this weekend to post pictures, long story (we are having carpeting installed and my computer is taken apart). embarassed

I am not ready to say what is okay or not, I am just sharing what I have heard and then getting feedback on it here. I will get some examples together this weekend unless someone beats me to it.


It ok Marvin, I figure out what you meant. It was my fault for skimming over your post too quickly. Look at the low res pics. The moire pattern is all over the drone and in the tree branches too.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 14th, 2007, 2:50pm

Oh ok, sorry Lat. I just got in, and saw that post still on my screen not sent, so I thought I'd best get it finished and up.

smiley
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by tommi01 on Sep 14th, 2007, 3:57pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 2:32pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Latitude. Honestly, I never said anything about Reader should be believed without proof. I think it is fair enough that someone is given time to explain themselves is it not?
Reader has made some very valid arguments and observations in the past, so I have no reason currently not to allow him that time, even if he is being a little evasive. What is the rush?

(Note: I started writing this some hours ago but had to leave it because I went out. On return, reader has explained himself, and I see what he was doing. My above comments stand, and he did explain his posts... see)

As for evidence of it being real, well all I can say is that it is evidence without any substantiation or verification. So such hopes should not be pinned upon it. You have to understand, that no one who believes that it could be a hoax pin hopes on that. The hope for anyone is that it is real, and this whole silly tension between the two camps shouldn't exist.

If some light can be shed on this case that leads in one direction or the other, then everyone should welcome it.

There is no enlightenment to be gained from a lie. To invest such hopes and dreams without verification is detrimental to the study of this entire phenomenon. To believe this is real, is only so much a gut feeling as to believe it is a hoax, and the given 'evidence' is proof of nothing without verification. I don't see how you can argue otherwise!

...'what can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence.'

Quote- Derren Brown.





Salad, your Derren Brown would do far better to include Plato's cave allegory in his discourse.

Let me argue your point that what we have needs proof:

What we have are real photos of drones posted to the internet, real witnesses, one real whistle blower named Isaac, real copies of documents, real scanned pictures of alien artifacts and one hell of a real diagram with alien symbols.

That's reality Salad as it stands now.. It's up to you to prove different !

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by brm1 on Sep 14th, 2007, 4:39pm

[quote author=tomi01uk]


Let me argue your point that what we have needs proof:

What we have are real photos of drones posted to the internet, real witnesses, one real whistle blower named Isaac, real copies of documents, real scanned pictures of alien artifacts and one hell of a real diagram with alien symbols.

That's reality Salad as it stands now.. It's up to you to prove different !
[/quote]

let me help you with that

"What we have are what are claimed to be real photos of drones posted to the internet, real witnesses, who have disappeared, one real whistle blower named Isaac, who has also gone missing, real copies of documents, that may or may not be of real documents, real scanned pictures of alien artifacts, that no one has really touched and one hell of a real diagram with what have been called alien symbols, by one of the missing witnesses.

So far you have the extraordinary claims part of the equation without the extraordinary proof side.

All of these pages of dialog have not produced any proof so far.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 14th, 2007, 4:53pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 4:39pm, brm1 wrote:
So far you have the extraordinary claims part of the equation without the extraordinary proof side.

All of these pages of dialog have not produced any proof so far.


Sure, it's true we have extraordinary claims, well not just claims but we also have what appears to be very realistic photos and scans of very realistic documents that do support those claims.

On the flip side, the side that says none of this is real, we have only claims and absolutely no supporting evidence.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 14th, 2007, 5:24pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 3:57pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Salad, your Derren Brown would do far better to include Plato's cave allegory in his discourse.

Let me argue your point that what we have needs proof:

What we have are real photos of drones posted to the internet, real witnesses, one real whistle blower named Isaac, real copies of documents, real scanned pictures of alien artifacts and one hell of a real diagram with alien symbols.

That's reality Salad as it stands now.. It's up to you to prove different !


Tomi, I like you, and enjoy talking to you, but I just don't see how you can say such things.

It may all appear real, but nothing can be verified in any way! As posted before, the actual reality is that these items, photos and witnesses are being presented as real, but with nothing to verify that they are real. Not a single thing to verify them. You can believe they are real, but I'm sorry, it just does not make it true!

It is great to imagine that every word, every photo is true, and how amazing and fantastic, but I cannot, and will never subscribe to that without a single verification of any of the presented data.

You are entitled to believe them of course, and i do not knock that. I'm not attacking you, it is just that I have serious issue with your lack of need for proof. It is a way of thinking i can never subscribe to. But i can share your wish for it to be true.


Think I have repeated some words here too many times... a few beers do that to me smiley

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 14th, 2007, 5:49pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 5:24pm, Saladfingers wrote:
It may all appear real, but nothing can be verified in any way! As posted before, the actual reality is that these items, photos and witnesses are being presented as real, but with nothing to verify that they are real. Not a single thing to verify them. You can believe they are real, but I'm sorry, it just does not make it true!


True, but every person, including yourself that either eludes or claims that this is a hoax cannot and has not provided 100% proof positive. Not only that...

Everyone that DOES believe, in several forums full of some of the brightest, intelligent and knowledgeable people around have pecked and poked and analyzed until our eyes fell out, and have not found 100% proof positive that it is hoaxed.

So the reality is... none of the scoffers have proved it is a hoax, and all of the scrutiny has not found any tangible reason to believe that it is a hoax. We have not found any mistakes. there are some questionable things that we have gone over, but no proof of error.

I am not a mathmetician, but the odds are in the believers favor here.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:03pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 5:24pm, Saladfingers wrote:
It may all appear real, but nothing can be verified in any way! As posted before, the actual reality is that these items, photos and witnesses are being presented as real, but with nothing to verify that they are real. Not a single thing to verify them. You can believe they are real, but I'm sorry, it just does not make it true!

It is great to imagine that every word, every photo is true, and how amazing and fantastic, but I cannot, and will never subscribe to that without a single verification of any of the presented data.


Salad, verification is the key to this whole issue. The photos, witnesses, and documents are real, in a sense that they exist... Now, the photos could be fakes, the witnesses could be hoaxers, and the documents could be fiction! But I consider them to be "true" until someone else proves, without a doubt, that they are fake. And after more than 4 months of examining all of these photos and the documents and no proof of a hoax...

But, even if this debate does not come to a conclusion, I hope that someone got, or gets, some inspiration to try to reproduce the technology and ideas presented by this case! shocked

Newt~
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:10pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 5:24pm, Saladfingers wrote:
You are entitled to believe them of course, and i do not knock that. I'm not attacking you, it is just that I have serious issue with your lack of need for proof. It is a way of thinking i can never subscribe to. But i can share your wish for it to be true.


Think I have repeated some words here too many times... a few beers do that to me smiley


Don't you think that you or any of the other hoax believers would have figured out how the photos were made by now? I guess I have a lot more confidence in their abilities. I think if this was a hoax they would have found numerous smoking guns months ago. The Haiti video hoax was exposed within 24 hours.

How about the telephone interviews done by LMH? I guess those people are all in on the hoax too? Then all the Isaac documentation and the LAP. I think the hoax theory is more far fetched than the alternative.

Have another beer. The hoax theory gets more believable with each one. grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by ABCStore on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:15pm

[offtopic]
Hehe, got my first UFO on camera. It was definately a flying object that no-one could identify. Just sat there for well over 30 minutes shining through all colors at different brightness. Camera was set on 'auto' which resulted in exposure time of 1/2 sec and therefore the object (a dot) appears as 'snake'.

http://www.quantumsilicones.com/mike/100_0371.jpg

Also got it on camcoder for about 10 sec. (Then the camera quit due to humidity outside)
[/offtopic]

ABC
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:29pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 5:49pm, castles4me wrote:
True, but every person, including yourself that either eludes or claims that this is a hoax cannot and has not provided 100% proof positive. Not only that...


Castles,

They haven't even provided 1% proof positive. Zilch, nada, zip, nothing. They say things like,"It's gotta be fake". I don't know what they are so afraid of. It's like a faith based religion to them.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by interocitor on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:33pm

It seems to escape Mr. Salad and the salad-eaters that few have ever said that CG is incapable of producing believable UFO hoaxes. Most accept it , but I am saying that in all your posting and posturing and psychobabble you have never disproved anything. Your attempts have done the contrary they have shown how really good the original drone Cg is if indeed it is CG. Sense you must know this, once again what is your purpose in rattling on ad nauseum about it. You can not disprove the drones at all as are pre-CG UFO photos can not be absolutely disproved with a knowledge of old special effects. I call OMF the "Salad-bowl" because that is all it is now, a place for you to pontificate. The posters here had best make up their own minds and expect to have to listen to you on every photo case of interest in the future. What a boring proposition.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:41pm

I think my point is being missed. I'm not saying that the odds go either way. As far as i can say, it remains 50/50 at best.

My actual point, is that you can't go around saying it is real, as if it is some guarenteed fact.

Consider my above view as the conditions that the wider world would require to take it seriously. The academics, scientists, the press, ...all the fields that could really benefit from it.
It has got to be verified! I get no pleasure at all from my feeling that it is a hoax, but I can't prove that right now any more than it can be proved real. All i want is those that keep saying it is real, to accept and openly admit that it has not been proven. It isn't much to ask. If everyone can admit this most basic of realities, we could all move forward and work towards the truth. Opinion has been worn out to its death!

4 Months, and neither side is much further forward. Circumstances surrounding the reports, and the narrative release of images and eventually documents raises very big questions.

I am going to paste in the post that i made over at OMF, with the full txt i quoted from Derren Brown that I mentioned before, because it covers quite elequently the true believer conundorum.

Here it is...

_______________________________

I'm just going to post an extract from a very good book, by a very insightful and talented man, Mr Derren Brown. He isn't very well known State side, but he is pretty well known in the UK. He has written a book called Tricks of the mind, and I recommend anyone to read it.
He has a lot to say about beliefs, and everything he says on the subject is absolutely sound and correct. Here is one paragraph that i thought relevant...
----------------

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. This is terribly important. What tends to happen instead is that extraordinary claims lead to extraordinary conviction. We tend to think that the depth of our personal experience of the extraordinary thing in question, be it God or healing crystals (or drones , Kris) is evidence of the veracity of the claim. It really isn't; it's just evidence of how much we are prepared to believe in something (without proof). Attached to this understanding is the fact that if you believe in something extraordinary, you cannot insist that non-believers prove you wrong in an argument. It's your job to do the proving. We're back to the problem of trying to prove a negative. Imagine, for example, that a grown man is arguing that there is a Father Christmas. It's not up to everyone else to prove that there isn't, in order to decide the matter of whether he exists. He'd better have extraordinary proof to support his extraordinary claim.
Put another way, 'what can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence.'

*I will just write a little more from the following page as it is also relevant. *Note to Derren if you should come across this! Please don't sue me!!! In fact, get involved as i think you'd find this all very interesting to say the least!

Anyway.. next section...

One tendency that gets in the way of us making the best decisions with regard to these sorts of belief systems is that of confirmation bias. Imagine you have heard that Dave (who you don't know) is an extrovert, and you wish to find out whether this is true. You're allowed to ask him yes/no questions about his behavior. What sort of questions would you ask? Just give that some thought for a moment; get a sense of the line of questioning you would take.



I would imagine you might ask the following sorts of questions:

Do you like to go to parties?
Do you enjoy being around people?

These questions are typical, as shown in experiments that look at confirmation bias. The point is, if you ask these sorts of questions of Dave, you will likely walk away convinced that he is an extrovert. Dave will seem to fit the description you have of him.
Edit Kris.. as I don't want to write the whole book.. his point is that we ask questions that are biased to our opinion, confirming our beliefs.

He concludes the section with the following...

...we look for what supports our hypothesis. We are not dispassionate judges where we already have a belief, however tenuous, in place. To look at things objectively and step outside of our beliefs can be almost impossible. For any of us, that is, not just believers in the paranormal.
The all-too common extreme, though, of this sort of bias is circular reasoning. This is the fallacy of the True Believer. The True Believer ignores anything that doesn't fit his belief system. Instead, he inevitably comes to hold those beliefs at a very profound level. They can become absolutely part of his identity. It is this that brings together the religious, the psychic, the cynic (as opposed to the open skeptic) and the narrow-minded of all kinds. It is something I encountered a lot among my fellow Christians. At one level it can be seen in the circular discussion which goes as follows:

Why do you believe in the bible?
Because it is Gods word.
And why do you believe in God?
Because of what it says in the bible.

At a less obvious level, it can be seen in the following common exchange:

Why do you believe Christianity is true?
Because I have the experience of a personal relationship with God.
So how do you know you're not fooling yourself?
Because i know it is real.

Even as an enthusiastic believer myself I could see this kind of tautology at work, and over time I realized that it is common to all forms of True Belief., regardless of the particular belief in question. The fact is, it's enormously difficult - and you need to be fantastically brave - to overcome the circularity of your own ideologies. But just because our identity might be tied up with what we believe, it doesn't make that belief any more correct. One wishes that True Believers of any sort would learn a little modesty in their convictions.


Anyway, it is a brilliant read, and he really does have a good perspective. I'd very much recommend this book to anyone. Again Derren! Don't sue!

Hope this was of interest to everyone.

Cheers.

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:43pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:33pm, interocitor wrote:
It seems to escape Mr. Salad and the salad-eaters that few have ever said that CG is incapable of producing believable UFO hoaxes. Most accept it , but I am saying that in all your posting and posturing and psychobabble you have never disproved anything. Your attempts have done the contrary they have shown how really good the original drone Cg is if indeed it is CG. Sense you must know this, once again what is your purpose in rattling on ad nauseum about it. You can not disprove the drones at all as are pre-CG UFO photos can not be absolutely disproved with a knowledge of old special effects. I call OMF the "Salad-bowl" because that is all it is now, a place for you to pontificate. The posters here had best make up their own minds and expect to have to listen to you on every photo case of interest in the future. What a boring proposition.


Thanks for the input leviathan, you never fail to miss the points I make.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by TeachersPet on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:44pm

Salutations
I think Newt the answer is nearing and that some of this stuff is being worked on.If you remember Arthur
Reyes was one of the people that commented on the Language and its potential.He commented on it positively, because he in fact, is working on that kind of programming called.FDDL wherein large blocks of data can be used as nodes in an overall multi stream processing.a google of fddl and Reyes puts him at the very forefront of that technology.the diagrams mimic much some of the data charts I have come across . The diagrams of Isaac would be a future version of that type of programming. It is indeed the direction computer science, and physics is headed,Its presented as ET because allegorically we are becoming the ET as we understand the forces of nature at the subatomic and macro. The diagrams are beautiful because mathematics,nature, is beautiful. I see this not as a profit making hoax, but an attempt of a scientist or group of scientists to share their vision with us. That the want they same thing we do and are working on it. They want us catch the magic. and we did. THey are saying look.its fantastic and its coming your way. LMH had the information on the her site, so I cannot fault as I did before, and I have been almost flaming her at every turn. I feel different about this now. Perhaps they chose the wrong venue, C2C and LMH, as this was a first time for them and misjudged the intensity of feeling of the UFO community.
I can as we all have speculate on that. But I do not believe it is a hoax., or an MIB job, or Government coverup. It is to me something unusual, a gift from our best minds that we are close to achieving something wonderful. He they asked for no money just believe and learn the laws of the universe and how it will get us out there and place us on an even keel withe the ET's as their language would be symbolic if not telepathic , and make them more accepting of us than we are now.if we had stolen the tech..they still would not talk, as we could never understand them..we have to evolve just a tad..just a tad..as Arthur Reyes (IMO) Isaac told us in his story..

Respectfully
Teacherspet



Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by interocitor on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:55pm

I am not leviathan and you have never made a point just self promotion and bad CG. Things must be rotten near Birmingham. These sites will go as you are helping OMF go. You like to put the blame for all the people who dislike and understand your ways on Leviathan. Surly you can do better than using Leviathan as your defense through distraction or are you really that pathetic.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 14th, 2007, 7:10pm

Well, if it talks like a Leviathan, and it walks like a Leviathan, then..

Listen. If you insist on refering to me as 'saladbowl' or whaever silly little put downs you like to use, then i won't show you any form of respect in return. Perhaps if you were more honest about who you are, then I can be a little more believing. It is funny, because that is the exact same situation with the drones.

You can hate me, say my CG is poor, honestly you can say what you like. It is your beef, as it doesn't bother me in the slightest. It actually makes me laugh a little.
But really, there is nothing to gain by being the way you are, or how you present yourself. Leviathan obsessed how you seem to.. so is it so surprising i consider you the same person? leviathan had a habit of hiding behind different names, so for him to be you isn't a stretch.

God this is dull.

Anyway, whatever you say. Your opinion is yours, and that is fine.

Btw, i don't put the blame for all the people who dislike and understand my ways on Leviathan.. (I think you actually meant misunderstand)
most people have at least got an argument or something to say from a perspective of opinion or fact. you just attack me. So the only person on here i would consider to be him, or comparable to him, is you. Everyone else seems fine, even if they hate my opinions. That is fine. No one sees the world in the same way do they. It'd be boring if they did.

So please, spit fire at me, I'm fire proof after the ***p that has been thrown at me.

You helped that. So please ..carry on!

Night night all. Leaving you to it, as Le..Interocitor wants to drag this back to page 22.. or whatever it was.

Byeeeee
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Sep 14th, 2007, 7:48pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 08:39am, castles4me wrote:
Seems there are several types of interferometers. It is definitely a technology to study in our search for what triggered the "decloaking" mystery.

And, is it a coincidence that the LIGO had some major problems starting on May 5 ?


I think there is something to it also... I was reading through those pages for about 4 hours and I kept finding info that seemed to be related to all of this! Gonna take a while to get a good feel for what this tech can do though huh
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by TeachersPet on Sep 14th, 2007, 8:32pm

I was remiss in mentioning I emailed Dr. Reyes this pm asking whether or not he is the author of this entire adventure.
I will keep you updated as to that when I here from him.







Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Sep 14th, 2007, 8:32pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:44pm, TeachersPet wrote:
they still would not talk, as we could never understand them..we have to evolve just a tad..just a tad..as Arthur Reyes (IMO) Isaac told us in his story..

Respectfully
Teacherspet


Oh so very true, and we will evolve... We have no choice. wink

Newt~
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 14th, 2007, 8:35pm

interocitor - KNOCK IT OFF. Enough with the sarcasm and the condescending posts. I don't care who you are, you're rude plain and simple. Use the member name as registered, stop being obnoxious.

Saladfingers, we've heard your arguments several times over. Everyone gets it. Turn a new page, please.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by interocitor on Sep 14th, 2007, 8:46pm

No respect from you has been asked for nor expected. The same can be said of your opinions on the drones. You expressed your opinion from day one that they were fake and purposely faked out LMH with your animation. Most posters said that CG was definitely a possibility so your opinion was considered valid and a likelihood. The closer some looked and when new info came available the drones took on a new aura and the BB drone was an incredible work for better than the ILM junk of Transformers. You though insisted that the drones could be proved fake if people, for some reason, gave you enough time to fake them. This was you setting yourself as the ultimate authority on CG, which you are not. The posters must first ask if you thought any future photo was CG and you used obvious and juvenile phrases such as the one in your last post to sway others to your agenda. Some left tired of you and, on OMF, the obnoxious shadow. You have never said why it is so important almost a religious desire of yours to disprove the drones. I have said and will say that I do not like you because I read you. Since you want to ruin the interest and fun that UFOs bring along with the possibility of something new to this world, why should I like you. You Mr. Salad are a simple spoiler, who would tell the end of a movie just for the delight of hurting others. The drones are really not that important. it is the mystery that they bring to a dieing world where hope grows less each day. You enjoy stepping on the new thoughts and enthusiasm that many really need now whether real or not is not the factor. Some want it to be and they have as much right and more than a small know-it-all who wants nothing but to have his ego spun one more time.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 14th, 2007, 8:53pm

Do you not read prior posts? This is not the place for thumbing noses at people we don't like and name calling. Take it to PM. If you two have a problem with each other deal with it outside of this thread. SECOND WARNING.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 14th, 2007, 9:16pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:44pm, TeachersPet wrote:
hem..we have to evolve just a tad..just a tad..as Arthur Reyes (IMO) Isaac told us in his story..

Respectfully
Teacherspet



Arthur Reyes is too young to be Isaac based on the timeline at PACL.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 14th, 2007, 9:21pm

Yeah Guys I agree with MarkM its ok to disagree on something and say so, but flaming other people doesnt wash so knock it off, as moderators we have the power to ban you from the forum or this board for that matter and lock the thread ruining eveything for everyone you really dont want us to do that do you?.
So dont flame people just say something like ( person your idea is nice or wrong or something like that , but I disagree with you for these reasons), or some sort of thing like that. Be diplomatic that shows your professionalism.
Flaming people IMO is unprofessional and degrading and ruins everything for your fellow posters.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 14th, 2007, 9:24pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 9:21pm, Razor wrote:
Yeah Guys I agree with MarkM its ok to disagree on something and say so, but flaming other people doesnt wash so knock it off, as moderators we have the power to ban you from the forum or this board for that matter and lock the thread ruining eveything for everyone you really dont want us to do that do you?.
So dont flame people just say something like ( person your idea is nice or wrong or something like that , but I disagree with you for these reasons), or some sort of thing like that. Be diplomatic that shows your professionalism.
Flaming people IMO is unprofessional and degrading and ruins everything for your fellow posters.



Razor it's a spill-over argument from Open Minds Forum... maybe they should go back undecided
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 14th, 2007, 9:36pm

I thought as much Castlesforme. But Thanks for informing me. I would like to see them stay and be part of the Casebook family but technically they are in violation of the board rules as written by the admins and I can at this moment permanently ban them from this board without any further notice. I just thought it would be nice to give them a warning before I do in case they would like to play nice and continue to post and be a part of our organization.

Now thats not meant to sound like a threat but rather a friendly warning before we say goodbye to them.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Saladfingers on Sep 14th, 2007, 9:47pm

PMs, that would be lovely. Sadly not something the other party ever wanted to do, despite all attempts.

I've got no interest in staying here, please carry on enjoying the fun of UFOs!

Some really great people here, and very good thinkers.

I was only ever forced to join here to defend myself, no point in dragging it out though. I'm guessing ATO isn't going to retract her allegation of premeditation though, amoungst everything else. But i am the beast after all. shocked

Take care


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 14th, 2007, 10:05pm

Oh I wouldnt worry about it Saladfingers just post and have fun you guys can discuss without flaming each other theres no problem my warnings are just meant to let everyone know the possibilities of breaking board rules, nothing personal. Fun things cant exist unless we play nice.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by brm1 on Sep 14th, 2007, 10:18pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 9:16pm, castles4me wrote:
Arthur Reyes is too young to be Isaac based on the timeline at PACL.


Think fiction --
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 14th, 2007, 10:21pm

on Sep 14th, 2007, 9:47pm, Saladfingers wrote:
PMs, that would be lovely. Sadly not something the other party ever wanted to do, despite all attempts.

I've got no interest in staying here, please carry on enjoying the fun of UFOs!

Some really great people here, and very good thinkers.

I was only ever forced to join here to defend myself, no point in dragging it out though. I'm guessing ATO isn't going to retract her allegation of premeditation though, amoungst everything else. But i am the beast after all. shocked

Take care



I see you gave up and deleted your membership thats a shame you guys could have proven yourselves valuable members by guiding us on whats bad CG and good CG.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 14th, 2007, 10:31pm

Finally! Here's something new to analyze - the LMH Paranormal Cafe interview with drone info!!!!

http://paranormalcafe.podomatic.com/entry/eg/2007-09-14T20_23_53-07_00

About the last quarter of the interview it gets really fascinating. Part II should be up soon.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by newtothis on Sep 15th, 2007, 12:50am

on Sep 14th, 2007, 10:31pm, MarkM wrote:
Finally! Here's something new to analyze - the LMH Paranormal Cafe interview with drone info!!!!

http://paranormalcafe.podomatic.com/entry/eg/2007-09-14T20_23_53-07_00

About the last quarter of the interview it gets really fascinating. Part II should be up soon.


Very nice! Guess this rules out the "LMH knows its a hoax" theory!

She seemed pretty excited about the whole thing also! Someone really needs to get a hold of a few of the those Hi-Res BB pics for some more analysis..

Newt~
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by tommi01 on Sep 15th, 2007, 03:31am

on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:41pm, Saladfingers wrote:
My actual point, is that you can't go around saying it is real, as if it is some guarenteed fact.

Here it is...

_______________________________

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. This is terribly important. What tends to happen instead is that extraordinary claims lead to extraordinary conviction.

The True Believer ignores anything that doesn't fit his belief system.

And why do you believe in God?

So how do you know you're not fooling yourself?
Because i know it is real.


I don't think it's a brilliant read Salad.. It's a very old problem tackled for centuries by the ancient Greek philosophers. I referred you to Plato's cave. The same place I try to send my husband when he says similiar..

You've addressed a deeper issue Salad. Not the drones. If you don't believe something faith related, you can't experience it. This is why my thinking about the universe has to include some means of each of us generating the effects we create with our beliefs.

Ok, here goes, would you pray if you didn't believe in God. Would it be as effective? What about consulting the iching? You have to believe to see sometimes..


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Sep 15th, 2007, 06:24am

on Sep 14th, 2007, 10:31pm, MarkM wrote:
Finally! Here's something new to analyze - the LMH Paranormal Cafe interview with drone info!!!!

http://paranormalcafe.podomatic.com/entry/eg/2007-09-14T20_23_53-07_00

About the last quarter of the interview it gets really fascinating. Part II should be up soon.


The information about the crop circles was amazing. I like the idea that crop circles are symbols or part of the language Isaac talks about. This nexus ties two enigmas together. Whether the drone photos are manipulated or not seems less important than the nexus between the Isaac documents and crop circles. This starts to make it seem plausible.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 15th, 2007, 06:36am

on Sep 15th, 2007, 03:31am, tomi01uk wrote:
You've addressed a deeper issue Salad. Not the drones. If you don't believe something faith related, you can't experience it. This is why my thinking about the universe has to include some means of each of us generating the effects we create with our beliefs.

Ok, here goes, would you pray if you didn't believe in God. Would it be as effective? What about consulting the iching? You have to believe to see sometimes..

If we are still talking about the Drones then I don’t feel it’s a fair comparison to compare the belief in God to the belief of an image or a witness statement.

It’s two different types of belief completely. The belief in a divine power can only be arrived at via a show of faith but images and statements should be assessed with the relevant facts.

Ask any court/juror/judge.

“If you don't believe something faith related, you can't experience it.”

How does that work, how would anyone, “See the light” or be, “Born again” or “Find faith” if the belief in it is a prerequisite to recognizing, accepting and experiencing it?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 15th, 2007, 06:39am

on Sep 15th, 2007, 06:24am, Gort wrote:
The information about the crop circles was amazing. I like the idea that crop circles are symbols or part of the language Isaac talks about. This nexus ties two enigmas together. Whether the drone photos are manipulated or not seems less important than the nexus between the Isaac documents and crop circles. This starts to make it seem plausible.


It would appear to me that LMH is grasping at straws as after spending nearly the whole interview on Crop Circles she mentions Isaac and then claims that SHE noticed the LAP panels?

You remember, the ones she was told about by forum members, she repeatedly says, “I did this”, & “I noticed that.”

She then attempts to draw a direct correlation between the Crop Circles and Isaac, but LMH’s last sentence is priceless,

(Isaac stressed the diagrams are self activating, “IN A FIELD.”)

It’s painfully obvious that LMH implies Isaac was talking about a, “Farmers field” i.e. earth, stones, crops etc. She even pauses for effect then over-annunciates, "IN A FIELD.” undecided

Isaac said,
“But their technology is different. It really did operate like the magical piece of paper sitting on a table, in a manner of speaking. They had something akin to a language, that could quite literally execute itself, at least in the presence of a very specific type of field.”

A SPECIFIC TYPE OF FIELD!! Yeah, sure, does this sound like one which would grow hay or straw which it would seem like LMH is reaching for by the handful if she expects anyone to believe this.

Hopefully the second part will clarify or qualify this bizarre assertion.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 15th, 2007, 07:51am

Interesting link about antigravity engines:

http://se-engine.org/

VonStern
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by nekitamo on Sep 15th, 2007, 08:15am

on Sep 14th, 2007, 9:16pm, castles4me wrote:
Arthur Reyes is too young to be Isaac based on the timeline at PACL.

What kind of logic is this? If this is a hoax, PACL never existed.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 15th, 2007, 08:32am

I think LMH was referring to an energy field, although the earth itself has an energy field so it's not inconceivable that - understanding the theory behind the symbols - there could be an interaction. What is the program being run, that's the question (if we think of the wheat field as that piece of paper)?

I really don't know how much investigation she put into the material that she had before releasing it on her site. There's a lot that we aren't privy to. Having had those hi res photos (before we did), in which the symbols are plain as day, it's entirely possible that she did make the connection. She may well have been getting all of her ducks in a row before going on record. We just don't know. We can surmise that she has "experts" that she refers to who are at least as smart and observant as the experts we have here smiley!

I hope that she continues to expound on the drones in Part Two and doesn't digress into Big Foot! While the info is encouraging, remember that the interview isn't recent, For some reason it's taken them forever to archive that show. Hopefully, things haven't changed since.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Raf on Sep 15th, 2007, 08:48am

Gort wrote:

Quote:
You people are off on another wild goose chase, forget about Mufon. Don't you realize what “reader” has said, investigate that.


What do you care? If they are, its their own goosechase. If they aren't and are onto something real, again...why do you care?

I've spent the last hour catching up in this thread and all I can see from you are attempts to derail any discussion here and to promote MUFON investigative techniques.

Why are you here?

Raf
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 15th, 2007, 08:55am

on Sep 15th, 2007, 08:32am, MarkM wrote:
I think LMH was referring to an energy field, although the earth itself has an energy field so it's not inconceivable that - understanding the theory behind the symbols - there could be an interaction. What is the program being run, that's the question (if we think of the wheat field as that piece of paper)?

I really don't know how much investigation she put into the material that she had before releasing it on her site. There's a lot that we aren't privy to. Having had those hi res photos (before we did), in which the symbols are plain as day, it's entirely possible that she did make the connection. She may well have been getting all of her ducks in a row before going on record. We just don't know. We can surmise that she has "experts" that she refers to who are at least as smart and observant as the experts we have here smiley!

I hope that she continues to expound on the drones in Part Two and doesn't digress into Big Foot! While the info is encouraging, remember that the interview isn't recent, For some reason it's taken them forever to archive that show. Hopefully, things haven't changed since.


Hmm, I never thought of it like that, that makes sense but she spoke at length (40 minutes) about crop circles in fields, then right at the end the way that she said, “In a field,” I took it to mean in a more literal sense. If that’s not what she meant then that’s a VERY unfortunate place to edit/split the interview. grin

Hopefully not long to wait to find out either way!!

I hope part 2 is as long as part 1 because it sounds as though she’s just getting started on the Drones, but as you say she has her fingers in a lot of pies, so who knows?

(Edit To Add: I said Forum members as I couldn’t remember but I thought it was IVO at OMF that secured the release of the hi-res BB craft by offering the hypothesis of the LAP and the BB panels complimenting each other. And within a day or so the story was on Earthfiles, I may be wrong so that’s why I previously omitted this.
Tomi or Latitude will know.)

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Gort on Sep 15th, 2007, 09:36am

on Sep 15th, 2007, 08:48am, Raf wrote:
Gort wrote:



What do you care? If they are, its their own goosechase. If they aren't and are onto something real, again...why do you care?

I've spent the last hour catching up in this thread and all I can see from you are attempts to derail any discussion here and to promote MUFON investigative techniques.

Why are you here?

Raf


Why do you care?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 15th, 2007, 09:49am

OK Gort and Raf - you're even now smiley!

As long as folks are respectful the time wasting element is purely subjective.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 15th, 2007, 12:04pm

If I turned my computer on later tonight and there was definitive proof that the whole drone affair was a big hoax, I would be surprised and disappointed, but not shocked. If there's one thing I've learned in life it's that very few things are a sure bet. However, there are aspects to this mystery that - once you begin to understand the complexity involved - are mind boggling to the extent that they're just too "out there" to be made up!

Take away all of the drone photos, every single one of them. Take away the eyewitnesses. Shred all of the Isaac material except for the language primer. What you are left with is the first thing that struck many of us all those months ago and which LMH latched onto right away - the crop circle connection.

For decades no one has been able to figure out the meaning and purpose of the circles. Sure, some have been faked (it happens), but a healthy percentage defy explanation. What if the language primer - and the way that it interacts with and instigates an action - is the key to understanding the circles? Perhaps that was the very purpose of the drones exposing themselves in the first place. They - and especially the BB one (which by the way is the one that looks the most unbelievable) - are like bizarre billboards. Like the seaplane dragging the "Lobster Diner $9.99" banner over beach goers, it got our attention focused on the symbols. And when we looked, we realized that we'd seen something very similar before. In the crop circles.

We might then think of the Earth as a drone. A "vehicle" whose activity can be influenced by these symbols and patterns in exactly the same way as the drones.
We've long been puzzled by the weird design of these craft. There may be a reason for that which we haven't even considered. They certainly made us all sit up and take notice! And what did we notice? The symbols and the mystical world of alien physics that might explain them.

This story has lots of angles. I think that's why it's a mistake to fixate on only one area. When all is said and done we may find that the drones are educational tools. Something to boost us along in our understanding of what might be happening here, on this much bigger "drone".
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 15th, 2007, 12:07pm

on Sep 15th, 2007, 09:49am, MarkM wrote:
OK Gort and Raf - you're even now smiley!

As long as folks are respectful the time wasting element is purely subjective.


Mark,

Can you explain to me the mindset of the people that only post against a topic? I have never understood it. I have said before that I don't believe in many of the topics that go around in ufology and especially in the associated paranormal but I would never consider hanging out in a forum only to post against a subject.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 15th, 2007, 12:22pm

I have to admit that my skeptical side is having a hard time making the connection between the crop circles and the drones. It would be nice if some of the language symbols or something from the LAP was in a crop circle but to my knowledge that has never been proved. Can anybody site a crop circle example that makes the connection?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by DrDil on Sep 15th, 2007, 12:48pm

on Sep 15th, 2007, 12:22pm, Latitude wrote:
I have to admit that my skeptical side is having a hard time making the connection between the crop circles and the drones. It would be nice if some of the language symbols or something from the LAP was in a crop circle but to my knowledge that has never been proved. Can anybody site a crop circle example that makes the connection?

I’ve had this post wrote out for ages now (along with many, many others!!) that for whatever reason I decided not to post, but as it seems kind of relevant now….

--------------------------------


Quite a while ago a correlation was drawn between the shape of the Drones and their similarities to existing Crop Circles.

At the time I could see certain similarities but recently while browsing I came across a web site that re-created digital representations of Crop Circles. While all the images are very good, there certainly seems to be a few that when viewed like this, (3d CGI representations) seem to bear a resemblance to the structure of the Drones

This could be because they are designed by the same alien hand, or because whoever created the Drone looked to the Crop Circles for inspiration, or could be simple coincidence, either way I found it interesting.

Here are a couple that caught my attention.

User Image

The creator of these images writes:

“In an attempt to experience Crop Circles on a deeper level, I copied my favourite designs at the computer and went APE! While not as impressive as the real deal, I thought the results of my experiments might appeal to all you Crop Circle Fans...”


Visit CropCircleArt.com

Here’s another similarly themed image.

User Image

--------------------------------


I’m not advocating the theory as I, like Latitude don’t believe it’s true (we agree but for different reasons wink) but I can appreciate there’s a chance it could be.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by onthefence55 on Sep 15th, 2007, 1:10pm

on Sep 15th, 2007, 12:22pm, Latitude wrote:
Can anybody site a crop circle example that makes the connection?


Although weak, these are the only two direct examples I could find that link the LAP to crop circles:

User Image

User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 15th, 2007, 1:35pm

on Sep 15th, 2007, 1:10pm, onthefence55 wrote:
Although weak, these are the only two direct examples I could find that link the LAP to crop circles:



Any similarity may only be coincidental. It could be the drone race is not the same one responsible for (real) crop circles. Isaac stated there are many races.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Razor on Sep 15th, 2007, 1:37pm

Hi Latitude,
Your post is really good in my opinion, I think that sometimes people just get it in their minds that a concept may be wrong and want to convince us of this so strongly, that if they cant convince us that it is wrong, then they wish to destroy our faith in it. Thats my thought anyway.

Hi MarkM Your last post on this subject is great. Somewhere in the back of my mind I feel that there is some reason for this Issac discussion and its evidence but I would like to say that I think some of the pictures and some of the Ideas that have been introduced are bogus. Why this is so only the people that have told us bogus things know in their agenda.

But I have often found where there is smoke there is fire, so I highly encourage everyone to continue these discussions and who knows you may find some truth.
If it turns out bogus you all will have had the fun of sharing your Ideas.
Quite honestly reading back over the material all of you have had interesting ideas and things to say (and I stress strongly all of you ) even those guys who werent being so nice.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 15th, 2007, 3:37pm

You're right, Razor - half the fun is in the journey. We may turn over a hundred rocks and find only worms, but sure as heck the one we leave unturned will hide the diamond!

Awesome pics, DrDil. Who knows what inspired what? There are so many overlaps of cultures throughout history, why not an alien influence as well?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by onthefence55 on Sep 15th, 2007, 3:49pm

A tribute to Lev, for those who think that Lev is just one guy, and not a group:

User Image
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Raf on Sep 15th, 2007, 3:59pm


Fair enough, Mark. My only point was that this thread had a decent, civil conversation going. Pros, cons etc.. but everyone had point to their posts and were on topic.

Raf


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by VonStern on Sep 15th, 2007, 4:58pm

on Sep 15th, 2007, 12:04pm, MarkM wrote:
If I turned my computer on later tonight and there was definitive proof that the whole drone affair was a big hoax, I would be surprised and disappointed, but not shocked. If there's one thing I've learned in life it's that very few things are a sure bet. However, there are aspects to this mystery that - once you begin to understand the complexity involved - are mind boggling to the extent that they're just too "out there" to be made up!

Take away all of the drone photos, every single one of them. Take away the eyewitnesses. Shred all of the Isaac material except for the language primer. What you are left with is the first thing that struck many of us all those months ago and which LMH latched onto right away - the crop circle connection.

For decades no one has been able to figure out the meaning and purpose of the circles. Sure, some have been faked (it happens), but a healthy percentage defy explanation. What if the language primer - and the way that it interacts with and instigates an action - is the key to understanding the circles? Perhaps that was the very purpose of the drones exposing themselves in the first place. They - and especially the BB one (which by the way is the one that looks the most unbelievable) - are like bizarre billboards. Like the seaplane dragging the "Lobster Diner $9.99" banner over beach goers, it got our attention focused on the symbols. And when we looked, we realized that we'd seen something very similar before. In the crop circles.

We might then think of the Earth as a drone. A "vehicle" whose activity can be influenced by these symbols and patterns in exactly the same way as the drones.
We've long been puzzled by the weird design of these craft. There may be a reason for that which we haven't even considered. They certainly made us all sit up and take notice! And what did we notice? The symbols and the mystical world of alien physics that might explain them.

This story has lots of angles. I think that's why it's a mistake to fixate on only one area. When all is said and done we may find that the drones are educational tools. Something to boost us along in our understanding of what might be happening here, on this much bigger "drone".


MarkM, I've had similar thoughts, we must think alot alike! laugh

Take a look at my beliefs here:

http://vonstern.homepage.dk/Magazine.html

VonStern



Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 15th, 2007, 6:25pm

Yup. Great minds link alike VonStern - and there are plenty of them here!
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by LangLee on Sep 15th, 2007, 6:51pm

DrDill and onthefence55 that's some good stuff there.
All of this stuff seems so complex at this time, at this time I say. Imagine trying to build your basic home computer/gaming computer with 1940's or '50's tube technology ? I dare say it wouldn't be a "home" computer, you'd have to have your own State to put in in. That's an exagerration but you get the point.
Now to my point , some time ago I saw a show about smart metal, I have it somewhere. It was a liquid metal that hardened when an electrical charge was applied or placed in an electical field. Don't we also have materials that react to it's environment, such as the paint that coats the inside of a Funny Car body, when heated it thickens providing more heat/flame resistance. That stuff is from NASA.
Isn't material that reacts to diagram/code a natural progression in technology ? It may not seem so to some because of what we don't know or think is impossible. Everything we've accomplished as a race at some time was thought to be impossible until someone or someone's figured out a way to do it.
If this is a hoax, it's all not lies, but I still haven't seen any proof that it is. I've read that so and so had his professional CGI movie guys look and they say it is. OK, who are they ? That's like me saying my deceased grandmother looked at them and said hoax, she's gone and they have no names, therefore they aren't here, useless words.
All of those similarities in the diagrams found by the above mentioned DrDill and OTF55 are an accident ? Looks like everything is connected, just have to place the pieces in the right places.


http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/morphingmetals.html
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 15th, 2007, 9:41pm

on Sep 15th, 2007, 08:55am, DrDil wrote:
(Edit To Add: I said Forum members as I couldn’t remember but I thought it was IVO at OMF that secured the release of the hi-res BB craft by offering the hypothesis of the LAP and the BB panels complimenting each other. And within a day or so the story was on Earthfiles, I may be wrong so that’s why I previously omitted this.
Tomi or Latitude will know.)


I know we talked on this forum about the BB panel and the LAP being the same or similar a LONG time before hi-res pictures came out.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 15th, 2007, 9:54pm

on Sep 15th, 2007, 12:04pm, MarkM wrote:
Take away all of the drone photos, every single one of them. Take away the eyewitnesses. Shred all of the Isaac material except for the language primer. What you are left with is the first thing that struck many of us all those months ago and which LMH latched onto right away - the crop circle connection.


This was the very first thing that struck me about the Linguistic Primers also was the similarity between the shapes of the language and the formations of the crop circles especially those that had more than one circle.

I think we noticed that right off the bat, WAY before LMH ever did her interview. It is all very interesting stuff. I really wonder if when a crop circle is put there if it is executing a command, and what that command may be.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 15th, 2007, 10:03pm

on Sep 15th, 2007, 3:49pm, onthefence55 wrote:
A tribute to Lev, for those who think that Lev is just one guy, and not a group:



My son walked by when I had this on the screen and said "what are you doing mom, looking for love on the internet?" LOL (he was joking of course, it was funny!)
laugh
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by castles4me on Sep 15th, 2007, 10:07pm

on Yesterday at 9:16pm, castles4me wrote: Quote:
Arthur Reyes is too young to be Isaac based on the timeline at PACL.


on Sep 15th, 2007, 08:15am, nekitamo wrote:
What kind of logic is this? If this is a hoax, PACL never existed.


Right... it's just someone said that they think Arthur Reyes is Isaac.... I was just saying he is too young to be Isaac, IF that is what they meant..... probably they were saying that Arthur Reyes created the hoax, then correct... PACL never existed if it was a hoax.

I don't care one way or another, because I don't think it's a hoax.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by hjdelight on Sep 15th, 2007, 10:20pm

This is complex to the extreme if it's a hoax. There would have to be an organization of some sort to pull it off. No one does something this expensive and difficult without a return of some sort; be it money, power or an objective we can only guess at. I think if it's a hoax, we are dealing with a government or military operation. This begs the question of why. What can they gain? We can't get the media to even notice these sightings or any ufo report so discrediting ufo folks is a waste of time because that's already been accomplished. A forum member pointed out to me that the Drones blew the O'Hare sighting away. No more reports or discussions on what was possibly one of the most verifiable sightings in a long while. You could assume that a hoax was perpetrated to draw attention away from a legitimate sighting but I think the time frame is far too short for anyone but God to arrange such a hoax that quickly. I guess this is just another argument against it being a hoax. Why would an organization do such a thing? Any ideas?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 15th, 2007, 10:42pm

All excellent points, HJ. To me one of the most bizarre aspects of this whole case is the sudden and absolute silence. LMH, most baffling of all. She sounded so excited in that interview ..... but nothing on her website in weeks (or is it months, I've lost count)? I'm just left shaking my head in bewilderment.

One would think that if it were a hoax something would have broken by now. No prank, no matter how sophisticated, is that air tight.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by LangLee on Sep 15th, 2007, 10:58pm

on Sep 15th, 2007, 10:42pm, MarkM wrote:
All excellent points, HJ. To me one of the most bizarre aspects of this whole case is the sudden and absolute silence. LMH, most baffling of all. She sounded so excited in that interview ..... but nothing on her website in weeks (or is it months, I've lost count)? I'm just left shaking my head in bewilderment.

One would think that if it were a hoax something would have broken by now. No prank, no matter how sophisticated, is that air tight.


Really, Whitley was supposed to go out there. If he had found something for or against wouldn't he have said something ?
At least someone would've said yah ,yah yah, you all were fooled, and here's the proof, but nothing.
I think the silence means that no one knows, we have the evidence for, but there is none against Then with the Crop Circle similarities to the CARET doc diagrams that probably knocked people back on their heels and added to the mystery.
And perhaps some credibility ?
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by hjdelight on Sep 15th, 2007, 11:26pm

I agree. Where is the payoff? It just died as if someone pulled the plug. Maybe LMH is writing a book but then again maybe she isn't. There were many many witnesses of Roswell that were threatened with death to keep them quiet. Now that some are in their death beds and they have nothing to lose, confirmation is slowly coming out. I'm passionate about the ufo question but if some guys in suits showed up on my doorstep and said I should drop it or me and my family would be entrees in a house BBQ, so long ufos! It wouldn't be worth it. Maybe Isaac decided the same along with the witnesses and maybe Linda.


Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by notafulldeck on Sep 16th, 2007, 02:23am

Decloaking-Cloaking events...
In and out of visible spectrum of light (infra-red or ultra-violet)??
Or interdimentional transition??

If it is a wavelength issue, could those interferometers discussed recently on this thread possibly effect wavelength and produce momentary visibility??
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Smisser on Sep 16th, 2007, 05:07am

I have found this site.

http://www.circlemakers.org/htv.html
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by raska on Sep 16th, 2007, 05:39am

on Sep 15th, 2007, 9:54pm, castles4me wrote:
This was the very first thing that struck me about the Linguistic Primers also was the similarity between the shapes of the language and the formations of the crop circles especially those that had more than one circle.
I think we noticed that right off the bat, WAY before LMH ever did her interview. It is all very interesting stuff. I really wonder if when a crop circle is put there if it is executing a command, and what that command may be.

I' m very much interested in this part of your discussion ! The importance of the link Language/Crops is enormous (imo) and gives some clues as for the applications of the drones's symbols.

The self-executing language could be responsible for creating the crops geometric designs ,it does act on living matter (growing wheat) and so , does act on human beings, animals, plants.

-We know that " invisible objects "create the crops during the night
-The drones are invisible (except in the decloaking accident)
-The drones are seen in may (summer season, crops growing)
-some part of Isaac's language appear on the Chad 's drone
-then, we have the 2 crops pics OTF put up above

IF the drones had been decloaked in the UK, or, if all crops occurred in " wheat fields of California !" the link between the 2 'd been discussed till no end.

LMH has always been very crop oriented , and if she feels strongly there's a definite connection drone/language/crops , then, she knows she's got a pot of gold and keeps apparently quiet while doing her own research ? i hope so. smiley
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by isawaufooverparis on Sep 16th, 2007, 09:11am

on Sep 16th, 2007, 05:07am, Smisser wrote:
I have found this site.

http://www.circlemakers.org/htv.html

This site is very interesting because John Lundberg thinks strange things do happen in Wiltshire:
"Our work generates response, often from other circlemakers, and can sometimes act to catalyse a wide range of paranormal events. I still believe there is a genuine phenomenon, but I now also believe that we're a part of it."

Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by MarkM on Sep 16th, 2007, 09:22am

Our Mod HUBCAP9 in the UK is our resident crop circle expert. He's worked with many of the experts in studying them. He's convinced that there are indeed hoax circles (as with anything, there are copy cats), but that there are very definite ways to tell the difference. We should probably get his take on this.

http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=crop
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by notafulldeck on Sep 16th, 2007, 10:12am

From MJ-12 documentation and Alternative #2 (subterranean facilities for human-EBE operations)...

Look at Caret photo of black mole-shaped object and then this description from MAJIC program (MJ-12) documentation dating back decades...

Robert Salter, of the RAND Corporation, has suggested building a
subway from New York to Los Angeles magnetically levitated above the
tracks. The trains would zip through the evacuated tunnels at speeds
faster than an SST, crossing the country in less than one hour. Building
such a train presents no special technological problems, but the cost of
tunneling from coast to coast would. To be economically feasible,
engineers would have to develop a new way to dig. The federal
government's Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory, in New Mexico, however, may
have an answer to this challenge. Called the Subterrene, the Los Alamos
machine looks like a vicious giant mole. The beauty of the Subterrene is
that, as it burrows through the rock hundreds of feet below the surface,
it heats whatever stone it encounters into molten rock, or magma, which
cools after the Subterrene has moved on. The result is a tunnel with a
smooth, glazed lining. For power, the Subterrene can use a built-in
minature nuclear engine or even a conventional power plant.

NOTE: I have seen this machine, and watched it in action. Normal
rate of speed is approximately six and one/half miles per hour depending
on Type of rock, sand, etc.
.....Col. Wilson



Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 16th, 2007, 10:37am

Could it be that what Isaac is saying, quote=Most importantly be very, wary of anyone who claims to' know the mind of extraterrestrials.That when it comes to the drones or linguistic and ufos they ET had to of asisted whomever, before hand on other tech from ET before constructing to understand the work,you dont just start reading this type language over night. further more what I amsaying point being ET taught phycises and language experts before Isaac ever got his job and any one ealse as for as that goes or none of this would be today. what do any one think?someone had to even be taugh cg to hoax dont day?we all went to school didwe not? you dont just come off the top of your thinking and just build stealth or shuttles and calculate distances to the moon and back their is a lot of ET help coming when we do come up with tech ect. we here are show and tell type people exspeacly after we have invented something of good use no coutry came come and take. when we go to the moon or on a space mission arent their russians in those space capsles with americans? so that bull a bout some one stealing american tech or russian tech ect is bull. or nucaler thats crap to put something on the working peoples mind. this is a one world order now, the race now is for property in space ,keep control of earth, find more like earth with ETs help.when they give it to them thats the only secret held back from poor goverments so the richest continets buy those small third world goverments off. finaly this drone thing is real,its complecated to the best of us all, we dont need the news or whom ever,we need ET the ones who knows on our side another hard test they come at their own will. have a nice day. grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 16th, 2007, 10:44am

on Sep 15th, 2007, 10:20pm, hjdelight wrote:
Why would an organization do such a thing? Any ideas?


As I've mentioned before I regularly check out ATS even though I for the most part despise it. The drone discussion has pretty much died off. The hoax believers got tired of telling each other it's a hoax. They now have a thread that is trying to decide how the hoax was done and why. Suffice it to say, they already have 14 pages in that thread but are still perplexed. They have no answers, only esoteric ramblings.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Latitude on Sep 16th, 2007, 10:48am

on Sep 16th, 2007, 09:22am, MarkM wrote:
Our Mod HUBCAP9 in the UK is our resident crop circle expert. He's worked with many of the experts in studying them. He's convinced that there are indeed hoax circles (as with anything, there are copy cats), but that there are very definite ways to tell the difference. We should probably get his take on this.


I would guess that close examination of the wheat stalks may provide a clue whether it's real. I noticed that some crop circles have tracks in them where it looks like hoaxers have used stamping boards. Other circles don't have these tracks. I guess those could be the real ones.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by jugement on Sep 16th, 2007, 11:06am

something ealse; they cant call the drones ufo,s they have to call them IFO,s. IDENTIFIED FLING OBJECTS. grin
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by Nephilim on Sep 16th, 2007, 11:09am

Hey folks, I have been busy lately and spending my time here posting in the other sections of the forums. I have not read but the first couple of pages in the Isaac #5 thread...

Has there been any new information from Isaac since the email info? Any new sightings? I have been reviewing the main page and have not seen any new articles about strange craft or drone, but I could have missed.

When I have more time, I will skim through this thread for catch up, was just wandering if any new revelations.
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
Post by LangLee on Sep 16th, 2007, 11:52am

on Sep 16th, 2007, 10:12am, notafulldeck wrote:
From MJ-12 documentation and Alternative #2 (subterranean facilities for human-EBE operations)...

Look at Caret photo of black mole-shaped object and then this description from MAJIC program (MJ-12) documentation dating back decades...

Robert Salter, of the RAND Corporation, has suggested building a
subway from New York to Los Angeles magnetically levitated above the
tracks. The trains would zip through the evacuated tunnels at speeds
faster than an SST, crossing the country in less than one hour. Building
such a train presents no special technological problems, but the cost of
tunneling from coast to coast would. To be economically feasible,
engineers would have to develop a new way to dig. The federal
government's Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory, in New Mexico, however, may
have an answer to this challenge. Called the Subterrene, the Los Alamos
machine looks like a vicious giant mole. The beauty of the Subterrene is
that, as it burrows through the rock hundreds of feet below the surface,
it heats whatever stone it encounters into molten rock, or magma, which
cools after the Subterrene has moved on. The result is a tunnel with a
smooth, glazed lining. For power, the Subterrene can use a built-in
minature nuclear engine or even a conventional power plant.

NOTE: I have seen this machine, and watched it in action. Normal
rate of speed is approximately six and one/half miles per hour depending
on Type of rock, sand, etc.
.....Col. Wilson





I don't know what you think of this guy.....he's dead, but he spoke of this being real.
It's a long one , but it's good.
Take what is useful..............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b5Ea3dgK3c&mode=related&search
Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE