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Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 13th, 2009, 07:34am

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(UFOCasebook Main Page)

Quote:
Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007

Petten, Holland, September, 2007

Published by the UFO Casebook: 11:27 AM 4/12/2009

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The photographer/eyewitness to the event states:

I was fishing with my wife, when I noticed something in the sky. I could not see what it was, because off in the distance we saw it as a black spot.

Altitude was about 300 meters. I took my camera, Nikon D50 and had a 300 mm lens on it. I just shot some pics (about 12), ao I could see it on the computer.

It stayed for about half an hour, and then it disappeared (we didn't see it flying away). Photograph was taken in Holland, near Petten, on September 8, 2007.


regards,

Name withheld

Source: UFOCasebook

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Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 14th, 2009, 4:37pm

http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=reports&action=display&num=1239626074 Ruudys Thread
http://www.ufocasebook.com/2009b/pettenholland2007b.html Bjs INdex New Ruudy Pix

http://www.ufocasebook.com/2009b/pettenlarge2.jpg Very large size
http://www.ufocasebook.com/2009b/pettenlarge3.jpg l Very Large

Hi Marvin, Lets all go to Ruudy's thread and finish this there.
He just put up two untouched pix.

Thanx Ruud, hope the rest come soon to..we will try to see what actual movement occurred, when we have all the pix, and get some indication of size by simple ratio, of pole height/ object height, and relative distance to object. may be skewed of ocourse because all we know is the possibly the actual height of pole.
Thanx for clearing up your east position from shore and pole. essentially the pole is actually close to midway between you and it.
Can you remember name of camp or canal you were at
Regards
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by jugement on Apr 14th, 2009, 5:04pm

whats up everyone; could that be a very tiny little bug or spider inside the lens of the camera? huh
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by neveleeleven on Apr 14th, 2009, 8:15pm

I'm wondering why he felt the need to change the "Contrast" from "Normal" to "Hard" between picture 0734 and 0735.

The EXIF data shows this change to have taken place between:

2007:09:08 18:17:12 Contrast : Normal
2007:09:08 18:20:12 Contrast : Hard

-

Also he claims there was no wind, yet, when you animate the picture together, you can see strong cloud movement.

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The animation above is 0732, 0734, 0735 all taken 4 seconds apart. The animation however is only 10/100th's of a second apart.

He also claims the object was just hanging there, and all evidence shows the object really jumping around. Also moving forward and backwards at one point.

I believe this to be another fake. Maybe edited EXIF.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by neveleeleven on Apr 14th, 2009, 8:24pm

Here is picture 0739 and 0740 with the object on the bottom left aligned, but not perfect.

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2007:09:08 18:21:10
2007:09:08 18:21:18

If this object was real, it would have been all over the place. However, I'm almost 100% sure it is fake.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 14th, 2009, 8:39pm

11 I don't follow.

If you slow the animation down to the 2 seconds does it still look wrong to you? When I look at it delayed per picture times, it's not beyond what I would expect for a kite (which is what I believe it is).
Looking at something in the sky at a distance and saying it is stationary even if moving a little bit is understandable too. Through a view finder I don't know.
I don't always trust animations not at actual times.

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by neveleeleven on Apr 14th, 2009, 9:01pm

on Apr 14th, 2009, 8:39pm, Katterfelto wrote:
11 I don't follow.


The animations don't do it justice.. I did them quickly...

Here is another example:
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Larger Version:
http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=loser2o.gif

This is picture 0740 and 0741 with the clouds in the background aligned together. The thickness of the object changes drastically within the SECOND. The animation is spaced 1 second apart.

2007:09:08 18:21:18
SubSecTime : 40
2007:09:08 18:21:19

Ruud is not telling the truth.





Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by neveleeleven on Apr 14th, 2009, 9:24pm

Also,

I found a picture from a real NIKON D50 camera, and compared the EXIF to the EXIF from Ruud's camera, and found a weird difference:

REAL: ExposureProgram : Manual
RUUD: ExposureProgram : Unknown (0)

Real D50 camera test image:
http://www.digitalreview.ca/D50test/DSC_0023.JPG

I'm not sure what would cause the ExposureProgram EXIF to say Unknown, but I don't think it is natural.

-Also the compression is different? Not sure why...

REAL: CompressedBitsPerPixel : 4/1 (bit/pixel)
RUUD: CompressedBitsPerPixel : 2/1 (bit/pixel)

Bit-depth info:
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/bit-depth.htm
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 14th, 2009, 10:54pm

Very Interesting Nev, I see that change as well now.
Maybe it its Morphing!
That camera data..hmm again and again, .what explanation is their for that missing data...Time for the explainaways.
I checked for the wind patterns that day and time, and winds were blowing about 15-38 knots.whatever measure they use in marine terminology. Thats why those areas are ideal for wind power. course you all are much better than me interpreting these things. But that casts serious doubt on no wind.

http://www.buoyweather.com
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The other problem I have, and I hope he can clarify, is that I asked why wait almost two years, and he said it just happened. Did he mean this is a recent occurrence?, is his camera date incorrect or what. That confused me.
I asked HPO and Nick to what they thought But I didnt get an answer.
So returning to the google maps I doubt whether there was such a variance considering whether anywhere at or near Petten, to accommodate the statement. They all face the same ocean.
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Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by neveleeleven on Apr 15th, 2009, 12:14am

One thing I learned while taking long walks on the beach is that it is always breezy near the water.

Actually, any extremely large flat area with no obstacles in the way has a potential for lots of wind.

Like large grass fields such as golf courses, football fields, recreation parks, also large empty deserts, and sand dunes, and especially large bodies of water like lakes, and oceans, and sometimes swimming pool yards.

Of course, if you don't enjoy nature by going swimming in lakes, taking long walks on the beach, or riding motocross in the desert, and playing sports in grass fields like me, and you are busy creating fake hoaxes on the computer all day, I guess you wouldn't really know that.

Oh how I love nature. grin


on Apr 14th, 2009, 10:54pm, Quincy wrote:
The other problem I have, and I hope he can clarify, is that I asked why wait almost two years, and he said it just happened. Did he mean this is a recent occurrence?, is his camera date incorrect or what. That confused me.


I believe the EXIF was edited. So I wouldn't trust the date.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 15th, 2009, 01:00am

grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin
I wonder how close HPO is to there. Maybe his coworkers know something, or heard thru the grapevine, or when they went fishing or sporting.
Just a thought smiley
Oh I luv nature walks on the beach. , I'm a regular Johnatan Livingston Seagull! You should see me feeding Seaguls at the parking lots too. Of course, many customers returning to their cars don't appreciate the blessings left on their Windshiels and roofs. sad
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 15th, 2009, 2:20pm

on Apr 15th, 2009, 10:54am, Ruud wrote:
I can tell you we were camping at camping de Watersnip near Petten. Went fishing in the afternoon I still remember that because my parents also were at the camping and they made dinner. Around the camping there is a small canal. I just flip through some bushes and I am near that water. It is not to the direction of the beach. It is in the opposite direction. May be you can find a siren in that direction (on google earth).
It is very good possible that the time of the camera was not correct. I made the pics defenitly in the afternoon that is for sure. The date is important for me, the time on the camera is for me not so interesting may be it was summertime or something like that. You have to believe me for that, it was between 1 o'clock and 5 o'clock. And I guessed it was round 1.30. That is I believe also what I wrote in my mail. Next time I see an object I will first set the time correct and then I will take pictures.
What about the wind. There was where we were fishing no wind. I can say that because I hate fishing in the wind. Small waves are irritating, possible that there was little bit wind at the open field. But it can't have been very much. We ate outside so it wasn't cold either.
Neveleeleven, I looked through my camera using my chair to create a steady image. At such a distand even the smallest movement makes rare image. That is why I took several shots. Hoping there was something I could see.
If there are any questions I will be glad to answer them.
Just don't get personal. It is now almost 6 o'clock and dinner is ready smiley.

Regards Ruud







Hello Ruud,

Have patients, the motley crew here can be a rowdy bunch.

Can you tell me about how long you took to take the photos (the time between the first photo and the last)?

Do you recall your movements when you took the photos (did you stay in one place or move around a lot)?

I have found a second object in the photos (when I used edge detection), do you recall seeing any other objects?

Thanks for your help.

Marvin


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 15th, 2009, 2:23pm

Published by the UFO Casebook: 11:19 AM 4/14/2009


On 04-12-09, the UFO Casebook released a photograph of a drone like object, submitted by a gentleman from Holland. He had related to me that he had a total of 12 photographs taken at the time, and I asked him to send me more of the photos. He responded by sending me two additional snaps of the object.

Visit here for the image links.


The three photographs are very similar in nature, but because I have been asked for more photos, I am posting them now.

The two photos below are linked below to the full size, 3008 x 2000 pixel photographs. They are untouched, just as they were taken from his camera.

thank you,

B J Booth

Webmaster

www.ufocasebook.com

Original untouched, 3008 x 2000 pixel photograph 2.

Original untouched, 3008 x 2000 pixel photograph 3.

permanent link: http://www.ufocasebook.com/2009b/pettenholland2007b.html

source & references: Submitted to / Published by UFO Casebook

Visit here for the image links.


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 15th, 2009, 2:25pm

Quote:
Petten, Holland Drone-like Craft, Entire Photo Gallery

I have had another conversation with the man from Petten, Holland. He has been very cooperative and understanding about the possible importance of his photographs, and has sent me the entire gallery of 13.

I thought it would be more feasible to post a zip file, containing the entire 13 photographs. For your convenience, I am including a list of the photographs, names, date, and times of each one.

Thanks to all of you who have shown an interest in the photos. These photographs may be posted freely on web sites, blogs, etc. for the purpose of education and research. We only ask for a link back to the UFO Casebook.

I had a phone conversation with Linda Moulton Howe this afternoon, and we are collaborating on the research and information gathering aspect of the Holland drone-like photographs... more info will be coming soon. thanks again,

Download Petten Holland Photo Gallery zip file.

The zip file is 17.6 megabytes.

The zip file can be unzipped with Winrar, a free utility.

B J Booth

Webmaster

www.ufocasebook.com

Here is a list of the photo info:

Date--------Time------Photo ID#

09-08-07 @ 6:16 PM, DSC_0731

09-08-07 @ 6:17 PM, DSC_0732

09-08-07 @ 6:17 PM, DSC_0733

09-08-07 @ 6:17 PM, DSC_0734

09-08-07 @ 6:20 PM, DSC_0735

09-08-07 @ 6:20 PM, DSC_0736

09-08-07 @ 6:20 PM, DSC_0737

09-08-07 @ 6:21 PM, DSC_0738

09-08-07 @ 6:21 PM, DSC_0739

09-08-07 @ 6:21 PM, DSC_0740

09-08-07 @ 6:21 PM, DSC_0741

09-08-07 @ 6:21 PM, DSC_0742


permanent link: http://www.ufocasebook.com/2009b/pettenholland3.html

source & references: Published by the UFO Casebook

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 15th, 2009, 2:29pm

Sorry, Marv, I buried it.....

on Apr 15th, 2009, 2:20pm, Marvin wrote:



Hello Ruud,

Have patients, the motley crew here can be a rowdy bunch.

Can you tell me about how long you took to take the photos (the time between the first photo and the last)?

Do you recall your movements when you took the photos (did you stay in one place or move around a lot)?

I have found a second object in the photos (when I used edge detection), do you recall seeing any other objects?

Thanks for your help.

Marvin


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 15th, 2009, 2:30pm

Ruud has been kind enough to send the photos to me.

Here is an enlargement and enhancement of the object:

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The camera used is a Nikon D50.

This photo Exif is marked as being taken on:

2007:09:08 18:21:18


The original photo:

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Click on image to see the original.


Snoop says:

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More to follow as I have time.

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 15th, 2009, 2:41pm

Movement study:


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Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 15th, 2009, 3:03pm

Hi Ruud,

In your original message when you say you didn’t see the object moving away do you have any idea of the time which elapsed between the last time you could see it until the time you noticed it was no longer visible?

Cheers.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 15th, 2009, 3:08pm

Hello Marvin.

Photo's have been taken in about 5 to 7 minutes, shortly after each other.
I did not move around it was from the same spot, used the back of my chair for stability.
We did not see anything else when I took the pictures.
I focused on that mysterious object.

Regards Ruud
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 15th, 2009, 3:14pm

Hello Marvin,

We think it stayed there for 15 to 30 minutes.
We did not see it coming and we did not see it leaving.

Regards Ruud
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 15th, 2009, 3:22pm

Hello DrDil,

Hmm we were curious, I think it had to be a matter of minutes. 2, 3 at the most.
We did'nt catch any fish anymore.

Regards
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by JennaNV on Apr 15th, 2009, 3:23pm


My observations

I'm not getting technical on the photo analysis. The poster claims that when he took the picture, he didn't have a clue what the object was, because to the naked eye it was only a 'speck'. He claims he took the photo so he could see it on his computer later. However, The D50 is a full-on DSLR camera with a viewfinder, and he would have to see thru the viewfinder what will come out on the photo, so when he took the picture he would definitely be able to see, as we can even without zooming in, the objects drone-like shape. Also he would have been able to zoom in on the photo after it was taken, right on the LCD display of the camera. So this makes me suspicious.

Also, since the D50 is a DSLR, it has interchangeable lenses. I would like to know what lens was used, and at what zoom.

Also, I would like to know what the tower structure is at the lower right of the photo. It appears to be some sort of antenna, or microwave tower.

I would like to ask the poster, as well, why he did not take or submit a more wide-angle photo, showing landmarks on the ground, so more perspective could be gained.

I submit that it is very possible that this 'drone' object might be some sort of kite as it looks like there is not much to it when zooming in. Kite flying is very popular along coastal areas, and this area of Holland is a beach area.


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 15th, 2009, 3:34pm

on Apr 15th, 2009, 3:23pm, JennaNV wrote:
<snip>

Also, I would like to know what the tower structure is at the lower right of the photo. It appears to be some sort of antenna, or microwave tower.

I would like to ask the poster, as well, why he did not take or submit a more wide-angle photo, showing landmarks on the ground, so more perspective could be gained.

I submit that it is very possible that this 'drone' object might be some sort of kite as it looks like there is not much to it when zooming in. Kite flying is very popular along coastal areas, and this area of Holland is a beach area.


on Apr 13th, 2009, 08:17am, Quincy wrote:
Since you only saw a black dot, 800 feet away, the object must have been small. On looking at the foto at high zoom, and playing with contrast thats what I got, it looks like a kite or balloon. This is no reflection on you what soever. Lots of people fly kites balloons at beach. Steady wind.
What you saw is what you saw.
High zoom can do that ! give that appearance or illusion.
It just happened to look like a bee, so I make a little fun.

getting serious though, Thank you for posting it. But
If you could:
!. post the other 11 pictures, without cropping and untouched so we can get the exit off it that would be fantastic.
2.Describe the movement of thing while you observed it for 30 minutes.
3. Did you have any other witneses or ask someone what t might be.?
4.Is there any reason why you waited 2 years to post something that unusual, if you thought it was unusual?
have you reported any where else in your country at the time. Weren't you excited you caught something special?
5.Where is the air raid siren tower located, that is in corner.
6.Were other people fishing with you at the beach pier or at a lake.
are ther lots of those air raid /sirens poles?
User Image Photo from Katterfelto

Thanks for coming too..it will help immensely to identify or , otherwise it will be just another odd but inconclusive sighting. The more info the better.!
I am so happy you came, lot of people just drop pictures and go..Most of us have seen things too but no pictures, just our words. So this is a real blessing. Please continue!

You have our respect!!


Regards
Quincy

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 15th, 2009, 3:39pm

on Apr 15th, 2009, 3:22pm, Ruud wrote:
Hello DrDil,

Hmm we were curious, I think it had to be a matter of minutes. 2, 3 at the most.
We did'nt catch any fish anymore.

Regards

Hi again Ruud and thanks for the swift response. (Shame about the fish!! grin)

Cheers.


Here's a couple of Ruud's earlier posts just so that everyone is on the same page:

on Apr 13th, 2009, 11:52am, Ruud wrote:
Hi all,

Thanks for the reply. For a moment I thought just let it go.
I will give you more information as far as possible.
It was just a strange object hanging in the sky and I could not see what it is. It could be anything that is why I contacted Ufo casebook.
We saw a black spot wich did not move.
The distance to the sirene was about 1 km.
I took the sirene also in the photo to compare.
I became curious because It had to be something big hanging in the sky. ( distance) So I got my camera wich was in the caravan. With my 300 mm lens I zoomed in on it and snapped some photo's, so I could enlarge the pics on the computer.
It was not even near the beach the object was above a small village The beach was west, this was east.
We were fishing in a canal behind the camping.
There is no reason to wait two years, it just happened.
I spoke to a friend and he said to post it on a site, so I did. However I believe it was not the right choice to post it on that particular site. That was nearly a year ago.
I am also what sceptisch, (never seen a UFO, hope to see one once). So I am interested in the unexplained. Until now no one could tell me, what the object on the pics is.
I was not very excited about the pics, could have been anything may be there is a simple explanation.
The siren is standing near the road and at the edge of the village. It is for certain an other siren as the pic you posted (katerfelto).
The sirens are an alarm system here in Holland. You have to hear a siren where ever you are so they are standing as far as possible from each other. For example I believe in a place like Petten there are maybe two.
There is a nuclear reactor in Petten too.
I was fishing with my wife and she have seen it to. AS a matter of fact she made me take the pictures.
We went on fishing and once a while I looked up to see if it still was there. I did not see it vanished I looked up and it was gone (must be rather fast because I looked often).
If it was I kite, it was a very big one and a good one to because there was no wind, also he was fast (did not see him coming down. Also the height is what bothers me. The siren in front is about 1 km from where we were standing. That thing is maybe 2 km from where we were standing.
Can it be some kind of a beacon?
Where or how can I post the other pictures?


on Apr 15th, 2009, 10:54am, Ruud wrote:
Hi all,

So many reactions.
I have to react also.
First of all;
I don't like that people call me a liar and don't get my lovelife involved. Then it becomes personal.
You can think what ever you want of the pics and if it is possible I can answer questions.
I can imagine that people are getting tired to look at an hoax. Me to, I hate Hoax, Spam and virusses to.
I just asked the webmaster if he knew what the object on the photo was. I never spoke about a drone, also it is not my intention to fake a photo, I am 49 years old, Have been married for 27 years (speaking about my lovelife and possible fiancy at the sunset)and I simply don't have time to create or fake photo's.
If you say it is an balloon. It is fine with me. If you say it is a wheater balloon, it is fine with me. If you say it is a kite fine. I don't get any profit of these pics. All I need to know is maybe somebody recognize this object. I can't tell you what it is.
You call it a drone, fine with me.
I can tell you we were camping at camping de Watersnip near Petten. Went fishing in the afternoon I still remember that because my parents also were at the camping and they made dinner. Around the camping there is a small canal. I just flip through some bushes and I am near that water. It is not to the direction of the beach. It is in the opposite direction. May be you can find a siren in that direction (on google earth).
It is very good possible that the time of the camera was not correct. I made the pics defenitly in the afternoon that is for sure. The date is important for me, the time on the camera is for me not so interesting may be it was summertime or something like that. You have to believe me for that, it was between 1 o'clock and 5 o'clock. And I guessed it was round 1.30. That is I believe also what I wrote in my mail. Next time I see an object I will first set the time correct and then I will take pictures.
What about the wind. There was where we were fishing no wind. I can say that because I hate fishing in the wind. Small waves are irritating, possible that there was little bit wind at the open field. But it can't have been very much. We ate outside so it wasn't cold either.
Neveleeleven, I looked through my camera using my chair to create a steady image. At such a distand even the smallest movement makes rare image. That is why I took several shots. Hoping there was something I could see.
If there are any questions I will be glad to answer them.
Just don't get personal. It is now almost 6 o'clock and dinner is ready smiley.

Regards Ruud





Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by JennaNV on Apr 15th, 2009, 3:53pm


Sorry, my bad, I didn't see that post.

Anyway. if that is the original picture, I have some issues with it. First of all, there is no way you can crop that and come out with the series of pictures that were originally submitted.

Second, that is not the same so-called air raid siren. The one in the original picture has a smaller TV antenna looking protrusion on the side of it below the 3 discs, and does not have the thinner extension on the top of it.

So, I'm really confused about that. Can someone enlighten me?





Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 15th, 2009, 3:57pm

on Apr 15th, 2009, 3:53pm, JennaNV wrote:
Second, that is not the same so-called air raid siren. The one in the original picture has a smaller TV antenna looking protrusion on the side of it below the 3 discs, and does not have the thinner extension on the top of it.

So, I'm really confused about that. Can someone enlighten me?

on Apr 15th, 2009, 10:54am, Ruud wrote:
The siren is standing near the road and at the edge of the village. It is for certain an other siren as the pic you posted (katerfelto).
The sirens are an alarm system here in Holland. You have to hear a siren where ever you are so they are standing as far as possible from each other. For example I believe in a place like Petten there are maybe two.


Edit to add: I quoted the earlier post that you questioned as you asked about the pole. I wasn’t suggesting they were the same pole, merely trying to answer your question of:

Also, I would like to know what the tower structure is at the lower right of the photo. It appears to be some sort of antenna, or microwave tower.”

Cheers.
smiley
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 15th, 2009, 4:12pm

Hi Jennthat second Antenna is from a find from Ketterfelto, Its's seperate. Not same as Ruuds.. It was brung up to ask how common they are. In the Petten area there are supposedly two. Then this one to the east of Petten Holland.

Our analysis so far shows inconsistencey in the lighting for time of day on camera, 6pm. or Sunstet.Total 12 shot shooting time was 616 to 621 or 5 minutes.
He acknowledges the camera time could be wrong and even day. Bummer. But that happens a lot in with digital cameras. It was over a year ago he said, so no certainty it occurred even near the time of the california drones except it was sometime in summer between 1 and 5pm. He said. last post.
That being said the exif data is wortheless for date Other aspects I leave to the more technically inclined here. as Nev stated some undefined functions are present where there shouldn't be. Deception is assumed if he had maintained the dates and time, were correct, because of DoD/Naval chart showing sunrise set set, the sample of lights of that day for sunset
,and marine wind current speed charts as compared to what was stated.

All that can be examined then is the picture itself and what its supposed to be, which may be a perfectly plausible item such as kite. Petten has an internationally recognized wind/kite area right there. whether it has it been tampered with is the other part of course. But we assume he is acting in good . Errors or mistakes of time are plausible, and not necessarily fatal.
Its critical though to keep the dialogue going, it may help jog his memory better.

Regards.



Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by neveleeleven on Apr 15th, 2009, 4:19pm

Hey Ruud,

Do you have any other pictures from your camera that were taken that day, that we can see? It doesn't have to be with a "ufo" in them, just any picture from the same camera will be fine.

Also, is there any way you can take a picture of your camera and send it to us? The easiest way would be to use a mirror. I would really like to see a picture of it.

Also, is the 300mm lens an aftermarket lens? Or is it built onto the camera? I'm pretty sure it is aftermarket, if it is, I have a few other question to ask you.

Thanks for your cooperation Ruud.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by neveleeleven on Apr 15th, 2009, 4:44pm

Just for reference,

The EXIF says "ExposureProgram : Unknown (0)", which is natural. I found another image that turned out the same.

However, I am curious to know why the EXIF says "FocalLength : 300.00(mm)" and "FocalLength(35mm) : 450(mm)".

If it was an aftermarket 300mm lens, I don't see why it shows on the EXIF data. Unless he did change some settings on the camera, or edited the EXIF data.

The thing about EXIF data, is that it is all stored in the image, and if you knew how it all worked you could easily edit the EXIF with a simple text editor. Or you could use an EXIF editor if you are script kiddie.

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by neveleeleven on Apr 15th, 2009, 4:57pm

Ok, found some more NIKON D50's with 300mm.

http://ajbrun.blogspot.com/2005/08/nikon-d50-70-300mm-g-lens.html

The "FocalLength : 300.00(mm)" and "FocalLength(35mm) : 450(mm)" is normal. I guess it is either automatic, or manually set.

The only other inconsistency with the EXIF data that I found is the "CompressedBitsPerPixel : 2/1 (bit/pixel)".

All of the real NIKON D50's images I found have "CompressedBitsPerPixel : 4/1 (bit/pixel)".


-edit add-

The only kites that I think are similar are called "rotating kites", or "rotating box kites", or just "box kite". They are the only ones that appear to have cylinders, or rings, and look somewhat similar to the images.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=1W1GGLL_en&um=1&sa=1&q=rotating+kite&btnG=Search+Images&aq=f&oq=

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=1W1GGLL_en&um=1&sa=1&q=rotating+box+kite&aq=f&oq=

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=1W1GGLL_en&um=1&sa=1&q=box+kite&btnG=Search+Images&aq=f&oq=

O.M.G. UFO!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPvdcqD1aZE&feature=related

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by neveleeleven on Apr 15th, 2009, 5:26pm

Another question for Ruud...

It's obvious you thought about it being a kite. Did you even try to look at the ground to figure out if someone was standing under the object, as if they were holding a string?

Did you notice anyone under the object?

Thanks for your reply in advance. grin

..b.t.w. I'm starting to think it is a "Waldof Box Kite"...

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=1W1GGLL_en&q=waldof%20box%20kite&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

11 11
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by B J Booth on Apr 15th, 2009, 6:40pm

I will add some comments here that I think need to be said.

When I first was contacted by Ruud, he made no claims whatsover, the terms UFO or drone were never used. He and I never discussed nor even mentioned either of the two. I never asked him about the drones. It was I who first used the phrase, "drone-like " simply because that was the first thing that came to mind. What should I have called it?

Ruud originally sent me one photograph, told me about how the took the pictures, and simply asked me if I knew what it was. He did not even mention to me, nor ask me to post the photograph. I don't know if he even expected that it would be put on the Casebook.

After I took a good look at the photo, I thought it was interesting, and asked him if he would send me some more, and he responded by sending two more.

The only think he asked me was "Do you have any idea what that thing might be?" I told him I did not, but that we would work on finding out.

I knew as soon as the photos were posted on the Casebook, that I would get swamped with email, and I did. About 75%, (an estimate), has run positive.

I do not know what it is, and I have never said what it is, and neither has Ruud. I am sure that if he knew he was going to be run through the mud, he would probably just kept them to himself. I was reluctant myself, but felt they should be posted for all to see.

It is ashamed that the Petten photos are grouped with the drones of 2007. They, as far as I know, have no relation to them, but there is a physical resemblance.

Personally, I can say that I believe that Ruud's photographs are real photographs. Frankly, I don't give a damn what anyone else says. If I did, I would have quit this business years ago.

I receive about 50 photographs a week to look at, and I can pretty much tell a hoax when I see one, but when I do, I don't run down the person who sent the photo. I just don't post it, but sometimes, I am not sure what a specific object might be.

If I only post what "I" think are real, then I am the only person who will ever see certain photos.

I stand behind Ruud, and I'm not looking to discredit him. He came to me in good faith, and things just got out of hand. I hope this doesn't turn him completely away from the study of UFOs.

Hang in there Ruud...


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 15th, 2009, 6:50pm

Hello Neveleeleven,

You have asked interesting questions.
I will see if I can answer them.
It was impossible to see if there was anybody who was holding a string. The distance was way to far.
I did take some pictures the same day with my camera. It was with another lens. However last year we went to Malasya and I used my 300 mm lens more often. I can send you some pics. It is a 100/300m.m sigma lens with autofocus. Perhaps you can find some simularities what can declare your questions about the use of my camera.
However the woldoff kite as shown could be an option.
Though it has to be a large kite.

Regards Ruud
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 15th, 2009, 6:54pm

Thanks BJ Booth, I needed that one.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by jugement on Apr 15th, 2009, 7:27pm

whats up ruud; i two think you are sincere about wanting to find out what it is you saw, i think i was one of the first ones to identify your photo with the drones. i have seen many ufo,s the last one was the one photograph during the last shuttle lunch. finally you know what amazes me so much about the drones i had a dream about them or it before i ever saw it on ufo casebook.welcome if your picture turn out not to be the real thing don't worry,you know as much as i have told here or wrote about my experiences i cant prove not a darn one yet my word is my bond. cool grin cool
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 16th, 2009, 03:37am

http://www.blueskylark.org/zoo/single/cell/index.html
User Image
http://www.aeolian.co.uk/kites/kites02/basingstoke.html
http://www.veronica.tug.com/
http://www.designkites.com/stack/kalender.php list of Holland festivals with pix, Verslagen, cervia, hague, etc..
hundreds of incredible designs

I noted in the slide there was never a rotation, and appendages stayed fixed. I am inclined to kite, just that the design to mimic bee struck me. If anything has bee true to a drone bee its this one imo. I and several colleagues were very worriend Holland was going to be attacked! cheesy joking here okay?

Can you remember if you were facing north? or south?
The wind blows west to east, or south east there then it makes sense it fits kite. Looks like you were slighly north of it, and the thing was as you said east of Pellen.

I just woke up, paid taxes late here, I missed deadline, and they were high as a kite! (pun intended)
Not a good day for me.

The benefit Ruud, even if not a flying spaceship is this.

You have done us a great service because, we never knew how many types of flying kites, and even balloons existed out there that mimic the very ufo shapes often reported at those and greater distances.
Its important we get those images in our head, if only to rule them out later, when all the data is complete.
Thats what makes your participation and observations, as to where standing, distance , time of day, etc as well as camera info so critical.
So we are very impressed with you, and sincerely like the help your are giving here.
we will solve this together, my friend, and it will help manypeople in the future. If you do see some actual kites that are unusual and are close up, please send those in so we can have an inventory for comparison with future reports too.
Kudos

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 16th, 2009, 07:39am

Looking at the EXIF data, here is the time line:

DSC_0731.jpg 2007:09:08 18:16:48.90
DSC_0732.jpg 2007:09:08 18:17:04.90
DSC_0733.jpg 2007:09:08 18:17:08.90
DSC_0734.jpg 2007:09:08 18:17:12.80
DSC_0735.jpg 2007:09:08 18:20:12.90
DSC_0736.jpg 2007:09:08 18:20:51.00
DSC_0737.jpg 2007:09:08 18:20:55.70
DSC_0738.jpg 2007:09:08 18:21:06.40
DSC_0739.jpg 2007:09:08 18:21:10.80
DSC_0740.jpg 2007:09:08 18:21:18.70
DSC_0741.jpg 2007:09:08 18:21:19.40
DSC_0742.jpg 2007:09:08 18:21:19.80
DSC_0743.jpg 2007:09:08 18:21:39.30

About 4 minutes and 51 seconds from start to finish.

The movement of the object is similar to a kite and it moves around in a very limited area of the photos like a kite.

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The general shape of the object in very much like the Waldorf kite that 1111 and Quincy mentions.



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There are variations on the kite.


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Ruud, a kite would be my choice as to what you saw.


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 16th, 2009, 12:05pm

Ruud,

Is the camp watersnip at this address?
Show original
A
Recreatiepark de Watersnip‎ - more info »
Pettemerweg 4, 1755 KK petten (), Netherlands‎ - 0226 381432‎
2 reviews - Write a review
"Recreatiepark de Watersnip is een compleet park waar van alles te beleven is zowel op het park als in onze veelzijdige omgeving. ..."Error translating footzy.nlfootzy.nl
B
De Watersnip Bungalows BV‎ - more info »
Pettemerweg 4, 1755 KK Petten, Netherlands‎ - 0226 381432‎
Write a review
"Recreatiepark De Watersnip : informatie, agendas, shows, programma, nieuws : Pettemerweg 4, 1755 KK Petten : theAgenda.nl ..."Error translating theagenda.nltheagenda.nl
C
Recr.park De Watersnip‎ - more info »

If not, what is an intersecting streets So I can get better fix on pole.
Thanks many!
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 16th, 2009, 1:26pm

Hello Quincy.

The exact location where we were fishing is
52*45'35.67"N
4*40'05.70 E

That is on google earth.
The water is green, not blue, I think because of the water plants.
You can see I went through the bushes and could go fishing.

Regards Ruud

The object I guess is somewhere above at 52*45'13.97"N and
4*40'53.87"E .
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 16th, 2009, 1:51pm

ahh ok great, I had gotten this in meantime..will redo.
Gracias!
I knew Netherlands was pretty, but good googly D, I want to go there! Are you sure you are not touris operator? ehh..kidding!!
Regards


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Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 16th, 2009, 2:50pm

I was close then, good. I see bushes you said you and your wife went through. cheesy okay some where 1 km to west /south west should be pole, then km more or less the spot object sighted. I will look around smiley,

Burgerviotbrug, that must the village you mentioned.
Isn't that where a UFO was reported before? that lifted a large tractor trailer, with its tractor beam and set it on top of a small bridge almost making it collapse. I looked at the extraction operation, and everyone was very calm. The driver did look a little shaken though.
But...I'm not convinced,
Personally I think he made the story up to the police, so his boss would not fire him for driving drunk, or it could be a clever cover story for recovery of an alien artifact in the truck. You will note The appearance of a helicopter removing( lets be conservative, and just say )"something", and an "unmarked" white vehicle in the background . Highly unusual I would think for just a simple truck stuck, supposedly carrying "lettuce" to market. smiley
Well... think its about time, we had a "little talk" with the burgemeester, don't you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYxA2yGPFBI
Okay, Now I am serious.. cheesy
Just using very rough ratios of pixels to feet to distance , a 6ft kite at 10 ft might show up as 220 pixels using my screen capture measure. at 125 ft 28 pixels, and at 2km =11289ft 11.4 pixels well within rage of , not particularly huge, but medium to large l kite. I get 9 pixels on your foto without zooming. so 6-8 ft, as my calculations got 11.4 ,is not out of the question..Of course its alll perspective, and it could have appeared huge to you. You had put it aside, no big deal, and most likely tried to recall what happened, ..time went by..
you then went by what the camera said. perfectly normal and expected, and honest. And even the huge, is not abmormal..recollection is like that.
Absolutely no intent to deceive. The measurements, disagree a bit, it all rough, but in the ballpark for a medium to large size kite. These things I am sure everyone has seen now can be huge, especially with team competions for design, some even stackable to nth degree. But its only the recollection after the fact, that tends to do these things..absolutely normal.
Without your help and data, we couldnt say too much, that it would be a big question mark with lots of little ones around it.
The only thing here , it was not huge, just medium to big.
IMO, You're good to go.
You are a darn good witness!!
Regards to You and Yours.
If you ever get around to it because its almost impossible to see on google earth, like the windmills I know are ther but can't see them on that canal, just one, and there are a few! The left yellow pin is you and the other on the right is the windmill I found.
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Would you take a full body snapshot of the siren between you and that Burgervoitbrug canal? Thanx, or spot it in the map for me.
Much obliged.
I used Marvins man/kite pic as a starting point, and ketterfeltos, assuming 125ft, and Ruuds as control, and of course his data of 2km (converted to ft) sighting. I didn't need the bloomin pole or even vanishing points, or doppler radar. grin
I could be 100 percent wrong! , I don't think so.
Thanx for the opportunity to learn about a beautiful country and great people.
PS> No wonder you fish there..this was right where you were at. I just use a cane pole when I go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ijZwTgqB04
Greetz!

cool
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 17th, 2009, 05:42am

Hello Quincy,

Nice work, I searched also for the air raid siren. Could not find it on google earth to
When I have the oppertunity I will make a snapshot of the air raid siren.
I will come back to it, I promise.
I think we will go in september to Petten for the weekend. (like every year).
I would like to say, the measurements you have taken are very impressive. Don't forget the height and the disctance are a guess. Off course we don't know the exact height and distance.
Also and that is (for me) very important.
I know for certain that when somebody post something on a forum like this he'd better do his homework well.
When someone post fake pics or hoaxes it will be discoverd!
You even found a video of somebody who was fishing at the same spot. (catching a big one, it is not me )
For myself, I know I took pictures of something I could not explain. We were curious what it could be, that is why I posted it. I never expected so many respons. (If I knew I got so many reactions I would think twice to post it).
Personaly I didn't made a link to a drone. I thougt drones were much bigger and much more suffisticated.
More alien so to speak. (fake or not)
I never heard about woldof kites, now I know there is a variaty of kites in al kind of shapes (impressive).
I have no benefit what so ever of posting those pics, (only that my English is updated).
I like to watch the sky, especially at night.
I don't believe in god, I have seen lots of meteorites, sattelites speeding through the space. I have seen UFO balloons. (Thai balloons). I have seen Skylab and the ISS.
I have also seen the Hayley comet (with the tail).
I am just a sober guy from Holland wich could not explain something I took pictures of.
I'dd like to thank everbody on this forum for thinking and examine the pics.
Also everybody can make his own conclusions.
I became a member of this forum and I will visit it more often and if necessary, I will make my comments.

Regards Ruud





Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 17th, 2009, 06:44am

Hi Ruud and welcome! smiley

It's refreshing to have a witness (and inquirer) of a strange sighting actually cooperate and aid in solving it. If you browse around this whole drone business you'll read the type of things people (Quincy, Dr,Dil, Marvin, 11, some retired Admiral! and a whole bunch more) have had to deal with.

Thanks

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 17th, 2009, 10:58am

on Apr 17th, 2009, 05:42am, Ruud wrote:
Hello Quincy,

Nice work, I searched also for the air raid siren. Could not find it on google earth to
When I have the oppertunity I will make a snapshot of the air raid siren.
I will come back to it, I promise.
I think we will go in september to Petten for the weekend. (like every year).
I would like to say, the measurements you have taken are very impressive. Don't forget the height and the disctance are a guess. Off course we don't know the exact height and distance.
Also and that is (for me) very important.
I know for certain that when somebody post something on a forum like this he'd better do his homework well.
When someone post fake pics or hoaxes it will be discoverd!
You even found a video of somebody who was fishing at the same spot. (catching a big one, it is not me )
For myself, I know I took pictures of something I could not explain. We were curious what it could be, that is why I posted it. I never expected so many respons. (If I knew I got so many reactions I would think twice to post it).
Personaly I didn't made a link to a drone. I thougt drones were much bigger and much more suffisticated.
More alien so to speak. (fake or not)
I never heard about woldof kites, now I know there is a variaty of kites in al kind of shapes (impressive).
I have no benefit what so ever of posting those pics, (only that my English is updated).
I like to watch the sky, especially at night.
I don't believe in god, I have seen lots of meteorites, sattelites speeding through the space. I have seen UFO balloons. (Thai balloons). I have seen Skylab and the ISS.
I have also seen the Hayley comet (with the tail).
I am just a sober guy from Holland wich could not explain something I took pictures of.
I'dd like to thank everbody on this forum for thinking and examine the pics.
Also everybody can make his own conclusions.
I became a member of this forum and I will visit it more often and if necessary, I will make my comments.

Regards Ruud





That was beautifully written Ruud. It is interesting we both found out things we never knew, that were right out there within reach! Figuratively speaking, we both looked at something strange, hoping it was perhaps an alien ship, and we followed it, and it indeed led us to an entire new world around us.! So, much like the ants I wrote about in another thread, we too go about our business and our little wars,, never seeing the giants walk right by them, never entering their consciousness. Sensing "something", but never really "grasping".There are greater things I am sure, that may never enter ours, but perhaps, like here with us happened, may happen then.

PS That boy caught a big one didn't he?
This is true, Reminded me of an old man in I saw walking home with a bucket in his hand, and he stopped to show his little grandson who had been with him, , what was inside. The boy was so in awe . The old man just looked and smiled.
I was looking down from an apartment, but could not see what was inside. I imagine a fish or turtle. then they kept walking home. Maybe it was the little boys first fish.
For a moment I was the old man, and the little boy at the same time.


Hope you come back soon, but ..let time take its time! haha

Quincy
smiley
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 17th, 2009, 12:42pm

Thanks, Ruud! As Katterfelto said, it's a pleasant surprise to have a real witness who is cooperative and intelligent in dealing with us crusty old veterans. I would not have guessed "kite" when I saw your pictures, but these talented analysts have convinced me. I'm glad you joined the forum, and I appreciate your staying with us.

Good luck with the fishing!
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by elevenaugust on Apr 17th, 2009, 1:51pm

My little contribution to this.

Here are some useful infos about the wind in the area (I took the closest weather station, "Den Helder"; which is up to 14Mi NNE from Petten.)

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Now the question is 'Is a kite can fly under a 16/26 Km/h wind speed, with max gusts at 40Km/h?

Seems like it's possible, except for the "ultralights" kites:

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Source

And about Ruud's altitude estimation, here's some infos from this Kite blog:

- Vlieger niet boven de wettelijk toegestane hoogte (100m)
- Vlieger niet in de buurt van hoogspannings masten (min. afstand 500 m (574.05 yards)
- Vlieger niet in de buurt van vliegvelden (min. afstand 6 km (3.73 miles)
- Vlieger niet in de buurt van spoor- en snelwegen (min. afstand 500 m (574.05 yards)
- Vlieger niet in drukke gebieden.
- Probeer niet te Liften of te Jumpen; althans..begin klein, je kan dodelijk verongelukken.
- Vlieger niet met vliegers groter dan 5 m2 ( 5.47 square yd) in een wind sterker dan 5 Beaufort; dit is vragen om moeilijkheden.
-Vlieger niet met een trapeze; doe dit alleen als je de vlieger helemaal onder de knie hebt maar kijk dan toch nog uit (gebruikt liever geen, besef dat je aan de vlieger vast zit).

De volgende punten maken het vliegeren voor iedereen een stuk aangenamer:

- Er zijn nog meer piloten; geef elkaar ruimte (vooral een-lijnens vliegers; zij kunnen geen kant op).
- Gebruik geen Kevlar lijnen (het snijdt door andere lijnen en kan lelijke wonden veroorzaken).
- Veroorzaak geen geluidsovelast.
- Ga uit de weg voor een buggy; hij kan moeilijker stoppen.
- Vlieg met lijen korter dan 45 m (49.23 yd); De vlieger is hierdoor beter te besturen!
- Gebruik op drukke plekken plaatsen stokloze modellen; geeft minder ongelukken."


Google translation:
[...]
- Do not kite above the legal height (100m)
- Kite in the neighborhood of high masts (min. distance 500 meters (574.05 yards)
- Do not kite near the airport (min. distance 6 km (3.73 miles))
- Do not kite in the near rail and highways (min. distance 500 m (574.05 yards)
- Do not kite in busy areas.
- Kite flyers not greater than 5 m2 (5.47 yd square) in a stronger wind than 5 Beaufort, which is asking for trouble.

The following points make the kite for everyone a lot more pleasant:

- Fly with strings shorter than 45 m (49.23 yd), the kite is better to drive!

Hope it will help.

Cheers
11
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 17th, 2009, 1:54pm

on Apr 17th, 2009, 05:42am, Ruud wrote:
For myself, I know I took pictures of something I could not explain. We were curious what it could be, that is why I posted it. I never expected so many respons. (If I knew I got so many reactions I would think twice to post it).
Personaly I didn't made a link to a drone. I thougt drones were much bigger and much more suffisticated.
More alien so to speak. (fake or not)
I never heard about woldof kites, now I know there is a variaty of kites in al kind of shapes (impressive).
I have no benefit what so ever of posting those pics, (only that my English is updated).
I like to watch the sky, especially at night.
I don't believe in god, I have seen lots of meteorites, sattelites speeding through the space. I have seen UFO balloons. (Thai balloons). I have seen Skylab and the ISS.
I have also seen the Hayley comet (with the tail).
I am just a sober guy from Holland wich could not explain something I took pictures of.
I'dd like to thank everbody on this forum for thinking and examine the pics.
Also everybody can make his own conclusions.
I became a member of this forum and I will visit it more often and if necessary, I will make my comments.

Regards Ruud






Greetings Ruud,

Let me first say that I congratulate you for your personal courage to share your sighting. Personally, it does not matter what the object turns out to be (an alien craft or a kite), it takes courage to post your sighting and to allow it to be scrutinized.

Some of the folks on this forum (and on others) have experienced a number of hoaxers in the past and have lost “heart” in the subject… so please let me apologize for anyone who may have received you experience in less than a trusting way. For me, I prefer to examine the evidence and to let that evidence guide me to the truth.

I hope you have a good experience here at the UFO Casebook (it is a wonderful forum), keep posting and my personal thanks to you for sharing this opportunity to research your sighting… and keep your eyes to the skies.

Best regards,

Marvin


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by elevenaugust on Apr 17th, 2009, 4:20pm

Here are the wind datas for the whole afternoon, including Ruud's estimation of the exact hour (1:30PM)

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Wind speed


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Wind gusts


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Wind direction


And LMH Rudd's interview report here

BTW, very interesting interview, Rudd!

I also heard the radioshow you made with JeeBee and paps. I was scheduled in it but, unfortunately, due to the language barrier (the show was in Dutch) I haven't done it... undecided
However, maybe a transcript will be made.

Cheers
11
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 17th, 2009, 4:42pm

Ha Ha Ha HaHaHa
What a Shmuck She is!!!!
'Campaign of Misinfo? that exposed a HoaX You Jerks!HahaHaha
We have the original StaTements, Don't You Get It?

This is so funny, She Couldn't wait! She's pushin Kites as Drones using CHAD the Known Liar!
This Bimbo needs to retire!!!
First with Scoop Gets to Step on the PooP!!
grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin


Thanx BJ, you did us AND Ufology a BIG Favor!!!
Just what kind of Journalist she is....
I'm adding this one to my list of Conference Questions since she chose to make the connection...UNTIL NOW...hahahahaha
God Help me..My ribs are hurting!
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 17th, 2009, 5:02pm

We are living on the planet Bizarro! It's hopeless. sad

I feel bad for Ruud having his name published like that. I'd demand a retraction and more.

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by walter on Apr 17th, 2009, 5:05pm

on Apr 17th, 2009, 1:54pm, Marvin wrote:
Some of the folks on this forum (and on others) have experienced a number of hoaxers in the past and have lost “heart” in the subject…





I suppose my cruddy "drones" didn't help, eh? Sorry. They were certainly silly looking, weren't they? It's unfortunate that this fellows sighting was lumped together with the "drones", but then people see what they want.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 17th, 2009, 5:35pm

Thanks for your contributions11A, they're appreciated. smiley

on Apr 17th, 2009, 4:20pm, elevenaugust wrote:
BTW, very interesting interview, Rudd!


Hi Ruud, I noticed you were quoted as saying:

Quote:
When I posted on the UFOcasebook, there were many reactions. There are many people who are declaring me a liar. And that was frustrating.

I’m sorry you feel that way Ruud but I feel it pertinent to point out that there were many more people who didn’t and were merely trying to help you, in fact if memory serves me correctly there was only one, ahh, nevermind.......

Take care. smiley

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 17th, 2009, 5:37pm

on Apr 17th, 2009, 5:05pm, walter wrote:
I suppose my cruddy "drones" didn't help, eh? Sorry. They were certainly silly looking, weren't they? It's unfortunate that this fellows sighting was lumped together with the "drones", but then people see what they want.

To be fair Walter, I think only a couple of people accepted those as real, although the one above water had a certain 'je ne sais quoi'. wink

Cheers. grin
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 17th, 2009, 5:45pm

I'm sorry Ruud got used like that too, with his real name. I am sure it will be all right..
but..Discretion is the better part of valor. I warned him and Jan to wait a little. Just a little, before putting him on radio. I think he saw too late.
Still, he is welcome here anytime, and I consider it a learning experience and lesson for future witnesses,
as well as us.

wow, walter is here? those water drones did have a certain attraction, maybe people associated them with like Jesus walking on water or something..who knows..people do believe what they want to believe,
sex sells, and so do lies and distortions...unfortunately.

Say, to calm things down, me specifically, a good laugh is always in order, Lord I have been laughing.
I found a neat Dutch UFO Video, because I became very interested in the culture, we all can enjoy, as long as we maintain our perspectives and see what makes us such an interesting species..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0HABEu37ZI










Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 17th, 2009, 6:21pm

Oh dear Lord! It's worse than I thought. I'm afraid to look at Strieber's site. Next thing you know, LMH will join forces with the Exopolitics circus, and real sightings will be completely irrelevant.

If I were just now getting started paying serious attention to the UFO phenomenon, instead of twenty-some years ago, I would probably write the whole field off as a bunch of dipsticks. I swear, for every real scientist or even just sensible person involved in the subject, there are fifty flakes, weirdos, and good people with no critical thinking ability whatsoever.

One thing we know now, beyond any question, is just how much research Howe does before interviewing witnesses and promoting whatever story sounds good to her. There was more science done on Ruud's photos in this thread by accident than took place at Earthfiles. Really, I am at a loss for words...
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 17th, 2009, 6:45pm

Double, You hit it on the nail. I posted an email where the peers, like David Sereeta, the antigravity guy, and others, tell her the drones are bogus, back in June 2007. The Exo people were on that list.
They are so desperate for substance, including exo, they don't care if it discredits, or kills their careers, and us, in the long run.

I'm Creating a thread with the questions for folx to ask her and the other members of the "Big Three"..
Since she chose to connect this, well so can we to the questions.


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 17th, 2009, 6:53pm

on Apr 17th, 2009, 6:45pm, Quincy wrote:
I'm Creating a thread with the questions for folx to ask her and the other members of the "Big Three"..

The "Big Three"? Now that's funny!
I predict that any questions are ignored or answered like a slick politician.

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 17th, 2009, 7:25pm

Done.

Here
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=drone&action=display&num=1240012212
Oh yeah, thats what Joe Schumacher her, long gone, expert witness, without a traceable background, called who he worked for. And ironically, he was telling the truth, only it wasn't IBM, HP, or GM, it was,imo, them!

We may not get answers from her, or the other Big 2, but a set of archived 'Unanswered"questions, and backtracking to sites like this, Paracast, Ats, OM, Ufo-Blof, Dronehoax.com, etc., will help educate newcomers to the subject quickly. They can take it from there. Their silence disingenue will provide the best tie breaker, for the undecided.

I wonder why HPO and NickCage didn't participate in the ' JeeBee Show". I wonder if Jeebee knew all the right questions not to ask, like about the kites.
Thats one transcript I want to see.



Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 18th, 2009, 02:02am

I spent some time on the Sureline Beejee and Paps site..and whaT I got was avid support for the "Drones" from.
you guessed it..BeeJee and Paps ..hhahahahaha
http://www.grenswetenschap.nl/permalink.asp?grens=2930&p=1#quote

ERWIN: (must be Paps)What also claims everyone ....... There is no univocal draw conclusion on this matter. - Halo 3 item is not it. - Alien craft did not prove are it also. But argument rattles could you tended be something extraterrestrial wants see because… The witnesses provide beautiful depositions on paper but I a real video has never seen prerecording of a witness or a real name of someone. But I can draw one conclusion: We do not know it certain. IF this is hoax, then it is magnifieke hoax. Then this must be directed by a lot of competent people who master many techniques psychologically well, not only graphic but also strategic and. IF this is hoax, I find it strange that someone has not stood up who has geclaimd that he/she is responsible for this xxxx. IF this is hoax, then is there appalling much creativity and fantasia used… take only already the signs on the drone which are devised as a type of junction between Klingon, Japanese and Jew. IF this is hoax has be able be nevertheless also proved that…? All in all I find it a case with appalling many obscurities on illogical elements ...... Both pro and contra sit there ordinary as lot of hooks and look to. For me it is much too complex take off this simply as: Proved/did not prove I leave it but provisionally in the middle. Quoten Inappropriate? Posted on: 17-4-2009 23:30: 26 What also claims everyone ....... There is no univocal draw conclusion on this matter. - Halo 3 item is not it. - Alien craft did not prove are it also. But argument rattles could you tended be something extraterrestrial wants see because… The witnesses provide beautiful depositions on paper but I a real video has never seen prerecording of a witness or a real name of someone. But I can draw one conclusion: We do not know it certain. IF this is hoax, then it is magnifieke hoax. Then this must be directed by a lot of competent people who master many techniques psychologically well, not only graphic but also strategic and. IF this is hoax, I find it strange that someone has not stood up who has geclaimd that he/she is responsible for this xxxx. IF this is hoax, then is there appalling much creativity and fantasia used… take only already the signs on the drone which are devised as a type of junction between Klingon, Japanese and Jew. IF this is hoax has be able be nevertheless also proved that…? All in all I find it a case with appalling many obscurities on illogical elements ...... Both pro and contra sit there ordinary as lot of hooks and look to. For me it is much too complex take off this simply as: Proved/did not prove I leave it but provisionally in the middle. ( grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

Jeebee said
: I agree with Erwin;(Edit:OF Course You Do HAHAHAHA )Linda Moulton Howe of ' Earthfiles' , the story cover now also. They interviewed Ruud thought I on the same day that we the Sureline did conversation. Linda the complete drone have followed matter of very close and examined and have been still persuaded of the validiteit of the cases. There is no simple answer on this matter, which makes extremely captivating to it follow. Look for a chronology of the complete drone happens on www.earthfiles.com. We gladly speak soon CGI specialist in Sureline; not one which z' n ' mind' already on, but a nuanced critical thinker has made
.

God, Have we not heard this before?
They did not deviate from the 2yr old script..same logic! same words! But worse!They name not one Cgi Expert like FX Models, Or Biedny ..Its like they just appeared yesterday!
Have they Gone Daft? or anyone, they want a critcal thinker..Hmm where can we find some of those..Let me think..

Well Some better read Dutch Posters said:

Linda Moulton Howe, the woman who considers a prerecording of a flying (vaporous) gull for real UFO, because " expert" that says…

Sigh…. Cal. Drone are 100% CGI. Do not will explain why. Here me reads motivation but in the comments. http://www.grenswetenschap.nl/nieuws.asp?n=2478 http://www.dronehoax.com People " to come there not uit" because they want believe. Sorry that I must put it this way.


That first photograph is indeed humbugs. They come from TV-serie the " The Terminator.

Poor Ruud He hardly was mentioned here..Maybe tomorrow..

At least the said at the beginning of Blog..article
The photographer proves to be 12 foto' s to have shot of the object (to see photograph to the right). In ' no time' it goes around reported the world. Ruud, the photographer, are world news.
Strange sense of proportion there Buddy..I have no doubt maybe Fox wouldn't mind.

I'm glad the audience was smarter..
I'm not to worried about Rudd, as they virtually buried any real mention of him in text comments, while pushing all of Lindas stuff..
I would not in the least be surprised if Nemo was in the studio or behind the keyboard in the comments section...

World Class Phonies!!!!!









Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 18th, 2009, 06:53am

Eleven august: we do many shows with international guests, so language should not have been a barrier. We contacted HPO and I'm sure he tried to get someone of the team interested to phone in. Alas...we'll try again.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by elevenaugust on Apr 18th, 2009, 07:48am

on Apr 18th, 2009, 06:53am, Jeebee wrote:
Eleven august: we do many shows with international guests, so language should not have been a barrier. We contacted HPO and I'm sure he tried to get someone of the team interested to phone in. Alas...we'll try again.

Hi Jeebee!

Glad to hear you!
Sorry for the show, but I guess I was too late (And I also thought that the show was only in Dutch, sorry...)
undecided
Next time, I'll be there! smiley

11
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 18th, 2009, 09:48am

on Apr 18th, 2009, 06:53am, Jeebee wrote:
Eleven august: we do many shows with international guests, so language should not have been a barrier. We contacted HPO and I'm sure he tried to get someone of the team interested to phone in. Alas...we'll try again.


Hey Jeebee, while you're on our show here, Not elevenaugust, and speak good English, explain to us how you ignored the opinion, of the world class experts David Biedny's opinion, who wrote the book on photo shop, Mufons, Torvals, a filmaker who have no prejudice to ufo, and the analysis of 11 very talented people on the Openmindsforum.com, with no axe to grind. With analysis that took a long time, with both sides of argument present, and the proof witnesses lied, and the voices of several websites. all say FAKE . Howcan you say to your audience this is very "complex issue". Complex how? Tell us Please
Please explain..
You are acting like you see these for first time in your Life, or are you just playing stupid? or are just thinking your audience is stupid and they don'tdon't read?
Just what research have you done on Drones and even the thousands of Kites in your own neighborhood, which our results show this can be?


Thank you!!

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 18th, 2009, 10:46am

We're digging Fortean stories. Collecting tales is our purpose. We don't study everything and avoid being rigid in our opinions. We don't like emotional attacks and try to be honest. We're not interested in researchers that cry out loud they're right. Humour is our way to survive in this barren landscape of possibilities. Don't take yourself to serious is our beloved quote. Listen to the people, dream and laugh, in the end no one knows exactly what life is all about. So Quincy; we're claiming nothing, we're just telling stories.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 18th, 2009, 10:53am

Fortean ok if no explanation, entertainment is ok to make laugh! Yes..then make sure you put Entertainment purposes Only becuase real story is here.
Plenty of stuff are mystery, and make us laugh..its quite another thing to say no evidence this is not real. You make conclusion, people like you and listen to you, and believe your word.
There was plenty to say fake, from the pictures to the witnesses to the documents.!!

Yes, serious, when people are tricked to give money to so many crooks, not you!, but others saying they have alien metal, and they make it up. It might be your mother or father, or God Forbid, your child.
Sorry, We take it very seriously, because if not, then all ufology a joke!..


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 18th, 2009, 11:11am

http://fleascircuses.blogspot.com/
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 18th, 2009, 12:29pm

Inquiry posted here if anyone wants to see what results:

http://www.kitebuilder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=95669#95669


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 18th, 2009, 12:42pm

Oooh, good idea!

Thanks Katt. That should be an interesting thread to follow.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 18th, 2009, 12:59pm

on Apr 18th, 2009, 12:29pm, Katterfelto wrote:
Inquiry posted here if anyone wants to see what results:

http://www.kitebuilder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=95669#95669


Thanks Katt & kudos!!

That's an interesting first reply as well:

User Image


Cheers. smiley
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 18th, 2009, 2:34pm

Thanks DrDil.
You could get some real interesting effects using various colors on certain pieces of that thing. Depending how you look at it you can see different shape illusions.

Maybe others can post to more kite forums.

I wonder if LMH or the other big time UFO reporters ever bother to ask a simple question to the kite communities. I'd say they are an important resource with things that fly by in the skies! grin
Nah.... silly me, they would not be considered experts. rolleyes

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 18th, 2009, 3:35pm

We sent the photographs to the Dutch "Red Baron" kite team and are waiting for answers. Ruud is without any doubt a reliable witness; he is as anxious to know what he has seen and photographed as anyone of us.
Don't blame him for things he can't explain. In our Sureline show I mentioned it a strange object and associated it immediately with the 'drones' as reported in the United States in 2007. No...I did not study all the critical- and non-critical reports and report these things with open mind.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 18th, 2009, 3:42pm

As for you DrDil; don't ever sent those silly translated replies to the forum page of www.grenswetenschap.nl. An automatic translation I quess; no one in the Dutch Mountains understands Chinese.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 18th, 2009, 4:09pm

on Apr 18th, 2009, 3:42pm, Jeebee wrote:
As for you DrDil; don't ever sent those silly translated replies to the forum page of www.grenswetenschap.nl. An automatic translation I quess; no one in the Dutch Mountains understands Chinese.

Hi JeeBee smiley,

I guessed as much but as no other replies were in English I thought I’d chance my luck, not to worry. The offer still stands however, i.e. I’m still more than willing to publish the analysis of your ‘CGI specialist’ alongside the rest at DroneHoax.com, as I said a little balance is only a good thing.

Rest assured, I won’t trouble you at ‘your place’ again but merely thought it was the courteous thing to do as that’s where the message I was replying to was originally posted, it appears I was mistaken.

Cheers. smiley
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 18th, 2009, 4:19pm

I reported the wind analysis before already, and the variance in lighting for a time that is sunset, from the Navy info chart. Thats when he said maybe 130 to 5pm.
It it is almost a 100 percent a sure bet its a kite, what type irrelevent.Thats the same waldof kite I put up, after 11 11 himself hit on it before anyone. Low wind, because he was sheltered by the Hedges or buhes right there seen in canal picture from google.
Thank you Katte for the post at Kitebuilders, the extra info is more to evidence it is kite.


I have no doubt Ruud was sincere, he even said his camera may be off! on date, and even admitted maybe a little wind. Again, the bushes he went thru he said. thats why we use tree lines here, for wind protection to crops.
What bothers me was the rush to put it up without any analysis.
I want to thank you for being honest here Jeebee.
That perhaps you didnt look at all the critical factors.


But the fact is LMH herself has not done any research she would release to the public She in a better positon than anyone to compare actually, yet she ran like a loca (crazy) with it...She calls her self a journalist. Is this what we want journalists to do. You were honest, you said entertainment and story, she does not. She says she is serious. but I can see, how you would be taken in too, to be quite candid about. But to wait a couple of days was not unreasonable. I wish you had ..

User Image

I think your program has great potential, but will lose it following her methods not checking anything or vetting witnesses, Just sensationationalism. Worse, She never admits a mistake. That more than a bad kite, is bad form.

Pardon the Babel translations too. they do come out almost chinese! grin but we try, because we sincerely care..never forget that.
Regards
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 18th, 2009, 4:28pm

"We just report this stuff and let the listener decide."

Where have we heard that bit of disingenuous bullfeathers before? Oh, yeah. Art Bell. Now there is a solid source of information! When you "report" a few carefully chosen facts and then claim you are "fair and balanced," or "open minded," you not only make a mockery of honest reporting, you make an a$$ of yourself.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 18th, 2009, 4:37pm

People have died as a result of that already too sadly.
Heavens gate, he had people running to the countryside, buying guns etc for survival. during y2k. etc. They do it now with 2012. not good.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 18th, 2009, 4:58pm

Good point, Quincy. They can't even hide behind the absurd "We're just having a little fun here," either.

Anyone who does ten minutes of even sloppy "research" into the drone quagmire will know how the evidence stacks up. To ignore the only conclusion that is supported by the evidence is just plain irresponsible.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 18th, 2009, 5:06pm

Hey DNS,

Our approach is a mere philosophical one; there's no objective reality as scientists proclame. The universe unfolds itself in our consciousness. Everything we measure, think, prove is an act of consciousness. So...we're no fools, we're open for all possibillities. Carl Gustav Jung, the famous psychiatrist considered UFO's as realities that appear in human minds. Are they true? No one knows. Don't blame others for yer own misunderstanding.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 18th, 2009, 5:17pm

In other words; Sureline radio offers the opportunity for researchers worldwide to share their opinions about a phenomenon that's 'airborne' in human minds. It's part of our reality. IMO it's a fragmented vision to delete these experiences and decide there's just one way to deal with them.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 18th, 2009, 5:30pm

on Apr 18th, 2009, 5:17pm, Jeebee wrote:
In other words; Sureline radio offers the opportunity for researchers worldwide to share their opinions about a phenomenon that's 'airborne' in human minds. It's part of our reality. IMO it's a fragmented vision to delete these experiences and decide there's just one way to deal with them.

Hi again *JayBee JeeBee,

Just thought I’d mention that I’ve never questioned your modus-operandi nor your ethics, I simply wanted to share the opinion of your CGI specialist and I was surprised by your comment of, “As for you DrDil; don't ever sent those silly translated”.

Especially as I was courteous in my comment and didn’t really want to broach the topic here as I felt it could me misperceived as I was moderator and the question I was asking bore no relevance to UFOCasebook. And as for Ruud being sincere I’ve promoted that sentiment since he first posted as had many others before you made your last comment regarding such.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.....

Cheers. smiley

*(Edit to correct name).
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 18th, 2009, 5:34pm

Thank you DrDil; it's a little bit strange for me to discuss in 'English', quite possible that I don't understand some things the proper way. Pleasure for me being here.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 18th, 2009, 5:37pm

on Apr 18th, 2009, 5:06pm, Jeebee wrote:
Hey DNS,

Don't blame others for yer own misunderstanding.


If you knew anything about me, or even if you were half as smart as you think you are, you would know just how ludicrous that statement is. rolleyes
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 18th, 2009, 5:46pm

Jeebee, I understand what you are saying, but We aren't talking about a man having a vision of the immaculate conception in the clouds, or Jungs archetypal symbols in mass consciousness, Its lining up the most probabale to the least probable, based on observable and quantifiable facts. Which, in essence has been done. To leave out the facts, is not only fragmentatious in itself, but irresponsible. We all see the sunrise and sunset, and can rely on it, whether one thinks angels are doing it, or something else.
The witness is asking you what it is. And the conclusion points to very likely a kite. That cannot be left out of the discussion.
Ok to say flying cross or ufo, or maybe dimensional being, but you would have to say, that is least probable, in the face of what we all know.
To pick and choose, is highly irregular whether you subsccribe to eastern, or western systems of reasoning. Both systems have baselines. here in this case, That was left out.
What is left to stand on?
It should be obvious to everyone, that would mean there is no case for drone here, as much as others want it to be. To tell the public otherwise then becomes a question of faith, Lindas Faith, or even yours, though, I am sure..you know better at least by now. Why have science, or measurements, simply, believe.

The role of people in the media cannot be underestimated.
Off Topic I just remembered the story of a woman catching her husband in bed with another woman,
The man calmly dressed up and and quietlly while the "other" woman left, said to his wife, now in shock,
Hey, who are you going to believe, Me or your Lying eyes smiley

I am sure we can metaphysically talk about quantum states, it did and it didn't...
all possibilities, but what is the probabability of what really happened?




Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 18th, 2009, 5:53pm

I used to run into these characters all the time when I was searching out other "Sethies." Usually all I found were flakes who took little bits from one philosophy here, a clever idea from their favorite author there, something that turned them on from, say, Buddhism, a little Christian dogma whether they realized it or not, and so on. Of course we create our own reality! We do not, however, do it by believing whatever fantasy we take a shine to. That's just intellectual laziness and general lack of spiritual discipline. Makes for a lot of vapid Word Salad. (look it up)

No matter how much one might want the "drones" to be real, they are computer generated hoaxes. Promoting them is nothing but spreading lies.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 18th, 2009, 6:06pm

Let's wait and see; the kite team will respond and we will react, as usual and forever and ever...period.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 18th, 2009, 6:15pm

on Apr 18th, 2009, 6:06pm, Jeebee wrote:
Let's wait and see; the kite team will respond and we will react, as usual and forever and ever...period.

Hi Jeebee, if they say it is most likely a kite, what will you tell your audience?

Nah,.... let me rephrase that: What and how will you tell your audience?

Thanks

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by neveleeleven on Apr 18th, 2009, 6:21pm

on Apr 18th, 2009, 5:06pm, Jeebee wrote:
Everything we measure, think, prove is an act of consciousness.

So...we're no fools, we're open for all possibillities.


0nce upon a time, there was a man standing next to a large tree out in the forest by himself. The tree was infested with termites that had seriously weakened the base of the tree, and the weight of the tree was losing a battle with gravity.

Sure enough, the termites continue to eat away at the tree and gravity starts to win the battle, and the tree starts to slowly tilt, and fall right towards the man standing next to it. It is such a large tree that the man has enough time to look up, measure, think, and prove to himself that the tree is going to fall on him.

However, because he listens to Sureline radio, he also thought to himself that everything we measure, think, and prove is only an act of consciousness. So, he was open to all the possibilities, and one of all the possibilities is that the tree wouldn't fall on him, nor hurt him.

Sadly enough, the tree did fall on him, and ended his life. The people that found his body under the tree figured he was a fool.

"A silly or stupid person; a person who lacks judgment or sense."

on Apr 18th, 2009, 10:46am, Jeebee wrote:
So Quincy; we're claiming nothing, we're just telling stories.


Me too.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 19th, 2009, 01:34am

Perhaps someone would like to use the measurements of these to compare the poles. They are manufactured by Siemens, and the poles come in varying lengths of standard 18m or 21.28ft to a maximum of 36 Meters 42.56 ft. . They appear telescopic like car antennas..but here are precise measurements, fotr the poles, and the discs themselves as well..both should be useful. I want to see what you all get, versus what I got using simple ratios, and distances of comparable photographs.
User Image
User Image
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Thank you

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 19th, 2009, 03:03am

Then of course there is whats called rule of 57 explained here.

User Image
User Image
1m=3.2808399 feet
grin
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 19th, 2009, 08:04am

on Apr 19th, 2009, 03:03am, Quincy wrote:
Then of course there is whats called rule of 57 explained here.

Interesting Quincy.
Would this be valid/accurate for the distances in question here? Looks like one of those equations that could have some assumptions built in i.e., D is much much greater than diameter of earth?? I'm getting too lazy and old to play with trig anymore. tongue It just looks to fall appart as the diameter of earth approaches the object and the angle increases.
This would be Nev's forte. smiley

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 19th, 2009, 1:12pm

No fancy formulas Katt,just measure the angle wiidth the teeny spot, just like the pix. and plug in..this does two things, you can calculate dstance, and you can calculate width of object the object should make using the 2km info he gave..very simple....that will tell you how far Ruud may have been off.using distance from observer..
.after all, he was just eyeballing it too, and said maybe was off on other data.

Sounds crude, but very simpla and effective. I found it last night in an astronomy society article..I found it humorous the used a kite as an example..
smiley
By now I am sure others have read and are trying this..
it should be fun!

Lets have fun!

cheesy
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 19th, 2009, 1:49pm

Yes, we need some fun! laugh

Quick test in drawing program for 1 inch object 6 inches away was pretty close. About 3% error which some of it could be my fault. Now I gotta go study my sines and tangents because it's perked my curiosity. cool

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 19th, 2009, 2:38pm

on Apr 19th, 2009, 03:03am, Quincy wrote:
Then of course there is whats called rule of 57 explained here.

User Image
User Image
1m=3.2808399 feet
grin

Katter
The very first math book I read cover to cover when younng was Fun with Mathematics and the Imagination, all nifty stuff.
You mentioned sines and cosines, therea are identity formulas , but I this did not involve that..thsi is how I imagine the ancients did their work....Howevr since you have known distances and pole lenghs, I imagine you can reach same results..
3 percent very acceptable
grin

Practicing with known pole legths like in that large pole pic you posted and comparing it it to actual known standard sizes shoul yield great results. even the discs have standard sizes right there in the diagrams I posted. So, we are no longer working in a vacuum. Yous just the discs which we know for a fact, versus the polegth in doubt, will be better I think.
Have fun!

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Radi on Apr 19th, 2009, 3:05pm

Great Work on this everyone laugh laugh
My thoughts were that is was most likey a kite due to the color in the image...IT has almost the same color scheme as the kite that was posted about....
On a side note LMH is posting about this being compared to a crop-circle...hahah.....
Hmmm should draw up a petion to have that emmy taken back.....heheh....
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by redstar888 on Apr 19th, 2009, 4:05pm

BTW.
Did you know that Petten is one of the few sites in Holland that has a nuclear plant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petten_nuclear_reactor
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 19th, 2009, 4:49pm

Hi Red Star, did you know also that Petten is where they have international Kite shows and wind surfing.
Yes its a wonderful place! Great for fishing too!
Holland had Headquarters for Greenpeace too!,, so many good things Did you know France has dozens of nuclear plants too, they are world Leaders!! big % of existing 400 NPP's around world.
User Image
Association is therefore bad,
If it was ET, you would think France would be ET capital of the World!


cheers

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 19th, 2009, 4:55pm

Thats right Radi!!
because Linda sits on the board of the ICC for cropcircles, a very hard core Crop Circle group, and I believe , have too doublecheck that, they were working on with UFO hunters on movie too. They were affiliated with CCconnectors now defunct, but that was the Sherwood people, who were on Paracast recently,...stating its ET, Its cocnsciousness, it local intent. its cosmic will..blah bl;ah blah.So I would not put it past them making silly or bizarre, unsubstantiated connections, much less, maybe even fabricating their own event. who knows.
They can speculate.so can we. Its alll in the head and intent ehh?
cheesy



So No surprise she pushing her own wares by hook or by crook, imo.!
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 19th, 2009, 5:39pm

Nice story eleven; alas...mental trees don't kill. Received a message tonight from kite specialists in the Netherlands:

Hoi Jan,

Ik weet vrijwel zeker dat dit een vlieger is
het is een variant op de de aloud bekende peter waldorf box kite
meer dan 30 jaar oud

op het filmpje op het form zie je ook dat deze beweegt als een vlieger

Hey Jan, I'm pretty sure it's a kite, some sort of the Peter Waldorf box kite, more then 30 years old.
In the movie the movements can be recognized as the movements of a kite.

Arthur.

So...perhaps a kite and not a drone.






Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 19th, 2009, 5:42pm

on Apr 19th, 2009, 3:05pm, Radi wrote:
On a side note LMH is posting about this being compared to a crop-circle...hahah.....
Hmmm should draw up a petion to have that emmy taken back.....heheh....


I guess this is no worse than that gull LMH was promoting as a space ship a year or two back, but the gull had no imagined connections to other fraudulent enterprises. She is so far around the bend by now that it should be painfully obvious even to any casual observer who encounters her site. It seems she really does believe in the reality of the drones, to the point that she lists every possible connection to them as a real sighting, no matter how tenuous or even absurd the report may have been. I am sure she is still describing herself as a "science reporter" or whatever phrase she likes to use. She may have done some good work in the past (or maybe not; I have my doubts about that now), but she may as well go ahead and adopt some half-baked new age belief system. That would at least be a clear indication to everyone who visits her site, just what she is about. If there ever was anything behind her claims to being scientific, it's history.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 19th, 2009, 5:44pm

emphasis on 'perhaps'.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 19th, 2009, 5:49pm

Hmmm DNS...I love the LMH site, she does a terrific job. She's presenting enchanted stories, stories we need to live our 'not scientific stamped' life. Take it as it is; where's yer humour?
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 19th, 2009, 5:52pm

I am not the least bit surprised.

Have you visited the DRT forum? You should! You will find many kindred spirits there.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 19th, 2009, 5:56pm

on Apr 19th, 2009, 5:39pm, Jeebee wrote:
Received a message tonight from kite specialists in the Netherlands:

Hoi Jan,

Ik weet vrijwel zeker dat dit een vlieger is
het is een variant op de de aloud bekende peter waldorf box kite
meer dan 30 jaar oud

op het filmpje op het form zie je ook dat deze beweegt als een vlieger

Hey Jan, I'm pretty sure it's a kite, some sort of the Peter Waldorf box kite, more then 30 years old.
In the movie the movements can be recognized as the movements of a kite.

Arthur.

So...perhaps a kite and not a drone.


Thanks Jeebee. That's 2 kite community opinion of a Waldorf.
Emphasis on "opinion". grin

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Gort on Apr 19th, 2009, 5:57pm

At least LMH has an economic motive so we know where she is coming from, however repugnant, but what compels some of these other new age types? Probably detached from reality to begin with.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 19th, 2009, 6:07pm

on Apr 19th, 2009, 5:57pm, Gort wrote:
At least LMH has an economic motive so we know where she is coming from, however repugnant, but what compels some of these other new age types? Probably detached from reality to begin with.


I think you just nailed it, Gort. I happen to like reality a lot, so I am not motivated to find an easy exit. Exploring the one I live in is great fun, and challenging, and of course frustrating at times. Mastering it is like mastering any skill or discipline: delicious!

Listen, Jeebee. Science certainly does not have all the answers, and scientists are not "right" any more often than any other professionals are, on average. Science needs to change, and it will. You may even help, but not by distorting what science is or trying to deny what it has accomplished. When you take that approach, you look like an idiot to scientists, and to some of the rest of us. Looking like an idiot has never been an effective way of dealing with science or any of its practitioners or fans.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 19th, 2009, 7:00pm

on Apr 19th, 2009, 6:07pm, Double Nought Spy wrote:
Looking like an idiot has never been an effective way of dealing with science or any of its practitioners or fans.

Ah... but looking and acting like an idiot can be profitable and popular in certain venues! grin
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 20th, 2009, 08:01am

I’ve moved a few of the last posts into the other Drone thread, could all members try to stay relatively on topic please. (Holland Object).

Many thanks.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 20th, 2009, 08:37am

Yes , thanx for that it must be hard considering we keep seeing the same people behind these things all the time pushing it to their own agendas. Hard to tell them from threads apart anymore...It almost doesn't really seem to matter anymore..But... can you find out why BJ felt it necessary to not only call it the object he saw Drone LIke but also a pressing need to contact LMH before anyone else.
As part of the Mufon Network advertised here, was Mufon consulted and what were their thoughts.?
Does He think he did the right thing?
Is there some sort of pre arranged agreement between the lot to exploit or publicize these things together, it seems to feel that way at times doesn't it?

What are his thoughts on it now? given the weight of the evidence to kite?
Does he like Linda Still thinks its real and something other than a kite ?
Edit: times change.


Thanx!
cool
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 20th, 2009, 10:11am

on Apr 20th, 2009, 08:37am, Quincy wrote:
But... can you find out why BJ felt it necessary to not only call it the object he saw Drone LIke but also a pressing need to contact LMH before anyone else.
As part of the Mufon Network advertised here, was Mufon consulted and what were their thoughts.?
Does He think he did the right thing?
Is there some sort of pre arranged agreement between the lot to exploit or publicize these things together, it seems to feel that way at times doesn't it?

What are his thoughts on it now? given the weight of the evidence to kite?
Does he like Linda Still thinks its real and something other than a kite ?
Edit: times change.

Thanx!
cool

Hi Quincy, smiley

Your best bet would be to contact him yourself (he answers PM's promptly).

He has however already answered your first query:

on Apr 15th, 2009, 6:40pm, B J Booth wrote:
When I first was contacted by Ruud, he made no claims whatsover, the terms UFO or drone were never used. He and I never discussed nor even mentioned either of the two. I never asked him about the drones. It was I who first used the phrase, "drone-like " simply because that was the first thing that came to mind. What should I have called it?

And as for the second part ("but also a pressing need to contact LMH before anyone else") how do you know that firstly LMH was contacted before anyone else and secondly that BJ contacted LMH? It’s strange how we interpret the same information as I automatically assumed the opposite, i.e. that LMH sought out BJ, but either way only he can answer both of those questions.

(PM him here)

Hope this helps!! cool

Cheers. smiley
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 20th, 2009, 10:42am

Nothing Strange Dr.Dil,
BJ
The only think he asked me was "Do you have any idea what that thing might be?" I told him I did not, but that we would work on finding out.

I knew as soon as the photos were posted on the Casebook, that I would get swamped with email, and I did. About 75%, (an estimate), has run positive.

I do not know what it is, and I have never said what it is, and neither has Ruud. I am sure that if he knew he was going to be run through the mud, he would probably just kept them to himself. I was reluctant myself, but felt they should be posted for all to see.


Yes we intrepret things differently.
He is not the first witness, I imagine to come thru here.
How did Linda get his Contact info.? and why Linda, considering she does no analysis of anything, why not Mufon, at same time, start thing right. Anyway, Analysis, answers, is what Ruud, if I am to believe him and BJ came for, not exposure.

or did Ruud contact Linda?
and is that usual for a witness who with no knowledge of prior drones, as I understand, he just wanted to know what it was, but apparently didn't wait . Odd for a rush after a year and a half.

I am sure he will answer, its a not a complex question, and its not a PM type of question, I think..That an answer or even asking should embarass anyone, or even I have to whisper or be reluctant to ask.

g'day




Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 20th, 2009, 11:00am

on Apr 20th, 2009, 10:42am, Quincy wrote:
Nothing Strange Dr.Dil,
BJ
The only think he asked me was "Do you have any idea what that thing might be?" I told him I did not, but that we would work on finding out.

I knew as soon as the photos were posted on the Casebook, that I would get swamped with email, and I did. About 75%, (an estimate), has run positive.

I do not know what it is, and I have never said what it is, and neither has Ruud. I am sure that if he knew he was going to be run through the mud, he would probably just kept them to himself. I was reluctant myself, but felt they should be posted for all to see.

Yes we intrepret things differently.

I’m aware of that but how is that quote by BJ relevant to the questions I addressed?

on Apr 20th, 2009, 08:37am, Quincy wrote:
But... can you find out why BJ felt it necessary to not only call it the object he saw Drone LIke but also a pressing need to contact LMH before anyone else.


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 20th, 2009, 11:02am

I, too, would rather get this straightened out in plain sight. For what it is worth, I got the same impression that Quincy got about BJ's contact with LMH. I found his original mention of it, not the easiest thing to do since it appears to now exist only in a message from DrDil, quoting BJ. He just says that he spoke on the phone with LMH. That certainly implies a friendly cooperation, which of course is not a crime, but I'd like to be clear on what happened. LMH is far from a reliable source of anything, in my opinion.

In the transcript of the interview, on Earthfiles, Ruud says that he was not familiar with the drones. He also says he has spent quite a bit of time here. Does this compute? I am not calling Ruud a liar, it's just that when only carefully selected bits of information are available publicly, questions like this are inevitable.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 20th, 2009, 11:11am

Let him answer for himself Dr, Dil. As you said.He told Rudd he would work on it. Did working on it include making sure Linda shared his contact. Thats my question whether you agree with it or not,

Is there another way you want me to rephrase it to fit English manners or decorum better, then feel free edit it for me, but I would like some answers nevertheless.

Thanks

Thank you Double, I am glad others are seeing the same thing or similar.
I just perhaps don't express my concerns, as clearly as I would like to.


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 20th, 2009, 11:24am

Not at all Quincy, it’s phrased fine the way it is, I was genuinely just trying to help.....

on Apr 20th, 2009, 11:02am, Double Nought Spy wrote:
For what it is worth, I got the same impression that Quincy got about BJ's contact with LMH. I found his original mention of it, not the easiest thing to do since it appears to now exist only in a message from DrDil, quoting BJ. He just says that he spoke on the phone with LMH. That certainly implies a friendly cooperation, which of course is not a crime, but I'd like to be clear on what happened. LMH is far from a reliable source of anything, in my opinion.

Hi Doubles it wa never a message but posted on the fourth paragraph down on the following (Casebook main) page:

http://www.ufocasebook.com/2009b/pettenholland3.html

(As well as on the first page of this thread).

Hope that helps,

Cheers.

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 20th, 2009, 11:44am

Thank you, Dr. This is a big place!

While I am here, I will attempt to clarify my mention of the interview with Ruud, above. I don't like having my honesty questioned, and obviously Ruud doesn't like it any more than I do. My guess is that the apparent (to me at least) discrepancy is the product of LMH's editing of LMH's notoriously leading questions. I dislike being made to guess.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 20th, 2009, 11:55am

I had a phone conversation with Linda Moulton Howe this afternoon, and we are collaborating on the research and information gathering aspect of the Holland drone-like photographs... more info will be coming soon. thanks again,

It doesn't say who called whom, but What information and research, apart from what we did here , was done by her that justified the collaboration to begin with.?
What are the results so far?
What has UCB gotten from Her? Nothing it would appear, that helped solve it, but only helped herself to burying the truth of the kite sighting under a blanket of Drone hype and pretense to promote a hoax .Something BJ said he did not like, but could have foreseen especially with her.

I cannot fathom this.
I really can't.

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by beeleaver66 on Apr 20th, 2009, 11:58am

I'm sure all those involved want proof one way or another, Hoax or real, but doesn't it seem obvious to you all that the Other Drone sightings have wound down, and now this Holland sighting, is sent to BJ Booth, only to get things started up again, I followed the other Hoax, from day one, and was happy to see it end. Not the way it did, but.... Here looks like yet another opportunity. Have fun. Seems like some geeky game is being played out.

A. Beeleaver
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 20th, 2009, 12:08pm

It certainly seems that way Beleever, I think its a desperate game of grasping straws and more and more people like yourself see that. Thats a good thing.
Regards
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 20th, 2009, 12:16pm

Hi all,

I wondered, it was just as simple photo made by me, and also a simple question. "what could this be".
If I would have known, there were so many reactions...
I would'nt have even thinking about posting it.
Personal I thought it was somekind of an beacon.
May be for an airshow or misile shooting.
If it is a kite, fine with me. I would like to see it in real.
Must be a very nice one and I wonder how big it is.


Regards Ruud



Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 20th, 2009, 12:55pm

HiRuud, Nice is an understatement, they come in all sizes..the average man size has dimensions below.
Hope that helps..designs and painting, zebra, polk dots, strips, and fabric that comes in designs too.... all up to designers.. Some as I have said can even be stacked.
still the basic waldoff design is still followed.

remember..they come in all sizes..and that was was probably big but not a big maybe as the third one..look at that baby must be 100ft tall! They must want to fly that in a hurricane. shocked
User Image
User Image
User Image



http://www.geocities.com/p_leriche/wald/index.htm
http://www.geocities.com/p_leriche/wald/index.htm#photos
Outline
The sail is made up of four parts:

1. Two inner boxes (green), each made of 6 panels 150mm x 300mm
2. Two sets of 6 spokes (yellow), each 300mm square
3. Two outer boxes (red), each made from 6 panels 450 x 300mm
4. Six wings (blue), each with base 900mm and height 450mm.

In addition, there are:

1. Six radial spars joined at the centre in a boss, and extending to the wing tips
2. Six longerons running the length of the base of each wing

Colours refer to the picture and diagrams; you can of course choose any colours you like, but I will continue to refer to my colour scheme for clarity. Dimensions are finished dimensions, excluding hems and seams.

There are different grades of ripstop nylon. Be sure to use the crinkley sort, not the softer sort with a rubbery feel, sometimes sold as "balloon fabric", and used for soft kites. This has little resistance to shearing and so is unlikely to be successful. The quantities you will need, assuming 1.5m wide fabric, and with a bit to spare, are:

1. Inner boxes (green) 0.5m
2. Spokes (yellow) 1.5m
3. Outer boxes (red) 1.5m
4. Wings (blue) 1.5m


hope that helps.. But you know more about there than any of us. But its not like we are the blind mice describing the elephant.
regards
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 20th, 2009, 1:34pm

on Apr 20th, 2009, 12:16pm, Ruud wrote:
Hi all,

I wondered, it was just as simple photo made by me, and also a simple question. "what could this be".
If I would have known, there were so many reactions...
I would'nt have even thinking about posting it.
Personal I thought it was somekind of an beacon.
May be for an airshow or misile shooting.
If it is a kite, fine with me. I would like to see it in real.
Must be a very nice one and I wonder how big it is.


Regards Ruud





User Image

Using the above sized kite as an example (1.8 to 2 meters in height... 6 feet or a little larger), we can estimate it was from 176 to 195 meters (about 200 yards) away... by using the dakmast for size comparison. That should be a fairly good “ball park” estimate.

Best regards,

Marvin


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 20th, 2009, 4:30pm

Marv what angular widths did you get for each object
I used 1.6 M/5.2ft for the Siren Disks not the pole. and 1.7 degrees which, working in reverse to get distance yielded 79.26 M or 260ft. Hmmm.
then on object using 7ft using the second formula I found I get for the distances 501 ft/152M

Thats a lot closer than the 1km its supposed to be, but is ratio wise 2 to 1 as it should be
Ruud, did you drink that nice sunny day , when you gave your 1 and 2 km estimates?. I go fishing and bring a couple of six packs all the time. Its tradition here.
So help me here Rudd, can you remember anything else?
Perhaps my angular widths are all wrong.
What do you think Marv?


Thanx
smiley

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 20th, 2009, 4:49pm

What’s up with all those comments in the “Reader Input on Holland Photographs” Casebook breaking news page? huh
Maybe I’ve not been here long enough to know what generally comes in or gets posted from reader input. But when I read this I really have to shake my head in wonder. Not one comment received or posted that it just may be ...... a kite? rolleyes

Is it normal practices here to put speculation like this on what is suppose to be a news page?
Please forgive my ignorance and slap me if I’m out of line.

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 20th, 2009, 5:02pm

Hi Katterfelto, Just in time, yeah I saw that..I thought is was puffing a tad too. hehehehe. Thats why I hope they didn't use Ruuds real name in case it turned out just like this. In Mexico, and other countries, same thing...the Spanish go all out hahaha.
But I would down load those pages Ruud and frame them, it makes for good bragging, when you see Rudd Make world news!

I was asking Marv what angular widths he got using his drawing tools. What did you get?
smiley
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 20th, 2009, 5:21pm

on Apr 20th, 2009, 5:02pm, Quincy wrote:
I was asking Marv what angular widths he got using his drawing tools. What did you get?
smiley


Hi Quincy, where/how are you placing the observer?
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by picard001 on Apr 20th, 2009, 5:58pm

Does anyone know what kind of tower is in the picture? Who makes these towers. It is nowhere to be seen on google earth. My opinion says this is a kite. Posted pics of the kites are very similar for sure. This is only my opinion.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 20th, 2009, 6:10pm

on Apr 20th, 2009, 5:58pm, picard001 wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of tower is in the picture? Who makes these towers. It is nowhere to be seen on google earth. My opinion says this is a kite. Posted pics of the kites are very similar for sure. This is only my opinion.

Hi picard001, view earlier posts in this section. Quincy found dimensions for it, made by Seimens. No mystery on what it is. See also Open Minds Form thread http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=cali1&action=display&thread=5427
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 20th, 2009, 6:19pm

Thanx Kat I used this Gimp thing , I'm not used to interface..and drw a line to bottom of object, got that angle, then drw another to top of object, , subtracted , the the difference should be angular width.
It was easy with the tower discs, but my hands are not ..steady.

What did you get, I have another method, but just need to know if my angle wiidths are correct.
My first method was better, I actually used your pix as a sort of base line and used screenshot magnifier to get pixeel very nicely. Thats why I know I'm correct on the size.
smiley
Thanx..

@picard, its hard even seeing windmills, even when you know they are there are any angle..very odd..
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by picard001 on Apr 20th, 2009, 6:23pm

Thanks kat.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 20th, 2009, 6:53pm

This is a variant with working example.
User Image
User Image

Plug in the wiidth at top and get size..have size work formula bacwards for distance, have distance? then the angular width can be checked aginst others..


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 20th, 2009, 7:25pm

Quincy, I don't see how you are projecting back to the observer eyeball. We know the tower width and possible heights but not angle (or distance). Seems you would need to account for camera lens to work backwards i.e., turn the photo sideways instead of looking into it. Hope that makes sense. I can't find a point of observer reference in 2D. undecided
Where's that eyeball? embarassed

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 20th, 2009, 7:45pm

Katt, what is the angle width you got off yours! Thats all I'm asking for..objetc.....2 .3. 4 .5 1..thats all..
I'm not even worried bout the tower. You said 3 percent variance..but you never posted it.

Don't need to know distortio or thing else..just that .
Just want to save time here
Thanks smiley


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 20th, 2009, 8:07pm

on Apr 20th, 2009, 7:45pm, Quincy wrote:
Katt, what is the angle width you got off yours! Thats all I'm asking for..objetc.....2 .3. 4 .5 1..thats all..
I'm not even worried bout the tower. You said 3 percent variance..but you never posted it.

Don't need to know distortio or thing else..just that .
Just want to save time here
Thanks smiley


Quincy, 3% variance was result of just a quick test to determine the accuracy of the rule 57 equation. It was not done on actual picture but on objects with known dimensions. Sorry if it caused confusion.
I don't know where to place the viewer reference in the picture to be able to measure the angle. I just know the estimated kite and tower piece sizes. Too many unknowns.

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 21st, 2009, 12:13am

then given both indeterminate data from witness, ikm and 2 km, the only thing can get there from poles is either use the standard 18m or lmax 36 m.
you then have using the 36m..a trangle with a hypotenuse of 1000.6 . using basic trig you tan@ source angle of 2 degrees....to chek I leave out height.use the 2 degrees with the 57 rule which gives me 35 or off by a foot. thats the 2.8 percent or 3 percent you spoke of.

Which dear and esteemed colleagues, tells us nothing about the Afrikan drone bee kite.
The problem here then becomes, even if the 1 km data is correct,, then where is the pole at 1 km or abouts, to verify the story? Did the Netherlands Federal authorities remove it to make our witness look bad and to hide the possibilility there may be killer kites roaming the skies of Holland.? I shudder to think.
Triangles dont help us for the kite,you need two sides. we only have one. 2 km

Now if I assume (heehaw heehaw) smiley the kite is 2 meters or 7 ft and reverse the 57 rule to find the angle , I get .05 degrees, remember a pinky is one degree. That reall feels to small.The 11 0r so ft or 4m at least is .11 degrees... full 1 degree would give. us a VERY big kite, like pic 3..but we know he said spot, so much smaller than a pinky.

Something tells me the km figures are off, which can only be proven by no presence of a pole between witness and spot. hmm Spot..Spot Drone..no Shirley has that one. Maybe jeebee can visit there..if he lives close, or HPO . I haven't heard from him since this started. Later for the Nuclear power plant, find the pole!

I understand there might be artifacts on the lenses.
More is coming in to kill this than to help it it seems.
It feels like Nev mentioned that some timme ago..or someone else here.

Perhaps Nev or Marv can add to this. I'm tapped out.











Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 21st, 2009, 07:05am

on Apr 19th, 2009, 01:34am, Quincy wrote:
User Image

{Edit to add link: http://www.brandweerzeeland.nl/cms/publish/content/downloaddocument.asp?document_id=42 ... look on page 25}



Quincy,

My estimation was based on the above, which shows the disks to be 1.13 meters or 1130 cm in diameter (width).

Are the disks a different size on other dakmast?
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 21st, 2009, 08:01am

Angular size is about .63 degrees...

where X is angular size:


     2m                    X
-------------- = ----------
6.28 x 183m 360



It would be as low as 0.52 at 200 meters being 1.8m tall... which is about a fourth of the size of a US dime held at arms length.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 21st, 2009, 11:58am

Hi ,

Very impressive those calculations, I wish I took a photo from the landscape including the air raid siren too. Then it would be much easier, may be next time.
However when I zoomed in on the object I also zoomed in on the air raid siren. It was standing between me and the object.
I did that on purpose, especially because it was easier to find the object and get it for the lens.
It is not easy to estimate the distance. And also the height is very difficult to estimate.
But isn't it so; the further an object is away. The lower it looks.
Anyway the distance was far enough. I could not see people.
But why are you all still speculating about distance, height and shape etc. etc. Most of the people on this forum agreed it's a kite, fine with me. You all conviced me, it had to be a kite.
The longer you are speculating, the longer it looks like you are not sure.
I have no intention my pictures going around knowing as an hoax.
I hate hoaxes.
I have seen pics of that phony thing you are calling a drone all speaking about that it is an hoax.
It never had my interest because it looked so unreal.
Also there is no resemblence with the pics I took.

Regards Ruud

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 21st, 2009, 12:16pm

Thanks, Ruud. Your comments make perfect sense, but unfortunately you have entered a realm where making sense is too often not enough.

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There are many people, some with commercial interests, who are desperate for your pictures to be of something otherworldly. They do not even mention the possibility that it's a kite! We know from long experience that they will try to twist the evidence in whatever way they can. To them, any explanation that keeps the mystery alive, no matter how idiotic that explanation may be, is preferable to a mundane solution. If we can get enough information to get some solid math behind our findings, then we will better be able to counter the next round of loopy "research" and the inevitable bogus "investigations" that will be going on far longer than any sane person would wish them to. I am sorry to say it, but it's true. Your photos will be used as "proof" of all sorts of crazy things for years to come.

Again, thank you for your participation and your help. Your calm and well communicated responses to our prodding and poking have been a huge help. You have done far more to help find the truth here than you may realize.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 21st, 2009, 12:38pm

on Apr 21st, 2009, 11:58am, Ruud wrote:
Hi ,

Very impressive those calculations, I wish I took a photo from the landscape including the air raid siren too. Then it would be much easier, may be next time.
However when I zoomed in on the object I also zoomed in on the air raid siren. It was standing between me and the object.
I did that on purpose, especially because it was easier to find the object and get it for the lens.
It is not easy to estimate the distance. And also the height is very difficult to estimate.
But isn't it so; the further an object is away. The lower it looks.
Anyway the distance was far enough. I could not see people.
But why are you all still speculating about distance, height and shape etc. etc. Most of the people on this forum agreed it's a kite, fine with me. You all conviced me, it had to be a kite.
The longer you are speculating, the longer it looks like you are not sure.
I have no intention my pictures going around knowing as an hoax.
I hate hoaxes.
I have seen pics of that phony thing you are calling a drone all speaking about that it is an hoax.
It never had my interest because it looked so unreal.
Also there is no resemblence with the pics I took.

Regards Ruud

Hi again Ruud,

There are several reasons, apart from being good practice for the next time it’s a subject all of the regular posters are interested in so the practice itself becomes interesting, also irrespective of what we believe it is nice to try and be as sure as we can about things. Regarding the Drones I agree with you and this is why I was keen to disassociate your report from them by posting to another board and when that failed by creating a new thread in the Drone section.

However your report is destined to eternally be labelled as a “Drone” due almost exclusively to the portrayal of you and your account at Earthfiles.

Incidentally did you notice the subtle difference in the titles between the Casebook main page and the Earthfiles one?

Casebook: *Drone-like UFO*
Earthfiles: *Spider-Like “Drone”*

(One describes the shape of a UFO and the other describes the shape of a Drone).

Then LMH writes:

no other 2007 photographs of the mysterious “drones” emerged - until now
So now, I am adding another line to the chronological list of eyewitnesses:”


No surprises there then as “Drones” with worse defining criteria have already been included:

LMH: COULD YOU HEAR ANY SOUND?

Ruud: No, we did not hear any sound. It looked like a spider. I'm really curious about it.”


Then the next sentence is a new paragraph header, reading:

Petten, Holland “Spider” Drone

I won’t continue but as I’m sure you can appreciate it’s now a ‘done-deal’ and you’re a “Drone-witness” as far as LMH is concerned and what’s good enough for her is good enough for die-hard Dronies the world over, as they all seem to classify and claim LMH’s word as beyond reproach.

But take heart because at least after this latest debacle a few more people have had their eyes opened to the media entrepreneur that is LMH, and hopefully also to her subscriber/ratings orientated method of investigative ‘scientific’ reporting…..

Cheers. smiley

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 21st, 2009, 2:15pm

on Apr 21st, 2009, 11:58am, Ruud wrote:
Hi ,

Very impressive those calculations, I wish I took a photo from the landscape including the air raid siren too. Then it would be much easier, may be next time.
However when I zoomed in on the object I also zoomed in on the air raid siren. It was standing between me and the object.
I did that on purpose, especially because it was easier to find the object and get it for the lens.
It is not easy to estimate the distance. And also the height is very difficult to estimate.
But isn't it so; the further an object is away. The lower it looks.
Anyway the distance was far enough. I could not see people.
But why are you all still speculating about distance, height and shape etc. etc. Most of the people on this forum agreed it's a kite, fine with me. You all conviced me, it had to be a kite.
The longer you are speculating, the longer it looks like you are not sure.
I have no intention my pictures going around knowing as an hoax.
I hate hoaxes.
I have seen pics of that phony thing you are calling a drone all speaking about that it is an hoax.
It never had my interest because it looked so unreal.
Also there is no resemblence with the pics I took.

Regards Ruud



Hi Ruud,

Can you estimate the distance to the siren mast from where you took the photos? That will let me know any error in my calculation.


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 21st, 2009, 3:33pm

We are spot on I think Marvin..., now..I may not be a mathematician, but I think I am fairly good at people.
We can't rely on what he says anymore, because it contradicts, the camera data, simple as that.Its not us who should be in doubt, when after two experienced kiting groups spoke, I yield to that.
Sure there is possibility it could be spider monkey , one that goes into fantasy.

He is not even from the area, he said was on vacation,, he was fishing he says, from 1 to 5pm, did not catch anything, nice day, "sometime in the summer, though goig into fall..but..when he took 12 pix in 6 minutes..it was no big deal..and asked no one else at the canal, what that was. But, he can tell you the pitfalls of distance and heights, focusing, etc.. what we can say not say givin absence or presence of photo info..above average I would say. So, why isn't there more.?
Now he says we wait for him when he has time..to see the pole in between him and the object. No one can find pole. whether it is 18m or 36m max from google.
Seimens reports it can be as short as meter and half.from its base...look at the diagram.


as far as I am concerned, its what it is, a kite, whether it was inserted cgi or it actually is a kite over the horizon, or even a sticker on the lens.

No Ruud, you chose what you chose..You were or want to "appear" that way the perfect sucker , for us and the perfect Carnival people. I warned you and Jeebee..

Hard head make for very soft behind Ruud.
You are not country boy Churning Butter, yet you went right along with it. You will have to butter your bread with what you have.
I really don't think we should spend another second absent further real data. That data was the camera. Indirect data was the human behaviour which , imo, was not normal either. The 2 year wait, no other witnesses, just "no big deal"until now, when its time for the hoaxes to come out. and they have.
No one is fooling anyone as I said in the other thread.

This was caught early and it was caught fast..
Good day.



Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 21st, 2009, 4:34pm

Hi Quincy,


We can't rely on what he says anymore, because it contradicts, the camera data,

Could you please explain that to me.

Regards Ruud
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 21st, 2009, 4:49pm

Camera said Sept 8, you now say any day from that day and up.
..
Camera said after six, you now say anytime between 1 and 5pm
Time is for sunset, much different than light in your pictures
Thats a good camera by the way.
Exif entries unaccounted for..according to Nev.
Bad battery you say..reset or something like that..
but you had downloaded already to PC and friend you say put on a site..perhaps he can tell you what site..you must have looked no?

We make assumption you say truth, but its all to best of your recollection now..very flawed.., which contradicts what we find..
You say don't care if kite, but seem to care very much..
say we have to show you of the calculations, which you know already are limited based on the photo and distances you gave.

No..sorry..no case here..but good one for the carnival people, they don't need truth of facts..or mathematics..just the image shape..whether kite or a flying Buddha..they have one that will match it..that make it true for them.


About same time you took your pictures in 2007....these people, LMHs friends, drew this connection..
Look!!!!Ohh Myyy..that looks like the drone!!
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Read pink paragraph on the special people..Most of us don't buy this Ruud..there are lots who do.
Youhave to be "specially Chosen"..Don't we all want to feel "special" Ruud?


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They Rajaman and company never did come out the Cupboard
Looks with your kite they are coming out now..



I recommend you join them, (already have, intentionally or not) if you don't think its kite or how we analyzed..its what we were given to work with until someone comes with something better.

Is no longer a UFO..its an identified IFO our analysis with opinions also of experienced people..unanimously..points to highest probability Kite..Earthfiles say Drone..with no proof..You say...ohh..but they said perhaps..remember? So its like you don't like the kite.
I like it ..is beautiful..I'm first to call it Afrikan Bee Drone Kite..that should keep everyone happy..

By the way Did Mufon ever get your pix by the way, I am curious as to their comments..?

.
Regards





Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 21st, 2009, 6:02pm

Hi Quincy,

Camera said Sept 8, you now say any day from that day and up.Can you quote me there ?

Camera said after six.you now say anytime between 1 and 5pm
...May be you can find a siren in that direction (on google earth).
It is very good possible that the time of the camera was not correct. I made the pics defenitly in the afternoon that is for sure. The date is important for me, the time on the camera is for me not so interesting may be it was summertime or something like that. You have to believe me for that, it was between 1 o'clock and 5 o'clock. And I guessed it was round 1.30. That is I believe also what I wrote in my mail. Next time I see an object I will first set the time correct and then I will take pictures.

Camera is indeed very good.Sigma Lens to, less expensive than an original nikon 300 mm.
and asked no one else at the canal.... There was no one else but my wife...
Normal reaction from a friend, you put it on a site.
I didn't ask for calculations, I found them impressive.
And most of all, I don't want to be special and never ever special chosen.
Just took pictures of something I didn't understand.
Two weeks ago I never even heard of Linda Moulton Howe.
You talk about rajaman and his company, what is that?
You say don't care if kite, but seem to care very much..That is what you say, I don't care. honestly.
Didn't know exactly what a mufon does, had to search for it on the internet. I didn't send them photos that is for sure.
And I have nothing to do with those pics you have posted.
I don't know what is going in to you.
I think you are talking like a chicken without a head.
You see I get a little tired, I took pictures, didn't know what it was. Posted it and suddenly everybody is on to me.
Just let it be a kite.
And I don't like to be called a sucker....
Also I don't like you said something about human behaviour wich was'nt normal. You are getting much to personal there.

Regards Ruud


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 21st, 2009, 6:25pm

No one likes being compared to sucker..all of us fall victim at one timeor another. If innocent as you say you are, and we think you are too, then You were taken advantage No doubt about it imo. What other way to say it..I'm sorry I use word like that, The smartest people in world, have fallen at least once..Please
Don't take it personallly..

I never say you connected to these people..okay? bad translation you have..Just show you what these people do with tiniest of things..okay?
You say you never heard of mufon, never drone drama..but found this site..that is good! Others want to spread the Kite as drone like Jeebee and Linda....thats good for them and guess what..you can't stop them..
I don't see you saying or complaining to them!! you sound happy with them..My opinion..

I say what you have given, is only thing we can conclude. I'm not wasting anymore time on this kite.
The others can stay and keep it company..
Thats it. If I find way to get more data in future to calculate I will..but for now

Good luck and go in peace and prosperity.
I am sure more reports will come in .

PS..It still looks like a drone bee shape design..to me! nothing like spider or cropcircle..haha my opinion..
It is just as you say, odd spot, no big deal, 2 years old..and we said what it most likely is after we studied it ..
Nothing more can be said..

Update..there has to be sirene around..because they were completed april 2006 by minister of interior..
But, it looks like after 2005 , the date of google pix..
so I don't read Dutch, but it very possible the follwing LF WAS links below will help you, locate, without having to visit place. Also The cEmergency Preparedness in Holland probably have a layout of every alarm, over 4200 in Holland, but these are much newer. Maybe your own local emergency service.


http://europe.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formtype=address&country=NL&addtohistory=&address=&city=petten&zipcode=

Burgerviotbrug farthest town east
Sportweg south
pettenerweg south
strandweg west


http://www.lfr.nl/activiteiten/was
http://www.lfr.nl/nieuwsberichten/bijplaatsen_sirenes

For the Ministry of the Interior and Kingdom Relations (BZK) the LFR in March 2006 have started with the administrative and technical preparations for the bijplaatsen of in sum 100 sirens in the municipalities. The effective construction of the sirens for the warning scheme will start in September 2006. In April 2007 this project will be ready.

Regards..













Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 22nd, 2009, 02:03am

Being that HPO from Holland himself located the pole,
http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=598.msg6255#new
its as we thought much closer than you thought, less than half a mile at about 2000 ft, prob 1800. or less than 500 meters. which, means the kite or object itself was another .5km..or 1 km.., not 2 ..which would place inear Burgerviotbrug townshop/windmill canal I mentioned. Earlier. sticking to 2km would be burgerbrug.

It also seems consistent with Marvins calculation
Thank you Marvin.
Thank you HPO.
Looks like a 36ft max size one.
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This is what I meant things did not match up.. A cut in half in distances is a very big difference, it does not mean lying, but means mistaken perception.. Thats all. Don't take that.. as calling you that liar. If you sense resentment, its to the Circus people..not you by anymeans...
And
Thank you Ruud..
It was a nice and exciting change of pace from everything else for the last month for sure..



Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 22nd, 2009, 07:10am

Estimates of distances should always have a large tolerance included unless the person is very familiar with an area or has good point of reference. There are probably lots of studies out there showing the inaccuracies made by your average person trying to judge a far off distance, height, size or speed. Unless trained to do it all the time they cannot and should not be trusted as accurate - only very rough ballpark or lucky guess. I could not tell the distance of landmarks I drive by everyday. embarassed Just do not think of distance while viewing. I don’t see or perceive them like a top down Google map.

Makes you wonder about the numbers attached to a lot of UFO events. They get put down in some report or story and hardly get questioned and are just assumed "correct". Reports by pilots and surveyors you would expect good accuracy. But then I see statements about how reliable a sighting is because the witness has some other technical background even if not related to judging real life distances or recognizing uncommon natural events.

Perhaps too much is expected of eyewitnesses in providing good numbers on some aspect of a sighting. Maybe they feel compelled to give a number so not to come across as evasive, untruthful or unintelligent in not knowing distances well. Or, most likely, they simply believe they can judge it correctly. It's only human.

If I saw what Ruud saw I would not be surprised if I was off by miles in my estimate! grin

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 22nd, 2009, 07:24am

Thats one dimension Earthfiles doesn't seem to care about. VanDaniken a few years ago was held accountable for his showing some ufo landing spot, and when someone checked the alleged sites, the real size like a a couple of feet..small ships ehh?

This here is a whole lot different..
I hear from HPO too there were 15 other people at that thing , from some guy Dennis..
who were there..Maybe we hear something else soon what they saw, as story gets out.



Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 22nd, 2009, 07:31am

Sometimes when posting photos at different host sites, the Exif data (and metadata) is changed by the site.

Here is an example of on of the photo's Exif data:

User Image
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 22nd, 2009, 10:49am

on Apr 21st, 2009, 2:15pm, Marvin wrote:
Hi Ruud,

Can you estimate the distance to the siren mast from where you took the photos? That will let me know any error in my calculation.




Ruud,

Can you tell me the distance to the siren mast?

Can you tell me what object you focused the camera on to get a clear (and in focus) shot?

Thanks.

Marvin
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 22nd, 2009, 12:44pm

SPF33/HPO said they had found mast at here
I still can't get it on my goooooooogle cheesy Very very good..
Then again I am almost blind anyway..hahahaha.
second pic is red zone where object shoud be..Ruud said 2 knm or so. ikm to mast another to kite
Thanx SPF33 for the pix and Calcs, weird we knew befor the pix, I have feeling we are all on same page on this.
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the red zone is wher object should have been 1km, if ratio of his perspective seemed to be 2 to 1 I noted earlier. Dangerous spot to fly kites with all those windmill generators. I would be scared.
so if 1.2 km to mast then 1/2 km to object..for an actual total of 1km.

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Could the object actually be farther..if accuracy that bad..then the smallest object might be least accurate..unless the brain just figures it out for him.

by the way I was a bit rough ith mouse on that so recheck to get more precise..
Here is the text of the poster Dutch4truth, at the Historychannels forum..hmm
http://boards.history.com/topic/Ufo-Hunters/Holland-Photos/520045829&start=15
dutch4truth
Posts: 1
From: Netherlands
Registered: 4/18/09

(24 of 27)
Re: Holland photos
Apr 18, 2009 4:21 AM

* Report Abuse

Hi guys!

This is my first post on this forum, and just wanted to give my opinion. i live in holland myself, near petten and i know the people who has taken the photos. didnt talk with him but i know for a fact that more then 15 people had seen something similar that day. even my little nephew saw something weird he said. but he couldt see it good enough. when i saw the photos i thought it was definetly a hoax because it looks allot like the other drones on utube. anyway it could be a hoax only i dont think thats the case, why should 15 other people who dont know eachother lie what the saw? dont know but im sure something was there that day. me and my friends are proberly goin to interview the people who saw something similar and will post that on utube. the media dont look into it so we will do it cheesy anyway i find it interresting.

ps: im already confinced on the ufo subject, ( saw some1 myself 10 years ago above the water near Ameland ) like many other ppl. now lets hope something is goin to change soon because its inevitable.

gr from holland!
Dennis

I hope it wasn't Dennis the Menace..cheesy
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 22nd, 2009, 1:41pm

Hi Marvin,

I spotted the object defenitely far behind the pole way up in the air.
Very hard to estimate the distance to the pole.
If I had to do it again I should say pole at one km object at 2 km . However I estimate it, I did not measure it
(could'nt find the damn pole either on google earth).

Quincy, I don't know a Dennis who lives near Petten, I know a Dennis who lives in Groningen.
But most important I don't know anything about 15 people who are claiming also have seen something.
Though would be nice for me and the story smiley
I'dd like to meet them .
Only me and my wife were at the canal.

Regards

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 22nd, 2009, 3:00pm

on Apr 22nd, 2009, 12:44pm, Quincy wrote:
User Image




Using your data for distance to the mast (604m):

The object would be about 1376 meters away (at 1.8 meters in size) with an angular width of .07503 degrees.

The field of view is 4.5 in the Exif. This sounds "more" better. wink



Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 22nd, 2009, 3:44pm

@Rudd, in this business, you will find people anxious to help a story, not realizing they hurt it it. I saw Jeebee asking to meet him or contact him. Maybe he get something..People love basking in the sunshine of others.
Just my impression of that.

If the thing was huge I am sure more would have seen it over that the burgviotbrug area..its more populated and traffic, and canal with ships and bridge..same even with town on next km, but a regular kite, not much attention paid is what happenned.

So that gives 6.8 ft in American units..
Marv we can get closer but that really does do it. You had used 6 ft and I used seven ft, and now real data shows that.

I am small in stature so he looked like a pretty big guy Thats why I used 7 .hahaha, on Katters pic. That was very helpful here..
Thanx Katter.
I wish SPF33 tell me what service he used to see the pole. Its the only one there and they space those about every couple of miles.Only certain number of municipalities got those. Those boys are so meticulous..Take them fishing with you Ruud! jk...smiley

Good stuff guys.
Thanx for not giving up Ruud!





Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 22nd, 2009, 7:00pm

I say everyone take a well deserved day off!
Maybe go fly a kite and relax a bit. cheesy Recharge the mind and soul.

The next kite sighting ain't gonna stand a chance! grin

Anyone know how/if Jeebee told his audience(s) what the object most likely is? Nah, silly me. embarassed

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 22nd, 2009, 8:12pm

Jeebee can get a busload of nuns and Linda a priest with a duet of singing altar boys. It won't change whats happened. What I suggest is he get as far away from Earthfiles as possible. He knows by now what the scoop is. I am sure from all the emails she got saying fake, she chose a Dutch engineer in China accusing The US of Spying on Holland.., when they have dozens surveillance satellites that can read and hear just about everything. Why send a kite. ..same unabated speculation, and then that other one sending in of course her favorite item..a cropcircle.
Another line to add to the list of accomplishments at UFO.watchdog's..hall of infamy..




Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 22nd, 2009, 8:27pm

Oh dear, I fear I have missed something. Drat! I'll have to go back to Earthfiles and get caught up on the silliness.

Jeebee is not going to get anywhere with his "philosophical approach" until he learns the difference between the process of consciousness causing reality to happen, and a dime-a-dozen denial trip. If denial created reality, we'd live in a mess crazier than any of us can imagine!

Here is an interesting point to ponder: Most established Ufologists, Fortean researchers, ghost hunters, sasquatch researchers, and so on, have a solid record of exposing hoaxes and misidentifications in their chosen field. It goes with the territory, and most feel it is their responsibility to keep their field from being overrun with frauds and errors. Since this kite episode has caused me to have to pay attention to LMH again, I have been trying to recall a claim, document, photo, or other "evidence" that she has exposed as bogus. I can't think of any. I find this curious. Anybody out there reading this know of an example?

OK, Katt, I'm going to take that day off. Thanks!
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 22nd, 2009, 8:51pm

Its incredible, I don't think so..somewhere she made a total 180 degree turn from her emmy days..and just went..out there is all I can say. Anyone that cannot recognize an error or mistake holds the movement back imo.
I try to rationalize, and say..we need eccentric people..we need wacky ideas..to prevent conformity and homogeneous thinking..keep things alive and going and creative....but to never say thats a mistake..and help others from repeating same ..goes too far I think..
You don't find the jewel of truth and leave it buried..then walk away.. what loses the value.. the jewel or the person..worse when one doen't understand the value of it when holding it in ones hand..

Here we have a great opportunity with Rudd..he knows what to look for, and what to do next time..Its an education for all of us. Its ufology the way it should be.

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 22nd, 2009, 9:03pm

LMH won an Emmy?! Investigative, unbiased, inovative reporting of the truth? My God, what a world of Bizarro we live in. shocked
She certainly put Susan Lucci to shame.

It must be considered poor form for sites like hers to expose fakes, frauds, crackpots and other quacks.

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 22nd, 2009, 10:11pm

LMH was once held in high esteem by the UFO community in general. One can still read comments from "mainstream" ufologists praising her work on cattle mutilations and other phenomena back in the 70s. Such praise these days is usually followed by puzzlement from the ufologist over what she has been publishing in recent years, for good reason. She was the victim of the "aviary" clowns in the 80s, and I don't think anyone realized just how much damage they did until fairly recently. Or maybe her methods were always, um, substandard and we are just now figuring it out.

In the early going when the "drones" were a hot topic, a lot of us stuck up for LMH. I did, at OMF. It soon became obvious, however, that there was something seriously wrong with her "investigation" and her techniques. Two years ago, I had a high opinion of Whitley Strieber, too, but now... not so much. I dunno what to think of him now, but I have no such ambivalence about LMH. As a scientific journalist, or whatever, she has gone off the rails.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 22nd, 2009, 11:17pm

When that man Dennis at History.coms ufo hunters blog suddenly popped up claiming to have 15 witnesses, was there, ..but he didn't talk to Ruud, I thought it was strange. Especially when Rudd said theere was no one else there, and I have gone fishing, and don't like crowds either.
It reminded me of what Jacque Vallet warned us about..groups caight up in there beliefs that will go to any measure to propagate their view, even at anothers expense.
What is striking to me, now that you mention it Double, was Rick Doty. He did damage indeed, and he is the subject of a filmaker interested in the these disinfo, misinfo tactics, that are merely tools used to great effect, by both sides. the illusion makers I think..
I saw it at circlemakers.org John Lundy I think. Interestingly, movie makers do the same thing.
, we are what we believe, and Sadly those beliefs are running like tap water, channeled in whatever direction, and spit out when necessary or no longer profitable..
Take Sony, creating a phony website. Institute for HumanContinuity and exploiting peoples fear. Slick slick website, with phony scientists pushing 2012 doomsday as fact, while getting real personal data if you want to be among those chosen to live.

http://disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/19026/2012_Institute_for_Human_Continuity_Pt_1_2/
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/19027/2012_Institute_for_Human_Continuity_Pt_2_2/

I noted cropcircle enthusiasts have schisms too..they are created by ETs, or its the ColLective conscious..and even all of the stated together.

It indeed is Bizarro world. And just about every aspect of it seems to sell.

I think here with Rudd we accomplished something good and very special.....no ufo..ok...but..maintained the preservation of individual respect and dignity..and reason. Kudos to all..If there is a PTB behind these things..They didnt win this one..
Special salute to HPO driving out there himself.to find the pole, I wish I had been there to see that! I heard on Dutch Tv, he tried to dismantle and take it with him, and police with helmets had to pry him loose.smiley
User Image
Man Claiming to be Scientist attempts to steal Siren,
Luckily some alert and responsible citizens who had been watching the mans suspicious behavior said, "we knew he was up to no good, when he put down his camera, and from nowhere pulled out a set of bolt cutters, thats when we called police. He could be a terrorist!!"
Joining in were the famous Olson Brothers twins, who succeeded in assisting the brave Petten police officers remove the highly expensive pole from the man, who was heard screaming at the officers"Its for my research, I'm from Amsterdam you country hicks, you can't do this to me!"
They promptly then proceeded to gently carry him to a waiting Van for his safety.Police are sure there may be others involved. Said Capt. Ian Bilderburger "Its a gang we believe, international in scope, that has been reported taking pictures of all kinds of telephone and power poles in America ..We never thought it would happen here in our very own Petten.


well..I exaggerated a little about the helmets and we can have fun after all...smiley




Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 23rd, 2009, 4:20pm

Brothers in arms: the digital UFO world is a little bit broader than yer conversation over here. It seems to me that Linda has a very good reason not to interfere with these pages. With respect; the discussion on the DRT pages offers more usefull stuff.
Remarkable; quite a lot of frustration over here.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 23rd, 2009, 4:36pm

That's nice. Now run along and enjoy your little fantasy world. Your friends miss you!
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 23rd, 2009, 4:59pm

Frustration? Jeebee..you really didn't say that!! hahahaha ..Did you get Dennis? you remember Dutch4truth, the 15 people who were there on vacation too at the watersnip bungalowe..Ruud said he doesn't know WTF that was about, he was alone with with his at the canal..To be honest, imo he sounded just like you!
That indeed is a sign of frustration..to make up witnesses..whether it was you or not, still phony..
but not ours..just your side because I don't think even DRT or RuuD agree with you. You and linda saying yes to each other..Good..Her and Whitley can show you how better, they have been doing it together many many years.....you are just starting.
Earthfill, Dreamon Land, and the Yeah..Suuuureline cheesy
good day!




Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 23rd, 2009, 5:34pm

Well thx; that's exact what I mean with frustration.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 23rd, 2009, 5:45pm

Just reserach any thread; Ruud may not have seen them, perhaps they were just 1,5 km away from him and looking up. Most likely not, but remember: research any thread. So try to contact a poster that was probably not there. Simple...is'nt it?
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Katterfelto on Apr 23rd, 2009, 6:00pm

on Apr 23rd, 2009, 4:20pm, Jeebee wrote:
Brothers in arms: the digital UFO world is a little bit broader than yer conversation over here. It seems to me that Linda has a very good reason not to interfere with these pages. With respect; the discussion on the DRT pages offers more usefull stuff.
Remarkable; quite a lot of frustration over here.

What you are reading here is a figment of someone's imagination. The problem is not the material but with the person who perceives it. The digital UFO world could be 1 pixel or byte.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 23rd, 2009, 6:00pm

And as for 'Sureline' (Shoreline): we had interesting conversations with Nick Pope, Stanton Friedman, Wilfried de Brouwer, Timothy Good, Nick Redfern, Paola Harris, Thomas J. Carey, Chuck Halt, Captain Ray Bowyer and many many others over the last three years. That's not too bad for a Dutch podcast. And of course we'll welcome Linda in our show. That's probably the problem Quincy: face reality...we won't invite you, too much personal attacks.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 23rd, 2009, 6:12pm

Dude, we have heard it all before, many many times. You come in here with some tired bs line, making childish assumptions about where we visit and what we think. Just what do you expect? Get over yourself. rolleyes
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 23rd, 2009, 6:19pm

DNS; the same problem, just agony and frustration. Don't you recognize the situation; posters won't come back here because of the colour of yer debate technics.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Jeebee on Apr 23rd, 2009, 6:22pm

Quite a small universe over here!
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 23rd, 2009, 6:23pm

We are frustrated with frauds and fools. You are frustrated because we are not impressed with you. Can't we call a truce? You leave us alone, and we won't go to the Drone Retard Team's place and raise a ruckus. Deal?
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 23rd, 2009, 6:25pm

on Apr 23rd, 2009, 6:22pm, Jeebee wrote:
Quite a small universe over here!


Don't make me use this!

User Image

They say it stings to no end.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 23rd, 2009, 8:47pm

This is interestingly annoying, when I just looked at views I see here over 5000 and other places less than third of that. Someone is interested in our point of views. I don't think UCB will be closing shop anytime soon.What will hurt a site is BS and getting caught with BS and still denying it.
Now, no one said your site is bad. But it becomes bad when you are confronted with same data and opinions from both sides that say this most likely a kite, and you say....no Linda is right its a secret spy drone....and everyone else is crazy or narrow minds. And don't tell your audience. That very bad. You are not a bad man, I can tell that, but you make bad mistake here..What we suggest would help you you not hurt you. and your audience will trust you. It takes a couple of bad mistakes like this..to get a bad reputation. Sorry you think I attack you as person..One day, you will see we gave you the best advice in world..I promise..Since you have been busy going to so many sites, tell me one that find this is not a kite, but something much more important. Ask Linda to trust you and release the evidence she kept herself about the drones. Say Linda, I believe, plus I'm Dutch, release it to us we treat it better....! See what she does..Or Take it to ATS or TheParacast.com, who just finished exposing a guy bill nellis (ck spelling)doing fraud for 50 years.
First time done right on a Podcast. All Art bell had to do was google his name before he came on show like this..Bill Nellis Fraud...and it would have popped up.dozens of scams plus arrest warrants..but they didn't...missed the real facts..on purpose..imo.They can help a criminal, why not a hoaxter..its entertainment..
Here you deny the facts and joined Earth Circus.
You said you like to entertain, and in a way you are, but the act is very old..we need new show..new act with truth.
Truth can be more entertaining than fiction, if you are good player.
try it..you might like it.



Come on Jeebee..you know better...come on ..You know we have you wrapped around our little pinkies cheesy


Good news autodesk 2010 free fully functional trial available now!
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/oc/offer/form?siteID=123112&id=12726893&ch=ON&src=PTRC&mktvar001=95017&mktvar002=&CMP=&rid

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 23rd, 2009, 9:00pm

laugh Dude's about two years late to the party, you'd think he'd be busy with all that homework. Shoot, his buddy Numbers had his accounts up and running a couple of weeks before the first drone images hit C2C. Now there was a bs artist who was prepared!
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 23rd, 2009, 11:21pm

We would rather have you as a friend Jeebee than someone who felt attacked. But we have been on the whole drama much longer than you.
You had nick pope on and here is what he said in a letter to a Poster here Mike,
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=drone&num=1188266784&action=display&start=1305

,about the drones. You would not have him on unless you felt his opinion was important in whatever else you had him on for.
I'm aware of the whole Isaac/CARET/Chad/drone saga, though I haven't
followed it in detail, because of the pressure of other commitments. I
can't recall any witness reports that match the drones, either in the MoD's
UFO case files or in the UFO literature. My gut feeling is that this is a
sophisticated hoax, possibly (as has been suggested) as part of a viral
marketing campaign, or as an initiative by somebody wanting to showcase
their skills in this area (in the same way as a filmmaker used the
Haiti/Dominican Republic videos to showcase his CGI skills). Other
possibilities include commercial gain and it will be interesting to see if a
book and/or a DVD appears at some stage, or if 'Isaac' breaks cover and goes
on the UFO lecture circuit. It's also possible that the whole story is a
set-up by skeptical ufologists using it as a way to study the psychology of
belief.

I won't have time to join the discussion, but you're free to quote my
remarks above.

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes,

Nick Pope

That was in Oct 2007, before Alienware came out with its Isaac marketing on laptops, Before The Sherwoods started marketing their connection to Cropcircles, like Linda, Before terminator used the drones in its movies..but same month!
Are all these people independendent operators? no..they all do dvds tours, make movies with Warners, SciFi channel, Ufo hunters...they are behind the scenes working cooperatively and collectively feeding on us. It is as Nick Pope said it was in his possibilities.

So you can stay in business and cooperate with their program, or you can make a break, and change business strategy to join those to clear the air for the real mysteries, of which there are many many many to have shows about..and be a real source of important and authoritative material for everyone.
That is up to you.
Its your show.

I know you will give it thought.
Regards


Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 23rd, 2009, 11:33pm

OK, Quincy, but if he craps on the floor again, he's your puppy. wink
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 23rd, 2009, 11:56pm

hahaha, you are crazy , I love you my brother, but Nooo puppies, I have cat . I hate cats, and I think he hates me..but had to take this one from shelter, then they removed its testicles with a scalpel, ..sad..but its mandatory here by law. Birth control, Noodling Neutering, nice sounding words, they call it but my friend liked it though...Caught mice for her. She left him with me.. He has not caught one mouse! Wants food from cans, like people..and then..Just sits there licking its tail, and then tries to kiss me, unbelievable. I can't stand it! But i did get attached..and do care..I'm a sucker for animals in helpless predicaments.

I just laid what the stakes were for Jeebee. Not us. We don't have radio business, but we have other business and life experience and know the issues here very well..It's obvious to me the drone business is still in business and someone's paying out to keep it in business. Perhaps as Pope said, to promote a bigger event than the drones themselves. The marketing via Halcyon to Warner/Fox enterprises and use of warners off the shelf material like fonts in Serenity, past affiliations and product use and distribution, like in other movies, with players like AW, concurrent timing of releases, etc are small indicators. It always seems to come back to the same people..

By the way I have been to ATS, over my old posts,had me scratching head and curious.
Some of the old stuff is very very interesting.
I am returning to that thread for more..its not the hoax labeled one its the viral one.



Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Kenray on Apr 24th, 2009, 11:59am

anyone notice the symmetry in that new texas photo?
User Image

Cloaking device on the fritz?
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 24th, 2009, 12:09pm

grin grin grin grin Good one!
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 24th, 2009, 1:08pm

hahaha, looks like just you right now Ken but never underestimate the power of suggestion! I'll name that the Fritz Drone, a triangle and a clown hat are just as logical.smiley
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by DrDil on Apr 25th, 2009, 07:15am

When is a Drone not a Drone?

Cheers. wink
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on Apr 25th, 2009, 11:46am

Very nice, Dr! You have a steady hand with that scalpel. I'm glad you are recording all of this, er, *activity* in a concise, accessible way. Excellent journalism!
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Marvin on Apr 27th, 2009, 06:53am

on Apr 25th, 2009, 07:15am, DrDil wrote:
When is a Drone not a Drone?

Cheers. wink



I saw right through that, DrDil. wink
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on Apr 27th, 2009, 08:30am

Thanx Nev for being the first to spot the waldof too . Amazing eyes you have!

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by neveleeleven on Apr 28th, 2009, 02:48am

Thanks Ms Weaver, I exercise my eyes often, so they get a good workout. Even my third one.

I have to thank Ruud though, he sent me 3 images from his camera in an e-mail, confirming that all the EXIF data was natural. Two of his images had an identical "smudge" that confirmed they were the same camera, but wasn't from the same day as the kite photo. This third image doesn't have a smudge, but it has a cloudy sky, and was taken the same day as the kite.

It also included a picture of the motor home they used on the day of their trip. However I have more questions that I haven't asked...

http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0718a.jpg

I see a car, and a motor-home, 1 tent, 2 bikes, and 7 chairs. Can't find any fishing poles though...

Looks like a lot of EXTRA people were with him, and not just him and his wife. They might have even been there multiple days in a row.

I'm curious about the "other people" and their opinion of what they saw.

There could be another explanation for this, like it wasn't his campsite, or motor-home, etc..

..anyway... grin

Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Ruud on Apr 28th, 2009, 11:06am

Ha neveleeleven.

That is my parents motorhome smiley
My sister an brother in law were also there.
Parents were cooking, sister and brother in law were playing card or something like that, they doný like to fish.
Anyway they did not see what we saw, because they were not fishing. smiley

Regards Ruud
issac figure
Post by JerryClinton on May 5th, 2009, 09:49am

gravity magnetism amplification device
« Reply #1496 on: Today at 10:42am » QuoteModifyDelete Post

I think it has some kind of gravity accelerator using the amplification magnetics to pull and push the ship if you could channel and amplify magnetism or gravitational pull and push by hitting a button you could probably govern the acceleration of the ship this is my theory I made a theory like this before I ever seen this diagram by isaac but now it gives me a better look

Using a similar technology like this I believe We can create teleportation through molecular gravital magnetism through high signal channeling using the gravity of other planet
s to target human compounds and accelerate them through signal

other
Post by JerryClinton on May 5th, 2009, 09:58am

when I think of alien technology you have to think of the background what resources on there planet to they have to work with is like or unlike our own can determine the compounds of the ship what kind of molecular structure of a e.t. it is made up of mostly hydrogen or what determining the structure of the specimen can change the everything we know about teleportation there structure could easily molecularly make the compounds easier to teleport and also we would always be at the risk of foreign viruses
huh
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Double Nought Spy on May 7th, 2009, 2:57pm

User Image

Good luck... That's exactly what I have been trying to tell these knuckleheads for two years now. They just don't get it.
Re: Drone-Like UFO Photographed in Holland, 2007
Post by Quincy on May 7th, 2009, 3:08pm

Thats right My little furry Numbnutz. I can see the Admiral has been taking extra good care of you.
Thats why its important to cover ones mouth with hands or, if available.. duct tape, when one sneezes and always wash ones hands.!! These foreign viruses are something else. Not that I subscribe to the "germ theory", of course, after all, following our friends across the imaginary divide reasoning, , the Jury is still out on that! I'm with you!
rolleyes