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 sticky  Author  Topic: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH  (Read 12042 times)
Marvin
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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #585 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 1:15pm »

Since I do not have tons of extra time, I have concentrating on the Ty Big Basin photos. Of all the drone photos, in the eyes of an novice, this series of photos appear to be the easiest to manipulate.

It appears that Ty sent in “photographs” (on photo paper) according to the statement made by LMH. I quote her:

“June 17, 2007 Big Basin, California - In yesterday's post office mail, I received twelve more images of the latest, more menacing-looking dragonfly-shaped aerial "drone," along with a letter mailed on June 11, 2007, from an eyewitness named Ty. He had also emailed me on June 11, telling me that he was sending photographs he had taken while bicycling with a group of riders near Saratoga, California, in Big Basin.”

http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1270&category=Environment

Therefore, it has been assumed that the photos were taken with a non-digital camera. I believe that is not the case.

If you look at the high-res photo, which we can assume was scanned by LMH (or her staff… hey Linda, clean you scanner or was the “dust debris” already in the photo?), we can see parallel lines through the feelers (on the top of the drone), through the blue colored edges of the drone components and through some of the drone components themselves.

According to some experts I have spoken with, these lines are generated when you enlarge a digital picture. Why are the lines there? It has something to do with how the CCD receives, processes the image and records it.

If LMH scanned the photo and did not over enlarge it, these lines should not be visible and a 100% enlargement and they are in the high-res version. Therefore, number one, you have to assume that the original camera used to capture the drone was a digital one.

Number two, the odd thing that was noticed is on the trees. What little of the trees that can be seen in the high-res photo, do not show any parallel lines… even in the blue areas. It is almost as if the drone has been over enlarged and the trees have not. Without the whole high-res photo, one can not be conclusive, but it opens the possibility that the drone may have been pasted in to the photo (and is not really there, even though I thought it was).

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Does any one have another explanation?
« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2007, 1:55pm by Marvin » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #586 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 1:26pm »

on Sep 13th, 2007, 5:23pm, Gort wrote:
from (onthefence omf)

Now we're getting somewhere. Are you saying that you have proof that "Arthur" and "Jack" hoaxed the drones/Isaac issue?

You mention FDDL, is Arthur the one listed here:
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/491227.html

Fill in the details please.


So, if this Arthur -- the UT professor - from this website is the one who is being accused of hoaxing this (which I really doubt) it is interesting nonetheless that on his personal website (you can google him to find it) he has his "favorite website" button which comes up as Whitley Streiber's Dreamland -- and he also has a dream journal on his site with many dreams similar to those posted on this casebook. So, he is someone that knows the UFO community (possibly) and/or it could be that he is just pretending to have been the hoaxer, or whoever READER is, has the wrong person.... either way, where is the proof.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #587 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 1:28pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 1:15pm, Marvin wrote:
Does any one have another explanation?


Marvin,

Can you illustrate the parallel lines you speak of? It was never said what kind of camera Ty used. It could be digital or film. LMH has stated she received 12 5x7 prints along with the typed letter from Ty B. So the hi rez photo could be considered an enlargement. I guess it all depends on how you view it on your monitor. Parallel lines could be explained by anomalies with LMH's scanner or Ty's printer.

One thing you should consider in all this are Steven's photos which captured the same object in the same location on the same day from a different vantage point. How would that figure into a fake Ty photo theory?
« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2007, 1:29pm by Latitude » User IP Logged

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Marvin
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #588 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 1:32pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 12:44pm, Nodnunk wrote:
Yes, PDT is 7 hours behind Zulu.
00:00 Zulu (May 17) is the same as 24:00 (May 16).
So 24:00 minus 7 hours is 17:00 (May 16) PDT.
Agree?



It is cornfussing, I know.

Yes, 00:00 Zulu would be a day ahead (then minus 7 hours would be 5:00 pm the 16th on the west coast).

God save the Queen.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #589 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 2:32pm »

Latitude. Honestly, I never said anything about Reader should be believed without proof. I think it is fair enough that someone is given time to explain themselves is it not?
Reader has made some very valid arguments and observations in the past, so I have no reason currently not to allow him that time, even if he is being a little evasive. What is the rush?

(Note: I started writing this some hours ago but had to leave it because I went out. On return, reader has explained himself, and I see what he was doing. My above comments stand, and he did explain his posts... see)

As for evidence of it being real, well all I can say is that it is evidence without any substantiation or verification. So such hopes should not be pinned upon it. You have to understand, that no one who believes that it could be a hoax pin hopes on that. The hope for anyone is that it is real, and this whole silly tension between the two camps shouldn't exist.

If some light can be shed on this case that leads in one direction or the other, then everyone should welcome it.

There is no enlightenment to be gained from a lie. To invest such hopes and dreams without verification is detrimental to the study of this entire phenomenon. To believe this is real, is only so much a gut feeling as to believe it is a hoax, and the given 'evidence' is proof of nothing without verification. I don't see how you can argue otherwise!

...'what can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence.'

Quote- Derren Brown.



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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #590 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 2:32pm »

Marvin,

I see the anomaly you are pointing out. It's a moire pattern and it is real bad in the low res scans. I think it is a distortion induced by LMH's scanner. If she is using a cheap scanner that would do it. If she is I hope she has those prints professionally scanned or better yet have the negatives scanned.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #591 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 2:39pm »

Saladfingers,

That last post is very good. I agree with most of it. I'm in no rush to judge Reader. If you read my last reply on the subject to Gort you will see in the last sentence I said we will have to wait and see. I thought it was Gort who was rushing to believe Reader is correct. Certainly sys_config is already convinced Reader is correct.
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Marvin
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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #592 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 2:39pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 1:28pm, Latitude wrote:
Marvin,

Can you illustrate the parallel lines you speak of? It was never said what kind of camera Ty used. It could be digital or film. LMH has stated she received 12 5x7 prints along with the typed letter from Ty B. So the hi rez photo could be considered an enlargement. I guess it all depends on how you view it on your monitor. Parallel lines could be explained by anomalies with LMH's scanner or Ty's printer.

One thing you should consider in all this are Steven's photos which captured the same object in the same location on the same day from a different vantage point. How would that figure into a fake Ty photo theory?


I will have to wait till this weekend to post pictures, long story (we are having carpeting installed and my computer is taken apart). embarassed

I am not ready to say what is okay or not, I am just sharing what I have heard and then getting feedback on it here. I will get some examples together this weekend unless someone beats me to it.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #593 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 2:41pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 2:39pm, Marvin wrote:
I will have to wait till this weekend to post pictures, long story (we are having carpeting installed and my computer is taken apart). embarassed

I am not ready to say what is okay or not, I am just sharing what I have heard and then getting feedback on it here. I will get some examples together this weekend unless someone beats me to it.


It ok Marvin, I figure out what you meant. It was my fault for skimming over your post too quickly. Look at the low res pics. The moire pattern is all over the drone and in the tree branches too.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #594 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 2:50pm »

Oh ok, sorry Lat. I just got in, and saw that post still on my screen not sent, so I thought I'd best get it finished and up.

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #595 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 3:57pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 2:32pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Latitude. Honestly, I never said anything about Reader should be believed without proof. I think it is fair enough that someone is given time to explain themselves is it not?
Reader has made some very valid arguments and observations in the past, so I have no reason currently not to allow him that time, even if he is being a little evasive. What is the rush?

(Note: I started writing this some hours ago but had to leave it because I went out. On return, reader has explained himself, and I see what he was doing. My above comments stand, and he did explain his posts... see)

As for evidence of it being real, well all I can say is that it is evidence without any substantiation or verification. So such hopes should not be pinned upon it. You have to understand, that no one who believes that it could be a hoax pin hopes on that. The hope for anyone is that it is real, and this whole silly tension between the two camps shouldn't exist.

If some light can be shed on this case that leads in one direction or the other, then everyone should welcome it.

There is no enlightenment to be gained from a lie. To invest such hopes and dreams without verification is detrimental to the study of this entire phenomenon. To believe this is real, is only so much a gut feeling as to believe it is a hoax, and the given 'evidence' is proof of nothing without verification. I don't see how you can argue otherwise!

...'what can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence.'

Quote- Derren Brown.





Salad, your Derren Brown would do far better to include Plato's cave allegory in his discourse.

Let me argue your point that what we have needs proof:

What we have are real photos of drones posted to the internet, real witnesses, one real whistle blower named Isaac, real copies of documents, real scanned pictures of alien artifacts and one hell of a real diagram with alien symbols.

That's reality Salad as it stands now.. It's up to you to prove different !
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #596 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 4:39pm »

[quote author=tomi01uk]


Let me argue your point that what we have needs proof:

What we have are real photos of drones posted to the internet, real witnesses, one real whistle blower named Isaac, real copies of documents, real scanned pictures of alien artifacts and one hell of a real diagram with alien symbols.

That's reality Salad as it stands now.. It's up to you to prove different !
[/quote]

let me help you with that

"What we have are what are claimed to be real photos of drones posted to the internet, real witnesses, who have disappeared, one real whistle blower named Isaac, who has also gone missing, real copies of documents, that may or may not be of real documents, real scanned pictures of alien artifacts, that no one has really touched and one hell of a real diagram with what have been called alien symbols, by one of the missing witnesses.

So far you have the extraordinary claims part of the equation without the extraordinary proof side.

All of these pages of dialog have not produced any proof so far.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #597 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 4:53pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 4:39pm, brm1 wrote:
So far you have the extraordinary claims part of the equation without the extraordinary proof side.

All of these pages of dialog have not produced any proof so far.


Sure, it's true we have extraordinary claims, well not just claims but we also have what appears to be very realistic photos and scans of very realistic documents that do support those claims.

On the flip side, the side that says none of this is real, we have only claims and absolutely no supporting evidence.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #598 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 5:24pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 3:57pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Salad, your Derren Brown would do far better to include Plato's cave allegory in his discourse.

Let me argue your point that what we have needs proof:

What we have are real photos of drones posted to the internet, real witnesses, one real whistle blower named Isaac, real copies of documents, real scanned pictures of alien artifacts and one hell of a real diagram with alien symbols.

That's reality Salad as it stands now.. It's up to you to prove different !


Tomi, I like you, and enjoy talking to you, but I just don't see how you can say such things.

It may all appear real, but nothing can be verified in any way! As posted before, the actual reality is that these items, photos and witnesses are being presented as real, but with nothing to verify that they are real. Not a single thing to verify them. You can believe they are real, but I'm sorry, it just does not make it true!

It is great to imagine that every word, every photo is true, and how amazing and fantastic, but I cannot, and will never subscribe to that without a single verification of any of the presented data.

You are entitled to believe them of course, and i do not knock that. I'm not attacking you, it is just that I have serious issue with your lack of need for proof. It is a way of thinking i can never subscribe to. But i can share your wish for it to be true.


Think I have repeated some words here too many times... a few beers do that to me smiley
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #599 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 5:49pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 5:24pm, Saladfingers wrote:
It may all appear real, but nothing can be verified in any way! As posted before, the actual reality is that these items, photos and witnesses are being presented as real, but with nothing to verify that they are real. Not a single thing to verify them. You can believe they are real, but I'm sorry, it just does not make it true!


True, but every person, including yourself that either eludes or claims that this is a hoax cannot and has not provided 100% proof positive. Not only that...

Everyone that DOES believe, in several forums full of some of the brightest, intelligent and knowledgeable people around have pecked and poked and analyzed until our eyes fell out, and have not found 100% proof positive that it is hoaxed.

So the reality is... none of the scoffers have proved it is a hoax, and all of the scrutiny has not found any tangible reason to believe that it is a hoax. We have not found any mistakes. there are some questionable things that we have gone over, but no proof of error.

I am not a mathmetician, but the odds are in the believers favor here.
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