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travex
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xx Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Thread started on: Jun 28th, 2017, 6:42pm »

The title implies that there are also pictures which show objects that can be explained as rare natural phenomena or some artifacts and that there are also deliberate hoaxes. And that all implies other opposites, particularly EASY and DIFFICULT. Here is a nice photo

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that actually implies neither until the moment when someone asks this question: When was the photo taken?

Well, that's EASY. The photo was taken at night.

But if the question refers to the particular month and day things transfer right away to the DIFFICULT category. Or does anyone think it is easy? Well we don't see any snow, but the question didn't mention a season.

Even if you exclude the winter months, the chances that you get the month and day right are way too high.

But you don't need to take a completely random choice. Here is an example: How many windows do you see in the top floor?

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I see 6 windows.

And how many windows do you see now?

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With that addition there are 14 windows. Getting the idea? The number of windows - those two counts - can be easily converted into the month and day. Since there are no 14 months in the year - just 12 - there can be no mistake. So the date when the picture was taken was 6/14, or June 14.

Aaah, those ET's - always on standby ready to assist mankind in answering difficult questions...

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The whole picture looks like this

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and also the additional info comes from Swamprat's post here:
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&num=1488817914&start=15

There is a note at the end of the post - note made by MUFON - saying that the photo hasn't been examined by an expert and so it's status REAL/HOAX is not known yet.

Maybe we can add our two cents to the process of telling things apart...

Note that there is something a bit unusual about the photo. People usually focus on the object of interest, but in this case the UFO seems to be well above the center of the picture. You would be surprised, but there is actually reason for that. Take a look:

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You can see that the "make sure" diagonal cross-hairs of symmetry intersect the corners of four windows. (A rectangle has four sides.) You can also define those four windows as windows B, A, T, H - in case there is an additional question that asks for the name of the place that the photo was taken. This is an incredible coincidence! But is it? If it's not, then there has to be a purpose to it. As you see, the window corners make a 90 degree angle, and that's what the aliens want you to consider. In other words, they point toward an intersection of two lines that form a 90 degree (right) angle. Just mark two most luminous parts of the pic and you get the "secret" right angle.

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Now you see that the intersection occurs in the middle of Window [2, 2] (2nd window from top/left). Remember that the photo was taken on 6-14-2017 at 22:45. If you scroll up to the previous pic, you see 4 windows that have their corners intersected, but there are 5 points of intersections (those little red squares) and that count makes the minutes - 22:45

How can the aliens achieve such an incredible precision?

Well, the neural implants that they stick to the brain of Homo sapiens works very well. The aliens basically take over the implanted person, which responds by doing exactly what is needed.

But that means the photo could be easily photoshopped as well!

Yes. The command would come saying "Let's make a nice hoax of a UFO." The recipient thinks it is his own idea and complies. This guy
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/photos/000/116/11606.jpg
could tell you more about it. (Yep, yep. Always on standby to assist mankind in answering difficult questions...)

Here is something MUFON will probably check on our own terms.

User Image

An imaging expert would compare the amount of light dispersion. If the UFO image was photoshopped in, there would be some dispersion inconsistency.

Here is an example of what a white bright light produces.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/41/38/ea/4138ea56aa84d695b5182ec4934638f1.jpg

The conclusion may not be encouraging for some UFO theologians: Some proven UFO hoaxes can be actually real events.
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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #1 on: Jun 28th, 2017, 9:20pm »

A few comments:

The picture looks to be a crop and not the complete original image. Because of this trying to draw any conclusions about the number of windows is speculative. It is quite possible there are windows to the right that were cropped out. This brings into question the 6 & 14.

The upper set of windows (6) is being grouped into the set below (8) to get the 14. It could just as well be grouped into the set of windows below (7-8?) to come up with 21 or 22. Or they could be separated from the top set to get 15 or 16. This would then give a date of 6/21, 6/22, 6/15 or 6/16.

I see 8 windows on the UFO(?). Not sure what their significance is to your ideas.

I suspect the UFO is positioned somewhat top center of the image is because of aesthetics during cropping - natural thing to do. The center lines crossing over window edges could be coincidence - because there are coincidences in life. I do not find it unusual that building elements are geometrically related to others because that is how things are designed.

My initial impressions of this UFO(?) is that it could be a reflection of a light fixture on a window. There is a suspicious vertical line at the top of it. No other reports of what would seem to be a quite obvious and unusual object over a populated area?

Without the original unaltered image it is all speculation and some of it wild. This kind of MUFON report and lack of details often is counterproductive.
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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #2 on: Jun 29th, 2017, 03:48am »

on Jun 28th, 2017, 9:20pm, GhostofEd wrote:
A few comments:

The picture looks to be a crop and not the complete original image. Because of this trying to draw any conclusions about the number of windows is speculative. It is quite possible there are windows to the right that were cropped out. This brings into question the 6 & 14.

The picture doesn't look to be cropped to me. You apparently don't understand the alien intervention: what matters is what appears in the MUFON web pages - those are the "official" pics to work with.

Quote:
The upper set of windows (6) is being grouped into the set below (8) to get the 14. It could just as well be grouped into the set of windows below (7-8?) to come up with 21 or 22. Or they could be separated from the top set to get 15 or 16. This would then give a date of 6/21, 6/22, 6/15 or 6/16.

I had to exclude for brevity some issues that need to be considered. For example the 3x2 matrix that I added to one of the pics.

U F O
T W O

resolves in a 4x3 matrix

U F O
T W O
T O P
R O W

with the meaning of the two top rows of windows. That excludes the first floor windows from the count. The third column O=O alignment in the 2x3 matrix is a reference to the word that is particular and the word is "flOOr."

Quote:
I see 8 windows on the UFO(?). Not sure what their significance is to your ideas.

I never mentioned the number of windows visible in the UFO. The windows are initially in a "descriptive mode" - they are just windows and their inclusion is meant to create a windows-windows link with terrestrial objects. Surely later, when one goes into details and asks the question what is the logical link between 6 and 14, (between the month and the day), such link can be found on a chalkboard somewhere at junior high:

6 + x = 14

You look out of the classroom windows, see a UFO with 8 windows and so you can confidently solve the equation:
x = 8.

Quote:
I suspect the UFO is positioned somewhat top center of the image is because of aesthetics during cropping - natural thing to do.

You again mention cropping without any hint that the process actually took place. MUFON folks would be offended if you suggested that they crop UFO pics according to "aesthetics." No, MUFON's pic database is not considered by the staff an art gallery and it will not adjust pictures accordingly.

Quote:
The center lines crossing over window edges could be coincidence - because there are coincidences in life. I do not find it unusual that building elements are geometrically related to others because that is how things are designed.

Yes, coincidences sometimes do occur, but you completely excluded from your judgement the time in minutes - those 45 minutes past 10 p.m. where 4 refers to the number of intersected windows and 5 to the points of intersection. How do you think the time of a UFO appearance is designed? It cannot be random, otherwise UFO sightings wouldn't make much sense - it would defy their purpose. There is a mind behind the UFO sighting design, which is vastly superior to ours, as the overall circumstances clearly point to.

Quote:
My initial impressions of this UFO(?) is that it could be a reflection of a light fixture on a window. There is a suspicious vertical line at the top of it. No other reports of what would seem to be a quite obvious and unusual object over a populated area?


The "suspicious vertical line" could be caused by a rooftop reflector or some other light source. I don't believe that the mental capacity of the person who took the picture is so low that he wouldn't recognize his own ceiling light? That person said that the UFO was gone after he took the pic. So he turns off the light, looks out and the UFO is gone, right? If he was that dumb, he wouldn't be able to operate his own camera. Btw, UFOs are not solid objects, justs pecial images which can be seen only from a specific direction if the situation calls for it

But in the case where the pic is a deliberate hoax really involving an overhead light fixture, the idea to make the hoax didn't originate in the hoaxer's head as the decades long evidence with similar pics confirms. These hoaxes feature spacial arrangements that the hoaxers are not aware of and when those are mathematically analyzed, they create a situation where the probability of no coincidence is way too high. But the math behind it is not easy at all.

Quote:
Without the original unaltered image it is all speculation and some of it wild. This kind of MUFON report and lack of details often is counterproductive.

Now you again believe that there is an unaltered image somewhere. What makes you believe that it is so?

Here is a something that wasn't meant to be a UFO hoax.
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/AGA6AF/glass-window-reflection-of-memorial-church-in-harvard-yard-harvard-AGA6AF.jpg

The features can't be compiled no matter what.




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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #3 on: Jun 29th, 2017, 09:08am »

on Jun 29th, 2017, 03:48am, travex wrote:
The picture doesn't look to be cropped to me. You apparently don't understand the alien intervention: what matters is what appears in the MUFON web pages - those are the "official" pics to work with.

The pictures prior posted here are not the originals from the MUFON report. If one goes to the MUFON site @ http://www.mufon.com/live-ufo-map.html and search on case # 84387 you can download the original image which contains the EXIF data. If that has been manipulated I can't tell. However, if the "official" picture is from MUFON, the cross hairs give a different outcome. (This is uncropped scaled because the original resolution is too large for the forum page width.)

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My opinion is this is a hoaxed picture showing a reflection of a lighted object in a dark room behind a window. One characteristic that stands out (when viewing the high res original) is that the sharpness and focus of the UFO is more representative of a close object (reflection?) and not of a distance object. I suppose it could also be a suspended model in front of the camera i.e., not a reflection. Regardless the too sharp observation should still apply.

Another thing that strikes me is that the UFO color is similar to the sky. This suggests to me a translucent object perhaps lit with white light. I think this is consistent with how a reflection would look.

If these possible issues (sharpness & translucency) are incorrect I'd like to know why.
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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #4 on: Jun 29th, 2017, 10:13am »

Complex question and answer, Travex, I'll have a go in a moment. But first, reading through above posts, I think I'll agree with GhostofEd (with one notable exception, I have seen no life form to date wearing a golden mane with more flair!) for the simplest of reasons (holding off on all the numerical stuff and getting into alien minds and interactions): the apparent line by which the UFO is 'suspended'. Light fixture reflected in window is a simple earthly explanation, no need to deal with extraordinary things like True UFOs and the like.

At least not in this case. Whoever took that photo must have recognized their own living room lamp as it showed up reflected in the window and the photo through the window. This qualifies as a hoax imo.

What constitutes a 'real' UFO picture? This example is a real photo (pending exif verification), yet including intentional(?) misrepresentation of the nature of the object photographed. Hoax / falsehood. It is so obvious, that it may be INTENTIONALLY OBVIOUS, meant as speculatively the starting point for a nice discussion of UFO hoaxes smiley.

More generally, anyone shooting a pic of sumtin decidedly funny in the sky is making a "real" UFO picture. If there is an earthly explanation for the object seen/recorded, it can be considered identified (as non-alien/ET) after all.

Any photo of strange flying things which defies all earthly explanations (even after rigorous scientific analysis) may be categorized as showing an UNKNOWN or True UFO. Which might turn out as Santa's Sleigh for all I know.

BUT WHATEVER WE EVENTUALLY DISCOVER IT TO BE, IT IS REAL.


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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #5 on: Jun 29th, 2017, 10:17am »

Sighh....... I'm sorry I ever posted that picture...... sad
« Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2017, 10:18am by Swamprat » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #6 on: Jun 29th, 2017, 10:34am »

on Jun 29th, 2017, 10:17am, Swamprat wrote:
Sighh....... I'm sorry I ever posted that picture...... sad


No need. It's all good Swamp...
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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #7 on: Jun 29th, 2017, 11:09am »

SWAMP,

"Sighh....... I'm sorry I ever posted that picture"

NO PROBLEM MON...CLEARLY REVEALS THE CASEBOOK VETTING PROCESS REMAINS ALIVE AND WELL. LET'S MARK THIS UP AS BAITING THE FIELD FOR INPUT grin

WE'VE ALL MISSED THAT/THOSE GHOSTLY OBSERVATIONS cool

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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #8 on: Jun 29th, 2017, 3:52pm »

on Jun 29th, 2017, 09:08am, GhostofEd wrote:
The pictures prior posted here are not the originals from the MUFON report. If one goes to the MUFON site @ http://www.mufon.com/live-ufo-map.html and search on case # 84387 you can download the original image which contains the EXIF data. If that has been manipulated I can't tell. However, if the "official" picture is from MUFON, the cross hairs give a different outcome. (This is uncropped scaled because the original resolution is too large for the forum page width.)

User Image

My opinion is this is a hoaxed picture showing a reflection of a lighted object in a dark room behind a window. One characteristic that stands out (when viewing the high res original) is that the sharpness and focus of the UFO is more representative of a close object (reflection?) and not of a distance object. I suppose it could also be a suspended model in front of the camera i.e., not a reflection. Regardless the too sharp observation should still apply.

Another thing that strikes me is that the UFO color is similar to the sky. This suggests to me a translucent object perhaps lit with white light. I think this is consistent with how a reflection would look.

If these possible issues (sharpness & translucency) are incorrect I'd like to know why.


That's it! This version looks like the usual original shots from the hoaxers under "the influence." Even if you personally draw the cross-hair diagonals, you may not realize the unique points of intersection, the first being the street light, which is intersected in the MIDDLE by the left diagonal.

Follow the diagonals... You see that the alleged UFO cannot descend any further because it happens to be wedged in between the lines. Just run a computer model with the two objects under similar circumstances and measure the success/failure ratio...

Once the left diagonal crosses the street light "circle" in the MIDDLE, you are supposed to think in terms of "MIDDLE" and look around with respect to the features of UFO. You see a building with three rows of windows, so you consider the MIDDLE floor, especially when the street light is in the horizontal agreement with it. You count the windows, then count the visible windows of the UFO image. The count agrees! 8=8. You shouldn't fail to see that the right diagonal divides the visible windows in the MIDDLE floor in the MIDDLE, so the count is actually 4+4 windows.

Now it all depends on the NIQ of the viewer, where NIQ means the Natural Ignorance Quotient, how far anyone gets and if he or she can recover the link between the date of reporting and the number of windows.

When the crop circles started to appear in southern England, the folks who attended the phenomenon noticed that a disproportionate number of the circles positioned themselves the way that the tramline appeared right in the MIDDLE of the circle. They concluded that there must be something intelligent behind the new and unexpected phenomenon - something capable of seeing the field features, such as the tramlines. Unfortunately, the research disintegrated following the UFO research "methodology," which basically limits itself to an activity of tossing pictures into two bins marked REAL/ NOT REAL. They have two bins in the Vatican as well, except they are marked MIRACLES/NOT MIRACLES...

This is not to say that no effort should be made to tell things apart, but that shouldn't be the terminal bus stop. The big problem is that the aliens want it that way, and so we will continue to commit crimes against common sense whenever the aliens feel like it. They seem to like the idea that we put them into a position of galactic stupidos who keep flying around the earth for no apparent reason at all. Just don't disturb the natural habitat of Homo sapiens, right?

The experts on intelligent extraterrestrial life, those PhD's at SETI, say there are no aliens around. It means that through the appeal to the authority all pics of UFO's are either hoaxes or they can be rationally explained, which makes the process of telling things apart much faster.

« Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2017, 4:06pm by travex » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #9 on: Jun 29th, 2017, 4:17pm »

on Jun 29th, 2017, 10:17am, Swamprat wrote:
Sighh....... I'm sorry I ever posted that picture...... sad

Swamprat, if you adjusted the picture (did you?) then there is hard evidence that you wear an alien neural implant that adjusts your actions. That's good, because it prevents you to screw up. But you can't rely on it the way that you get reckless, thinking that the aliens fix it for you.
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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #10 on: Jun 29th, 2017, 4:39pm »

It would have been helpful if everything related to this had been kept on the same thread.

I think more importance should be ascribed to the thread that seems to be supporting the object. probably from the cable that passes above it.

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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #11 on: Jun 30th, 2017, 4:37pm »

on Jun 28th, 2017, 9:20pm, GhostofEd wrote:
There is a suspicious vertical line at the top of it.

You bet that the hypothetical hoaxer was aware of that "suspicious vertical line" as well. The hoaxers examine their handiwork very carefully before sending their stuff to MUFON. But in this case he wouldn't fix the problem. Why?

See, the intersection points made of the window corners are not happening in the pic you've posted. That means there must be other clue to run ortho lines which intersect at the right angle in the middle of Window [2, 2], and the clue happens to be that "suspicious vertical line."

Here is a destination of the picture which enables to establish the odds of the features being a coincidence or not:

I was getting ready for bed and turning all the lights off around the flat when I looked out of my back window to discover this object hovering in the sky above the city. I quickly grabbed my phone and got a pretty decent shot before rushing to my partner and tell them what I witnessed. When we returned to look out the window, the object was gone. mufon cms #84388 (Possible Hoax)
https://ufo-signs.blogspot.com/2017/

If I were a member of an ET civilization over eight hundred million years "ahead of us," as the aliens claim, I would do the same thing: I would link the image of the alien craft with MUFON catalog case number, which, according to the quote, is 84388.

Now note that the mode (the most frequent digit) of those five digits that the number is made of is 8 - it appears three times. This count is actually included in the number right in the middle: 84[3]88. (Remember how the concept of the middle was highlighted in your version of the photo?)

But what about the next digit to the left? That 4 disputes the count; it basically "claims" that there are four 8's!

Well, we see only three 8's and that's because we don't have those big eyes like the aliens. They would look at the picture of that Bath UFO to see that there are 8 windows visible. And that's the fourth 8.

Now it's not difficult to compute the probability of the 84388 digit arrangement being just a coincidence - it is 5000 to 1. Anyone ready to bet against those odds?

Actually the odds in the face of the implication are way too low, with the implication being that the aliens can hack our mind and force a mistake in the catalog number, because you mentioned #84387 and not #84388, which is a "smart number" but very likely incorrect.

The bottom line is that we accept or reject ideas according to whether we like them or not. So the aliens can support their claims with perhaps astronomical odds and basically waste their time, or they can keep flying around for another seventy years and repeat the same thing all over again, but to no avail, because we, the speaking mammals, have created the universe to our image, to our likeness and that's it.
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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #12 on: Jun 30th, 2017, 5:07pm »

The case number from the MUFON site is 84387 not 84388.

What if aliens don't use base 10 number system?
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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #13 on: Jun 30th, 2017, 5:21pm »

ED,

..What if aliens don't use base 10 number system?..

That's why we can't communicate. They only have three fingers and one thumb.

Travex,

Does your system work in Octal ?

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xx Re: Which UFO Pictures Are "Real?"
« Reply #14 on: Jul 1st, 2017, 4:14pm »

on Jun 30th, 2017, 5:07pm, GhostofEd wrote:
The case number from the MUFON site is 84387 not 84388.

That's a strangely worded confirmation of what I already said in my post: Actually the odds in the face of the implication are way too low, with the implication being that the aliens can hack our mind and force a mistake in the catalog number, because you mentioned #84387 and not #84388, which is a "smart number" but very likely incorrect.

I obviously meant the case when the blogger made the mistake and instead of #84387, he wrote number #84388, which is wrong, but smart. That smart number doesn't appear smart, unless a person looks at the pic of the UFO...

The MUFON case number 84387 is not smart, just intelligent. Here is why: It is composed of digits that are identical and of those that are different.

identical: 8 8
different: 4 3 7


Now, what is one of the main attributes of intelligence?

Clue: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Itf8hK4xENw/maxresdefault.jpg

It is the ability to identify identical items and mark them as such:

question: INTELLIGENCE
answer: INTE L=L IGENCE


(Remember those intersected right angle corners of the windows - L and L?)

And that's why the MUFON case number 84387 is intelligent:

identical: 8 8 -------> 8 = 8
different: 4 3 7 -------> 4 + 3 = 7


Yes, but the UFOs behave so irrationally that they can't be possibly guided by an intelligent mind!

Let's see if UFO is intelligent...

question: U F O
answer: U = F + O (21 = 6 + 15)


Yes, indeed - "UFO" is an "intelligent" acronym, because the letters form an identity.

And now, "To His image, to His likeness..."

UFO <----> MAN ?

Would UFO attempt to communicate with someone who is not intelligent?

Hardly so. That means that MAN is intelligent. But where is the proof?

Right here: M A N ----> M + A = N (13 + 1 = 14)

Can MAN communicate with UFO?

question: M A N -----to-----> U F O
answer: M A N -----to ----> U F O


The answer is NO. It's a similar situation where the pope gets inspired by God, but he can't tell Him what to do. In the case of UFO, there is a special case when it is possible but it's also very limited.

Quote:
What if aliens don't use base 10 number system?

Maybe they don't. But do you think that they couldn't be able to adapt to our mostly used numerical system? If they couldn't, what do you think would be the obstacle? A very low IQ?
« Last Edit: Jul 1st, 2017, 4:19pm by travex » User IP Logged

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