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 hotthread  Author  Topic: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technology  (Read 458 times)
Nyx
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xx DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technology
« Thread started on: Nov 3rd, 2017, 2:28pm »

Tom thinks Roswell was stuff Nazi Germany was working on from E.T.s.

I think Roswell was a simple accident where the UFO got hit by lightening and the aliens lost control.

I do not think it had to do with Nazi Germany.

http://www.disclose.tv/news/tom_delonge_has_a_mindblowing_theory_behind_the_roswell_ufo_incident/140726
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xx Re: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technolo
« Reply #1 on: Nov 3rd, 2017, 2:49pm »

I think Roswell is the most thoroughly researched and completely debunked UFO tale of all time.
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xx Why the interest in us?
« Reply #2 on: Nov 4th, 2017, 09:24am »

Why do most suppose other worldly beings with god like intelligence and virtually unlimited power hang around earth? Are we that interesting or that dangerous, do they care about our lust for self destruction and childish behavior or are they guiding a shadow government that one day might rise from our ashes to rebuild a new world order? What do you folks think?
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xx Re: Why the interest in us?
« Reply #3 on: Nov 4th, 2017, 12:06pm »

on Nov 4th, 2017, 09:24am, Shekinah wrote:
Why do most suppose other worldly beings with god like intelligence and virtually unlimited power hang around earth? Are we that interesting or that dangerous, do they care about our lust for self destruction and childish behavior or are they guiding a shadow government that one day might rise from our ashes to rebuild a new world order? What do you folks think?


They like our pizza. Best pizza in the galaxy.
And our beer.
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xx Re: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technolo
« Reply #4 on: Nov 4th, 2017, 12:19pm »

'scuse me while I yawn...... rolleyes

Nazi UFOs? C'mon Tom I expected better from you. Geez, if he has to go with a hare-brained conspiracy theory, he could at least have gone with a reasonably plausible one?

So Dave, where has Roswell been "debunked"? Weather balloons that intelligence men could not distinguish from something truly weird? And, how do you explain all of those dozens of witnesses telling similar tales? Just a load of "hoaxers" telling lies without any coordination of their efforts? I guess your "debunking" lacks a little plausibility too...

BTW, I have it on good authority, that the aliens are here for strawberry ice cream. Hell it is no less plausible than Nazi UFOs or dozens of virtual strangers colluding on the entire Roswell story.

If this is all DeLonge has to offer us, then I am already bored...... cry

NEXT!!

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« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2017, 12:20pm by bonehead » User IP Logged

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xx Re: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technolo
« Reply #5 on: Nov 4th, 2017, 2:14pm »

If the nazis were building top secret aircraft out of wooden sticks, rubber, and foil I will concede it is possible the Roswell debris is nazi technology.

Brazell first spotted the debris in mid June 1947, around the 14th. He saw it in the distance and did not go to the scene until he was back in the same area in July. His own words described the debris as wooden sticks, rubber, and foil. Not knowing what to make of the debris, he contacted his friend Sheriff Wilcox. They both went to the site, Wilcox suggested to call the Army. Wilcox described the debris to the Army as wooden sticks, rubber, and foil. Notice neither said anything about any bodies or survivors. Do you think it likely a surviving alien would hang around the crash site in the hot summer sun for 2+ weeks? Any bodies would be smelling ripe by then, and scavenged by animals (so much for the intact body in the fake autopsy video.)
The Army came and cleaned it up. Most likely it was a balloon from Project Mogul.

So where did the bodies come from? The first mention of any bodies in the Roswell myth was from Stanton Friedman in his book 10 years later. The 'bodies' part of the story did not exist before then. Where did Friedman get the bodies tale -- invented it himself to add to the story? That fits his subsequent UFOlogy. Somehow in the myth more crash sites were added by other authors (there was only one). A survivor magically appeared somewhere in the retellings and rehash. Then someone added the debris was taken to Area 51. That would have been a pretty good trick since the Groom Lake base did not even exist then. It was first built in 1955.

Where did the 'flying saucer' report come from?
My theory:
The Arnold sighting in Washington state was a few weeks earlier and still fresh in people's minds. So when the Army needed a cover story someone flippantly said call it a flying saucer and the press release went out. Then someone higher up realized that was an absurd cover story and revised it to a weather balloon. which was actually closer to the truth.

Marcel was not working for Army Intelligence. Marcel was the intelligence officer for his squadron. Big difference. A unit intelligence officer is an assistant to the unit commander and charged with gathering relevant mission information (weather forecasts, flight plans, etc). It is a low level assignment prior to being considered for a unit command. Reportedly, Marcel was minimally competent but not highly regarded in this capacity.

As for all the eyewitnesses -- we know about the fallibility of memory and confabulation. Eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable of all.
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xx Re: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technolo
« Reply #6 on: Nov 4th, 2017, 3:41pm »

on Nov 3rd, 2017, 2:49pm, dave54 wrote:
I think Roswell is the most thoroughly researched and completely debunked UFO tale of all time.


This was one of the favorite test of common sense that the ETH's (Extraterrestrial Humans) administered to those UFO debunkers who got abducted for mental testing.

R O S W E L L <-----> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

The result was absolutely dismal. Some of them were not even capable understanding what was asked - what those question marks meant!
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xx Re: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technolo
« Reply #7 on: Nov 5th, 2017, 8:38pm »


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xx Re: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technolo
« Reply #8 on: Nov 6th, 2017, 01:08am »

on Nov 4th, 2017, 2:14pm, dave54 wrote:
Notice neither said anything about any bodies or survivors. Do you think it likely a surviving alien would hang around the crash site in the hot summer sun for 2+ weeks? Any bodies would be smelling ripe by then, and scavenged by animals (so much for the intact body in the fake autopsy video.)
The Army came and cleaned it up. Most likely it was a balloon from Project Mogul.


The story makers of poor judgement made a mistake by including alien bodies in the tell to prop up the notion of a genuine event. The debunkers, who simply assumed that the aliens were similar cellular organism as we are, argued various consequences of dead bodies being exposed to the environment. You can't enter dismissive arguments regarding something of which you are hardly familiar with. That's a serious argumentation error. (Later, the USAF officials for some reason accepted the presence of alien bodies, but argued that they were mannequins used in testing the effects of parachute jumps from high altitudes.)

The Phoenix Lights event was also designed to point toward the similarity between the Roswell crash and Mars landings. (In 1997, the UFO enthusiasts observed the 50th anniversary of the Roswell flying saucer crash.)
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/

(Yes, the ET's know things ahead, as they have to - the hoaxers and the story makers don't.)

The city of Phoenix was selected for the purpose, because there were no well-populated places named Spirit or Opportunity. The common denominator is word "balloon."

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1) Are those balloons crashing on Mars?
2) Are those balloons landing on Mars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSbAUtyO7xo

The answer is neither, because we, the Martians, never found any alien pilots dead or alive.

This argumentation error based on the erroneous assumption that craft must be always piloted leads to an absurd conclusion.
« Last Edit: Nov 6th, 2017, 01:17am by travex » User IP Logged

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xx Re: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technolo
« Reply #9 on: Nov 11th, 2017, 7:03pm »

on Nov 4th, 2017, 2:14pm, dave54 wrote:
If the nazis were building top secret aircraft out of wooden sticks, rubber, and foil I will concede it is possible the Roswell debris is nazi technology.


Well, the Germans did build a number of advanced designs utilizing wood as a major component of their construction. But most of those did not fly, survive the war, or were of such a desperately suicidal nature that experimenting with them after the war was not seen as a sensible or viable pursuit.

I don't but this silly argument anymore than you do.


on Nov 4th, 2017, 2:14pm, dave54 wrote:
Brazell first spotted the debris in mid June 1947, around the 14th. He saw it in the distance and did not go to the scene until he was back in the same area in July. His own words described the debris as wooden sticks, rubber, and foil. Not knowing what to make of the debris, he contacted his friend Sheriff Wilcox. They both went to the site, Wilcox suggested to call the Army. Wilcox described the debris to the Army as wooden sticks, rubber, and foil. Notice neither said anything about any bodies or survivors. Do you think it likely a surviving alien would hang around the crash site in the hot summer sun for 2+ weeks? Any bodies would be smelling ripe by then, and scavenged by animals (so much for the intact body in the fake autopsy video.)
The Army came and cleaned it up. Most likely it was a balloon from Project Mogul.


Wilcox is only one of many witnesses that claimed to have seen or handled the material. And he was a Johnnie come lately in that respect. The initial reports of the material came from Jesse Marcel, and later, Jesse Jr. They both handled the material and made no bones about the fact that this stuff was not like anything they had ever seen.

Other witnesses corroborated their stories later. Whether Marcel was "only" a squadron intelligence officer is irrelevant. He knew what a weather balloon looked like and he had nursed a grudge for decades because the brass had made him look foolish by having him hold up bits of an old balloon as an explanation for what he knew to be something entirely different.

Nobody but a complete hayseed would think that the bits of rubber, balsa wood and foil that make up a balloon train could be anything but ordinary earthly stuff. I seriously doubt that the world's only atomic bomber squadron at that time (Marcel's 409th) would have kept and indeed, rewarded, an intelligence officer that was such an ignorant buffoon. But they did. And he kept his mouth shut about it for over 30 years.


on Nov 4th, 2017, 2:14pm, dave54 wrote:
So where did the bodies come from? The first mention of any bodies in the Roswell myth was from Stanton Friedman in his book 10 years later. The 'bodies' part of the story did not exist before then. Where did Friedman get the bodies tale -- invented it himself to add to the story? That fits his subsequent UFOlogy. Somehow in the myth more crash sites were added by other authors (there was only one). A survivor magically appeared somewhere in the retellings and rehash. Then someone added the debris was taken to Area 51. That would have been a pretty good trick since the Groom Lake base did not even exist then. It was first built in 1955.

Where did the 'flying saucer' report come from?
My theory:
The Arnold sighting in Washington state was a few weeks earlier and still fresh in people's minds. So when the Army needed a cover story someone flippantly said call it a flying saucer and the press release went out. Then someone higher up realized that was an absurd cover story and revised it to a weather balloon. which was actually closer to the truth.

Marcel was not working for Army Intelligence. Marcel was the intelligence officer for his squadron. Big difference. A unit intelligence officer is an assistant to the unit commander and charged with gathering relevant mission information (weather forecasts, flight plans, etc). It is a low level assignment prior to being considered for a unit command. Reportedly, Marcel was minimally competent but not highly regarded in this capacity.

As for all the eyewitnesses -- we know about the fallibility of memory and confabulation. Eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable of all.


Occam's razor holds that the simplest explanation that matches the evidence is probably the right one. Neither yours nor DeLonge's theories match what the witnesses claim they saw. Roswell has neither been debunked or proven. But I am more inclined to believe the witnesses. Many of their stories corroborate each other.

With so many telling similar tales, it is hard to believe that it was all lying, hoaxing and hallucinating. That explanation defies Occam as well.

Roswell has traditionally been about what each individual is willing (or unwilling) to believe about the case. So the argument has never been so much about what happened at Roswell, as it is about what ever you are willing to believe. Some forget that believing the Roswell story is all crap is also a theory that has no real evidence to support it....

In the absence of any evidence that all witnesses were just a bunch of liars, hoaxers, or delusional, the corroboration of the witnesses makes their stories seem more plausible than not.

That's how I see it anyway.

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xx Re: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technolo
« Reply #10 on: Nov 11th, 2017, 11:53pm »

Jesse jr was about 10 years old in 1947. Do you really naively believe Jesse sr, or any military officer, would allow a 10 year old boy access to a top secret aircraft on a military base when other base personnel were denied access? I do not believe jesse jr's story. He may not have been intentionally lying, confabulation is probably in play, as is the conflicting witness statements, since no one interviewed anyone until 10 years later. As you well know, first person testimony is next to worthless 10 years after any event. The memories had become mixed with popular culture depictions and and the flurry of bad 1950's sci-fi movies that came out. Many of the witness stories were merely retelling what they heard from someone else. This makes their stories hearsay and should be completely and totally discarded.

The initial report did come from Wilcox when he called the Army. Marcel accompanied Wilcox back to the site where they gathered some of the material. Marcel described it in his initial written report as 'tinfoil and rubber'. Project Mogul did use some balloons that were more or less disc shaped. That is one possible explanation for some of the reports it was a disc.

I did mistype an error in my earlier post. Berlitz fabricated the bodies story. Friedman increased the body count and added a second crash site -- without any evidence or reliable reference. Like Berlitz, he invented extraneous details to add drama to the book and omitted details that subtracted from his version. After all, the purpose of both books was to make money from sales, not produce a factual report.
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xx Re: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technolo
« Reply #11 on: Nov 12th, 2017, 09:11am »

The one and only true fact about Roswell is that the intelligence office of the Roswell Army Air Field, at the very first, bragged that they had in their possession a flying saucer.

The Army knew what they had, or they were totally stupid.

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/anna_jones1/daily_record.html

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xx Re: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technolo
« Reply #12 on: Nov 12th, 2017, 11:51am »

on Nov 11th, 2017, 11:53pm, dave54 wrote:
Jesse jr was about 10 years old in 1947. Do you really naively believe Jesse sr, or any military officer, would allow a 10 year old boy access to a top secret aircraft on a military base when other base personnel were denied access? I do not believe jesse jr's story. He may not have been intentionally lying, confabulation is probably in play, as is the conflicting witness statements, since no one interviewed anyone until 10 years later. As you well know, first person testimony is next to worthless 10 years after any event. The memories had become mixed with popular culture depictions and and the flurry of bad 1950's sci-fi movies that came out. Many of the witness stories were merely retelling what they heard from someone else. This makes their stories hearsay and should be completely and totally discarded.


Well, like I said above, you will believe only what you are willing to believe. In your case the belief is, it is all a bunch of BS.

I have no problem with the stories of either Marcel. If my dad had wanted to show me something he thought unusual and unique, and I saw that it was - that would be a memory seared into my brain. You always remember things that are unusual and anomalous. I know I do. I am not naive. I am human. I understand Marcel senior's motivation for stopping by his house and showing the stuff to his wife and son before he knew that he would have to shut up about the whole thing. He wanted somebody else to know what he knew!


on Nov 11th, 2017, 11:53pm, dave54 wrote:
The initial report did come from Wilcox when he called the Army. Marcel accompanied Wilcox back to the site where they gathered some of the material. Marcel described it in his initial written report as 'tinfoil and rubber'. Project Mogul did use some balloons that were more or less disc shaped. That is one possible explanation for some of the reports it was a disc.

I did mistype an error in my earlier post. Berlitz fabricated the bodies story. Friedman increased the body count and added a second crash site -- without any evidence or reliable reference. Like Berlitz, he invented extraneous details to add drama to the book and omitted details that subtracted from his version. After all, the purpose of both books was to make money from sales, not produce a factual report.


Baloney. Mack Brazel mentioned bodies to radio announcer Frank Joyce while he was still in the office with Sheriff Wilcox! This was BEFORE Brazel and Wilcox reported Brazel's find to the military.

So bodies were mentioned at the very beginning. Yes, Joyce took many years until he finally reported the entire conversation between him and Brazel to Randle and Schmitt. As with many other witnesses, Joyce was reluctant to say what he knew. It was only over time that he filled in the details of his story.

One thing to note here: all witnesses alluded to Brazel's agitated state of mind that day. He was very upset about the whole thing. Why? Because he found a weather balloon? Brazel had found weather balloons before. To quote him specifically, he said "I am sure what I found was not any weather observation balloon," he said. "But if I find anything else besides a bomb they are going to have a hard time getting me to say anything about it."

The last bit was an allusion to how Brazel had been treated by the military after he reported his find to the Army. Brazel, who could never rub two dimes together suddenly had a brand new pickup truck and a new-found chip on his shoulder regarding the government. So why had the Army held Brazel captive for days in Roswell, then finally paraded him around town to retell his story in new terms to the press - because he found a weather balloon? Sure, that is a credible story.

To clarify the thing Joyce said, "As he was leaving, Brazel turned and said, 'You know how they talk about little green men? Well, they weren't green.'"

Sure, he saw a weather balloon. That explains his state of mind and the initial report out of Roswell that the Army had captured a flying disc..... rolleyes

Sorry, but your unwillingness to accept the evidence is not an indication of where the truth lays, but only an indication of what you are willing (or unwilling) to believe. The evidence, such as it is, seems to point to something else....

Here are some articles on what Brazel said and did that might clarify things for you. Or confound you, (since they do not match up with your personal bias):

http://www.roswellfiles.com/Witnesses/brazel.htm

http://www.nicap.org/rosbraz.htm

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« Last Edit: Nov 12th, 2017, 12:13pm by bonehead » User IP Logged

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xx Re: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technolo
« Reply #13 on: Nov 12th, 2017, 11:56am »

on Nov 12th, 2017, 09:11am, Nyx wrote:
The one and only true fact about Roswell is that the intelligence office of the Roswell Army Air Field, at the very first, bragged that they had in their possession a flying saucer.

The Army knew what they had, or they were totally stupid.

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/anna_jones1/daily_record.html



Note the physical size and shape of the disc description exactly matches some of the balloons used in Project Mogul.
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xx Re: DeLonge's theory Roswell was Nazi UFO technolo
« Reply #14 on: Nov 12th, 2017, 12:03pm »

on Nov 12th, 2017, 11:56am, dave54 wrote:
Note the physical size and shape of the disc description exactly matches some of the balloons used in Project Mogul.


Note the discrepancies from this story as reported in the articles I linked above. Brazel told different stories about the amount of debris. Those differing stories were primarily divided between what he said before he talked to the Army and what her said after they held him sequestered for days.

Also, Marcel senior was pretty clear in his telling of the actual size of the debris field...

But you don't care anyway. Obviously your mind is already made up.
« Last Edit: Nov 12th, 2017, 12:07pm by bonehead » User IP Logged

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