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 poll_icon  Poll  Poll Question: What is the probability of free water on the Moon ?
Zero to 1% VotesVotesVotes 5 (83%)
1% to 10 % VotesVotesVotes 1 (16%)
Total votes: 6  
 thread  Author  Topic: Water on the Moon.  (Read 871 times)
INT21
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xx Water on the Moon.
« Thread started on: Feb 22nd, 2016, 10:48am »

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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #1 on: Feb 22nd, 2016, 10:50am »

on Feb 22nd, 2016, 10:48am, INT21 wrote:


Let's cut out the personalities and ask a straight question.

Actually I screwed up the poll question. There should have been more options. But I can't see how to change it now.

So anyone who thinks the chances are greater than 10% just click the '1% to 10% button.

Sorry about that.

HAL
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« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2016, 10:54am by INT21 » User IP Logged

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Marvin
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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #2 on: Feb 22nd, 2016, 12:21pm »

on Feb 22nd, 2016, 10:50am, INT21 wrote:
Let's cut out the personalities and ask a straight question.


HAL
INT21



For me, the real question is... recognizing the cost associated with travel to the moon, is the water really free?



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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #3 on: Feb 22nd, 2016, 12:42pm »

^ LOL.....
Nothing is free anymore......
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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #4 on: Feb 22nd, 2016, 5:30pm »

Marvin,

By 'free water' I mean free standing water as opposed to water molecules bonded to other materials.

But you already knew that' didn't you, you rascal.

HAL
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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #5 on: Feb 22nd, 2016, 5:32pm »

Drwu,

..Nothing is free anymore...

Just what people who vote for Trump are going to find out soon. No free lunch there.

HAL
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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #6 on: Feb 22nd, 2016, 10:13pm »

Was it not determined there is much water ice at the moon's poles?
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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #7 on: Feb 22nd, 2016, 10:50pm »

on Feb 22nd, 2016, 10:13pm, Nyx wrote:
Was it not determined there is much water ice at the moon's poles?



Interesting nyx..it was actually at its old poles..seems the moon went thru a polar shift a long time ago..


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_water
Lunar scientists had discussed the possibility of water repositories for decades. They are now increasingly "confident that the decades-long debate is over" a report says. "The Moon, in fact, has water in all sorts of places; not just locked up in minerals, but scattered throughout the broken-up surface, and, potentially, in blocks or sheets of ice at depth." The results from the Chandrayaan mission are also "offering a wide array of watery signals."[18][19]
History of observations
20th century

Apollo Program

The possibility of ice in the floors of polar lunar craters was first suggested in 1961 by Caltech researchers Kenneth Watson, Bruce C. Murray, and Harrison Brown.[20] Although trace amounts of water were found in lunar rock samples collected by Apollo astronauts, this was assumed to be a result of contamination, and the majority of the lunar surface was generally assumed to be completely dry.[21][22] However, a 2008 study of lunar rock samples revealed evidence of water molecules trapped in volcanic glass beads.[23]



An off-axis abundance of water at the moon’s north pole (left) is matched symmetrically at the south pole (right).

An off-axis abundance of water at the moon’s north pole (left) is matched symmetrically at the south pole (right).
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/lopsided-ice-moon-points-past-shift-poles
Richard Miller/University of Alabama, Huntsville
Lopsided ice on the moon points to past shift in poles

By Eric HandMar. 19, 2015 , 5:15 PM

THE WOODLANDS, TEXAS—What little ice remains on Mercury and Mars is mostly confined to the planets’ poles, as one would expect, because the sun shines the least in those regions. Not so on the moon. Much of the moon’s ice, which lurks beneath the surface, is found in an area 5.5° away from the north pole and in a matching region 5.5° from the south pole, scientists announced here this week at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference. The data suggest that in the past, the moon’s axis of rotation—and hence its poles—shifted.

“It turns out these enhanced concentrations are exactly opposite each other—they’re antipodal,” says Matthew Siegler, a planetary scientist at the Planetary Science Institute who is based in Dallas, Texas. “The easiest explanation is: There used to be poles there.” Siegler and his colleagues have suggested a cause for the “polar wander”: a 3.5-billion-year-old hot spot beneath the moon’s surface. If the story holds up, it means the moon's water is nearly as ancient as the orb itself.

The researchers relied on data from NASA’s Lunar Prospector mission, which orbited the moon from 1998 to 1999. One of the spacecraft’s instruments measured neutrons emitted from the surface. Slower, less energetic ones indicate the amount of hydrogen lurking within a meter of the surface, and on the moon, hydrogen is a proxy for water. Although scientists had noticed before that the water was not centered at the current poles, no one had noticed this precise off-axis, antipodal relationship. “Everyone is basically kicking themselves and saying, ‘Why didn’t I notice this?’ ” Siegler says.

He and his colleagues assumed that when the ice was deposited, it was centered on the poles. But what kind of event could have moved the poles by 5.5°? Known asteroid impacts were too small or in the wrong location to do the job. Instead, the team hypothesizes that a 3.5-billion-year-old hot spot could have nudged the poles to their present-day position. Pouring out enormous amounts of lava, that hot spot created Oceanus Procellarum, the vast dark spot on the near side of the moon. The Procellarum region is known to have high concentrations of radioactive elements that would have been hot in ancient times. The research team theorizes that this heat would have created a less dense lens in the moon’s mantle that would have caused the axis to wobble into today’s position.

If that idea is correct, then it implies that the moon’s water is mostly ancient—contrary to scientists who have argued that water was delivered more recently by asteroid impacts or even produced by a hail of protons known as the solar wind. “That ice might be primordial from the beginning of the moon,” Siegler says.

“It’s a terrific idea,” says Oded Aharonson, a planetary scientist at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel. But Aharonson isn’t sure the ice could have persisted for so long. At other times in its ancient past, the moon’s poles are thought to have wandered far enough to bring polar regions near the sun-drenched equator. Moreover, ice could be destroyed by large asteroid impacts. For the ice to survive, the 5.5° tilting event would need to occur after those cataclysms, he says. “It’s really critical not to do this [tilting] too early in lunar history,” he says.

But the research team says there are ways for the ice to persist through the ages. Some of the water may be locked up as hydrated minerals in rocks. And some of it may be protected by an insulating layer of regolith, says Richard Miller, a planetary scientist at the University of Alabama, Huntsville, and a collaborator on the research. “If it gets buried and moves to depth, some fraction can survive for a long period of time.”



« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2016, 12:46am by Sys_Config » User IP Logged

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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #8 on: Mar 16th, 2016, 08:05am »

on Feb 22nd, 2016, 10:50pm, SysConfig wrote:
Interesting nyx..it was actually at its old poles..seems the moon went thru a polar shift a long time ago..





I must have gone through a polar shift too, I think I have become bipolar.



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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #9 on: Mar 18th, 2016, 12:31pm »

on Feb 22nd, 2016, 5:30pm, INT21 wrote:
Marvin,

By 'free water' I mean free standing water as opposed to water molecules bonded to other materials.

But you already knew that' didn't you, you rascal.

HAL
INT21 smiley



Okay, I will be serious.


Are you trying to figure out opinions as to the amount of liquid water covering the lunar surface?



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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #10 on: Mar 18th, 2016, 12:58pm »

^ I think Hal is indeed referring to actual liquid surface water as in a lake which as far as I know cannot exist on the moon. The idea of ice trapped is not new and has been talked about for many years .
But this is the thread that people were arguing on when the new guy positron claimed there were 'lakes and vegetation' on the surface and was using these 'doctored' pics to 'prove it'.
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=search&num=1453008478&action=display&start=210
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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #11 on: Mar 18th, 2016, 5:37pm »

the name positron should have given people a clue as to motive for the thread even appearing. positrons are essentially anti matter...it would be futile to convince him otherwise..just as we have beliefs that run totally opposite to others..not unexpectedly being opposites they attracted..with the end result..

free water I assumed no one is there to charge us for it, though extracting it would be quite prohibitive.
maybe he should have said free running water..not all minds are equal..grin
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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #12 on: Mar 18th, 2016, 7:29pm »

cool

TO WIT:

"the name positron should have given people a clue"

YA THINK...

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xx Re: Water on the Moon.
« Reply #13 on: Mar 19th, 2016, 2:48pm »

on Mar 18th, 2016, 7:29pm, ZETAR wrote:
cool

TO WIT:

"the name positron should have given people a clue"

YA THINK...

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let there be light.. wink
« Last Edit: Mar 19th, 2016, 2:48pm by Sys_Config » User IP Logged

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