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Swamprat
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xx Is Death Reversible?
« Thread started on: Mar 17th, 2016, 2:12pm »

Crossing Over: How Science Is Redefining Life and Death

Can death be reversible? And what are we learning about the gray zone between here and the other side?

By Robin Marantz Henig
Will Appear in April Issue


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After toddler Gardell Martin fell into an icy stream in March 2015, he was dead for more than an hour and a half. Three and a half days later he left a hospital alive and well. His story is one of many prompting scientists to question the very meaning of death.

At first it seemed like nothing more than the worst headache she’d ever had. So Karla Pérez—22 years old, the mother of three-year-old Genesis, and five months pregnant—went into her mother’s room to lie down, hoping it would pass. But the pain got worse, and as she vomited off the side of the bed, she told her younger brother to call 911.

It was not quite midnight on Sunday, February 8, 2015. The ambulance raced Pérez from her home in Waterloo, Nebraska, to Methodist Women’s Hospital in Omaha. She began to lose consciousness in the emergency room, and doctors put a tube down her throat to keep oxygen flowing to her fetus. They ordered a CT scan, and there it was: a massive brain bleed creating severe pressure in her skull.

She had suffered a stroke, but amazingly her fetus was doing fine, the heartbeat strong and steady as if nothing were wrong. Neurologists did another CT scan at about two in the morning, and their worst fears were confirmed: Pérez’s brain had become so swollen that the whole brain stem had pushed out through a small opening at the base of her skull.

“When they saw that,” says Tifany Somer-Shely, the obstetrician who’d cared for Pérez through her pregnancy with Genesis and with this baby too, “they knew for sure that it wasn’t going to end well.”

Pérez had landed at the ragged border between life and death, with a brain that had ceased functioning and would never recover—in other words, it was dead—and a body that could be sustained mechanically, in this case for one reason only: to nurture her 22-week-old fetus until he was big enough to manage on his own. This borderland is becoming increasingly populated, as scientists explore how our existence is not a toggle—“on” for alive, “off” for dead—but a dimmer switch that can move through various shades between white and black. In the gray zone, death isn’t necessarily permanent, life can be hard to define, and some people cross over that great divide and return—sometimes describing in precise detail what they saw on the other side.

Death is “a process, not a moment,” writes critical-care physician Sam Parnia in his book Erasing Death. It’s a whole-body stroke, in which the heart stops beating but the organs don’t die immediately. In fact, he writes, they might hang on intact for quite a while, which means that “for a significant period of time after death, death is in fact fully reversible.”

How can death, the very essence of forever, be reversible? What is the nature of consciousness during that transition through the gray zone? A growing number of scientists are wrestling with such vexing questions.

In Seattle biologist Mark Roth experiments with putting animals into a chemically induced suspended animation, mixing up solutions to lower heartbeat and metabolism to near-hibernation levels. His goal is to make human patients who are having heart attacks “a little bit immortal” until they can get past the medical crisis that brought them to the brink of death.

In Baltimore and Pittsburgh trauma teams led by surgeon Sam Tisherman are conducting clinical trials in which gunshot and stabbing victims have their body temperature lowered in order to slow bleeding long enough for surgeons to close up their wounds. The medical teams are using supercooling to do what Roth wants to do with chemicals—kill their patients, temporarily, in order to save their lives.

In Arizona cryonics experts maintain more than 130 dead clients in a frozen state that’s another kind of limbo. Their hope is that sometime in the distant future, maybe centuries from now, these clients will be thawed and revived, technology having advanced to the point where they can be cured of whatever killed them.

In India neuroscientist Richard Davidson studies Buddhist monks in a state called thukdam, in which biological signs of life have ceased yet the body appears fresh and intact for a week or more. Davidson’s goal is to see if he can detect any brain activity in these monks, hoping to learn what, if anything, happens to the mind after circulation stops.

And in New York, Parnia spreads the gospel of sustained resuscitation. He says CPR works better than people realize and that under proper conditions—when the body temperature is lowered, chest compression is regulated for depth and tempo, and oxygen is reintroduced slowly to avoid injuring tissue—some patients can be brought back from the dead after hours without a heartbeat, often with no long-term consequences. Now he’s investigating one of the most mysterious aspects of crossing over: why so many people in cardiac arrest report out-of-body or near-death experiences, and what those sensations might reveal about the nature of this limbo zone and about death itself.

Oxygen plays a paradoxical role
along the life-death border, according to Roth, of Seattle’s Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. Ever since oxygen was discovered in the early 1770s, “scientists have recognized it as essential to life,” he says. What the 18th-century scientists didn’t know is that oxygen is essential to life in a surprisingly nonbinary way. “Yes, if you take away oxygen, you can kill the animal,” Roth says. “But if you further reduce the oxygen, the animal is alive again, but it’s suspended.”

He has shown that this works in soil nematodes, which are alive in air with as little as 0.5 percent oxygen and are dead if you reduce the oxygen to 0.1 percent. But if you then proceed quickly to a much lower level of oxygen—0.001 percent or even less—the worms enter a state of suspension where they need significantly less oxygen to survive. It’s their way of preserving themselves during extreme deprivation, a bit like animals hibernating in winter. These oxygen-starved, suspended organisms appear to be dead but not permanently so, like a gas cooktop with only the pilot light on.

Roth is trying to get to this pilot-light state by infusing experimental animals with an “elemental reducing agent,” such as iodide, that greatly decreases their oxygen needs. Soon he’ll try it in humans too. The goal is to minimize the damage that can occur from treatments after heart attacks. If iodide slows oxygen metabolism, the thinking is, it might help avoid the blowout injury that sometimes comes with treatments like balloon angioplasty. At this lower setting the damaged heart can just sip the oxygen coming in through the repaired vessel, rather than get flooded by it.

Life and death are all about motion, according to Roth: In biology the less something moves, the longer it tends to live. Seeds and spores can have life spans of hundreds of thousands of years—in other words, they’re practically immortal. Roth imagines a day when using an agent such as iodide, a technique that will soon be studied in early clinical trials in Australia, can give people that immortality “for a moment”—the moment they most need it, when their heart is in serious trouble.


Read more, MUCH more: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/04/dying-death-brain-dead-body-consciousness-science/



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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #1 on: Mar 17th, 2016, 8:15pm »

This shows a profound difference between medical and biological knowledge of current beliefs,
Science is a long way from truth,
We as a species ,know very little about the voracity of the life for life.
Life
Eternal
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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #2 on: Mar 18th, 2016, 12:58pm »

on Mar 17th, 2016, 8:15pm, jm57 wrote:
This shows a profound difference between medical and biological knowledge of current beliefs,
Science is a long way from truth,
We as a species ,know very little about the voracity of the life for life.
Life
Eternal


Well, in this new 'gray' area of extreme rescusitation tech the medical and biological reality interacts with the true path of our spirit, causing something new. Human fates extended beyond the point of natural death.

I wish to look at this like some of the weirder quantum effects, where cause and effect appear reversed. From the observation moment where a person is alive AFTER RESUSCITATION FROM (based on previous level of state of the art) DEATH, his/her being alive necessitates the processes leading up to that present to be redefined as BEING ALIVE too.

It's as if Resuscitation is giving God/Fate a push....


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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #3 on: Mar 18th, 2016, 1:00pm »

And we are assuming here that God and a spirit exist....is that scientific in any way..? Have they found that in the lab yet..?

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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #4 on: Mar 18th, 2016, 8:14pm »

This was proven many years ago (see clip):

https://youtu.be/2SIzmWolaFw
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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #5 on: Mar 18th, 2016, 10:38pm »

^ Brilliant.....loved that clip....leave it to Python to sum it all up with comedy.

laugh
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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #6 on: Mar 19th, 2016, 1:31pm »

All of this calls into question how we perceive DEATH! Does everything suddenly cease when we die or do we move to another place? (or dimension) As a Spiritualist, I believe we move to another plain of existence. My belief has taken away any fear of dying and I am looking forward to taking that next step.
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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #7 on: Mar 19th, 2016, 3:53pm »

Age, temperature could be factors to consider if a person could be resuscitated.







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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #8 on: Mar 19th, 2016, 7:15pm »

From the article: After toddler Gardell Martin fell into an icy stream in March 2015, he was dead for more than an hour and a half.


No he was not!!

Is Death Reversible? Ridiculous thing to suggestrolleyes who wrote this crap!?

I've never heard of someone being revived after having their head blown off with a shotgun or falling 20 stories onto a sidewalk, as a few examples. I'd call that dead.


So IMO if you're pronounced "clinically dead" & revived you were not really dead. . The body/ brain shuts down as a way of coping with extreme trauma. That IS NOT DEAD-- nothing amazing there at all.

When you're "really" dead, that's it, job done- no coming back! Just my opinion of course.

Peace.

dej...
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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #9 on: Mar 21st, 2016, 10:15am »

on Mar 18th, 2016, 1:00pm, drwu23 wrote:
And we are assuming here that God and a spirit exist....is that scientific in any way..? Have they found that in the lab yet..?

wink


Not sure "we" do, dr Wu, but let's say I'm throwing that out there smiley I might answer you with: no such lab results to date. The reason could be that we're the ones in the process of being proved in God's lab (earthly life).


purr
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Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #10 on: Mar 21st, 2016, 10:25am »

on Mar 18th, 2016, 8:14pm, Mythos wrote:
This was proven many years ago (see clip):

https://youtu.be/2SIzmWolaFw


Nice one Mythos laugh laugh laugh.....

..although alternatively John Cleese could have had on three rescuscitated patients, including those with a period of brain death recorded, especially coupled with a Near Death Experience to relate!

Suggesting that the afterlife is a rather busy place indeed....


purr
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Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #11 on: Mar 21st, 2016, 10:28am »

on Mar 19th, 2016, 7:15pm, notdej wrote:
From the article: After toddler Gardell Martin fell into an icy stream in March 2015, he was dead for more than an hour and a half.


No he was not!!

Is Death Reversible? Ridiculous thing to suggestrolleyes who wrote this crap!?

I've never heard of someone being revived after having their head blown off with a shotgun or falling 20 stories onto a sidewalk, as a few examples. I'd call that dead.


So IMO if you're pronounced "clinically dead" & revived you were not really dead. . The body/ brain shuts down as a way of coping with extreme trauma. That IS NOT DEAD-- nothing amazing there at all.

When you're "really" dead, that's it, job done- no coming back! Just my opinion of course.

Peace.

dej...


Uh... with respect Dej, but you are just now demonstrating how we are shifting the goal posts. States we would have called 'Dead' a mere decade ago, we now consider (possibly) alive. To be continued in the future..

smiley


purr
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Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

-RONALD REAGAN
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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #12 on: Jun 4th, 2016, 12:19pm »

Leave it to science to invert the whole nature of the question. The only way to justify cryogenics is if you believe that the conscious "I" only exists in the body as an outgrowth of the material brain. Otherwise, why try to revive an old frozen slab of meat? That is materialism for you: it limits the way we look at things.

Here is my belief, and I am stating here it is just a belief. You can call this my "god" problem, as atheists would have it. I have since childhood believed in the continuation, indeed, the immortality of consciousness. I, early on learned about past lives and out of body experiences. As I have stated elsewhere on this site, consciousness is the primary currency of our existence, both spiritual and corporeal. There isn't anything without consciousness. Think about it. Oh, sorry that is an act of consciousness..... kiss

Materialists often entertain the notion that consciousness is some bio-mechanical chemical process that originates in the brain. Nonsense. There is plenty of literature out there on Near Death Experiences, reincarnation, out of body experiences and remote viewing. All of these experiences, reported in similar ways by many people from different cultures, indicate that the physical brain is not necessary for the continuation of consciousness. In fact, I would say that terminating consciousness may not even be possible. Even with your head cut off.

So, there is no "death". At least not the black hole of unawareness so vigorously entertained by materialism. I am with Purr on this one.

But yeah, that material sack of meat and water and weak electrical impulses we all call "me" has a limited time-span in the material world. But that little bit of consciousness we call "mind", that spark of universal energy that makes our reality "real" to us, keeps up its incessant activity long after the meat sack has become nothing more than worm excrement.

I think the science behind these stories is pretty cool. There are many examples of suspended animation in nature. Frogs have been known to live in their little mud balls underground for centuries before being "revived". But we shouldn't trouble ourselves with the notion that the end of the meat-sack represents the end of awareness. That is just a materialist superstition..... wink

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xx Re: Is Death Reversible?
« Reply #13 on: Jun 5th, 2016, 11:53am »

and another article on the same subject.....

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/06/new-test-can-determine-which-coma-patients-will-wake-up/

And another - better one:

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/06/deathnauts-strange-scientific-journeys-into-the-afterlife/
« Last Edit: Jun 23rd, 2016, 10:32am by bonehead » User IP Logged

"The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible."
ALBERT EINSTEIN
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