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Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by B J Booth on Oct 7th, 2002, 2:20pm

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SETI is an acronym for the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. It is the science of using telescopes, radio and optical, to search the skies for signals from alien civilizations.

The idea of SETI began in 1959 with the publication of a paper in the British journal Nature by Giuseppe Cocconi and Philip Morrison. The paper discussed the possibility of the existence of alien civilizations and how we might be able to detect them. Their conclusion was that the easiest method of detection would be radio waves.

Radio waves were chosen because they are capable of traveling the vast distances between stars and can be generated with reasonable amounts of power. We have been sending radio waves out into space for more than sixty years. All of our radio, TV, satellite, and radar signals are currently spreading out throughout the galaxy. Perhaps they've already been detected by someone.

At the same time as Cocconi and Morrison's paper was published a young astronomer named Frank Drake was putting together plans for the first search. The search, named Project Ozma, was conducted in 1960. Over a two week period the stars Tau Ceti and Epsilon Eridani were scanned for alien signals. No signals were found but the search had begun.

In the 30 years since the initial Ozma search many others have been carried out with more sensitive
equipment, over much longer time frames, observing thousands of other stars. So far no alien signals have
been detected, but we've really only begun to scratch the surface. There are an estimated 100 billion stars in
the Milky Way galaxy alone. To complicate matters further there are millions of frequencies that a signal
could be received on. It may be that we just haven't looked in the right place at the right time yet.

A human being's desire to learn more about himself, and the world around him begs an answer to the question, "Are we alone?" This inquisitiveness is strong
enough to make a man sit alone for hours in the early morning hours with headphones on, monitor in front of him, waiting...watching for that one intelligent response
to his question, "Is anybody listening?"

If that contact comes, what form will it be in? What will they say to us? Some have said we are asking for our own doom by looking for other intelligent civilizations.
Some say that another more intelligent race than ours would advance our technology by light years, cure our illnesses, bring peace to our planet. What would happen if contact occurs? Join in and give us your views here.








Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by starship22 on Oct 8th, 2002, 12:46am

This is a fascinating subject to me. From the early days of TV, I remember the old shows that dealt with the subject of alien contact. I have seen the show with Jodie Foster, Contact about 6 times, I thought it was neat how the aliens encoded the instructions in the video feed.

I wonder if there has already been a signal received, and they are keeping it secret from us.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Beamship on Oct 9th, 2002, 8:21pm

A very well written introduction to this topic I must say. This is one of the most fascinating aspects of the whole ET thing. I only wish I knew more about the technical background involved, then I might understand it a little better. Anyhow, I think that we have probably already been contacted, but we won't know about it anytime soon, that's for certain.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by starship22 on Oct 12th, 2002, 3:52pm

i've been surfing around the net today and looking at some other sites with info about SETI, it seems that almost everywhere I went people all believe that we have already been contacted. so I don't feel so alone anymore.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by B J Booth on Oct 12th, 2002, 8:34pm

When you think about it, almost every week or two we hear new details of something the government did back in the 50s, 60s, and so on. It won't be too long until they will be revealing experiments, and knowledge that the government had in the 90s and the first decade of this century. It only stands to reason that ET contact is one of them.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Merlin on Oct 13th, 2002, 10:25am

The movie contact was great until the part where she travelled to the other planet for ne that spoilt the film but there you go the begining was really realistic but from the point she travelled it descended into a hard to believe fantasy. I still enjoyed it though.


Merlin grin
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by applescent on Oct 15th, 2002, 5:06pm

I am one of the many who run Setiathome as my screensaver, and am currently processing my 16th unit of data. The debate about whether we are "digging our own graves" by attempting contact with other species is one that has no clear answer. How can we know what would happen? But if we avoid any possible contact, we may be missing out on technology and other advances that we would otherwise never be able to access...
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by B J Booth on Oct 20th, 2002, 10:50am

Yes, you are right, it is a catch-22, and we just won't know until the time comes. I can see both sides of the debate, but the human instinct to search for more knowledge is the element that tips the scales over to the side of trying to make contact.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by B J Booth on Oct 23rd, 2002, 4:39pm

ASTRONAUT NEIL ARMSTRONG SAYS "THERE IS LIFE IN SPACE"


CAPE CANAVERAL -- Astronaut Neil Armstrong says, "Life is out there somewhere." The first human to set foot on a place beyond Earth found an airless, waterless, lifeless moon. Nevertheless, Neil Armstrong is convinced life thrives elsewhere in the cosmos. "We have no proof," said Armstrong, who stepped onto the moon 30 years ago. "But if we extrapolate, based on the best information we have available to us, we have to come to the conclusion that ... other life probably exists out there and perhaps in many places." Two million years after intelligent life emerged on Earth, humans finally have arrived at the moment when science and technology are making possible a systematic search for other life in the universe. During the next 100 years, researchers armed with powerful telescopes, computers and robots could find proof of past or present microbial life in our solar system. And during the next 1,000 years, scientists say, it's no longer pure fantasy to think that the human race could discover and perhaps contact intelligent civilizations on distant worlds. "This is really an incredible time to be living because we've gone from the idea that we're alone on this nice little planet to the idea that anything is possible," said Lou Allamandola, a chemist at NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View, California.

After all, there are 400 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy and an estimated half-trillion galaxies in the universe. "We know there are planets going around other stars, and we know it's likely that some of those planets have the right conditions for life," said Dan Werthimer, a research physicist at the University of California at Berkeley. "So it would be really bizarre if we were the only ones. It's much more likely that the universe is teeming with life." If that's the case, the discovery would revolutionize our perception of who we are, where we came from and what our place is in the cosmos," snip Thanks to the Detroit News 21/10/2.




Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Leonia on Oct 29th, 2002, 1:57pm

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Explanation: No one knows for sure what caused this signal. There is a slight possibility that it just might originate from an extraterrestrial intelligence. The bright colors on the blue background indicate that an anomalous signal was received here on Earth by a radio telescope involved in a Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI). A search for these signals is ongoing by several groups including volunteer members of the SETI League. Time labels the vertical axis of the above plot, and frequency marks the horizontal axis. Although this strong signal was never positively identified, astronomers have identified in it many attributes characteristic of a more mundane and ultimately terrestrial origin. In this case, a leading possibility is that the signal originates from an unusual modulation between a GPS satellite and an unidentified Earth-based source. Many unusual signals from space remain unidentified. No signal has yet been strong enough or run long enough to be unambiguously identified as originating from an extraterrestrial intelligence.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by B J Booth on Oct 29th, 2002, 4:12pm

Hey, thanks for putting this here. This is the so-called "Big Wow, " I have a documentary video on this at

http://bjbooth.topcities.com/videos.html
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Leonia on Oct 29th, 2002, 8:26pm

Thanks for the video link, great site. grin
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Merlin on Oct 30th, 2002, 11:13am

It's a shame they couldn't find where the big wow came from sad


Merlin
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Louise on Oct 30th, 2002, 11:32am

Okay Guys remember the "WOW" Signal in August of 77' if you are not familiar with it here is some info...

The Wow! Signal


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On August 15, 1977 the Ohio State Radio Observatory detected the most promising extraterrestrial cadidate signal to date. The so-called "Wow!" signal received its name from the note written in the margin of the computer printout by Dr. Jerry Ehman. The signal rises about 15 dB above the mean background noise, in a single channel. The actual symbols (shown in the printout below) are a time series representation of the signal amplitude, as received by the Big Ear radiotelescope. The symbols (6EQUJ5) represent the number of standard deviations by which the received signal exceeds the average background noise, on a scale of 0 to 35. For example, a "0" means no stronger than background noise, a "1" is one sigma above the noise level, a "9" means nine sigma above the background level, an "A" would be ten sigma, and a "U" (the strongest peak of the Wow! signal) is 30 standard deviations above the mean background level.

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An analysis of the Wow! signal indicates that its source was moving with the background stars. From its Doppler shift signature, terrestrial interference, aircraft, and spacecraft can be ruled out as possible origins of the signal. The antenna coordinates indicated that the signal was coming from no known nearby solar-type stars. The only condition required for a SETI signal not met was that of repeatability. However, since the Ohio State Big Ear radiotelescope has an extemely narror beamwidth, viewing just one part in a million of the sky at any given time, one would not expect the signal to repeat. Assuming the Wow! signal is a typical SETI-like transmission, then we can expect valid SETI hits to be very strong, high intermittent signals which appear once (as the transit beam sweeps past Earth), and never repeat again.

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Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by rocketman on Nov 9th, 2002, 04:28am

Now listen to the Rocketman about the big Wow!. I think this is just like anything else, if they had received signals, how would we know about it anyway? They maybe carrying on a conversation with them now.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Louise on Nov 11th, 2002, 12:11am

You are very right, but I think there is enough people (amatures) out there that would also hear these signals and they would blow the whistle..just like what happened in the movie CONTACT
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by unknownplanet on Nov 25th, 2002, 7:34pm

Right Louise, and some of these amateurs have some might sophisticated equipement. Nothing goes unnoticed.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by rob on Feb 4th, 2003, 9:32pm

yeh just like the stuff that radio hams picked up the trasmissions from Aldrin and Armstrong to N.A.S.A. and that was in 1969. Just think what they can pick up now.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by theASEXbunny on Mar 30th, 2003, 12:17am

so seti found nothing eh?

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Louise on Apr 3rd, 2003, 10:48am

As far as I know SETI, has found nothing so far..as well as anyone else!

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by rob on Apr 3rd, 2003, 8:16pm

Well maybe they have found noting, but they will keep listening as long as funding is given. It is important that they do keep listening, who knows............one day!
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by FN20ut on Oct 4th, 2003, 2:04pm

on Oct 29th, 2002, 1:57pm, Leonia wrote:
User Image

Explanation: No one knows for sure what caused this signal. There is a slight possibility that it just might originate from an extraterrestrial intelligence. The bright colors on the blue background indicate that an anomalous signal was received here on Earth by a radio telescope involved in a Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI). A search for these signals is ongoing by several groups including volunteer members of the SETI League. Time labels the vertical axis of the above plot, and frequency marks the horizontal axis. Although this strong signal was never positively identified, astronomers have identified in it many attributes characteristic of a more mundane and ultimately terrestrial origin. In this case, a leading possibility is that the signal originates from an unusual modulation between a GPS satellite and an unidentified Earth-based source. Many unusual signals from space remain unidentified. No signal has yet been strong enough or run long enough to be unambiguously identified as originating from an extraterrestrial intelligence.

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by FN20ut on Oct 4th, 2003, 3:11pm

on Oct 4th, 2003, 2:04pm, FN20ut wrote:


Hi Leonia,
I run an amateur radio telescope and have recorded a similar signal as the one you have posted. Please advise if you have made a conclusive determination as to the source of the signal. Do you know at which frequency it was recorded? If you forward an email address, I will send screenshot for comparison.


Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by FN20ut on Oct 4th, 2003, 3:25pm

Well written, BJ
For anyone interested in Search(ing) for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI), I am including url of SETI League homepage. http://www.setileague.org/ You don't have to be a rocket scientist to get involved; just a serious desire to find the answer. Enjoy!
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by PHILROBBINS on Nov 17th, 2003, 5:43pm

TEXTTEXTTEXTTEXT cheesy

i believe that alien civilzations could and most likely are sending out some form of communication. the big problem with communication of this kind is the vast distances the signals have to travel. of course stars that are within 10 or 20 light yrs. of us would only take 10 to 20 yrs to reach us after they broadcasted it . and if we responded would take the same amount of time
to get back to them . providing the signal was translatable and in some form that our people could
translate into. the reason i say this is that even here on earth there are some langages that were undecipherible until a stone called the roseta stone
which was the key to breaking the langage code.

stars which might have planets that say are 1000 light yrs away or even futher the chances of any kind of communication as you would see would be near zero.

by no means am i saying its immpossible to communicate but (and until we find a more lets say faster way of communication techniques,say by folding space or something) we would be limited to just those stars with planets within say that 20 yr. limit
at presen time . cool
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by FN20ut on Nov 19th, 2003, 5:55pm

Right Phil,
We probably will not be able to communicate with them for the reasons you have expressed. But the initial goal, the ONLY goal at present, is simply to prove whether their is, or is not, INTELLIGENCE "out there." Its just as important to find out if there is no other intelligence in the universe as it is to find there is. If , in fact, we do find proof of extraterrestrial intelligence, it will be for future generations to work on the ways to communicate with them. We will be long gone.
This is what present day SETI is all about: To find proof that other intelligence exists, not to communicate with it. We'll never know, one way or the other, unless we try.
Regards,
Tom
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by rob on Nov 19th, 2003, 8:30pm

I agree with you both. I`m thinking on the same lines. In the future we might invent something better but until then seti is where its at and I think everyone will just have to be patient. Who knows they may come directly to us if they have not already.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by FN20ut on Nov 21st, 2003, 1:36pm

Yes, and most leading UFOlogists believe we are looking too far away for proving ET intelligence because they feel they are already here. They also believe they do not communicate via our conventional methods. No one has given conclusive evidence either way. At least, there are many people looking for answers in many different ways.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by FN20ut on Feb 12th, 2004, 10:14am

Hi all,
Below is part of text concerning latest thoughts and strategies about SETI.. (by Scott L. Stride)

("...... SETV is the Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation. SETV is a new strategy - a hybrid of the SETI strategies. Like SETI, SETV is a passive search for artificial emissions from ETI. Unlike traditional SETI, SETV is a local search within our solar system for physical artifacts of ET technology. These artifacts might be robotic probes which emit energies that are detectable on Earth. Being within the solar system it's also possible to directly image these artifacts.

When people hear the term "visitation" they mainly think of alien beings in ships coming to study Earth. Unfortunately the SETV strategy gets confused with UFOlogy; after all, SETV is a solar system search for ETI, and if ET probes can get here at all they might take an interest in life on Earth. Similarly there are large numbers who indiscriminately lump microwave SETI efforts with UFOlogical efforts; after all, both claim to be looking for ET. The truth is the SETI and SETV strategies complement each other; both are the opposite of UFOlogy.".....)

Since most of our own space exploration is being done by probes, the thought is that otherworld intelligence would adopt similar methods. These method are less costly and can investigate more places in the universe within a shorter period of time than manned probes. smiley




Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by minitrue on Feb 12th, 2004, 1:27pm

Just to clarify not all UFOlogists believe UFO's are of paranormal or extra-terrestrial origin.

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by PHILROBBINS on Feb 12th, 2004, 5:31pm

cheesy grinTEXTTEXT
TEXT

ok fellow (ufo nuts,and i may be the biggest one of all)
when i posted i may have not expressed what i was intending. by that ,i know what seti is all about . by this i
was not saying communication was totally immpossible
(two way that is) but that over larger distances that it would be impracticle unless we developed other methods.

also to the one who reponded and said setv, we know we have been visited by alien visitors , probably by more than 100 different species or types. by examining the discriptions of all the different design types reported
world wide. however to be specific there are probably
a dozen or so design types that are more predominately
reported more than the others. there has been speculation for years thar there may be aliens living among us without our knowing about it ,or maybe having knowledge of an area such as a small town in some remote area of a state where it seems that the towns people act unusual or strangly to visitors.(and this has been reported by some travelors over past few hundred years or so ,world wide. even some tv programs are based on what some believe to be
true expieriences of these travelors. making wrong turns or just plain getting lost and then latter after finally being able to leave may not remember how to get back to the place and if they try to find it they can't.

sometimes because it may not seem to have ufo's directly involved with a case but just that an expierience seems to be unusual we (humans ) have this habit of labeling an occurrance as something else (para-normal
expierience or scary). hey just to give you an example ,i live in florida , and there are alot of weirder people than me that live here. and i've heard calif. is sometimes just as strange.

for awhile i lived in the state of colorado in a little
town called called breckenridge a ski resort town.
and it was common for people to make ufo reports
that they saw ufo's flitting around the mountains.
its said that as big as colorado is there are huge sections of it that a white man or even the american indians have not set foot on or even seen. some there
believe that there may be ufo bases buried (not under ground) in the mountain ranges that is not populated.

ok i've rattled on ,and now its your turn to agree or disagree.










few years
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by tabitha on Dec 28th, 2004, 5:59pm

I am new here. Today is my first day and I am happy I came to this site, very interesting. I agree, that contact has been made and like may other things it is being hidden from us. They are watching, monitoring us very closely. I think they will become weary of constant cover-ups that they will reveal themselves for the whole world to see.....one day. Afterall they, aliens, do exist here and out there.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by kumar on Feb 12th, 2005, 09:46am

on Dec 28th, 2004, 5:59pm, tabitha wrote:
I am new here. Today is my first day and I am happy I came to this site, very interesting. I agree, that contact has been made and like may other things it is being hidden from us. They are watching, monitoring us very closely. I think they will become weary of constant cover-ups that they will reveal themselves for the whole world to see.....one day. Afterall they, aliens, do exist here and out there.


It is quite interesting to note that a Hindu group, which is gradually gaining support, has come out to declare that the year 2012 is going to the most important period in the history of earth. Although the group does not mention 'aliens', 'UFOs', etc., in its teachings, it is quite evident that it is referring to the very thing that we have been reading about 2012 being the year when the aliens will finally declare themselves. Visit the following site:

http://www.experiencefestival.com/2012

Interestingly, there is another group of Siddas in India, who subscribe to the same belief that 2012 is going to be the Golden Age. Again, that too does not make any explicit reference(s) to aliens and UFOs.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by creolelady on Feb 12th, 2005, 10:19am

It will be interesting to see what actually happens in the next seven years leading up to it.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Razor on Nov 25th, 2005, 6:25pm

To put in a little plug for my friends Larry Dicken and Jerry Pippin their show this week will be about SETI as well as some disclosure rumors from Los vegas Please visit them if you have the time i think it should be quite interesting. The address is :

http://www.jerrypippin.com/
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by duneguy on Feb 7th, 2006, 4:43pm

If 2012 is the year that all is revealed, I wonder how it will come to pass ?

Will it be a sudden revelation or a gradual series of events that leads to an eventual epiphany ?

I look forward to it with great anticipation. cool
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by creolelady on Feb 7th, 2006, 4:46pm

Six years to go!
The year 2012 may turn out to be a big let down too.
I thin things will happen in a progressive manner as they have been. Perhpas there will be an acceleration of info coming out due to something happening.
It will be interesting to see where the Decade of Contact takes us as well.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by duneguy on Feb 8th, 2006, 3:17pm

That sounds like a good probability........ to avoid, panic and overreaction, things would probably progress in moderate increments. Either way, I feel we are in for some interesting surprises. shocked
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by oljack666 on Feb 8th, 2006, 3:22pm



For that matter you two, don't forget that nobody knows the time but God. For this reason, there is no way in the world it could ever land on a date prepared by man, except for those that don't believe in the Word.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Ashiana24 on Aug 15th, 2006, 11:56am

With Multi-Beam Receiver, SETI@home Takes Giant Step Forward

It has been two years now since the seven pronged multi-beam receiver was hoisted above the Arecibo radio telescope and installed in the Gregorian dome, 500 feet above the surface of the dish. During this time the new receiver had become an inseparable part of the regular operations at Arecibo, providing a new and indispensable resource for teams of scientists from around the world. But it was only two months ago that members of the SETI@home team headed down to Arecibo to join the fray. In seven intense days spent at the radio telescope Chief scientist Dan Werthimer and his colleagues completely overhauled the way SETI data is gathered at Arecibo, and ensured that SETI@home will henceforth enjoy the benefits of gathering data with the most advanced equipment anywhere in the world.

For rest of article, please click link below.

http://ashiana.conforums.com/index.cgi

~ Ashiana

http://www.planetary.org/programs/projects/setiathome/setiathome_20060814.html
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by creolelady on Aug 18th, 2006, 07:14am

In the following article, Seth Shostak explains that there couldn't be a cover-up of the discovery of a signal. He explains the protocol fo what would take place for all of us who doubt that SETI would be open about such a discovery:

http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_whatif_060817.html


Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by creolelady on Aug 25th, 2006, 11:11pm

Here is another good article about alien life possibilities. We seem to be learning so much more about life on our planet these days, and it is opening many more minds to what else might be out there....

http://www.livescience.com/othernews/060823_oxygen_world.html
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by contact on Apr 18th, 2007, 6:29pm

Did you hear about the Rocket nasa sent into space? They said that it has little carvings in it and will pass neptune in two thausand years or something and then i heard about a message Nasa sent saying stuff about Earth and It should reach this one galaxy in about 400,000 years! And i heard that the government will let out all the documents on Roswell in 2017 is that true?
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by contact on Apr 18th, 2007, 6:31pm

Thanks for the cool sites! grin
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by creolelady on Apr 19th, 2007, 4:48pm

I haven't heard anything about the release of any documents on Roswell in the year 2017.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by creolelady on Jun 8th, 2007, 08:52am

I decided to put the link ofr this story here instead of starting a new thread....since this is all about the search for extraterrestrial life.
I just looked over this article and thought, oh how nice that scientists are now saying we will find "primitive" (microbial) life in the next ten years. And, how great that now we have the tools for finding many more planets that just may contain some form of life.
We still think we are the smartest and the best in the universe. Funny.
I keep thinking if our planet has somewhat intelligent life on it (although the intelligent part could be highly debatable) perhaps there is another planet perhaps the same age or older out there with a civilization equally or more advanced. If we are watching them, we can probably be more than certain they have been watching us.
In these articles the scientists speak as if we are the big brothers looking for lower life forms.....what a kicker if and when the really older groups decide to set the recor straight!
Anyway, here is an aritcle to peruse.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/space/article/0,,2096473,00.html
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Luvey on Jun 8th, 2007, 09:36am

CL

Quote:
In these articles the scientists speak as if we are the big brothers looking for lower life forms.....what a kicker if and when the really older groups decide to set the record straight!


I really like the way you worded that...!!
So true too......and I reckon we are not long off them setting the record straight......probably in our lifetimes. Many years ago we heard of the occasional UFO sighting.....now they are daily events. All that activity means something.

Luvey
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by VISITOR on Nov 21st, 2007, 11:56am

I may be trying to over simplify things but I have a question that I'd like someone to answer for me.
The SETI project is an admirable one and used correctly it does have a purpose.
I have seen images from the Hubble Space Telescope showing pictures of Galaxies over 1,000 Light Years from Earth and the details are amazing.
Why doesn't , or haven't, S.E.T.I. teamed up with the people in control/command of the Hubble Space Telescope in their searches?
There are many stories/theories that a Race of Aliens, whom are known as the "Greys", come from a Planet(s) within the Zeta Reticula Constellation.
Why hasn't the Hubble Space Telescope been turned to Zeta Reticula and zoomed in? Surely with the degree of magnification that has been shown to be possible it would show one way or another what, if anything, was there.
It may be me being cynical but could it be that the Americans, for instance, already know what and who lives among the Zeta Reticula Constellation, or the Pleiades for that matter?
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by creolelady on Nov 21st, 2007, 12:44pm

Excellent questions Avisitor, and I would really like the answers to them as well. It certainly does make on wonder.....
And with the technology available, if people in those positions actually teamed up, then there would be enough answers to squelch any "conspiracies" or false reporting. Perhaps those in a position to give the answers really don't mind all the conspiracy theories and rumors, because it takes the heat off of other things that might be known.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by ZETAR on Jan 3rd, 2008, 11:37pm

AVISITOR,
I HAVE CONTEMPLATED THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION MYSELF.
WHY ALL OF A SUDDEN DID THE GOVERNMENT ALONG WITH NASA AND JPL...THOSE IN THE LOOP DETERMINE THAT RADIO SIGNAL SEARCHES WERE NOT REASONABLE AND ECONOMICALLY JUSTIFIED.
I INITIALLY THOUGHT THAT MAYBE THESE GUYS (GOVERNMENT) KNOW/KNEW SOMETHING THAT WE(THE PUBLIC) DON'T DUHHH.
WHAT WOULD GOOD WOULD THESE SATELLITES BE FOR THOSE WHOM JUMP FROM VARIOUS DIMENSIONS...MOREOVER...SUPPOSE THEY FASCILITATE A JUMP OR BEND THE SPACE TIME CONTINUUM FROM 100'S OF LIGHT YEARS AWAY....WOULD ANY ARRAY OF SATELLITES BE ABLE TO DETECT A SIGNAL.
WELL MAYBE ONE DAY THEY'LL BE SOME TYPE OF INTERGALACTIC TRUCKER WHOM WILL KEEP THAT MIKE KEYED UP FOR EGOS SAKE AND WE'LL FINALLY HAVE FIRST CONTACT...BREAKER,BREAKER grin
SHALOM...ZETAR cool
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by creolelady on Jan 4th, 2008, 08:48am

That's a big 10:4 Zetar. grin
One day, they will figure this out, but when will that one day be? I am an impatient type sometimes.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by ZETAR on Jan 4th, 2008, 10:00pm

MAN YOU ARE A QUICK 10:4 STUDY cool
YOU ALWAYS SURPRISE ME CREOLELADY wink
IS THAT IMPATIENCE A GAL THING? HANDS ON THE HIP TAPPING THAT FOOT...TAP,TAP,TAP...I CAN SEE YOU LIKE MY COUSIN VINNIE grin
WELL I'M INSENSED THAT SO LITTLE HAS OCCURED AS WELL...AT LEAST PUBLICALLY.
SHALOM...ZETAR cool
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Orenshii on Feb 24th, 2008, 11:16am

Anyone ever thought that maybe some of these "greys" might be comings from the magellic clouds? (small and large) both which are glalaxies, however their smaller than normal galaxies. And apperently their on a collision course with the milkyway. Said it will add somthing like 15% (combines large and small magellic clouds) They are the 2 closest galaxies, maybe were hearing contact from them because maybe one of our races is in severe danger?

here is a page that has a lil map showing close galaxies. its not the best in the world but you could see how the lmc and smc could colliade with us very easily.

http://www.creationdiscovery.org/cdp/articles/Lsu7.html

Orenshii
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by ZETAR on Feb 26th, 2008, 11:53pm

HEY ORENSHII,
EXCELLENT OBSERVATION...
MORE THAN LIKELY THERE ARE SPECIFIC REASONS FOR THE MULTIPLE OFF-WORLD SPECIES WHOM COME TO THIS PLANET...
AGAIN ONE MUST QUESTION WHETHER AT A TIME WHEN MAN HAD NOT DEVELOPED...WAS ANOTHER SPECIES HERE...
EARTH WAS COVERED BY WATER SOME TIME AGO ...AT LEAST 90% WAS WATER...WHOSE TO SAY THAT AN AQUATIC SPECIES DID NOT PRECEDE US.
CLEARLY MANY SPECIES HAVE COME AND GONE DUE TO AN ABILITY OR LACK THEREOF TO ACCLIMATE TO GEOLOGICAL/ATMOSPHERIC/CATASTROPHIC EVENTS WHICH HAVE OCCURED.
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT WE COHABITATE THIS PLANET WITH SPECIES WHICH WE DEEM AS ALIEN WHOM MAY HAVE A FEW EONS OF TECHNOLOGICAL GROWTH ON US...WELL THE QUESTION IS WHERE ARE THEIR CITIES?
MUCH LIKE SPACE...THE DEEPEST TRENCHES IN THE OCEANS REMAIN UNEXPLORED DUE TO THE LIMITATIONS OF OUR PRESENT DAY TECHNOLOGY...MAYBE ONE DAY wink
I ADMIRE YOUR CURIOSITY wink!!!
SHALOM...ZETAR cool

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Nephilim on Feb 27th, 2008, 12:44am

That is a good point. The two clouds and our galaxy will one day merge. This will have of course dramatic repercussions for all lifeforms within our galaxy and the two massive cloud/star clusters. A great sci-fi book could be created based off that idea alone. Imagine all the cool adventures from an inter-galactic effort to expand and preserve their lives from certain doom. We have time but apparently that timescale just got changed!

On the other hand, for us humans here on the earth; by the time this grand merger occurs our Sun will be a burnt out husk...

Before the Sun becomes a burnt out husk, the Sun will have a great increase of released energy as the star dies. The result is that the Sun will expand. the heat/radiation will expand to just beyond or around Mars... which means the earth is toast, a roasting fireball swirling around its dying star.

Do not forget that our solar system has experienced a relatively 'peaceful' period because it has been traveling in a less active place in our galaxy... we are heading into a more active part of the galaxy now and are in for an unknown bumpy ride. This raises a variety of concerns.

So, for us humans, we have more immediate troubles in our future.

It is funny, but I was thinking of this prospect and considered beginning a thread based on the theme of what humans can do to survive as a species. We are talking long-term goals here. We need off this planet and to colonize space. We HAVE to do this! Yes, we could waste another hundred years of ignoring our imminent fate as a planet and still probably expand further, but we need to start seriously considering to at least formulate a plan. An international plan. A public plan. Remember this would be very long-term plan, over the span of hundreds of years... we are talking about not only getting off of the planet, but getting out of the solar system! It is a must if future humans are to exist. Eventually we will need to get out of this galaxy altogether, before this grand collision/merger... or at least by that time have the knowledge to calculate what exactly the merger will do, perhaps there will be unaltered places to go within the galaxy to sustain life. I guess we will leave those problems up to the ones who are there, but it is cool to ponder. smiley
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by creolelady on Feb 27th, 2008, 5:01pm

I really agree that we need to have the capability to get off this planet in the future. One day it will be a matter of the species survival. Of course, we can be pretty sure all will not be able to get off in time, so there needs to be a movement towards gradual colonization somewhere out there......what will that bring? Who knows what we will encounter on other worlds.....exciting in some ways, concerning in others. we have been a race who believed we were so special in the universe, now we may have to go knocking on a neighbor's door for help. Hopefully they will let our descendants in when that time comes.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Nephilim on Feb 27th, 2008, 9:49pm

Very good point CL. Indeed there will be many missions that will end quite grim for the expansionist settlers, but others will succeed. We need only one relatively free planet from which to sustain the species but it would be nice to think more would be successful as well.

The greatest scenario would be to find a planet similar to the earth and the life thriving on it would be more primitive when it comes to intelligent consciousness. I am thinking in terms of the highest chance for survival. Hopefully by this time, humanity will have grown up a bit and will not overly exploit the newly found planet.

If we found it today, we'd violate it quickly, but let us consider 100 years from now or longer... with the way technology is going, if we last over 100 more years as a species, with these vast advancements, then it will be because we have taken some steps on a spiritual level and with those steps will come also a change in the way we behave. Even if we have a global tyrannical era on this world, like all tyrannical systems, it will eventually crumble. Maybe after this time people will reject the old ways of doing things and truly search for their spiritual roots.

So we find a sustainable planet, colonize it, and once the population has grown well and sustained city infrastructures and what not, they launch their own missions of colonization... If enough newly colonized planets conduct these missions, the chances increase we will stumble upon a world with grand natural elements which would be very foreign to us here on Earth... perhaps with the change of different elements climates and conditions that would certainly be found on the colonized planets, combined with the technology that particular settlement has brought with them, they can advance enough to discover the secrets of true travel, from there branch to other galaxies... hopefully these various branched, independent colonies on the newly found planets would still communicate with one another, rather than creating any rivalries based on pride or greed, again hopefully we will have done away with such thinking by this time, and will communicate the many elements and advancements they learn.

It all begins with us smiley
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by creolelady on Feb 28th, 2008, 10:11pm

Yes Nephilim, we are the beginning.....perhaps in our children or Grandchildren's lifetimes, the pathfinders will be sent out to carry on the next steps.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Orenshii on Feb 29th, 2008, 7:09pm

on Feb 28th, 2008, 10:11pm, creolelady wrote:
Yes Nephilim, we are the beginning.....perhaps in our children or Grandchildren's lifetimes, the pathfinders will be sent out to carry on the next steps.



Now that is a dream amoungst dreams. I could only dream myself of a day where humans will not just be known on earth but in the universe.

Orenshii
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Unium on Apr 21st, 2008, 09:57am

on Feb 29th, 2008, 7:09pm, Orenshii wrote:
Now that is a dream amoungst dreams. I could only dream myself of a day where humans will not just be known on earth but in the universe.

Orenshii


hey Orenshii, we probably are known in the universe ( ok thats maybe a bit too much, maybe in a few galaxies?) Lets just hope more and more UFO's decide to visit us, one day our species will be made public ^^

Peace to you

cool
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Jul 28th, 2008, 6:57pm

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/69743
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by UFOz on Oct 4th, 2008, 9:02pm

I think that the Gov. is hiding UFOs and Aliens from us to prevent wide spread panic.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by ZETAR on Oct 5th, 2008, 12:27am

HEY UFOZ,
WELCOME TO THE FORUM.
YEAH...THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY...MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE TO IT...BUT I THINK YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK wink

SHALOM...ZETAR cool
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by TrueGlo on Oct 10th, 2008, 4:44pm

on Oct 12th, 2002, 8:34pm, B J Booth wrote:
When you think about it, almost every week or two we hear new details of something the government did back in the 50s, 60s, and so on. It won't be too long until they will be revealing experiments, and knowledge that the government had in the 90s and the first decade of this century. It only stands to reason that ET contact is one of them.



*****Well I thinks is very truth the gov is always trying to deceit US and lie about what the really know because most people are not mentally capable to handle the truth and the more we are informed the bigger the treath we are to them! feel me? lol
Hey I have this very interesting video I want you to see it and let me know what you thinkhuh?? huh
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by VISITOR on Oct 28th, 2008, 12:09pm

Can someone please explain to me why SETI are continuing with their current programme of searching for ET by broadcasting on Millions of channels?
In 1974 they broadcast a Binary coded message to the cluster M13. This cluster of Stars is 25,000 Light Years from Earth and therefore any message sent will not be recieved, if there is any intelligent life within M13, for 25,000 Light Years. What damned good is that?
It has been proposed/suggested that ET resides within the Zeta Reticula System or the Pleiades Systems. Would it not make more sense to direct messages to these Systems? If this is unsuccessful then the main search could be directed to Stars within 50 Light Years initially gradually expanding to Stars within 100 Light Years and progressing in 50 Light Year stages.
Just blasting signals willy-nilly into Space is like trying to hit a moving target in a fog-bank at night, or am I being too simplistic?
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Ashiana24 on Oct 28th, 2008, 12:25pm

on Oct 28th, 2008, 12:09pm, VISITOR wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why SETI are continuing with their current programme of searching for ET by broadcasting on Millions of channels?
In 1974 they broadcast a Binary coded message to the cluster M13. This cluster of Stars is 25,000 Light Years from Earth and therefore any message sent will not be recieved, if there is any intelligent life within M13, for 25,000 Light Years. What xxxxed good is that?
It has been proposed/suggested that ET resides within the Zeta Reticula System or the Pleiades Systems. Would it not make more sense to direct messages to these Systems? If this is unsuccessful then the main search could be directed to Stars within 50 Light Years initially gradually expanding to Stars within 100 Light Years and progressing in 50 Light Year stages.
Just blasting signals willy-nilly into Space is like trying to hit a moving target in a fog-bank at night, or am I being too simplistic?


Hi Visitor,

I don't think you're being simplistic at all. I know NASA has a reputation for being deceptive, and SETI is one of NASA's programs. I think more than likely NASA wants us to believe they are really serious about searching for other life. And what's to say they'd tell us anyway if they discovered higher forms of life out there.

I don't believe anything NASA has to say; and hence, I don't believe anything SETI has to say.

~ Ashiana
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by VISITOR on Oct 28th, 2008, 1:04pm

I think that I might have a little more faith in SETI if they worked in conjunction/hand in hand with the Hubble Space Telescope. The resolution of the pictures that Hubble is capturing are fantastic. Wouldn't it make more sense to direct Hubble to the same targets that SETI are aiming at? Any positive results would surely be stupendous.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Steve_1964 on Oct 28th, 2008, 6:12pm

on Oct 28th, 2008, 1:04pm, VISITOR wrote:
I think that I might have a little more faith in SETI if they worked in conjunction/hand in hand with the Hubble Space Telescope. The resolution of the pictures that Hubble is capturing are fantastic. Wouldn't it make more sense to direct Hubble to the same targets that SETI are aiming at? Any positive results would surely be stupendous.



good call m8 ..... good call
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by VISITOR on Oct 29th, 2008, 09:42am

The reluctance of the Hubble Deep Space Programme and SETI to work together tells me that " the powers that be " already know the answers to the questions that we want answered.
Is there already an " agreement of co-operation " between the Government of the United States and an Alien Race which prohibits disclosure of any sort?
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Dec 2nd, 2008, 06:49am

Is There Intelligent Life on Earth?
http://www.creationmoments.com/creation-vs-evolution/2008/12/01/is-there-intelligent-life-on-earth/
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Dec 5th, 2008, 12:27pm

here's a good read
Probing the cosmos: Is anybody out there?
http://cleanpieces.livejournal.com/4963.html

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Dec 6th, 2008, 04:31am

Search for alien engineering comes up dry – so far
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16210-search-for-alien-engineering-comes-up-dry--so-far.html
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Dec 9th, 2008, 2:33pm

World Community Grid: Doing good while doing nothing
http://socialmediaforchange.com/?p=50#comment-105
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Dec 11th, 2008, 05:32am

Could Advanced Technological Civilizations Exist at the Edge of the Milky Way?
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/12/could-advanced.html
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Dec 11th, 2008, 07:10am

"Life Beyond Earth and the Mind of Man"
http://inspiringscience.blogspot.com/2008/12/life-beyond-earth-and-mind-of-man.html
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Dec 12th, 2008, 5:53pm

Photos: Searching the heavens for life
http://news.cnet.com/2300-11397_3-6248324-1.html?part=rss&subj=news
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Dec 19th, 2008, 1:42pm

Ocean-bearing Planets: Looking For Extraterrestrial Life In All The Right Places
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081215091011.htm
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Jan 12th, 2009, 2:10pm

Looking for ET's Flashlight: Optical SETI
http://www.planetary.org/radio/show/00000323/
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Jan 20th, 2009, 04:58am

Russia Proposes Mission to Search for Evidence of Astroengineering
http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/19/russia-proposes-mission-to-search-for-evidence-of-astroengineering/
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by eedisonikk on Feb 25th, 2009, 6:26pm

S.E.T.I. SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE

What a joke!, Searching for Alien Intelligence , why would they be searching if they are working with them.
These Agencies have a sense of humour. grin

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Greg1958 on Feb 25th, 2009, 8:24pm

At the time of the WOW signal I was in the Nationa Museum looking at an antique radio telescope (AKA: crystal boll). All of a sudden the ball started to beep very loud and flashed bright pink light that light up the room. The beeping and flashed increased its pace until it made a long screeching soung like 40 metal chairs being draged accross the room (there were no chairs) and the pink light was continouos. Then the paice started to slow down again until it was gone.

When it first started a man ran around ordering everone out.

Of course you already know there was a UFO seen at the same time.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Feb 26th, 2009, 1:41pm

l found this blog and thought you all may like the read,
http://theboard.byu.edu/index.php?area=viewall&id=50445
l have studied most,if not all, forms of radio communication and find the whole subject fascinating
to say the least.Just think how long we all existed before radio waves were discovered and then used as a form of communication.l often wonder what other forms of communication are there, waiting for us to discover them?
you can bounce a radio signal off the moon back to earth
radio hams do it all the time for fun.it could be that we could easily communicate with other off world civilisations,maybe we are just going about it all the wrong way.
john


"How would you go about attempting to start communication with an alien being with whom you shared no common language? "
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by FN20ut on Feb 26th, 2009, 3:26pm

I think that "music" is universal and expresses feelings and emotions. It would probably make a good beginning for communication. I think that was being indicated in the movie "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind".
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by eedisonikk on Mar 7th, 2009, 9:54pm

It could be true but I'm sure they already know our language already, I see them on CNN, talking.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Tearman on Apr 12th, 2009, 05:19am

on Feb 26th, 2009, 3:26pm, FN20ut wrote:
I think that "music" is universal and expresses feelings and emotions. It would probably make a good beginning for communication. I think that was being indicated in the movie "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind".


from: http://www.dana.org/news/cerebrum/detail.aspx?id=8964
Quote:
In 2004, Ian McDonald, M.D., a British neurologist and amateur classical pianist, experienced a stroke that damaged a fairly small area of his brain. As a result, he temporarily lost his ability to read and play music from a score, as well as to appreciate music emotionally.

Obviously, a person requires certain neural pathways in order to appreciate music. Aliens wouldn't have these kinds of neural pathways because they are not related to us. Music could not be universal becuase what we 'hear' as music is a fabrication within our own heads: it's only an interpretation of stimuli that belongs to humans and possibly some other related animals.

Quote:
Russia Proposes Mission to Search for Evidence of Astroengineering

Very interesting. I was hoping to see a list of kinds of astroengineering feats they might be looking for... other than the dyson sphere.

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by VISITOR on Apr 23rd, 2009, 5:50pm

S.E.T.I. is nothing more than a smoke-screen. It's a huge joke that supposedly cost Millions of Dollars to run. What a way to " scam " money from the American people that could be put to far better uses.
I personally believe that ET is out there but we wont find any evidence that they are actually there until they want to be found.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by cryptoufo on Oct 6th, 2009, 10:04am

i download the seti@home program few years ago. i really like to help them and to find aliens signals from space. until now didnt found a high signal and it made my computer going slow.....
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Seeker on Oct 6th, 2009, 7:31pm

on Oct 6th, 2009, 10:04am, cryptoufo wrote:
i download the seti@home program few years ago. i really like to help them and to find aliens signals from space. until now didnt found a high signal and it made my computer going slow.....


I live not far from the S.E.T.I. array. It's never impressed me much. I don't think that is how aliens can/do/will contact the human race wink
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by john12345 on Mar 18th, 2010, 6:57pm

Ufo Videos Document Evidence Of Strange Crafts, Also Sighted By Previous Presidents
http://www.wwseti.us/126/ufo-videos-document-evidence-of-strange-crafts-also-sighted-by-previous-presidents/
courtesy of world wide seti
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Swamprat on Jul 14th, 2010, 6:02pm

PhysicsWorld.com

Huge telescope will struggle to find extraterrestrial life


Jul 13, 2010

The largest radio telescope ever to be constructed will struggle to listen in on extra-terrestrial civilizations like our own, according to two astronomers in the UK. Their calculations suggest that when the Square Kilometre Array (SKA) starts work in 2022 it will find it difficult to tune into radio signals from alien civilizations with Earth-like technology. The finding, they say, is further evidence that scientists must take a multidisciplinary approach to the hunt for intelligent life that doesn't just rely on detecting radio signals.

The Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) has been patiently eavesdropping on the galaxy for potential alien signals for over 50 years, so far without success. As one of its many scientific objectives, the SKA will join the search in 2022, hoping to answer the age-old question of whether our civilization really is unique.

However, research by Duncan Forgan, at the University of Edinburgh, and Bob Nichol, at the University of Portsmouth, suggest that its chances of finding human-like civilizations are slim: just one in 10 million.

They built a computer model of a mock Milky Way galaxy to see how many intelligent civilizations it could likely support. "We wanted to give as strong as an assessment as we could for using the latest radio telescopes for SETI," Forgan told physicsworld.com. The pair threw into the mixing pot the latest data on, among other things, stellar evolution, planetary system formation and habitable zones – the area around a star warm enough for a planet to have liquid water on its the surface.

10,000 civilizations per galaxy

To calculate the best-case scenario for SKA success, they optimistically assumed that if an Earth like planet sits in the habitable zone it would always go on to host intelligent life. From this they were able to populate the galaxy with intelligent life by assigning stars random properties from a statistical distribution. Having run the model 30 times they found the average galaxy would be home to about 10,000 intelligent civilizations.

"We now have a data set of galactic civilizations over time and space," said Forgan. "But there are factors which can prevent a civilization from being eavesdropped on: the civilization could destroy itself or be extinguished by an asteroid impact. However, more likely is that an advance in technology could make them harder to detect, " he added.

On Earth, we have been leaking radio signals into space for almost a century and any nearby civilization could eavesdrop on our signals. Indeed SKA could detect us if it were placed anywhere up to 100 parsecs – 326 light-years – away. However, as our technology is improving, and the power required to generate such signals is decreasing, we are moving from a "radio loud" to a "radio quiet" planet.

Too old for loud radio

With these factors in mind Forgan and Nichol combined their galactic population findings with the constraints on mass extinction, based on the Earth's fossil record, and the idea that a civilization is only "radio loud" for its first 100 years. They found the chances of radio communication between us and an Earth-like or a short-lived civilization, within the 100 parsec sensitivity limit of the SKA, to be one in 10 million.

However, this finding only applies to civilizations with technology akin to our own; it does not rule out stumbling across signals from a more highly developed civilization.

Read more:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/43173

IMHO, the odds would be better than that. OK, the ‘scope has a range of 100parsecs (326 light years). OK, advanced civilizations move THROUGH a period of “radio loud” to a condition of “radio quiet”. That does not mean their “loud radio” signals blink out when they switch to “quiet”. Those signals would continue to travel outward. We could conceivably stumble across loud radio signals from a civilization that has been quiet for several hundred years (at least 326). That increases the odds, does it not?
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Swamprat on Aug 3rd, 2010, 12:59pm

http://news.discovery.com/space/a-mathematical-twist-on-the-fermi-paradox.html

DiscoveryNews

A Mathematical Twist on the Fermi Paradox


Analysis by Jennifer Ouellette
Mon Aug 2, 2010 06:00 PM ET

Interesting questions arise when physicists start chatting. Back in 1950, at Los Alamos National Laboratory, physicists Enrico Fermi, Emil Konopinski, Edward Teller, and Herbert York were walking to lunch when the conversation turned to a recent spate of reports of UFO sightings.

They quickly honed in on the challenge of faster-than-light travel, with Teller opining that there was a one in a million chance that science might achieve this on the scale of small material objects within the next ten years (i.e., by 1960). Fermi begged to differ; he placed the odds at closer to one in ten, making him the optimist of the merry band physicists.

The lunchtime conversation moved on, but Fermi continued to puzzle over the conundrum in his head, finally exclaiming, "Where is everybody?" If his rough calculations were correct, then the Earth should have received alien visitors many times over.

Thus was born the Fermi Paradox, defined as "the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations and the lack of evidence for, or contact with, such civilizations."

It's been an ongoing puzzle for scientists, and a source of inspiration for science fiction authors, ever since.

There's still no truly convincing explanation, but that doesn't keep physicists from trying to resolve the paradox. The latest effort is a new paper that appeared on the arXiv last week by Igor Bezsudonov and Andrey Snarskii at the National Technical University of Ukraine.

The scientists suggest that there is a limit to how big a given civilization may become, based on their models, which show civilizations growing at a given rate, reaching a threshold, then collapsing and dying. And this limited life space, in turn, reduces the likelihood of different civilizations from other solar systems or galaxies coming into contact with one another. (It's conceptually similar to the population dynamics model first proposed in the 19th century by Robert Malthus, among others.)

But there's a twist. If the two civilizations are close enough (in both time and space), the likelihood of coming into contact increases dramatically. Should this happen, say the scientists, the resulting mix of cultures and ideas will enable both civilizations to flourish for much longer than either would without that contact.

They used a cellular automaton model to demonstrate this process, using three basic parameters: the probability of civilization forming, its likely life span, and the extended life span it would enjoy should it come into contact with another civilization.

And if the values for those parameters are just right -- "finely tuned" in physics speak -- then a kind of phase change occurs. But instead of going from a solid to a liquid (or a gas), the universe goes from one in which civilizations scattered across the cosmos are unlikely to meet, to one in which they can. Who knows, perhaps even a federation of various civilizations could evolve -- assuming there isn't an interstellar war, with one civilization wiping out another and taking over their planet (the stuff of good science fiction for decades).

This might explain Fermi's Paradox: we don't have alien visitors (or communications) because our universe hasn't undergone that critical phase change -- i.e., we don't live in that finely tuned universe where the parameters are just right to give rise to mixing civilizations. Or we haven't been around long enough yet for the mixing to occur.

The paper ends with the only conclusion it can draw: we'll just have to wait and see.

The arXiv blog at Technology Review points out another intriguing aspect of this new paper:

"Bezsudnov and Snarskii even derive an Inequality that a universe must satisfy to become civilized. This, they say, is analogous to the famous Drake Equation which attempts to quantify the number of other contactable civilizations in the universe right now."

Ten years after Fermi proposed his paradox, physicist Frank Drake attempted to come with an equation to evaluate the probabilities of alien life arising elsewhere in our universe. It incorporated such terms as the rate at which stars form in a galaxy; how many stars have planets, and of those planets, how many would be habitable; of those that are habitable, how many would develop the kind of life that would evolve into an intelligent civilization capable of interstellar communication; and finally, how long such civilizations would last.

User Image
A funny take on the Drake Equation (credit: xkcd/Randall Munro)

Those values are pretty much unknown, so while we have the equation, we don't have the means of solving it. Yet. We're not even sure exactly how life came about here on Earth, as royal astronomer Martin Rees recently pointed out while arguing against investing in manned spaceflight missions, as opposed to using robotic probes.

But the assumption made by the Drake Equation is that civilizations rise and fall within their own solar systems, with no interstellar colonization. Factor in that, and you've got a scenario more akin to population dynamics -- or one where Bezsudonov and Snarskii's approach might apply.

Drake himself never claimed his equation was less of a solution to Fermi's paradox, and more a means of "organizing our ignorance" on the subject. And he recently revisited the topic in anticipation of SETI-Con -- a weekend event being held later this month to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Drake Equation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmfC51FstIg&feature=player_embedded

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by chupacabra on Mar 4th, 2011, 9:21pm

You can buy the bestselling books on SETI using this link:
{http://ufologybooks.com/index.php?c=16&x=SETI}
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by PowerKnight on Oct 8th, 2011, 3:51pm

I haven`t run through the posts here but aside the romance in the search for ET, Hawking has a case to think about.
I mean it sounds very romantic to seek life throughout the universe and yes I go along with it however it could have very negative aspects regarding us homo sapiens.
Slavery comes to mind as Hawking pointed out, what use we could serve I have no idea but it`s still a very frightening thought. PowerKnight wink
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 9th, 2011, 1:58pm

I recommend the Eerie Silence by Paul Davies....he's the chairperson of SETI. A good look at what they think about this and mainstream science's outlook on ET and contact.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 10th, 2011, 11:39pm

You could probably call it more than eerie silence, Life appears to be universal. It has been found in the harshest environments on the planer. And while scientists rush to try and discredit the findings, they can't discount the fact that complex life form animals live in the Chernobyl area which are too radioactive to eat. Now we're aware that simple life forms can hitch a ride on rock, hibernate, and survive trip through interplanetary space. With life being this adaptable, we should have made contact by now.

There can only be one explanation. For whatever reason, extraterrestrials do not want humans to confirm their existence. One can only guess as to the motives.

Has anybody else ever considered the possibility that, provided they exist naturally, extraterrestrials coming here are really sentient androids?
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 11th, 2011, 4:57pm

on Oct 10th, 2011, 11:39pm, icepick wrote:
You could probably call it more than eerie silence, Life appears to be universal. It has been found in the harshest environments on the planer. And while scientists rush to try and discredit the findings, they can't discount the fact that complex life form animals live in the Chernobyl area which are too radioactive to eat. Now we're aware that simple life forms can hitch a ride on rock, hibernate, and survive trip through interplanetary space. With life being this adaptable, we should have made contact by now.

There can only be one explanation. For whatever reason, extraterrestrials do not want humans to confirm their existence. One can only guess as to the motives.

Has anybody else ever considered the possibility that, provided they exist naturally, extraterrestrials coming here are really sentient androids?


Davies touches on everything you mentioned and more in the book. He spends a good amount of time on the machine/android aspect and discusses Von Neuman machine intelligence as well as other ideas.
He takes up many pages getting into evolution and life in the universe in general and the possibility of sentient life and why they may or may not have ever been here.
Well worth the read imo but then I fall on the skeptical side about ufos as ET being here.
He presents an interesting idea that any alien life that has reached the ability to travel interstellar space would likely be so advanced that they would simpy not be interested in us especially if they came by earth a milion years ago or even many millenia in the past. They might have simply looked around and then left.

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 12th, 2011, 01:41am

Which is exactly what I think would happen the majority of the time. Unable to find life intelligent enough to establish relations with, they would simply collect the appropriate scientific samples, then move on. Sounds interesting.

In my mind, any extraterrestrials who would stick around under those circumstances, would stand a good chance of being malevolent in nature.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 13th, 2011, 2:49pm

on Oct 12th, 2011, 01:41am, icepick wrote:
Which is exactly what I think would happen the majority of the time. Unable to find life intelligent enough to establish relations with, they would simply collect the appropriate scientific samples, then move on. Sounds interesting.

In my mind, any extraterrestrials who would stick around under those circumstances, would stand a good chance of being malevolent in nature.


The longer this goes on with no clear resolution nor open contact the more I am convinced this is not your routine space aliens (ET), but 'something else'.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 13th, 2011, 4:42pm

It would be hard to determine what something else might be, but that's about right. If Roddenberry had one thing figured right in Trek, it was the Prime Directive. It's highly doubtful that ET, if they're coming here, would initiate contact with a species as primitive as ours. Not if they're a conscientious species anyway. They might establish a contact or two, seeing as we're at such a crossroads, but nothing more. But you know that they would definitely not give us any technologies they have. It would equate to giving Gengis Kahn nukes.

However, you're right about something 'going on'. You can sense it, feel it, actually you can almost touch it. But who knows what it might be. It just doesn't have that fuzzy feel like some kind, benevolent friend full of only the best intentions. This I can already address. I have a hunch you can do the same. Be it from without or from within, we should brace ourselves for anything in my opinion. And I'm strictly speaking for the average people here. It wouldn't matter whether they meant us good or bad, our governments have already made it clear that they would share no radical information with the populace. I have a hunch that the reaction to something Orson Welles pulled back in the 1930s might have a lot to do with that. And you couldn't really blame them either.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 13th, 2011, 7:50pm

on Oct 13th, 2011, 4:42pm, icepick wrote:
It would be hard to determine what something else might be, but that's about right. If Roddenberry had one thing figured right in Trek, it was the Prime Directive. It's highly doubtful that ET, if they're coming here, would initiate contact with a species as primitive as ours. Not if they're a conscientious species anyway. They might establish a contact or two, seeing as we're at such a crossroads, but nothing more. But you know that they would definitely not give us any technologies they have. It would equate to giving Gengis Kahn nukes.

However, you're right about something 'going on'. You can sense it, feel it, actually you can almost touch it. But who knows what it might be. It just doesn't have that fuzzy feel like some kind, benevolent friend full of only the best intentions. This I can already address. I have a hunch you can do the same. Be it from without or from within, we should brace ourselves for anything in my opinion. And I'm strictly speaking for the average people here. It wouldn't matter whether they meant us good or bad, our governments have already made it clear that they would share no radical information with the populace. I have a hunch that the reaction to something Orson Welles pulled back in the 1930s might have a lot to do with that. And you couldn't really blame them either.


I know many have problems with Dr Vallee's ideas (he calls himself a heretic among heretics), but I think he may be onto something when he says this seems more like a Control System and that we are being manipulated by something other than routine space aliens.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 14th, 2011, 02:50am

I guess you're going to insist I spit this out there. Well, it's probably obvious I have an opinion I'm quiet about. It's just that I don't like stating it online. They come right out of the ether if you catch my drift. But what the hey ....

I'm not sure about a control group, but there is something I've noticed for a long time. It's rather obvious if one has a tendency to notice reaction/behavior, that sort of thing. Our respective governments, they aren't clueless. They obviously know more than the average citizen, they have to. All of those reports are for something. But their behavior pretty much states quite clear that they don't know nearly enough to know what's going on either. It's written all over every one of them that makes an official statement.

But there are more clues. Despite that fact that the big kids on the block haven't been getting pushy with one another for years, just look at the types of weapons we're all working furiously to develop. Jane's Defense Weekly tracked the triangles to us. The Russians have been spotted with some unusual looking aircraft of their own. Which the Chinese are probably funding. There's the ABL, and the railgun. Have you checked out the latest subs that were developed? Almost a starship in tech, just needs to be able to fly.

It's obvious that all of us would like to disarm, this is expensive. But it almost seems to me like the powers that be are running scared of something. I can speak for no other nations about this part, but I know for a fact we've built some extremely remote bases up here on the Olympic Peninsula. Some you can only get to by helicopter. For example, there's one way up above Lord's Lake, and another far up the Hoh River. There's much primal bush before you can get to that last one.

Now that I've gone and spilled it out there, what do you think about all this? Have any opinions? I do, but I've said too much already.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 15th, 2011, 12:01pm

on Oct 14th, 2011, 02:50am, icepick wrote:
I guess you're going to insist I spit this out there. Well, it's probably obvious I have an opinion I'm quiet about. It's just that I don't like stating it online. They come right out of the ether if you catch my drift. But what the hey ....

I'm not sure about a control group, but there is something I've noticed for a long time. It's rather obvious if one has a tendency to notice reaction/behavior, that sort of thing. Our respective governments, they aren't clueless. They obviously know more than the average citizen, they have to. All of those reports are for something. But their behavior pretty much states quite clear that they don't know nearly enough to know what's going on either. It's written all over every one of them that makes an official statement.

But there are more clues. Despite that fact that the big kids on the block haven't been getting pushy with one another for years, just look at the types of weapons we're all working furiously to develop. Jane's Defense Weekly tracked the triangles to us. The Russians have been spotted with some unusual looking aircraft of their own. Which the Chinese are probably funding. There's the ABL, and the railgun. Have you checked out the latest subs that were developed? Almost a starship in tech, just needs to be able to fly.

It's obvious that all of us would like to disarm, this is expensive. But it almost seems to me like the powers that be are running scared of something. I can speak for no other nations about this part, but I know for a fact we've built some extremely remote bases up here on the Olympic Peninsula. Some you can only get to by helicopter. For example, there's one way up above Lord's Lake, and another far up the Hoh River. There's much primal bush before you can get to that last one.

Now that I've gone and spilled it out there, what do you think about all this? Have any opinions? I do, but I've said too much already.


I'm not exactly sure what you are alluding to but it seems you are saying that the world govts know something about an alien agenda and are preparing for it..? Or is this more along the lines of the global cartels worried about the future in general and planning to let the little people die while they hunker down?

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by MysterEd on Oct 15th, 2011, 12:17pm

on Oct 9th, 2011, 1:58pm, drwu23 wrote:
I recommend the Eerie Silence by Paul Davies....he's the chairperson of SETI. A good look at what they think about this and mainstream science's outlook on ET and contact.

Good recommendation. cool Started reading the Kindle version a few days ago. Puts a lot of things in perspective and should be required reading for anyone interested in the search.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 15th, 2011, 1:36pm

on Oct 15th, 2011, 12:17pm, Katterfelto wrote:
Good recommendation. cool Started reading the Kindle version a few days ago. Puts a lot of things in perspective and should be required reading for anyone interested in the search.


It's a very interesting book though it will no doubt bristle the hairs of the hard core ET believers.

grin
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 16th, 2011, 6:06pm

on Oct 15th, 2011, 12:01pm, drwu23 wrote:
I'm not exactly sure what you are alluding to but it seems you are saying that the world govts know something about an alien agenda and are preparing for it..? Or is this more along the lines of the global cartels worried about the future in general and planning to let the little people die while they hunker down?


Either or. Both of your ideas have merit. It's very hard to read between lines when great minds have worked so hard to maintain secrecy for whatever reason it may be. But even with the many drugs we have these days designed specifically to hide it, nervousness is something many of us are capable of spotting quite easily.

And I am very convinced that government officials know something in this area which makes most of them more than nervous. As I said earlier, they know more than we do, but I'm not one to claim I know specifically what it is. Unless I do, or the answer is obvious naturally. On this subject, there has been far too much intentional confusion throughout the years for either to be true. All I seek is input. I will consider any suggestion, but conclusions will not be reached nor stated, for obvious reasons. The possible answers seem nearly limitless to me these days.

It's just that it's strange for some people to appear so nervous these days if you know what I mean. But the human eye is a rather mysterious organ. While its primary purpose is sight, it mirrors the psyche to a major degree. Something drives certain leaders in this area, but what? They seem very unwilling to share. That's as far as my knowledge reaches.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 16th, 2011, 6:25pm

Swamprat, that's an interesting post. The only input I have is that science has shown that life appears universal, even when the environment is extreme. But it's also true that we know of only one environment which supports complex life at this time.

On the subject of faster than light travel? After that experiment involving those neutrinos recently, and all the debate it has spawned, I stumbled across one article that was pretty well thought out. The author asserted that every competent scientist who offers up a theory, points out within it areas where it might fail, albeit in very subtle fashion. And he asked that everybody think about what Einstein meant about one specific point, 'motion is relative'. That states a bit more than the old everything being relative to the point of the observer, doesn't it? Yes, I know, he went to great lengths explaining that. But tie those two assertions together, and what might be insinuated?

Well I'm not going to pretend I could match Albert for intellect, but it does sound like he might have been telling us something, doesn't it? That great mind spent around a decade resolving all the points of General Relativity. He knew best what parts gave him the most trouble. Even though he spent the remainder of his life chasing unification, might we be reading too much into that? Just a thought.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 17th, 2011, 10:10pm

Wu, maybe it's better put like this; something is missing from the major headlines on a daily basis. Everybody senses it, but nobody can determine what it is. As a result, speculation abounds. Most of it far out in left field.

But what? When faced with endless possibilities, how does one find an answer? How do we plan for a future when such an important chunk remains (?intentionally?) hidden? What does that human intuition tell you?

You've said enough already that I know you've thought deeply on this subject. What is it that your gut has told you about this subject? Remember that all of us have encountered this question(s), else we would not be here.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 17th, 2011, 10:42pm

on Oct 17th, 2011, 10:10pm, icepick wrote:
Wu, maybe it's better put like this; something is missing from the major headlines on a daily basis. Everybody senses it, but nobody can determine what it is. As a result, speculation abounds. Most of it far out in left field.

But what? When faced with endless possibilities, how does one find an answer? How do we plan for a future when such an important chunk remains (?intentionally?) hidden? What does that human intuition tell you?

You've said enough already that I know you've thought deeply on this subject. What is it that your gut has told you about this subject? Remember that all of us have encountered this question(s), else we would not be here.


In all honesty my gut tells me there's no secret conspiracy going to happen that concerns an alien agenda...but I keep an open mind about ET having been here then or now. I think the ufo enigma is something other than ET.
But I don't rule out the idea that the super rich and those in power suspect that in the near future things might get rough on earth and they are preparing for that day and the rest of us are on our own.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 18th, 2011, 01:02am

No, there's no reason to suspect anybody is conspiring with aliens. Even though they've undoubtedly been around to whatever extent. Something is afoot though, but who knows what it is? I suspect its far more than the rich and powerful doublecrossing us, but I couldn't say what it is. I will pretty much guarantee you that it's big enough to make that crowd nervous, but that's as far as I'm going to go.

My friends all laud my intuitive and perceptive ability, but that does not make me a psychic. For that you would have to look elsewhere.

To be honest, emotion and personality type seems easy to me. Now if only I would learn to listen to that ...... but you know how that goes, right? Just never can judge somebody harshly .................. I know, there's a name for this.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 19th, 2011, 4:04pm

on Oct 18th, 2011, 01:02am, icepick wrote:
No, there's no reason to suspect anybody is conspiring with aliens. Even though they've undoubtedly been around to whatever extent. Something is afoot though, but who knows what it is? I suspect its far more than the rich and powerful doublecrossing us, but I couldn't say what it is. I will pretty much guarantee you that it's big enough to make that crowd nervous, but that's as far as I'm going to go.

My friends all laud my intuitive and perceptive ability, but that does not make me a psychic. For that you would have to look elsewhere.

To be honest, emotion and personality type seems easy to me. Now if only I would learn to listen to that ...... but you know how that goes, right? Just never can judge somebody harshly .................. I know, there's a name for this.


Maybe it's just rich folk being rich folk.
But have you ever read The Gods of Eden by Bramley?
One scary read if it's true.


Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 19th, 2011, 11:29pm

Yes, that's an unnerving piece. But the same is true of the fact that they buried Gobekli Tepe when they abandoned it. With a hill larger than any pyramid. It must have taken years.

Times before known history are open to speculation.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 20th, 2011, 2:27pm

on Oct 19th, 2011, 11:29pm, icepick wrote:
Yes, that's an unnerving piece. But the same is true of the fact that they buried Gobekli Tepe when they abandoned it. With a hill larger than any pyramid. It must have taken years.

Times before known history are open to speculation.



I did some reading since I am not that familiar with the details about this find ,but I don't see anything high tech here nor alien influenced. Were you implying that..?
A remarkable stone structure for the time period yes..but certainly not beyond human ingenuity. And they found the tools and quarries nearby.
Why do people so often tout these old stone structures as having been built/helped to by space aliens? Another evil aspect to speculation..?
wink

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/modeling-gobekli-video
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 20th, 2011, 5:25pm

No, no, no! That's not what I meant. Gobekli Tepe, while it was cool for its time, is quite primitive. What I was hinting at, is why did they take the time to bury it? The place is huge, so it must have taken a Herculean effort. None of the other sites which appear to have come from the same culture were buried. Granted, they're a thousand or more years younger, but still ............. what would drive a people to literally move a mountain to bury a religious site? It has got me stumped. I suspect something, but even then easier options should have been available.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 20th, 2011, 10:26pm

on Oct 20th, 2011, 5:25pm, icepick wrote:
No, no, no! That's not what I meant. Gobekli Tepe, while it was cool for its time, is quite primitive. What I was hinting at, is why did they take the time to bury it? The place is huge, so it must have taken a Herculean effort. None of the other sites which appear to have come from the same culture were buried. Granted, they're a thousand or more years younger, but still ............. what would drive a people to literally move a mountain to bury a religious site? It has got me stumped. I suspect something, but even then easier options should have been available.


Perhaps it was a natural phenom that covered it (like a flood.... wink) and the archaeologists are simply wrong.
Or maybe it was so sacred to them they didn't want their enemies to have it.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 21st, 2011, 10:13am

Or the priests that ran the place got so out of line that the public simply lost it, and rebelled. Short of inventing a time machine, I doubt we'll ever get past speculation on this one.

No question about it, Gobekli Tepe is an intriguing place.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 23rd, 2011, 4:14pm

on Oct 20th, 2011, 10:26pm, drwu23 wrote:
Perhaps it was a natural phenom that covered it (like a flood.... wink) and the archaeologists are simply wrong.
Or maybe it was so sacred to them they didn't want their enemies to have it.


The site was obviously buried manually, unless it was created in a hole to start with. But you have to keep in mind that the National Geographic article is highly misleading about the size/scope of the site. Only about ten percent of the main site has been excavated as of now. If completely excavated, it would be in close proximity of other sites which are allegedly younger, and have not been buried. The article barely touches on the younger sites, and makes no mention about the close proximity.

I might also point out that the methods used to date prehistoric sites with no organic material involved are at best controversial. They can get within an era fairly well, it's the methods of pinpointing the precise century that's controversial. They lead the public to believe it's a proven process, but within the archaeological community consensus gives way to more than debate. A perfect example is the methods they've used in dating sites in Israel, which some claim are precisely accurate, while others say it is inherently wrong. I agree with the latter group where pottery shards are concerned. The contention that designs on pottery were created only once is nearly laughable. We need only look at the way popular designs of anything were copied throughout known history to realize how absurd that hypothesis is.

But I should point out that something like a flood would not have produced a hill which neatly covered only the site, and composting in such an arid, rocky region would not take place. If so, the other sites would have been buried as well. The latter is the reason one can't point to no known ruins being the reason a prehistoric civilization couldn't have existed (Angkor Wat half buried in jungle after 700 years?), but it doesn't apply in less fertile regions. Like Egypt? Compare that to the problems to be had locating Mayan Ruins.

I do agree with your contention about archaeologists though. No other discipline is as guilty as they in leaving out so much in order to preserve their theories. This is why we are still told that they built the pyramids by pulling stones with ropes, while others in the scientific community continue to test other theories, because even they realize how ridiculous the concept is. How often do we read about the tests conducted on the rope theory? Right. Just because it's depicted on some wall does not make it so. Egyptologists themselves have discovered many times instances where those are outright lies, being merely some claim by a later pharoah, trying to claim the accomplishment of another. Or were the story of something that did not happen, or else the story on another wall did not happen. It seems the Egyptians were far less than honest about their history. If archaeologists tell us so little about that, what else might they be hiding? Or refusing to acknowledge? No other realm of science has been so openly challenged by the other disciplines. I wonder why?

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Swamprat on Oct 28th, 2011, 12:13pm

Open Minds TV

Searching Earth for signs of historical extraterrestrial presence

Jason McClellan
Oct 27, 2011

SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) astronomers have been scanning the skies for extraterrestrial signals for more than fifty years. But one scientist suggests launching a new approach that could complement SETI’s efforts in the search for extraterrestrial life.

Astrobiologist, physicist, and cosmologist Paul Davies has cooperated with SETI for thirty years, but believes scientists might have better luck finding evidence of extraterrestrial life here on Earth. According to Astrobiology Magazine, “Davies wants scientists to broaden their
thinking about how aliens could have left behind their mark.” He suggests that scientists should search our own planet for possible “footprints” left behind by ancient extraterrestrial visitors, “or even analyze the DNA of terrestrial organisms for signs of intelligent messages or tinkering.”

He explains that it is possible that intelligent extraterrestrials visited Earth long ago, and therefore there could be evidence of their visit, but “probability and the length of the universe’s age suggest that any such alien visit would have taken place before humans ever emerged on Earth.”

The evidence could be on our very own planet. We just have to find it. That is, if any traces of extraterrestrial visitation have survived for “hundreds of millions or billions of years for humans to still find them today.”

Davies feels that the search for evidence of extraterrestrial life here on Earth would complement SETI’s skyward efforts, even though he acknowledges that using radio telescopes to listen for alien signals is like searching for a needle in a haystack.

http://www.openminds.tv/searching-earth-for-signs-of-historical

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 28th, 2011, 9:01pm

Swamprat, if one is willing to step outside of the realm of accredited science for a lead, the evidence might be easily found. Try the legends of the Greek Gods, who continually had sex with human women, producing very powerful hybrid demi gods. Does this sound suspiciously like another story from a source a world away back then? The Fallen Angels and the Nephilim?

Scientists shy away from this one like the plague, but those ruins in the Indus Valley really do have elevated levels of background radiation. Complete with epicenters. The Indian Government even cordoned one area off near there some time back because of this. It might be pertinent to point out that these discoveries took place before India started their nuclear program as well.

The same is true of an area near the Great Lakes, and there are forts with vitrified stone in Northern Scotland. The radiation levels, while elevated, are not extreme, as if anything which may have happened here took place long ago.

There is something to the concept of advanced civilizations existing here before the dawn of recorded history. If the areas we choose to build in are any clue, those are probably underwater now, where shorelines once were.

Food for thought. I guess time will tell. But many legends do speak of flying machines which sound very familiar. Who knows? Maybe ET is the descendants of the survivors of something, back to check on their old home?
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 29th, 2011, 3:10pm

on Oct 28th, 2011, 9:01pm, icepick wrote:
Scientists shy away from this one like the plague, but those ruins in the Indus Valley really do have elevated levels of background radiation. Complete with epicenters. The Indian Government even cordoned one area off near there some time back because of this. It might be pertinent to point out that these discoveries took place before India started their nuclear program as well.

?



An interesting article debunking that tale.....do you have actual science links or something else that supports that belief..? Just curious....

http://twitscope.wordpress.com/2008/07/12/evidence-of-nuclear-explosion-in-ancient-india/
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 30th, 2011, 01:13am

No, the link covers most of it. There is only the radiation levels, as well as the suspicious way those alleged skeletons are arranged in the Indus Valley to back this up. Some scientists say a massive CME could have caused the same thing. Others say that would have killed everybody.

There are also some epicenters found there by one researcher from Britain. But he nearly committed career suicide when he published those findings, so now he is silent. Understandable.

If you have a link to an accredited site that can disprove this concept, please share. I have tried for decades, to no avail. Yes, this story predates the internet.

Oppenheimer was the first person to reference this when he quoted the Mahabarrata after the Trinity explosion. "Now I have become death, the destroyer of worlds". As well as saying that it was the first atomic explosion in modern times. Everybody wondered what he meant back in the 1940s, and some thought his mind was suffering from having developed such a devastating weapon. Who knows? Oppenheimer's life took an interesting turn after that.

If you can't provide a link, then I will continue to believe that the place could have been nuked. All of the signs are there, and the scientific community refuses to address it. Or discredit it. That I find strange.

One other thought. Some Cosmologists wonder how a gamma ray burst might strike the surface, if it might briefly hit one spot. But that wouldn't describe the other sites, would it? Until more is learned, I see this as a high probability, but something we need to know more about as well. Yourself?
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 30th, 2011, 02:56am

Wu, after rereading your link several times, and following the endless links found there, I see nothing new. Only the standard spiel of those seeking to debunk the idea, a spiel that ignores science. Not to mention technologies like the Neutron Bomb.

Once again I thought I might find something substantial, but only more speculation and opinion instead. They quote excavations from a time before the street level was reached. Do they not realize that sites like this are buried as time goes by?

Only more of what we complain about. People who read what they like, and ignore what they don't. Had this story originated on the internet, it would be far simpler to dismiss. In the 1970s, when I first found it, it seemed crazy, but the discovery was made by accredited sources.

The reports don't turn up on the net in those circles though, and I don't know the reason behind it. Add this to why the skeletons excavated in Lovelock, Nevada are locked away in university closets. Perhaps they simply don't want to waste time explaining things that don't fit their theories. Who knows.

One thing they can't ignore though, is a map of ruins located in the Indus Valley:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/IVC_Map.png

Notice those two cities on the middle left? This was an alleged river valley civilization. Those two cities are on the bed of a river that dried up during the Pleistocene. I know this isn't much, but it does raise questions. Like what are the chances they built cities so far from their mode of transportation?

There is more, but you get the idea. These are cities that were planned before they were built. Archaeologists admit that. There is far more than the standard amount of mystery regarding these ruins, but no scientists seek to explain why. Doesn't that set off your curiosity alarm? After all, it flies in the face of scientific SOP. If this were the Nile Valley, they would have to build an airport for all of the researchers. I'm highly inquisitive about the low amount of interest pertaining to such a significant set of ruins.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 30th, 2011, 10:22pm

on Oct 30th, 2011, 01:13am, icepick wrote:
No, the link covers most of it. There is only the radiation levels, as well as the suspicious way those alleged skeletons are arranged in the Indus Valley to back this up. Some scientists say a massive CME could have caused the same thing. Others say that would have killed everybody.

There are also some epicenters found there by one researcher from Britain. But he nearly committed career suicide when he published those findings, so now he is silent. Understandable.

If you have a link to an accredited site that can disprove this concept, please share. I have tried for decades, to no avail. Yes, this story predates the internet.

Oppenheimer was the first person to reference this when he quoted the Mahabarrata after the Trinity explosion. "Now I have become death, the destroyer of worlds". As well as saying that it was the first atomic explosion in modern times. Everybody wondered what he meant back in the 1940s, and some thought his mind was suffering from having developed such a devastating weapon. Who knows? Oppenheimer's life took an interesting turn after that.

If you can't provide a link, then I will continue to believe that the place could have been nuked. All of the signs are there, and the scientific community refuses to address it. Or discredit it. That I find strange.

One other thought. Some Cosmologists wonder how a gamma ray burst might strike the surface, if it might briefly hit one spot. But that wouldn't describe the other sites, would it? Until more is learned, I see this as a high probability, but something we need to know more about as well. Yourself?


Uh..the link I gave did a good job of debunking ....it did you read it..?
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 30th, 2011, 10:26pm

on Oct 30th, 2011, 02:56am, icepick wrote:
Wu, after rereading your link several times, and following the endless links found there, I see nothing new. Only the standard spiel of those seeking to debunk the idea, a spiel that ignores science. Not to mention technologies like the Neutron Bomb.

Once again I thought I might find something substantial, but only more speculation and opinion instead. They quote excavations from a time before the street level was reached. Do they not realize that sites like this are buried as time goes by?

Only more of what we complain about. People who read what they like, and ignore what they don't. Had this story originated on the internet, it would be far simpler to dismiss. In the 1970s, when I first found it, it seemed crazy, but the discovery was made by accredited sources.

The reports don't turn up on the net in those circles though, and I don't know the reason behind it. Add this to why the skeletons excavated in Lovelock, Nevada are locked away in university closets. Perhaps they simply don't want to waste time explaining things that don't fit their theories. Who knows.

One thing they can't ignore though, is a map of ruins located in the Indus Valley:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/IVC_Map.png

Notice those two cities on the middle left? This was an alleged river valley civilization. Those two cities are on the bed of a river that dried up during the Pleistocene. I know this isn't much, but it does raise questions. Like what are the chances they built cities so far from their mode of transportation?

There is more, but you get the idea. These are cities that were planned before they were built. Archaeologists admit that. There is far more than the standard amount of mystery regarding these ruins, but no scientists seek to explain why. Doesn't that set off your curiosity alarm? After all, it flies in the face of scientific SOP. If this were the Nile Valley, they would have to build an airport for all of the researchers. I'm highly inquisitive about the low amount of interest pertaining to such a significant set of ruins.


No offense but your links don't represent science imo since and what scientists are you referring to. It clearly shows that no accredited groups ever said these things about that area and that it is loose talk.
My question to you is do you have an actual authentic science link?
Not trying to be argumentative but imo it seems clear there are some exaggerations and eccentric beliefs going on here.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 31st, 2011, 01:06am

Hold on. It may sound like my skeptical mind deserted me on this one, but that's not the case. Reread your link carefully, and you will notice it was researched entirely on the internet. Not so in my case, I first found this long before the net in 1973, and not in some fantastic tales mag. It wasn't possible to pollute a report then in the manner it is now. And please keep in mind that I've never called this a definite, only the best of the known possibilities. They try and skew the dates some, but the truth of the matter is that this civilization disappeared in the same manner Sumer did. In a very short period.

If you will take the time to read this through completely with an open mind, I will try to explain the rationalization one more time. Also, keep in mind that radiation can come from multiple sources. I'm going to include some not nice information about archaeologists as well.

Some omissions from your link.

Neutron Bomb design? Leaves buildings but kills people?

The Japanese cities were nuked via airburst by very small bombs. Not much fallout nor residual radiation under that scenario.

Background radiation is often averaged across the whole planet, but such is erroneous. If a given area has higher levels than the region around it and no radioactive material is present, you have an area with elevated background radiation.

These "cities" were not the bustling metropolitan type we know today. 44 intact skeletons on a single street is definitely a significant number. These were really towns, not cities.

A Google search for an obscure scientist using that criteria? No offense, but give me a break.

You want more? It's there. It sounds like they found the story on the net though, so disbelief is understandable. Too bad they didn't read enough to find out how old this report truly is.

One thing about archaeologists as well. They often ignore clues that stare them in the face. These ruins, ancient Sumer, the Nile Valley, as well as some in the Andes all allegedly were built at the same time initially. Around 7,000 BC. Talk about simultaneous invention. All are worlds apart, and allegedly had no contact. More here in a minute.

What about the two cities built on a dried up river bed? Actually it supposedly became the small stream it is today around 14,000 BC. Since no River Valley Civilization located in such an arid (desert, check Indus Valley pix) region would build a well planned town so far from a river, does this not leave an exceptional possibility open? Maybe the locals are right? These ruins are far older?

Another thing about archaeologists. They still claim Mesopotamia as the first Neolithic culture, correct? Check this link out:

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/a-brief-summary-of-the-earliest-neolithic-settlements-in-the-eastern-sahara/

And this one:

http://archaeologynews.multiply.com/journal/item/708

Why the silence? Take note that when these digs were producing these discoveries a few years back, they were dated as far back as 16,000 BC by most scientists. They missing word is archaeologist. Read carefully in the first link and you will know why. Archaeologists screamed so loud about these dates that the people responsible for the dating caved, and declared them much younger. Is that scientific deduction?

Sorry to stray like that, but I needed to make a point about this discipline. Seems they're willing to go to great lengths in order to preserve their current paradigm. If you want more linkage it can be provided, but it would get very dry and boring fast for some.

I'm just making the point that your link, while better done than most, is still what we complained about in another thread. Albeit the careful use of selected facts slightly out of context makes it sound convincing. It's all the known facts in their entirety, otherwise it's not valid, correct? And to be honest, had I found this story on the internet, instead of a college library 40 years ago? I probably would still refuse to acknowledge the possibility. It does sound a little too fantastic. But try as I might, in four decades I have never found anything to discredit this report.

By the way, other explanations have been offered. CME, Gamma Ray Burst, Ozone depletion, things of that nature. All of these have problems.

One last thing. Here is why a running river would be so important to a town in the Indus Valley region.
:
http://www.travelblog.org/Photos/1427167

the size of their cities:

http://www.pbs.org/thestoryofindia/swf/sind-101-climate_change-stack.jpg

not exactly in the pristine condition implied by the link, is it?

Whew! Done! Your link did try, but failed like all the rest. If archaeologists would only tackle this enigma, they could probably either prove it, or lay it to rest. As you can see, some blaring inconsistencies exist here. Especially those two cities on a dried up river. Oh, here's the map again:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/IVC_Map.png/250px-IVC_Map.png

http://www.imagesofasia.com/html/mohenjodaro/images/large/indus-map.jpg

A couple actually. Those two towns scream something unsaid, they're major clues. I'm not going to claim the obvious outright though, it's pretty extreme, and I could easily be missing a possible explanation.

Now, if you don't see a possibility after that ........... I will understand. This is the internet after all. But keep in mind that your link is inherently wrong about one fact for definite. Background radiation there is higher than in surrounding regions. This ............ has been established. Beyond that, the meager amount of research done on these ruins is nothing if not bewildering. Maybe they're too far from creature comforts?
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 31st, 2011, 09:45am

on Oct 31st, 2011, 01:06am, icepick wrote:
Hold on. It may sound like my skeptical mind deserted me on this one, but that's not the case. Reread your link carefully, and you will notice it was researched entirely on the internet. Not so in my case, I first found this long before the net in 1973, and not in some fantastic tales mag. It wasn't possible to pollute a report then in the manner it is now. And please keep in mind that I've never called this a definite, only the best of the known possibilities. They try and skew the dates some, but the truth of the matter is that this civilization disappeared in the same manner Sumer did. In a very short period.

If you will take the time to read this through completely with an open mind, I will try to explain the rationalization one more time. Also, keep in mind that radiation can come from multiple sources. I'm going to include some not nice information about archaeologists as well.

Some omissions from your link.

Neutron Bomb design? Leaves buildings but kills people?

The Japanese cities were nuked via airburst by very small bombs. Not much fallout nor residual radiation under that scenario.

Background radiation is often averaged across the whole planet, but such is erroneous. If a given area has higher levels than the region around it and no radioactive material is present, you have an area with elevated background radiation.

These "cities" were not the bustling metropolitan type we know today. 44 intact skeletons on a single street is definitely a significant number. These were really towns, not cities.

A Google search for an obscure scientist using that criteria? No offense, but give me a break.

You want more? It's there. It sounds like they found the story on the net though, so disbelief is understandable. Too bad they didn't read enough to find out how old this report truly is.

One thing about archaeologists as well. They often ignore clues that stare them in the face. These ruins, ancient Sumer, the Nile Valley, as well as some in the Andes all allegedly were built at the same time initially. Around 7,000 BC. Talk about simultaneous invention. All are worlds apart, and allegedly had no contact. More here in a minute.

What about the two cities built on a dried up river bed? Actually it supposedly became the small stream it is today around 14,000 BC. Since no River Valley Civilization located in such an arid (desert, check Indus Valley pix) region would build a well planned town so far from a river, does this not leave an exceptional possibility open? Maybe the locals are right? These ruins are far older?

Another thing about archaeologists. They still claim Mesopotamia as the first Neolithic culture, correct? Check this link out:

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/a-brief-summary-of-the-earliest-neolithic-settlements-in-the-eastern-sahara/

And this one:

http://archaeologynews.multiply.com/journal/item/708

Why the silence? Take note that when these digs were producing these discoveries a few years back, they were dated as far back as 16,000 BC by most scientists. They missing word is archaeologist. Read carefully in the first link and you will know why. Archaeologists screamed so loud about these dates that the people responsible for the dating caved, and declared them much younger. Is that scientific deduction?

Sorry to stray like that, but I needed to make a point about this discipline. Seems they're willing to go to great lengths in order to preserve their current paradigm. If you want more linkage it can be provided, but it would get very dry and boring fast for some.

I'm just making the point that your link, while better done than most, is still what we complained about in another thread. Albeit the careful use of selected facts slightly out of context makes it sound convincing. It's all the known facts in their entirety, otherwise it's not valid, correct? And to be honest, had I found this story on the internet, instead of a college library 40 years ago? I probably would still refuse to acknowledge the possibility. It does sound a little too fantastic. But try as I might, in four decades I have never found anything to discredit this report.

By the way, other explanations have been offered. CME, Gamma Ray Burst, Ozone depletion, things of that nature. All of these have problems.

One last thing. Here is why a running river would be so important to a town in the Indus Valley region.
:
http://www.travelblog.org/Photos/1427167

the size of their cities:

http://www.pbs.org/thestoryofindia/swf/sind-101-climate_change-stack.jpg

not exactly in the pristine condition implied by the link, is it?

Whew! Done! Your link did try, but failed like all the rest. If archaeologists would only tackle this enigma, they could probably either prove it, or lay it to rest. As you can see, some blaring inconsistencies exist here. Especially those two cities on a dried up river. Oh, here's the map again:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/IVC_Map.png/250px-IVC_Map.png

http://www.imagesofasia.com/html/mohenjodaro/images/large/indus-map.jpg

A couple actually. Those two towns scream something unsaid, they're major clues. I'm not going to claim the obvious outright though, it's pretty extreme, and I could easily be missing a possible explanation.

Now, if you don't see a possibility after that ........... I will understand. This is the internet after all. But keep in mind that your link is inherently wrong about one fact for definite. Background radiation there is higher than in surrounding regions. This ............ has been established. Beyond that, the meager amount of research done on these ruins is nothing if not bewildering. Maybe they're too far from creature comforts?


I still see nothing fom any recognized science or real archaheological group echoing your personal beliefs on this. Where are the links that show anyone other than fringers believe this? You provided links that had nothing to do with this ancient site other than maps.
Where did this original tale come from that you cannot find the original reference to? It still is unsupported by the mainstream regarding these wild claims and is only on fringe sites. Am I missing something here..?
Who says the radiation is that high, etc..? Where are the real studies..?
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Oct 31st, 2011, 10:20am

I'm only trying to get you to think a minute Wu, that's all. Read my sentence about multiple sources for radiation. There's something else hiding in there as well.

Yes, the concept is out there. But at least I'm not going for selective inclusion like your debunker did. Anybody can lie with facts to push an opinion.

Not saying I definitely have it right either. I would go for a link with proper deduction. Your link ignores some facts. That won't solve anything.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 31st, 2011, 10:38am

on Oct 31st, 2011, 10:20am, icepick wrote:
I'm only trying to get you to think a minute Wu, that's all. Read my sentence about multiple sources for radiation. There's something else hiding in there as well.

Yes, the concept is out there. But at least I'm not going for selective inclusion like your debunker did. Anybody can lie with facts to push an opinion.

Not saying I definitely have it right either. I would go for a link with proper deduction. Your link ignores some facts. That won't solve anything.


What 'facts'' are being ignored..? And where is the data for these 'facts'? Who measured this radiation level and what paper or web site was it published in? Why is an abandoned complex that mysterious ...ancient civilizations come and go... I still have not read any legitimate link about this place being investigated by real science and/or archaeology. It sounds like you believe this was more than a natural explanation based on your personal beliefs about earlier civilizations and your personal belief in ET. Give me something more than just speculation...unless that's all there is. Having an open mind does not mean believing that anything wierd is connected to space aliens and/or ancient advanced humans.
Not trying to give you a hard time, but I just don't see anything truly strange here that connects it to aliens or ancient powers.

ps; I don't see any references for multiple sources about radiation.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 31st, 2011, 10:58am

I went in search of some facts and read several web sites (none seemed that legit) and while several cited that the radiation was high and mysterious skeletons were there..,etc..not one cited names and dates of those who actually did this research and study....and where they published it.
I'm getting the sense that this is exaggeration and mystery added to make these ancient sites look more mysterious than they really are which has been done on many other ancient ruins.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Oct 31st, 2011, 10:30pm

Icepick,
Thought you might like this place.....

http://www.grahamhancock.com/library/default.htm

The intro written by Hancock addresses your concerns about our prehistory.



cool
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by s9999 on Nov 5th, 2011, 5:19pm

Better look on Earth First.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Nov 14th, 2011, 9:37pm

on Oct 31st, 2011, 10:30pm, drwu23 wrote:
Icepick,
Thought you might like this place.....

http://www.grahamhancock.com/library/default.htm

The intro written by Hancock addresses your concerns about our prehistory.



cool


Hancock is interesting. But I'm not down with all of his ideas. He does do far more research on these topics than most before he writes though.

I believe we've discussed this in depth though? It's pretty obvious we're going to be pushing the dates for civilization back considerably, but as we've both noted, what level of civilization? That's the real unknown here.

Let's see .......... sea levels, the fact that advanced building materials deteriorate to nothing in a couple thousand years ........ how many things might help to make anything more advanced than early Dark Ages type civilizations hard to find? Yes, nuclear subs does sound a tad extreme. I believe Plato said Atlantis possessed Trireme type ships similar to those of the Greeks ............

I'll hold my opinions until archaeologists find something. But I'm sure they will. Neolithic Civilizations suddenly appearing immediately after the Younger Dryas ended in multiple remote locations in simply too coincidental. There's still hunter gatherers in the Rift Valley. Humans tend to be inventive by necessity, we don't just suddenly happen to have the knowledge.

Combine whatever catastrophic event(s) happened during that neutron barrage I posted the link for, as well as the fact civilizations turned up in river valleys instead of on coastlines, and you paint a picture of people seemingly afraid of the sea. But any speculation supported by scientific evidence stops right there.

Of course you can turn to legends if you wish. The Fallen Angels and the Nephelim sounds a lot like certain portions of Greek Mythology for example. And Plato's date for the demise of Atlantis just happens to be 12,500 years ago. It's all dependent on how far one is willing to run with it. I'm willing to speculate just beyond what is known, but feel anything more would be foolish. We'll have to wait and see.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by s9999 on Nov 15th, 2011, 07:02am

If people so smart here why they can not figure out this other types that some say come here. Intellegence is hoax here.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Nov 15th, 2011, 7:38pm

Intelligence is not the problem, but perception.

People often see what they want to, but not what they don't wish to. It's a human condition seeking correction.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by MOKSHA on Nov 17th, 2011, 4:55pm

when stuff,
is,
same as,
similar to,
just like,
HOW COULD IT BE ANY THING ELSE?
really.

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Nov 18th, 2011, 12:38pm

on Nov 17th, 2011, 4:55pm, MOKSHA wrote:
when stuff,
is,
same as,
similar to,
just like,
HOW COULD IT BE ANY THING ELSE?
really.



Meaning what exactly...?

huh
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by JonCurcio on Nov 18th, 2011, 2:11pm

on Nov 17th, 2011, 4:55pm, MOKSHA wrote:
when stuff,
is,
same as,
similar to,
just like,
HOW COULD IT BE ANY THING ELSE?
really.


http://www.realityuncovered.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2144
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by PowerKnight on Nov 18th, 2011, 2:56pm

Not sure if has been covered here somewhere...but apparently think it was the late 70s a transmission was picked up by NASA.
It became the famous WOW quote if my memory serves me correctly, they believed it was a distress type call from extra-terrestials judging from the very short pattern transmitter message.
It could easily have been a distress call to another extra-terrestial craft, anyone remember it? PowerKnight wink
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Nov 23rd, 2011, 9:08pm

The WOW signal was actually received by Ohio State on narrow band. No clues as to what the short burst was, and there hasn't been an encore yet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

It seems doubtful that such a powerful burst in the radio spectrum was a communication transmission though. Same old story. Even at our meager level of technology, radio is becoming obsolete. And it's beginning to look like radio communications won't reach beyond the solar system very far anyway.

The reason SETI keeps hitting funding problems is simple. At the current rate of advancement in drive technologies, we may very well beat the signals to any of the more promising systems.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Nov 23rd, 2011, 11:06pm

on Nov 23rd, 2011, 9:08pm, icepick wrote:
The WOW signal was actually received by Ohio State on narrow band. No clues as to what the short burst was, and there hasn't been an encore yet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

It seems doubtful that such a powerful burst in the radio spectrum was a communication transmission though. Same old story. Even at our meager level of technology, radio is becoming obsolete. And it's beginning to look like radio communications won't reach beyond the solar system very far anyway.

The reason SETI keeps hitting funding problems is simple. At the current rate of advancement in drive technologies, we may very well beat the signals to any of the more promising systems.



Good points and Paul Davies talks about many of these issues in his latest book. I recommend it.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by realitybeyond on Nov 23rd, 2011, 11:18pm

The Extraterrestrial Intelligence is
already contacted, but if someone
wants to be paid for its search let
it go on. grin
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Nov 23rd, 2011, 11:36pm

on Nov 23rd, 2011, 11:18pm, realitybeyond wrote:
The Extraterrestrial Intelligence is
already contacted, but if someone
wants to be paid for its search let
it go on. grin
''


''Just for you............. grin




Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Nov 24th, 2011, 12:02am

on Nov 23rd, 2011, 11:06pm, drwu23 wrote:
Good points and Paul Davies talks about many of these issues in his latest book. I recommend it.


It only seems logical that the better informed people on this subject would cover this. I don't see SETI as a waste of time, but I do believe the telescope time is a waste of resources. I guess I am going to get my hands on a copy of that book. One really can't afford to ignore anything released by somebody who has done their research.

Heh, you and I have been there before. Some of the more controversial research is now hidden, and I have a hunch we both know why without even bothering to ask. It's a shame too. People like Kepler, Newton ...... arrived at the basis for some of their greatest discoveries via dinner table speculation with colleagues. Now the practice is near sacrilege.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by realitybeyond on Nov 24th, 2011, 08:17am

on Nov 23rd, 2011, 11:36pm, drwu23 wrote:
''


''Just for you............. grin





Thanks, but it is very old and I live
in other century in which the things
are dating very quickly, your book
by Paul Davis too. grin
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by realitybeyond on Nov 24th, 2011, 08:41am

on Nov 24th, 2011, 12:02am, icepick wrote:
It only seems logical that the better informed people on this subject would cover this. I don't see SETI as a waste of time, but I do believe the telescope time is a waste of resources. I guess I am going to get my hands on a copy of that book. One really can't afford to ignore anything released by somebody who has done their research.

Heh, you and I have been there before. Some of the more controversial research is now hidden, and I have a hunch we both know why without even bothering to ask. It's a shame too. People like Kepler, Newton ...... arrived at the basis for some of their greatest discoveries via dinner table speculation with colleagues. Now the practice is near sacrilege.


The signal is quite clear, there is a bunch
of scientists who cannot stand it and they
say only telepathic connection and some
new science I didn't understand the word
are needed. Maybe the last is about the
so-called psychic code. grin

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftvroscosmos.ru%2Ffrm%2Ffilms%2Fprisheltsy.php&lp=ru_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Nov 24th, 2011, 11:49am

on Nov 24th, 2011, 08:17am, realitybeyond wrote:
Thanks, but it is very old and I live
in other century in which the things
are dating very quickly, your book
by Paul Davis too. grin


You 'live in other century'....which one would that be?

wink
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by realitybeyond on Nov 24th, 2011, 12:08pm

Shall be my century, but it happened
to be for all. grin
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by PowerKnight on Nov 24th, 2011, 3:29pm

on Nov 23rd, 2011, 9:08pm, icepick wrote:
The WOW signal was actually received by Ohio State on narrow band. No clues as to what the short burst was, and there hasn't been an encore yet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

It seems doubtful that such a powerful burst in the radio spectrum was a communication transmission though. Same old story. Even at our meager level of technology, radio is becoming obsolete. And it's beginning to look like radio communications won't reach beyond the solar system very far anyway.

The reason SETI keeps hitting funding problems is simple. At the current rate of advancement in drive technologies, we may very well beat the signals to any of the more promising systems.


Yes back then our technology was much weaker than it is today, we could have made contact and certain extra-terrestial life could already be here and refused to make contact as they already occupy existence here in some form? PowerKnight wink
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Nov 24th, 2011, 8:45pm

on Nov 24th, 2011, 3:29pm, PowerKnight wrote:
Yes back then our technology was much weaker than it is today, we could have made contact and certain extra-terrestial life could already be here and refused to make contact as they already occupy existence here in some form? PowerKnight wink


Yes, if they exist and are here, this is precisely how I see it. They would remain hidden from us. In my opinion, the reasons are obvious.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Nov 24th, 2011, 9:01pm

on Nov 24th, 2011, 08:41am, realitybeyond wrote:
The signal is quite clear, there is a bunch
of scientists who cannot stand it and they
say only telepathic connection and some
new science I didn't understand the word
are needed. Maybe the last is about the
so-called psychic code. grin

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftvroscosmos.ru%2Ffrm%2Ffilms%2Fprisheltsy.php&lp=ru_en&btnTrUrl=Translate


There are possibilities there. But keep in mind you need to apply appropriate grains of salt to this old Soviet stuff? Much has now been proven to be Cold War propaganda. Can you remember that era very well? They actually led the CIA down some dead end roads playing a game of imaginary catch up. Successes in remote viewing not withstanding.

Telepathy I can't address. But I do believe communication technologies exist we've never dreamed of. However, I do agree with the concept that SETI is misguided in their attempts to establish communication with advanced civilizations using technology which has become nearly obsolete to our own.

As for the Cold War material? I only wondered if you are old enough to remember those days well? If not, allow me to inform you that they were ....... different ........ to say the least. At times it was almost like living in a Fantastic Tales type comic book.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by realitybeyond on Nov 24th, 2011, 10:41pm

on Nov 24th, 2011, 9:01pm, icepick wrote:
There are possibilities there. But keep in mind you need to apply appropriate grains of salt to this old Soviet stuff? Much has now been proven to be Cold War propaganda. Can you remember that era very well? They actually led the CIA down some dead end roads playing a game of imaginary catch up. Successes in remote viewing not withstanding.

Telepathy I can't address. But I do believe communication technologies exist we've never dreamed of. However, I do agree with the concept that SETI is misguided in their attempts to establish communication with advanced civilizations using technology which has become nearly obsolete to our own.

As for the Cold War material? I only wondered if you are old enough to remember those days well? If not, allow me to inform you that they were ....... different ........ to say the least. At times it was almost like living in a Fantastic Tales type comic book.


I don't think so and maybe I have to
adress you to Gary Bekkum, Dean Radin,
Russel Targ e.t.c. to ask you them if it is
possible. But I don't think also that the
Russians have been told all their secrets.
It is made for those who can understand
it and it is not even discussed on the
Russian forums, because few people
can understand it.
Yes there was a trial in my country or
Russia I cannot remember exactly for
the leakage of confidential information
connected with parapsychological
investigations. And there are documents
showing the interest of the intelligent
services around them.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by icepick on Nov 24th, 2011, 11:50pm

They aren't discussed for good reason. It's like Sputnik, which was a propaganda ploy meant to make Americans believe Soviet nukes could reign down at any time. In truth, it was years before they had solid fuel ICBMs, meaning it would take many hours to fuel any missile before they could be launched. In other words, nuclear threat not. They would have been pounded hours before the missiles could have been prepped.

This is what I meant. The Cold War was full of that sort of thing on both sides. The second one side suspected the other had an edge in some area, claims would arise. False claims though.

It made for some interesting, actually terrifying, moments. Before the days of the internet, I thought most of these stories had been 'shredded'. Apparently not. Out here on the net, the most fantastic of those stories are turning up once again. And, since many people are out there now who don't remember the first time they came around, they are taken seriously. It's very understandable.

This is not to say the human mind can't accomplish unbelievable things. It can. Where I grew up, we were taught to be more in touch so to speak. No, I'm just saying humanity no longer understands how to do this, that's all. Even those among us who do understand these things can barely scratch the surface. Maybe someday we will remember. Science needs to get a better clue first.

What this requires is belief. The absolute faith you can do so. No doubts allowed.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by realitybeyond on Nov 25th, 2011, 01:31am

No, ask John Alexander which thing
is the sweetest for him in this world
and he will answer you with a smile:
"the psychic thing". I could see also
intuitively some psychic strangelets
comming from America connected
with that movie. But the exchange
of ideas can go blanc too, only in
the informational space.

P.S. http://groupkos.com/rnboyd/remote-mind-control.html

Think about it, where is the gap
in the scence and wouldn't fond
of the problem exchange somehow
information at these possibilities
nowadays.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Sam on Nov 25th, 2011, 8:09pm

Just found this topic are very interesting! I can claimed that I have been successful in search for Extraterrestrial , but that does not mean they come all the time, the last time it came on March 2010. UFOs are regular visitors.

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by realitybeyond on Nov 25th, 2011, 10:35pm

Just found about the bioelectric
shunting at the PK events, as
though they deelectromagnetize
matter to make it possible for
easier manipulating. Why wasn’t
here that representative of
Teodorani we to discuss it with him.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by realitybeyond on Nov 27th, 2011, 10:36am

Yep, I found it, the non-electromagnetic
is inside even in the electromagnetic.

The book is entitled
"Realization of The Fifth Force"

http://migran.trinitas.ru/files/2011/03/Osoznanie-pyatoy-silyi1.pdf
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by MOKSHA on Nov 28th, 2011, 09:41am

on Nov 27th, 2011, 10:36am, realitybeyond wrote:
Yep, I found it, the non-electromagnetic
is inside even in the electromagnetic.

The book is entitled
"Realization of The Fifth Force"

http://migran.trinitas.ru/files/2011/03/Osoznanie-pyatoy-silyi1.pdf


YOUR LINK DON'T WORK
TAKE IT DOWN!!!
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by realitybeyond on Nov 28th, 2011, 10:35pm

It works, but it can be closed for you
as some American sites for me. It
depends also on the browser. IE
is filtering many sites.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by MOKSHA on Nov 29th, 2011, 05:48am

Crazy, this can be done, why is it like this?
why so many secrets?
I thought the world wide web, meant just that, world wide.
I guess I am wrong once again.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by realitybeyond on Nov 29th, 2011, 08:23am

The secrets are always secrets
and there are also public secrets.
If they are at least partially filtered,
the knowledge about them cannot
become a social conviction, because
the most of people are not interested
in them. Haven't you heard about
Tavistock.
But everybody who wants can find
quite enough, because everything
nowadays devaluate quickly as a
knowledge.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by MOKSHA on Nov 29th, 2011, 6:38pm

on Nov 29th, 2011, 08:23am, realitybeyond wrote:
The secrets are always secrets
and there are also public secrets.
If they are at least partially filtered,
the knowledge about them cannot
become a social conviction, because
the most of people are not interested
in them. Haven't you heard about
Tavistock.
But everybody who wants can find
quite enough, because everything
nowadays devaluate quickly as a
knowledge.


here all this time I thought it was a Golf thing.
But if I don't mind will it matter.
If I do, whats to do.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by drwu23 on Nov 29th, 2011, 11:02pm

on Nov 28th, 2011, 09:41am, MOKSHA wrote:
YOUR LINK DON'T WORK
TAKE IT DOWN!!!



The link works but it's in Russian.

huh
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by realitybeyond on Nov 29th, 2011, 11:43pm

Don't worry the most of the Russians
also cannot understand it. I'm waiting
now on one Russian forum to hang
sombody with it. grin
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by RYMAN on Dec 3rd, 2012, 05:39am

What makes you think these ETs want to talk to us, we spend most of our time at war with each other, no wonder there isn't any communication or whatever. huh
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by VishalSharma on Mar 19th, 2013, 11:29am

Hii,
In order to understand why UFOs are appearing int the sky, u need to understand and read book : "Intelligent Design-Message from the Designers". Each and Every answer will be given and will be clear.If u have any question u may ask me anytime.
acet.vishal@gmail.com
www.rael.org
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by MOKSHA on Mar 19th, 2013, 8:18pm

I HAVE ONE QUESTION

what "kind" of evidence do you have?

MKW
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by wmsm on Apr 9th, 2013, 05:02am

Have you ever looked at the atmosphere itself and noticed tiny little black squiggles in it.......sun interference.

This happens in the day time because the Sun stimulates the Earths own atmospheric condition with the light shone upon its face.

Think about what would happen if those very tiny little squiggles became bigger........and the interference increased.....what do you think would happen?

You would begin to see black balls because the signals of interference itself were changed. Interference caused the life of Planet Earth herself....hence changing it changes life itself.

As the interference opens it would cause the other sounds of the atmospheric harmony to fall into it and begin to emit colors and radiance, as a reaction demonstrating that it has been erased.

Look at your TV set off channel and all of the squiggly signals it creates....and think about transmission and what it is.......burnt energy from the previous atmospheric attack on Planet Earth. The atmosphere healed over the interference of the huge Earth burn, as documented in ancient literature and created a new holy life from its signals.

Enlarge those signals of interference and you will see, why they called the Christ the Carpenter (from tectonicus) as tectonic plates, and the spirit (sound) that healed the atmosphere as a real astronomical ancient Earth event. Change the healing and change life itself.

See the Hebrew signals describing the Christ Values, as those same interference signals.......known through their own psychic and spiritual awareness.

jewfaq.org


Review transmission interference
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=image+of+transmission+interference&oq=image+of+transmission+interference&gs_l=serp.12...34890.46373.0.47911.34.22.0.0.0.0.1504.6232.4-1j4j2j0j1.8.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab.8fUppTXujLM&pbx=1&fp=1&biw=1440&bih=817&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&cad=b

Hebrew Zohar demonstrates the ancient spiritual psychic wisdom as a scientific fact

Zohar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zohar


The Zohar (Hebrew: זֹהַר, lit Splendor or Radiance) is the foundational work in the literature of ...... And there is no image or likeness of You, inside or out.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by MOKSHA on Apr 9th, 2013, 05:23am

you will see, why they called the Christ the Carpenter (from tectonicus) as tectonic plates, . [/quote]


I really think you are confused.
rolleyes
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by seti22 on Nov 11th, 2013, 10:51pm

The story of the Message of the Watchers begins with the events described in the ancient Book of Enoch. This book was banned, lost and forgotten for a thousand years. The Book of Enoch talks about "Two hundred angels, the children of heaven", who descended to earth. They explained the calendar to Enoch, which he recorded, "but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come". What was hidden in our calendar for future generations? Vladimir Pakhomov has found this information!
You can check all these facts without leaving your computer.
http://www.pakhomov.com/calendar.html
http://www.pakhomov.com/seals.html

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Swamprat on Jan 25th, 2014, 5:29pm

Looking for a 'superhabitable' world? Try Alpha Centauri B*, says Astrobiology Journal

Source: Mary Ann Liebert, Inc./Genetic Engineering News
Posted By News On January 23, 2014

User Image
Astrobiology, led by Editor-in-Chief Sherry L. Cady, Chief Scientist at the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, and a prominent international editorial board comprised of esteemed scientists in the field, is the authoritative resource for the most up-to-date information and perspectives on exciting new research findings and discoveries emanating from interplanetary exploration and terrestrial field and laboratory research programs. The Journal is published monthly online with Open Access options and in print, and is the Official Journal of the Astrobiology Society. Complete tables of content and a sample issue may be viewed on the Astrobiology website. (Photo Credit: © Mary Ann Liebert, Inc., publishers)

New Rochelle, January 23, 2014—The search for extraterrestrial life extends far beyond Earth's solar system, looking for planets or moons outside the "stellar habitable zone" that may have environments even more favorable to supporting life than here on Earth. These superhabitable worlds have unique characteristics and are ideal targets for extrasolar exploration, as described in a provocative Hypothesis Article in Astrobiology, a peer-reviewed journal from Mary Ann Liebert, Inc., publishers. The article is available free on the Astrobiology website, here: http://www.liebertpub.com/ast

In "Superhabitable Worlds" René Heller, McMaster University (Hamilton, Ontario, Canada) and John Armstrong, Weber State University (Ogden, UT), propose how tidal heating can create conditions in which life could emerge on an icy or terrestrial planet or moon once thought to be uninhabitable.

*A great place for hydrothermal microorganisms and a volcanic eruption in the weather forecast every morning and evening," says Norman Sleep, Senior Editor for Astrobiology and Professor in the School of Earth Sciences at Stanford University, "a tidally heated planet would be unpleasant though spectacular to visit."

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by skizicks on Jan 26th, 2014, 12:10am

Again it comes down to a group of governments that hate each other, even attack each other, all agreeing to hide a secret.
Governments that cannot hide anything else for more than a couple of years keeping the secret.
A vast network of human beings that have an almost pathelogical need to look important, and to share secrets, all keeping their mouths shut and every shred of solid evidence locked away. Something they have never done with any other secret for more than a few decades so far.
I believe in UFOs, I've seen them. I believe that somewhere out there an intelligent species at least our equal exists, it just makes sense. I even believe that this planet has been visited from time to time.
But I do not believe in any secret contact theory. Period.
That, simply goes against all I know about human nature and the capabilities of governments.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Swamprat on Jul 7th, 2014, 12:25pm

Should Humanity Try to Contact Intelligent Aliens?

By Leonard David, Space.com
July 07, 2014

Astronomers have detected nearly 2,000 alien planets to date. As that number continues to rise, so too does the prospect of finding intelligent extraterrestrial life.

In terms of the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI), it may no longer be a matter of answering the "are we alone" question, some scientists say. Rather, just how crowded is the universe?

And if ET is out there, it may be possible to reach out with direct "radio waving" to potentially habitable exoplanets. This form of cosmic cryptography, called "Active SETI," involves no longer merely listening for a signal but purposefully broadcasting to, and perhaps establishing contact with, other starfolk.

Active SETI sounds like science fiction, but some astronomers are discussing it seriously today. The idea is, as it has been in the past, a controversial, hot-button issue, with some researchers wary of sending signals out to touch base with intelligent aliens.

Work in progress
"It’s a subject of discussion, I’ll put it that way," said Seth Shostak, senior astronomer at the SETI Institute in Mountain View, Calif. There have been many workshops and symposia over the years to discuss Active SETI, he said, and because it has a highly emotional component, "it’s like a third rail in a way," he said.
Shostak told Space.com that he feels the topic is not something to worry too much about.

"But there may not be that perception in the broader public … that we have discussed this to death. They haven’t seen these discussions nor participated in them," he said.
But exoplanet detections are making news around the world, Shostak said. "That’s putting the whole question of life in space in front of the public in a way that perhaps wasn’t true 20 years ago.
"
Still, trying to figure out what’s the best thing to do, in terms of Active SETI, is a work in progress, Shostak said. "What is the best way to communicate? What do you do…just ping them with a carrier wave and you encode Wikipedia? If you are going to do it, what’s the best way to communicate?"

Long shot
A few years ago, renowned British astrophysicist Stephen Hawking suggested that communicating with ET could be a threat to Earth.

While it’s likely alien life exists, Hawking said, a visit to Earth by other starfolk might turn ugly, akin to when Christopher Columbus landed in America. That didn’t turn out so well for the Native Americans, he said.

"Hawking stirred things up a few years ago saying we shouldn’t broadcast our existence because the outcome might be bad for us," said Chris Impey, deputy head of the astronomy department at the University of Arizona in Tucson. He co-edited the 2013 book, "Encountering Life in the Universe: Ethical Foundations and Social Implications of Astrobiology."

"He’s right about our immaturity as a species," Impey told Space.com, "but I think the argument is moot since intelligent civilizations are likely to be so sparsely distributed that communication in either direction is difficult or unlikely."

Active SETI, Impey said, "makes us feel a little more proactive, but I think it’s a long shot worse than buying a lottery ticket."

For Impey, the "promising approach" is not conventional SETI or broadcasting, but detection of civilizations by their energy or technology imprints, "and that avoids all the issues of intention and communication and the anthropocentric tangle people get into with that."

Great unsolved mysteries
Adding his voice to the Active SETI dialogue is Steven Dick, the Baruch S. Blumberg NASA/Library of Congress Chair in Astrobiology at the Kluge Center in Washington, D.C.
"I am for passive SETI programs, and in fact would advocate for renewed government funding after a 20-year lapse," Dick told Space.com. "That’s because the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence is one of the great unsolved mysteries of science.".

Dick said that the current NASA astrobiology hunt is centered on microbes, but surely there should be an effort to go beyond micro-organisms and search for complex life with whatever means are available.

"On the other hand, I would not propose government funding for messaging extraterrestrial intelligence. I think we need to find ET first, and then have a period where a team consisting of scientists, social scientists and humanities people consider what the message should be," Dick said.

Different alien minds
However, Dick is not at all sanguine that communication with ET is possible. He thinks we underestimate how different alien minds can be compared to ours — even their science and mathematics.

And that might account for the Fermi paradox, Dick said. That paradox, attributed to physicist Enrico Fermi, is the apparent contradiction between the high probability that extraterrestrial civilizations exist and the lack of contact with such civilizations. Hence, Fermi’s 1950 lunchtime query to colleagues: "Where is everybody?"

"Having said that, it would be very difficult to regulate individual or institutional projects that wish to attempt messaging extraterrestrial intelligence, and I would not advocate attempting to regulate," Dick said. In his opinion, there is an equal chance that ET will be good or bad
.
"We do not yet know enough about the evolution of altruism on Earth, much less among other possible intelligent life forms, to say ETs will all be good," Dick said. "That is a hope rather than a fact."

Directed beam
But haven’t we already revealed ourselves with TV signals, military radar and other outputs into the cosmos? Even music is wafting across the universe, purposely directed toward a specific star.

That is true, Dick said, but it’s not the same as sending a directed beam to a habitable exoplanet target.

"Still, the idea of planet Earth cowering and afraid to engage the universe is not a planet I would want to live on
. SETI attempts are part of our rising cosmic consciousness, and as such cannot be stifled," Dick said. "That this is the subject of such controversy…it’s an indication of how seriously the subject of intelligent life in the universe is now taken!"

Consequences of contact
"Yes, the issue should be re-debated," said Michael Michaud, author of the 2007 book, "Contact with Alien Civilizations: Our Hopes and Fears about Encountering Extraterrestrials."

Michaud is a former U.S. Foreign Service Officer for the U.S. Department of State and a long-time thinker and writer regarding the probability and consequences of coming into contact with an extraterrestrial civilization.

"Active SETI advocates broke with the conventional wisdom of the SETI pioneers, which was to listen but not transmit," Michaud told Space.com. "This change may have been driven by the impatience of younger SETI people after 40 years of unsuccessful searches."

"But Active SETI is not science," said Michaud. "It is an attempt to provoke a response from an alien society whose capabilities and intentions are not known to us."

Those most eager to send high-powered messages want their efforts to have consequences, Michaud said, not just for themselves, but for the entire human species. "There is no scientific or historical evidence telling us that the consequences of contact will be those they prefer."

Deliberate, powerful signals
Michaud says that an alien society able to detect our signals almost certainly would be more technologically advanced than our own, and might be capable enough and patient enough to send probes across light-years of space. Scientists and engineers have shown that robotic spacecraft able to reach nearby stars would be feasible for a civilization only slightly in advance of our own.

Michaud takes issue with the old claim that we already have been detected or that detection is inevitable. Experts have shown that the normal signals emitted by Earth are too weak to be heard at interstellar distances without colossal antennas, he said.

"Sending deliberate, unusually powerful signals is a decision that belongs properly with all Humankind," Michaud said. "We should have an open debate about whether or not to call attention to ourselves by making our civilization more detectable than it already is."

http://www.space.com/26449-contact-intelligent-aliens-active-seti.html

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by purr on Jul 10th, 2014, 12:45pm

I'm with Stephen Hawking on this one, Swamprat. Just look at how evolution turned out on Earth, with tremendous variety in regards to nice edible species like plankton and crops of lettuce, with very limited aggression, compared to superpredators like toothy sharks, intelligent technological apex predators like human beings, then again to viruses that are mutating their way to potentially killing all of earthly life.

Aliens might well turn out to come out of such a mix.

We might be calling out to folks just like us. Or sumtin a lot worse.

If evolution really happened, the best thing is to keep real quiet like, and try solve our own problems before sending out open invitations.

smiley


purr
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by walt on Sep 24th, 2015, 4:57pm

Could the aliens be still looking for the intelligent life on planet earth?
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by MOKSHA on Sep 24th, 2015, 5:10pm

on Sep 24th, 2015, 4:57pm, walt wrote:
Could the aliens be still looking for the intelligent life on planet earth?


I HOPE THEY FIND IT



Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by GhostofEd on Sep 24th, 2015, 5:17pm

We are what we are. Those making judgement on human behavior and intelligence are part of the group themselves. Who's to really say our behavior is out of the norm with other life?

I've always found it interesting how some have such a negative view on the collective of which they share in. If enough people wanted things different they could do it so what does that say? Of course, this is assuming that everything is not orchestrated by a higher power. And if that's the case we are not really responsible for who we are and how we act. Can't win.

ps - BTW, welcome walt. I'm not sure what to make of your story yet but I've read/viewed a few of your reference links.
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by MOKSHA on Sep 24th, 2015, 5:43pm

on Sep 24th, 2015, 5:17pm, GhostofEd wrote:
We are what we are. Those making judgement on human behavior and intelligence are part of the group themselves. Who's to really say our behavior is out of the norm with other life?


Just about the most
nerdy
words
that could
be spoken, I am with the nerds, when it comes to the
QUESTION,
"WHO IS TO REALLY SAY"
ain't that the reality, no one can explain.

I may have under estimated you ED,
and your ghost.
kiss
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by walt on Sep 24th, 2015, 6:42pm

Thanks Ed, and I do understand you reluctance to accept reports of such strange things as I made fun of the people that said the lock ness monster was real for many years, that is up until the day I saw one in the MD bay near Kent Island.

Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Swamprat on Jan 5th, 2016, 5:31pm

Alien Atmospheres: The Search for Signs of Life

by Mike Wall, Space.com Senior Writer
January 05, 2016

User Image
An artist's image of the exoplanet HD 189733b as starlight streams through the planet's atmosphere. Scientists are searching atmospheres on other planets for possible signs of life. Credit: NASA, ESA and G. Bacon (STScI)

The search for signs of life beyond the solar system is kicking into a higher gear.

Scientists are working to compile a catalog of gases that could potentially be evidence of life, so researchers will know what to look for when scanning the atmospheres of rocky, Earth-like alien planets.

"Every way we have possible, people [are] trying to find exo-Earths," planetary scientist Sara Seager, of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said last month at the American Astronomical Society's Extreme Solar Systems III conference in Hawaii.

"We have a shot at finding signs of life in the next decade or so," she added. "The question is, what will we look for?"

Read more: http://www.space.com/31519-alien-life-hunt-biosignatures-exoplanet-atmospheres.html


Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Cliff-67 on Apr 19th, 2017, 11:13pm



"Humanity is on the threshold of being able to detect signs of alien life on other worlds. By studying exoplanet atmospheres, we can look for gases like oxygen and methane that only coexist if replenished by life. But those gases come from simple life forms like microbes. What about advanced civilizations? Would they leave any detectable signs?

They might, if they spew industrial pollution into the atmosphere. New research by theorists at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics (CfA) shows that we could spot the fingerprints of certain pollutants under ideal conditions. This would offer a new approach in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI).

"We consider industrial pollution as a sign of intelligent life, but perhaps civilizations more advanced than us, with their own SETI programs, will consider pollution as a sign of unintelligent life since it's not smart to contaminate your own air," says Harvard student and lead author Henry Lin."

Continue :
https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2014-21


Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Cliff-67 on May 4th, 2017, 4:11pm

High Definition Space Telescope ( HDST)

Spotlight Live: Searching for Alien Life with a "Super-Hubble" Space Telescope (Transcript)


SCIENTISTS HAVE JUST UNVEILED a bold proposal for a giant new space-based telescope that would be far more powerful than today's observatories. Called the High Definition Space Telescope (HDST), the instrument is essentially a supersized Hubble Space Telescope, with 100 times its ability to detect faint starlight.
The multibillion dollar HDST would be a game-changer, and if it advances beyond the concept phase, it would launch in the 2030s. With a mirror 25 times the size of Hubble's, HDST could delve deep into the universe's past to trace how gasses enriched with the elemental ingredients of life moved in and out of galaxies.
HDST also could examine dozens of Earth-like exoplanets that are too tiny for Hubble and its immediate successor, the James Webb Space Telescope, to see. HDST would scour their atmospheres for signs of alien life, perhaps finally answering whether or not we are alone in the cosmos.
The vision for the HDST was described in a July report spearheaded by the Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy (AURA), a consortium of global institutions that operate astronomical observatories.

http://www.kavlifoundation.org/science-spotlights/spotlight-live-searching-alien-life-wth-super-hubble-space-telescope-transcript#.WQuXpNTys1K

cool
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by INT21 on May 17th, 2017, 3:03pm

Consider Tabby's Star.

If it is indeed an example of a Dyson Sphere, what would happen should the star flare ? I assume it must do so as flaring is a characteristic of stars.

Are any planets between it and the sphere toast ?

HAL
INT21
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Cliff-67 on Jun 7th, 2017, 09:10am


Sir Fred Hoyle IFS lecture. 1982

https://youtu.be/hsiFvCYSjHI





Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by A k 9 on Jun 7th, 2017, 12:40pm

on Jun 7th, 2017, 09:10am, Cliff-67 wrote:
Sir Fred Hoyle IFS lecture. 1982

https://youtu.be/hsiFvCYSjHI


Would you not say to yourself, "Some super-calculating intellect must have designed the properties of the carbon atom, otherwise the chance of my finding such an atom through the blind forces of nature would be utterly minuscule. A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question."

— Fred Hoyle

cool
Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Cliff-67 on Jun 12th, 2017, 5:17pm


The martian meteorite was cool. Its probably one of the most interesting lectures I've watched. cool


kiss


Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Swamprat on Jun 21st, 2017, 11:56am

Is It Time to Rethink How We Search for Alien Life?

By Mindy Weisberger, Senior Writer
June 21, 2017

WASHINGTON — From the lovable, candy-munching E.T. to the deadly Xenomorphs from the "Alien" movies, science-fiction stories are bursting with all kinds of alien encounters. But in reality, we've yet to achieve contact — though not for lack of trying.

Plenty of scientists are looking for signs of extraterrestrial life — intelligent or not — using a variety of methods, Seth Shostak, senior astronomer at the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) Institute, told an audience here on June 18 during a talk at Future Con, a festival that highlights the intersection between science, technology and science fiction.

But the more our own technology moves forward and the more humans explore the rapidly evolving concept of synthetic intelligence (smart machines), the more experts suspect that intelligent extraterrestrial life could be advanced in ways that would stymie current efforts to find them, Shostak said.

However, perhaps the first question to ask is why people are so fascinated by the idea of alien life — particularly alien invaders, Shostak suggested. This preoccupation with an unseen extraterrestrial threat may be an echo from our distant past, when early humans learned that survival frequently depended on being able to imagine and prepare for attacks from predators or enemies that you couldn't see, he said.

What we now know about the universe suggests that it's very unlikely that humanity is the only form of life in it.

"Work from the last 20 years shows that there are planets all over the place," Shostak said. In fact, NASA announced yesterday (June 19) that the Kepler Space Telescope mission has discovered 219 more exoplanets (planets orbiting stars other than our sun), bringing the total of planets discovered by Kepler to 4,034, Space.com reported.

Most stars — 70 to 80 percent of them, by some estimates — probably host planets, Shostak added. With an estimated 100 billion stars in our galaxy, that gives us around 1 trillion planets in the Milky Way galaxy alone. Data from Kepler suggests that about one in five of these planets is Earth-like — rocky and capable of supporting liquid water and possibly life, "so now you have 100 billion planets in our galaxy that are sort of like Earth," Shostak said.

And with recent studies hinting that there may be as many as 2 trillion galaxies in the observable universe, that adds up to a lot of planets that might host some form of life.

When you look at it that way, "saying, 'I don't believe in aliens' is a daring position to take," Shostak said.

Signs of life
There are three methods most commonly used by scientists to search for alien life, according to Shostak. The first is straightforward enough — and is also the one that's most popular with sci-fi writers: "Just go out and find it," he said. This includes missions to send spacecraft to destinations such as Saturn's moon Enceladus, where probes would sample water vapor from surface plumes to see if they hold anything interesting.

The final method — and the one practiced by Shostak and his SETI Institute colleagues — is eavesdropping on radio signals that an alien civilization might broadcast.Another method is to image distant planets with very large space telescopes capable of detecting enough detail to provide scientists with data about their atmospheres. Big telescopes — such as the James Webb Space Telescope, expected to launch in October 2018 — could allow astronomers to analyze the spectrum of light surrounding a far-off planet for evidence of atmospheric oxygen or methane, both of which are known to sustain life on Earth.

"That's how you find intelligent life," Shostak said.

Alien A.I.?

All of these parameters offer scientists a reasonable range of variables for discovering life — but only as long as that life is "the soft, squishy kind, like us," Shostak said. However, a sophisticated extraterrestrial civilization could theoretically have advanced far beyond that, creating forms of artificial intelligence housed in machinery, which simply don't have the same requirements as organic life.

"Machines live forever, and they can go anywhere — they don't care about oceans and atmospheres," Shostak said.

With that view, many of the factors that are currently thought to be indicators of life on other worlds, such as liquid water and a breathable atmosphere, are rendered irrelevant. As such, researchers would need to identify other signals to pinpoint which planets might harbor aliens, Shostak said.

But Shostak also offered reassurances, telling the Future Con attendees that at least they won't need to worry about scientists or the government concealing the news when alien life finally does appear — the story would be too big for them to hide it for long, he said.

"Will we all start singing 'Kumbaya' and just get along when that happens? I don't think so," Shostak said at Future Con. "But it'll change things. Forever after, you will know — as amazing as you are — that you're not the only miracle, you're not the only kid on the block. And I think that'll be very interesting to learn."

- See more at: https://www.livescience.com/59547-future-con-rethinking-aliens.html#sthash.LMkdsYwo.dpuf


Re: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
Post by Nyx on Jun 21st, 2017, 5:35pm

Why do humans have this strong innate idea in their brains that there can be no one but us?

It seems we have already been programed to reject the idea that we are not alone in the universe.

We live in a matrix we do not control.